78: Passion Meets Performance: Tom Kelsey’s Road to 200K Subscribers

Yes, yes, yes. What's up ladies and gents?

Welcome back to the Aim A Little Higher podcast. It's Kamau Ellis Hyman here bringing the podcast back. After a little hiatus, a bit reflecting, a bit of just being out on the road constantly, it's time to bring the podcast back. We're very excited for it because we've had a real reflection of what direction to take the podcast and what to do with it. And look, exposure is everything. The people you meet, the mindsets you're introduced to.

We talk about overcoming your circumstances and setting aspirations based and your potential. But we all know statistically your circumstances are the biggest predictor of where you're going to end up.

So what we've done is we've created a mission to bring the Most impressive under 30s, well, 30 and under, to you. So you can hear their mindset, so you can hear their missions, you can hear the work they're doing. So you can hear a real report of what it's like out there. And be inspired. But not just inspired like oh, it's nice for them, but I mean motivated, motivated to actually take action, to do something.

Because you can see real people who've got real results and are telling you how they did it and not just in a cheesy top line level, but really looking into their journeys and finding out what it really takes to go from high potential to high performance. And when you set a mission like that, you start to meet the right types of people.

So I started boxing. During my time at this boxing gym, I met a lad called Tom, Tom Kelsey. His subscribers will know him better as Tom fm. He is one of the largest football manager content creators in the world. For context, when I interviewed him a few weeks back, he is at around 197000 subscribers now. Upon releasing it, he's over 200,000 subscribers. His videos have been viewed more than 17 million times in 2024. Every time I say that number I have to look back at my notes.

17 million times in 2024 and he's working his way towards 1 million subscribers. Look, this is a great interview and not just if you're a fan of YouTube or a fan of football manager. This is about someone who took a risk on themselves.

You'll find that in the, in the interview about him being in a full time job, taking this risk to take YouTube seriously and what that journey looked like. You get to learn about patience, resilience, get to learn about sacrifice and what actually took for him to make this happen. But most importantly for me, from this interview, it's his mindset, the way he looks at YouTube. If you take that mindset and put it into any other area of your life, you're going to succeed, you're going to do well.

Because it's not just the vanity numbers, it's the competition, it's the obsession, it's the small details that it constantly adjusts and the mentality to keep on going and keep on pushing forward. Look, this is a fantastic episode. You might as well listen to it a couple times. Really glad to bring this to you as the first one.

Tom absolutely smashed it. And it's my pleasure to introduce you to Tom kelsey of Tom FM on YouTube. Enjoy. Tom, welcome to the show, man. How are you? I am very well, thank you. Thanks for having me. How are you? I'm keeping well, man. I'm keeping well. I am living the dream because I get to have a guest on who I can actually talk about football with and it's all relevant, which is amazing.

Rather than me cramming football in irrelevantly and people being like, why has he gone off on the football rant again today? I have full permission. Yeah, the more football, the better. That's what I'm talking about. Absolutely. So as. As the. The intro, let everyone know, like, you are living the. The childhood dream of all of us who once used to play on the PlayStation or an Xbox. If we had a rubbish machine or the classical PC gamers.

We had a game we loved and now you get to play that game you love, but also make a career out of it, which is nuts. It is nuts. I still can't believe I get to do it as a job. I have to pinch myself sometimes because it feels like I'm cheating at life, really. I get to play a video game, put it on the Internet and call it a job. It's. It is a dream come true. Yeah, it's fascinating.

Like, I was looking at your, you know, looking for your channel in the 194,000 people have decided I want to follow Tom's journey in football management. Even though it's completely virtual. Exactly, yeah. And it's just absolutely wonderful. I'd love to know, like, at the beginning, how does this go from you being an everyday dude who picks up a PlayStation Xbox? What was your machine and what was it like that first time? Were you someone who just picked up and you were sick at the game?

So it was like, hey, I'm good at this, I'm going to keep going. So I first got into football manager when I was. It was called Championship Manager back then, actually. Yeah, I was about six years old, bizarrely enough, because my dad was playing it. It was championship manager 2003, 2004. So I was about six, seven years old watching my dad play this game. You know, I go and see him on the computer saying, what are you doing, dad? And he's playing with Lincoln City. That's the team I supported.

I was like, wow, you can play as Lincoln City in a video game. That's. That's crazy. And so I think I just was really interested. I mean, I love footballers anyway, like any kid that sort of age does, that's introduced, that sort of world just falls in love with football. And so I just. So I think I got my dad to show me how to play the game, have my own save, taking Lincoln to the Premier League.

And it all just stemmed from there, really having this exposure at such a young age in this video game. I thought, right, this is one of my favorite games. And I always came back to it, playing it on and off over years and different editions of the game. But it wasn't until I was at university where I just accidentally stumbled across a video of someone playing their save on Facebook, actually, of all places. And so I was like, oh, I did not know this world existed where people made.

Because, you know, having grown up in that sort of early YouTube world, I knew every other game was on YouTube. Minecraft, so popular. Used to watch a lot of that growing up. And so it was a surprise to me that Football Manager had a space on YouTube or the Internet, essentially.

And so I watched this guy for a little bit, and then he said in one of his videos, I remember specifically he said, we need more people creating Football manager videos on YouTube, because there's a very small community. We need more people doing it to grow the community. And, you know, eventually that's collectively growing everyone. And at this point, I had a lot of free time at university.

I had been rowing as part of the rowing team, but then I'd stopped to focus a bit more on actually getting good grades, because that was what I was kind of there for, really. Yeah, there is that. There is that as well. Yeah. So I decided. But always free time because we were training, you know, an awful lot. It had so much free time. I was like, okay, I'm going to give this a go. I'm going to see what I can do. I think I can do it better than other people that are making content.

Let's see what happens. And it just took off from There really. I made my first video in January 2017 and then since then the channel slowly grew and grew and grew and to the point yeah. Where it became viable to be a full time job. Wow. And you went to universities? You didn't go to university to study gaming? No, I did history and international relations which is as far away as you can get really from that kind of stuff. History and international relations.

At uni you start well, continue playing football manager but see like a call to action of we need our football manager community to assemble. Yeah, essentially that. That's amazing. So what was your original plan, you know, going into uni to study those specific, like pretty intense subjects? I didn't really have much of a plan, to be fair. I don't think I ever really knew what I wanted to do growing up. I think when people ask me I just throw out a generic job that I thought sounded good.

I think for a long time I told people, yeah, I want to be a lawyer just because, you know, I had no idea really. But it was a sort of aspirational job that I saw the people sort of wanting. So I just thought I'll say it to people to just sort of, you know, get out the conversation kind of thing. But I had no idea. History was always my favorite subject at school. I really enjoyed politics as well. It helped that my former tutor at school was a gov pole teacher.

So I think that's kind of where that sort of interest came from because he was always talking about it. So I think my logic really was just okay, if I'm going to study for three more years, I'm going to follow my passions and interests in those sort of areas and I'll do that because if I'm going to go for three years, I may as well enjoy what I'm studying because a lot of my friends went in to do career specific degrees and just found it really jarring. Couldn't quite get into it.

It was a bit of a slog at times. So that was my sort of thinking behind it. Follow the passions and interests and you know, see where it takes us. And I guess that's kind of what happened as well. Get into the whole YouTube thing, you know, I'd always had a bit of an interest in making videos. If you go back to when I was in primary school, me and my friend, a little video camera, really rubbish, little thing really. But me and my friends, we used to make videos on that.

You know, we come up the weekends and me and my friends, we'd film, we'd Script a video, make it, and then edit it on a. It was like Windows Movie Maker at the time. So there's always that kind of interest. There was always that interest in the background, I think, of making videos, I guess, so I guess I kind of always had that. And so, yeah, I guess the whole YouTube thing was. That's an interest. I could get involved in that. And it was a bit of a passion that sort of followed through.

And so I guess that's kind of what I've always done. Just followed interests and passions and it's. It's worked out quite well for me so far. See, that's really interesting because there's so many, like, people I meet who have multiple interests at once and they always feel like they have to sacrifice one of them to follow the other one. But it seemed like you have this perfect balance of. Educationally, I'm good at this, so I'll just keep going down that route.

Socially, I quite like Rowan and everything involved in that. And then virtually this is my game that I. That I really enjoy. And you just let all three streams continue to move forward together. Exactly. Yeah. I think there's no, there's no serious critical thinking going on when I'm deciding to do all these things. It's just, it's an interest. Let's follow it, see what happens, you know. You know, I may as well enjoy myself when I'm going through life.

Have you ever been someone who puts high pressure on yourself, like with all. Of these different interests? Have you ever been like a. I need to be the best, I need to be that high level. Is there like that internal drive to smash it?

Are you quite competitive? There is with YouTube? 100%. I've always had that. You know, as much as, like other people making content are my friends, you know, I've got to know a lot of these guys over the years and, you know, they're, excuse me, great people and I really like them all. It is still a competition in my head. It's like, I'm going to get more subscribers than you, I'm going to get some more views than you sort of thing.

So I've always had that with YouTube and there's always that drive to. To do for bigger numbers. I think the YouTube thing is there's so many numbers involved with it and it's always trying to break through. And so actually, I think in recent years I have struggled a little bit with being satisfied and, you know, celebrating the key milestones because for a long time I remember a hundred thousand subscribers was like, oh, my word, that's an incredible number of people.

I remember lying in bed sometimes at night, you know, you can't quite sleep and you start thinking about that kind of stuff and thinking how exciting that would be when you hit that huge number of 100,006 figures. But then it sort of gets to a point where you're at 80, 90,000 subscribers and it's like, okay, this is now inevitable. It's going to happen, right? And then some of that excitement sort of fell away a little bit.

And I Remember on the YouTube channel, you can watch, like your live subscriber feed, I remember sitting there at, you know, 990, 999,000, nearly 99,999 sort of thing, just waiting for that one more to tick over. And yeah, it was a great moment, but it's like as soon as it happened, it wasn't like a huge, you know, feeling of elation or anything like that. It was like, right, a hundred thousand, that's cool. Let's. Let's work to get 200,000 sort of thing.

So I need to do a better job of trying to celebrate those moments and not focus quite so much on the drive to just beat everyone else and get more and more and more rights. But in terms of, you know, academics at school or rowing, for example. Academic at school particularly, I was more interested in having fun with my friends more than anything else. I maybe coasted through school a little bit too much kind of thing.

There was never really a drive to, you know, do better than, get better grades than my friends sort of thing. I was more interested in who was going to score goals at lunchtime. Football sort of thing. Right? That was kind of where my thoughts let school a little bit more, rowing as well. Like, you know, you always want to be the best and beat other people, but I think physically there were just bigger, stronger guys there. And I knew that.

I knew that, you know, these guys were always going to beat me. So I just do what I can do best I can. But I was never going to be the top dog at the club there because there were just some, you know, guys doing GB trials sort of thing, right? And they could push themselves mentally a lot further physically, know what I mean?

Like, yeah, when I'm, you know, when we're deep into a half an hour, you know, row machine session sort of thing, like, and I can start to feel the pain, I'm easing off, you know, I've always struggled to sort of physically push through that pain barrier, whereas these Other guys just didn't have that in their heads sort of thing.

So they would be able to push themselves through that pain barrier and they'd be falling off the machine, you know, in that 30 minute session, you know, gasping for air sort of thing. But they just pulled like an amazing time. So that, that's why I was never, I knew for a long time I was never going to be that sort of level. You know, I'm going to enjoy myself and you know, do as well as I can, but I'm never going to be at top level. I think that's probably why I made my piece there.

So I never quite pushed myself so much there, I think. But yeah, when it came to YouTube and stuff, it's yeah, totally different. Do you think if you'd applied the level of competition and sort of dedication, maybe obsession that you have with your YouTube stuff into school education, into rowing, that you could achieve top grades in there or, or could be GB trialist or do you think there were like other limitations that it just. No matter how hard you tried in certain areas, it wasn't for you?

I think maybe academically, yeah, potentially, like I say it was a bit more of a. I remember our teacher in sick form specifically had to have a say, had to have a conversation with him. We had a conversation and he basically sat me down, was like, Tom, you're having too much fun basically. You know, because I was always a little bit more of the class clown sort of type, you know, a bit more. No, maybe I did sort of want to be center of attention sometimes. I don't know.

I guess that kind of makes sense with YouTube, right? Because you know, it's not like I'm putting myself on YouTube because I'm a introvert, nervous wreck sort of thing. You know, you've got. I don't want to be seen. Don't actually look at my YouTube channel. Yeah, exactly. So there was, yeah, I just had a lot of fun in school. I was always just there to, you know, with your best friends, every single day. It was great. I loved it. That's what I enjoyed so much.

So I think had I maybe knuckled down a bit more perhaps could have got some better grades. In fact, I think my predicted grades, I don't think I hit any of them for A levels sort of thing. So you know, that, that maybe shows that. But I think in terms of the rowing stuff, like I just think there's always been this thing inbuilt in my head where when the pain starts, when you're doing some sort of physical exercise. It's like, okay, let's. Let's ease off a little bit. I just can't.

I always try and break through that. You know, I'm in the gym quite a bit and, you know you're trying to get to exhaustion for muscle growth. Right. But as soon as it starts to get tricky, it's kind of like, no, let's ease up. Let's not hurt yourself or I don't know what it is. So whatever that is, I can never get around that. See, that's so interesting that sort of. Academically you knew what you were doing. You knew if you could turn it on if you wanted to, but you prioritize the social.

But that sounds like a genuine decision. Not like you couldn't, but yes, 100%. Which makes sense. Whereas with the physical stuff, it was actually like, I don't want to. And I don't think I can push past that point. This is where I'm good. I think so, Yeah. I just, I can never, never. Whatever it is in my brain, it just stops me. And I try to override it all the time, but it never quite works.

Maybe can override it for like, you know, an extra rep or two, but by the time you're on a third set or something and you know, on bench press, it's like, okay, let's. Let's pull this off and stop now. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, you and I go to the same, same box engine, right? Yeah. And I, I know even there, there's different approaches to it where some people like slogging it out and every spa is going to be real. And then some of them like, hey, I'm just trying to get fit and in shape.

And it's got that community of everyone at different levels or doing it in different ways. The reason I dig into it so much is because there's this idea that how you do anything leaks into how you do everything. So, yeah, if you're someone who physically, in those workouts, etc, might take your foot off the gas and that will leak into your education. You take foot off the gas and that will leak into your YouTube and take. But quite clearly that's not the case.

You've got those elements where it's like, that's just enjoyment. But the YouTube is like a different Tom. It's like, right, I'm going to be consistent. I'm posted out. I'm going to make sure each video is more entertaining than the last. Yep, you're my friend, love what you're doing, but in my head, I'm coming for you. Yeah, it is turned on there. It is really strange, actually, how there is that difference and how I can recognize that so much as well, I think.

But you're right, it is like two different sort of versions in a way, you know, especially with YouTube, you know, my girlfriend will tell you about it, like, you know, I can spend all night, you know, sat there editing a video and she'll get cross about that sort of thing and, you know. But again, it doesn't feel like work. It doesn't feel like a job. It's not a chore.

It's a pleasure that I get to do this and I love doing it so much, which is why, you know, I. I do more work than I would do in a normal job. I'm 100% sure of that. More hours and stuff. But it's so much more fulfilling and enjoyable. Yeah. Would you say you've. You're obsessed with that world? Yeah, probably. I probably am, to be fair. I think it'll be a fair assessment. It's not so much obsessed with, you know, watching other YouTube videos or consuming content. It's an obsession with.

It is like a video game to me, I guess, in a way. You know, the high score is, you know, what's the highest view video I've got, sort of thing. So how am I going to beat that high score? You know, subscriber numbers is a game, you know, I'm trying to get that to that next. The next level, you know, the next level up of, you know, 200,000, 300,000 sort of thing. So I think I maybe sit a bit more like that. And it's. I'm constantly trying to beat myself and improve myself.

And then when you see the rewards come through from it as well, like, you know, that's quite a dopamine hit, I suppose. And you want to try and beat that as well. That's. It's properly fascinating because there is this thing of finding your thing. And I believe you go from someone who's high potential to high performance. And there's this journey you go through and people get. People stop at each stage of journey.

So you might have high potential, then you get to a point where you're coasting, where you know you could work harder and do better. You also know you could be worse and fail. So you sit in the middle comfortably. Then some people move on and they become better than everyone around them. Yeah. And then there's that new level of just high performers. Who are just out there going for it.

And in that world of YouTube, you are in that high performance category where you've got so many subscribers there loving what you do. You consistently create new, interesting content and you're not stopping, you're not going, yeah, hey, I hit 100K. I got, I got that. You're in that full performance mode. What sacrifices have you found you've had to make to get to that level of performance? I think from the outside, some people who've never tried YouTube are very ignorant to what it takes.

It's like, oh, you just, what, you play games and record videos and call that a living. I could do that. Until they upload a video and there's three views, they're like, hmm, what's going on here? So for you, what sacrifices have you had to make to really hit that level?

So it's difficult because I think I'm so focused on growing, developing and getting better sort of thing that to me things maybe don't feel as much of a sacrifice because it's just what I love doing, you know, I'm so lucky to do what I do, I'm in love with it sort of thing. But I'm sure other people around me will say, well, actually, you know, you don't spend as much time with us as you would do if you had a normal job. You know, you maybe aren't as attentive as you perhaps should be.

You know, I could check my WhatsApp now and I know there's going to be four or five missed messages from like two weeks ago from friends that I haven't replied to yet, just because I see the message be like, okay, I'm working on this right now, I'll reply later on and then swap notification away. And it's like, oh, that then gone up for my brain sort of thing.

So I think, I think maybe I need to do a better job of that sort of work, life balance and because, yeah, it's probably not so fair that I'm a bit more distant than I should be kind of thing. So I think that's probably the biggest one that I get called upon a lot kind of thing. Yeah, like a social sacrifice of which makes sense.

You're editing all night, you're then going to be a bit tired in the morning when they start chatting and I could go out, but I also could finish this perfect little bit. Yeah. And I think, I think as well sometimes, you know, I've always enjoyed being active and stuff like that, you know, whether been rowing at Uni or against the gym quite a bit now boxing as well, obviously with you recently. So. But I will always prioritize work over those things.

So if I know I'm slightly behind on something, it's like, okay, I won't go to the gym this morning, I'm going to just get it straight away, get working. So that's a bit of a sacrifice, I think, you know, work. And you know what? When I wasn't a full time YouTuber because in between graduating uni and going full time, I did work, I had an actual real job for a little bit. And at that actual real job all the time, I was like, now you should not prioritize work.

You know, this company are keeping me here for eight hours. If they expect me to do like an extra hour on top of that, you know, that's not in my contract. I'm not doing that. You know, I've got to look after me first. But then suddenly when I'm, you know, self employed, doing it my own sort of thing, that all changes because suddenly what I'm doing something I really enjoy, but also the bottom line ends with me. Right. If that's the right way to say it.

And so suddenly work is then the most important thing because if I don't do the work, I'm not getting the rewards from it, you know, I'm not getting paid. And then I have to go and get a real job again. I'm so I do not want to get a real job again sort of thing. And at some point in life I will have to, you know, everyone on the Internet, everyone on YouTube has got a shelf life.

You know, at some point, at some point someone younger, better looking, more relatable will come along, take the views and there will be a downward trend. It happens with everyone on YouTube. You know, a lot of the guys I would watch when I was younger growing up, you know, and had millions of subscribers. Yeah. Although they still have million subscribers now.

You look at the videos they get and it's like, you know, they're getting less views than, than I do on a much smaller channel sort of thing in a much smaller niche. And so everyone's got a shelf life on YouTube. At some point mine will end and I will have to change things up a little bit. So I think that's also part of the, the drive of putting work first. I want to just do as well as I can right now for as long as I can before inevitably at some point, you know, things slow down.

So that's a huge Drive, I think, actually. So there's a real self. Self awareness is, I think, key to life and you have so much self awareness. It's quite amazing to know that this thing has a self, a shelf life and feel like at some point it's going to dip. Is that one of the main drivers that gets you to do it? Yeah, I think so massively. Because, you know, at the moment things are going pretty well and it's a nice earner and stuff like that.

And so, you know, I want to get as much out of it as possible. You know, I'll evolve and adapt over the years, I think. I feel like I have done that pretty well over seven years. A lot changes in seven years and my content has changed quite a bit and I'm sure it will change a lot in the next, you know, seven years, hopefully going forward kind of thing. And so that will. There will be change in adaptions, but adaptations rather.

But yeah, at some point, you know, viewers will lose interest and they will move to other things and it's impossible for me to keep up with every single change of trend and audience wants. So, you know, at some point it will come to an end. So I'm going to just try and smash it as long as I can, you know, do as well as I can right now. And then inevitably when it happens, you know, I can say, look, I did a great job for all those years, had a great time doing it, you know, it's fine.

Wow, that's. That's amazing to hear because it sounds you. It comes out of this genre that we have of like, you know, a YouTuber. They can do it in essence forever. Your subscribers will be there. Once you've got that many subscribers, I'll keep on watching. But from the inside, it's completely different view. It sounds so similar to professional sports in the sense of there's a. Yeah. And I think that there's a shift.

Yeah, I think for me, actually I am lucky that my audience generally is a bit older on the grounds that, you know, it's not teenagers really watching my content. Football manager tends to have an older demographic and so I think because of that I will have a bit more longevity because as an adult, your interests don't change massively.

I think, you know, for me growing up, right, you know, some, like I mentioned earlier, the guys I watched growing up, suddenly these days they don't get, you know, the same views that they used to get. You know, essentially people would say they've fallen off, they haven't, you know, it's just a change of essentially their audience grew up, got different interests and stopped watching what they used to watch when they were younger.

And the next generation finds something else slightly more interesting sort of things. Those creators don't quite get the same. It's not like they're replenishing the audience because the interest change. They haven't adapted so much. So I think I'm slightly. I've got a bit more longevity because my own is older kind of thing. But at some point, you know, business. Yeah, yeah, it's proper business, if you.

Will look at, you know, don't give YouTube is the titles of entrepreneurs or that kind of thing. It's just you're a YouTuber. But yeah, it's such a business. You've got a target market in mind, you know what they want when their needs change. You adapt your product and service to meet it. You've got to be consistent so that they're happy with that end product and it's good. And you go in different partnerships and different directions to make sure it's sustainable, like.

And you're looking at past businesses that have, that have dipped and going, what happened? How do I avoid it? There's so much more to it than I think there is that people assume there is. From the outside, it's amazing to hear the inner thoughts. It is 100%, I think, like you say, a lot of people who ask me what I do, just assume you sit from the computer, just play a bit of a game, put it on YouTube.

The whole thought process behind decision making like that, you know, but also, you know, from the angle of, you know, actually making the video to get people to watch. It's got to be entertaining, it's got to be engaging.

And a whole load of thought process goes into, you know, scripting things out to make sure it's set in a way that is entertaining and engaging, leaves open questions that the audience want answers to later on and how you can sort of manipulate things that way to try and get people to stick around and watch more. So, yeah, there's a whole process in terms of actually creating a good video.

It's more than just sitting down and saying like, this is what we're doing today and then just start kicking a few buttons. The whole process of stuff. Yeah, that's awesome. So at what point in this journey are you doing it and getting nothing back? You know, from. From starting day one of going, I'm going to make a YouTube channel. How long are you putting in this work, being consistent and the world is not giving you anything back to say that you're going to be a high performer.

So the first year was not tricky, but it's more like the first year was all about learning. And I think I went into it thinking, if I want to grow, I've just got to make loads of videos and learn how to make a good video sort of thing. So the first. It was probably the first 10 months where really you'd put a video out and if it got, you know, 25, 30, 40 views, it was like, oh, that's a good video, that's done well sort of thing. So that first year really was kind of like a lot of learning.

You know, you're not making any money off it. It's all about just the repetitions and practicing. And so you are getting something out of it because you're learning every video you make. But it's not like you're getting any financial rewards out of it. You're not really getting much interaction from audience members at that point because it's such a small audience, you know, you're not getting many views. Yeah. And then it was.

So I started with January 2017, and it was December 2017 where I had one video get really popular that I'd done. And then, yeah, just before the end of the year, I think I hit a thousand subscribers. And that was like, wow, it's taken a year to get a thousand subscribers. That's incredible. I can't believe how fast I've done that. I think I remember saying wow at the time sort of thing.

And, you know, these days, you know, if I don't get a thousand subscribers in like a week, it's kind of like that was a really bad week sort of thing. So, yeah, it changes massively. Wow. Kind of thing. So, yeah, that year of just, I'm grinding it out and I'm going to keep doing it regardless of what comes back my way 100%. And then I think then the road to 10,000, that took a few years to be fair, to get to 10,000 subscribers off the back of that.

But again, you know, I was putting the repetition in knowing how to make a good, you know, learning how to make better videos and stuff over that time. So it wasn't wasted, you know, and I was making, you know, some pocket money on the side sort of thing with that kind of stuff. And yeah, 10,000 subscribers, that was like another huge milestone, you know, the next sort of. Yes, that's five figures then.

So going from there and then having a long hard look at Saying, okay, how do I get to 100,000 subscribers?

Things have got to change because the growth hasn't been quite what I expect at that point. Maybe a few new people are coming to the scene and maybe overtaking me a little bit, I was like, okay, so what are they doing that I'm not, that I need to do better. And essentially my sort of big issue was that I was doing the same stuff as everyone else. So foot manager content up to that point really had just been, let's start a long save with a club. So I sport Lincoln City.

Let's say I did Lincoln City and you started episode one of your, you know, the first day of the first season, you're in charge and that gets quite a lot of you clips. Episode one, I was like, oh, that's a new series, let's watch that. Then suddenly episode two comes along. But there's not so many people watching that video because some people didn't quite the first episode, for example, and thought, it's not for me. I won't bother.

From that point on, when you're doing episode two, no one new is joining that journey sort of thing. And so I would be, you know, 100 episodes deep and thinking, why is, why is no one really watching this? I think it's great. I love this. And although I'm enjoying it myself and the people who love it, no one new is joining episode 100 and they're not going to go back and watch for episode one and watch 100 episodes to catch up sort of thing. And so that was the sort of big mistake I was having.

And so I switched style to sort of just do one off videos, essentially, you know, where I'd be changing something in the game's database. You know, for example, I would give, you know, a team in the National League, a billion pounds, let's see what they can do sort of thing with that billion pounds over the next 50 years, for example. And so the switch to those sorts of videos is like, ah, this is a new video every single time someone watches this. It's not like they're.

They need the context of the previous 99 videos. These appeal to a whole new audience of people who have not seen my content before. Every video is a chance for a new person to come along. And so that sort of switching content, yeah, really accelerated things. And so I think I hit 100,000 subscribers.

It was last year at some point. And so that was probably maybe around this time last year, maybe June, July, sort of last year, I think I hit 100,000. And so I've kept with that formula sort of since then and now in the space of 12 months, I've almost got another hundred thousand subscribers. Yeah, like 194 now. Yeah. So we're just shy of 200,000 at the moment. So, yeah, that sort of switch has been remarkable. Yeah, that's amazing.

Yeah. Trying to make sure every video is as accessible as possible to a whole new audience every single time. So they don't need any sort of context as to, you know, the previous videos. It's all there pretty much, and anyone new can join in whenever. So we've gone from a year to a thousand, another two, three years to get to that 10,000, another few years to get to 100,000, but then 100 to nearly 200,000 in around 12 months. Yeah, yeah, maybe a little bit over.

12 months now, to be fair, but yeah, it's been a dramatic increase. Yeah, that's amazing to show that if you stick it out and keep going, but not just repeating the same thing, I think that's what people get wrong. Repetition is the master. And it's like, yeah, if you're repeating the correct things, if you keep repeating the wrong things, you're going to go nowhere. Whereas what you did is.

It sounds like you actually have the, the foresight to analyze and go, okay, I'm at this pace, especially that pace. What am I doing wrong? And constantly almost reinventing your approach. Yeah, it's all about being, you know, critical of yourself, I suppose. You know, as much as you, you make a video and you put it out there because you think it's good. Right. You're not going to put something out there that doesn't you think isn't good.

But you also have to have the ability to actually look at it back and say, okay, right, this is what I did this time. Which bits weren't actually that good. Where do I need to improve? You know, it's all about being critical of your own work so you can, yeah, get better every single time, essentially. You know, there's no. You don't help yourself by settling and being, saying, that's good enough. Let's not think about that ever again.

You've got to have that self awareness and be critical in order to grow and improve. Amazing, amazing. The lessons for life in your YouTube journey alone are. This is so real. And I actually think you, you go against a lot of the stereotypes that we have of YouTubers in the world in the sense that, like, you're not someone who's unfit and out of shape and sat there with their Doritos pouring down as they're doing like the rowing. Your gym. We met in a boxing gym, for crying out loud.

Like, so you're looking after yourself in that sense. You've got a girlfriend, which is. Yeah. The real surprise. Yeah. What? Like the YouTubers that have girlfriends, they just sit on it and it's like actually the mentality you have has allowed you to have that really well balanced, well balanced approach where actually you are smashing it. And what was amazing to me of your numbers was 194,000 subscribers is amazing. What was really amazing to me was the views per month, like 1.4 to 2 million.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. And you know, watch time in 2024. Was 3 million hours of people. Like those numbers are crazy. Yeah. And I can never quite get over it. Like the. Particularly the watch time hours. Let me just Google it now. 3 million hours in days. Okay, let's change that to years because. Because it's three. Three. My word. Three million hours in years equates to 342 and a half years. You know, obviously that's collectively, you know, people are watching at the same time sort of thing.

That's how it all works out. That's what I can never get over. Like that's how much time has been spent collectively watching just this year from January 1st up till now in August. That's what is. That's quite scary that. That's just when it sort of gets like, what on earth is. Yeah, I looked at it as an Arsenal fan obviously of like the Emirates Stadium. How many times could you fill the Emirates in a. Yeah, in a month watching you do football manager. And it's 28 and a half.

It's exactly what I used to do, you know, when I was going. I remember hitting 10,000, 10,000 like 130 subscribers. And being like, that is huge for me because a Lincoln City fan Central bank is I think 10,120. I was like, I can fill Sinsel Bank. Amazing. That's crazy. That's like. Yeah. And so. And then I'd, you know, update it every and again. Every milestone was like, oh, which stadium can I fill now? You know, can I get, you know, the Emirates, for example?

So. But that's at the point where it's past every stadium. So it's like I can't compare it to a stadium now because there's no stadium. Exactly. It's like. But now I like to compare myself to Taylor Swift because now it's like, well, Taylor Swift can do eight nights sold out at Wembley, but if I got all my subscribers together in one place, we could do two nights at Wembley. Yeah, that's where it starts to compare it to now, but which is quite funny.

It amuses me in my head at least a little bit. Yeah, yeah. It's an amazing context and I think the question a lot of people always have is, right, this YouTube journey has been a long one, which means you've had to have like, like you call them a normal job in the meantime. But you made the decision to go full time. Now, did you make decisions, go full time and hope that you'd make enough money to live or did it build up to a point where comparatively you're like, actually I could leave now.

It's, it's set for me to be able to live. Yeah. So it was very calculated. I always say it was a calculated risk because, you know, mergers backfired immediately. Luckily it didn't. So 2021, August 2021, it got to a level where I was like, okay, I'm enjoying this, it's growing quite nicely, but I just don't really have enough time to take it to the next level, you know, working full time. And so it was quite lucky actually. Someone who wasn't part time hours where I worked was leaving.

And so I was like, okay, can I take their part time hours. And. I'll drop down to part time three days a week and then those other two days I can just solely focus on YouTube and then working on better content, taking things to the next level. Which worked out brilliantly. That was a lovely nice. In between they were making similar amounts sort of thing. Yeah. So it worked quite nicely. It wasn't like it was a big drop in income or anything like that.

You know, they were at that point earning quite similar. So that dropped from full time to part time, that gaps being filled by YouTube. Yes, exactly. Full time wage in half the time of the great. Yeah, precisely. And so the next year I was part time and the channel grew quite nicely to the point where roughly monthly it would have equaled what I would have made if I was full time at the council where I worked.

So at that point I was like, okay, now is the time, I should probably make that jump sort of thing. And it was scary because, you know, there was always the chance this could just all go wrong all of a sudden and then it would all crumble and burn. But the temptation of, well, hold on, I've got this thing over here making my full Wage. I'm still getting the other half here. Let me spend that difference on a nicer car. Let me go. Exactly. There was that temptation as well.

100%, you know, that extra bit of disposable income, you know, it gets quite nice. You like? Okay. You know, I could get used to this sort of thing. But I think what helped was that I despised the job I was doing. I did not enjoy that at all. That always helps. Yeah. If anything, there were probably more push factors than pull factor, I think because I just did not enjoy what I was doing sort of thing. And you know, I've been working towards that for a long time, you know.

So yeah, it got to August next year, 2022 and then it becomes, you know, a viable option. It stayed stable for a few months of earning quite nice. I thought, okay, let's just make the jump. Let's do it now. The word my mentality was the worst case scenario is I have to get an actual job again. And if that's the worst thing that can happen, it's not that bad. So, yeah, made the jump and then never looked back. Since then it's just gone from strength to strength.

Grown massively since then and yeah, it's been the best decision I ever made. That's awesome. So like financially now, at this stage, looking at your year ahead, like, what's your, what's your target? Where are you trying to get this to from? Yeah, so turnover income standpoint. Yeah, this, this financial year, April to March, the target is a hundred thousand pounds in revenue. You know, if we can do that, that would be insane.

You know, I don't know what else I would be doing that would earn me near that sort of money sort of thing. So I'm very fortunate that I've been able to, you know, go on this journey and grow that sort of stuff. And that's at age 27, aiming to be on a six figure turnover from a game you love and would play anyway. Yeah, exactly, exactly. It is bonkers. Editing videos, which you love to do anyway. 100%. It's, that's amazing. Is a complete dream come true.

Like I said at the start, you know, I've got to pinch myself sometimes that I, I feel like I'm cheating at life. You know, I'm. And it won't last forever. Like I say, I have to run myself all the time. It won't last forever. You know, let's not get too high on it. Yeah. But also, you know, don't get too low thinking about, you know, it's going to end at some point.

You know, it's a good thing, but it's going to end at some point because, you know, then you've been on that whole journey and, you know, I've grown so much as a person and done so much and have been so fortunate to do it so. And honestly, the. The skills you're picking up on this, like, you, you are talking in a language that is of business consultancy, that is of like business leadership. The way you analyze your channel, the way you've broken down. Look, you're going to start here.

Here's how long we're going to have to prove the concept and don't worry about the feedback as long as there's something coming in. And then here's how we get to the next scale. And like all the way you've broken it down, the way you look at it, the way you analyze it. I know from the outside people are just hearing YouTube talk, but if you really listen to what Tom's saying, this is business talk of how you take any idea from concept to viable to scale, and it's awesome.

So I have no doubt, like, even when this does dry out for you, that you'll just shift gears and do the same thing again somewhere else because you've got it. Which is. Which is absolutely awesome. I hope so. You know, there's always that worry of what comes next sort of thing. But again, like, you know, at the moment, things aren't showing any signs of slowing down, so it's not like I'm actively thinking about, you know, what comes next. Yeah. And so amazing.

You know, I work it out when it comes to that point. But yeah, I think that the skills I've picked up is, you know, I'm doing all sorts of stuff in terms of, you know, production and business and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, at some point, someone's got to find that valuable somewhere down the line. So a hundred percent, that's amazing. And you got real clear that, that clarity.

There's crystal clear that I love of, like, here's what I'm good at, here's what I'm okay at, here's what I could be great at. But I don't know if the sacrifice is worth it for that. Then you find the thing. I like it, I love it. I know there's a big sacrifice to get good enough, but it's worth making, so I'm gonna go on that journey. And now some of the things you're doing are awesome. So as we all know Southgate has retired from the England job now, right?

He's let it go and we need a replacement now. Unless between now and the time this podcast is launched, that place is filled. I think. I think the problem's already been solved. Because you've had the call, right? You are ready to manage England. I have had the call to manage England, although only virtually. So maybe, maybe if I do well at this, this World cup tournament, I'll be able to go on and take the actual job.

But, yeah, so E8 used to make a game called FIFA and then they lost the FIFA license, so it's now called eafc and FIFA had their own esports division called FIFA E. And so they used to run tournaments played on FIFA, the video game, for years and years and years. But since that partnership broke, they're now venturing into other games. So I think they do a lot with Rocket League, for example, but they're also starting to do some stuff with football manager.

And so there's a FIFA E Football Manager World cup coming up, which very fortunately I'm taking part in.

So a friend of mine who also makes content is called Jack. Weirdly, bizarrely, we went to the exact same school, didn't know Itchill at school because he was a few years above me, but weirdly, he went to the same school, grew up locally sort of stuff. So that was really bizarre. And we found that out randomly on a discord call one night. But he said, by the way, Tom, I've just had this, this call from, from the English Football Association.

They want me to be the manager for this upcoming FIFA E World cup, but I need an assistant manager. Do you want to be my assistant manager? So immediately I was like, yes, get me involved in that. I would love to. So as we record this next week, we're in Liverpool all week to take part in this Football Manager World cup against, I think it's 16 other countries potentially, who have all picked people from their countries to represent, which is hilarious in a way.

And as we, as we record this tomorrow, we're going down to Wembley for a photo shoot to announce the managers of England, which is hilarious. So, yeah, there's some wacky stuff that can come out from this. That is just awesome, Tom, honestly, thank you so much for your time. This has been so insightful. To hear the journey, see the mind that is behind such a successful channel that this is not luck at all. This is work and clarity and confidence and communication. It's beautiful.

People need to go and subscribe. You need to go to YouTube.com tomf and on Twitter it's Tom FM/YT. Get connected. Go and watch some of these videos and go and follow the journey to see if England can win the World cup with Tom. I'll do my best. I'll try and bring it home. Oh, it's amazing. Thank you so much for your time. This has been really insightful. We really appreciate it. And keep going out there and keep performing, man. We love to see it and look forward to seeing where it goes.

No, thank you. It's been a pleasure to be on here. Thanks for chatting. Legend.