#18 - The Science of Sleep

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;04;04 Unknown Background music 00;00;04;10 - 00;00;14;10 Darius Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Age Differently Meaningful Conversations for men. My name is Darius Naigamwalla, and I'm here with my co-host Peter Calin Peter, how are you today? 00;00;14;11 - 00;00;14;14 Peter I'm 00;00;14;14 - 00;00;27;26 Peter doing great. Darius. Always, a joy to see you. And always the, joy to have the audience listen to these podcasts and hope that one person perhaps takes something impactful away. 00;00;27;29 - 00;00;41;04 Darius Absolutely. And today's topic is something where you and I have different perspectives on. I think that lends to the joy of the conversation, and that is unlocking the power of sleep to realizing a joyful and healthy and vibrant life. 00;00;41;04 - 00;01;00;17 Peter Yeah, I would say different perspectives is an understatement, to be honest with you. We have different ways that we engage in this topic, this this activity of sleep. And again, it just kind of reflects this. No one way we're, you know, trying to promote or identify as suitable for everybody. 00;01;00;20 - 00;01;22;26 Darius And we're so today we're going to talk about four things. One, we're going to talk about a little bit of the basic science of sleep. Two, we're going to introduce some common sleep problems. Three we're going to go through some tangible steps that we've experimented with, we've incorporated to get a better night's sleep. And then finally we're going to close with, our usual call to action or in this case, a call to rest. 00;01;22;26 - 00;01;38;24 Darius I couldn't sleep. But before we get started, I think we need to, note for everybody listening. We're not physicians. This is not medical advice. If you have a serious issue, obviously engage with your health care practitioner. This is for educational purposes only. 00;01;38;29 - 00;01;51;26 Peter Yeah. We're just sharing our own experiences between the two of us. We've lived on this planet for 120 years. And so we've had a few moments where we've learned a few things as we continue to try to do, every day. 00;01;51;28 - 00;02;01;01 Darius You know, Peter, 123 years, 365 days a year, it's almost 40,000 times you and I have had to practice the science of sleep. 00;02;01;07 - 00;02;01;21 Peter Yeah. 00;02;01;21 - 00;02;03;02 Darius So there's a lot that's a little bit of. 00;02;03;02 - 00;02;06;02 Peter I'm impressed with your quick math there, Darius. 00;02;06;04 - 00;02;26;12 Darius Well, I hope it's all right. So let's talk about the importance of sleep. I remember when I was growing up, sleep was always thought of as something that was not needed. It's not important, you know, we're going to live well, we're alive, and we're going to sleep well. We're dead. But over the last couple of months, actually, the recent science has indicated the exact opposite. 00;02;26;12 - 00;02;32;04 Darius Sleep is just paramount to your overall physical, mental and emotional well-being. 00;02;32;04 - 00;02;33;25 Peter So yes, yes it is. 00;02;34;01 - 00;02;40;13 Darius So talk to me about some of the different stages, of sleep that people go through during a typical night. 00;02;40;15 - 00;03;17;17 Peter Well, I'll share with you that, you fall asleep. I fall asleep on my usual late night, around 130 or so. And for me, six hours of sleep seems to be enough. Although the recommended amount of duration is 7 to 8 hours. I, I don't know if it's the aging process. I'm not sure that I think I've always had a tendency to sleep anywhere from 4 to 6 hours per night. 00;03;17;19 - 00;03;42;16 Peter I do know that when I was younger, it was kind of a conditioning, badge of honor, that you slept less and worked harder and played harder. And sleep was just discounted. As you said, science has changed our perception. My perception of that, the importance of sleep is just, obvious and and, Something that just can't be discounted. 00;03;42;18 - 00;04;02;26 Darius Yeah. So there's different phases. You have your deep sleep, which is where the brain is doing all its cleaning up. You have the light sleep where the body's resting, and then you also have REM sleep. And that's the spot where you're dreaming. But I think what you're talking about is the duration of the sleep. And the duration of sleep is just highly variable by individual. 00;04;02;29 - 00;04;21;14 Darius And you're talking about getting by on 4 to 6 hours. If I were to try and get by on 4 to 6 hours, it wouldn't work. 7 to 9 and a good solid 7 to 9 is what my body needs. And it hasn't really changed as I've gotten older. That's been pretty consistent from when maybe when I was a teenager, I would sleep even more. 00;04;21;14 - 00;04;25;20 Darius Thinking back, that's pretty consistent. 7 to 9 hours is what I need. 00;04;25;22 - 00;04;48;24 Peter Yeah, I think it's variable too. It's not just an age differential. Sometimes the activity levels that you're engaging in, the whatever it's going on in your life in the context of your daily activities, can affect your sleep, your need for sleep. Working out, sometimes there were times where I would be training and I would sleep less. 00;04;48;26 - 00;05;09;16 Peter It was like my body was engaging in hyperdrive and fine with it. I think the body tells you what it needs in the way of sleep. Over the years, I've become a napper. And so when I need to take time to just rest, I'll just pause and take a nap for anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 hours. 00;05;09;19 - 00;05;34;28 Darius That's so important to do, Peter, because sleep impacts everything from your cognitive function to your mood, to your physical health. Think about how you feel after you've got maybe an hour or two hours of sleep, or you haven't gotten that restful night. The next day. You know you're not firing on all capacity. You're struggling at some facet, and then maybe you're one of those guys or gals that can get by with a couple of nights, but sooner or later it does catch up to you. 00;05;35;00 - 00;05;40;11 Darius Yeah. So what are some of the common sleep problems that people encounter? 00;05;40;13 - 00;05;44;03 Peter Well, there are people who can't sleep. 00;05;44;03 - 00;05;45;11 Darius Insomnia or. 00;05;45;13 - 00;06;05;21 Peter Insomnia. There are people who. Hold their breath, don't take a breath. Sleep apnea when they're sleeping. And that can be dangerous. And it's a condition that, you know, requires medical attention. I don't know. Beyond that. Those are the ones I'm most familiar with. 00;06;05;26 - 00;06;07;19 Darius You got restless leg syndrome. 00;06;07;21 - 00;06;08;04 Peter Oh, yeah. 00;06;08;04 - 00;06;30;26 Darius His legs move of their own volition while you're sleeping. You have an inability to stay asleep so you can fall asleep quickly, but wake up consistently and frequently and for extended periods of time. And I think what's overlooked, Peter, is the effect of your mood on sleep, the impact of stress, the impact of anxiety on how you are sleeping and the quality of your sleep. 00;06;30;27 - 00;06;45;29 Peter You know, we've talked about stress in each and every one of our episodes. It seems stress affects sleep adversely. And so again, managing mitigating stress is something that I keep highlighting no matter how many times we have to address it. 00;06;46;01 - 00;07;08;09 Darius Yeah, I think there's some key questions that our, our listeners should just kind of take a step back and pause and reflect on. Do you struggle to fall asleep too? Do you struggle to stay asleep? Are you waking up frequently? After being in bed overnight, do you wake up feeling tired? Even though you've been in for the 7 or 8 hours? 00;07;08;11 - 00;07;30;08 Darius And then finally, what do you believe is contributing to your sleep issues? Because it's it's like, you're an investigator, you're a detective. You have to piece together the factors. It could be diet, it could be relationships, it could be technology, it could be exercise, it could be stress. It could be a myriad of those factors all integrated together. 00;07;30;10 - 00;07;34;07 Darius What is contributing to those nights where you're not getting a good night's rest? 00;07;34;07 - 00;07;57;07 Peter in the context of waking up tired, my experience has been that when I have deep sleep, I'm able to, function a hell of a lot better throughout the day than if there's just been light sleep. And, you know, both of us have used, now devices, the oring, to kind of track our sleep. 00;07;57;07 - 00;08;22;26 Peter Assure listeners during the ordering. There it is. Yeah. And it's been quite helpful in kind of identifying the the kind of sleep that I get throughout the night. And so it's a tool that helps me identify if I'm getting deep sleep. And the likelihood is that I'm not going to be as tired if I'm just getting REM sleep or if I'm getting some REM sleep. 00;08;22;26 - 00;08;32;02 Peter And again, I've noticed that the different levels of REM sleep, that I feel much more mentally awake throughout the day. So that's my own experience, and I wanted to share that. 00;08;32;04 - 00;08;52;05 Darius So let's start. You've transitioned to let's talk about what are some of the factors that go into getting that good night's rest, some tangible steps that can be done. And I think the first thing I'll touch on and then I'll pass it over to you, is listening to your circadian rhythms and understanding your body when it needs rest. 00;08;52;08 - 00;09;13;17 Darius For me personally, my circadian rhythms are I need to be in bed by 10:00 and I'll wake up somewhere around 530 or 6 by 1030. I'm getting increasingly tired. By 11:00, I'm functioning and I can just feel the energy going out. I'm a morning person. I've always been a morning person. The sun comes up, I'm ready to go. 00;09;13;19 - 00;09;15;05 Darius You're circadian rhythm. 00;09;15;08 - 00;09;16;20 Peter It's quite different, very different. 00;09;16;24 - 00;09;17;13 Darius It's yours. 00;09;17;13 - 00;09;41;03 Peter And late nights and before I had an offering, before I was tracking sleep, it just late nights. Just felt best for me. I was most productive at that time. And, I'm I'm sure there are other people in the audience who are also late night, people. And I find that going to bed at 130 is consistent with my circadian rhythm. 00;09;41;05 - 00;09;53;17 Peter 130 in the morning, 12 1230 and then waking up early is just really challenging, you know? But I will do it after six hours or so. 00;09;53;19 - 00;10;06;26 Darius Yeah. Now, do you one of the best practices that I've read about is going to sleep at the same time, regardless of when it's whether it's 130, whether it's two, whether it's a nine, is that something you try and adhere to as well? 00;10;06;28 - 00;10;10;10 Peter At times? 00;10;10;13 - 00;10;32;20 Peter And this is where, you know, you know, I, I have to confess that my sleep habits aren't the best and that, you know, they're not something to be modeled, but I do know the importance of it. And, and this is where I think I would share that we each have to kind of listen to our body and, and figure out what works for us. 00;10;32;23 - 00;10;42;26 Peter I have maintained health despite this sleep pattern, so figuring out what works for you in the way of sleep is super, super important. And that's what I think we're talking about here. 00;10;42;27 - 00;11;08;20 Darius Absolutely agree. One of the things that I like to incorporate is a routine to get ready to go to bed. So that my mind and my body knows that it's time, and I find it helps to fall asleep. I learned that really when I was young. I remember one time I stayed up working very later studying, and I went right from studying to bed that entire night because there is no break between my brain shutting off. 00;11;08;26 - 00;11;28;17 Darius I dreamed about what I had been studying on some kind of obscure biochemistry, so there was no period for the brain to wind down, and I didn't get the rest that I needed. That's when I learned the importance of some kind of routine. At least for me, to help transition from the activities of the day to preparing the body to rest and recover. 00;11;28;21 - 00;11;49;24 Peter Yeah. And the routine that I use is meditation. And it's not a long meditation. Sometimes it's 5 to 10 minutes, sometimes it's a minute of just before I finally lay down to sleep. I pause and I try to quiet my mind. So that is when one practice that I've engaged in for quite some time. 00;11;49;28 - 00;11;57;03 Darius That's so healthy meditation, journaling, a hot bath, something for you to reflect and just slow. 00;11;57;03 - 00;11;59;22 Peter To unwind and stop the mind. 00;11;59;25 - 00;12;20;07 Darius So that you can actually sleep. And another thing that I really focus on is the the atmosphere, the environment of the room. I like cool, I like dark, and I also have taken the sleeping with a fan so that you don't hear street noises. You don't hear the the clangs and bangs. I live in New England. I have an old steam system in my house. 00;12;20;09 - 00;12;29;02 Darius When he comes on, you hear it? I don't want to hear it. I want to be able to sleep through without distraction is to get in and stay in that deep sleep. 00;12;29;04 - 00;12;39;05 Peter Yeah. Those are important factors. I think most people need it to be dark I don't know, I don't know too many people who can sleep with lights on. 00;12;39;08 - 00;12;52;01 Darius And what about food and drink Peter what have you experimented with and what have you learned with respect to the timing, the content and its impact on sleep for you? Well. 00;12;52;04 - 00;13;13;28 Peter One of the foods to avoid, and this is quite obvious, is caffeine too close to sleep? Time for bedtime. So we, you know, we I try to avoid the caffeine. I don't drink a lot of caffeine, but even something as subtle as green tea and teas can keep you awake will keep me awake late into the night. There are foods that help with sleep. 00;13;14;00 - 00;13;15;25 Peter Tuna fish is one of those. 00;13;15;29 - 00;13;16;18 Darius I didn't know. 00;13;16;18 - 00;13;22;06 Peter That. Yeah. Is it has. I think it's called tryptophan, which is a chemical that helps. 00;13;22;08 - 00;13;23;17 Darius That that was in Turkey. 00;13;23;20 - 00;13;24;13 Peter Turkey as well. 00;13;24;20 - 00;13;27;13 Darius Yeah. The branch chain amino acid. Yeah. 00;13;27;15 - 00;13;44;29 Peter Yeah. So those foods are helpful. And I'm trying to think the other ones that, melatonin and and you know, melatonin is very helpful in inducing sleep as well. But that's a more of a nutrient supplement. Those are the ones I've used. 00;13;45;01 - 00;13;55;24 Darius What about, I've read a lot recently on the impact of screens and looking at either your device or a tablet or a TV. 00;13;55;26 - 00;13;56;19 Peter Probably the worst. 00;13;56;25 - 00;13;58;10 Darius Yeah. Explain. Who do you think? 00;13;58;13 - 00;14;30;26 Peter Well, that blue light, it's counter inducing of sleep. It's prohibiting sleep. It keeps the mind very active, and it doesn't help with falling asleep. And so engaging and looking at your screens, your your phones, your iPads, even a computer, before you lay down again without that pause, it's going to keep you from falling asleep. And so probably suggest not to engage in that activity before you're trying to go to sleep. 00;14;30;27 - 00;14;56;12 Darius And that makes sense. I mean, the screens are blue light, the body thinks blue light is day. And so your normal circadian rhythms are being disrupted by looking at the screens. The other thing that I've noticed is, rather than mindless sleep checking out and watching some show, take that time to journal. Take that time to reflect on the day. 00;14;56;12 - 00;15;10;07 Darius Take the time to meditate, to help with that transition. And if you're going to watch TV or a screen, absolutely don't have it in the bedroom. I mean, that's something that I just I just don't understand. Well, we can't. 00;15;10;11 - 00;15;24;18 Peter Can we talk about that for a second because I'm like so aghast when a client or a friend tells me that they're watching the news before they go to bed. 00;15;24;20 - 00;15;26;06 Darius In their bed. 00;15;26;09 - 00;15;58;20 Peter In their bed, even worse. I mean, think about it. Yeah. You're watching something negative. More than likely something controversial. And then that's the last imprint in your mind before you fall asleep. Some of the horrors or the chaos of what's happened in your community or to another human being. So I would I would kind of try to emphasize that, watching TV before going to sleep is just it's just, terrible. 00;15;58;22 - 00;16;02;08 Peter Terrible for your health and well-being and your sleep. 00;16;02;10 - 00;16;25;08 Darius I just I agree with you, and I'll take it to a more practical level, is if you're going to do it, which is your choice, at least buy some blue light blocking glasses, put them on so that your body isn't being stimulated, and think that it's daylight, or at least your body will start to wind down, and that natural melatonin will start to rise up. 00;16;25;11 - 00;16;33;25 Darius What about drinking water? Alcohol? You mentioned caffeine. What about other thoughts on consumption of fluids? 00;16;33;27 - 00;16;42;26 Peter You know, it's funny. Alcohol is supposedly calming and and relaxing, but it's prohibitive in terms of helping you get to sleep and stay asleep. 00;16;42;26 - 00;16;44;28 Darius It's terrible. Yeah. 00;16;45;01 - 00;17;01;23 Peter And water. You know, water, I think is one of those things where it's an age consideration. Some people whose bowels can hold the water throughout the night, they don't have to worry about it as you get older. I've experienced this off and on, abdomen flowing. 00;17;01;25 - 00;17;03;03 Darius Being flowing. Yeah. 00;17;03;06 - 00;17;19;18 Peter That's well-said there are nights where it doesn't matter. I could drink a gallon of water and I'll. I'll hold it until the morning. Yeah, and then there are nights where it doesn't work real well, and it it has me up and down, and that's not good for a good night's sleep. 00;17;19;26 - 00;17;38;19 Darius Yeah. So that's something to be considered of the timing of fluid intake. Obviously avoid caffeine, avoid alcohol. Think about the timing and how your bladder is doing. If you don't have bladder issues then that's fine. But if you do have a smaller bladder or if you're getting to, you're finding the need to get up in your name more frequently. 00;17;38;19 - 00;18;04;13 Darius I will then taper your water intake during the day so that it stops, so you have time to evacuate your bladder multiple times before going to sleep. Exercise. You mentioned exercise and how it requires you to have less sleep. I have the opposite when I lift heavy or when I start exercising. If I've spent two hours on the water surfing out at the gym or running, I'm going to sleep that night. 00;18;04;13 - 00;18;15;16 Darius I'm going to sleep. Sound. I'm going to sleep longer. So I find it interesting, fascinating. The Spock would say that you get by on less sleep exerting the body. 00;18;15;18 - 00;18;51;19 Peter You know, you just reminded me that, there is another factor at play here for me. I'm a practitioner of yoga and meditation and some of the benefits of meditating may be that you, you rest the mind. You sued the body. And so some of the restorative and recuperative aspects of sleep, perhaps, I think I believe it happens for me through meditation. 00;18;51;22 - 00;19;15;06 Peter And so there's a there's another time factor that gets introduced for someone like me, I believe, where I don't need as many hours of sleep because I have a practice of meditation where a lot of the things we do to restore the body and the mind resting, I can do when I'm doing a practice of meditation. 00;19;15;08 - 00;19;49;25 Darius Very true, very true. So just really emphasizing Peter and I are not physicians. We are not giving health advice to anyone. This is just based on our experience, our findings with how many nights there is a 40,000 nights of falling asleep. So to kind of win this episode down a little bit, what we're summarizing is that sleep is an incredibly important tool in your overall wellness regimen. 00;19;49;27 - 00;20;12;28 Darius It is important to listen to your body to determine the amount of sleep, the time of sleep and the variability. There's going to be times during the year where you're going to need more because there's things going on. There's going to be times where you need less. If you're not sleeping well, we need to investigate to understand why. 00;20;13;00 - 00;20;37;04 Darius It could be diet, could be stress, could be relationships, could be exercise, could be something on your mind. Could be how you're sleeping, where you're sleeping. Temperature. I mean, it's you're going to play Jacques Cousteau or whoever the investigator was. And then there's a number of different potential tangible steps that you could take if you choose to improve your sleep there. 00;20;37;11 - 00;21;11;01 Peter There are that you we've mentioned them. We've highlighted some of them are nutrition. Hydration, meditation. And there are others that if people can discover, that are out there as well, and tracking and just being aware, I think is what we're trying to emphasize here. That's not discounting the importance of sleep. It's so important to your the quality of your life, your living, your health and well-being, just as you said. 00;21;11;03 - 00;21;36;29 Darius Right. And it's just it's not like there is going to be a maybe there is a one change that you make, and all of a sudden you go from being an insomniac to sleeping seven hours solid. In my experience, there's a series of small incremental changes which, taken over time, add to something bigger. Because when I see people, I can talk from my own perspective. 00;21;37;01 - 00;22;07;12 Darius If I haven't slept right for 2 or 3 days, I notice an impact on my ability to function mentally. Not as sharp as I normally am. I notice an impact on my emotional well-being. My patience levels are down, my irritability level is much higher, and I routinely apologize to people in advance. I'm cranky today. I'm cranky because I haven't slept, so I'm going to apologize if I say or I'm not acting like myself. 00;22;07;14 - 00;22;22;02 Darius And then I also notice that the physical function, my ability to perform some of the tasks that I would like to do requires either more effort or is just not possible. So it has a major impact, at least for me, no question. 00;22;22;05 - 00;22;23;11 Peter Okay. 00;22;23;13 - 00;22;35;16 Darius So Peter, any words or a poem on the importance of sleep? And I know we haven't talked about dreaming and the importance of dreaming. 00;22;35;18 - 00;22;38;05 Peter But dreaming is a whole nother conversation. 00;22;38;05 - 00;22;39;05 Darius Different conversation. 00;22;39;06 - 00;22;49;17 Peter Yeah. Sleep though is, more we're talking about mental and physical well-being. And I'll share this. 00;22;49;17 - 00;22;50;14 Darius Quote place. 00;22;50;14 - 00;23;05;22 Peter Part of what we're talking about here. Sleep is the golden chain that binds your health and your body. 00;23;05;24 - 00;23;38;19 Darius Thoughts so powerful, so appropriate. So our call to action for those listening is pretty simple. Prioritize sleep as a portion of your self-care regimen and find one thing to do one. Experiment. Undertake on yourself to try and improve the overall quality of your sleep. Once that's done, notice. Observe the impact that it has had and if it's working, obviously continue. 00;23;38;19 - 00;23;41;26 Darius If it's not, stop and try something else. 00;23;41;26 - 00;23;55;29 Peter Yes, yes. Again, highlighting. Make sure you're paying attention. Being aware and then being present in your life and making adjustments that need to be there. 00;23;56;01 - 00;24;19;04 Darius Wonderful. Well, Peter, thank you listeners. Thank you. Do you have any questions or comments. Go to age differently.com. We would love to hear from you. Also the show notes will be available on the website as well. And stay tuned. We'll be having our next episode which is going to be focused on winning in corporate America. How to. 00;24;19;06 - 00;24;20;09 Peter Be so interesting. 00;24;20;09 - 00;24;29;23 Darius How to succeed while also, you know, thriving physically, mentally and emotionally outside of the office. 00;24;29;23 - 00;24;31;28 Darius Peter, thank you so much. 00;24;32;00 - 00;24;33;12 Peter My pleasure. Good to see you. 00;24;33;16 - 00;24;37;06 Darius You too. Until next time. Next time. Thank you everybody.