Welcome to the Adult Autism, a Spectrum of Uniqueness podcast, a podcast series for adults on the autism spectrum or those who think they might be autistic. Here's your host, Chris Quarto. Okay, welcome, Autism Nation, to another episode of the Adult Autism, a Spectrum of Uniqueness podcast. And I am joined today by Shreya and Chris, and welcome to the podcast.
So I just want to be transparent with the audience to let them know what happened. So last time, last time, meaning last week, Sherea and Chris had joined me. And we went through this whole podcast episode. And I said, okay, it was done. And I told them that I would try to get this. posted by that night or the next day and then um i looked and i saw that there was no recording and i thought what the heck happened i thought all this was recorded
And lo and behold, I found out that I had forgotten to press the record button. So nothing was recorded. Sheree and Chris were gracious enough to do another episode with me again. So we're going to go through this one more time. And it was a wonderful conversation. I think we had the last time, but we'll.
do it again. And this is an interesting topic this week. It's all about people who have been diagnosed with both autism and attention deficit disorder. And I think this is a fairly common thing it all kind of falls under that umbrella of neurodivergence and before we get started i just want to make mention to people who are listening especially those of you who are watching
this episode on YouTube. As you go along, you might have some thoughts, some things that you're thinking about that you would like to share. And if there's anything you would like to share about the conversation we have or maybe any experiences that you had. in the past relating to autism and attention deficit disorder uh feel free to subscribe to the youtube channel and also leave your comments and i'd love to um
read what you have to say and get back with you and we can have a pretty good conversation that way too. So, but let's go ahead and get started. So I'd like to ask you to just kind of looking back. Were you diagnosed with autism or ADHD first? Sherea, why don't you go ahead and start? Yeah, I was diagnosed with ADHD in elementary school.
and i was diagnosed with autism a couple months ago okay how about you chris uh yeah i um was diagnosed with adhd earlier this year and then diagnosed with autism a couple months ago end of october Okay. So I wonder, Chris, we'll start with you since both of yours have been a little bit more recent. Just kind of looking back and reflecting, do you think it would have made any... difference for you if you had been diagnosed with either one of these things earlier in life?
Yeah, I think if I had been diagnosed as autistic much earlier on, you know, it might not have helped with like other people's perception of me, but I would have at least known why I felt different to everyone else. And I think if I had been diagnosed with ADHD earlier on, it would have helped with some of the schoolwork and missing assignments and things. If I just knew I needed a little bit of help there, I probably could have.
set up systems that worked for me much earlier than the end of high school. I think a lot of people who are autistic share that in common about, you know, when they were younger. I knew there was something different about me. Couldn't pinpoint what it was, but I didn't feel like people understood me or I understood them.
I kind of felt like maybe an outsider, but there were those lingering questions. And it sounds like, you know, if you had been diagnosed a little bit earlier, you wouldn't have had those questions. It may have made a difference for you. Now, Sherea, it was a little bit different for you. You were diagnosed with attention deficit disorder when you were younger. The autism thing didn't come until a little later, though.
What do you think? Did that make any difference for you that you were diagnosed with attention deficit disorder younger or not so much? Yeah, I don't know. I still have mixed thoughts about this. For me getting that diagnosis was a way to, in a weird way, make my teachers feel justified as to why I was a problem child. and I didn't get treatment for it because we couldn't afford it. And it was at the time not as common for females to have ADHD and definitely not have the hyperactivity.
that i had to the extreme that i had and so for me having the diagnosis felt like a confirmation that there was in fact something wrong with me So not having the treatment for it just made it even more harder to live with. So in a way, it sounds like it was kind of a negative thing. for you the diagnosis where some people will have an opposite reaction where it's a validation but wasn't that way for you when when you were younger it sounds like
Plus, to add on to that, you experienced what I think other people experienced, that we can't afford treatment. And so what do you do? I know that sometimes in situations like that, especially if it's a medication thing where medication just can't be afforded, the parents will want to know, well, can the school? Do you remember back then if the school was willing to do anything or did they do anything in the teachers or anything to kind of help you out?
My memory is really spotty from back then. I don't have a whole lot of memory from my childhood, but from what I can remember or what I feel about my history is I don't think I got a lot of support. um it wasn't until seventh grade that i had a teacher actually highlight that it was a math teacher she had pointed out that um
maybe I wasn't being challenged enough. And so she gave me some harder math tests and that put me in advanced math. So I was in algebra in eighth grade. And at the time, that was a really big deal. And it was like the shiny moment, oh. It's not that I'm a bad kid or that I'm dumb. It's that I just wasn't challenged enough. And then after that, everything changed for me in a positive way. Okay. So it took a while, though, for that to happen. Yeah.
okay all right well what you know both of you are dealing with this now um now sometimes for people with attention deficit disorder um in about 50 40 40 50% of the cases people will outgrow that. but other people they'll continue with attention deficit disorder in particular into adulthood and both of you are continuing with both of these things into adulthood can you talk about just some of the challenges that this is posed to you as an adult, maybe in your work roles or in your personal lives.
Chris, we'll just start off with you just kind of looking at, you know, having both of these things that you're dealing with day in and day out. What kind of challenges have they posed for you? Yeah, it's been very difficult to kind of, it's funny because as an autistic person, I would love to have routines and I'd like to have a neat home and things like that. And as an ADHD person, I had a very difficult time maintaining.
either of those things so you know it's like I'll especially when I was single I would you know sit and stare at the pile of dishes in my kitchen and desperately want to get up and go do them but I wouldn't be able to like make myself initiate that um you know it's like once a quarter or something i'd get that burst of you know executive function and i'd go do all the things and my house would be clean for a week and then you know right slowly start again
So that's been kind of my experience. It's also been very difficult making friends and keeping them, especially as an adult out of school. Now, you can share this if you want or not, but are you taking medication for attention deficit disorder or for autism? No medication I'm aware of for autism, but I have not yet pursued medication for the ADHD. I do intend to in the new year, though.
Okay. And the only reason I asked about medication for autism is because some folks have a comorbid depression or anxiety. uh that they'll take medication for in relation to that but for you it's there's not any medication yet Yeah, I did kind of have some anxiety when I found out I was autistic two years ago, kind of when I self-identified. And I kind of slowly came out of that.
Antidepressants didn't work very well for me. It caused a lot of sensory problems. Okay. Yeah. Almost backfired for you, it sounds like. Yeah. Okay. Sure. How about you? I know that early on that medication was not an issue for attention deficit disorder. How about nowadays? Is that something that you have tried, if you care to share, and how has it worked for you? Yeah, so in my DAP program,
I got reacquainted with a therapist who reaffirmed the ADHD diagnosis. And we had talked about medication. And at that time, I had a big wall against it. And my brain is just like, I don't. don't want to take medicine for the rest of my life so i'm not going to do it at any cost well after about two years in therapy and i finished my phd i was just like okay we'll try out medicine we'll just see how it goes we went through
Me and my psychiatrist went through about five different types of ADHD meditation until I found the one that worked. Is that right? I have a super sensitivity to all medications. an unusual sensitivity. The first time I had ibuprofen was in my twenties and it, it was not okay. Like I couldn't even talk because it was so overwhelming to my system.
So I was super scared about medicine, like, oh, if I'm already super sensitive to medicine, maybe this isn't going to be for me. So I'm on like the kid dose. And I take it when I can remember to take it. But part of the curse of ADHD is not having a great memory. So if I don't have a routine, if I don't have it within eyesight.
whenever I'm doing my morning routine, then it doesn't get taken. So yes, I have it, but I don't always remember to take it, but luckily it's not a medication that's going to. wreak havoc on my system if i happen to forget to take it right yeah that's a good point and so it sounds like it's you found the one finally it took a while yeah boy that can be frustrating right man So just kind of looking in your work roles, can you share just generally what both of you do in your respective work roles?
Yeah, I'm a software engineer. I work on building websites and helping people get out of debt. Okay, sure. Yeah, I have my own practice. I'm a mental health therapist, a licensed professional counselor, but I'm also a counselor educator and an approved supervisor. Okay. All right. So different, different fields there. And I know, Sherea, maybe more so, I think probably more so in your profession, there's a lot of people contact.
Chris, I'm guessing that you have people contact too. It might be in a different way than Shereya does. But I wonder if, you know, with attention deficit disorder and autism, What kind of challenges that poses for you, either in your work roles, generally speaking, or just dealing with people specifically in... kind of what you've done to kind of um navigate your way through those um through those challenges that you that might come up uh in interacting with people chris yeah um
I mean, I do not have a lot of direct kind of end user interactions. Yeah. know to i work at a big company and i do interact with a lot of other people on other teams um i've definitely like learned uh social skills learned how to not be quite so blunt as my autistic self might otherwise be
how to do small talk kind of up to a point, you know, just different things like that to try to kind of ease my way into conversations with people. It's still, it is very performative. It is like... you know i i don't understand the the purpose or the the real meaning behind stuff but i i know how to chat with people and that that's kind of yeah yeah yeah okay thank you how are you sure
Yeah, well, I think choosing my profession actually helped me in many, many ways. Studying people has helped me learn how to interact with people. I remember whenever I was learning how to teach, I didn't know the ebb and flow of teaching. You know, you have to stand in front of a classroom. You have to talk to all these students. You have to convey a message that you're
pretty passionate about and probably know way more information than they will ever need to know in that one class and learning how to like dial down that floodgate. So in learning how to give only what is needed. While also paying attention to their facial expressions, their reactions. Yeah. And like learning how to maintain that balance in that position and then translate, like take that.
bit of data and then insert the counseling relationship data where okay here's your your therapeutic skills listening empathizing authenticity like unconditional positive regard so it's in a way it's very much like a dance the counseling profession where you know the steps to follow and you just kind of go with the go with the dance and it's it's easier for me to interact in
the teaching and the counseling aspects but when it comes to going to conferences and talking to other therapists about just general conversations I just kind of shut down a little bit because it's just like I don't have a script for this I don't know how to do this and then there's so that anxiety that comes with okay if somebody comes up to me and says hey how are you what are you doing what do i what do i say oh i say the same thing and i hope that i don't overshare
Like talking is a big issue. And so I go home and then I obsess over like, did I say too much? Did I say something that was inappropriate? Like, how did I censor myself? Did I censor myself? I don't even remember because my brain doesn't remember crap. So I know how to function. Oh, there's, yeah, you just, there's so many questions you ask yourself and it's, it's so easy to ruminate, you know, when, when that kind of stuff happens. I was just, I was just thinking.
about i was listening to this podcast a few years ago um and it was actually a guy who who was an autistic therapist like like you are sharia and he was part of a group practice
All of the therapists were autistic at this group practice, and it was a specialized practice to help people who are neurodivergent. I thought, what a fantastic idea that is, you know, because... i know that some people um like uh people who are alcoholic uh people who have drug issues or people who have adhd or autism or whatever it is feel like, you know what, I feel like if I had to do therapy, I'd rather see somebody who had...
gone through an alcohol issue like I'm going through because they'll really understand me, you know, and I think there are different schools of thought about that, but it just kind of made me think about that when I... heard you talking about some of your experiences there. Well, you know, I think that with, you know, as we talk about this, there are certainly challenges that pop up.
But, you know, I think that one of the things I like to look at are strengths as well. And, you know, what are some of the positives? Because it's so easy just to look at the negatives of autism or ADHD and overlook some of
the real positive things that people experience or some of their positive qualities and traits? So kind of looking at yourselves, what would you say some of the positive things are about autism about adhd how those things have been positives in your lives chris what about you yeah um i definitely think that uh Autism and ADHD kind of play off each other nicely in some ways. That can make life a little bit more hard than others. But, you know, it's like the...
The hyperfocus and autism is great for when you can't focus with the ADHD and then the constantly needing novelty is useful when you're stuck in the hyperfocus mode.
for autism so it's like you can allows you to be a little bit more versatile a little closer to kind of um the workflow that like a neurotypical person might have where they're able to move from task to task without getting stuck um and so that's i think that's been been a real good thing i'd say just both i feel like both of them kind of lead me down this road of just being endlessly curious um just constantly
seeking out new, new information and new interests. And, you know, that's some of them I dive much deeper on than others, but I just keep, keep learning too. Well, and it almost sounds like, um, in some ways. Attention deficit disorder and autism can complement one another or kind of help. one or another. If one is posing a challenge, the other one can kind of step up to the plate and kind of help you in certain ways. So yeah, that's interesting. Okay. All right. Shuri, how about you?
Yeah, I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with that. I think they complement each other quite well. Once you learn how to function, like once you learn how your brain works. and you apply skills to make it work for you in the way that you want it to instead of it taking over your life. I think it changes everything.
A lot of my clients who are diagnosed with ADHD will start lots and lots of projects and not finish them, or they just won't start at all because of that perfectionist tendency. Like, if I can't get done, then I won't do it. But something that... is interesting that i've noticed just recently actually um i start a lot of projects but i generally tend to finish most of them okay i think that ability
to have something new and novel and like like whenever I wanted to learn photography I pretty much obsessed over photography for a long time until I became really good at it. And then I started doing sessions and then I became a thing. And then when I was obsessing over music, like I could focus on an instrument and learn it and understand it and really dive into it. Whereas I think a lot of people with ADHD.
from what i've heard anyways they'll start something they'll get decent and then they'll switch to something new and i think part of the autistic qualities is being able to really get set in a routine And so doing a routine is something that's so new and fresh and exciting, it almost makes it harder to let go of. And so you finish or I finish more. I don't know if other people are like that, too, but like I become more versatile in what I can do and what I can read and digest because I can.
create a routine around the novelties but I absolutely also have to have a routine otherwise I will be depressed and I will be incredibly anxious because without a routine without my phone reminders i the adhd part of my brain that is so so craving dopamine all the time it's not going to get its fix and then i will get depressed and so i have to use so many tools, which sucks, but also is needed to help me with my executive functioning. But once I actually use the tools.
It activates the autistic piece in me that like really craves that routine and it works really, really well. You've really figured stuff out about yourself, haven't you? Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder about that for both of you. And I'm guessing that... This this journey that both of you have been on just hasn't been since you've been diagnosed with autism or I mean, this this is something that you've kind of been.
um it's been part of you your whole lives these these things that we've been talking about today and i wonder if um Does self-reflection figure into this? I mean, do you do a lot of thinking about yourself and who you are? Why do I do the things that I do? And how does all that kind of figure into your identity as a person? Because I know some people, let's say, who are autistic will kind of think about themselves.
primarily as I'm autistic, other people will say, well, yeah, I'm autistic, but that's not the primary thing about myself. i'm a musician i'm a mom and i'm all these other things too and they don't put autism you know front and center and i wonder for for you folks how that works as part of your identity i mean do you Do you kind of go through life every day just kind of thinking, just kind of this, I'm autistic, I'm ADHD?
Or does it kind of depend on the day? I'm not sure if I'm phrasing all this thing right, but can you respond to any of those things? Yeah, I would say it comes up sometimes during the day. It's definitely not kind of where I lead with most of the time. Yeah. And it does tend to come up more often.
as you know the negative it's the okay oops i got distracted and forgot to leave work though you know i kind of laugh to myself and say well that's adhd for you yeah you know or i um i'm constantly having to kind of manage my sensory environment and so that's that's kind of a constant kind of slow drip reminder of the autism um
but it's like i think a lot of the positive aspects about myself like the curiosity and the kind of constant desire to improve you know my my processes my interactions with people you know and the stuff like that all stem from the autism and the ADHD. So I think it's a little subtle sometimes. I don't necessarily frame it in terms of the conditions. but it definitely like the aspects of myself that i enjoy are aspects that i would not have as strongly if i did not have these conditions
Right. It's not like you're thinking, I'm autistic or I'm ADHD. It's not that out in front like that. It's just like maybe just throughout the course of the day, things will happen that either make you think, oh, that's my ADHD or... maybe even more subtly like you were talking about that i'm just i'm just being curious and that's a really cool feature and a real cool thing about you because um
I love curiosity because I think it gives life a lot of meaning. So it's a very cool thing. Sheree, anything you want to add about that? pertaining to that yeah i think a pivotal moment for me was going to therapy because pre-therapy all i thought about was how different i was and how bad that was okay and so It wasn't a, oh, I have ADHD, I'm autistic. It's a, there's something clearly wrong with me because I can't fit in anymore. After therapy and learning, oh.
actually you have ADHD, you have autism, like once that came to light as being a good thing. then there is an absolute obsession for two years on what does this mean? What do you mean I can have these disorders? Are they disorders?
can i do something with that like and then it yeah i did obsess over it for for quite some time and i think it took going through all of the obsessions to get to a point where i like who i am i like how i function and i function really well and so i don't think about it now unless i'm interacting with the client and i'm finding like i'm having counter transference oh hey their brain is skipping like mine skips oh they're fixated on
so then it comes to life i usually i think i've come to accept who i am and so i don't obsess over it as much as i used to Well, we're getting toward the end of our episode here. And I'd just like you two to share, if there's one thing you'd like to share with the Autism Nation audience, the listeners.
What's one takeaway, one thing that you would like them to know about what we've talked about tonight or anything else that you'd like to share with them? I mean, I would definitely say... find find your tribe um two years ago when i first kind of identified as as being autistic i found a local autism peer support group so and seen
you know seen all these other adults that had autism and about half of them also have ADHD it's like it was very clear that like yes this was the correct um kind of identification for for myself because i wasn't you know 100 sure then um and also just i think finding people you know whatever platform you're on whether it's youtube or twitter or instagram or whatever find other autistic creators there to follow so that you can hear their stories because i think
you get enough of those different stories together you can find people who are very similar to you you know because you have some autistic people that are like very different but then you if you kind of spread the net wide enough you can find other people who are very similar to you and it's very validating to
to kind of see those other people and they're like oh yeah that sounds exactly like my life yes yes and i and i think you know there are so many good books out there now i think i think if you look back about five years ago There are books out there, but not as many as there are now. And same with YouTube channels and podcasts.
about autism or adhd and and there are some really good ones out there so and plus the groups that you were talking about sure how about you what's what's a takeaway for the audience um biggest takeaway for me was learning there's a different side of everything and being curious, being so, so curious about yourself. letting go of this stigma of, is this a fad? Am I making it up? All of the things that come with these diagnoses, being able to see that and evaluating.
I don't know if it is or isn't, but I'm going to do my research, kind of like Christopher was saying, like, I'm going to figure out what aligns with me. And then I'm going to be so curious and I'm going to be so compassionate. to myself because if i can grant myself that compassion then maybe others will too yeah the self-compassion is so important isn't it i mean oh my gosh and i i like what you said about um
you know, the curiosity. I find that, you know, I do both types of evaluations, ADHD and autism, all the time for adults. And when I ask... people at the very end after you know they've kind of gone through the interview they've taken all of the tests and i go over the test results with them um and i ask them well how does this feel that I've diagnosed you with whatever it is. And I would say probably in about 80% of the cases, especially for autism, they'll say, I feel validated.
Because it's something that they suspected for so long. And like, Chris, I think you were talking about self-diagnosis. And for some people, that's good enough. They don't feel the need to do the... the formal diagnostic assessment some people want the validation and though and that's that's what i find when i ask that question it's a very common experience And for them, it means a lot that somebody...
objectively just kind of looked at them kind of talked with them had dialogue and and saw that yes what you suspected all along it's it's what's going on here and um and it's a good thing And it's not a bad thing. Well, thanks so much to the two of you for doing this again. And this time we are going to get this thing out there because I can see that I'm actually recording this time.
Thank you so much for being part of this. And happy holidays. We're about less than 10 days, I think, away from Christmas. So happy holidays. And thanks again for being part of this. Thank you.