Mindfulness & Being Present with Vanessa Bennett + Catherine Law

with all of us. Uh. And I actually remember seeing an Instagram post and I thought it was not necessarily the full truth, but something that I thought was interesting. Um. And it was like an old ancient monk saying that said, if if you're anxious, you're worried about the future. If you're depressed, you're worried about the past. But if you're neither of those, then you are present. You are living

in the now. And I really like that end. As somebody who deals with their own mental health, I don't think that covers the full spectrum of it all. But I read that and I realized that's totally me, you know, as somebody who my therapist has diagnosed me with anticipatory anxiety. UM, I very much so have a very hard time living present,

being present. UM. I can stay focused on a task at hand, but I always have in my mind somewhere this worry of what's coming next, or a kind of like, uh, I forgot I have to do this next, or something that's even kind of the kid in class the last day of school before summer break where I'm like, come on, come on, come on, come on, I need this to happen,

to need this to happen. And I've realized that that's also kind of ailed me in the sense of I don't really get to enjoy what's going on right there in front of me. Since my you know, fifteen year old start of working, you know, I've gotten into meditation. Every once in a while, I downloaded different apps from um Headspace to Calm to all of those different types of apps. I've obviously worked with a therapist. I've done yoga. My girlfriend got me into yoga, and so all of

those things have definitely helped. But I do still think to this day that I have issues staying present and staying focused, enjoying the highs of a certain moment, to its fullest, you know, potential, and also working through the lows, the moments um that I'm that I'm dealing with at

the time. And I started realizing as I was becoming more honest, whether it's through my album, whether it's through talking about you know, therapy, whether it's this podcast, that a lot of people have that issue, that a lot of people are stressed about what's coming next, or are thinking about the past so much, or you know, I have a lot of friends who have a d D and a d h D and have just problems focusing in general. And that's what really got me thinking, if

we're not present mentally, then where are we? No? What's up, y'all? Welcome back to let's get into it. We are talking about just being and no better person to be president than somebody who has pretty much everything that that umbrella covers under the sun. This lady is an associate psychotherapist, a mindfulness coach, a yoga and meditation teacher, and in addition to that, she's the co host of the Cheaper Than Therapy podcast. My first guest Vanessa Bennett. How are you, Vanessa?

I'm great? How are you, Alex? I'm so happy that you're here, and and I'm excited you You pretty much like I said, you cover every topic of mindfulness and being present that there is. So I'm excited to ask you a lot of questions. Oh yeah, I'm excited to answer what I can you. As my other guest, you already know her. This is the crazy thing. You already know her, but you don't know you know her. She is the Let's get into It producer Catherine Law. She's also a comedy writer, dog mom to one of my

favorite just the Cutest pug. Her name is Mimsy. If you listen closely to some episodes, you might even hear her snoring in the background. She's also the co host of the podcast Driving to Disneyland Catherine Law. Katherine, how are you hi. I'm doing great. It's a beautiful day today, so just happy as can be. I am so happy that you're here. You're here for every podcast. I'm just excited that people get to hear you. Um, there's this funny joke that we have. I have to call you

out that in between each segment. As soon as we finish, we call it the Katherine Yea because she shaped you. I mean, we're recording now, so I'm gonna do my best impression of it. This is as soon as we finish, as soon as we take a break. She was like this, yea, she does. She does the a S L movement that is that means applause and uh and and it's amazing. So Catherine has been an incredible and extremely vital part of this podcast, and I'm so excited to have you

as a guest. Oh, I just feel so good about it. I'm just so happy. Well, listen, we're talking about being mindful, being present, and we have some really cool topics. First, Vanessa, you and I are gonna be talking about there's no time like the present. We're gonna take a break. Then we're gonna get to a conversation of me and Catherine

talking about mindfulness and distraction. We're gonna take a break, and then lastly, the three of us are going to have an all out open conversation about next level mindfulness. We have some awesome topics, but before we get into them, I have a question that I ask every single one of my guests, and that question is what are you

doing to improve yourself? This week? Um, We've had answers all over the board, from fitness things, people just giving themselves a break, people trying a new hobby, getting at a new skill. I'll give you both some time to think, and I'll go first. This week I decided that I wanted to help other people as much as I can. UM. For me, by growing up, it's always been a big deal to me, Like my father always said to you know, to serve others, help others, be a helping hand as

much as you possibly can. And with quarantine, I've kind of slowed back on that because helping other people usually means being with other people, and being with other people is a no no for me at this point in my life. UM, So I've actually this week decided, you know what, I can still wear a mask and help other people. I can still help other people in other ways.

And so, for instance, I help my girlfriend move a couch into her apartment this week, um I've gone shopping for groceries for some other people who can't do it. And it's really honestly um for me in my brain, it helps me feel a lot better about life, and and I feel like by doing a good thing, I can hopefully inspire other people to do good things, and and that That's what I've been doing this week to improve my life. Yeah, Catherine, you have an answer for me.

You're also a vet. You hear this every time a nurse answer. I know. I actually like thought to myself last night, I was like, what am I doing to but um? And this actually feeds directly into what we're gonna be talking about today. Um. One thing that I've been doing for myself is giving myself a goal for like what time I want to be done with obligations during the day. And you know, we're going to talk

a bit about distraction and all that good stuff. But for me, knowing what I need to be done is helping me to get started earlier, because what sometimes happens with me is like, Okay, I know I have to do X, Y and Z during the day, and I can tend to like put that off, especially with coronavirus stuff. I'm like, well, I just have to read a couple of articles and then I just have to you know, I just have to educate myself and everything else that's

going on. So the start time gets pushed later and later or later and I finished what I have to get finished. But it means I'm working super late, and then I'm sort of stressed about it all the morning and I don't really ever get that relaxation time in the evening. So I'm giving myself like an end point every day where like this is my goal, and then even if I will pass it by like an half hour or an hour, it's still like relatively what I want to be done. So then I have a relaxed evening. Yeah,

I love that. I love that. All right, you got something for us, Vanessa, I do well. First off, I want to say that I was thinking, Alex when you were sharing yours, that that actually is something that's a great practice um in when we're working on I don't want to use the word treat, but treating depression is actually being in service to others. So it's actually been shown that a way to be present, um and pull yourself out of a depressive space is actually to help

other people, um, who are less fortunate than you. So look at you. I didn't even realize there we go, Hey, maybe that's why I've been happier this right exactly? Um, I think for me, uh, and I'll say it's this week because it's been top of mind. But it is something that I try really hard to keep bringing back up is um asking for what I need? Yeah. So, Uh, you know, one of the things that I've done a lot of my own personal work on and that I

actually teach a bunch of classes around is codependency. And one of the hallmarks of codependency is not being able to speak up and ask for what you need, um let alone actually sometimes be able to know what it is that your needs and wants are. Uh. So I've done a lot of work around it, and I think for me, now I know what my needs and wants are, have gotten to that point, and now it's actually just verbalizing it and speaking up for myself. Wow. I love that.

I love that. What a great way all three of us, What a great way to segue straight into this topic. So Catherine, as you know, we'll see you in a bit. Vanessa's time for us to go one on one, and we're talking about no time like the present. As I mentioned before, psychotherapist, mindfulness coach, you teach yoga, you teach meditation,

So we're just going to dive straight into it. We want to talk about being present and uh, this thing that often happens where our bodies are in one place, but our minds are somewhere completely maybe on the other side of the world. Why is it so hard for people to exist in the present? Well, I think, first and foremost, we tend to overlook the fact that some of this is actually biological. Some of it's actually um

a survival mechanism. A lot of our anxiety, for example, is actually triggered by our brain's way of thinking it needs to keep us safe. So we have what we call in therapy and negativity by us. That's the way that our brain works, And so we tend to be Why are to be looking out for danger at all times? Right? And so you can imagine a million years ago that might have looked like, is there a tiger in the bushes,

It's going to jump out and eat me? Right, But our brains don't evolve that quickly, and so now here we are still scanning our environment for constant threats and constant danger and always being ten steps ahead looking out for this might happen, This could happen, And yet we don't have tigers in the bushes jumping out to eat us anymore. And so a lot of people don't realize that you're working against biology. I don't say that to like,

you know, say it's impossible. I just say that almost rather to give you compassion for the fact that it's hard and it's hard for reason. Okay, okay, So that being said, mindfulness it's a word that you know, you're mindfulness coach. What does that mean in in contrast to this biological kind of battle that we're already battling. What is mindfulness and why is that kind of the term that we've we've coined for being present? Right? So the best definition of mindfulness is um one that John cabots

In It really came up with. He's one of the leaders in the mindfulness field. Uh, And he says mindfulness is being aware of the present moment as what's going on right now at any given moment, and doing it without judgment. So it's not just enough to be aware and present with what's happening now, whether that's physically what's happening around you, whether that's the body sensations, whether that's the emotions, whether that's the thoughts, but it's also doing

it without judgment. Oh okay, Okay. We were talking Catherine and I before, and we did I like to do a bit of research on on our guests that we have. And I saw you recently posted this this quote, dealing with the dropped shoe is less paralyzing apparently than waiting for the shoe to drop, um. And I was thinking of that as you were explaining the biological sense of back in the day, they were worried you had to look over your shoulder because there could be an absolute

destruction of your whole life right behind you. Kind Of when I read it, that's what I kind of picked up on, is like, Yeah, now in today's world, we've worried so much. It's like, oh my gosh, what if I spilled that glass of water? What if I spill that glass of water? And it's often a bigger mess than cleaning up a spilled glass of water itself. Why do you think that is? And and what are your

thoughts on that old thing? Well, and I think that actually speaks to what you were saying earlier about anticipatory anxiety, right. And that quote is actually by Glenn and Doyle from her new book Untamed, which is phenomenal if you haven't

read it. Um. And she talks about how for many of us, we work ourselves so much up, Like you were saying, what the glass of water that might get spilled that if I'm so worried that I'm going to spill this glass of water, I'm never going to actually drink the glass of water right and enjoy how amazingly refreshing that glass of water could actually be, right, because

I'm terrified I'm going to spill it. And so if you think about it in that way, it's like, how many wonderful, amazing, scary, life giving, life affirming opportunities and experiences are we missing out on because we're so terrified of what could possibly happen that we don't even ever

allow ourselves to experience those things. Okay, And I think the thing that's crazy to me is the one connection that I find, at least through all mental health issues, through all mental illnesses, is the lack of being present. You know, like I had said in that quote that said, you know, if if you're depressed, you're often living in the past, if you're anxious, you're often living in the future.

But regardless, if you are dealing with any form of mental health issues, you know, one of the immediate side effects of that is the lack of being present. And that's in all things, that's it. That's not only in like the bad times, that's in the good times. You know. I remember my first panic attack ever. I had at Disney World with my family on a paid vacation with a Disney guide and like we were doing like it was an absolute dream vacation, and I had one of

my worst panic attacks. And I think back on that a lot, especially as we're talking about being present and I was so not there? Why is it hard to stay present? Like? How how is it that hard even in the good times? Why is it? Why is it hard to escape even when you're happy and you're in a place where you should be enjoying life to the fullest. Well, I think that it's actually a little bit of that quote that you read from Glenn and Doyle that I posted.

I think it's like this, When things are bad, we're hoping and wishing they were good. When things are good, we're waiting for the other shoe to drop and for them to be bad. Right, And so it's like we're always in this place of like what if, what if? What if? Um, and we're never actually just able to be in that moment of whatever is going on. Right.

And I think the reality is for most of us, we you know, like I said, we do have a negativity bias that it's it's a neurobiological thing, but part of it is we are so uncomfortable with being uncomfortable, right, that we will do anything that we possibly can to not feel the fields, to not feel the anxiety, to not feel the sadness, the overwhelmed, the anger, all the things that we would say quote unquote or negative emotions, right, And so usually we're trying to push those away and

we're trying to focus on something else. The problem is is that we cannot kind of selective numb or selectively drown out. So what I mean by that is when you think about let's say like alcohol, for example, if I'm drinking alcohol, I can't only numb the bad, I also numb the good. So it's similar in the way that we wire our brains. If I'm wiring my brain to always be I don't want to be in the negative. So I'm just going to pay attention to something else

and not be present with what's going on. It feels yucky. It's gonna also kind of bite you in the ass. On the other side, too, because then you're also not going to be present in the positive as well. It's a muscle. You've got to strengthen it for good and bad. That sucks, I mean, like it's hard. Doesn't that suck? Like you can't just like there's not two off switches. There's like one off switch. You turn it all off

or you turn it all on. And this is like, ah, but that's the that's the idea of being fully human, right, Like, you can't be fully human if you don't get both bad and good, light and dark, right cold and hot, Like you can't. You can't. I want to switch from wearing your psychologists had in your mindfulness coach had. I want to turn it into a little bit more of a human converse station. What got you into this? You know, like what led you here is that? Was it your

own experiences? Was it seeing other people and trying to find a way to help tell me more about your own story? All of the above, really, I mean, you know, for me it was through my own work. So up until it's not that therapy was ever taboo, and my

family we just never really talked about mental health. I mean I definitely kind of grew up in a family and a town that was very like, you know, blue collar, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you know, if you're in a bad place, just get through it kind of thing. And when I moved to New York actually to be a TV producer when I was young, I was in my early twenties, I remember that I was just kind of angry and like piste off and agitated all the time.

And I didn't even actually realize that until a good friend of mine kind of put the mirror up to me and called me out on it. And I wasn't sure why, and so I ended up actually taking her referral going to see her therapist and had this experience where I was ten minutes into meeting this woman for the first time, and she opened my eyes to something that was a relationship baseding that I had struggled with kind of my whole life, and it just melted me

and changed my entire world. And I remember from that moment on just being insatiably curious about my inner workings, like how things you know, develop, childhood stuff like all the things. And I just fell down the rabbit hole. And so through that, I said, oh, I want to do what you do, but I hadn't gotten to that place yet. I went, Oh, I want to teach yoga, and so I got my teacher training and then I was like, oh, I want to do yoga therapy, and so I did that, and then I was like, I'm

gonna take an attrition program. Oh I'm gonna take a mindfulness base kind into therapy. I basically was like collecting, you know, certifications like Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts, your kid, just collecting the badges over and over. And you know, it helped me so much because over those years of taking like collecting those badges, my whole life changed in the sense of I got more present, I got more calm, I became more grateful. I became just happier. And it's

not like happy. I hate when we say this thing of like I want to be happy, as if happy is something that's like tangible on a shelf that I can reach for, right, But I knew that I was happier because I was I was more present in my life. I was more kind of aware of the good I was, you know, So it just it changed my entire being. And then through that I just said, you know what,

I want to give this to other people. I want people to understand that, yes, it's it's tough work to be present constantly and ship nobody's good at it, not even me. Um, It's worth the work because it can alter your entire existence. And so from there I decided, Hey,

I'm going to go back to grad school. And like my thirties, I left a relationship, moved across the country by myself, landed in l A, was going to school full time while working as a producer full time, and I just like did the grind and I made the I made the transition, and so wow, what a story. And I want to I just want to reiterate that one part though, where you gave in or you kind of said all right and you started seeing a therapist

and that breakthrough moment like you had mentioned. I think anybody who's really committed you a therapy is something where you get what you give if you really do commit and give to it. I think all three of us here Um and I can speak for Catherine just because we've had some great conversations already about it. It is so worth it. And I want to be like, we can be the voice today if you need it, if you've been waiting for a sign or or somebody to

tell you go see a therapist. Like I've had moments where like I was like, I don't know about therapy, and then I go to therapy and my therapist just says one thing and it like unlocks the water fountain that is directly behind my eyeballs, and I just like cry my eye Like it's so good and it's so freeing. And I do think that the reason why I'm bringing this up is because it is about being present and in my ability because I've only recently started seeing a therapist.

Being able to openly speak to somebody and know that your secrets are safe with them and you can say what you feel and tell them everything. It just makes it more possible to be present and to be there. Um, So thank you for sharing your story. I love that I have a I have an the thought that I've had in my head, which was I don't know if you've ever heard that quote, like thoughts think themselves, like they just come into your brain. How do you feel

about that quote? You believe that is that true? Is it partially true? Partially true? It's partially true in the sense that like that's what our brains are there for, right, Like they're meant to think um. And so that's partially why when I work with people and they do the whole like, you know, I'm a I can't meditate, I'm a bad meditator. I can't clear my mind. And I'm like, well,

that's not possible. So anybody that's telling you that meditation is you need to clear your mind doesn't actually understand meditation um. And So really what meditation is, really what mindfulness is, is just being aware of what comes up without attaching yourself to it right without without again judgment.

Judgment can mean putting a positive or a negative label on something right, and so it's all about just seeing the thoughts come up and then allowing them to pass by without getting swept away in the story of them. Your thoughts are gonna think, your brain is gonna think, they're gonna pop up. You can't stop that. And I love that because when I if you download any of the meditation naps, the first thing that they teach you, it's like it's like watching cars on a freeway and

you like let them common, you let them go. That being said, thoughts can often then lead to feelings, and a lot of people I think that there's like a pretty common concept of like control your feelings. You have control of your feelings, or you have control of your thoughts. Where do you stand in that giant mix? Yeah, well, I mean it is true that thoughts create feelings and

then feelings create thoughts. So it actually is a cycle, right, And so once we get ourselves into this kind of loop, you can actually picture the circle of it just continuing to go. It's really hard to get out, right, So there is a little bit of in the mindfulness practice. It is the better you get, the stronger that muscle gets, that you being able to watch what's coming up, whether it's a thought or a feeling or a sensation in the body and kind of allowing it to pass through

without attaching to it. Right, The stronger you make that muscle, the easier it actually becomes for you when you do

get swept up, because you will we all do. Rather than being like an hour into like a session of like obsessing about something and all of a sudden being like, holy sh it, it's been an hour, you might do it twenty minutes into obsessing about something, or five minutes in or maybe eventually it's like in the moment you're like, no, I'm not I'm not following that path, and you actually start to be able to in a in a sense, you know, kind of control your thoughts just because you're

not allowing them to kind of take you for a ride. So it's more like it's more like a dog hurting cattle than it is like hurting kittens. Something like, yes, this is perfect. Um, So another thing I'm gonna go because we did our research, I actually have you saying that you can't grow and evolve if you can't notice and be aware. I think that that is something that definitely can debilitate your growth as a human if you are stuck and unable to be present. Um, And that's

the first step, which is mindfulness. Why is it that being present is so integral to personal growth? I mean, what I would say to that is, if I can't be present with what's coming up for me. Okay, so let's say it's anxiety. If I can't be truly present to the anxiety, and I can't be truly present to, um, the sensations that the anxiety creates in my body and the thoughts that kind of then spring up from that

feeling of anxiety. If I'm not able to sit back and watch what's going on and kind of dissect it in a way, I won't ever really be able to get to the bottom of what's creating and causing the anxiety. Right, So I'm always just going to be again along for the ride. You know. Part of this is I don't like to use the word control, right, but it is part of it. Like you do have to be able to understand what's underneath it, and then what's underneath that,

and then what's underneath that. Right, So it's like backing yourself into every layer. Um, And if I don't know what this first layer is and I'm not present with that first layer, how the heck am I going to get to the layer underneath or the lay underneath that. Oh wow, that makes so much sense. And I've never even heard anybody explain it like that, but it makes so much sense. I'm going to assume that you have some incredible tips and tricks and advice for people to

get started. But I'm gonna make the listener wait, you gotta wait until we come back. We're gonna be back. We're gonna take a break, and at the very end of this, we're gonna have some advice from all three of us, but most importantly from Vanessa Bennett. Vanessa, thank you so much for all of your advice for telling your story. We're gonna be right back, and when I get back, I'll be talking with Catherine about mindfulness and distraction. Don't go anywhere. All right, we are back. This is

Let's Get into It. I'm alex Iono and we just had a great conversation Vanessa Bennett and I about what it means to be mindful and why it's important to be mindful. And now I have one of my very very good friends and the producer of Let's Get into It, Catherine Law here, and we're gonna be talking about mindfulness and distraction. But how are you, Katherine. I'm so good. I'm less distracted today. I've had my coffee, I'm on it, I'm in it. It's great. So when I love that.

But when we talk about what episodes I wanted to do, you know, we had talked about, okay, the importance of being mindful. One that's about being present, and at first I kind of came from my view, which was having anxiety or having depression and dealing with it, but a

part of that is not being present. It actually kind of unfolded, and we talked about other people who have other ailments that that lead to not being able to be present, including a d h D. And I was I asked you as like, do we know anybody who has a d h D. And I was like, and you, I mean, it's it's courageous the fact that you wanted to come out here and and talk. I thought it

was so important to have that because it's true. I really do feel like the common denominator of the through line through all mental illnesses and mental health issues is that everybody is dealing with something that makes it so that they have a harder time being present. Can you tell us a little bit about your you know, how you realized or how you came to the conclusion or

were diagnosed with a d h D. Well. I sort of like in high school, I would say, and as a kid sort of like had an inkling that that was something that was going on with me because my dad had been diagnosed, my little brother had been diagnosed as well, and just noticed like a lot of the same things going on with myself. Um distract ability and a lot of jumping from thought to thought, and as I got older, I really wasn't diagnosed until I was

an adult. And one of the things that got me really interested in figuring out all the ways that this affected me was a Mastermind group that I was in back in my days of being a marketer UM. I was in a group with a lot of other super successful entrepreneurs. In that group of these like ultra successful people who are like all like geeks, breaks and weirdos, like a bunch of like very quirky personalities like them were like, oh yeah, I was diagnosed too. Oh yeah,

I was diagnosed too. And so it sort of became like a celebratory thing in this group where it's like I finally got my diagnosis and already would be like, yeay, it's amazing, and so there, you know, there are a lot of good things and we'll talk a little bit about this too, but there are so many good things about it as well. It you have these moments of creativity and you get to be spontaneous and all kinds

of good things like that. But that was sort of what led me to making it official, was being in this group where it was like, hey, we've all got a d h D. But we're like having a great time and you know, creative business people and whatever. So yeah, no, I mean I love that, and I think that's something

that's in the biggest picture. A big goal of mine for this podcast is to help but continue normalizing mental health issues and even to the point, like you said, like, let's normalize it so much so that we celebrate the fact that we finally figured out what's going on with us. You know. It's like it's like if if your car was broken, you couldn't figure out what it was and you finally realized there's a nail in the tire. It sucks that there's a nail in the tire, but like

you're like, yeah, we can finally fix it. We know

exactly how to fix it, exactly what to do. And like you had mentioned, there are still benefits Like there I saw a post on Instagram that was about like all of the positive things about having depression, and it was talking about you have a larger space to hold empathy and sympathy for others, and you can relate to people and you feel things a little bit more, and there are benefits to these things, especially once you can handle them, then it's truly it can get to a

point where it's only benefits. Like you are, it's a superpower. I don't know how else to say it, Like you have the ability to feel things in ways that others can't, And there's so many benefits having a d h D. What are the benefits that you see, Like you had mentioned spurts of of creativity or sponsor name. Yeah, I mean for me, I think I joke with my husband all the time that like he would be so bored in life if he wasn't married to me with a d h D because I'm spontaneous. Like the other day.

The other day, I was like, can we just get like pizza and ice cream for dinner? And he was like, Okay, we can, And so we like drove to our favorite pizza place. It's like thirty minutes away, but we drove to Pizzaan in West Hollywood, picked up like the most delicious pizza of all time, came back looped around by Jenny's ice Cream here and in Yeah, and I had pizza and ice But it's like, you know, we had some boring coronavirus pandemic night planned, and I was just like,

let's make an adventure happen right now exactly. And I love that so much. I mean, I feel like it really is you have the you have the option, the opportunity to reach a level of instant spontane that instant creativity, that spark of like really like when people say, like the spark of inspiration, that's what it sounds like, and

so um. There are definitely benefits of it, and I think that that it is something that we continue to normalize, and not only normalize, continue to celebrate going to see a doctor saying these are what's going on. Getting that solution as soon as my as soon as my therapist told me, hey, you have an anticipatory anxiety, I was like like I was literally like got it. I'm glad,

like I know what's going on. Like it just made it easier for me to when I'm feeling something, when I'm feeling the bad part of it, like I getting just or I have an anxiety attack, at least know exactly what it is. I go, hey, this is anticipatory anxiety. I'm gonna knock it out right now. These are my tricks that I was told to do, and then you get it done and then you celebrate, like you really

treat yourself to it. Yeah, And my dad always says you can't manage what you don't measure, and I feel like, I know, I know it's Mr Law. Mr Law. He's actually like a brilliant human um, but he always says you can't manage what you don't measure, and I feel like that's so much what we're talking about right now. It's like when you put a label on it. You know, it's not like you are like, oh cool, I have eight HD I'm gonna figure out how to deal with

this and it's all great. No, you learn tools, and you have this process where you continually try to enact those tools and you get better with practice. It doesn't just happen overnight. But you know, like Vanessa was saying, with like, maybe you cut that time down from an hour to twenty minutes down to five minutes when you can react and and put your tools into place to keep it going on the right path. So in your own personal experience, since we are we, I do want

to address the full realm of AD. Yeah, do you feel like you're able to be present since your mind is constantly racing around since your mind is shifting and it can change on it and you know, switch on the dime. Um, I would say yes and no, and this is why I'm going to say both of those.

On the one hand, I feel like I'm super present a lot of the time because my brain is wherever my brain is right So even if my brain is skipping around, I'm like, okay, now, I'm like supert with this other, like part of the conversation I'm having, or

this new topic that I'm bringing up. Like that's a lot of what happens is like let's switch topics now, But I'm following my own track and so I'm like super present with wherever I am right then, one thing that happens is that I can't like stay on that track for as long as I might like. So, for example, where that becomes problematic is like if I'm listening to instructions like I used to do in normal times, I used to do a lot of improv and if I was taking a class, I'd be super into it, so

much fun, It's all great. The second that the instructor would start explaining a drill or an exercise that we're going to do, my brain would be somewhere else, right, so my brain and it wasn't like it's not a choice. It was just like the second those instructions start happening, my my brain is gone. It's out the window until the moment where they're like, okay, let's start the exercise

and I have no idea what we're doing. And so for a long time, my coping mechanism was, Okay, you just aren't in the first pair of people out because you need to see what they're doing so you can try and figure out what you're supposed to be doing right now. And one of the tools I've learned to implement is just asking for what I need, just saying like, okay, can you like just repeat that in like two seconds?

You know what I mean? Like, can you just give us like a one sentence version of what that is um or just like condense it, or just even verifying and clarifying and saying, okay, so we're doing X, Y, and Z. Now if I've sort of picked it up and and and it helps, and it helps a couple of other ways that it affects me is I'll have like little piles of things everywhere I'm I'm one of my things in quarantine as I'm trying to be more tidy, so that's been a little bit better, but I leave

little piles of things everywhere, and it also manifests itself in like being fifteen minutes late anywhere I'm going. I really have a difficult time knowing how long things take. But you know, one of the other things, and this is sort of like a blessing and a curse that comes for me that comes along with my a d h D is hyper focus. So one thing that can happen is like, yes, you're hanging around, and it can

be really hard to be present. But also like hyper focus is something that a lot of people with a d h D have as well, So it's like my brain goes in there and it can be like two three hours later and I have no idea how much time has gone by. It's difficult to get myself to the point where I start a project. But once I'm in the project, I mean like someone can be talking to me, other things can be going on around me, but I I'm I'm somewhere else, like I'm hyper hyper

hyper focused. So it's it's really interesting to try and manage like getting into like forcing yourself to get into hyper focus when you have to get something done. Um. But then like it's also a really good tool for the most part to be able to get things done when you when you do crossover in a hyper focus. So, yeah, I want to talk. I want to talk little bit about that in the sense of how that that little

piles everywhere. And every time you said little piles everywhere, I just thought of little fires everywhere the show, and I just thought of like a whole parody of that exact thing. But it's just about and it's just it's just little piles everywhere. But the thing is they say that a d h D and anxiety actually go hand in hand, and when you're not on the nice side, when you're not on the hyper focus side or the positive side or the I'm so glad I got I

figured out what's going on side. I think that you can build more thoughts and feelings of anxiety when you let the d h D kind of control you instead of you controlling that. Can you talk a little bit

about that? Yeah, I mean for me, the anxiety happens with its cyclical thinking is a huge one for me, it's a sort of thing where like I can be going throughout my day and if there's anything that I'm like worried about, my brain will be like, hey, remember this thing you should be worried about, and it's it's terrible, especially if it's like one of those things that feels like a gut punch, you know, you just like get that awful feeling in your stomach. And so for that specifically,

one tool that works for me. It doesn't work for everybody, but it works for me is to like kind of like we talked about earlier, noticing the thought and letting it pass by. Um. But for me, one thing that helps is I noticed the thought. Okay, that's not something that I can do anything about right now. Thank the thought for coming. Saying like, thank you for being here. I understand you're just trying to prepare me for whatever.

Thing like if it's a meaning, if it's whatever, Um, a discussion you have to have with a friend like thank you for being here, thank you for stopping by. I don't need you right now, so I'm gonna put you in a little box. And I like, this is so goofy, But I literally envisioned myself like putting that thought into a box, closing the lid on the box, making the box tiny, and putting it on a shelf.

So I have to do it, usually several times times, but it is one of those things that helps me sort of get rid of those cyclical thoughts or at least less in their effect, and be like cool, I can't help this situation right now, so I'm just gonna put it on a shelf until the time comes that I actually can deal with it. No, I love that, And again, like, we're going to save all of our tips and tricks, like all of our special ones, because I have a bunch, and I know that Vanessa has

a bunch, and I know you have a bunch. We're gonna save that for the next segment. But before we take a break, um, I want you to address something specifically, just because you've mentioned it, that sometimes your brain can just fly boom boom boom a thousand miles per hour. You have a couple of tips and tricks that you regularly practice. What do you do when none of them work? When it's just I have done everything, I've tried meditation, I've tried my little box thing. When it's just nothing

is working, What's what's your go to? Um? You can hear Mimsy parking in the background, by the way, she just got back from the vet. Um. Yeah, but uh, when nothing is working, especially with if I'm anxious about something or whatever, it's a little bit like, let's do a hard restart on this brain right now. One of the people from my my Mastermind group had said about

specifically a d h D symptoms. He was like, you know, you're going to find that you can spend all day worrying about the thing that has to happen, or worrying about the thing, whatever the thing is. You finally get the thing done at the last minute, or you deal with the thing at the last minute and you're actually are going to do your best work at the last minute because that's how your brain works. But until that time, you can either spend all day worrying about the thing,

not dealing with the problem, whatever it may be. You might as well instead of spending all day blustering about it and fretting about it and getting anxiety about it, like, go take a nap, go do something else, go read a book for a while. Basically, go do a hard reason you're not going to do it until later. You're not going to deal with it until later anyway, and you're also going to do your best work when you

deal with it later. So just go do something else and like take a load off and like live your life. So yeah, that's that's what a nap helps. I love that. A nice, a nice little nap never does you wrong. Listen, guys, we're gonna be right back. When we get back. We got way more tips. We're talking about next level mindfulness. Don't go anywhere, yo, what's up. It's alex Iono and I am here with Vanessa Bennett and Catherine Law and we're talking about next level mindfulness. I want to start

off with this statistic that I found. According to a two thousand eight study, seventy eight percent of adults with a d h D noticed a reduction in symptoms when they practice mindfulness meditation and noticed a significant reduction in symptoms. Vanessa, how does that like track with what you've seen in your own clients when they start practicing mindfulness? Yes, I mean a thousand percent. Yes, So mindfulness is one of those things where I would say, like ten years ago,

it kind of became like cool buzzword. Right, And UM, what I've been very grateful to see is that there have been a ton of studies in the psychology world of the benefits of kind of layering mindfulness on top of pretty much any other modality that you work with. UM. And and actually the research based like the backing that shows just how efficient it can be, UM and how it can actually level up anything that you're already doing. So we were saying it earlier actually when you were

talking to Catherine. It's like it is one of those things that by not being present, you're exacerbating probably almost anything else going on for you. Right, So if we can get present even in trauma work, like not to totally throw that curveball in there, but you would think like, oh, this horrible thing happened. Right, Let's say I was like, I'm a veteran, I don't want to think about it, I don't want to be there. Well, mindfulness work actually

is part of working through that traumatic experience, right. So, UM, you can see how being present and working with whatever comes up and allowing your body, by the way your body, your mind, whatever, to digest the thing that's coming up. Right, That's why it's so important, and that's why it does have two huge benefits. So with a d D, a d h D as well. Actually, I think Katherine said up about it being going hand in hand with anxiety.

And so the way that I've actually seen and I've been trained, so my backgrounds in depth psychology, which is a little bit more based in the unconscious world, and what the way that we look at things like a d h D depression, anxiety, A lot of these are manifestations of something that's going on at more of a soul level. Right, So a d h D is actually a symptom of it's a byproduct of something else that's

going on. Right. It's your body's where or your brain's way of again making a defense mechanism, right in order to help you get out of what ever is happening with you. Uh. And So for me, I would look at a d h D and I would say, okay, working mindfully right, let's get in, Let's figure out what's going on underneath it. Let's figure out why your brain is jumping from thought to thought to thought to thought, Like why does it not want to stay with this thought? That?

That makes me think a lot about it makes me think a lot about the concept of controlling your mental health so that your mental health does not control you, you know what I mean. I have this issue, and I think a lot of people have this issue. If not,

then I'm just weird. But I have this issue where I can very often miss interpret staying focused and being present with doing something that that helps me relax or or gather myself, you know, reading a book or playing even a video game or watching a TV show, um, to relax, especially in a time like this. Uh. And and that kind of can be a distraction for me in a good way. Um, but I know that there's also distractions in a bad way and it can kind of knock you off the path more of diversions versus

like good and healthy distractions. Where's the line? And this is open for for anybody to answer. What's the line? How can you have too much of a distraction? Can you? Can you kind of baby yourself a little bit too much and then you now your back off of being you know, being mindful, being present. What do you guys think For me? I sort of I get a little bit of a guilt complex if I'm like playing a video game or like a little stupid game on my phone. I love Two Dots. That's sort of, oh my gosh,

this checkers fun. But it's great, and like sometimes they have these little puzzles where you like fine things. It's ridiculous. It's a dying game. Like there's literally like you can't shut the game down. There's one person playing and they live in low it's me. Yeah, they keep it open just for me. But I love Two Dots. I just like zen out and I listened to the like chill music and like the little bleeps and bloops For me.

One of the things I liked about it in the very beginning was that like you could only play it for like ten minutes and then you would run out of lives. Well now they've sort of gotten around that because they realized they need to make money and have

people keep playing their game. For me, it's like I have a little guilt around it sometimes and then I'm like, oh no, I need to just like have a zen moment and like just think about nothing and just like do this stupid little thing that sort of relaxes me for a little bit what I'm trying to stop doing and what I'm working to like for me, the line is Okay, I'm walking my dog. I leave the apartment, I go to wait for the elevator, and what am

I in the elevator for like ten seconds? Sometimes I'll find myself like opening that app or like opening Instagram or something, and I'm like, no, I don't need to just like distract myself for the ten seconds that it takes the elevator to go down to floor, you know whatever. So yeah, for me, that's the line, is am I using this as an escape or as something to change my mood? Because that's something that I find that I like, I'm like a little annoyed or something. I'll like turn

it like open Instagram. I'm like okay, then I'm like thinking about something else. That for me is the line. Am I using this as like an escape from an emotion I'm feeling or just I need a shell for a minute? For a minute? Is fine? I like that? Yeah, I mean I've I've got a lot of thoughts I think swirling. But I think what you said Otherine is is pretty on point as far as like your line is being able to again, this takes awareness, right, Like

what am I using it for? And you need to be able to be honest with yourself, right, Like if we're not going to be honest with ourselves and who is right? So it's like, if you know you're doing it to escape something, here's the thing. If you know that, and you can be honest about it, and you can say, I still want to do it for ten minutes because I don't want to feel this thing power to you do the thing right, and then in time minutes think about the thing as long as you're really being honest

with what the reason is. Right, And I think, Alex, you actually said it earlier, this idea of something being your superpower. I always say that any of this stuff can be our superpower or kryptonite. It just depends on how you use it, right, Like what is that line?

Is it controlling you or you controlling it? So to your point, Gathered, if you find yourself just automatically opening your phone, right to use scrolling as an apple because it's a great one that we all use nowadays, um without being mindful of the fact that you just whipped your phone out for no reason, you might want to stop and think about what you're doing right and and self care. To your point, Alex, it's like, look, sometimes sitting on the couch and like zoning out to TV.

That can actually be self care, right, Sometimes we do just need to like turn it off, veg out, space out. Whatever. Would I call that being present? No, A thousand percent no, But what I still call it? Okay self care sometimes? Sure, Again, as long as it's not like controlling you, right, as long as you're still carving out the time to be present with what's going on, as long as you're being honest with yourself. You know, one of the things I

tell clients actually is give it to yourself as a reward. So, especially with procrastination writer a D d UM, when I've worked the clients in the past, I'll say, set a timer on your phone for when you need to do homework or study or whatever it is. For let's say

twenty or thirty minutes. When that timer goes off, no matter where you are in the process ding, you get five minutes or ten minutes of a reward, scrolling Instagram, getting up to get a snack, cleaning because for some people that's a good like anxiety burner, right, whatever it is. And then dang, when that five minutes is over, go back to doing what you gotta get done right. So sometimes these little things like zoning out can actually be a reward system for our brain too. I really like that.

Now I want to shift it just a very little bit. We've spent this last hour talking about the importance of being present. We're also in the middle of a year that I think we all like to forget about and move on from as quickly as possible. Why should we be present right now? Mm hmm. Well, the first thing that came up for me is I don't want to miss it? Actually, how can we evolve into something better if we're not fully aware of the darkness of that

yucky stuff, of that yucky side. Right. So in my world we call this the opposite of that spiritual bypassing m hm. So it's this idea that like positive vibes only I only like positive people in my life. I don't you know really what that is. It's like you can't I don't know if you guys saw. But the whole time that Va saying that she had just the most valley girl like l a blogger. That's why positive

vibes only face. I just like channel my inner seventies, you know, hippie check, right, there um and and you know, while it's great to surround yourself with positive people and all the things, sometimes it is a way to bypass the work. It's a way to bypass the real real, which is like, actually every one of us has implicit bias. Actually this country was founded on racism. Actually, we all

have bouts with depression, we all have negative thinking. We all whatever the thing is right, and you can't get away from that. And if you try to ignore it, like you're gonna miss it, right, And so, how do you learn your lessons? How do you integrate what you've learned if you just look away and skip over it and pretend like it's not there. I actually think there's

so much value in being president with the yucky stuff. Wow, If that doesn't really get you to be like, yeah, I should start being present no matter what, then then I don't know what else we can say. I want to finally switch to this last I know everybody's been waiting. They want to know how to become more present. I want to start with my tip. I have one tip and I just do it all the time. I got it from my therapist and I share with everybody that

I know. Um, but My tip to being present is every time I start thinking or catch myself not being president or worrying about something, I ask myself this question, Am I going to do something about it right now? Are you going to do something about like I really just has It's a real just kind of like like you said, Katherine, you just have those real questions you ask yourself and I just go, am I going to do something about it right now? And if my answer

is yes, then I go, Okay, do it. And if my answer is no, then I go then stop then stop thinking about it, dealing with it later. And you kind of mentioned it, Katherine, you would say, hey, this is when it needs to be done, and you kind of put that schedule it together. I think that that's something that I do, UM and it really does help me be more present because I might be stressed about something that I have to do tomorrow or stressed about

a podcast recording. I asked myself that question, and based off of the answer, I either move on from that thought and I try and focus or really enjoy whatever I'm doing right now UM or I or I do something about the thing that I'm worried about at the given moment. Katherine, you have any any tips? Two ones come to mind, and sort of to piggyback off of yours. Alex, like, there was one moment at the very beginning of the pandemic, and this is like before we were even wearing masks.

It was like it was just walking Mimsie. I was depressed. It was like, what the hell is going on? I miss going to the office, I miss these you know, I miss my friends. I miss like just like bummed, right, hardcore bummed. And then I just had this moment of like, hold on a second, what's happening right now? I'm walking my dog, who I'm obsessed with. I am listening to a podcast. You know, this was part of like not being president was like distracted from what I was listening to,

thinking of how sad I was. I'm walking my dog, listening to a podcast, and there's like a beautiful sunset happening. I'm literally doing all of my favorite things. Maybe it's okay right now, even if it sucks generally, maybe it's okay right now. So I guess like that tip is just being present, which is just do it, do it, just do it. Just the other the other tip I have Vanessa to go back to what you were saying about setting timers. That is something that I do of obsessively.

Anytime an alarm goes off, my husband is like arbitrary alarm, because I set alarms for myself all day long. I gotta take the roast stud of the oven. I gotta do X, Y or Z, because I know I might get into that hyper focus or I might just like put water on the stove and then I forgot about it.

So I always set an alarm. I always said, a timer, and something that actually helps me a lot with getting that, like a chunk of work done, or a chunk of something productive done, whether it's cleaning or working or whatever. There's an app called Forest. I think it's just called Forest. It's adorable. You go on there. You can set how long you want to set your time or for whether it's twenty five minutes, ninety minutes, whatever, and then it

grows a little tree while you're being productive. You can't look at your phone or you kill the tree, which is a little bleak. I was like, and it only it kills that tree and every tree in the world. No, But then the nice thing is they actually go like like plant trees for you if you like earn enough coins like I r L plant trees in the world, so, which is great. And I have to like set my timer for longer than like the twenty five minutes because it takes me while. It's like get into that focus,

and when I do, I need to keep it. So I do like a ninety minute often where I'll just be like okay, and then the bell rings and I get to go do something else for a while. I love that. I love that, Vanessa, You're obviously the expert here, So give us your tips. Take us home with some really fired Okay, Okay, I've got a couple of ones that are that are doable, right. So one of them, um this idea you know, you said Alex about like I'm kind of thinking about something I have to do tomorrow.

Like I know a lot of people, It's like I can't get to sleep, I'm tossing and turning. I'm stressed out about this thing. Um. So, one of the tips that I have found helpful for myself and then I actually use with clients a lot is scheduling worry time. So when you find yourself being kind of overwhelmed by worry, maybe you're you know, tossing and turning at night. Whatever, get out of bed. If let's say it's happening before bed,

get out of bed. Set five minutes on your timer, pull out your journal or a piece of paper, and talk to yourself literally, say to yourself, okay, brain, you've got five minutes to get it all out right. We can't do anything about it right now, but I'm gonna let you have your moment right. Set the timer and give yourself five minutes and just write down all the things that are swirling and bouncing and keeping you awake. When that tim or goes off, it's you say to

yourself again, Okay, you've had your five minutes. We'll worry about this tomorrow. The list is here, it's all out of my brain. Now it's time to sleep. And so there's this idea of scheduling worry time, and it could be really helpful when you find yourself overwhelmed with worry.

So that's awesome. I love that. Okay, and you said five minutes, right, you said five, Okay, yeah, don't go over five, because I'm sure we could probably schedule, like I'm going to schedule three hours over worry time, come with me. Gutam um um. So the other one is when you're feeling really overwhelmed, so especially people who deal with like massive anxiety, where you find yourself, you know, the typical the heart palpitations, Oh god, I'm sweating. You know,

my breath is really short and shallow. We do this thing called five senses. So when you catch yourself, do the thing. And Alex is nodding, So I'm sure you've probably heard this from your therapist. Run through your senses, right, So wherever you are, whenever you are look around, find something site that you can focus on, and I mean focus.

So like for me, I'm looking at these like sheer white blinds, and I'm noticing the light actually coming through the blinds, and I'm noticing that there's a little bit of texture and there's like a little piece of fuzz on it. Like literally focus all of your site on this thing, right, and then do the same thing with all of your different senses, so your ears pick up something, really focusing on it, you know, smell, taste, all the things, touch, maybe I can feel my shirt on my skin, and

really hone in and pay attention to it. It really helps you to just take yourself out of whatever it is, that feeling of hyper anxiety, hyper arousal, bring yourself back into your body in the present moment. And what it really does is it's you're actually resetting your nervous system. So you're telling your nervous system in that moment, there's no tiger, We're good, right, we're in this moment, We're in our body. Things are fine, and you can actually

feel yourself regulate. So that's a really good any other one, I have one more good one. So if you're somebody who's new to mindfulness of meditation, right, I always say it doesn't need to look like you sitting in lotus position in you know, like a yogi for an hour a day. Ideally, if you can do it, great, but that's not what it has to look like. Um. A yoga teacher or a mindfulness teacher once said to me, next time you're in the shower, check and see if

you're in the shower. So yeah, so what he what we we we learned. One of the things that we trained on is anything you're doing can be a practice of meditation or mindfulness if you're mindful while you're doing it. Right, So I always say, take something that you do every single day. So hopefully all of us brush our teeth every single morning, right, so take toothbrushing. Make that your meditation every day. So while you're brushing your teeth, right, So,

actually picture yourself in your mind taking the toothpaste. You open it. You can smell the kind of peppermint. Right, you can see the ridges on the toothbrush. You actually squirt it out onto the toothbrush, You put it in your mouth. You're feeling the bristles on your gums. You're tasting the mintainus. You might feel the foaming. Right. Now, here's the thing your mind's gonna wander. Of course it is, right, So all of a sudden, you're in like a meeting

or your your podcast, the guess all the things. Oh ship, my brain's gone back to the minty flavor, back to the feeling of the thing on the gums. Right, and use that as the way to continually bring your mind over and over again back to the thing that you're doing. Just taken everyday thing that you know you're gonna do anyway, turn that into your mouth. I'm literally going to do that with brushing my teeth solely because I this is I want to be clear, I brush my teeth every morning,

every night. But that being said, I hate it. I don't know why I hate brushing my teeth. I think it's like I'm just I wanted to be over as fast as I started, Like I just when I make sure my mouth is cleaned. You know what I mean is I don't like it. This is that's actually a great tip. I mean, obviously it's a great tip for being mindful, but it's also probably a great tip so

that I stopped hating brushing my teeth so much. But those are I mean, those are just like what great tips and I want to I want to really hammer that in, like use these tips, and honestly, these tips aren't working. I also think that all three of us can full on be like a cheering section for you to like if you want to go and get help, or if you feel like you should get help, please go and get help, Like go and figure out what

it is because it's cool. Like I'm like, it's in a weird way, like I like being like, yeah, I got anticipatory anxiety. It's kind of like there's another part of me, Like I said, hey, guys, I just got a new pair of shoes and I got anticipatory anxiety. It's cool, don't don't. I really want to This is it's been it's been a while since we've done an episode that's solely about mental health. Um, and that's why I think I've just been filled up with this thought

of like, if you need help, go get help. Like it's cool to get help, Like that's the new thing. Like I know, you know, for the for the state of our country, for the state of humanity in general, we gotta keep normalizing it. So I really implore you to try these tips out. If these tips don't help what's going on, go and go and catch go and catch go and catch your local therapist, you know, and

see you see if they can help out. But Vanessa Catherine think you both honestly so much for coming through. I love doing episodes about mental health, and Vanessa, hopefully you can come and be another guest for other mental health issues because you you really crushed it. Right now is a section that I like to call uh not so shameless promo, and it's basically where you just get to plug yourself, give yourself some give yourself some clout

right here. So, Katherine, since you are you're very used to hearing what's not so shameless promo sounds like, so why don't you take it away? Yes? Well, you can follow me on Instagram at cath Elizabeth. You can of course follow Mimsy on her Instagram. She is far more popular than I. But she's at mimsy Merbles like Marbles with an E or if you're a Parks and Wreck fan, she's actually named for dairy Merble's the NPR host on

Parks and Wreck mimsy Merbles. Or you can check out we just started season two of my podcast Driving to Disneyland, so check that out. It's fantastic and we have a very fun Instagram full of colorful Disney items. I love it all right, Vanessa take it away? Um? Yeah, So you can follow me on Instagram as well. It's Vanessa S. Bennett H B E N N E T T. People will never seem to know how to spell that one. Um. And you can also hear my podcast as well. I

do it with my dear soul sister Denay. It's called Cheaper than Therapy, um, and really it's it's kind of like the depth the side of the mental health world. Right, Like, we want to get in we want to destigmatize what goes on behind the closed doors of the therapy room, and so we bring on guests and have kind of like these conversations, right like, let's just be real about what it is that we're all going through. And so, yeah, you can check me out there. I love it. I

fully expect to be a guest on cheaper than therapy. Now, don't worry. Don't worry, it's already our mind is already. You know, you can always find me at alex IONO everywhere A I O. N Oh. It's the beauty of having a weird last name. Uh. And I want to thank you so much for listening today. If you have the time, please rate our podcast and subscribe. That is how we can grow, share it with the brand you

already know. And I love you so much. Thank you for listening to another episode of Let's Get Into It, and we'll see you next time. We really want you to get the help you need, so if you need help, please seek independent advice from a competent healthcare or mental health professional. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast and do not represent the opinions of

iHeartMedia or its employees. This podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, counseling, or therapy. Listening to the podcast does not established doctor patient relationship with hosts or guests of alex IONO, Let's Get Into It or I heart Media. No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on this podcast. Well, if that's a doozy