Introducing AI in Your Church

>> Mercedes: Foreign.

Welcome to episode six of the AI

Church Toolkit podcast. This is the

podcast where we empower church leaders with tools for

faithful ministry in the digital age. I'm

Mercedes. >> Peter: And I'm Peter. Together we explore how faith and

technology intersect, guided by the baptismal covenant. >> Mercedes: And today we'll be taking a slightly different

approach as we have a, uh, discussion about how we've managed the changes

around AI, uh, within our congregations. So we'll have

some open question and answer and

exploring processes about each of our

experiences within our churches and in our

communities. >> Peter: And Mercedes, you led a very intentional process with

your own congregation, which I admire deeply. And

so we're really going to focus a lot on that experience of yours today. Are you ready to dive in? >> Mercedes: Let's go. >> Peter: All right, so, uh, why don't you start by talking us, uh, through an overview of the change process that you experienced with your congregation and then I'll have some questions for you and we can discuss, uh, it further in a bit. >> Mercedes: Okay. So I'm going to kind of start with, uh, a high level overview as I have explored

AI in general. And I do think it's probably helpful at this point to say that, uh, because of my previous career in technology, that implementing systems, um, software, uh, business processes, business process improvement is kind of, uh, part of my core skill set. And so I was very intentional about approaching this with my church. You know, when all the news hype came out in 2023, uh, I did some initial experimenting with AI on my own. Uh, but that was mostly just playing around

with, uh, some of the features. I avoided the sermon writing thing because there was so much chatter about that. But I did attend the first Try Tank webinar, uh, on the use of AI to generate ideas for your church around context. And, uh, I did appreciate that, uh, Father Lorenzo included panelists from BTS that discussed the potential use in sermons. And at that time, you know, the focus was, well, to get away from the blank page, uh, for brainstorming, for

outlining ideas. Um, but when I talk to my own peers, I heard a lot of pushback. There was Discomfort around using AI in 2024. So last summer, right before we met, I did bring it up with the Vestry, uh, as I was planning on attending the AI summit, ah, which was in August last year. And so I also mentioned it in the announcement at that time, since I'd be traveling and out of the office, uh, that we would. I was just, I was going to the summit to learn more about AI.

And then after the Summit, my use increased significantly. I learned quite a bit there. It's like, oh, oh, well, this is cool. And so I began, uh, to revisit it at Vestry. I, uh, mention it at announcements. Probably about once a month. We have continued discussion, uh, at Vestry with very specific examples. I've also held an open forum between the services for discussion of concerns and

feedback. And that worked really well because a professor from our local college who is on their AI Ethics committee, uh, is a member of the church and also came and played devil's, uh, advocate. And then, uh, now we're, uh, actually introducing an AI Responsible use policy, uh, with, uh, to start to put what we're thinking down on paper

to manage the expectations. And I should mention that after the summit, once I started exploring it for sermon use, I, uh, was transparent, uh, in my announcements to say that, uh, at times I was using AI for that, uh, so that folks would be able and invited as much conversation or feedback, uh, as people wanted to provide. So we are right there at that edge. I'm thinking at the next Vestry meeting, we'll probably finalize the responsible use policy.

>> Peter: Great. Okay. That's. That's exciting. Um, it's funny. Policies, uh, can be a bit of a drag. But also they're so helpful if you just have clarity and transparency about, uh, what the policy is and everybody knows and we're all on the same page. So do you want to go back and talk a bit more about how you introduced the idea of using AI to your parish and what language or framing you found to be most helpful with them?

>> Mercedes: Yes, and I actually kind of fell into it because I had reached out to Father Lorenzo Labrija at Try Tank about some other technology questions, and he invited me to the summit at that point. And so I used that to frame as kind of like in a restaurant. They call it a soft opening that, uh, when you open for a few days, unofficially, before your grand opening. And attending the AI Summit gave me kind of a soft opening opportunity to say, this is

going on. It's being sponsored by an Episcopal organization, and, um, I am going to learn about it and see what's out there, uh, and specifically talking about with my congregation as we navigate decline, uh, what, uh, AI may or may not be able to help with, uh, either in cost savings or, uh, new ideas or wherever it would go. So that was kind of my opportunity to initially start the conversation with the sense that I was going to a legitimate source to learn about it.

>> Peter: Sure. Yeah. Soft openings are great because Then you can sort of test the water. I imagine you get a little bit of a sense of, okay, you know, this is the, uh, temperature in the room about this. This issue in my context. And have, uh, some initial conversations. >> Mercedes: Yeah. >> Peter: Um, so about these, uh, initial conversations and reactions, were there any ones that surprised you, either in a positive or a negative way?

>> Mercedes: Yes, actually, when I mentioned it to Vestry, uh, that I'd like to go on this trip, uh, and that I asked first, what do you all know about AI and what concerns do you have? And they were like, we're not worried about AI. Why? Well, what have you heard in the news? And somebody said, I guess I'd be a little worried about privacy concerns. And I said, okay, what about, um, in the church? And they're like. To be honest, I think, uh, sometimes as clergy, we are.

We. We are getting information that we don't realize that the congregations don't see as often as we do. So until I said, well, what do y'all think about AI and sermon writing? Because I hear a lot about that. They were like, I don't know. I. I guess don't plagiarize. How does that work? What does it do? And so really the biggest part of it was there was a complete lack of knowledge and information. Ah. Because they just hadn't had a reason to explore it before.

>> Peter: Sure. Wow. Okay. Yeah. >> Mercedes: Um, how did your first chat go? >> Peter: Oh, man. Um, it was a bit different. I, uh, definitely experienced some pushback. And that's interesting. You know, every context is going to be different. And I love that you, despite, uh, having, you know, this openness to it, you, uh, still went through the whole intentional process, uh, that you did.

Uh, we talked about, um, but, yeah, so in my own experience, there are a variety of opinions and people have a lot of, uh, ethical and moral questions about using generative AI, many of which we've talked about on this podcast already. Um, in a general sense, uh, there were two parishioners I can think of who were, uh, outspoken about it. One maintained that AI use should be disclosed whenever it's been used. And I, like, want to honor that and also understand that it's complicated, um,

because, you know, there's. Whenever I'm using generative AI, it's not just like the AI creates a finished product on its own. There's always this back and forth. Um, and so the thing that has, uh, worked for me is to say, uh, that, like, I'm maintaining full responsibility for whatever I say or share or write, whether it's with assistance from AI or not. And, you know, I want people to know that they're talking to me and people, uh, whether I, you know, used an

AI to help me write an email or not, they're. They're talking to me and constantly giving the disclaimer. My concern would be that it would be misleading because people would, you know, if they don't have familiar familiarity with AI, they might be led to think that this is the AI talking, not Peter. Can I really trust this? When in fact it's know, my job to retain, uh, full responsibility. And. And we'll talk about that more at a later question. But.

So that was one. One parishioner and another parishioner maintained that AI shouldn't be used at all. I, uh, think for a variety of reasons. And I've, you know, had this discussion several, uh, times with various, uh, folks and I, in this, you know, mostly with people who are not members of my congregation. Um, I've told this particular parishioner I'd be glad to talk about it in detail. And they haven't followed up. So obviously there's more work

to be done there. And I think, uh, you've led a more thorough process, which is why we're focused primarily on your experience. But, um, in my own context, I've talked with my rector and we decided, uh, to not make a policy, uh, because really, it's just I'm the one, uh, in my context who is using generative AI. And uh, I'm trying to be faithful and, um, ethical in my youth and exploring this and sharing obviously what we're learning with others. And if we were a larger team where

multiple people were going to be. Use it then, yet. Using it then, yeah, we should have that transparency and clarity. Um, and since it's just me, I guess I try to maintain that within myself, uh, and share with others. But, um, yeah, that's been my experience. Uh, so, Mercedes, I'm curious. Um, did you name your use of AI from the pulpit or other public settings? And, uh, how did you navigate that decision? >> Mercedes: Um, I just said it. I'm

like, I'm going to a conference. I'm going to learn about AI. And oh, by the way, it kind of does some cool stuff. Uh, I have played with it. It writes really lousy sermons, but it does kind of. It help with revising. And that tends to be the way I present things. My, uh. But that. That's also my style. Um, but I, you know, as I was just thinking about this, I had a funny thought because so Last week I sat down and wrote my sermon, um, from my

outline. And then I used the GPT to suggest uh, slight revisions just to any cleanup it saw. And the revisions were so slight that I, I uh, had the two of them and I'm going sentence by sentence so I pulled my 11 year old daughter in, said Sydney, you read one while I read the other one. And I tell you what, um, it was funny because she understood tone and context remarkably well. I was surprised and uh, made probably more suggested edits than the AI that were good edits.

And so I found myself actually talking last week more about the fact that my daughter helped me write my sermon and AI help me revise it. So, um, but you know that, that is kind of a thing. I, I say that in jest, but also in seriousness. Uh, early on my husband would review my sermons for me, uh, before, uh, just to help me catch things or perspectives that I might miss. And then uh, some people I know have writing partners, uh, that they swap sermons so that they can

help. Uh, I'm part of uh, backstory preaching, which big shout out to that program, uh, because I love it. And so we work together in terms of outlining and ideas, uh, to keep our sermons tight. And I, I'm not expected to disclose all of those resources on a regular basis. And so I, you know, somewhere in there is kind of like really fine tuning what it is that is uh, making us feel the need if, if it's the same level of editing that that AI is

different. Taking full responsibility for what I put down on the page as you have mentioned, and being responsible to make sure that it's not making things up and, and that it's not. That we're not plagiarizing. >> Peter: Sure, yeah, yeah. Definitely have to be mindful of that. Um, and I, you know, in my own experience I, I preached about generative AI in like in general as a sort of the focus of a, of a sermon. And in that sermon declare, disclose that.

Yeah, I used AI use AI. I use it to help me write their sermon etc, and people found that funny. Um, and yeah, so I think, you know, I made sure that people know and acknowledge my own, uh, use. But. And especially you know, if someone new comes and ask me a question about how do you know, how do you uh, come up with your sermons or

how do you use AI et cetera. I'm m. Transparent about all that, but um, but yeah, just making sure that generally it's known but I don't feel the need to like say every Time, or especially like each, you know, which words came from AI versus my own brain. Like what? I don't know how that would even work. Um, but. Okay, so here's a more pointed question. Is using AI cheating? How would you respond?

>> Mercedes: I do not believe so. Uh, I do feel like I have, uh, had people indirectly charge me with that, uh, which is an awkward conversation. I think it's a evolution of, uh, the technology. Uh, and as somebody that is fairly deep in technology, anyway, it feels like a next, uh, step to me. A big next step, but it's still there. And, um, I keep thinking about the fact that we have commentaries and writing guides and thesauria and um, uh, podcasts that are

talking about ideas. And there's Grammarly is already there, helping to correct the text as it goes. >> Peter: And, and that's generative AI too, by the way. And most people don't know that. >> Mercedes: Right, right. And so, uh, it feels to me my use is in line with how I use all those other tools. I am still doing the work. Uh, I'm still the priest. It's my work and prayer at the intersection of my context and my congregation that drives and guides where the AI is

going. So it's just another way of resourcing information more quickly right now. How about you? >> Peter: Well, yeah, I just think the Grammarly example is a really great one, um, because they, uh, yeah, that's a tool that people often accept as completely valid, uh, even if they think that generative AI might not be. And not realizing that that is generative

AI. Similarly, you know that whenever, uh, you're composing something in an email or in a word processor these days, there's that the word processor will try to complete the sentence for you and you can just press tab to autocomplete. Um, and you know, that's, that's also generative AI, and I think people don't realize that. So it's like it's impossible to, you know, disclose every single time. But. But yeah, having some sort of generative general disclosure is helpful. So people know.

>> Mercedes: Wait, wait, before we go on, I want to come back to something on this one. Um, because again, we tend to focus on the sermon writing. And I'll be quite honest, uh, to me, the sermon writing has become a red herring. It is. I'm barely using it, uh, for the sermon writing side of it. Uh, I, you know, using it for policies and other, uh, resources, uh, to get things done around the church. I, uh, know policies are boring.

But when I get. I think we've said this in a previous episode, but I have to reiterate it. When we have to sit down to write a business document for the church, the first step is almost always to go out and search for templates and, or other churches business document of whatever kind it is, from bylaws to policies. You know, all of this is, uh, we go borrow somebody else's and we revise

it. Uh, and depending on what it is, most of the time, if it's a business document, somebody else wrote it a long time ago and we just keep revising it now. Caveat, you know, if somebody has written a liturgy and we're taking that in and revising it, then we do credit that work. But for the, for the business documents and things like that, I mean, is it cheating? We've never called it cheating to go search for all of those sample templates and other church policies that are publicly

accessible. So it doesn't feel like cheating to get uh, AI to do that search and compile that information for me. >> Peter: Yeah, so really I just think we need to take full responsibility for whatever we put out into the world. Um, but yeah, uh, there are a variety of things we're always copying and learning from and adapting a metaphor that I love that you know about, but I'll share. Uh, now is

Tesla full self driving mode? Um, I don't have one myself, but I learned about this when I rode in a Tesla for the first time about six months ago. You, you, you have to keep your hands on the wheel. Uh, but the car will do all the driving for you. And the person legally responsible if the car makes a mistake is the driver. So you know, you're, you're the driver in every way of, uh, interpreting what that means, except you're not physically doing the

motions. The car is doing it for you. And so if you're doing your job ethically and faithfully, getting from A to B, whether that's, you know, driving from place to A to B, or in a work, um, process or whatever it may be, um, there it's uh, important to, you know, keep that mindset of this is my own responsibility. Uh, how could you know, keeping still doing your work ethically and

faithfully. Um, and we have this strange capitalist mindset I think about know, knowledge work, where we believe it has to be hard for it to be valuable. But that doesn't really seem healthy to me. >> Mercedes: No. >> Peter: And I'm actually really hopeful that uh, we can maybe break out of that. Um, and you know, I, I think that's what this podcast is all about. It's,

uh. We're, uh, trying to figure out how to faithfully, ethically, and and hopefully healthily engage, uh, with this technology. >> Mercedes: Right. I mean, it goes back to the old saying, we. Why do we reinvent the wheel if what exists serves our needs? Uh, and I think, uh, in a lot of organizations, you do see that, um, understanding that repetition, uh, of work is okay. It's fine if it gets the job done. >> Peter: Sure. All right. Another pointed question for you.

Does AI written prayer count as prayer? >> Mercedes: Well, I have used it, and, uh. I've had, like, good, uh, outputs and bad outputs. Um, all of them have been reviewed by me, and all of them have been disclosed when I did use them. And I find that, uh, they. It can do a good job, especially with the Episcopal collect, since we're so formulaic anyway. >> Peter: Right. >> Mercedes: Um, and to cover topics that, uh, were thought of after 1979 and the last BCP. Uh,

so I have used it. I haven't recently. I did actually do something, uh, a little bit fun. Uh, actually, it was our Inquirers class where I had it outline the class. I had to go in and do a fair number of revisions, but I asked it to pair up an opening and closing prayer for each session from the bcp, and it did a lousy job of that. And so one of the things we were doing as we. >> Peter: I'm curious. We're using chatgpt or it was

chatgpt. Okay. Because. Because I imagine Ask Kathy would be really good at that. >> Mercedes: I. I think I did an earlier version with Ask Kathy, and then I lost track of that one. And so it was the ChatGPT one. And so, uh, the funny thing was, so we just, uh, going into the Inquirers class, I just said, okay, we're gonna. I need y'all to tell me what doesn't make sense here, because AI helped write this, and, uh, I'm kind of curious to see what your feedback is. And so

we had. We had mismatched page numbers and some prayers that didn't match the topics. But it was. It was a way. Yeah, it was a. It was a way of adding a little bit of fun, uh, to the class as we went along. How about you? >> Peter: Well, yeah, I. I guess, uh, when I'm thinking about prayer, there are two aspects to it. You know, there's the, uh. Or I would say any written prayer is prayed twice. Once by the person who wrote it and then again by the people who read it. Ah. And, you know,

both of those are completely valid. Uh, but even with something as. As important as prayer, sometimes in the life of a rector or parish priest or whatever, um, you know, you just need a prayer to share with your congregation for a specific moment. And so the means of getting there are less important as a spiritual practice than the end of having something to pray in the moment with your congregation. Uh, I sort of think of it a little

bit as a pilgrimage. Is the process of writing this prayer going to be a pilgrimage for you? If so, then write it yourself. But if you need to just have something, um, then you might not be prayerful in the act of writing it, um, but you can be prayerful in the act of reading it. And another way I think of it again, back to the car metaphor. You know, the difference of walking versus driving a car. Uh, you're trying to get from point A to point B. The car will get you there faster, but sometimes

it's worth it to walk, you know, back to. Again, pilgrimage. Uh, walking is inherently good. It gets you from point A to point B. But also it's, um, uh, a pleasurable, m. Spiritual, meaningful experience. Often when we choose to do so intentionally. Um, um. And so, yeah, discern what, you know, is this a time where I want to walk there or do I want to drive there? Uh, and I think that's a, uh, uh, an apt metaphor for using generative AI. >> Mercedes: I. You know, I just had a

example pop into my head beyond prayer a little bit. Well, I mean, it's prayer. It's a short liturgy. Several years ago, I got a call from, uh, the daughter of a long time. I mean, lifelong Episcopalian, because that afternoon she was transitioning from her home into an assisted living. And of course, that was a difficult transition. And so the daughter was like, it seems like we should have a little liturgy that we could do. For the last time, she locks the door and makes this transition.

And I looked everywhere and couldn't find, uh, I found things around it, but not exactly what we needed. So we ended up with a couple of prayers. But, you know, I would have loved in that moment to have been able to resource, but I had no time to go find them and write because to write a liturgy like that does take, uh, it is a prayerful process. And I only had a couple hours, but it would have meant so much to her to really be able to walk through, uh, a liturgy like that in that moment. So it.

>> Peter: Yeah. >> Mercedes: Opportunities. >> Peter: Yes. I used your discernment. How do you decide how frequently to disclose AI use? I know we've talked about this A bit already. So maybe we'll make this one quick. >> Mercedes: Yeah, Um, I think for the most part it has uh, happened with the changes as I am finding new ways to use it. Uh, then I'm letting them know where it might be, have supported my

work. So that, that's mostly um, so as I said, it's about once a month that I will mention it in some way or another. And right now it's a regular topic on our best street meetings. Uh, so we're talking about it monthly. >> Peter: Great. And yeah, um, again I believe that uh, AI users should take full responsibility for their output and um, make general disclosures.

But um, the reason I don't do every time is because, you know, um, usually I find that most people think something is either AI made or human made, when in fact it's not a binary but more of a spectrum. You know, anything I share with the public isn't going to be made solely by AI, but rather involves a creative back and forth between myself and the generative AI tool. So it's really more like made with a human augmented by AI.

Um, but I think the public awareness and discourse isn't to the level where most people understand what that means. >> Mercedes: And you know, that brings us. I'm going to jump on the next question about that because that's where I get the hooked. Uh, I'm realizing how much people don't understand of what can be done with AI. And I say that because in the last couple of weeks I've sat down and done some one on ones with people and once they actually see the process they're like, oh,

will you share that with me? Uh, I want to try that again. And the big one in our church was, I've mentioned it before, but using it to process and create a summary report of our SWOT analysis from our, of all the SWOT reports from our

strategic planning. And once uh, they saw that it looked like a report and that our strategic planning consultant recognized and agreed with the findings, that that just made a huge difference because I, I don't know what they're imagining I'm doing with it when they are concerned. But as soon as you actually sit down or I sit down and say this is what I do, they're like, well, that makes sense that there's nothing

wrong with that. And so that, that's been something, you know, uh, trying to navigate, uh, how people are feeling about it. Uh, is, is interesting when I don't realize or I don't know exactly what their knowledge level is. Um, but Uh, I am trying to be. Well, I am very open to the concerns and keeping track of it and listening. As, uh, I mentioned earlier, we have an open rectors forum, and so everybody could express. We had really good discussion around

that. And, you know, they brought up some concerns that I felt like, needed to be addressed sooner rather than later, like the protection of human creatives and making sure they're compensated. We talked about the environmental impact, as we have in previous, uh, conversations. Uh, we, uh, have a few episodes here. Yep. And then, uh, the impact on youth. But what I heard clearly and is, uh, being reflected in our responsible use policy is the concern about the privacy

of, uh, personal information. So that's not an area that we will be exploring. And so that is, I think it's just important to listen and to be open to the fact that, uh, they may have read something they probably have that I haven't had a chance to get to yet. But I just don't know sometimes if they have actually sat down and played with it either. Well, well.

>> Peter: So, yeah, our next question was, and you've talked a bit about this, uh, so how do you build trust with your parishioners around something as unfamiliar and potentially controversial as AI? And for me, you know, the answer, uh, boiled down to its essence is just, uh, be transparent and invite conversation. And, you know, you, uh, respond pastorally to wherever that conversation leads. >> Mercedes: So I'm going to give, like, a not quite pastoral

example. Well, it's a. It's a friend of mine who's an artist, uh, said, I tried AI and it just didn't do what I wanted it to do. I said, well, what did you want it to do? Uh, and y'all will probably have to look this up. But she said, I needed it to produce a list of nouns and verbs and, uh, descriptions or adjectives as prompts for a particular art project. And, uh, I didn't like what it produced. And I said, what kind of art project was it? She said, it's called an Exquisite Corpse.

So I opened up ChatGPT and said, Describe an exquisite corpse project, uh, to me. And it did. And then I said, create the prompts for an exquisite. And it immediately did that. Uh, and it was perfect. That was all we had to do was produce the context, provide the context. And then she was like, well, that's exactly what I wanted it to do. So that again, is that we've said it over and over again. Provide the context first, and then it will, you know, provide some interesting information.

>> Peter: Sure, yeah. Um, so have you Ever had to adjust course based on feedback from your congregation? >> Mercedes: I would say not specifically, uh, on any particular timeline, because it's kind of just evolving as it goes. But I always feel like, uh, in change management in any organization, but especially a church, part of the process is listening and then giving time for ideas to spread within the congregation and for people to discuss and process and before you assess

when to take a next step. So that's just kind of part of integrated and how we change things in churches. >> Peter: Yeah. M. And I've shared some things about this already, but I think the only, uh, further thing I want to share is, you know, we're in this period of trial and error. It's a new technology, and people are figuring out, uh, how to make it, use how m. How to make it useful and

how to use it well. And I think the main adjustments I've had to make have just been how I've learned to use these tools better and fix their mist and, you know, take better responsibility for them as a user of this technology. Um, I want to make sure that I, uh, you know, I'm understanding better that how I can take full responsibility for the output that I'm putting out there. So how does your theology of the Holy Spirit shape your understanding, understanding of collaboration with AI tools?

>> Mercedes: Uh, I. I'm going to lean into a saying I heard a few years ago that I love and, uh, I share often now, which is I want to be open to being surprised by the Holy Spirit, and I associate the Holy Spirit with change and discernment. And so, uh, given my experience with technology, again, it kind of feels like that the Holy Spirit sometimes might throw

things at me technology wise. Just like, uh, sometimes it's, uh, a cat lost in a parking lot that my husband told me not to pick up. >> Peter: There's a story there for sure. Um, yeah, so we've talked about discernment, especially in episode two. Uh, as long as we're using these tools faithfully and ethically, the Spirit works through us regardless of what tools we're using. Um, so,

yeah, I would just say keep discerning. Keep using these tools well, and the Spirit will be there, whether you're using an AI tool or social media algorithms or word processors or text messages or pencil and paper. Whatever tools you use, the Spirit can work through us as we use them. So what would you say, Mercedes, to a church leader who feels curious about A.I. but, uh, is afraid to bring it up with their vestry or congregation?

>> Mercedes: Well, you know, there's the standard, uh, approach of church management in terms of starting with key lay leaders, uh, to have one on one conversations, uh, and get, and take the temperature of your organization before you do a presentation. And I think, uh, that's always an important part of change management.

But I think after my experience over the last few weeks, um, I would be ready, uh, with some examples because again, every time I have actually shown an example of what I provide and what AI responds and how we shape something together, or even just here's the context, here's the question, and, oh, look, here's some information that has changed minds very quickly. So, uh, you know, but a lot of it is going to be, uh, don't take it personally if folks are criticizing AI, they're

criticizing AI, not us. Um, and, uh, also continue to research and be open and honest about acknowledging the risks, uh, and the concerns and uh, having a willingness to adapt the strategy or a policy to meet those risks and concerns. >> Peter: Sure, yeah. And I would just add, you know, if you're thinking about bringing this up with your congregation, play around with it, uh, get a solid understanding of how generative AI can be useful and think deeply about its ethical and faithful

use. Um, of course that's what we're trying to do here on this podcast. So keep listening. And uh, it's really, you know, it is a contentious topic, and it's a bit too much of a contentious topic to bring up without some preparation. And that involves talking to your congregation in one on ones, but also having a deeper understanding of how the technology actually works.

So when you can, when you feel that you can stand on somewhat solid ground, whatever that looks like in your context, and still listen deeply to the concerns of your parishioners, whatever they may have, that's when you can engage in a helpful congregation conversation with your congregation. >> Mercedes: Absolutely. Because, uh, again, when we said this many times, it is ultimately about what it's doing, uh, to help us with human, uh, relationships, not to undermine them

or to bypass them. So, uh, we're not taking that part of change out of the process. We still need to, uh, talk to humans and work with humans and listen and be, uh, and be attentive to their concerns. >> Peter: All right, so shall we wrap it up with the baptismal covenant? >> Mercedes: Absolutely. I'll take a little turn here on the question asking. >> Peter: Okay.

>> Mercedes: All right. What, uh, do you think about continuing in the apostles teaching and fellowship and in the breaking of the bread and in the prayers? >> Peter: Well, I guess I just think that helping, um, your community navigate this change that we're all going through, uh, as generative AI transforms the world around us, also helps them throughout the rest of their lives and

living, uh, into the modern world. And how great could that be if churches are a place that serve, um, their communities in, uh, navigating this transition. So there's a lot of teaching that goes on there, but also a, ah, teaching about how to use this faithfully and well. Any disruption will lead to pain. Um, and, and that's a, a hard fact of life. And so how can we minimize pain? How can we care for those who are experiencing that

pain? Um, you know, uh, that's, that's what the church is there for. >> Mercedes: Absolutely. I think I would just add to that that, uh, we, we, we, we say all the time that, uh, worship is not necessarily, necessarily what happens in the nave of the sanctuary, but how it prepares us to go out into the world to serve our ministry. And we can't control the pace of change in society. It is getting, uh, more

complex every day. And I hate to discard a potential technology that could help us better engage, uh, in ministry and evangelism and connecting with people where they are. Okay, next up, will you persevere in resisting evil and whenever you fall into sin, repent and return to the Lord? >> Peter: Yeah, I mean, uh, this is a big shift we're all going through, so you have to navigate it transparently and pastorally. And, uh, we're all going to make mistakes. I've made mistakes. I've, you

know, in. Not in any big ways, but, um, there are times where I know I've failed, um, to check, you know, everything it put out and realized there was a mistake in email or something. And, and taking responsibility for that, taking a pastoral approach to whatever the consequences might be. And yeah, um, I think transparency and care for others is how we can, um, best resist evil in this case.

>> Mercedes: Absolutely. And then, you know, we've said before it's an evolving technology, so we recognize that more information is coming out every day. And sometimes we're going to find ourselves in a place where what we're doing might not have been the best idea. So the best we can do, uh, is when we know better, do better. Okay. Uh, will you proclaim by word and example the good news of God in Christ?

>> Peter: Yeah. And we've talked about how AI can be a tool that helps us serve that purpose. But in regards to, you know, understanding it, ah, theologically and communally, like, we have to be really clear that, you know, AI will not save us. Ah, it is, it is a tool. Uh, there Is no known tool that can. Will save us from who we are as human beings. But AI can help us to do God's work in the world. And you know, uh, God gives us

tools all the time. And I'm excited to see, see and continue learning about what the Holy Spirit is up to and the creation of new tools all the time. >> Mercedes: Absolutely. Uh, I've always found that my call is at the intersection of technology and ministry. And in particular right now, um, I see opportunity with AI for improving the things that we do more in the quote unquote, running the church side of, um, side of things. Better administration, better communications,

new, um, ways to evangelize. I, uh, just think there's some great opportunities there. Will you strive for justice and peace? Did I skip one? I did. Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as yourself? How can I miss the greatest commandment? >> Peter: Right. But I mean, it is great and it's are relatively simple. I think transparency is care. And you know, um, having transparency, having pastoral care for folks who are navigating this transition with us, um, it

really boils down to that. And then. Yeah, for that last one, um, do you have more things to say? Well, for either of those. >> Mercedes: Ah, well, I mean, if you're not willing to be authentic about saying that you're doing it, then you might not want to be doing it. That, you know, that's the transparency. >> Peter: Yeah, sure. Yeah. >> Mercedes: Oh. Will you, Will you strive for justice and peace among all people and respect the dignity of every human being?

>> Peter: Yeah. I don't think I have anything more to say than all the things we've already said there. What about you? >> Mercedes: I would only add that, uh, as with all change, uh, there is going to be concerns and anxiety and um. I was actually talking to somebody earlier today and uh, we were reflecting on the fact that that comes from a place of love. People get, uh, anxious about change because they love their church, they love the traditions, they love the worship,

they love the community. And uh, I think it's important for us just to remember and reframe that we're all working towards community, uh, here. >> Peter: Right. I'll actually add one more thing that I just thought of that I should make more clear. I talked about how disruption brings pain. And there, you know, any, any big technological disruption is going to create the loss of jobs. And we've seen that with social media and the way that, you know, um, communications, uh, institutions like

journalism have. Have been so, uh, heavily impacted by that. You know, we don't know the full replication repercussions of what generative AI is going to have. But artists are definitely feeling the pain. And I think there is a. There's a very important role in the church of, you know, caring for people who are experiencing that pain. And I just want to underline, uh, that thing that I already said before. Yeah. >> Mercedes: When it comes to justice and peace, I think. Yeah. That. That's.

That's really important. Thank you. >> Peter: Yeah. >> Mercedes: Okay, well, we've come to the end here, so here's the takeaway. Um, if you're going to work with AI, we recommend starting to communicate early and often. Uh, and be transparent with your congregation. Uh, if I can borrow an old phrase. Ah. From church communications, uh, figure out how to say it at least three times in three different ways.

Uh, it is helpful. Uh, but if you did find this helpful, uh, we hope that you will share it and leave a review. And don't forget to subscribe to aichurch. >> Peter: Toolkit as, uh, always some listener homework. Think about your own organization, where you work. Do you need to have some transparent conversations with leaders in your congregation about using generative AI? And could you use this opportunity to support them in their own journey of learning to use

generative AI? So reflect on all of that. >> Mercedes: All right, thank you for joining us for episode six of the AI Church Toolkit podcast. We are grateful to the Try Tank Research Institute for making this podcast possible. >> Peter: And remember, AI is a tool, but our mission remains rooted in faith and community. See you next time. >> Mercedes: Sa.