Investing in art

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Hi, and welcome to the AJ Bell Money Matters podcast. I'm Laura. And I'm Danny, and we are all about helping you feel good about your finances. From pensions and investments to mortgages and how to ask for a pay rise, this pod has tackled them all and hopefully given you a bit of insight and a bit of jargon free clarity about what can sometimes feel like quite a complicated and intimidating part of life.

And we're hoping that there'll be quite a few new listeners to this podcast because we had a great time at the Affordable Art Fair in Hampstead. It was brilliant to talk to so many people and Were you tempted to buy anything, Laura? So many things. I mean there's such good variety of artwork there, I felt like, from price point to also just such an eclectic mix of different styles.

genuinely was something for everyone and I know some people on the team purchased a number of items. I managed to not purchase anything, but that's not because I didn't want to, but it's because the things that I wanted Purchase were Um yeah, way out of my budget, I'm afraid. Even on a layaway plan, I think my husband would have, yeah, balked if I'd have come back and said, Darling, I've spent eight thousand on a painting. Whew.

It was a really good event though across the across four days in Hampstead. Um we actually offered free tickets to the event to our existing newsletter subscribers. So if you got those tickets and went along, we hope you enjoyed it and maybe popped up to say hi. We definitely had some subscribers, some podcast listeners come and say hello, which was lovely to meet you guys. Uh and we also had a competition for everyone that was there to come and

maybe win a five hundred pound voucher that they can use at one of the next art events. I know certainly the next one is in the autumn in Battersea and In our next newsletter, we will let you know who won. And if it was you, if you were lucky, we will send you an email. And as promised, this episode has a great chat with Jennifer Connor, who works at the Affordable Art Fair. She's their UK regional manager and director.

Now she talks about art as an investment, which is a great fusion with what we talk about here at Money Matters, and of course as a way to enjoy the money that you've worked hard to build up. Because a huge part of investing is obviously about building up your personal wealth. so that you can afford to enjoy doing the things that you want to do or buying the things that you love. And I know you particularly are less into art and more into holiday.

The art of a holiday. Maybe that could be the combination.'Cause I have that nailed.'Cause for a while before I had kids, I combined the two and when I would go abroad, we'd usually end up in some kind of um antique place or we'd see an artist and I have lots of art on my wall from different places that I've visited so as well as photographs. I've got that sort of reminder, which is just a really nice thing, but can't do it now.

I love that though. Like art as uh as serving as memories and also kind of reminding you of those family holidays. So I think that is good. But I think that thing about thinking about why you're investing, why you're saving your money and what the end goal is is so motivational when we think about investing. So if you think about

Saving for your pension, that in itself sounds quite boring. But if you think about saving for multiple holidays in your retirement, suddenly I'm much more in Here is what I am saving my pension up for,'cause I've got my eye on tax free cash which will be about 57 and I want to do an extension to the house and I'm looking at that thinking yes that orangery will be mine and it is all about those long-term goals right yeah definitely

Now, do stay tuned to hear our chat with Jennifer. For those of us who don't know us and are listening for the first time, Laura and I are part of a wider Money Matters team made up primarily of women with content. targeted at women. though, male listeners are most welcome. If you haven't had a chance to look around our website, which is a JBellmoneymatters dot co.uk,

We hope that you will take a look. Because as Laura said earlier, we've tackled all kinds of issues over the years. The most recent article up there is Can I enjoy a summer holiday and still save? I wonder who came up with that one, Laura. Actually wasn't my idea, but I was

probably the first to read it. There's also an article up there about whether property can really be your pension. And I mentioned that because we've been talking a lot about mortgages over the past couple of weeks because the Bank of England lowered interest rates this month.

And that is actually gonna be the one big thing that we're tackling this episode. So if you're new here, each episode we take A big money topic that's in the news, and give you a very straightforward take on it, an explainer of what it means and how it might impact your finances. And so this episode we're going to be focusing on interest rates. So, Danny, for those of us that aren't in the know, let's go right back to basics. What are interest rates?

Yeah, I think going back to basics is really important because we can all hear a term, can't we, and think, Oh yeah, yeah, I know that and then you start to think about it and you think, Well, hang on a second, I think I know But in a nutshell, interest is the bit that you get charged when you borrow money, often to make a big purchase that you pay off over time, like a house or a car. It is also what you get paid for saving money.

Now, the way that it is worked out by lenders is complicated, but the general idea is you pay a percentage of what you borrow or you earn a percentage of what you save. Now, as Laura said, you might have seen or heard news reports about the Bank of England lowering interest rates. And wondering why maybe you didn't see any change in the rate you're paying, maybe for your mortgage, we're going to dig into a few areas where you won't see a change or where you are likely to see a change.

But first, let's just discuss where the Bank of England's base rate, as it is called, fits into things. I'm gonna try and keep things really simple. There's an awful lot of jargon. I'm gonna try and dispense with that. But the Bank of England sets a base interest rate. Now that is the rate that it charges other lenders to borrow money, and that rate gets reviewed eight times a year, so about every six weeks.

There are nine members of the Monetary Policy Committee. They're the folks that make that decision. And they all have a vote and the majority rules. Now in the last couple of years the meetings have been really big news because of course when rates go up or down, they have a huge impact on people's financial lives, Laura.

Yeah, exactly. And for lots of people the past few years have been a bit of a shock because they'd got used to interest rates being ultra low. So just after the financial crash, the base rate went from five point seven five percent. um which was the high that it reached in July two thousand and seven, right down to just half a percent in March.

two thousand and nine and it actually stayed in that place for seven years. So you talked about, you know, the decision that the Bank of England making at the moment being big news. That is definitely true in comparison to that seven years where at every meeting the conclusion was no change and there was no expectation of a change. So I think it kind of fell out of people fell out of the news cycle and fell out of people's minds as as a thing that impacted their lives.

So after that seven years being at half a percent and it fell again after the Brexit vote in twenty

And then after a couple of small rises came the COVID pandemic. And at that point in March 2020, the Bank of England lowered the rate right down to 0.1%, which is The lowest it has been Now the logic here is that low base rates, so a low Bank of England interest rate filters through and it means that when you borrow money it's cheaper so you're charged a lower interest rate on that and equally your savings will earn a lower interest rate because that base rate is set lower.

And so with those lower lending rates, you're more likely to borrow money to spend. And with those lower savings rates, you are less likely to think, oh well, I'll just stick my money in the bank and earn a decent return on it. I'm better off. spending it and that helps to stimulate the economy. So that is the kind of e very basic economics one oh one of why interest rates matter.

Um but by December twenty twenty one the Bank of England needed to change tack and so interest rates are also a lever that can be pulled to reduce inflation. And after the pandemic, we obviously all experienced What was often dubbed the cost of living crisis, but was that huge spike in inflation, huge spike in the rate at which prices were rising? And so by December twenty twenty one the

CPI rate of inflation, which is the measure that is most often used, was 5.1%, reaching a 10-year high. And it carried on going up from there. But as a result, the Bank of England decided to raise interest rates. and carried on doing so from there. Yeah, there's been a lot of debate about whether or not they acted too late. They were actually the first major central bank to cut into

Um and there were also uh been a lot of debate about um what central banks at the time were talking about, transitory inflation. We were all thinking, okay, supply chain crisis. That's gonna disappear really quickly, and this inflation that we've suddenly got that we're not used to is going to disappear just as fast. Um, because the reason that they increase interest rates is kind of the counter to what you were just saying about why you keep interest rates low.

'Cause the idea is that if you lift interest rates, then people will be less inclined to borrow money. They'll want to make wait to make big purchases until rates come down. They'll be more inclined to save money. And then of course the issue was that no one predicted that Russia would invade Ukraine, upset the world's energy market, which led to that awful cost of living crisis that honestly I think we are still dealing with today.

Inflation. And I still can't believe that this happened. Inflation hit a 40-year high in the UK of 11.1%. That's just a couple of years ago. We're at 2.7%. 11.1%. And that meant that the Bank of England had to keep acting to combat those rising interest rates. Actually, they then raised interest rates. 14 times. That took us from a low of 0.1% to a high of 5.25% in August 2023.

Now, of course, the Bank of England changing interest rates, that seems like well that's a big thing that the Bank of England are doing. How does that impact me? But it actually, as we all know, has a big impact on our finance. in some ways directly and in some ways indirectly. Now the biggest place where people will feel those interest rate changes is with their mortgage because for most people that's the single biggest loan that they will ever take out.

Um and so the interest rate changing on that has a big impact on their finances and just on their monthly outgoing. And so for lots of people they sign up to a fixed rate mortgage. So this is where you get a locked in rate for a period of time. Sometimes that's two years, sometimes that's five years. the very small market for ten year fixed rate mortgages that some people will have signed up. And that means that the interest rate doesn't change until your fixed rate deal comes to an end.

So it means that for lots of people who were sitting there, particularly on their five year fixed rate mortgage, what was happening at the Bank of England didn't make a tiny bit of difference to their mortgage rates. They were still paying that same monthly fee. But When that fixed rate mortgage came up for renewal, they found that they were renewing at much, much higher rates.

And particularly if we think about the context of that very long period where interest rates were at a rock bottom. Lots of people will have only known home buying and and homeowning during that period and will have only have known interest rates on their mortgage being And so that jump then had a big impact on people's finances. often seeing their monthly payments jump by hundreds of pounds a month.

Um, if you don't sign up to a new deal after your fixed rate deal, you fall back onto what's called the standard variable rate. banks set their own uh standard variable rates and they can change them when they want to, but they typically go in line with the Bank of England. Um and for

lots of banks, those shot up dramatically during that period. So that means if you didn't get around to sorting out a fixed rate deal and you fell on to that rate, you were paying often cut times eight or nine percent when we saw interest rates at their peak. So that obviously your interest rate going on up to that level would have had a huge impact on on your monthly payments.

Now, according to UK Finance, which is the Trade Association for Banks and Financial Services, there are currently just over half a million homeowners on that standard variable rate. And as of the 1st of May, so before this latest interest rate change, this average standard variable rate was 7.58%. So you can see that it's still way above where the base rate is and way above what the average two-year fixed rate mortgage is according to Money Fact.

which was just over five percent um just before that Bank of England change. So that SVR standard variable rate is normally the most expensive rate out there. And we know some people who didn't want to fix at a high rate, who hoped that interest rates would fall quickly, they fell on to that standard variable rate.

because they weren't locked into a a product and you can switch at any time off that rate without paying an early repayment charge. But it's really tricky as we know to um estimate what's gonna happen with Bank of England base rate um and To kind of peg your monthly payments to that. Without a crystal ball, we don't know how far or how fast those rates are going to be cut.

of all they would be much, much richer. Um so I think it's always a good idea to consult a mortgage broker. Um if you can. There are fee free brokers out there that you that you don't have to pay. fees two. And what is a good idea is six months ahead of your fixed rate deal ending, you can lock in a new rate up to six months ahead. So it is always a good idea to speak to a mortgage broker if you can. There are fee free ones out there that you don't have to pay a fee to.

So worth considering those. Um and a really good tip is the set a calendar reminder for six months before your fixed rate mortgage deal is coming up. Um and you can lock in a rate at that point. If rates fall after then, then you can ditch that rate um and get a better deal, but it gives you that kind of cushion to fall back.

See that's just sounded an alarm bell with me because my fixed rate and I'm so lucky because I was on a five-year fixed rate and I fixed in December 2020. So I'm almost at that six month point. So I'm start looking now and see if I can lock in a deal just in case anything happens that we are not expecting. Cause as Laura said, it would be great to have a crystal ball, but we just don't have

Now there is one other option which has proved really popular over the last couple of years for mortgages. And in fact, UK finance says that almost six hundred thousand homeowners have gone and that is a tracker mortgage. So just like a fixed rate, trackers are usually agreed for a set period of time, so two, five years.

And these are not like fixed rates because they are tied to the base rate, but a set amount above. So If you get a deal which is the base rate plus 1%, say, and the base rate now is 4.25%, you will pay 5.25%. If the base rate goes up, obviously your mortgage payments are going up as well. But if it comes down, then your monthly payments come down too.

It just depends on whether or not you like the absolute certainty of knowing exactly what you're going to be paying every month for the next two or five years. But of course I It's quite difficult to make the decision when you see all those news stories at the month, commentators saying, you know, interest rates are going to keep coming down. We could see mortgages around 3.5%. Maybe from the end of the year, so you might not want to lock in, you might want to give yourself the flexibility, but

You know, everybody's situation is different. And as Laura said, do go and talk to a broker because if you have questions, they can help you find the best deal for you. And most importantly, peace on. And I think one last thing that's worth covering is lots of people ask us why the fixed rate deals being offered by lenders aren't exactly the same as the Bank of England base rate or aren't falling or rising exactly in step with what the Bank of England is doing with this base.

And that's because they're not directly tied to them. So they're definitely heavily influenced by them, but they are not obligated to move exactly in step with what the Bank of England is doing. They are jargon alert here. They are heavily influenced by what are called swap rates.

Now this sounds very nerdy and techie financy, but it's actually whoever is lending you that money, say a bank is lending you the money to pay for your for your mortgage, um, they have to borrow it from an other financial institution and how much interest they are charged will be based on where the base rate Expected to go over the whole period of that loan. So not just the snapshot of where it is now, but where it's expected to go over that two years or five years of the fix.

as well as how the economy as a whole is expected to perform. And so that's where we can start to make some educated decisions about where swap rates and the Bank of England base rate is likely to go over the rest of the year. It's worth mentioning also that mortgage rates are determined by that, but also by competition in the market. So if some of the really big lenders decide to cut their rates, then others may cut their rates because

They're competing for business at the end of the day, like lots of other businesses. So that is why you might see, you know, some of the big lenders like Barclays or the big banks cut their rates and then lots of others may follow suit because competition works in that market as well.

Which is all to say that it's quite tricky to exactly work out what's gonna happen with rates and mortgage rates. But we can look ahead to kind of what's likely to happen over the rest of the year. So let's start with growth because All of the uncertainty about Donald Trump's tariffs, along with homegrown issues like the increase in employers' national insurance costs, have all impacted the expectation for how fast the UK is likely to grow this year.

which is more g more jargon called GDP or gross domestic product. But it's basically a measure of all of the goods and services produced over a period of time or a kind of economic health check for the country. So that's not expected to be great news over the rest of the year, but a bit better than we thought it might be at the start of the year. So there's still an argument that the economy needs a bit of a boost. And one way it can do that is interest rates.

Now another thing that the Bank of England considers when making decision about where interest rates, the base rate is going to go is all to do with inflation. Because as Laura and I were saying earlier, um one of the things that interest rates do is they can either make you think about spending more or saving more, and that is why they're a really useful tool if the Bank of England is looking to curb inflation. And inflation had been expected to peak in the summer at three point seven percent.

It's now expected to peak slightly lower at three point five percent. Remember, here's another bit of economic data for you. The Bank of England actually has a target of two percent. So it tries to keep inflation at about that point. It's also looking at employment and growth, as Laura was saying. So those numbers are really significant. And we've also had a huge number of big bill increases.

That happened in April, which are looking to filter through in terms of boosting inflation, but a bit like a seesaw, the other side of a seesaw is that the oil price. um and the expectation for energy prices through the year, also wage growth slowing a little bit, all of those things are expected to give the Bank of England's rate setters. a bit of a push towards more interest rate cuts over the year.

And one of the insights that we have into what may happen with interest rates over the year, although by no means set in stone is the kind of market expectations. So what all of the analysts and what markets are pricing in of where rates will go. And Daniel, I know you track this keenly. So can you tell us what those are currently?

I do. I I look at it every day, sometimes twice or three times a day, but that's my nerdy life. It's like you with your spreadsheets, Laura. Don't say that you don't enjoy looking at a chart full of numbers. Um look at the U.S. Market expectation has been chopping and changing. It it really has. Um, I'm sure if you've woken up to the news at any point over the last month, you might have heard stories about what Donald Trump is doing with regard to tariffs.

And that has had a huge impact upon the expectation for global growth, uh, for the pound in all of our pockets. But as we record this, markets are expecting at least one, possibly two, at the off-chance three cuts to the base rate. for the rest of the year. So it would take the base rate where it is now in May 2025 from 4.25% down to at least 4. Maybe as far as 3.5% by the end of the year. But as Laura says, look, markets don't have a crystal ball either.

They are looking at all of the data. And the one thing I would say is that market expectation changes almost as often as, you know. Changed the art on my walls, but there we go. But all of this also impacts Saber's law.

Exactly. So it's lower interest rates. Yes, big tick in the side of anyone that's got a mortgage, particularly if you've got a very meaty mortgage or if you've got other borrowing. Not so good for those who have large savings and cash savings. Um and I think one of the really key things is that during that period of really low interest rates, no one really bothered moving their savings around because there weren't great rates on offers. And what was the point of moving to get a

zero point zero one percent difference in your savings rate. It's just not enough to motivate people. Sadly, some of that apathy has really set in in people. And now you actually can get really decent rates on your savings, but you have to move your money. So you have to look at where is offering best rates and you have to shift it. So if your money is sitting in a current account rather than in a savings account.

Or if it's sitting in an old savings account, even if it's only just over a year old, you'll likely find that that rate has gradually been chopped over time and you're not getting the best rate that you could be getting. Um so your ballpark really is inflation, which is currently two point seven percent. You definitely want to be trying to earn more than that on the interest on your savings. Um, but according to Money Facts, the average easy access savings rate is 2.78%.

So not really much more than inflation. But there are lots of accounts that are offering much more. So around four point seven five percent. You can actually get higher rates if you're willing to lock up your money for a bit longer or reduce the number of withdrawals you have or opt for slightly different accounts so definitely worth going on to either a comparison site or something like Money Saving Exper or going on a cash savings hub where there's lots of different accounts in one place.

Um to find the best deep There's also a good argument, I think, for people assessing how much they have in cash savings and whether that is proportionate to what they need. So when we think of cash savings, we think of that for your short term money. Um anything that you want as your emergency pot or that you're gonna spend in the next few years, anything beyond that you can think about investing.

Um one of the options is uh AJ Bell Doddle, which offers a bit of a mixture of both. So it's uh a 4.58% interest rate on any cash that's sitting in your investment account. But then you can also invest that money as you build up your confidence over time. So definitely one to take a look at if you think you might be ready to dip your toe into investment.

And if you are interested, we've got all sorts of articles and other podcasts which will take you through everything from starting to invest to the different types of fund and our last one was also looking at um ethical and sustainable investing. So if we have wet your appetite to take a look at some of these things, that is great.

Um hopefully that has given you a little bit of insight, some clarity, hopefully broken down any of the jargon that we use. Just about interest rates and how they impact all of us, what we might expect from them for the rest of the year, but we just need to, you know, so And again, we do not have a crystal ball. Nobody does. Even the members of the Monetary Policy Committee who will sit down to make the next decision probably haven't made up their minds yet.

not just about the one that they're about to make next month, but also what happens for the rest of the year. And remember, an awful lot could change between now and December. But what isn't going to change is the space on my wall where I now imagine perfectly a lovely oil painting of a flower filled meadow. But one that I didn't buy from the affordable author.

The one that got away. Hopefully it'll be there in October if you go back to their next one in Battersea. But it was really great to be at the affordable outfit in Hampstead and we got the chance to talk to so many people. who stopped by our investing in her stand, which featured some incredible female artists, and it was really great to be a partner for the event. And for those who have never heard of it, our next interview might whet your appetite for future events or for art generally.

Um Jennifer Connor, who is UK Regional Managing Director of the Affordable Art Fair, has some great thoughts on investing in art. Here is what she had to say.

Jennifer, thanks so much uh for joining us on the AJ Bell Money Matters podcast. We are absolutely delighted to be coming along to the Affordable Art Fair, sponsoring a stand there. A lot of people might never have heard of the affordable art fair before. Just explain what it is. Yeah. Well the affordable art fair is a fair that is intended to be accessible for everyone.

It does what it says on the tin. It is intended to be a fare that is affordable for everyone with prices that start as low as fifty pounds. And it just has a joy and an energy about the event we're playing. Fun music and everyone has a drink in their hands and goes around and has chats with galleries or with artists themselves, and it's just A joyful day out, and um we have people coming time and again for that very reason. It's a lot of fun. So when did it start? How did it start?

It started Will Ramsey was the founder of the Affordable Art Fair and He started it because he had gone into some galleries in London and quite frankly was shunned by a few people who turned their nose up or didn't think that he was someone that they wanted to speak with or could really afford the art that was on their wall.

And he was turned off by that. So he started his own gallery called Wills Art Warehouse and the intention was for it to very much mimic the idea of like a majestic wine warehouse where there's just wine bottles everywhere and wine is intended to be in in that forum. more accessible, not scary. And so we thought I'm gonna do the same thing with Will's art warehouse and make art that you can just kind of look at and not be frightened by. It's not a scary four-wall gallery.

And then that extended to the idea of the of the fair. And now there are the three in the UK, but there are fairs on continental Europe. the United States, in Australia, in Asia, so it's really become a global phenomenon.

Because art as an investment, um, people like many people, when they're talking about investments, they just assume it's for the mega rich that you have to have hundreds of thousands of pounds in order to be able to get involved. Right. Definitely not. And definitely art can be an investment. Um, but I think for us and even, you know, I used to work at Sotheby's Auction House many years ago, and even at Sotheby's, people would say, really buy what you love.

because that's the investment. The investment is in looking at it every day and making having it make you feel something. Like any investment, art can go up and down in value, but particularly, you know, for the affordable art fair, it is absolutely accessible at various price points. Will it go up in value? It could, but don't don't buy it for that reason. Buy it because you just love it.

Because I was going to say, you know, do people buy art just because it is an investment and and clearly it can be, but primarily it's about finding something that you want in your home or to give to somebody else. So what should people think about when they're buying I think at certainly at the affordable art fair type levels, you know, if you're going to the fair for the first time or anything.

It's good to have a budget in mind. It can get overly exciting and you find a piece and you want to buy it. There are ways to buy that. in terms of installments or making payments easier. But definitely think about your budget and try to stick within that. And then I think you might want to think about where it might hang in your home or your office or wherever your But the other thing that is really nice to think about and that we encourage people to do is to learn more about the artist.

and what their practice is, if there's a story around the artwork itself, whether there's a narrative around why that artist created it or the color palette that they use. And you can learn so much from talking to the galleries at the fair. It's not a scary place to be. Galleries love talking about their artists. Artists love talking about their work.

So that's part of the joy of it is knowing that and it makes the artwork so much personal, more personal to you. So of course, budget, where it might hang, but also just kind of the story of the artist and the artwork. And just in terms of where it might hang, do you have to really think about that? Do you have to think about light and do you have to think about insurance?

I think you definitely need to think about light. So that will affect your kind of framing and the type of framing that you do and the type of glass. So if it's going to hang in direct in direct light, there are UV glass um options that So definitely where you hang it is important.

And then in terms of insurance, I mean certainly it is smart to be careful. I think that is up to the owner and whether they feel that's something that they want to do. And you might want to speak with your home insurance uh company. But uh that's up that's up to the person the person. So you were saying that um we should come in with a budget in mind, but if we fall in love with something there are options to pay in instalments. How does Absolutely.

Often galleries will have their own uh installment schemes. So you can speak with a gallerist. You should never be embarrassed about asking that question. It's something that they will be used to. So they may offer their own installment plans. At the Affordable Art Fair, for us, we also work with OwnArt, which is a scheme that's supported by the Arts.

And OwnArt will just ask you to apply. It's a very easy process, like you would when you're applying for an installment plan plan on Amazon. You'll apply and then you can pay across 10 interest-free installments every And that suddenly makes something that might feel out of one's budget

To suddenly be a little bit more easy to get your head around. And suddenly you have this beautiful piece in your home that maybe you thought you couldn't afford. But on a scheme like that, it makes it much, much easier. Now I know you said that art should be bought just because people want to own it, they want it in their homes, but for some people it may be seen as an investment.

But just like in investing in other tangible assets, we've spoken about property, we've spoken about gold, people will only make money on those investments

if they then sell them. Is it an easy process to sell our? Sure. It is. I think it sounds daunting, but it's easier than you think it might be. And there are lots of different avenues for. I think depending on what the artwork is and your anticipated value for it will depend on where you might go. So you'd want to do your research around that.

But there are local auction houses, so maybe not as big as Sotheby's or Christie's, but local auction houses that specialize in this all the time and someone you can speak with and talk to about the value and how that process works.

auctions often can sound daunting, but they are really not. They're really quite straightforward. And then there are online marketplaces. So again, depending on what that artwork might be, what its price level is, it could be anything Like eBay to First Dips, you know, there are different types of marketplaces that that would be appropriate for that.

And then finally, the last place might be the gallery that you purchased it from itself. If they represent that artist, it's something that they might want to take back and resell or have for their archives, then that might be enough.

Now I have I'm going to ask you for your confession a bit later on, but I have a confession in that my dad loves So when I was a kid at Christmas time quite a bit of a little bit Toys uh my brother, sister and I would end up with a piece of art and I've still got a couple of pieces. On my wall, but it sort of then filtered through. So I would go on holiday, I would visit somewhere in France or the States, and I would.

usually come back with a piece of art, which uh my now husband used to sort of grimace at a bit. But what about you? Where does your lover Um, that's such a good question. I've worked in the art world for a long time. And I've been lucky enough to work in lots of different places and at lots of different levels. So I worked for a very long time, as I mentioned previously at Sotheby's Alpha.

And um I being immersed in that world was just extraordinary. And not only surrounded by you know, the masters, the impressionists, the old masters, but by the people, the experts who know those artworks best and talking to them on a daily basis was just

I mean I look back on it now and I just I feel so lucky having done that for ten years. And so probably I always liked art and like you and your dad, my family, we went Regularly, but that's really where I got a very deep-seated kind of love of art and knowledge. So clearly it it strikes something in you. When you find a piece that resonates with you that you have to buy, how do you feel when you finally hang it on your wall? Um I just got literally I just got shivers right now.

Because that's the way it makes you feel when you, you know, when you have something that you love that much. And I am lucky enough now working with affordable art fair and so many different galleries and artists who have become friends. And that makes it even more joyful to to know that that that I have that connection with the galleries and with the artists.

So yeah, I I think joy is the right word. I know that's the way I've been describing the fair because I really genuinely feel that way. That's also the feel that I get when I have a wonderful piece of art. Um it's a it's a real joy. Makes me feel incredibly young. Because investing should be joyful, it should feel good. And you know being able to then use the money that you have invested and saved to buy something that you really Absolutely. Absolutely.

We all want to be fiscally responsible, and yet you know there is joy to spending money in a responsible way. That's why, you know, I say think about your budget, but there is that reward that feel good feeling about hanging that piece on your wall and knowing that you've achieved it. And that's a a wonderful feeling. Jennifer, thank you so much for talking to us. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

So Jennifer Connor there, the UK Regional Managing Director of Affordable Artfare. And for those of you who entered our competition to win£500. worth of vouchers. We will be notifying you via email and also announcing the winner in our next Money Matters News. And you can spend that money at any of the future art fairs. They have three a year in the UK. The next is in Battersea in London in October.

Or they are also international if you fancy a jaunt over to New York or Australia for your next affordable outfit. But right now it is confession time. Not mine, but Jennifer's because on Money Matter. We ask all of our podcast guests to share a financial confession or a financial dilemma they are struggling with. And I'm hoping Jennifer was knowing. She was no exception, Laura, you'll be delighted to know. And um I'm guessing her confession's kind of an occupational hazard.

And before we let you go, this is the point in proceedings where we ask for your confession or a financial dilemma that you faced. I Um pretty for the most part I'm pretty financially responsible as well. However, you can imagine that working at an art fair is a very, very difficult thing. We have three a year. And um I recently bought a house and I've been doing renovation projects and that's all I should be spending my money on. So I go to each fair and I tell the team

Please don't let me buy anything. And then by Sunday, which is the final day of the fair, I'm tired, I'm worn down, and there's usually just at least one little piece that I feel like I So more often than not, I've walked away, even though I've told myself that I wouldn't, I've walked away with a piece of work at each fair. I I can understand. I'm gonna try and walk away myself, but we shall we shall see. You're gonna have a problem. But good luck to you.

I can relate to that as someone who is also going through a house renovation and also bought art, the affordable art fair, I feel like I relate very hard to this. uh, and came home with it slightly sheepishly to my husband, but said it's an investment and I love it. So yeah, I think we can all relate to having a clear financial plan and then slightly deviating from it.

And I also like your idea of travelling to an affordable art fair outside of the UK,'cause that way we can mix love of travel and holidays and art all at once. Spending money. To New York we come.

See, I like that. I like that idea. Uh that is all for this episode. We hope you enjoyed it. Please do like, subscribe and leave a review wherever you're listening to your pod. We're all over the place, wherever you would get your podcasts from. Do tell your friends and family all about us, get them to sign up to our newsletter. Our next episode is out in a couple of weeks.

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