Why the third-place World Cup match is secretly awesome. Plus, answering listener questions!

You know what I love about Croatian fans? The water polo caps.

Because it is, I think, objectively just a bad look on anybody. Unless you're standing in a pool and you're a chiseled rock of water polo athleticism, it's just a dumb look. Now, yes, it also is very meaningful to Croatia because their water polo team…

Yeah, which is-- Can I just, sorry, it just-- Intercept there. I mean, analyzing hat wear is about as third place playoff a kind of analysis as I think I've ever heard. Carry on.

From Apple News and Meadowlark Media, I'm Brendan Hunt.

And I'm Rebecca Lowe. And this is "After the Whistle."

Reminder. There will be adult fucking language.

Quite a lot of it today. I'm not gonna lie. On today's episode, we cover, albeit briefly, the third place match between Morocco and Croatia before we look ahead to the biggest event in sport, the World Cup final.

We'll also answer some lovely questions from our lovely listeners. It's almost here, the World Cup final. I can't wait.

Hi, Rebecca.

Hello.

It's third place game day.

Oh, doesn't everyone love a third place game day? [LAUGHS]

Oh my gosh. It's… It's a harbinger of, you know, final day. In my opinion, it is a wonderful quirk of the World Cup and I've gone back and forth on this over the years, lemme know where you're at, but on the one hand it's, like, why the fuck-- These people just lost a semi-final and then you make them play another game when they would rather be going home. But I've really gotten to the point of like, you know what? I fucking love the third place game.

Why?

Give me one extra low stakes, medium intensity. Everyone's shaking hands, old time hockey Gordie Howe and soda pops, third-place game. That is, you know… The smaller the country, the more meaningful it is. But the bigger the country, the bigger the event. So you kind of can't go wrong. Have I watched all 90 minutes of a third place game ever before today? No, but I love knowing that those 90 minutes are happening.

[LAUGHS] It's so funny, actually, today's was a little bit more intense, wasn't it, than most third place-- I mean, like you, very few minutes of a third place playoff in the history of my life. But from those few minutes that I have witnessed down the years, obviously England was actually a part of it in 2018. That was disappointing. But it was third place so you very quickly shrug it off. But this one, I think it was because Morocco have just brought so much and they have just, I don't know their support as well. The atmospheres have not been the best in the stadium at this World Cup. But whenever Morocco play, it's magic. So I think that helped today. Even though they lost and at the end they were surrounding the ref like they were Manchester United of 1999.

[LAUGHS] Yeah. There was actual passion there. And for the neutral too, like, I mean, we're already behind Morocco so much, but in this game, 'cause neutrals have also been behind Croatia, I would think. But in this game, Croatia, you've been third place. Atlas Lions forever! As of today! Had there been a tattoo artist in the pub, I'd have a Morocco tattoo right now. But it was not to be. Wiser heads prevailed and really football's the winner. I suppose we should talk through this game a little bit. This incredibly inconsequential, easily forgotten tomorrow…

I mean, yeah. When you say little bit, let's definitely go with that word little, because I just basically don't have a huge amount on it other than when Morocco came close in that 90 something-th minute. I was, dare I say it, a little selfish at that moment, I was actually quite happy it didn't go to extra time. Is that fair? I was like, I mean, I kinda want you to score, but I really don't want another half an hour. I'm not gonna lie. [LAUGHS]

Yeah, yeah. When there's no stakes and we go to extra time, it's like, "Oh, come on. No, don't do this, don't do this."

They should actually make third place playoff the only game of the World Cup that goes straight to penalties because really nobody needs the extra half an hour. And I quite like the going straight to penalties thing now that they've incorporated that into, I think, the League Cup in England. So just have that one game. For that one game, there is no extra time because we don't need it. If it's coming up to 80 minutes, let's play for pens. 'Cause then it's exciting. 'Cause it doesn't really matter, but it's still penalties, which are always fun.

Yeah. Like having it for the League Cup is a real sense of like, hey, third tier tournament, know thyself. You know, League Cup looking in the mirror and saying, "You don't want 30 more minutes of us. You don't want 30 more minutes of us. At least not till Wembley. Come on. Just fucking take it. Just let's get on with this thing." So the third place game reflecting that would be a great show of honesty and self appraisement from FIFA that would not be characteristic of them, which is why it will never happen. But I love that shout. That's a great call.

[LAUGHS] Okay. So other than that little shout and that header near the end and the fact that it was actually overall not a terrible game, what do you have written down yet on your little notebook there?

Well the first thing I have written down is like, you know, something we haven't mentioned-- This is a sign of what an important game it is. Something we haven't mentioned on this pod is, you know, what I love about Croatian fans, the water polo caps.

Because it is, I think, objectively just a bad look on anybody. Unless you're standing in a pool and you're a chiseled rock of water polo athleticism, it's just a dumb look. You look like you've had to go to classroom that the regular students are not allowed in because you're just a little bit violent and you're a little bit spontaneous. We're gonna put a water polo cap on you. They wear it willfully, which I think is a sign of a great sense of self humor and a great sense of self generally. Now, yes, it also is very meaningful to Croatia because their water polo team is one of the best in the world and won a gold medal at the Olympics which, you know, helped them identify it as a true nation… Sure, sure, sure, sure. I get that. I get that. But it's, like, objectively silly and I enjoy when people bring silliness into serious occasion.

I mean, analyzing hat wear is about as third place playoff a kind of analysis as I think I've ever heard. Carry on.

So then though, Croatia scores. A wonderful headed assist by Perisic, by the way, like a… Almost a no look. Like he just brought his head all the way around to send it into the box to Gvardiol who scores. And Gvardiol is the one who just got the soccer version of posterized by Messi in the semi. So I was pleased for Gvardiol to have a modicum of redemption there. You know, he's on the list of players who have… What's the word?

Enhanced their reputation.

Yes. I was gonna say… What's the word for, like, when you're not just multiplying a number, but you, like, you put a little number next to the number? It starts with a E though. It's like an E-X…

Exponential?

Exponential. Thank you, thank you. He's, exponentiated, not a word, but is at least closer, his value. And it had taken a little bit of a bump when Messi made him look real bad. And so I was happy for him to have that little bit of reputation restored.

[LAUGHS] Love it. I'm not coming in. Yeah. I want you to carry on. This is my favorite five minutes to the pod so far.

And then two minutes later. Here's the thing, Rebecca, I made a vow, I made a vow to our audience, I think on our very first episode, that there would be at least one episode of this pod where I would be absolutely shit-faced. And it didn't happen for a Holland game or a US game because I ended up being too much of a professional. But now, today, the third place game was our last chance, and I fulfill my promises.

If there is ever a day for you to fulfill the promise, it is on third place playoff day. It really is. I salute you. I welcome you in.

I admire you, and I'll tell you what, I'm bloody enjoying every second of it. So please continue with your match report of the third place playoff.

Yes. So according to my match report, I have here "ninth minute, equalizer already! Third place game!". And then I have the name of the bar I was at, so my full respect to whichever incredibly talented Moroccan player who scored that goal. But sadly it will be even further diminished in history.

Okay, so that's one one, then what?

Yeah, yeah. 42nd minute. Okay. Now hold on. The 42nd minute goal by Oršić. Beautiful goal.

Beautiful. A lovely goal.

Bono got a piece of it, but even if he hadn't, it would've gone in. A real glorious arching chip. And Oršić, another guy who has had his reputation exponentialized as the saying goes in football parlance.

On third place playoff day.

[LAUGHS] But the whole tournament, today was his first goal, but he's played very well throughout. Blah, blah, blah, 74th minute Croatian penalty shout. But…

Oh, that was a penalty by the way. That was a penalty.

Thank you for saying that. Couldn't quite tell, because I couldn't hear Dr. Joe in the pub. And so, like, you know, we've been planning this for a while. Like, I'm in Chicago, I'm seeing the family for the holidays. My cousin works at a soccer bar, so like, we're going to that soccer bar, but it's a crowded soccer bar, and as you know, well know, like, you gotta get their hours in advance. And this is one of those bars that is on an honor system, and I respect this. So you cannot reserve a table. You cannot reserve a table. And they're like, okay, great, great, great. So we got there, me and my father-in-law… We're not married, so he's like a de facto father-in-law. But we got there an hour and 15 minutes before kickoff, even though it was only the third place game, even though it was only Croatia at Morocco in terms of, you know, not the biggest heavyweights, but like, we felt like we had a duty to do it. We were the only people there.

Thought you were gonna say we got there an hour and a quarter, we should have been there two hours before. So you-- It was empty. Was it?

It was empty, except apparently there were people in the back watching the Celtic Aberdeen game.

Oh yeah, fair point. Better. That could have been better.

We weren't aware of them at first. So that was an extra hour of drinking though. It was just between me and my father-in-law, which of course is the most comfortable relationship in human relations. But by the time we got to the Croatian penalty shout in the 74th minute, I couldn't hear a goddamn thing. And sure look like a penalty to me. And then they're talking to Dr. Joe. I hear Dr. Joe's voice, that reassuring voice that I hear in my sleep sometimes. I hear Dr. Joe telling me, like, "Brendan what you're doing now is sleeping. What you're doing now is sleeping. We're looking at it on the camera and it looks like sleeping to me, and I hope they're gonna call it sleeping in your bedroom." It was a penalty shout, for sure?

Oh, yeah. It, I mean, it was such a terrible shout not to overturn the initial decision. You know, the clear and obvious thing is what people sometimes forget. It's not whether or not it was a penalty. It was, but it's not whether or not it was penalty. It's whether or not the decision of the on-field referee was a clear and obvious error. This literally couldn't have been clearer or more obvious. It was a shocking decision, which obviously no one cares. Third place playoff, but still it was a penalty. I mean, VAR, seriously, what's the point of them. If you can't see that, what are you doing. Anyway, separate conversations, far too serious, carry on, back to you.

And then apparently the game ended. That's all I have here in my notes.

[LAUGHS] Good, good. Well, I think anyone who hasn't seen the game but has listened to this is now just, you know, clued up as to everything that went on in that game, in your relationship with your de facto father-in-law in that pub in Chicago. Brendan, thank you. This pod has started perfectly.

Now, Brendan, we have been asking our listeners over the past few days to send us in some questions about football, which we'll then try and attempt to give an answer to. And we've had loads. So the good people on the production crew have narrowed it down to a handful. And we're gonna hear question number one coming into us from Cape Cod, I think I'm right saying, and from a man called Steve Stein.

This is Steve from Cape Cod with a question for you both. What happens when these guys go back to their main gigs and become teammates with recent opponents and become opponents of recent teammates? And for Rebecca and all England fans, the sentiment from NIck Hornby and Ben Folds:

[LAUGHS] Okay.

Wow. Bravo.

Bravo. For the production element of the phone call or the voice memo there to have both a question and a musical insert.

Is he dangling his phone from a string at that point? Or is the whole thing going into a microphone that goes into some kind of interface into the interwebs, into our dialogue.

All right. Less on the dangling, more on answering the question. So what happens, Brendan, when these chaps go back to their main gigs, become teammates with recent opponents and become opponents of recent teammates?

Well, I think the real, like, fault line for this will be at Chelsea Football Club where Mateo Kovačić and Hakim Ziyech will have to face each other in training, even though they've just been on the opposite sides of the World Cup third place game. World Cup third place game makes enemies of friends and friends of enemies. So they probably can't even face each other. They're gonna have to be separated, not just on the training pitch, but like at lunch. Their passions will run so deep having been so inflamed by the glory of the third place game that they may never say each other's name again. In fact, let's assume one of 'em's getting transferred in January. It's over. It's done.

[LAUGHS] I think it's one of those things where on the whole, it's fine. I think on the whole, players find it very easy to move on 'cause most players will have had a fairly mundane, middle of the road World Cup right. Some may have not got on the field, some have, some have done okay. And that's it. It'll be the ones, I think, like the Hugo Loris Harry Kane relationship, which will linger a little longer, but I don't foresee it being something that gets sort of carried on in any way other than a few mentions over the first, maybe second, weekend of Premier League action. After that, World Cups get very quickly forgotten until the next one comes around. So I don't think that's too much of a problem. On the whole, they're pretty professional. It's pretty easy to go back to. Whatever color you're wearing, you are behind. And it's okay.

I would say there's just two things about that I think, Rebecca. One is compartmentalization must be a skill all these players have for all the times they have to transfer. Because they don't just do it at a World Cup, of course, you know, they can be playing as teammates on a Saturday and they're playing against each other in a, you know, European championship qualifier on Thursday. So like, they are well practiced in this. And in terms of like the banter on the training pitch, I would assume that a noble Frenchman like Hugo Lloris would be above the fray and wouldn't wanna, you know, upset his captain as opposed to say Thomas Müller, who after Germany beat Brazil seven one in Brazil in the semifinal. And went back to Bayern Munich training camp a month later. And there was one Brazilian player on Bayern Munich at the time, that being Dante, or as Derek Rae would call him, Dontch. And Thomas Müller apparently would not let up on Dontch about the seven to one beat down. And it got to the point where Dontch had to finally take him aside and essentially say, "Mother fucker, you have to shut the fuck up, or I'm gonna fucking murder you." But he said it like with a Portuguese accent, so it sounded like he was, you know, a drunk Russian and it was just more elegant in general. By the way, that's my theory by the way, Portuguese sounds like drunk Russian. I don't know if you've ever seen it. Anyway, so yeah, mostly compartmentalization, unless you got beaten by a German, in which case all bets are off, you're getting your nose rubbed in the shit.

Love it. Okay, shall we move on? Who's got our next question?

Hi, Brendan and Rebecca. My name is Debbie. I live in New York City. I've been thoroughly enjoying the World Cup. My parents are from Spain, so I was going for Spain, but they got their asses kicked by Morocco. So I want to start following a Premier League team and the Premier League in general, and I don't know where to start. How do I pick a Premier League team?

So obviously with her parents coming from Spain, I had a look at the World Cup Spain squad and obviously they didn't have a great World Cup. So I was thinking she could maybe hang her hat on one of the Premier League players, but there are only five of them. None-- I mean, David Raya at Brentford, maybe, but the whole squad, it's not sexy enough for me for her to hang her hat and get a Premier club off the back of Spain's performance. Morocco were the ones that, in her word, "kicked their asses", arses as we would say. And so then I thought maybe Morocco, she could do that as her kind of way in, because there is a link there and that her parents country was knocked out by this upstart Morocco. Hakim Ziyech who plays for Chelsea but he doesn't play very much for Chelsea. So I think that's a possible option to go with maybe Chelsea based on Hakim Ziyech, and that link that you have now, even though it was a negative link, still a link. The other option I always say is you must have, somewhere in your background, history with an area of England, whether it's a family member, whether it's someone who's travelled there, that's all you need. Something tenuous, something tiny, maybe, you know, you bought some shortbread from, you know, Southampton once, I don't know, something like that. It's all you need.

Sure, did you enjoy the movie "Titanic", where they set sail from Southampton or the ship was built in Southampton?

There you go. Yeah. Set sail from Southampton. Yeah. So there you go. If you like "Titanic", you like Leo DiCaprio as I call him, then leave your love with Southampton. Okay. So there you go. That's how you do it. The little link like that.

Leo DiCaprio!

[LAUGHS] Okay, next.

Hold on, what? I didn't even get to chime in Rebecca!

Sorry! [LAUGHS]

Debbie, I think, there's a phrase. They say you can't choose your club, your club chooses you. And as Rebecca says, sometimes the first connection, the seed can be rather tenuous. So I would say, you know, just start watching those Premier League games on Saturdays and Sundays but you may just find yourself drawn to something like a certain player or like, you know, some cool kits. If you're American, there's quite the American presence, at a few clubs, especially Leeds, it has to be said.

Yeah, and if not, then just support Palace. Okay, let's go for the next question. Our next one is from Ricky Figueroa.

Hola, Rebecca and Brendan. My name is Ricky Figueroa. First of all, congratulations on an amazing and fantastic podcast. And my question is$%is there a rule of football that you would like to see revised or changed for the next World Cup that would, of course, benefit players and spectators? Thank you guys.

Okay. What's your answer, is there a rule that you'd like changed? I wonder if it's the same as my rule.

The one that comes to mind is one that the great Marco van Basten, the great Dutch striker, who reflects the Dutch tendency to have like deep thoughts about the game. As recently as, like, 2010 I think, he came on an interview and said, "You know what they need to get rid of? Offside." Now he's a striker. He would think that, and to say get rid of offside is a huge, huge…

You're not saying that though, are you?

Hold on, hold on.

Okay, I see a lot of these tournaments every Saturday morning with my six year old, and this is how it looks. Teddy is literally on the goal line waiting for the ball to be passed to him to just tap it home from six centimeters out. He is the goal poacher extraordinaire because they don't have offside. It's singular, not plural. FYI. But yeah, I mean, I'd love to see that too. It would just be a whole bunch of strikers just hanging up in the six yard box, but it could be hilarious, so…

But in the modern game, no, you'd be penalized for that. It's like playing two men down. There would still be a bit of a chess match involved, and thank you for letting us know what it's like among six year olds. I don't think that's quite the fair comparison to how it might be in the professional game.

We'll see. We'll see. I don't know. Okay, well, I mean, I'm willing to witness it for sure. I like the idea.

Let's try it out.

I'm quite traditional, so I'm pushing back, but I'm also slightly trying to be open-minded. So yeah, let's have a little look at that. My two would be, I'd have two quite specific. One is the taking the shirt off thing. We mentioned it earlier on in the season. And that can be, by the way, this doesn't have to be just World Cup, Ricky Figueroa. This can be around the world, every tournament, every league that has the silly rule that if you score a goal and you take a shirt off, you get a yellow card. 'Cause as we saw in the World Cup, the bloke took his shirt off, having got a yellow, got another yellow, got sent off after scoring a goal. So ridiculous. My other rule change, right? And I'm willing to be shouted down on this, and maybe it's a good reason why this isn't allowed, right?

Standing by.

You know, when a corner comes in and it goes out of play because they've bent it so much. Doesn't happen very often, right? But you know, when you take that corner, it's not the out-swinging, it's the in-swinging, right? Right. And if it goes out of play, the linesman puts his flag up because it's gone out of play in the air? I think we should be allowing the ball to go out of play as long as it comes back in again, right? Not just at corners, but even if it's a ball down the line. Because the skill of bend-- You can bend a ball to score a goal, but you should be able to bend a ball from say the right back to the right winger and it goes out of play and comes back in. And as long as it comes back in when he touches the ball, it should be fine. I think that could makes some amazing corners, don't you?

I think that's a fantastic idea. Yeah.

Thanks. Thanks so much. We need to write to FIFA.

I think yours are much more cut and dried, clear winners than mine. I fully concede, but also, you know, let's germinate, germinate a little bit. That's all I'm saying. Alright, let's go to the next question.

Hey guys, this is Mary from Kansas City. Love the pod. My question stems from commentary that my husband offered plenty during the group stage. He kept talking about all the kits and which ones were terrible and which ones he loved. And I'm curious to know which ones have been your favorite, and if you could pick two finalists to play based on kits alone, who would it be?

Can I say one thing. I do think men are a little bit more interested in kits than women. Which is funny, isn't it? Because on the whole, not always, but on the whole fashion and clothes tend to be more of a female area. But I think with this particular thing, like, I have literally never said the phrase, "Oh, it's a great kit that." I've literally never said that phrase, but I know so many men who have, including you.

I gotta say, it's a shame because like, you carried that phrase with great dexterity. "That's a great kit, that," Rebecca Lowe.

[LAUGHS] Go on.

I don't know, the whole… The kit thing is, like, both overstated and a great like, pre-tournament warmup topic, traditionally. People get really, really upset about kits that like, haven't even been worn yet. And I feel like people judge kits really harshly before they've even seen them on the pitch. And I think you do have to see them on the pitch to really, really truly judge them. Like before this tournament, people were furious about the Puma kits, which were very like…

Why, who cares?

Well, because they were-- They were admittedly, for the most part, garbage. Like, they had these little like frames where the number would go and like, they looked dumb. They looked dumb, but they look better on the pitch than they did beforehand. The US home kit was pilloried! Pilloried by the US soccer community. And indeed was not great, but it didn't look as bad on the pitch as it did beforehand. But then sometimes you get like some, I think objectively beautiful kits. And this would be my pick for the absolute best kit of the World Cup, which was Mexico's away kit, which is this sort of like cream-colored Aztec design thing that like, you know, this great like print on it. But the problem is they never got to wear it. They didn't have a single game where they were either not the home team or have enough of a color clash, or they didn't get to wear their traditional El Tri. So they went home. Adidas having invested all of this research money, all of this market testing into this kit that never, ever was seen on the international stage. So my winner is Mexico. But you, you don't care about kits, apparently so maybe we don't get a second one.

No, I mean, I had a quick look. When I saw this question, I thought I'll just have a little quick look just what stands out and I'm just traditional. So for me, the final that I would want, if it was a kit final, and this is just amazing, in a world of kit finals, I would go with just Brazil, Argentina, because Brazil's yellow is -- But it's less about the color and the style and the makeup and the print as you would say, and more about the image of what those colors hold for me, which is heritage, tradition and history. So the yellow of Brazil is just the yellow of my childhood and watching the old footage from back in the day. And that-- Uh, oh.

It was a different yellow. They went with a different shade this year. The worst shade.

Oh, did they? Sorry, I'm just not sure I noticed that shade of yellow change. And then the other thing was the other kit, it's the Argentina one. Was that a different shade of blue? I dunno.

No. Okay, good. Nor was it a different shade of white. They really crushed white this year.

Blue and white of Argentina traditional against the Brazil, but really, really Mary tell your husband, I'm not sure I could hold a conversation about this for more than a couple seconds.

By the way, dark horse in this, I really love the England red kit with the blue trim.

Yeah, that is an-- Oh my God, that is a nice kit. I can't believe I'm saying that.

It's really, really nice.

Yeah, that feels weird. Okay, let's get onto the next question. Charles Meeker.

Hi, Brendan and Rebecca, this is Charles from Atlanta, Georgia. I love the show. Thanks so much for doing it. It's been a great addition to a very entertaining World Cup. My question is, who do you think is the US men's team player that has raised their value up the most? For me, I think maybe Pulisic. I know he is already highly valued, but I think that he is shown he can play at a level higher than what he has gotten at Chelsea. So curious of your thoughts.

Well, your team USA, you go first.

It's a great question 'cause like, you know, we're in this unfamiliar position this year of most of our American players being quite prominent. You know, Pulisic I think is disqualified by the fact that he already had such a huge price tag on him when he transferred to Chelsea. Like, you can't get much more valuable than that.

I was gonna say, is he worth more than that? I don't think he's worth more than that. What Chelsea paid for him, I don't think he is.

No, because I think the way they've used him over there, I think his value had gone down and like now it just might have gotten back to what it was. Tyler Adams would have to be way up there, but people have been singing his praises all season, so I don't know how much of a surprise he would've been like, how many people who know football and thus are people who would be buying players, hadn't known about Tyler Adams already. He would seem to be the most obvious choice, but I just think his value is probably already pretty high. So I think you have three to draw from. It's either Adams or Yunah Musah who's at Valencia and already, again, very prominent, but still 19, maybe people haven't quite clocked him yet. Or Matt Turner. And yes, he's at Arsenal, but he's, you know, their cup goalkeeper, most times anyway. And, I think he really, you know, gosh, what's the phrase, exponential'ed. He showed himself off quite well. He enhanced his reputation. So I think it's between Musah and Adams and Turner.

All right. Don't disagree with Turner. Pulisic, for me, actually, I don't think is worth what Chelsea paid for him. I think you're right, his value went way down. I don't think he did enough at the World Cup to take him back up to around 75 million, which is roughly, 70-75, what Chelsea paid for him. If he was on the market now, he would not be bought for 70 million. Absolutely no way. I think he'd be bought for 50. So I don't think he has done enough, unfortunately for me, he did really well. But he was only probably gonna go for about 30, 35 before the World Cup. I think, just personally talking money, Tyler Adams for me, I think is the one. Of course everyone knew about him, but in terms of how high their value has gone up, who has raised their value up the most, which is Charles's question, it has to be Tyler Adams. I think he plays brilliantly for Leeds and has done since he arrived. Before that, no one in the UK particularly knew much about him. He comes, he's been playing really, really well. So he has a decent value. He goes to World Cup and does what he does, on and off the field, actually, 'cause people are always looking for leaders, and for me his value would've gone through the roof. Through the roof and Leeds know it. So for me, Tyler Adams.

Based on your assessment of Christian Pulisic, I would really love it if you could some someday go to garage sale with me where I like really need some stuff. So you, you could say, "Armoire, how much? Oh, you bought it for five? Don't care. Don't care how much you bought it for. That's a 300 dollar armoire right there." And then we'll get it for $310.

[LAUGHS] Armoire. Armoire.

Love an armoire, me.

Bonne nuit. Armoire.

Thank you, Charles.

Alright. Next.

Hi, this is Lindsay. I'm a huge fan of the show. Rebecca, am I a bad person for thinking that the Premier League is three times better than the World Cup? I love the World Cup, but I'm struggling with the conservative styles that have succeeded so far in this tournament.

Lindsay, I love this question.

And I love that she recorded it apparently from inside a very small bathroom.

[LAUGHS] She's not a bad person. Lindsay's a great person, number one. Great person, but also not a bad person for thinking that the Premier League's three times better than the World Cup. 'Cause it is, it just is. And it's okay to think that, I mean, if you look at the World Cup squads, were you to take every squad and put which club they play for next to them, you know-- Just take the Wales squad for one example. Yes, they went out in the group stage, not one of the better teams, but they had a smattering of third division players from England. So it's not going to be at the level of-- You know, Manchester City take on any of those teams at the World Cup virtually, I would say they would beat them all. They'd have a good game against Argentina. They'd have a good game against France. They would beat everybody else. So it's not a surprise when you go to a major tournament that the standard of football is reduced, and is more conservative because there are so many more weaker teams that they have to play slightly more conservatively in order to try and stay in the game. You're not a bad person, but the World Cup brings so many other things to it that you're okay to have six weeks of slightly less than elite level football 'cause you know you're gonna go back to the Premier League, but yeah, not a bad person. That's just the explanation. Brendan?

Yeah, I love this question. I remember reading a quote from the great Scottish manager of Manchester United, Sir Alex Ferguson, who said somewhere in the early two thousands, and he might have been stating the obvious, or as Rebecca would say, the bleeding obvious. But I had never heard this before, that the best football in the world, full stop, is played in the Champions League and it is not in the World Cup. And I was like, wait, what, what, what, what? And it makes perfect sense. And the Premier League may have surpassed the Champions League actually since then. But if you think about it, it's not only, as Rebecca says, they have the best players just comparing the squads, but also it's that they are together for 10 months out of the year training every single day, getting to a point of precision and exactitude and familiarity that you can never, ever get by being in a World Cup. I mean, especially at a World Cup where you get approximately three days together before it starts. But even in a summer World Cup where you get a whole month. So for the best football turn to, in my opinion, the Champions League or perhaps the Premier League. But for the biggest event, nothing tops the World Cup. Nothing at all.

A hundred percent agree. I don't think the Champions League is at the level of the Premier League until it gets to the last 16, to the quarter finals. I don't think the group stages of the Champions League is the best football.

Yeah. But I don't so much mean the group stage. I mean the best bits.

Yeah, that's fair. The knockout stage is a hundred percent elite. Best of the best. Agree. Agree.

I'm not referring to Basel versus Qarabağ. Bless these both fine, fine clubs, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Fair enough, fair enough. Well, that was lovely. Listener's questions. That was lovely. Thank you everyone for sending in.

Ladies and gentlemen, we now bring you to what we in the podcast business call segment three. And today, segment three is a quick little preview, little rundown of the biggest sporting event of every four years. The World Cup final. It is tomorrow, it is France and Mbappé versus Argentina and Messi. It is, as Mr. Keith Jackson would say, if he had ever watched a soccer game in his life, the granddaddy of them all. A humdinger of a barn burner of a hootenanny. And we have it before us, and I'm terribly excited. And Rebecca we come into it with a mild bit of controversy that I don't quite understand that I think maybe you do, which is there is a Karim Benzema kerfuffle.

Well, a kerfuffle's probably, maybe even exaggerating it slightly. So Benzema, obviously injured, couldn't make-- Ballon D'or winner, Benzema. Couldn't make the France squad, but when he pulled out because of his injury, Didier Deschamps didn't replace him. So there was a space that's always open. Now, if that happens and the player then recovers, he is actually allowed to fly out and be part of the World Cup squad. Now, a reporter after the game and after the semi-final had, I guess, heard that he was recovered or nearly recovered and put it to Deschamps. What is this report about Benzema coming back out? Are you interested in having him to play some small part in the final? And Deschamps replied, but the translation of his reply, according to reports, was wrong. The translation of his reply was, "I don't really want to answer that question right now." And then everybody was like, "Oh my goodness, Benzema's coming back. This isn't-- He doesn't wanna answer the question because he's coming back and he can't really-- What's he gonna tell Giroud and he's gonna...." All this kind of stuff. Well, actually, I heard on the radio, Julien Laurens, who is a French football journalist, say that the translation was basically, "I'm not answering that question 'cause it's a stupid question." So the kerfuffle is actually just a kerfuf. It's not even a full kerfuffle. There is no kerfuffle. There is no Benzema.

I wish I'd been there for that conversation. "What did he say? What did he say?" "He said, I do not want to answer that question right now." "No, no, no, no, no, he said more like, I do not want to answer that question right now." "That is what I said." "No, no, no, but you said, I do not want to answer that question right now. But it really was more like, I don't want to answer that question right now."

Hashtag analysis, this is what we bring you. Okay, good. Nothing there. Great. I was worried that there was something there, but there's not. Folks, we are gonna witness Mbappé versus Messi, and of course it's a team sport. They both are on quality, quality sides but nonetheless, they are the highlighters. The headliners. We've already been seeing the artwork that Rebecca promised of seeing their two heads or bodies around various totems, usually the World Club trophy, sometimes a tall Qatari building. But it is a big fucking deal. And I was trying to think about it in an analogy of American sports, because I've heard it referred to as like, "Oh, it's like if Jordan had played his last championship against LeBron." And I was like-- At first blush, I was like, "Oh, that's a bit easy." But then I thought about it further and I thought about it through baseball and I thought about it through American football and then even through hockey and then basketball again, I was like, "Well shit, no, that's the answer." It's fucking-- It really is Jordan versus LeBron. It is, it's fucking massive.

And if that happened, Brendan, when Jordan was almost at the end and LeBron was just coming on, who would've would won because of that player? So basically I'm asking you, who's gonna win? Based on that player?

That's a great question. I mean, the analogy fails when you get to the team part because Jordan would've been on the mighty Bulls and LeBron would've been on the fledgling Cleveland Cavaliers at the time. So I don't know. As to who was the better player then? I think Jordan would've been a better player than young LeBron. But then again, maybe this isn't young LeBron. I mean, maybe this is Miami Heat, LeBron, and I know we're getting even deeper into NBA stuff, which is just not anything you wanna talk about or that most of our podcast listeners wanna talk about, but…

Okay, let's let them decide.

Suffice to say though, for this matchup, I think unequivocally France is the deeper team, even with the injuries that they've had. But the fucking grit factor on Argentina is through the roof. And I said it on this podcast, and then Lionel Messi said it too. So it must be true. Losing their first match to Saudi Arabia was a bit of a boon for them because it, you know, immediately set them into, as they say in "The Godfather", they had to go to the mattresses right away. And they've been grinding their way up ever since. And potentially peaking at the right time.

Yep. I'm gonna go with I would like Argentine to win it, I think France will. I just think they're just a little bit annoying. So I think France will win this and I really hope they don't. I really hope Messi does it, but that's what I think will happen.

I think Messi will win too.

No, no. I said I think France will win.

I listen to every word you say. I've been saying Messi from the beginning. I'm gonna stick with Messi. But in terms of France, can we just say real quick, this has not been mentioned enough because it's been a real slow burn. It's been happening since 1998. but France are on a fucking historical run at the World Cup. Before 1998, they had never made a final. They made a couple of semis but now they've made four of the last seven finals. They won two of them. They're gonna try to win their third tomorrow. That's absolutely massive. I was going through "Wikipedia", which is a very handy tool for these things. Like West Germany made four outta five from '74 to '90. They won two. Brazil made four outta six from '50 to '70, they won three. Four out of seven, potentially winning three, is fucking bonkers.

Yeah. And annoying. Told you, annoying. Let's just end there, shall we? Let's just end there.

We have one episode left to go. If you haven't already, just do it. Just do it for the one episode, subscribe on Apple Podcasts. That is the best way to get alerts to any upcoming content in this feed. And be sure to rate and review us. It really helps other people find that last show.

And if you're in the US, follow along in the Apple News app in My Sports for special live coverage of tomorrow's World Cup final match.

Plus a quick shout out to the great podcast produced by Apple News. If you wanna get all the day's news in under 10 minutes, then check out "Apple News Today." And for more in-depth interviews with the world's best journalists and thought leaders, search for "Apple News In Conversation" in the podcast app. That's "Apple News In Conversation." We'll be back for the last time with more World Cup coverage, right here in your pod feed. Sunday with our final episode and recap at the end of The World Cup tournament.

Oh, it's over already. It was just getting warmed up.