Evolving Your Career: Personal Growth in Salesforce

I hope this week's episode will help as we discuss evolving your career and how to find personal growth with Salesforce . Today's episode features Kiro Witte , and it was an absolute pleasure hearing from someone who has helped thousands of people find Salesforce jobs . I first met Kiro in the Dallas area where he co-leads a Salesforce Meetup group .

This group has been so positively received in the local DFW community because it's a perfect networking spot for admins where we can talk shop but also find new friends in the ecosystem . In this week's episode we had a wonderful discussion on overcoming challenges , embracing new opportunities and what should new admins value most when they're getting started .

I'm really excited for everyone to listen along and hear the perspectives of an amazing Salesforce recruiter . So , without further ado , let's meet Kiro . Kiro is an experienced technology recruiter , currently AVP at Third Republic , a leading go-to Salesforce and engineering staffing provider .

Kiro holds three Salesforce certifications and during his eight year career , has placed over 500 individuals across the world . He also co-organizes the North Dallas Salesforce Meetup Group , with a network of close to 1500 individuals who meet on a quarterly basis .

Kiro supported businesses hire both individuals and build teams to scale for a mixture of companies from local Dallas based small to medium sized businesses to global enterprise conglomerates . His passion is for connecting the dots between individuals seeking new opportunities and businesses hiring for the very best of the best .

So let's not waste any more time and dive on in Sitting down to kind of talk about the idea of growing in the ecosystem and what that looks like when you're trying to get your first job .

I'm excited to discuss a little bit further with you and , as you said , it has been a frantic end to the year , so go easy on your questions .

So kind of the first thing to dive into it and something I've talked about with a few other people and I personally love getting people's viewpoints on is just understanding everyone's background , how they got into the ecosystem and then kind of figuring out around how they were learning . So I guess the first question is what is your background in the ecosystem ?

Give us a quick introduction about kind of your background inside of the Salesforce ecosystem .

So my first introduction to Salesforce for those that are listening and can pick up on my accent , I'm not originally from America , so I am a Brit , and my first interaction with Salesforce was working in the UK as a recruiter , as a broader technology recruiter , not necessarily specializing in Salesforce , but more change in transformation programs , and the area of

focus for me back then , almost eight , nine years ago , was the charity sector and I had a customer that were looking to move from Microsoft Dynamics and were pretty much given Salesforce for free back in probably I want to say 2016 , 2017 . Yeah , yeah , so this is pre-NPSP . That wasn't a thing .

It was pure sales cloud , pretty much without the bells and whistles , but at its core , a different , unique product and I think the thing for context as well here is Salesforce in Europe is a couple of years , in my opinion , behind Salesforce America , so even more so , just to set the scene , it was kind of super early days for Salesforce as a brand , as a

business , in the UK market and there weren't necessarily quick wins have been able to look for talent based on certifications , or even at that time where they called Salesforce admins , it was maybe a CRM admin and you just had to kind of call through and ask hey , by the way , have you heard of Salesforce and buying chance to get any experience with it ?

I think Trailhead maybe you'll be able to remind me , jacob , but I think Trailhead back then was a fraction of the platform that it is today .

I think 2016 was . I keep thinking yeah , 2016 , four years ago .

I then had a bit of exposure to the O'Hana the size of the opportunity in Salesforce and I met Thurberpublic , which is a Salesforce and engineering staff and provider that I'm currently still working with .

It's been over five and a half years now in the US market , based out of Dallas , same as yourself , and pretty much exclusive to just supporting customers identify Salesforce talent .

So my experience is maybe a little bit more unique than others that might be on this series , in a sense that it comes from a recruiters perspective and that is a perspective having supported , I would estimate , a couple hundred different customers across the US , placing at least 375 Salesforce specific resources over a five and a half year period of time .

It's also just a very different perspective of you know a lot about the ecosystem less because you are inside of the system every single day like an admin , like a Marketer , like a salesperson , but you still had the same knowledge and Kind of insights to offer as any other admin . So now I'm really Kind of excited to I didn't realize that there was some .

You had done so much in the ecosystem , even outside of third Republic . So I'm really really excited to kind of talk with you and your takes on how people can or should be growing within the ecosystem and how they can get their start .

You go to a local bar in the DFW area and it's just a place for people to network , for people to talk .

It's less about again us talking about the tech , us talking about the specifics we do while we're there just because we can't help it , but it's for everyone and for like-minded people to just chit , chat and learn and Just get to know each other and understand that community . So my first question for you is that you had this community group .

You've done amazing things with it . How do you believe Engagement in whether it be the Salesforce community specifically , or or the official Salesforce community or the unofficial Salesforce community Plays a part in your role or the journey of a new ad ?

I don't know if you're at the first one we ever did , with myself and Robert , but we , you know , quite simply , the venue couldn't accommodate the number of people that turned up Probably quadruple the amount we were expecting .

You know , we had to scrap our format of kind of the traditional Presentation , show and tell kind of format and just say , hey look , everyone's here because they have a , have one thing in common Salesforce . So let's , let's network , let's let's chat and share experiences , stories , questions here's our guest attendees .

And you know , I see , I see questions don't leave anything on the table and that you know the success from that and having to kind of adapt to that format has has seen us do another 15 over almost a two-year period .

So but , but yes , in , in answer to your question , I think , look very simply , there are a ton of benefits for individuals to gain from going to those types of Formatted events , whether it's you more traditional Laptop , spring your laptop .

So let's work through a flow , whether it's a you know , texas Dreaming style conference or a world tour , whether it's dream force or whether it's just like a happy hour vibe , right , I think you know a lot of the barrier to entry , in particular for Salesforce individuals , is Is your network .

So the emphasis on networking and attending these events not necessarily go with a mindset that hey , it's gonna get me a job , but more of an open mindset to networking and maybe finding you know somebody that relates to your story , can share , share it some advice that they , they wish they knew when then , when they were in your shoes , two , three , five , ten

years ago . You know and sharing snippets of information , pros , you know , professional tips , pros and cons of doing XYZ . You know the classic debates around what search to focus on , what career path to go down , end customer versus partner , all these questions that you you know you might have Starting out in your journey as a new admin .

You know there are people in these environments that you know have been in those shoes and can add value and want to give that value bit , like yourself , want to do something to give back To the community and help , help others on their journey to be in a successful Salesforce admin .

What's something you would say to someone who's kind of on the fence , feeling uncomfortable about attending an event , like , again , a Community meetup or just something local ?

So I think , look , you know it's a small network , especially when you look at the local meetups and local events Reach out to one of the user group leaders beforehand and just be honest and just say , look , you know , I would love to come and participate in this Meetup or or event . You know , I don't really necessarily know anyone that's going .

Would you mind ? You know , introducing me to some people , could I , could I talk to you and and you help facilitate a couple of introductions for me with Other attendees ? You know I'm interested in learning XYZ . Who do you think who is going would be a useful point of contact for me .

And then , and then you know you can look at that person before Before meeting them in person . Hey , quick , heads up . I saw your RSVP to the next North Dallas South Cross meetup . Would love to connect , just have a quick couple minute conversation beforehand .

I Saw the number of attendees and you know I'll be honest , it's a little bit overwhelming , would you ? Would you mind just hop on a quick call with me a couple minutes ahead of time so I've got a familiar face to say hello to .

Once I'm there , there is nobody , I believe if they received that message , who wouldn't hop on a call with somebody to make someone feel a bit more comfortable ? That is such the Ohana spirit of this ecosystem .

So don't feel like you don't belong at the table or don't belong in the meetup and feel comfortable asking those questions . It's just a really good first step . I love where you're going with that .

If I'm ahead of a pitch or something like that and it's a big deal , sure I still get those butterflies in my stomach , right , or I'm asked the question . I haven't been asked for a long time . I still feel like that , even after doing this job for eight , nine years .

So I think you're always going to have that in your career , regardless , and the quicker you can get comfortable with being uncomfortable , the better .

There's always that moment of like I'm going to forget everything I ever know and I'm going to be the dumbest person these people I've ever seen . Once you just put yourself out there , take that first step , all the anxiety flows away and you're in the moment you . At this point , it's too late to turn back .

So you just have to take that first step and , honestly , that's the hardest part .

So I still , if I , you know , every meetup , before every meetup that we do , you know , and I feel totally comfortable in those environments , but before every , every , every meetup that I do , I have a big workout . It's always something that , you know , I just feel like energizes me . I work out always around four o'clock , you know .

I get showered , have a quick bite to eat and then I'm at the meetup ready to set and set and things up around 545 , 6 , ready to keep things up . So that for me is is my way of you know any jitters there might be , are people going to turn up or , you know , is everything going to go well , even 15 , 16 meetups later .

I do that religiously before every , every meetup that you know , I co-organize with Robert .

I think that's a wonderful kind of piece of advice for people so pivoting a little bit off of engaging with the Salesforce community , I kind of want to dive into your attending the community , your learning about the ecosystem , and that's great . But now you need to figure , make a choice . What do you do in the ecosystem ?

So , thinking about knowing that there are so many career paths , clouds to learn , there's so many options you have in this big , huge , fun ecosystem , what is your view on diversifying your skills ? Or what is your recommendation on how people should learn and what skills they should learn inside of the ecosystem , like , should they have a niche ?

Should they learn everything Kind of what's ? What's your take ?

So , if you are starting your career and looking for that first role , I strongly believe that you are in identifying quick wins and also combining that with something that you enjoy .

Example if you are a teacher and you taught yourself Salesforce , you got onto Trailhead , you got your admin certification and you want a transition to be a Salesforce admin , let's say , because you've identified , from that Trail mix perhaps , that you enjoy some of the tasks and you've got your certification .

My advice would be target the education sector , be proactive in identifying all the education companies , the different types of organizations that make up the education space , whether it's ed tech , whether it's traditional K12 , whether it's universities and proactively reach out and share your story . Hey , jacob , I used to be a teacher for 12 years .

I recently had this epiphany , which was XYZ , and I took it upon myself to go and learn Salesforce . I hopped onto Trailhead , I spent X amount of hours and I was able to get my Salesforce admin certification .

Is there any opportunity for me to either volunteer or , you know , potentially go into a bigger role if you're hiring now , or whether you're not just to kind of showcase what I've learned so far and See if there's any value I can bring to your Salesforce org ? And and this is all proactive through LinkedIn .

Linkedin's an amazing platform to get that visibility on who's in what company do they use Salesforce . You can quickly you know , quickly identify . LinkedIn stocking is no longer Shame like a shameful thing when I meet someone , the first thing I do is I'm not checking their Facebook , their Instagram . I'm on LinkedIn .

That's my social talking , so you know what do they do . But yeah , I think you know I would pick the low hanging fruits where you might be able to stand out from your competition .

You have transferable industry knowledge , whether that's you know a pain points that these sectors face , whether it's you understand the regulatory requirements if you're in the healthcare space , whether it's you know you worked in compliance or or mortgage claims , so you got knowledge that you can add value to a bank .

These are the low hanging fruits from Getting your foot in the door that I would recommend to people .

If you're starting out with with no paid experience at all from a Salesforce standpoint , that is what I think you have to quickly establish and kind of accept internally that hey , okay , I'm gonna , I'm gonna look for a quick win to get my foot in the door and and then I can , I can look at the bigger picture from from then on Onwards .

You can take your day-to-day job experience of being a teacher , being a nurse , being a Lawyer even yeah , I mean I'm not saying the pay is gonna be better , I mean a lawyer to a Salesforce person , but I Mean one of my clients is is a law firm .

So I mean there , there's so many things you can touch from the Salesforce ecosystem with the industry you are in today . You have to use that and I love where you're coming from completely agree .

You know they've done a bit of everything self cloud , service , cloud , experience cloud so maybe they're not as specialized Versus those individuals that I connect with who are coming from more than mid to enterprise customer base when they have the budgets and the demand to maybe go out and hire someone who only focuses on Field service , lightning or revenue cloud or

marketing cloud , for example . So I think the reason why that question so complex is it completely depends on the scenario of an individual . But , yeah , I think you know , looking at quick wins , looking at what you enjoy , what you're passionate about , you know if you love to build , you look to , you know , get into the intersees of how things work , etc .

Etc . Then you know you might want to go down . You know more of that kind of architecture path , right , that solution , design type . You know career path if you , if you have high attention to detail you like , you know showing others how it's done . You know you can kind of manage multiple spinning plates etc .

Then that cut back to me , screams admin , you know , as your career path . If you're not technical but you love what sells will still . Then there's a whole sales career , right , but you can tap into . So there are so many different career options with different types of skillset , personalities , experience levels .

You know , I think it really is an ecosystem where literally someone can find , you know , anyone can find some kind of connection between a Role and industry and and what , what they are , who they are , what they stand for , right , yeah .

But people who say I'm gonna learn this on the side through YouTube or whatever and I'm gonna make a lot of money , and I would argue that's not a bad route to go down . But you can do the same thing with Salesforce .

Trailhead is such a vast Knowledge center and , to your point earlier , there are so many different Community meetups or opportunities to network with other people comparatively to any other Kind of first or second career path choice . So I I love where you're going with that .

I do want to pivot a little bit because you mentioned you ask kind of two common questions a lot . I want to dive into the second one , which is around certain certificates . Certifications , so it's at the end of the day , in my opinion I think are very important for the company work for , but I get the worst testing anxiety that you've ever probably seen .

The idea of taking a test even though I probably know all the subject matter Still to this day gives me the worst level of anxiety I've experienced . But I so that's where my Opinion about certs is very biased , because I just don't like taking tests from someone who's on the front lines of recruiting who's who are .

It was talking to new admins , admins who have been around for a while and the company is looking for that right admin . What is your opinion around ? the certs and how they play a role in initial and kind of Within the first few years of career .

include all the different kind of some of those different skill sets and career paths that we spoke with prior . Look , my take on it , jacob , is is is quite simple If you are starting out your journey in today's market , you absolutely have to get certified . There is no excuse .

There is no excuse and I'll be completely honest and if it upsets a few people I'm sorry in advance but you know I will not speak to somebody unless they are certified , because I know the pressures I'm gonna face from our customers have been able to justify why they should spend the time in tune that resource when there are a lot more options out there with

experience and with certifications . You know that that are equally as keen for that opportunity , right ? So if you are sub two years of actual Salesforce hands-on experience , honestly , man might might take and this will maybe get some backlash but be like Ash from Pokemon , collect them all you know , get every .

Get your hands on as many as you can , because it's the thing . The thing is this right , if you get a you know , marketing cloud email specialist sir , are you capable of starting up a marketing cloud email Instance on your own ? No , probably not without the necessary experience , right ?

However , it might just get you that opportunity with a customer to even get that experience in the first place to get the role that might allow you to get more hands-on exposure to marketing cloud right Versus someone who doesn't have a certification . So for me , they are door-openers . They are Examples .

When you have little experience to talk about that you can say , well , look , you know , I've been proactive , I've invested my time , my money , I'm serious about you know Korean Salesforce .

I've got five , six , seven , eight certifications and and whilst I appreciate I'm not Polish , I'm not the finished admin , I don't know all the answers I Would like to bet on myself and say you know , six months guide , I didn't know anything about Salesforce and this is what I can show you that I've , I've , I've understood and been able to Accomplish during that

period of time . So , yeah , I think they're a non Negotiable deal breaker for individuals that are trying to get their break in the in the ecosystem today .

I've been doing this since I was 19 years old , so I've lucked out a little bit in that I got my certs just within the last five years and I've been doing this now for a very long time .

But your point is absolutely valid in that for people just getting started , it's I look at it as like the whole when you're in college and you're having that debate of like okay , I need again entry level position , but again entry level position , I need three years of experience , well , to get three years of experience , I need an entry level position .

It's that like weird horrible loop and the certs are kind of being that point of giving you the opportunity . So you don't fall into that . So I respect in here everything you're saying , but the horrible test taker in me can't stand it . But it's absolutely valid .

Or create a flow for me , right , More like the trail head exercises which are incorporated into a test and it's timed and maybe that might be the answer to go versus multiple choice . I don't know . That's a decision above our pay grades , right . So , maybe one day .

But look , I think I'll liken it to a lot of people went to university who spent thousands and thousands to get a degree . Now some people are practicing in that field of study , but there's a knot right .

But you still went to university , you got that degree for a reason because that opened the door to an opportunity , and that's my belief , what Salesforce certs do for someone entering the market . They are compared to other certifications Scrums , project management certifications , itil , et cetera .

They're pretty cheap in comparison and there is no need in a theory , to go external and buy courses et cetera , et cetera . You can get certified by just using trail head alone .

So for me the barriers to entry is zero and I think it's a great starting point to help increase the number of conversations with both recruiters , businesses that are hiring and just kind of give you some immediate credibility when you're starting out in your career .

But when you're first starting out , too , if you have the ability because I know also times are tough and certs do cost money and you may not have that being able to either negotiate with your potential future employer or find out an employer who's willing to invest in your growths , and like I know the company I'm with we will actually help pay for certs and

like as part of your depending on your role , obviously . But if you're just starting out , we know that you are good at being a consultant and talking with people , but you don't have the background .

We'll build it into like your first three , six month plan to like get XYZ certs to help you out so that you can , one , gain credibility but , two , just get the knowledge and grow quickly in the ecosystem .

So keeping a lookout for opportunities like that I know they're not always easily accessible , but it's just keeping an open mind for it I think it's the biggest thing , cause again , you could be a stubborn person like me and just say I'm just gonna look for jobs that don't require certs or be flexible .

They're a partner , they need a resource on that project who has the right set of certifications so , and they tend to be more experienced resources or maybe a niche certification . Right , that's how they won the project in the first place . So there are different scenarios but we've seen both .

Likewise , we've seen on some government projects if you don't have a bachelor's degree you can't get the job right .

So I'm not saying it's a black and white yes or no answer , but I think again in this market which is a little bit more challenging in general , I think you would almost be like a suicide mission if you weren't to get certifications and you're starting out , because to me it's a test of your seriousness to a new career transition and it shows a future employer ,

your aptitude for learning and growth , mindset and willingness if they're gonna take a bet on you with no experience .

In my opinion , it's no different right ? Just because your job's on a computer and it's Salesforce isn't any . That's a very good call you're absolutely right . Why should you not have to kind of keep your licenses fresh right , the same way you would if you're flying a plane or steering the ship of a Salesforce org . Right ?

At the end of the day , you would pay $30,000 , $40,000 a year for some of that stuff on Trailhead if it was at university , right , the equivalent . So I don't think it's unreasonable for Salesforce to charge a couple hundred bucks for a test , to be honest .

Pivoting to the last question , though , because we are nearing the end of our fun session , I have my big thing that it's kind of a two-parter . The first is around the future of careers in the Salesforce ecosystem . You mentioned the AI certs and some of the data cloud pieces . A Thousand percent agree that those are the future of Salesforce .

It's not gonna be like some of the other things we've seen Salesforce put on the last five years where they kind of Double down on it at Dreamforce and then kind of shy away . I believe AI and data cloud are going to be big .

So , I'm curious your take , as you're Looking at upcoming jobs that are being posted or things people are talking about from the recruiting side , what do you think the future of careers will be like for Salesforce and Salesforce ecosystem ?

real good one . I Think , look , I think the the journey for AI is very early . You know , I think it's very difficult to tell how that will impact the traditional roles the admin , the developer , the project manager , the business analyst , the solution architect , technical architect you know those traditional core roles . I think it is difficult to .

Nobody has the answer . So anyone who's saying you know I'm an AI wizard or whatever , that's not true Because it's so new , right ? So I think .

I think the reality is , and I think what most people would agree is AI needs to be embraced and utilized in a day-to-day capacity , in whatever role you do , because Over the over the next six , nine , twelve months is going to be more and more a .

You don't need to know enough to be dangerous in order to Constantly meet the expectations of a business that you're supporting . Right where that to help you with speed of delivery , whether it's to do more with less , ai is is is , you know , the catalyst for helping , helping you get there .

It might not get you to the destination , but it's the car that you need to drive right . So , and , and you know , I think , the more people embrace it I think them , you know the easier it will be .

I was a bit of a skeptic on the AI one , just because of some of the you know other kind of failed initiatives that were spoken about at different different events , right , but I feel point , I think this is one that will , will stick . So I don't have the answers to it , but I don't think it's necessarily gonna replace roles completely at all .

I think we're gonna see maybe some downsizing of Salesforce resources on orcs . So whether , let's say , you know they , an organization , a , might have had three developers To admin the solution architect .

Yeah , they might condense those roles down and maybe Take away some of the admin response to people , but they incorporate more business analysis as part of that role . So it's like a hybrid admin BA with Salesforce go more click-not code .

Anyway , maybe that admin dev role becomes a bit more morphed in those smaller organizations , right , as as they look to supplement some of that easy quick win tax with AI .

So they're an admin , but they're kind of the company they work for doesn't have the finances or just doesn't have the insight to hire a full coding team . So they will just kind of find someone who can either go with that click not code route or who can ? Know enough just to be dangerous and kind of be that individual . So you're seeing a lot more .

Yeah , I know , I am in the community . I think that's really interesting .

But but yeah , I think , joking aside , I think you know , look , I , I am a firm believer that AI will Not completely replace roles in the ecosystem . You know , yeah , I isn't taking my job and maybe I regret saying that alive . You know , in 10 years time , I don't know . But I think these roles Might reduce as a result of AI .

But but if you're able to embrace AI and and learn AI your own advantage , you'll be in a good position . And that's just kind of a general . Again , I'm not close enough to the development of AI to be able to kind of pitch in more than that , but that's , that's . That's kind of my take on the subject for now .

It so still too early to tell , but we definitely know there's gonna be some Affect and something that will come a bit positively for people absolutely .

So last question , truly last question , because we are nearing the end of time and I ask this to everyone If you could go back to yourself at the start of your Salesforce journey , or , as you've talked to people at the very start of this sales for their Salesforce journey , what is the number one piece of advice you want to give them to help them grow ?

Keep a record on Excel or Google sheets . No , whether , however fancy you are , of a few things one , all the companies that you supported , that , what their Salesforce products suite included , how many licenses , how many users , who your manager was .

All that information because when you're looking back , you know five years time from now and unless they you've done you know you've worked at a partner . You're maybe working on five to ten different projects a year . You know very quickly , in five years you could have accumulated maybe 50 projects that you've supported in some capacity .

You're not going to remember all those different industries , products , locations of clients , sizes of businesses , and I think you know , as you develop your career further , that there are . You know there are times when it's it's I need somebody who has manufacturing experience and they've rolled out an implemented revenue cloud .

Let's say hypothetically , and sometimes , if you can pinpoint right , I had a customer in 2021 . Right , it was a two month proof of concept and the Org was X amount of users that that might again , might be enough to just kind of nudge that conversation forward , put you in in contention for that role .

So document everything and just be like really religious around it . The other thing I would say is it get linked in recommendations as you go , not when you're looking for role . Hey , I'm out of the job , can you help me by write me a recommendation ? Right , you know it . That's harder to do when it was three years ago .

When you work with someone because , hey , you might have changed completely three years ago , I don't necessarily want to go out and put a link in recommendation against when I worked three years ago .

So , as you move from project to project , company to company , be proactive and get those linked in recommendations , because that is all your brand and credibility and , and , and that is what's going to get you , you know , more and more opportunities is , is , is , is that perspective . And and the final one is just keep on top of the search .

The biggest frustration as a recruiter and and the thing I just don't understand is you've done all the hard work to get the Set of certification in the first place , the hours and hours of studying , the cost , etc .

Don't don't be unorganized and let that Maintenance surpass and , you know , have to redo the whole thing again because I can't imagine any Worst kind of kicking in , kicking the stomach . Then if I had to go out and do any of my certification exams again you know I've done them once . I don't want to re go back through that studying . So they're my three .

You only ask for one , but they're my three bits of advice . No , I love that . That's . That's great insight .

If you anyone has any questions , we'll make sure to link Kiro's LinkedIn information as well as a link to the Dallas meetup if you're a local Dallas IIT or DFW area . But again , thank you so much , kiro , really appreciate you taking the time today . No , the pleasure was all mine , jacob .

Or , if you're based in the Dallas Fort Worth area , you can search Salesforce north dallas meetup on meetupcom . We hope you found this conversation helpful as we dive into the new year and get 2024 plans put in place . It's been an absolute pleasure being your host and working with our guests to highlight their amazing journeys .

It's been a wonderful month of December to share these admin stories with everyone and I absolutely cannot wait for what 2024 has in store . So thank you again for taking the time to listen and support our podcast . If you have any feedback , questions or topic suggestions , we'd love to hear from you .

So don't hesitate to connect with us on LinkedIn , twitter or email us at info at admins of tomorrowcom . If you enjoyed this episode , don't forget to subscribe , leave a review and share it with your fellow trailblazers . Once again , I'm Jacob Catalano , your host , signing off . Have a wonderful holiday season and a happy new year .

We appreciate you for listening to admins of tomorrow trailblazing the next generation .