Hello, everybody. This is David Goldsmith, and welcome to the Age of Infinite, a Project Moon Hut podcast series. We have an incredible guest on the line who's going to be talking about space is magic. You can do nothing, and amazing things can happen. His name is Yossi Yamin. He's director of SpacePharma, a really amazing startup out of Israel. How are you, Yossi? Hi. Good morning, David.
I'm very happy to be online with you and to describe the fascinating magical system that we have now in orbit. Fantastic. So I'm assuming that you've put together an outline for me. So can you give me the bullet points we're going to be covering? Sure. Those will be we start with the crystals protein crystallization in orbit, how we create new shapes and new structures from the same compound that we have here on NERF.
The second one will be a peptide self assembly, which is something unique that we can create kind of eugrony folded amino acids into nice structures as well. And then I will describe some of neuron extension as well as axons.
But first, let me tell you that we need to discuss the extreme conditions of all this because right now, as you're aware of, we have many satellites orbiting Earth, more than a few 1,000, and those providing mostly communication, geo positioning, where to go, how to do it, how long it's going to take to me, and of course, Earth observation for day to day needs.
But taking into consideration that those satellites used to be big, still big, heavy, huge by size compared to our miniaturized laboratory, which is 3U size. And I will describe soon what it is, the 3U size by new space dimension. The extreme conditions that we are now in are providing the environment for our creation, for our medical outcomes. And this is what I would be very happy to discuss with Houston.
So the 3U size is only 30 by 10 by 10 centimeters or 8 by 4 on 4 inches It's less than £5 by weight and comparable to labware that currently exists on Earth.
For example, people who are addressing white jackets, moving parts from one place to another, using hoods, using microscopes, using tables, using chairs, and, of course, dealing with the centrifuge and all other big lovers are now dealing with miniaturized like LEGO parts, delicate, liquid handling chips, that within those, we can install fascinating world of experience. It can start with bacterias, go to liquid, and, of course, add some samples of life science.
So what you're saying is that you've got satellites up in space that and I'll looks great, but for people who are listening, there is something called a CubeSat. And a CubeSat is a technology that's come about over the past few decades where we've taken satellites that used to be a $100,000,000 and the size of 3 people tall and, 2 people wide laying flat. And now what we've done is we've re reduced them down to a size which is defined a cubesat as a 10 by 10 by 10 centimeter structure.
And you've taken it, and you've created a lab within a CubeSat using that same tech, bringing it down to 100 of 1,000 of dollars versus 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of dollars. And you've created a lab within there that you've put up into space. Absolutely. This is the story. It's a shoebox size or half a shoe, shoebox size or big, meal cartoon size that's now in orbit. And you're absolutely right. It cost us less than before, much less than before.
I think it can even be dramatically inexpensive compared to the cost of on Earth lab. And this is, I think, the game changer that SpacePharma is providing right now using our DITO miniaturized laboratory in orbit in a cubesat that can survive those extreme conditions we have right now, actually, tomorrow. So tomorrow, within 3 days, we're going to have we're going to celebrate 2 years of our DTO-two in orbit, still operating, providing data.
And this I think it's amazing, because now as we are talking, you can pick up your smartphone and command and control directly your experiments, your execution, your research within the CubeSat.
And that means that you are holding power in your fingers like you were NASA or a Digital Space Agency that used to be or still very expensive compared to the means that we already developed and now available to you, David, and the market, everyone from high school down to elementary school and up to academia and very sophisticated clients like the pharmaceutical. So so let me ask you a question then because I this got me a little confused.
The satellite is still flying around after 2 years, but you already did the experiments. Can you add more experiments? No. This satellite actually is done with its experiments. Still, we can observe what happened to materials for after, you know, long duration in orbit. This satellite will survive around 19 years in orbit. I do expect its subcomponents to die before. But still, we executed 4 experiments with this system within this satellite.
And our next version is going to carry, can you guess how many experiments within the same size of of a laboratory in a CubeSat? So you'll have to describe how the the 4 work, but I think and so I'm going to ruin your little I think you said 86? It's, actually gonna be 360. 360. Yeah. And that will allow us even to shrink the cost and to be very profitable and and to propose it to to to everyone.
So with the explain to me what an ex how an experiment works because it's not an easy it's not an easy leap of faith for an individual to be able to say, okay. We have a lab up in space. What does that mean? That means that, first of all, you must be creative. So, as a scientist, as a teenager, someone within the STEM classes, or, in any other lab, you, would like probably to solve a a chemis flow chemistry issue or a drag And so flow chemistry, what does that mean?
Flow chemistry is a technology that while you are pushing streams of liquid into a reservoir or into reaction channels and chambers. Something happened between the liquids through the flow, and those fascinating things are the magical crystals that we can now build in orbit, build in space. Okay. So the you were just talking you said what you're saying is that you can you can let me you can inject a a liquid into another liquid? Or do you inject it into a cell?
Or do you inject it into what do you what do you inject in? We inject at least 2 different liquids into actually mix them. We can mix more than 2 together and to let them react. Once they are under microgravity, their reaction creates shapes of crystals. And then we control it by intervene of the temperature or additional parameters that will help the reaction to be much more either fast, slow, aggressive, and so on.
So you're saying you also have temperature control variable variations that you can create from Earth. You can tell it to be a little warmer, a little cooler, and then watch that reaction happen. Sure. Yes. We allow those to disinterprene for any of our clients once we understand the protocol, and he build a step by step procedure of execution of the flow chemistry liquids.
So each client gets the opportunity to intervene, to change variables, parameters, and to observe it using a set of sensors that we have now. We know that actually we have, of course, electro optical microscope. And then we have the spectrometry spectrometry reader. We have temperature measurement, pH measurement, glucose measurement. Any sensor that is small enough can be integrated into our system and to allow full flexibility for the clients.
Okay. So in the in the 4 experiments that you did in the first one, what did you do? The first one was a German experiment done by a fascinating Braunlov Institute. That was enzymatic reaction that we were trying to influence enzymes to be actually to survive some kind of a pH in order to improve daily product. I cannot tell what is the product, but That's fine. I I can tell you that it's a daily usage. Every one of us squeeze one of that every morning. Okay. So you were you had to choose.
You had 4 different clients or you had one client who did all 4? No. We have 4 different clients. The second one was UK top scientist for crystals and protein crystallization in orbit. His name is Professor Lee Cronin from University of Glasgow, and he actually executes directly crystals built in orbit using these, of course, preinstalled liquid into the system.
And the 3rd experiment was a peptide self assembly, where one of the fascinating scientists here in Tel Aviv decided to pull up 2 amino acids and let them structure, folded, unique shape, which it could not achieve your nerve. So if you take peptide or try to develop peptides on NERF using 2 amino acids or more, they came mostly as needles, and those are useless in orbit. We created a very delicate origami shape that has even 3 spectrals, like purple, blue, and white.
So you can rely on the shape. You can rely on the chemistry structure, and you can even rely on the light to transmit the data from one perspective to another to create a fascinating magical world of new things. The 4 experiments was something which sounds very simple, although I think is dramatically magical or unique. It is a mixing of oil and water, something that sounds very simple.
Although, you know that if you take oil and water together in the same glass here on earth, you would probably recognize that the oil is floating, and the water is down. But apparently in orbit, that's not the same. In orbit, oil and water never meet. They never stay in 2 fasas, 1 above each other. They are actually structured as a very hard position of metrics.
So any point you see water, oil, water, oil from bottom to top to the side, Temperature is the same all over, and, actually, we did hear a mistake because we we did not mark the oil. So we don't know which bubble is the oil and which one is the water. It's amazing, but we have a fascinating thing to try on it. It's known as the Moore Aguni effect, that every one of us is using it every day when he's using his smartphone.
You know, you measure your finger with the warming temperature of your body, and then you can push icons. You can open, flip down menus, and so on. This is the Maragun effect that now we are experiencing. Okay. So to add to this, for the listeners, you also have, I'm gonna say video content or you have cameras watching this happen. So on a microscopic level level, you can see exactly the types of reactions you're talking about.
So there's there's photographic evidence that the oil and the water, that the peptide self assembly worked, that that the crystals were created. Yes. Our system allows the client and scientists to observe using a variety of sensors, like camera, like performance reader, and many more, and to take logs. That means it's something unique created. You cut the log file, and you can send it to build your IP at the USP and T U. S. Patent Office.
And I think this is also a very robust technology that we now have in the system. So maybe you can give me a short summary of each one in reference to your product, low atmosphere and microgravity. So what why why low atmosphere? Why microgravity? Why are they important to what you're doing? And what's the difference? How does it make your product work better? Or how does it function so that we have a better understanding?
I must claim that, when we started the company, we didn't know that it would be like that. We read a lot of reports, most of the information related to NASA and astronauts' execution of experiment in the ISS, the International Space Station, or any space shuttle were limited and pending for sensitive reasons. But still, we could read in between the lines. It's something unique is there.
Although it was a very expensive long duration, we started to build our miniaturized delicate system and place it in orbit, where the first understanding was that here on Earth, where we are experiencing the one gravity, you know, no one of us can fly out of it, right, without using a different force. So you can definitely use airplanes, or you can jump, or you can drop yourself from a tower. But still, at the end, you will stick to the ground. And that's what's not happening in orbit, in space.
Actually, in space, what happens is that everything is in a position of sustainable movement that created once a million of the force on the body, on the system, on the liquids. And once you push them together and create the environment to let them to let them actually mix, that creates something unique.
First of all, the the we as far as we are creating the the atmospheric box, and we have the full control on the temperature and the pressure and everything around, the crystals build sometimes very fast, very, very fast compared to Earth, sometimes very slow. It all depends on the emulsions and the compounds that we injected into the containers, small reservoir bags. And then I think it's a kind of magical position that nothing influence. It's all stiff.
If you take a droplet on Earth and you pour it your ground or on the table, it will smash to the surface. Right? In orbit, if you take a droplet, it will stay very stiff, a kind of a bubble, very stiff. And if you want to intervene within it, you must be able to use different means, delicate sensors to intervene and to do trial and error in order to reach the outcome. And that that is the magical thing that happened in orbit, but you must use our system.
Okay. So I'm going to I'm gonna convert this to to non space. Okay. What happens in your technology is you're using the fact that there's 11000000th 1 millionth gravity, which is the moon is 1 6 gravity to Earth, and this is 1 millionth of the gravity. So there's there's no gravity. No gravity. And you take no gravity and you are using the the concept of, 0 atmosphere. And on earth, that's very challenging to create to do experimentation in it.
When you have no atmosphere, you can't have explosions, You could do experiments you couldn't do otherwise. So what SpacePharma is doing, what you're doing, EOC, is you're taking a molecule, you're taking in your little in your little lab. I'm not trying to insult you by using the word little. In your lab, you're taking 2 types of materials and you're joining them together and you're like squirting them as syringes into a space, a a a configurable space, and you're watching it.
But this is what happens that's different than on earth. On earth, if you're gonna create a molecule, you would and it was had a round structure. The earth's gravity can pull down the molecules and therefore, it would fall apart like pick up sticks if you're playing a game. It won't create a full structure. If you could just for imagine, and I think this is what you're trying to say is if you can imagine you go up into space, you now have an environment where no gravity is pulling on it.
So as you're starting to put together a shape of a circle, the circle is just standing sitting there in in in the atmosphere, not moving, not doing anything. And you can build the structure until the point in which you've got which the Romans use the term keystone. You put a keystone in and a keystone is the the last the last piece that holds it together like an archway over a door. And you put the keystone in and now you've got a molecule that is complete, it's finished.
And that molecule, because it has been, it has the keystone in it, could be brought back down to earth and used in its form that was created in space. Did I say that okay? Absolutely. You described it just great. Maybe one more issue, David, is the you know, in orbit, we used to have a very expensive system, satellite.
There are thousands around us orbiting Earth, but there is the International Space Station or used to be the shutters where a crew of people is taking positions and acting to survive, to create their living. But in our system, which is very little, as you mentioned, very small, very it's a shoebox size, we don't have a man made. So we don't have people within it. We don't have crew in it.
We are autonomous, still can use our smartphone to execute everything remotely without risking astronauts to be in space under the extreme condition and all the others topics related to security and and other. So it's this is, I guess, one of the challenges I have. You're doing all of this for the German experiment, the UK. You've got this peptide self assembly.
Yeah. You're doing it up in space in this lab, but until we have labs in space, you can't simulate them to create those molecules again to use them on earth. So what's the plan? Can you repeat the last question to Craig? Are you, you you've done all of this. You've proven the water and the the oil. You've proven the peptide assembly. You've verified that crystals can be built in orbit. You've done all of that. Fantastic. It's a research experiment.
But Yeah. If I wanted to manufacture that, are you in line or thinking about creating manufacturing facilities that you can then take the material and then you can create it in space and then bring it down to earth? Because without it, you've just done research. Yes. This is this is a great question because, yeah, you're right.
Once we have the desired outcome and we have something unique as a research plan or protocol, and then we have our patent design and applied and we granted for that, we want to produce in a large scale. So State Pharma is now designing the 1st factory in orbit, which is a James Bond suitcase size, no more than 25 kilos altogether of £50 that will be able to build and to generate high volume.
But for that, I would like to say something that might sound bizarre, but still we confirmed that recently. For any new molecule structure or small molecule crystallization that we create in orbit, we need 1 gram to get down to earth. We take this 1 gram, and we can replicate it to be 1 kilo, 1,000 more.
So this is a unique process that's known as seed sitting that we can generate in orbit or start the process in orbit, still use a very miniaturized system like we proposed for research, convert it to our we use then the factory of the future in orbit and get down, let's say, 101 grams of different structures of different small molecules. And from those 1 grams, we can jump to have 2 generations of seeds or masterpieces that came from orbits turned to be 1,000 times more.
And this is the process that had to be a a continue on earth. So what you're telling me or the way it sounds is you are going to be using a sort of crystallization technique where once the molecule is formed in space, you can bring it down to earth, you put it into a laboratory, and you can recrystallize that same molecule using its same orientation, its DNA, its structure, and you can multiple and produce it many times over.
But you do need you do need the original piece to work off of, like, the analogy would be diamonds. Diamonds are being put into a vat, then we're creating diamonds off of the original crystal and structure. Am I am I on target? So we call it. It's very similar. In the pharmaceutical industry, if you want to create, you put it in a liquid. You're right. And those masterpieces replicate around. If it's the same process, probably. Yeah. The to do and I don't know all the details of it.
I haven't studied it. But to when they can take a diamond and they can put it into a lab and then using some type of technique, they can produce or have that diamond recrystallize so that you could produce diamonds with the exact same crystal and structure. You have to have the original. I'm not familiar with this process, but we are dealing with the out process. Okay. How how do you spell the the structure? What do you call how do you spell it? Sid Sid Sid something? Sid, seeding.
So you don't s I d s I d t I n g? Once again, s, double e, d, and then dash, sitting, s, double e, d I n g. Okay. And this procedure is known for very limited people who are dealing with pharmaceuticals. It's kind of a secret, still very com complicated that you but, you know, once you use the masterpieces to create the the the dosage, the big amount, you must come back again and create the 2nd masterpieces in order.
As far as this can be used for no more than 2 to 6 generations, It all depends on the protein that you crystallize all their molecules. So there is no one single solution for this production. You mentioned production in orbit, and this is true. This is our way to enlarge our capacity in orbit and to provide the factory volume creation of products. Okay. So I'm going to read off a a search that I have just done. Scientists create laboratory grown gemstones a little differently.
They start with a naturally mined slice of crystal placed in a crucible container, a liquid mix of ingredients to feed crystal growth is put into the chamber and then, subjected to extremely high temperatures of at least 1,100 degrees Celsius. And then they can create the diamonds. So Yep. It's you're using a technique using a similar where you're taking a similar type of process. You're taking a crystalline structure.
It might be different because you're doing a biological, or a or or a carbon based as compared to a piece of stone. Yes. But you're doing Yeah. You have your own process off of that. Okay. Yeah. So you you had given me in terms of, some of the things we were gonna cover was the protein crystallization and orbit, peptide self assembly, and ACRA neuron extension.
Can you explain let's start from on each one of them, if you could do me a favor and describe what protein is, describe what peptide is and the self and the and the acron when you get to each one of them. Because unless you know what this these are, you've got what I would say the curse of knowledge. You know so much about it. But for someone like me, can you tell me exactly what you're talking about in each one so I know more about what types of possibilities come out of this magic?
Okay. I'll start from the first logical results in orbit. It's a small molecule crystallization. Or some like to say it's protein crystallization, although we know that protein crystallization was not in orbit for many years. At SpacePharmacy, we decided to skip on that and to go directly to small molecules, which are, by weight, less than 500 daltons, which is a very small, weight. Then Less than 500 dalton? How do you dalton? Yes. Dalton.
If you use it in in in in Wikipedia, you can see what is it exactly in Dalton. And, you know, those small molecules on earth are impacted dramatically by gravity. This means that there is no way that those can be free of flotation. And upon that, there's very limited medicines that rely on small molecules, although there is enough market for that. It's about a quarter of a 1000000000 U. S. Dollar annually, but it's a sky ceiling.
No one could push it further and to be able to crystallize more small molecules. So what we decided is to pick those 2 orbits and to try to crystallize them. And apparently, it's happened. We took a set of compounds, which were used by big pharmaceuticals to create a blockbuster medicine, which is a marketed medicine. And we asked them to let us do the same protocol in in orbit in order to compare what's happened within our system compared to their system earlier.
And what's happened is that within less than 10 minutes, we created a very unique crystal that are much big by size. We can understand the molecular structure of the crystals, and we definitely can use those as masterpieces to create the best medicine on Earth, although the masterpieces came from orbit. And this is the small molecule crystallization process, which is very magical, very magical.
I think that when I push the button to execute the experiment in orbit, because it started as a research program, we were astonished to see that those crystals are getting bigger and bigger and bigger and 10 times bigger than the biggest one that you can achieve here now. Taking into a comparison what happened here after 6 years of trials, I think it's a very, very important achievement.
And now we are going to open a factory in orbit to create many of small molecules compounds that will be available for the market and to expand the medicines which are based on small molecules and to help our life here on earth. I think it's So so when I let me see if I can translate this into my own thinking. What you're telling me is be the molecules are being able to produce faster, and the only way I can see that happening is, are the there's a few pieces.
Besides the microgravity, so now you've got molecules that aren't limited by the gravitational pull. The low atmosphere or the no atmosphere, but it's not even low, it's no atmospheric conditions, allow for the reproduction of molecules to happen at a different pace because there's there's nothing in between them. There's no molecules interfering as you would have on earth even if you tried to simulate it.
So my guess is the reason that it can get a lot larger is because there's no interference and molecules can move within space without having to bump into other molecules. That's probably the the answer. Yes. You're right. Okay. I'm I'm not I'm pretending to be a biophysicist up in space, but I don't have a degree in it. Yeah. No one yet. No one has yet, but the reason we're gonna see those new futurism, you know But that that's what that's it. View it is or Yeah. Mission.
It makes it makes sense to me because one of the reasons that you use you will use a condition of 0 atmosphere is because there are variety of benefits. What are several of them including, there's no molecules in there, there you don't have reactions that you would have typically. So if you tried to ignite something, if you're to create an explosion or a a molecule creation on earth, you could it could it could ignite. There's nitrogen there. There's oxygen there.
There's all sorts of, molecules in the air that could be ignited through the combination. But now if you remove all of that, you have nothing there. And a molecule can move that the at the speed it it is being created because there's nothing interfering. There's no, an object in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force, which I think is Newton's 3rd law. 1st or 3rd I think it's 3rd. It would no longer have that there would be nothing in its way.
And this way, it can form and it will not have any there'll be no latency. There'll be no slowing down of the down of the molecule motion. And therefore, the next molecule and the next and the next will be able to build on top of it. So that's my guess. You heard it here, ladies and gentlemen. You heard it here. I'm making it up as we go along. Okay. So so now you've got a protein crystallization in orbit. Is there anything oh, I wanted to tie to this.
Is this you mentioned something about Michael j Fox's blood in space for Parkinson's when I was in Herzliya. Yes. Is this part of the protein crystallization, or is this part of the peptides? This is part of his personal medicine development in orbit to try to build a unique protein and to create a protein that's suitable for his body. I think this is another jump that we are going to experience as a magical thing. Personal, at the beginning, early adopters need a lot of money.
Can go through all this and create something in a personal manner, means for their own suitable for their own diseases, to their own body. So Michael j Fox You didn't realize that I was actually paying attention. I was paying attention to what you were saying. Yes. You are doing great. So so so let me let me add to this. What what Yossi well, actually, Yossi, why don't you say what was happening with Michael j Fox and what they were doing? And I'm assuming it's another company or somebody.
Tell me what went on with Michael J. Fox and what was Right now, it's a foundation. But still they use the, probably, you know, researchers to to to do it. So so they hired a firm like yours to do this in space so that they could, create personalized medicine? Is that would it happen on the International Space Station?
He he's addressing the the the theory behind it is instead of creating a mass marketed product, they're taking Michael j Fox's materials, his blood and samples, and trying to create solutions for Michael j Fox. Probably that's what have been done, and you're absolutely right. It's a very ambitious activity. I think they invested tens of 1,000,000 to be able to generate its own suitable proteins to demonstrate the personal medicines for the first time.
But not everyone can allow it for himself, but we are trying to make it more generic. So our system should take care about, let's say, societies. You don't need 200,000 patients in order to start something which is a commercial. You can rely on less amount of patients and then to provide kind of society or clusters or group of patients to use our system. Well, it's to me, it's a proof of concept Yes.
That Michael j if Michael j Fox can do it for $15,000,000, then then a smaller group can say, okay, that let's use let's use some network analysis. Let's look at groups. And in every in every data set, there are subgroups and groups and groups and groups.
So you could say, okay, we've got people with Parkinson's at this age, in this demographic, in this type of a culture, And maybe there are 14,000 of them in the world, and we can then create a molecule that would fit those 14,000 that have similar characteristics and behavior as a Parkinson's disease. So it's the first off and the most expensive, yet it is a proof of concept that can derive, the need for more manufacturing in space. Okay. Yeah. I think you you got it. Right?
So we've got protein crystallization. What about peptides? What is peptide self assembly? Peptide is a it's a kind of interaction between amino acids. There are 26, I think, in the body and a few others or many others that created outside of the body, engineered outside of the body. If you take 2 or more and you try to, you know, to manage them to structure, you cannot achieve any structure on earth. You get needles, and this is very frustrating as those needles are not useful for anything.
And what we achieved in Orbit, actually, we took 2 amino acids and let them mix, use. And apparently, we got a very delicate kind of balls, folded shapes with many lines together, and even a very delicate spectra around in between. So it started with the edges of purple and then go to blue. And at the middle, it was very white light.
So now we know that in microgravity, you can create delicate structures of 2 or more amino acids that can be folded and then be used for material science, medicine, and even food in different manners. And this is, I think, one of the great achievements that we have in orbit within our first mission. So this is the peptide self assembly very. And just, I I looked it up. There are 20 amino acids that are important to your health. Only Yeah. Only 9 amino acids are classified as essential.
Just to give some numbers Yeah. And so we we are trying to to to to work with those and to add those to different kind of food, medicines, improvements, and this is one of the top priority activities within our miniaturized laboratory company.
So when when you're looking at your list of protein crystallization, prote peptides, and acon neuron extension, is this this is the one that you feel has the best the way you're making it sound, is this the one that makes us appear to have the best opportunities? Yes. Those are the success stories that we already can demonstrate to our partners, our clients, to the market, and that, you know, if you want to go inside, you you should rely on the old success story and to progress.
We but, you know, we have some failures. Sometimes things are not executed as we planned. I can tell you something which is very unique for sure. All of our expectation results that we built with our clients and internally were different from the outcome that we achieved in order. I think that tells something unique that we really don't understand how things executed or happened or why those turn to be this shape or this structure or whatever it is under microgravity extreme conditions.
And this is the beauty of the researchers, the people who are willing to invest and to investigate and to research and to bring new things. I think humanity and mankind are going to be improved. There are no knowledge of new materials, new compounds, new medicines created in of it. And this is the beauty, and we like it. You know, it's the as you're saying this, I'm gonna go to the dark side for a moment. Not the dark side the far side of the moon, but the dark side.
Mhmm. What you just described to me, the way you had brought it up, it triggered in me the fact that we we don't know how, humans will reproduce in space because of just exactly what you've said. We don't know if it will reproduce we will reproduce the same way. We don't know how cells will reproduce over extended period of time in space, not low earth low earth orbit. But in, outer space, we don't know.
And what you're seeing is the positive to bring back to Earth, which is, as you know, is part of the project Moon Hut initiative is to change how we live on Earth by using space Mhmm. Space tech. But at the same time, I'm saying, oh my god. This could be a challenge because you're seeing the impact of molecular, combinations that are not what you expect. So we could end up you could also, at the same time, be describing what's a future for Earth.
You could also be outlining the negatives for humans in space. Yes. You definitely describe it right. We don't know enough, to survive the way to mitigate the challenges and to use the appropriate chemicals, compounds on the way medicines, on the way food creation, and lifestyle for our bodies' needs and so on, It's still a risk. I think this is the main reason that we don't see enough people going to far destinations and new planets. The moon even the moon is a huge challenge, as you know.
But we will work it out. We will create, we will improve, and we will engineer the molecules, the cells to survive the journey, to survive the impact of the gravity, to survive the radiation, and to make it, at the end, a successful journey. And as you know, I hope we do it fast enough because I think there are things looming on the horizon which won't make us get there the way we would like to. So let's go on to this axon neuron extension. Yeah. Actually, this explained Yes. Go ahead. Explain.
I'll explain it to you. The axons are or the neurons are sensors that here on earth stay on the same length, so there is no way to extend those. Apparently, we use the microgravity to try to extend actually, we did not know that it's gonna work. Right? We started the the experiment, and we let actions to grow within our miniaturized organ on a chip, which is a credit card sized laboratory, which is within our 3U lab. So we have many of those placed in inside.
So we still keep shrinking in other devices. And apparently, those actions grow sometimes 2 times within 48 hours. So actually, they were doubled. Now we are trying to investigate why those actions became very healthy, very big, very large. And to analyze it, probably to declutter the genes and and and the other conditions that were replacing. But this is amazing because no one here on Earth can extend neurons or or actions.
It doesn't say that we are going to to operate people now and to connect, you know, if you have a cut in your leg or if you had a an injury in your car accident, and you and you lost your senses, your feeling in your body, so you can still use your actions and connect 2 points. This is not the story. The story is a little bit complicated, and we are trying to find a way to enlarge actions to improve, operation. Okay? So let me let let me just interject for a minute.
So a neuron is a, it's part of a nerve cell, and it's the part that moves electrical impulses through your body. Mhmm. And there's part of the nerve fiber. So what you're talking about because I don't know that most people are very familiar with what an axon is. So the axon then will, if you can create an axon and or at least be able to generate 1, you've got your you're in one position. You're very far ahead. But to be able to make it grow double is a big question of why.
Scientifically, why does that happen and what's the value in that? Sure. It's still it is still under investigation, but we definitely know how to extend neurons in action. So that means that if in the future, if we're capable of extending neurons, we could take somebody who's had a a severed something.
Mhmm. We might be able to create that nerve in space, bring it back down to earth, and then potentially, again, this is a little sci fi here or a little, surreal, is we can then take that nerve and input it back into a human to connect the body parts again. Is that what we're talking about? This is this is the simple way to describe it. Yes. First of all, it's a huge discovery that the axons can be grown and doubled by by by length within less than 48 hours.
Then we need to to to work out with the the surgeries and to to see what can be done with this achievement. We are not clear on the on the outcome. So that's why when we're talking about your 3 the protein peptide and axon, you're focusing on the peptide because that's got the biggest opportunity on a on a market space. So Sure. When you look at the when you look at today, the global opportunities for a company like yours, and this is I'm not trying to fluff up numbers and make you sound good.
What I'm trying to figure out is what do you see the market opportunities for this type of product being or and will you see many other competitors in your space in a short period of time once all of this is released? I think the market is huge. We just accomplished a recent assessment, and we recognize that the market is willing for new technology and seeking and very keen to adopt this.
But, you know, it all depend on the market digestion process and duration, how long it's gonna take to the market to adopt it completely or at least 50% of the technology that we're proposing. The market is big. It's huge. I think it's refreshing. I was even surprised to see the figures. I do see some obstacles. As you know, big companies already developed their supply chain, production line, distribution, so they don't jump on any discovery or any new technology.
They need to cover their own expenses, and we need to be ready to replace their current expenses and technology with our technology. So it's a kind of a a dance, with the market. Let them, you know, test it and make a pilot then to adopt, adopt it completely. It will take time. I would I I I would look at it very differently than what you're saying, and excuse me for interjecting here in this, is that your product is very similar to the beginnings of, 3 d printing.
When 3 d printing was first created in the manufacturing sector, it was it took the place of creating prototypes. So it was rapid prototyping. Mhmm. And it sat in another space in another room where the designers would create something, build it, prototype it, and then say, is this what we're looking for? Yeah. I see yours not evolutionizing the supply chain. What I see it doing is saying, okay. You're trying to find new molecules, new solutions, new challenges.
Use ours as one of those testing grounds because we can proof of concept. We can give you what works and what doesn't. And then if in fact you believe the supply chain should be created off of it, you can then modify, not completely, overhaul, but you can modify portions of your product development cycle. So you got, cosmetics. Sure. You've got, medicine. You've got all of these categories you've you worked on.
So if I was a, a pharmaceutical company, I could come to you and say, let's try this proof of concept, 3 d print, see how it works. And And then I would go to the next and the next. So I would say you should interject yourself into the r and d component, not into the supply chain and start there, and that will rapidly grow. Because within 5 to 7 years, you will have the manufacturing capability and you'll have, enough series of successes that people will say, okay.
Let's let's increase the scale. I agree with you. Yes. This is how it's supposed to be.
We will approach actually our expanding the plan or strategic planning with colleagues to more discussions with the r and d sector within the companies, the r and d departments and the r and d people, and to propose them, as you just mentioned, a very new technology to expedite things, to improve things, to make it differently, and, of course, generate revenue and bring health, food, and life better life here here on Earth on Earth.
I I I've got to believe when we take a look at, for example, the automotive industry, when they create a car Mhmm. Prototype car, that's for futuristic, they spend 1,000,000 of dollars on it. I've gotta believe that pharmaceutical companies or any of the other categories, food services, are also spending 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of dollars. It becomes the it becomes the angle in which you present it that becomes really where the value base is. So, cool.
I think there's some some neat pieces here or neat, pieces of information that I've taken away. Mhmm. What when you look at the space industry, what's the biggest challenge you see happening today? I think the base the space industry is changing. First of all, there are many new players.
You can see much more launchers, that used to be owned by space agencies, governments, consortium, like Arianespas or ULA or Northrop Grumman, now turns to be SpaceX and the others from the States start to be owned by billionaires, like Richard Branson with Virgin Space or Virgin Galactic and Jeff Bezos and John Allen, who passed recently but passed away, but still have his dreams ongoing. But many small vehicles turn to be a very aggressive movement in the launch industry.
So we're gonna see a lot of small rockets, launchers, going to orbit, to LEO, which is low elevation orbit. I can mention one of them, which is Rocket Lab, but you can have also vectors, fireflies, and others. But more than 100 entities are aiming to hit this or to exceed atmosphere. That helps SpacePharma, definitely. We can rely on we can shop. Right? We can go in shops. Well, one of the challenges that I've been seeing is that we have so many people involved in the rocketry space.
There's not enough business to be able to support them at the moment. So it it does there's too many, as some people believe. I'm not exactly sure. I haven't analyzed it. The other one is with with Alan dying, and maybe you've read something differently, but I've heard they've scaled back a lot of his space based projects. Yeah. Because they they and then we had we had, what's his name?
We had, Deep Space Industry was absorbed and closed more or less, and they're not gonna be doing space mining and neither is Planet Resources. So I'm not exactly sure where we're going with this, but I'm gonna tell you that today Yes. Today, it's gonna be free. The the the the we have too many entities dealing with launching. I do see this market adjusting to the demand. It's happened like the dotcom with the Internet and even the 3 d printing.
Not everyone can survive, and the best will survive. The rest will defocus or fade out from the market. That's the reason that SpacePharm actually relying on those. We are now developing a launcher, which is a very expensive business with a very limited market today. On the other hand, we are not building the CubeSat. We are integrating our laboratory, a delicate laboratory, into any space vehicle. It can be a mini shuttle. It can be the International Space Station. It can be a sonic rocket.
And that is fascinating because we are keeping the smart things shrinked within our system with communication and, of course, with all the liquid handling system, the lab on a chip, organ on a chip devices, sensors, and that is a direct intervene of the client. I think this is a smart way of dealing with the opportunity to hitchhike or piggyback on others, and on the other hand, to deliver something which is very fruitful economically wise to this that never spoke microgravity. Let's be honest.
Our intent, SpacePharma's intent is to provide the technology to non space players, like food industry, agro technology, chemicals, those stick to the ground. And the reason that they are dealing with the non space technology is what the cost and sometimes even the IP that they lose it for the owners of the space cost. And I hope that will change the market. It's you know, sometimes people expect things to create faster or happen, or to be expedited dramatically.
I think it should be expedited appropriately. So it will take time, but we should be there. Well, I'm I'm hoping that we exit with Project Moon Hut Foundation. I hope we expedite it faster. So, Yossi, thank you very much for being on the program. I appreciate you taking the time to put together the content that we've been learning about. I appreciate it tremendously.
For everybody else, this, Project Moon Hut is, going on approximately a 5 year project with such a small team at NASA in in Silicon Valley region, and we wanna collectively change how we live on earth. And our directive is we'd like to create sustainable life on the moon, not self sustaining life, through the accelerated development of an earth and space based ecosystem to change how we live on earth for all species. We're not gonna take 7,500,000,000 people and ship them to other planets.
Right. So we have to take care of the one place that we know, that where we live, we have to we have to keep it going. So for those of you who have not checked it out, you can go to project moon hot dot org, sign up for our space related database so we know we are out there. We've also got facebook.comprojectmoonhot. We've got to connect with Twitter at at project moon hut. And obviously, you've got the ability, the age of infinite podcast. So hopefully, you'll listen to others.
So I'm David Goldsmith, and thank you for listening. Hello, everybody. This is David Goldsmith, and welcome to the Age of Infinite, a Project Moon Hut podcast series. We have an incredible guest on the line who's going to be talking about space is magic. You can do nothing, and amazing things can happen. His name is Yossi Yamin. He's director of SpacePharma, a really amazing startup out of Israel. How are you, Yossi? Hi. Good morning, David.
I'm very happy to be online with you and to describe the fascinating magical system that we have now in orbit. Fantastic. So I'm assuming that you've put together an outline for me. So can you give me the bullet points we're going to be covering? Sure. Those will be we start with the crystals protein crystallization in orbit, how we create new shapes and new structures from the same compound that we have here on NERF.
The second one will be a peptide self assembly, which is something unique that we can create kind of eugrony folded amino acids into nice structures as well. And then I will describe some of neuron extension as well as axons.
But first, let me tell you that we need to discuss the extreme conditions of all this because right now, as you're aware of, we have many satellites orbiting Earth, more than a few 1,000, and those providing mostly communication, geo positioning, where to go, how to do it, how long it's going to take to me, and of course, Earth observation for day to day needs.
But taking into consideration that those satellites used to be big, still big, heavy, huge by size compared to our miniaturized laboratory, which is 3U size. And I will describe soon what it is, the 3U size by new space dimension. The extreme conditions that we are now in are providing the environment for our creation, for our medical outcomes. And this is what I would be very happy to discuss with Houston.
So the 3U size is only 30 by 10 by 10 centimeters or 8 by 4 on 4 inches It's less than £5 by weight and comparable to labware that currently exists on Earth.
For example, people who are addressing white jackets, moving parts from one place to another, using hoods, using microscopes, using tables, using chairs, and, of course, dealing with the centrifuge and all other big lovers are now dealing with miniaturized like LEGO parts, delicate, liquid handling chips, that within those, we can install fascinating world of experience. It can start with bacterias, go to liquid, and, of course, add some samples of life science.
So what you're saying is that you've got satellites up in space that and I'll looks great, but for people who are listening, there is something called a CubeSat. And a CubeSat is a technology that's come about over the past few decades where we've taken satellites that used to be a $100,000,000 and the size of 3 people tall and, 2 people wide laying flat. And now what we've done is we've re reduced them down to a size which is defined a cubesat as a 10 by 10 by 10 centimeter structure.
And you've taken it, and you've created a lab within a CubeSat using that same tech, bringing it down to 100 of 1,000 of dollars versus 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of dollars. And you've created a lab within there that you've put up into space. Absolutely. This is the story. It's a shoebox size or half a shoe, shoebox size or big, meal cartoon size that's now in orbit. And you're absolutely right. It cost us less than before, much less than before.
I think it can even be dramatically inexpensive compared to the cost of on Earth lab. And this is, I think, the game changer that SpacePharma is providing right now using our DITO miniaturized laboratory in orbit in a cubesat that can survive those extreme conditions we have right now, actually, tomorrow. So tomorrow, within 3 days, we're going to have we're going to celebrate 2 years of our DTO-two in orbit, still operating, providing data.
And this I think it's amazing, because now as we are talking, you can pick up your smartphone and command and control directly your experiments, your execution, your research within the CubeSat.
And that means that you are holding power in your fingers like you were NASA or a Digital Space Agency that used to be or still very expensive compared to the means that we already developed and now available to you, David, and the market, everyone from high school down to elementary school and up to academia and very sophisticated clients like the pharmaceutical. So so let me ask you a question then because I this got me a little confused.
The satellite is still flying around after 2 years, but you already did the experiments. Can you add more experiments? No. This satellite actually is done with its experiments. Still, we can observe what happened to materials for after, you know, long duration in orbit. This satellite will survive around 19 years in orbit. I do expect its subcomponents to die before. But still, we executed 4 experiments with this system within this satellite.
And our next version is going to carry, can you guess how many experiments within the same size of of a laboratory in a CubeSat? So you'll have to describe how the the 4 work, but I think and so I'm going to ruin your little I think you said 86? It's, actually gonna be 360. 360. Yeah. And that will allow us even to shrink the cost and to be very profitable and and to propose it to to to everyone.
So with the explain to me what an ex how an experiment works because it's not an easy it's not an easy leap of faith for an individual to be able to say, okay. We have a lab up in space. What does that mean? That means that, first of all, you must be creative. So, as a scientist, as a teenager, someone within the STEM classes, or, in any other lab, you, would like probably to solve a a chemis flow chemistry issue or a drag And so flow chemistry, what does that mean?
Flow chemistry is a technology that while you are pushing streams of liquid into a reservoir or into reaction channels and chambers. Something happened between the liquids through the flow, and those fascinating things are the magical crystals that we can now build in orbit, build in space. Okay. So the you were just talking you said what you're saying is that you can you can let me you can inject a a liquid into another liquid? Or do you inject it into a cell?
Or do you inject it into what do you what do you inject in? We inject at least 2 different liquids into actually mix them. We can mix more than 2 together and to let them react. Once they are under microgravity, their reaction creates shapes of crystals. And then we control it by intervene of the temperature or additional parameters that will help the reaction to be much more either fast, slow, aggressive, and so on.
So you're saying you also have temperature control variable variations that you can create from Earth. You can tell it to be a little warmer, a little cooler, and then watch that reaction happen. Sure. Yes. We allow those to disinterprene for any of our clients once we understand the protocol, and he build a step by step procedure of execution of the flow chemistry liquids.
So each client gets the opportunity to intervene, to change variables, parameters, and to observe it using a set of sensors that we have now. We know that actually we have, of course, electro optical microscope. And then we have the spectrometry spectrometry reader. We have temperature measurement, pH measurement, glucose measurement. Any sensor that is small enough can be integrated into our system and to allow full flexibility for the clients.
Okay. So in the in the 4 experiments that you did in the first one, what did you do? The first one was a German experiment done by a fascinating Braunlov Institute. That was enzymatic reaction that we were trying to influence enzymes to be actually to survive some kind of a pH in order to improve daily product. I cannot tell what is the product, but That's fine. I I can tell you that it's a daily usage. Every one of us squeeze one of that every morning. Okay. So you were you had to choose.
You had 4 different clients or you had one client who did all 4? No. We have 4 different clients. The second one was UK top scientist for crystals and protein crystallization in orbit. His name is Professor Lee Cronin from University of Glasgow, and he actually executes directly crystals built in orbit using these, of course, preinstalled liquid into the system.
And the 3rd experiment was a peptide self assembly, where one of the fascinating scientists here in Tel Aviv decided to pull up 2 amino acids and let them structure, folded, unique shape, which it could not achieve your nerve. So if you take peptide or try to develop peptides on NERF using 2 amino acids or more, they came mostly as needles, and those are useless in orbit. We created a very delicate origami shape that has even 3 spectrals, like purple, blue, and white.
So you can rely on the shape. You can rely on the chemistry structure, and you can even rely on the light to transmit the data from one perspective to another to create a fascinating magical world of new things. The 4 experiments was something which sounds very simple, although I think is dramatically magical or unique. It is a mixing of oil and water, something that sounds very simple.
Although, you know that if you take oil and water together in the same glass here on earth, you would probably recognize that the oil is floating, and the water is down. But apparently in orbit, that's not the same. In orbit, oil and water never meet. They never stay in 2 fasas, 1 above each other. They are actually structured as a very hard position of metrics.
So any point you see water, oil, water, oil from bottom to top to the side, Temperature is the same all over, and, actually, we did hear a mistake because we we did not mark the oil. So we don't know which bubble is the oil and which one is the water. It's amazing, but we have a fascinating thing to try on it. It's known as the Moore Aguni effect, that every one of us is using it every day when he's using his smartphone.
You know, you measure your finger with the warming temperature of your body, and then you can push icons. You can open, flip down menus, and so on. This is the Maragun effect that now we are experiencing. Okay. So to add to this, for the listeners, you also have, I'm gonna say video content or you have cameras watching this happen. So on a microscopic level level, you can see exactly the types of reactions you're talking about.
So there's there's photographic evidence that the oil and the water, that the peptide self assembly worked, that that the crystals were created. Yes. Our system allows the client and scientists to observe using a variety of sensors, like camera, like performance reader, and many more, and to take logs. That means it's something unique created. You cut the log file, and you can send it to build your IP at the USP and T U. S. Patent Office.
And I think this is also a very robust technology that we now have in the system. So maybe you can give me a short summary of each one in reference to your product, low atmosphere and microgravity. So what why why low atmosphere? Why microgravity? Why are they important to what you're doing? And what's the difference? How does it make your product work better? Or how does it function so that we have a better understanding?
I must claim that, when we started the company, we didn't know that it would be like that. We read a lot of reports, most of the information related to NASA and astronauts' execution of experiment in the ISS, the International Space Station, or any space shuttle were limited and pending for sensitive reasons. But still, we could read in between the lines. It's something unique is there.
Although it was a very expensive long duration, we started to build our miniaturized delicate system and place it in orbit, where the first understanding was that here on Earth, where we are experiencing the one gravity, you know, no one of us can fly out of it, right, without using a different force. So you can definitely use airplanes, or you can jump, or you can drop yourself from a tower. But still, at the end, you will stick to the ground. And that's what's not happening in orbit, in space.
Actually, in space, what happens is that everything is in a position of sustainable movement that created once a million of the force on the body, on the system, on the liquids. And once you push them together and create the environment to let them to let them actually mix, that creates something unique.
First of all, the the we as far as we are creating the the atmospheric box, and we have the full control on the temperature and the pressure and everything around, the crystals build sometimes very fast, very, very fast compared to Earth, sometimes very slow. It all depends on the emulsions and the compounds that we injected into the containers, small reservoir bags. And then I think it's a kind of magical position that nothing influence. It's all stiff.
If you take a droplet on Earth and you pour it your ground or on the table, it will smash to the surface. Right? In orbit, if you take a droplet, it will stay very stiff, a kind of a bubble, very stiff. And if you want to intervene within it, you must be able to use different means, delicate sensors to intervene and to do trial and error in order to reach the outcome. And that that is the magical thing that happened in orbit, but you must use our system.
Okay. So I'm going to I'm gonna convert this to to non space. Okay. What happens in your technology is you're using the fact that there's 11000000th 1 millionth gravity, which is the moon is 1 6 gravity to Earth, and this is 1 millionth of the gravity. So there's there's no gravity. No gravity. And you take no gravity and you are using the the concept of, 0 atmosphere. And on earth, that's very challenging to create to do experimentation in it.
When you have no atmosphere, you can't have explosions, You could do experiments you couldn't do otherwise. So what SpacePharma is doing, what you're doing, EOC, is you're taking a molecule, you're taking in your little in your little lab. I'm not trying to insult you by using the word little. In your lab, you're taking 2 types of materials and you're joining them together and you're like squirting them as syringes into a space, a a a configurable space, and you're watching it.
But this is what happens that's different than on earth. On earth, if you're gonna create a molecule, you would and it was had a round structure. The earth's gravity can pull down the molecules and therefore, it would fall apart like pick up sticks if you're playing a game. It won't create a full structure. If you could just for imagine, and I think this is what you're trying to say is if you can imagine you go up into space, you now have an environment where no gravity is pulling on it.
So as you're starting to put together a shape of a circle, the circle is just standing sitting there in in in the atmosphere, not moving, not doing anything. And you can build the structure until the point in which you've got which the Romans use the term keystone. You put a keystone in and a keystone is the the last the last piece that holds it together like an archway over a door. And you put the keystone in and now you've got a molecule that is complete, it's finished.
And that molecule, because it has been, it has the keystone in it, could be brought back down to earth and used in its form that was created in space. Did I say that okay? Absolutely. You described it just great. Maybe one more issue, David, is the you know, in orbit, we used to have a very expensive system, satellite.
There are thousands around us orbiting Earth, but there is the International Space Station or used to be the shutters where a crew of people is taking positions and acting to survive, to create their living. But in our system, which is very little, as you mentioned, very small, very it's a shoebox size, we don't have a man made. So we don't have people within it. We don't have crew in it.
We are autonomous, still can use our smartphone to execute everything remotely without risking astronauts to be in space under the extreme condition and all the others topics related to security and and other. So it's this is, I guess, one of the challenges I have. You're doing all of this for the German experiment, the UK. You've got this peptide self assembly.
Yeah. You're doing it up in space in this lab, but until we have labs in space, you can't simulate them to create those molecules again to use them on earth. So what's the plan? Can you repeat the last question to Craig? Are you, you you've done all of this. You've proven the water and the the oil. You've proven the peptide assembly. You've verified that crystals can be built in orbit. You've done all of that. Fantastic. It's a research experiment.
But Yeah. If I wanted to manufacture that, are you in line or thinking about creating manufacturing facilities that you can then take the material and then you can create it in space and then bring it down to earth? Because without it, you've just done research. Yes. This is this is a great question because, yeah, you're right.
Once we have the desired outcome and we have something unique as a research plan or protocol, and then we have our patent design and applied and we granted for that, we want to produce in a large scale. So State Pharma is now designing the 1st factory in orbit, which is a James Bond suitcase size, no more than 25 kilos altogether of £50 that will be able to build and to generate high volume.
But for that, I would like to say something that might sound bizarre, but still we confirmed that recently. For any new molecule structure or small molecule crystallization that we create in orbit, we need 1 gram to get down to earth. We take this 1 gram, and we can replicate it to be 1 kilo, 1,000 more.
So this is a unique process that's known as seed sitting that we can generate in orbit or start the process in orbit, still use a very miniaturized system like we proposed for research, convert it to our we use then the factory of the future in orbit and get down, let's say, 101 grams of different structures of different small molecules. And from those 1 grams, we can jump to have 2 generations of seeds or masterpieces that came from orbits turned to be 1,000 times more.
And this is the process that had to be a a continue on earth. So what you're telling me or the way it sounds is you are going to be using a sort of crystallization technique where once the molecule is formed in space, you can bring it down to earth, you put it into a laboratory, and you can recrystallize that same molecule using its same orientation, its DNA, its structure, and you can multiple and produce it many times over.
But you do need you do need the original piece to work off of, like, the analogy would be diamonds. Diamonds are being put into a vat, then we're creating diamonds off of the original crystal and structure. Am I am I on target? So we call it. It's very similar. In the pharmaceutical industry, if you want to create, you put it in a liquid. You're right. And those masterpieces replicate around. If it's the same process, probably. Yeah. The to do and I don't know all the details of it.
I haven't studied it. But to when they can take a diamond and they can put it into a lab and then using some type of technique, they can produce or have that diamond recrystallize so that you could produce diamonds with the exact same crystal and structure. You have to have the original. I'm not familiar with this process, but we are dealing with the out process. Okay. How how do you spell the the structure? What do you call how do you spell it? Sid Sid Sid something? Sid, seeding.
So you don't s I d s I d t I n g? Once again, s, double e, d, and then dash, sitting, s, double e, d I n g. Okay. And this procedure is known for very limited people who are dealing with pharmaceuticals. It's kind of a secret, still very com complicated that you but, you know, once you use the masterpieces to create the the the dosage, the big amount, you must come back again and create the 2nd masterpieces in order.
As far as this can be used for no more than 2 to 6 generations, It all depends on the protein that you crystallize all their molecules. So there is no one single solution for this production. You mentioned production in orbit, and this is true. This is our way to enlarge our capacity in orbit and to provide the factory volume creation of products. Okay. So I'm going to read off a a search that I have just done. Scientists create laboratory grown gemstones a little differently.
They start with a naturally mined slice of crystal placed in a crucible container, a liquid mix of ingredients to feed crystal growth is put into the chamber and then, subjected to extremely high temperatures of at least 1,100 degrees Celsius. And then they can create the diamonds. So Yep. It's you're using a technique using a similar where you're taking a similar type of process. You're taking a crystalline structure.
It might be different because you're doing a biological, or a or or a carbon based as compared to a piece of stone. Yes. But you're doing Yeah. You have your own process off of that. Okay. Yeah. So you you had given me in terms of, some of the things we were gonna cover was the protein crystallization and orbit, peptide self assembly, and ACRA neuron extension.
Can you explain let's start from on each one of them, if you could do me a favor and describe what protein is, describe what peptide is and the self and the and the acron when you get to each one of them. Because unless you know what this these are, you've got what I would say the curse of knowledge. You know so much about it. But for someone like me, can you tell me exactly what you're talking about in each one so I know more about what types of possibilities come out of this magic?
Okay. I'll start from the first logical results in orbit. It's a small molecule crystallization. Or some like to say it's protein crystallization, although we know that protein crystallization was not in orbit for many years. At SpacePharmacy, we decided to skip on that and to go directly to small molecules, which are, by weight, less than 500 daltons, which is a very small, weight. Then Less than 500 dalton? How do you dalton? Yes. Dalton.
If you use it in in in in Wikipedia, you can see what is it exactly in Dalton. And, you know, those small molecules on earth are impacted dramatically by gravity. This means that there is no way that those can be free of flotation. And upon that, there's very limited medicines that rely on small molecules, although there is enough market for that. It's about a quarter of a 1000000000 U. S. Dollar annually, but it's a sky ceiling.
No one could push it further and to be able to crystallize more small molecules. So what we decided is to pick those 2 orbits and to try to crystallize them. And apparently, it's happened. We took a set of compounds, which were used by big pharmaceuticals to create a blockbuster medicine, which is a marketed medicine. And we asked them to let us do the same protocol in in orbit in order to compare what's happened within our system compared to their system earlier.
And what's happened is that within less than 10 minutes, we created a very unique crystal that are much big by size. We can understand the molecular structure of the crystals, and we definitely can use those as masterpieces to create the best medicine on Earth, although the masterpieces came from orbit. And this is the small molecule crystallization process, which is very magical, very magical.
I think that when I push the button to execute the experiment in orbit, because it started as a research program, we were astonished to see that those crystals are getting bigger and bigger and bigger and 10 times bigger than the biggest one that you can achieve here now. Taking into a comparison what happened here after 6 years of trials, I think it's a very, very important achievement.
And now we are going to open a factory in orbit to create many of small molecules compounds that will be available for the market and to expand the medicines which are based on small molecules and to help our life here on earth. I think it's So so when I let me see if I can translate this into my own thinking. What you're telling me is be the molecules are being able to produce faster, and the only way I can see that happening is, are the there's a few pieces.
Besides the microgravity, so now you've got molecules that aren't limited by the gravitational pull. The low atmosphere or the no atmosphere, but it's not even low, it's no atmospheric conditions, allow for the reproduction of molecules to happen at a different pace because there's there's nothing in between them. There's no molecules interfering as you would have on earth even if you tried to simulate it.
So my guess is the reason that it can get a lot larger is because there's no interference and molecules can move within space without having to bump into other molecules. That's probably the the answer. Yes. You're right. Okay. I'm I'm not I'm pretending to be a biophysicist up in space, but I don't have a degree in it. Yeah. No one yet. No one has yet, but the reason we're gonna see those new futurism, you know But that that's what that's it. View it is or Yeah. Mission.
It makes it makes sense to me because one of the reasons that you use you will use a condition of 0 atmosphere is because there are variety of benefits. What are several of them including, there's no molecules in there, there you don't have reactions that you would have typically. So if you tried to ignite something, if you're to create an explosion or a a molecule creation on earth, you could it could it could ignite. There's nitrogen there. There's oxygen there.
There's all sorts of, molecules in the air that could be ignited through the combination. But now if you remove all of that, you have nothing there. And a molecule can move that the at the speed it it is being created because there's nothing interfering. There's no, an object in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force, which I think is Newton's 3rd law. 1st or 3rd I think it's 3rd. It would no longer have that there would be nothing in its way.
And this way, it can form and it will not have any there'll be no latency. There'll be no slowing down of the down of the molecule motion. And therefore, the next molecule and the next and the next will be able to build on top of it. So that's my guess. You heard it here, ladies and gentlemen. You heard it here. I'm making it up as we go along. Okay. So so now you've got a protein crystallization in orbit. Is there anything oh, I wanted to tie to this.
Is this you mentioned something about Michael j Fox's blood in space for Parkinson's when I was in Herzliya. Yes. Is this part of the protein crystallization, or is this part of the peptides? This is part of his personal medicine development in orbit to try to build a unique protein and to create a protein that's suitable for his body. I think this is another jump that we are going to experience as a magical thing. Personal, at the beginning, early adopters need a lot of money.
Can go through all this and create something in a personal manner, means for their own suitable for their own diseases, to their own body. So Michael j Fox You didn't realize that I was actually paying attention. I was paying attention to what you were saying. Yes. You are doing great. So so so let me let me add to this. What what Yossi well, actually, Yossi, why don't you say what was happening with Michael j Fox and what they were doing? And I'm assuming it's another company or somebody.
Tell me what went on with Michael J. Fox and what was Right now, it's a foundation. But still they use the, probably, you know, researchers to to to do it. So so they hired a firm like yours to do this in space so that they could, create personalized medicine? Is that would it happen on the International Space Station?
He he's addressing the the the theory behind it is instead of creating a mass marketed product, they're taking Michael j Fox's materials, his blood and samples, and trying to create solutions for Michael j Fox. Probably that's what have been done, and you're absolutely right. It's a very ambitious activity. I think they invested tens of 1,000,000 to be able to generate its own suitable proteins to demonstrate the personal medicines for the first time.
But not everyone can allow it for himself, but we are trying to make it more generic. So our system should take care about, let's say, societies. You don't need 200,000 patients in order to start something which is a commercial. You can rely on less amount of patients and then to provide kind of society or clusters or group of patients to use our system. Well, it's to me, it's a proof of concept Yes.
That Michael j if Michael j Fox can do it for $15,000,000, then then a smaller group can say, okay, that let's use let's use some network analysis. Let's look at groups. And in every in every data set, there are subgroups and groups and groups and groups.
So you could say, okay, we've got people with Parkinson's at this age, in this demographic, in this type of a culture, And maybe there are 14,000 of them in the world, and we can then create a molecule that would fit those 14,000 that have similar characteristics and behavior as a Parkinson's disease. So it's the first off and the most expensive, yet it is a proof of concept that can derive, the need for more manufacturing in space. Okay. Yeah. I think you you got it. Right?
So we've got protein crystallization. What about peptides? What is peptide self assembly? Peptide is a it's a kind of interaction between amino acids. There are 26, I think, in the body and a few others or many others that created outside of the body, engineered outside of the body. If you take 2 or more and you try to, you know, to manage them to structure, you cannot achieve any structure on earth. You get needles, and this is very frustrating as those needles are not useful for anything.
And what we achieved in Orbit, actually, we took 2 amino acids and let them mix, use. And apparently, we got a very delicate kind of balls, folded shapes with many lines together, and even a very delicate spectra around in between. So it started with the edges of purple and then go to blue. And at the middle, it was very white light.
So now we know that in microgravity, you can create delicate structures of 2 or more amino acids that can be folded and then be used for material science, medicine, and even food in different manners. And this is, I think, one of the great achievements that we have in orbit within our first mission. So this is the peptide self assembly very. And just, I I looked it up. There are 20 amino acids that are important to your health. Only Yeah. Only 9 amino acids are classified as essential.
Just to give some numbers Yeah. And so we we are trying to to to to work with those and to add those to different kind of food, medicines, improvements, and this is one of the top priority activities within our miniaturized laboratory company.
So when when you're looking at your list of protein crystallization, prote peptides, and acon neuron extension, is this this is the one that you feel has the best the way you're making it sound, is this the one that makes us appear to have the best opportunities? Yes. Those are the success stories that we already can demonstrate to our partners, our clients, to the market, and that, you know, if you want to go inside, you you should rely on the old success story and to progress.
We but, you know, we have some failures. Sometimes things are not executed as we planned. I can tell you something which is very unique for sure. All of our expectation results that we built with our clients and internally were different from the outcome that we achieved in order. I think that tells something unique that we really don't understand how things executed or happened or why those turn to be this shape or this structure or whatever it is under microgravity extreme conditions.
And this is the beauty of the researchers, the people who are willing to invest and to investigate and to research and to bring new things. I think humanity and mankind are going to be improved. There are no knowledge of new materials, new compounds, new medicines created in of it. And this is the beauty, and we like it. You know, it's the as you're saying this, I'm gonna go to the dark side for a moment. Not the dark side the far side of the moon, but the dark side.
Mhmm. What you just described to me, the way you had brought it up, it triggered in me the fact that we we don't know how, humans will reproduce in space because of just exactly what you've said. We don't know if it will reproduce we will reproduce the same way. We don't know how cells will reproduce over extended period of time in space, not low earth low earth orbit. But in, outer space, we don't know.
And what you're seeing is the positive to bring back to Earth, which is, as you know, is part of the project Moon Hut initiative is to change how we live on Earth by using space Mhmm. Space tech. But at the same time, I'm saying, oh my god. This could be a challenge because you're seeing the impact of molecular, combinations that are not what you expect. So we could end up you could also, at the same time, be describing what's a future for Earth.
You could also be outlining the negatives for humans in space. Yes. You definitely describe it right. We don't know enough, to survive the way to mitigate the challenges and to use the appropriate chemicals, compounds on the way medicines, on the way food creation, and lifestyle for our bodies' needs and so on, It's still a risk. I think this is the main reason that we don't see enough people going to far destinations and new planets. The moon even the moon is a huge challenge, as you know.
But we will work it out. We will create, we will improve, and we will engineer the molecules, the cells to survive the journey, to survive the impact of the gravity, to survive the radiation, and to make it, at the end, a successful journey. And as you know, I hope we do it fast enough because I think there are things looming on the horizon which won't make us get there the way we would like to. So let's go on to this axon neuron extension. Yeah. Actually, this explained Yes. Go ahead. Explain.
I'll explain it to you. The axons are or the neurons are sensors that here on earth stay on the same length, so there is no way to extend those. Apparently, we use the microgravity to try to extend actually, we did not know that it's gonna work. Right? We started the the experiment, and we let actions to grow within our miniaturized organ on a chip, which is a credit card sized laboratory, which is within our 3U lab. So we have many of those placed in inside.
So we still keep shrinking in other devices. And apparently, those actions grow sometimes 2 times within 48 hours. So actually, they were doubled. Now we are trying to investigate why those actions became very healthy, very big, very large. And to analyze it, probably to declutter the genes and and and the other conditions that were replacing. But this is amazing because no one here on Earth can extend neurons or or actions.
It doesn't say that we are going to to operate people now and to connect, you know, if you have a cut in your leg or if you had a an injury in your car accident, and you and you lost your senses, your feeling in your body, so you can still use your actions and connect 2 points. This is not the story. The story is a little bit complicated, and we are trying to find a way to enlarge actions to improve, operation. Okay? So let me let let me just interject for a minute.
So a neuron is a, it's part of a nerve cell, and it's the part that moves electrical impulses through your body. Mhmm. And there's part of the nerve fiber. So what you're talking about because I don't know that most people are very familiar with what an axon is. So the axon then will, if you can create an axon and or at least be able to generate 1, you've got your you're in one position. You're very far ahead. But to be able to make it grow double is a big question of why.
Scientifically, why does that happen and what's the value in that? Sure. It's still it is still under investigation, but we definitely know how to extend neurons in action. So that means that if in the future, if we're capable of extending neurons, we could take somebody who's had a a severed something.
Mhmm. We might be able to create that nerve in space, bring it back down to earth, and then potentially, again, this is a little sci fi here or a little, surreal, is we can then take that nerve and input it back into a human to connect the body parts again. Is that what we're talking about? This is this is the simple way to describe it. Yes. First of all, it's a huge discovery that the axons can be grown and doubled by by by length within less than 48 hours.
Then we need to to to work out with the the surgeries and to to see what can be done with this achievement. We are not clear on the on the outcome. So that's why when we're talking about your 3 the protein peptide and axon, you're focusing on the peptide because that's got the biggest opportunity on a on a market space. So Sure. When you look at the when you look at today, the global opportunities for a company like yours, and this is I'm not trying to fluff up numbers and make you sound good.
What I'm trying to figure out is what do you see the market opportunities for this type of product being or and will you see many other competitors in your space in a short period of time once all of this is released? I think the market is huge. We just accomplished a recent assessment, and we recognize that the market is willing for new technology and seeking and very keen to adopt this.
But, you know, it all depend on the market digestion process and duration, how long it's gonna take to the market to adopt it completely or at least 50% of the technology that we're proposing. The market is big. It's huge. I think it's refreshing. I was even surprised to see the figures. I do see some obstacles. As you know, big companies already developed their supply chain, production line, distribution, so they don't jump on any discovery or any new technology.
They need to cover their own expenses, and we need to be ready to replace their current expenses and technology with our technology. So it's a kind of a a dance, with the market. Let them, you know, test it and make a pilot then to adopt, adopt it completely. It will take time. I would I I I would look at it very differently than what you're saying, and excuse me for interjecting here in this, is that your product is very similar to the beginnings of, 3 d printing.
When 3 d printing was first created in the manufacturing sector, it was it took the place of creating prototypes. So it was rapid prototyping. Mhmm. And it sat in another space in another room where the designers would create something, build it, prototype it, and then say, is this what we're looking for? Yeah. I see yours not evolutionizing the supply chain. What I see it doing is saying, okay. You're trying to find new molecules, new solutions, new challenges.
Use ours as one of those testing grounds because we can proof of concept. We can give you what works and what doesn't. And then if in fact you believe the supply chain should be created off of it, you can then modify, not completely, overhaul, but you can modify portions of your product development cycle. So you got, cosmetics. Sure. You've got, medicine. You've got all of these categories you've you worked on.
So if I was a, a pharmaceutical company, I could come to you and say, let's try this proof of concept, 3 d print, see how it works. And And then I would go to the next and the next. So I would say you should interject yourself into the r and d component, not into the supply chain and start there, and that will rapidly grow. Because within 5 to 7 years, you will have the manufacturing capability and you'll have, enough series of successes that people will say, okay.
Let's let's increase the scale. I agree with you. Yes. This is how it's supposed to be.
We will approach actually our expanding the plan or strategic planning with colleagues to more discussions with the r and d sector within the companies, the r and d departments and the r and d people, and to propose them, as you just mentioned, a very new technology to expedite things, to improve things, to make it differently, and, of course, generate revenue and bring health, food, and life better life here here on Earth on Earth.
I I I've got to believe when we take a look at, for example, the automotive industry, when they create a car Mhmm. Prototype car, that's for futuristic, they spend 1,000,000 of dollars on it. I've gotta believe that pharmaceutical companies or any of the other categories, food services, are also spending 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of dollars. It becomes the it becomes the angle in which you present it that becomes really where the value base is. So, cool.
I think there's some some neat pieces here or neat, pieces of information that I've taken away. Mhmm. What when you look at the space industry, what's the biggest challenge you see happening today? I think the base the space industry is changing. First of all, there are many new players.
You can see much more launchers, that used to be owned by space agencies, governments, consortium, like Arianespas or ULA or Northrop Grumman, now turns to be SpaceX and the others from the States start to be owned by billionaires, like Richard Branson with Virgin Space or Virgin Galactic and Jeff Bezos and John Allen, who passed recently but passed away, but still have his dreams ongoing. But many small vehicles turn to be a very aggressive movement in the launch industry.
So we're gonna see a lot of small rockets, launchers, going to orbit, to LEO, which is low elevation orbit. I can mention one of them, which is Rocket Lab, but you can have also vectors, fireflies, and others. But more than 100 entities are aiming to hit this or to exceed atmosphere. That helps SpacePharma, definitely. We can rely on we can shop. Right? We can go in shops. Well, one of the challenges that I've been seeing is that we have so many people involved in the rocketry space.
There's not enough business to be able to support them at the moment. So it it does there's too many, as some people believe. I'm not exactly sure. I haven't analyzed it. The other one is with with Alan dying, and maybe you've read something differently, but I've heard they've scaled back a lot of his space based projects. Yeah. Because they they and then we had we had, what's his name?
We had, Deep Space Industry was absorbed and closed more or less, and they're not gonna be doing space mining and neither is Planet Resources. So I'm not exactly sure where we're going with this, but I'm gonna tell you that today Yes. Today, it's gonna be free. The the the the we have too many entities dealing with launching. I do see this market adjusting to the demand. It's happened like the dotcom with the Internet and even the 3 d printing.
Not everyone can survive, and the best will survive. The rest will defocus or fade out from the market. That's the reason that SpacePharm actually relying on those. We are now developing a launcher, which is a very expensive business with a very limited market today. On the other hand, we are not building the CubeSat. We are integrating our laboratory, a delicate laboratory, into any space vehicle. It can be a mini shuttle. It can be the International Space Station. It can be a sonic rocket.
And that is fascinating because we are keeping the smart things shrinked within our system with communication and, of course, with all the liquid handling system, the lab on a chip, organ on a chip devices, sensors, and that is a direct intervene of the client. I think this is a smart way of dealing with the opportunity to hitchhike or piggyback on others, and on the other hand, to deliver something which is very fruitful economically wise to this that never spoke microgravity. Let's be honest.
Our intent, SpacePharma's intent is to provide the technology to non space players, like food industry, agro technology, chemicals, those stick to the ground. And the reason that they are dealing with the non space technology is what the cost and sometimes even the IP that they lose it for the owners of the space cost. And I hope that will change the market. It's you know, sometimes people expect things to create faster or happen, or to be expedited dramatically.
I think it should be expedited appropriately. So it will take time, but we should be there. Well, I'm I'm hoping that we exit with Project Moon Hut Foundation. I hope we expedite it faster. So, Yossi, thank you very much for being on the program. I appreciate you taking the time to put together the content that we've been learning about. I appreciate it tremendously.
For everybody else, this, Project Moon Hut is, going on approximately a 5 year project with such a small team at NASA in in Silicon Valley region, and we wanna collectively change how we live on earth. And our directive is we'd like to create sustainable life on the moon, not self sustaining life, through the accelerated development of an earth and space based ecosystem to change how we live on earth for all species. We're not gonna take 7,500,000,000 people and ship them to other planets.
Right. So we have to take care of the one place that we know, that where we live, we have to we have to keep it going. So for those of you who have not checked it out, you can go to project moon hot dot org, sign up for our space related database so we know we are out there. We've also got facebook.comprojectmoonhot. We've got to connect with Twitter at at project moon hut. And obviously, you've got the ability, the age of infinite podcast. So hopefully, you'll listen to others.
So I'm David Goldsmith, and thank you for listening.