What went wrong for The Guys in USA’s crushing World Cup exit

And that's, I think, you know, America in 2022. The occasional five minutes of hope… And by the way, now I'm mad because yesterday, you and Steve Nash told me the U.S. would win.

Yeah, I know.

You specifically said so.

Because you know, it's the hope in the end, Brendan. It's the hope that kills us all. Hope is a horrible, addictive, weird thing.

[LAUGHS] People forget the addictive part, yes. From Apple News and Meadowlark Media, I am the shell of the man who once was Brendan Hunt.

[LAUGHS] And I'm Rebecca Lowe, who’s gonna do everything in the next half an hour to make him properly feel worse. And this is “After the Whistle.”

Reminder, there will be adult language.

Brendan, Brendan, Brendan. Here we are, what, minutes? I thought it might be seconds, but you disappeared for a few minutes. But we found you.

I needed some time.

You came on the pod [LAUGHS] to face up to what just happened. Wow. First of all, first emotion is what?

[GROANS] I don't know, can…

Not first noise, first emotion. [LAUGHS]

Do you have in England a product called Goober Grape? Do you know what Goober Grape is?

No.

Goober Grape is a wonderful American confection, but I don't know if it's still available, where it is for people who enjoy a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Where you have to open two jars, one of peanut butter and one of jelly, Goober Grape combines the peanut butter and the jelly in stripes all the way down.

That’s so American.

Because then, you've opened one less jar. And right now, the peanut butter is anguish, and the jelly is pride. And I'm feeling both equally in the one jar that is me.

[LAUGHS] I love it. That is perfection, right? OK, so Mr. PB&J, swirly PB&J, the real question then… I wanna start with what happened?

I watched a bit more of the post-game than I usually do. Usually, I come rushing here. We get excited about having, you know, the youngest team left in the knockout rounds, and we forget to give them credit for that. You know, we sort of forget about how much learning on the job they're doing, and so kind of the recurring point between the fellows in the studio there was naivete. We were bounced by our own naivete, you know, just the simple act of forgetting to track runners. There are lessons to be learned. There are lessons to take away, and as much as I was so happy to hear Christian and Gregg talking about… This is not about getting ready for 2026. This is about getting results now. It's also really heavily about 2026, [LAUGHS] you know?

Oh, it is. Because when you see that shot of Pulisic at the end, so sad, the first thing that came into my mind is but don't worry 'cause in four years' time, that really will be your stage, these young players.

Yeah. And they don't have big tournament experience, not big international tournament experience, with all due respect to the Gold Cup. None of these guys have been to the Olympics 'cause we haven't qualified in years. Now, we've finally qualified for the next one. None of these guys have been to a World Cup except for DeAndre Yedlin because we didn't qualify for 2018, and all our players were barely teenagers in 2014. Now, they have that under their belts. They know what it's like, and by the way, it'll be at home. So, it holds us in good stead for that. But forget the future. Looking to today, a pretty big opportunity was there even if they were a huge underdog, even if they proved to be outmatched in the long run, and at the moment, it stings.

I think that's what's so frustrating, actually, is that we talked about Holland being there for the taking, that Netherlands were gonna give you chances, that you would be able to get into the final third, and the thing is, they did. They gave you gift after gift, actually. And the final ball is where I think you guys let yourselves down. Of course, the not tracking the runners. I mean, Tyler Adams on the first goal, so uncharacteristic. We'll get to that. I feel like you were naive but brave. Berhalter, I wanna talk about as well. But it was actually not a 3-1 game. If you look at the stats, you have plenty of shots on target, eight I think. You had so much of the ball. It was the final third.

Which, not in any specific way, but in the macro, you know, brings us back to us not currently having a striker.

Mm.

That's what a striker is there to do, is to finish the progress that you have made. Jesús Ferreira was not a name I was excited to see on the team sheet.

Well, we’ll just play Gio Reyna from the start. I mean, if you're putting on Gio Reyna at half-time, and you think he can get you or assist in you getting two goals, then play him from the beginning. I don't understand that. For me, it's a mystery. I think the Gio Reyna situation has been a topic all World Cup, and we will probably find out more after the World Cup. But for me, that's a big miss. He should have played more Reyna, and he certainly should have started with Gio Reyna today. Nothing to lose, knockout competition. Play your best players. And when he came on, he had an effect. But the one thing I wanna also talk to you about is the way you tried to score goals. This today, Brendan, was the land of the orange giants.

I mean, not just the keeper being 6'8". You've got Virgil. You've got Aké. They're all massive. And yet, all you did was put balls into the box. And what Virgil doesn't like… I mean, he likes most things. Let's be fair. He's a brilliant defender. But what he doesn't love is trying to defend against players with the balls into the feet. You could do that. You have some of the quality to do that in the middle of the park near and in the box. But you didn't. It just kept being cross after cross, and it just… And the corners… Do something different. Do something clever. But no, just lump the ball in right near the end. Goalkeeper jumps and catches it. These are huge players. They're gonna head it away. They're gonna do that all day long.

Yeah, totally agree. I would've loved to see Reyna on the right and still see Weah up front. I know people have been calling for that all tournament, and Gregg has refused. And we don't know what happens in training, but woulda, shoulda, coulda! If ifs and butts were candies and nuts, every day would be Christmas around here.

Do you have that phrase in South London?

We don't, but we do now.

OK.

But we are here to dissect. I mean, that is our job. We are here to reflect, dissect and analyze. So, do you wanna start at the first gift of Christmas, which was Pulisic on the plate, should have scored early doors.

Yeah, that would've been nice. And at the time, I wasn't even thinking of it so much as a missed opportunity. It felt like the first of many opportunities.

Mm.

And I don't think he had another chance all match, actually. So, yeah. Would've been real nice.

Yeah, absolutely. And then what minute did they score? Tenth minute against the run of play? Was it as early as the 10th minute? Yeah.

I think so. I just wanna cut you off before you ask me about the goal because I missed it because I had not one, but two latecomers!

OK. What? Hang on a second.

Two latecomers in the 45 seconds before the goal.

OK. Your first error was to invite anybody to your house.

OK? Your second error was if you are gonna invite them, not send the graphic of the rules, right?

So, just talk me through that. You've let yourself down. You've let football down, and you've let yourself down in this situation, Brendan. Who were they? Name and shame.

I'm neither naming nor shaming. I put my trust in my teammates, and I don't show them up in a public forum.

So, what happened? You were going to answer the front door, and then the goal went in?

No, it was like from a distance. I was like, oh, hey, how you doing?

Oh, no.

Oh, what's going? [MUTTERS INDISCERNIBLY] OK. Door closes. All right, we're fine. Now I'm like, OK, what's happening? Door opens again. Oh, hey!

[GASPING] God fucking damnit. [SIGHS DEEPLY]

[LAUGHS] Oh gosh. OK. So, you didn't realize probably for quite some time that the great Tyler Adams, who has not let your side down, either on or off the pitch all World Cup, and who has been a leader of men, who has stepped up, who has had a breakout tournament, had the most uncharacteristic of moments where he was jogging back towards the goal, and Memphis Depay was in front of him. I mean, it was a lovely finish from Depay. It was actually a harder finish than Pulisic had a few minutes before. Pulisic had an easier opportunity. Depay finished nicely, but he should never have been able to, unchallenged… Tyler Adams, we love you, but [FEIGNS CRYING] Tyler Adams.

That falls under lessons. You know, even the guy who has been our best player…

Yeah. Of course.

…has something where he can, in 2026, say like, OK, all right. I let my guard down for a second. And when they let your guard down for a second in the World Cup, you're punished.

Absolutely. And, you know, we're not singling him out here because they're all gonna get criticism, and they're all gonna get praise. Right? So, it's just football, I'm afraid. That's just part of the job, 2-nil just before halftime…

That was a dagger.

The first one was a killer. The second one was a sucker punch, wasn’t it?

Yeah. Especially coming right before the half.

[SIGHS] Worst time.

[SIGHS] And it was like a go-to FIFA move, just dribble down to the baseline as we call it in America. And then cut that thing back. [GROANS] Turner had no chance on either goal either.

No, he actually played well. He had a couple a good saves, but…

He had a great game. Yeah.

Yeah. But I think they must have been watching. This is all part of the backroom staff's job leading into a knockout game in the World Cup, is to be watching every game USA played in the last 10, 20 and see where they’re weak. Well, they all were on the six-yard line. And so, the cutbacks were on all the time. I mean…

Yeah.

Dest, again, he's done pretty well this tournament, had his hands on his hips, you know, and Blind was in front of him. He had his hand… Watch it again. He had his hands on his hips. That is never the figure you wanna cut in the box when the ball is about to be cut back.

You know, just those little momentary lapses in concentration let you down. But again, not singling them out. A team goal, and I think a lot of this comes back to Berhalter, which we'll get to once we've gone through the game. So, at 2-nil at half-time, when you had guests who were late, you were 2-nil down. You hadn't even seen the first goal. Probably a good thing. Tell me about your mood, Brendan, at half-time. What did you do to fill the 15 minutes? Did you do a playlist, one of your famous playlists? Or were you not really in the mood?

I did do a playlist, but it was colored by my mood. I was gonna start the playlist with “Believe” by Cher.

'Cause, you know, we're down 1-0, but like, it's gonna be fine. And then the second goal was scored. Instead, I started with “This Is America” by Childish Gambino, which is a darker song in mood. Still finished it with Cher.

OK. Good.

At that point though, I'm thinking about the Dutch here and something we've talked about the Dutch and why I think they are a threat. I don't think they're gonna beat Argentina actually, but in the macro, I think this is a very good Dutch team because of how patient they were. I mean, they only had the two shots on goal in the half and then scored on both. The Dutch teams of old would be wanting to show off after that first goal and like, try to win 4-0 in 40 minutes. This Dutch team doesn't even have a tinge of that as far as you can tell, just absolute patience and control. And it's a dangerous team. It's a dangerous team. And we were not up to it. Anyway, that's the first half.

Oh, also at halftime, I had not yet had any beer.

Right. Well, it was 7:45 in the morning, but sure. OK.

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. But now, it was like 7:57, so I figured that's probably what I…

Ah, positively late.

That's probably what I can be doing to support my team. And then suddenly, Gio Reyna was on the pitch. So, you're welcome America.

Hallelujah.

I did my part.

At that point you're screaming like, let's just get one. Just get one. Let's just get one. Let's just get one. But it also felt like little brother vibes a little bit at that point. Like, they had the stat on at some point. I can't remember what it was, but you know, the U.S. having a ridiculous amount of possession, like almost Spain level possession.

Yeah.

As if Spain was playing, I don't know, Bosnia. But again, it was just their patience and control and be like, oh, you want the ball? No, go on, go on. You get the ball. You gotta play with the little ball. Oh, now I have the ball, and I've scored. [COOS] Try again. You're doing great.

[LAUGHS] But Brendan, you would feel that way if you're Virgil van Dijk, and crosses keep coming in the box, and that's the only way you're being attacked. And you're like, bang, bang, and you're heading everything away. Or your keeper comes up who's nine foot tall. You're gonna be like, casual as… chilled out. We're not gonna be breached.

I mean, also not particularly dangerous crosses either, you know? Yeah. Again, I don't think [CHUCKLES] corners are where you want Pulisic. So, that's the thing that has been worked on

Yeah.

Again, I don't think [CHUCKLES] corners are where you want Pulisic. So, that's the thing that has to be worked on.

But Gio Reyna made a difference, didn’t he?

Gio Reyna did make a difference, yeah. But …

I mean, Reyna's link up play is so good, isn't it? I mean, he’s so… He's good. He's really good.

His close control is unbelievable.

You know, like he can have four guys on him and get into the box anyway. [GROANS]

OK. So, just after the break, Tim Ream, and it was cleared off the line. I thought he deserves that goal. By the way, Tim Ream would've deserved a goal at this World Cup.

[CHUCKLES] Yeah.

But I thought if you got that… If that had gone over with all that time left to play with Reyna on the field and subs yet to come on, that would've given you, I think, the foothold that may have changed the game.

It could have been something. It's a real shame that our two most interesting chances, unconverted in second half, went to our topknotted defenders.

But at least Tim Ream didn't try a bicycle kick. That saved us some shame. So yeah, we're trucking along, the occasional chance, big save from Turner in the 61st.

Yeah.

At this point, I'm thinking to bring in Acosta because the set pieces are poor. And then, Haji Wright comes on, and I'm like, oh my gosh, Haji Wright. I don't know about that. But then, Haji Wright scores, and I realize he's our [SHOUTING] greatest ever striker!

Yeah, with that…

Greatest striker in American history.

Where's he been? He was the missing piece!

Oh, you mean with that very conscious back heel?

Oh, he visualizes it, and then he executes it.

Bless him.

Just gifted player. Gifted player. I mean, that was thrilling 'cause like, you'll take him how you get him.

You do, and actually, it doesn't matter, does it? Because for that section of time between 2-1 when you pulled one back and 3-1 when they scored, that section of time was the great hope of America today.

Yeah.

That little section. And we thought this could be on… Let's try and get one more and play for extra time.

And that's, I think, you know, America in 2022. The occasional five minutes of hope.

Yeah.

That's our national theme right now, in general. And I'm not just referring to soccer.

[GROANS, SIGHS] Yeah, but then Dumfries scored, and Dumfries of course was a menace all game. He is such a good player. You kind of knew it was over then. And by the way, now I'm mad because yesterday, you and Steve Nash told me the U.S. would win.

Yeah, I know.

You specifically said so, and sure, I said so. But I'm a fan. I mean, I'm speaking with my heart.

You know? I'm not a journalist. Rebecca, what's your excuse?

Well, I know because, you know, it's the hope. In the end, Brendan, it's the hope that kills us all. Hope is a horrible, addictive, weird thing.

[LAUGHS] People forget the addictive part, yeah.

Right? It is addictive because you’re like, well, I'm never gonna hope again. I'm never gonna be positive again.

And then, it just creeps back into your sinews, doesn't it? And you start getting hopeful. I mean, I bet you're, deep down, already a little bit hopeful for 2026. I bet you’re already starting to feel…

Oh. Are you kidding me?

Right? There you go. But can I just go back to the …

That is pre-loaded.

[LAUGHS] Can I just go back to the 3-1? So, he scores 3-1. I hadn't eaten yet, right? Because I had to get up, obviously, relatively early, get concentrating on the game. At 3-1, I went to put the toast in. I'm not gonna lie. At 3-1 on whatever it was, 10 minutes ago, I had to go and put the toast in. I was starving. It was over. That 10 minutes, five minutes, whatever it was of hope, after Haji Wright subconsciously scored, there wasn't any coming back from that. It was time for toast.

OK. Now you've opened a real side door here 'cause this is something I discovered only this last season in my third tour of duty on "Ted Lasso" in London. Rebecca, describe how you make your toast.

[LAUGHS] OK.

What happens between the toast coming outta the toaster and you eating your toast?

Well, you get your bread and you put it in the toaster and then you go and decide what am I gonna have on my toast? Well, we decided as a couple, my husband and I, very much on the same toast page…

Mm-hmm.

And we wanted jam, right? So, we go to the fridge, get the jam out the fridge, get the butter, and then we ladle the butter on like you're running out and then chuck load a jam on once it's out. And it's super, super hot. I don't understand. What's the controversy?

OK. That's good to hear. You've assimilated. Because I discovered in London that apparently, this backwards nation from which you hail, likes toast to be not particularly warm and the butter to be cold on it? And this is how they serve in fancy hotels?

Oh yes! Right. That is so interesting. So, Granny Esme, God rest her soul, bless her heart. My granny, my mom's mom, she actually sort of taught me that. So, toast… You then… Once the toast comes out, you put it in a toast rack, OK?

Yeah.

And the toast rack is metal, but it's supposed to keep it hot because it's metal, which apparently is a conductor, I don’t know, of heat. Oh no, ain’t no keeping it. It actually takes the heat away from the toast, keeping it away from the toast. Now, the toast then very much hardens up, and I would maybe refer to it almost as a crisp bread at this stage.

Yes.

And so, then, you get the hard, cold butter that almost has the fridge condensation actually on the pack of butter in the white saucer. And then you spread it very difficultly.

Very difficult.

I mean, high level of difficulty. Yeah. Occasionally, you might make a hole in the toast while spreading with the butter.

Every time.

But can I tell you, don't judge until you tried because hard, cold, crispy toast. Cold, unspreadable butter, lob on a chunk of course-cut marmalade. It might be the greatest thing you've ever had. Granny Esme, we thank you for the toast protocol that you passed down.

God, this is the first time I've ever felt like, hatred for you.

This is just the worst thing.

Yeah. But I've cheered you up, right? We're not talking …

How could you defend this? You started this being on our side, and then you ended it in this horrible, horrible position of defending cold butter and cold bread.

Aye yai yai. My day was bad enough before this conversation.

[LAUGHS] Oh, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to give you a toast distraction.

OK. Let's get back to it. Anyway, so here I am finishing the game out, eating toast, cold toast and with cold butter, and it was delish. Much more delish than the end of the game for you.

Yeah, yeah. Real bummer.

Can we get onto, if you don't mind, because yesterday, you did have a very rousing monologue on Gregg Berhalter. May I pose a slight devil's advocate to your supreme support of the U.S. men's national team manager?

Hey. I in no way wished to say that he is above criticism. No coach is.

Sure. I know.

I just wanted to mark a borderline against the “Berhalter out” crowd who can eat corn. Go ahead.

OK, I wanna get this straight. So, you think he should be the manager moving forward?

That's a separate conversation.

Well, can we have it?

OK.

[LAUGHS] OK, answer.

I think he's earned the right to be the manager going forward. That doesn't mean all the way to 2026, but certainly till 2024 when I assume we'll be in the Copa América because, you know, we don't have any qualification to do. So, let's see what happens there. But I don't know that he will want to be, and the reason why is because I think he's had a successful World Cup, and coming back for another World Cup after you've just had a successful World Cup is a pretty tricky ask. You know? Bruce Arena, I keep calling him Arena. Bruce Arena.

Amazing. Arena.

Most recent American example.

You know why? 'Cause you're mixing… You're thinking of Gio Reyna. It’s on the brain. So, you're thinking of… You’re so…

I'm thinking of the Amsterdam Arena, which is now the Johan Cruyff Arena.

[LAUGHS] Arena, Gio Arena, Bruce Arena. It's amazing what's on your brain today. Carry on.

But Bruce Arena, you know, had the greatest World Cup of any American manager of all time. I’m including 1930 in that because 1930 was kind of like a bunch of friendlies, really. And it was like, we're coming back for 2006 and absolutely shat the bed. So, I don't know that consecutive World Cups is smart, and like Gareth Southgate, he made it to the semis last time. Do we think he's gonna reach that again?

Well, we don't know. But Brendan, that could just be Bruce Arena, Arena, Gio Reyna.

What about Roberto Martínez? Third place last time, didn't get outta the group stage this time.

You may be right. Your evidence is stacking. So, I'm kind of playing both sides of the argument because I sort of feel like I'm OK with him going to 2026 if he was the right guy. Here’s my worry for you on Gregg Berhalter, and I think I said it to you actually at some point earlier in this pod series because you don't… And it's not your fault, geographically. Other than friendlies, because you don't get to play against the teams that tend to be too much higher in the FIFA rankings than yourself, playing against the Netherlands today, Gregg Berhalter just doesn't have the experience of being exposed to systems, patterns of play, tactics from the sort of world-class elite level because he just doesn't get exposed to that.

He played in Germany, and he played in Holland, and, of course, he had a cup of coffee at Crystal Palace when they were in League One or whatever. So, but…

Yeah, but it's a… But yeah, and I get that. I mean, obviously, being exposed to anything at Crystal Palace is elite level.

But, as a player, I don't think as a player, you are always thinking about yourself as a manager. I do think there can be two separate things. I think when you're in your playing career, you aren't always looking at games, looking at systems, looking at tactics in quite the same way as you would if you were a manager. My point is this. I'm interested that you say he may not want to continue in the job because in my opinion, this is a really good world football job. The crop of young players that we talked about at the beginning of this pod, the youth, the talent that you have, the facilities this country provides, the backing from U.S. Soccer, it's a great job. And I just wonder whether if he doesn't want it or if U.S. Soccer decide against him, and I know you probably want an American in the role, I don’t how many Americans are qualified and have been exposed to enough of that top-level opposition. From my opinion, to then come in and do a really good job with this group of players, Jesse Marsch would be very interesting in my opinion. But I think it might be too early for him. I don't think he wants it. But I just wonder whether there's a manager out there who has been at the top of world football, who would look at this and think home World Cup, bunch of young hungry, really talented players, this is a really good job. I think U.S. Soccer could attract a big name for the World Cup in 2026 and a name who maybe could do… And make a few more wise decisions, maybe, than Gregg Berhalter has made. 'Cause the naivety that we saw today is a reflection of the manager. Every team reflects its manager. They were brave in some ways, and Gregg Berhalter was brave in some ways. But for example, you needed to have a sitting midfielder constantly, OK, constantly to stop those counterattacks that were coming through. And to stop the cutbacks, by the way. And they, the midfielders were all over the place. I mean, they were just all like here, there and everywhere. That kind of naivety comes from the manager. But then, the bravery also comes from the manager. The way that you were attacking games all throughout this World Cup. And I just feel therefore, you have…

The unity as well.

Absolutely. But there are other managers.

But yeah, they were all on the same page. So, yeah.

I just think it's such a golden time. Not gonna say golden generation 'cause we know how that works out, England, Belgium, but a golden time in this development and evolution of your team. And I feel like it warrants a more experienced, bigger name. Is that fair?

I think it's fair. I 100% think it's a very attractive job, and I don't think Gregg As much as I'm a fan of him and what he's done so far, I can't pretend I think he's the greatest coach of all time. Do I think he's earned the right to continue at least for two more years? Yes, but I don't know that he wants to. And yeah, we'll see. Now in terms of Jesse Marsch, I know Jesse has won the hearts of Leeds fans, you know, even more than he already had by coming out and saying that that's the only job he wants, and he's not thinking about the U.S. at all. But methinks the Jesse doth protests too much.

[LAUGHS] Correct.

So, we'll see there.

But when you're in club football, and you're young like Jesse is, and he's in the Premier League, I feel like I mean, obviously, he may not be in the Premier League for much longer, but I just wonder with…

Yeah, but you just spoke about what the opportunity is here. Like, the opportunity…

Yeah, true.

Plus, it's his home country. If he was offered it, I’d be surprised if he turned it down.

And I think it would be magic. I gotta say, the histrionics on the side, the animation, the way he plays football for me fits this USA team. I would love to see it. And then if we could just find you a striker. Is there a striker somewhere? Has anyone seen a striker?

Yes. His name is Ricardo Pepi.

[LAUGHS] Then, the future is without a doubt bright. And I know it's a depressing day. I was saying to my husband at the end of the game, in like 95 minutes, I felt deflated, and I'm not a USA fan. But I just thought football is just so painful, isn't it? It's just why do we do… It's just painful.

It is. And yet, it's that horrible addiction of hope, but I'm left feeling very proud of this team. They have restored our… Whatever it is we were before, the scourge of 2018 is now gone. There's much to be proud of, and the foundation is there for 2026.

Well done, The Guys.

And these are The Guys, and I'm… This is not a hashtag. This is not trying to push anything, but like, if you're wondering what that team's gonna be in 2026, it's a good thing you're on board now because you're already in love with these guys. And these are the guys who are gonna be back. These are guys who are 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, and at least half this team will be around in 2026.

Yeah.

And that love you're already feeling for them will have had four more years to ferment in your hearts. And we'll be drunk on it in 2026. And I cannot wait. So, much thanks to this team. Thanks, Berhalter. Thanks guys.

[WHIMPERS, SIGHS] Oh, Brendan. I hate football. I hate it, and I love it.

Rebecca, we've got England-Senegal tomorrow. Where are you at? How you feeling? Try not to speak with your heart too much 'cause that's what I did. And look at me now. England-Senegal, go.

Mm. I know. Well, I am just a barrel of nerves. I'm not gonna lie. I think Senegal have so much motivation. I think Gareth Southgate is going to do Gareth Southgate things. I don't think he's gonna play the team I want him to play. I'm hoping upon hope he starts Foden. That's my biggest hope. And I really hope that Harry Kane discovers the scoring boots. He's been good with his assists, and you know, that's what he does. He's an underrated footballer outside of the box without a doubt. But if you look to the game tomorrow, he's got to be on his game. I think, I'm not sure we can reach the quarterfinals of a World Cup without him getting on the score sheet. Hope I'm wrong 'cause I don't see any goals at the moment coming from Harry Kane. That's my fear. I'm very, very nervous. I think you have a completely different perspective when it's your own team. So, I could be very calm about your lot saying oh, I think you're gonna beat Netherlands. Even though I was wrong, I was pretty confident in my assertion. And actually, Netherlands, I think, were there for taking. But anyway, with this, I'm not confident at all. But I'm very rarely confident about England. I can see us going home, and it will be… I'm very nervous about my rage if that happens. I'm not sure I do wanna… You took 10 minutes to get on this pod after the final whistle. It might be 10 hours before you find me somewhere like, rolling down a hill in just devastation.

One thing I didn't realize until looking at the schedule after the game, it's a long time before the next game. Like, if England can win this match, and then maybe Harry's a little bit more fit, they don't play again until Saturday. That's a lot of time to get fit. That's the longest time between matches this entire tournament.

Yeah.

So, if they can get through today, that bodes very well for health situations.

Yeah, true. I mean, it could go to extra time penalties, which of course will then add to the minutes in their legs, which will then need the recovery. I think it's an interesting team selection where Marcus Rashford is concerned because how do you drop a player who scored two goals against Wales and was on a hat trick before he got taken off? How do you not start him? I don't think he will start him. I actually don't think he will 'cause I think Wales and Senegal are but two very different propositions. So, I think I’ll go with Foden. I think I'll go with Mount, and he'll go, obviously, go with Kane up front, and then he'll go with Sterling. So, I think he'll go Foden, Sterling and Mount behind Kane. And obviously, we know the rest of the team. It'll be the same. Walker, I think he'll stay with Walker. I don't think he'll play Trippier. Maguire who is apparently… He's the only England player who's featuring in everybody's best team in the group stages, which is fair. Him alongside Stones, and then Luke Shaw with Bellingham and Rice. As long as Bellingham can get forward, that's not a terrible team. I think Mason Mount is a wonderful professional. I haven't seen what he's done yet in an England shirt, this World Cup that warrants him to start ahead of a player like Saka, who I think could cause carnage, or even Grealish. But anyway, that's for tomorrow. I will sleep, but not very well.

I think, as much as I appreciate and respect, you know, Foden and Sterling, Foden and Sterling over Saka is folly. And how objective am I? I'm an Arsenal fan. I get it. But Saka has been fantastic. I would hope to see him in the lineup. That's my only request, Mr. Southgate.

I did read somewhere that Saka and Rashford have volunteered to take penalties, should it get to penalties, which, oh God, gives me like, such a big [PRETENDS TO CHOKE] feeling in my stomach because bless them. Bless them for volunteering, and that is what we need. I remember in… Was it Euro ‘96, I think, when Gareth Southgate stepped up and Paul Ince was sat on the ground? Where was Paul Ince? Paul Ince should have been taking a penalty. Not Gareth Southgate. He was not a penalty taker. I love you if you step up. I don't like you much if you don't volunteer when you should, Raheem Sterling, Euro 2020 final. Saka and Rashford, if you're stepping up, both of whom missed in that final for England against Italy a year and a half ago… If it goes to penalties and if they step up, I won't be able to watch. But then, in a funny way, for me, they can do no wrong from there on in because they stepped up, and that's all that matters.

Yeah. Saka has taken almost every penalty he can for Arsenal since that final.

He has.

And he has not missed one. So, much respect to him.

Yeah, I know. Oh God. I don’t know if that bodes well. [LAUGHS] Law of averages. OK, that's tomorrow. Bring it on! Come on England!

[LAUGHS] Will you wear the shirt during the match?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll wear it at night. I'm wearing it in bed tonight and then all day tomorrow. Smelly as, sweaty as, don't care. Come on England.

Cold toast, cold toast. [SINGING] Cold toast on the rack.

[SINGING] Hard butter, still freezing.

[LAUGHS] Oh God, I love it. That's genius. That is genius.

Bits and bobs, such as they are, my final two cents on Holland. Again, I don't think they’ll beat Argentina, but there's a revenge factor there because Argentina knocked them out in 2014 in the semis in a drab nil-nil extra time penalty kick shootout. Gakpo did not score today. So, no Jairzinho for him. I think that means no one has a Jairzinho option left, meaning scoring in every match all the way to winning the tournament. But dangerously for Argentina, Memphis Depay is now warming up. He's starting. He's scoring, and that makes Holland even tougher out.

By the way, we might have to just put a caveat in because we're recording this before Argentina take on Australia, and if people listen to this and Australia have won, just so you know, we don't know that yet. We got so excited about USA, we had to come and run on the pod.

If Australia does win, I will do the entire podcast tomorrow in a dodgy Australian accent, and I will play Wolfmother. I'll play Olivia Newton-John. I will play not even the Bee Gees. I'll play Andy Gibb just to show my great regret for being so presumptuous.

And you'll be drinking [SPEAKING IN AN AUSTRALIAN ACCENT] Carling 4X. [SPEAKING NORMALLY] And then, if England lose, I'll be already annoyed, and then you'll annoy me even more by doing an Australian accent the whole way through.

[LAUGHS] Oh, we'll see then. It is not good.

All right. Those are your final thoughts. We cannot finish this pod at the World Cup, Brendan, talking about the greatest sport in the world, talking about the beautiful game. We have to send prayers out to the greatest player that many think has ever lived, and that is the great Pelé. Because unfortunately, according to reports in Brazilian media, he has been moved to end of life palliative care because he has stopped responding to chemotherapy. He has won, Brendan, three World Cups. No other player in history has won three World Cups. He is one of those humans that sits at the top of the top of the greatest alongside the likes, the sporting icons of Muhammad Ali, those kind of names we're talking about here. Pelé during the World Cup, into end-of-life care… If Brazil needed any more motivation, it is… Can they do it for the great, great Pelé, the king?

Amen. Hopefully, for them it doesn't end up being, you know, yet more weight on the shirt, but it does make you root for Brazil just that little bit more. Much love to Pelé.

For sure. Right, I'm gonna go and try and keep my mind off England against Senegal for the next 24 hours. What are you gonna do to sort of drown out the sorrows, my friend?

I guess I'm gonna watch this plucky Australian side do their best against the Albiceleste and see what happens. Oh, by the way, I almost forgot. Shout out to my son who's 22 months old and has been sick this week but stayed asleep for the entire match. God bless him. That's my boy right there.

[LAUGHS] He knows. He read the list. He read the rules unlike your so-called friends. Unbelievable.

Still can't believe you let them in the door. Unbelievable. [LAUGHS]

2026 Baby!

Now, if you are loving the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts and if you can rate and review us. 'Cause it really helps other people find the show who also want to listen to Brendan being so sad. [LAUGHS]

And for 'round the clock World Cup news, because here's the thing people, even when your team goes out, the World Cup is quite worth following. Plus scores and standings, follow along on the Apple News app in My Sports where available.

And I can laugh all I want, but we’re gonna be back with more World Cup coverage tomorrow right here in your podcast feed after England [GROANS] and Senegal.

A battle of lions, Three Lions versus Lions of Teranga. Lions!