Empowering Admins: Navigating the World of App Development in Salesforce

I said it at the end of January's episode and it brings even more true now , but this has been such a whirlwind year and I'm so very thankful to everyone who's been able to support and watch the show and honestly been able to help this podcast grow into what it is today .

With that said , there's so much to look forward to in March , like Trailblazer DX , which is going to take place next week on March 6th and 7th in San Francisco . Now I call this conference out because it has become a go-to event for Salesforce developers , admins and architects alike .

So what better way to lead into a conference for developers than to meet with this week's guest ? Today we're going to sit down with Adam Erstelle , a Salesforce app developer and technical architect , who has been someone I've had the pleasure of working alongside for many years now .

Now , before working with Adam , the idea of adding anything code related to what I was working on in Salesforce felt horrible . It was not anything I wanted to even touch with a 10-foot pole , but over time I had the opportunity to learn from Adam that API , apex , sql really anything you can do with code in Salesforce wasn't a hindrance .

Rather , it was another set of tools that I could use , and my team could use , to grow and develop and make our lives so much easier . So , with that said , I can't wait for everyone to hear Adam's story and learn how new admins can get started and find their way in app development in Salesforce . So , without further ado , let's meet Adam .

Adam Erstelle is a senior technical architect and seasoned technology leader with a proven track record of delivering complex , innovative solutions and building successful engineering teams . Adam has over 20 years of software and development team leadership experience and a knack for diving into new technologies and learning them quickly .

Skilled in Apex , java , spring , mvc and data rest mobile applications , adam and body strong engineering knowledge with a history of helping teams modernize their development practices and methodologies . So let's not waste any more time and dive on in . So thank you so much , adam . Really appreciate you for taking the time to jump in and be on podcast with us today .

So , before we dive into the kind of technical which you and I love , I'd love if you could just give a quick introduction of yourself and kind of give us a story of how you got into the ecosystem .

I was working for an internet service provider and I excelled at my job to the point where I would get thrown on a project , I would deliver it ridiculously early and then my boss was just telling me to take a few days off because he didn't know what to do with me .

It also got to the point where I would only work like half an hour a day and like there was literally no other work for me to do , which , you know , on the surface sounds kind of cool but say that sounds like the dream .

And , you know , at the very beginning it kind of was because I was able to , you know , dig into forums I learned a whole bunch about , like home theater and home improvements and , you know , just trying to fill the time to , well , frankly , stay awake . And once that got tired and , you know , over with I just literally started napping at my desk .

I would have a sign that says wake me for work . And , you know , even after a while , that was just ridiculous . So I was able to get out after about like four and a half years of four years I don't know something like that Wow . And I joined this little tiny startup that was looking to get into the digital signage space for for hospitals , right ?

So nowadays you go to a hospital , there's TVs that have information , a couple ads , right ? The startup was one of the ones that we're trying to pioneer that After a year the grant money ran out and I actually went back to that telecommunications company and I think that's really where my development journey like really started , started to take off .

I was able to learn a whole bunch about web development . I was building web apps that would actually run on the TV . So , like that was really , really cool . I started to get into some user groups up there , you know , kind of getting out in the community a little bit . And then I moved to the States , basically to , you know , try to start something up .

So that was my second foray into , like the startup world . It kind of flopped . And then , you know , I started working for a telecommunications company down here . I guess close to the end of that , you know , five year stint Again , I started running into a . I ran into a neighbor at the time who was starting a company that was doing consulting for part up .

He had basically copied a script off the internet , he broke it and you know , as one does , absolutely . But he didn't know how to fix it . So he came over . You know , we had a couple beers .

I put the semi colon in the right spot and it started working Right , so he was able to delight the client and he's like hey , you want to keep doing this stuff , and that's basically like literally how I got into the Salesforce ecosystem .

Prior to that , I just I knew it as a logo , I've seen it in the news a few times , but I didn't know what Salesforce was Right .

But you know we're all here now and you know it's awesome that we're able to share these experiences .

They were working half an hour a day and just kind of not feeling fully fulfilled and they kind of looked into that space of it all .

I'm curious for you being more on the developer side , what was that transition like from more again more traditional coding , I assume actually I'm not going to assume what language you were coding in , but realistically it was not some of the stuff you see more regularly on Salesforce .

I assume it was really easy to kind of figure things out on the Salesforce back end . So kind of I'd love to hear your side of it , though , of how difficult was it to kind of shift mental gears from your day to day coding for kind of web apps and development to Salesforce developing ?

But it just happens a lot because there's so many business apps out there and they need to talk to each other in order for us to actually realize business value .

So when I got into the Salesforce ecosystem and started building things a little bit more elaborate than placing a semicolon and a text file right , I found that I was able to lean on all of the other development skills I had built over 15 years . And that's not unique to me , right ?

Anyone who's moving jobs , moving careers , you always try to lean on the skills you've already built to help make the switch . Yeah , right Now , specifically for Salesforce's development language , which is called Apex . Some of the people here might have heard of that . It was based on the Java development language that quite a while ago .

So the Java language has moved on and evolved quite a bit . Apex kind of hasn't . But if you know Java , if you know C sharp or those types of languages , apex is a fairly easy switch . Now you still have to learn Salesforce and the platform and its capabilities , but it helped me ease into that fairly quickly .

I also truly believe that more and more of what we're going to see from new admins is going to require some level of understanding , for maybe not being able to fully write your own script , but to be able to read and understand how Apex is affecting your automations , your processes , is going to be more and more crucial for the new admin .

So I do think it's interesting to know that if you can understand these coding languages , you may have a leg up in the ecosystem . So that's a kind of nice little tidbit for new admins .

Changing the subject a little bit , though , to the kind of your introduction to the ecosystem , you've had the opportunity to be a close part of the partner community , and so , for people out there who don't know what the partner community is , I love it if you could really quickly just give a quick overview for new admins what is the partner community and how

can't really benefit new admins ?

Small companies who are looking to help other businesses use Salesforce right . That's a consultant . It lines up with a consulting program . Totally makes sense . Now for the admins who are interested .

Another program that might align a little bit more is the independent software vendor , or abbreviated ISV , and the ISV program is the beginning to getting a listing on the app exchange . Another type of partnership that Salesforce has is the reseller , and it's a little bit more popular , or a lot more popular in the Southern Hemisphere .

That's how Salesforce is likely to sell their services or its software . So yeah , those are the three main kinds of partner programs with .

I'm curious your take on what opportunities is that offering for new admins who are starting there , who can create their own LLC , who can get their own business up and running and kind of dive into that freelance space within the community ?

So a better way , I think , of the question is how is being an ISV valuable , not only from adding to the community but a viable option of moving forward as a way to create a career in the ecosystem ?

You build the thing , other people are paying you to use it and there's not really much else that needs to go on there . Now , some of the benefits of actually being listed on the App Exchange is that , well , a companies who are trying to find a solution to the problem , they know that Salesforce has done the security review .

They know that they can trust your solution . Right , so that's at least for me , that's the perceived biggest benefit , right ?

Another thing too right , depending on how you're able to network and meet people inside of Salesforce , right , when Salesforce is going to go , you know , sell to a company that has already identified that problem , they might be able to recommend your app as part of selling the Salesforce licenses .

Right , they can say , hey , you know , I mean they won't say it like this , but they'll say we know that we don't natively address this particular need but this App , exchange app , does . So you know , as an overall package , we have a solution that meets your business needs .

Maybe go for the advanced admin or go for the platform developer cert and the app developer cert , so it is interesting to see that transition for admins . With that being said , there's a lot of things to be cognizant about , so one of them being how do you get the ideas to create these apps ?

A lot of people don't realize that these apps , as you mentioned earlier , are to address specific challenges , so how do you go about identifying that ? Hey , this is a challenge that might exist . I should build an app for this .

The best way to try to identify that is to talk to other companies , other users , and the Salesforce ecosystem has a couple of really great places where you can go out and do that . There are some Slack groups , like there's Ohana Slack . There's a few different , just chat environments where you can go in and talk with other users .

It's hit and miss , I guess , if you're trying to vet a new idea , because most of those users are doing their day job and they're focusing on other things . Another really good one is to find a user group that's local to you . Just jump in , join a couple of times and then you can start chatting with the other people who show up .

Now it's not as mass reach as a Slack group , but having that personal touch , having that face-to-face conversation , can often yield better conversations than an online thread .

You have to pull people , you have to rely on the community , because if you want it to be successful , you need more than just you to think it's a good idea . With that being said , let's talk about your first experience building an app , which is always kind of the hardest one . I've always been told you might believe , think differently on that .

But what was the process like of fantastic ? You found the idea . You realized , hey , this is something that a good amount of people see as an issue in the ecosystem . We can build something to automate and solve for this . What was the process like of saying fantastic , here's idea . Next step go through the design .

Here's how we need to code it a little bit and then also make it user-friendly . From an experienced standpoint , yeah , that one's interesting .

I'm not very good at naming things , so everything that I make has a very literal . This is what it does . No surprises , but we've working at a consulting agency .

We had solved this problem for I don't know three or four different customers already , and I might not be the smartest guy who comes up with brand new business ideas , but I can recognize a pattern . Hey , three or four companies have had this problem . Maybe a whole bunch of companies have this problem .

So that was the first , literally the first step for me was identifying a pattern of something that can be solved . Now , once you've done that , for me the next couple steps are in the way that we've solved it already .

Are there company specifics that are currently built into the solution that don't make sense when you try to scale it across multiple businesses ? So those are the things that either you have to take out or you have to bring up to a higher level or make it a little bit more abstract .

Now , once you get rid of or you solve that for company-specific whether it's features or wording or whatever it is the next level in my mind is looking at okay , are there industry specifics that we need to take that same approach for ?

If we're building an industry-specific application or package , then we don't need to do that , but if we're trying to build something that is industry agnostic , well then again , the wording and the maybe even fields we have to solve for that to make it appealing to a wider base .

As you step back each of those two times , your solution is getting a little bit more generic .

So you might have user guides that are industry-specific , where you can still relate those specific things to what you've genericized , and that can take the shape of some demo videos , or it can take the shape of user guides or whatever you need to do , maybe even in-app guidance .

But , honestly , though , being able and you did this a little bit with the Automated Opportunity Contact Rules app , because I use that application that was associated with the company we worked for , circante , but I use that tool before I even started working with Circante and ultimately , what was my selling point ?

Not only just because I needed that solution fair again , I needed to automate the addition of opportunity contact rules and the second . I saw that I was like , yes , that's what I need . And when we purchased it and started using it , I was very confused . At first I was like , what do I do ? How do I get started ? Again , the user guide was helpful .

And then in the app , you had on the left side of the screen , the step-by-step process of click this , click this , click this , click this Again . Love the click-not code .

And then on the right side , were instructions and overviews as to kind of really detail out in depth in the moment , so I can kind of instead of having to have documentation here and the actual user experience here , it was all in one , so I'm on the same screen figuring it out as I go yeah , and I think I think admins have a huge leg up on anyone else

who's trying to build an app for the Salesforce ecosystem .

So an admin who's looking to design or create an app like this , that leg up I was talking about earlier , is how do we make this A as rock solid of a user experience that we can for the admins right ?

In my opinion , the user experience of the install and setup is probably one of the most important things that a Salesforce app can focus on as part of the install . If the admin installing it doesn't have confidence , doesn't trust it , they're not even going to begin to roll it out to users . They're going to lose that confidence .

They're going to say you know what , it's not worth this . Maybe it feels sketchy , like you were saying earlier , so you really want to just build it , to be stretching here by saying being a delight to set up , but that's kind of what you have to aim for , totally .

and someone who doesn't understand the technical as possible and again , just make it click one , click two , click three , click four , boom , you're done . And that is something that I do . Like you said , admins are going to immediately understand and know I have to make it this way or it's not going to get by and it's not going to be successful at all .

Right where it's , you know , step one it's got a little bit of like a heading or whatever and some text right , and then step two and then , as you complete the steps , they get checked right .

That's kind of the experience or the paradigm that is popular right now and in the latest app that I put together and I released it just a month ago is in that setup experience . I actually like I'll query permission sets to make sure that you know the permission set from my app has actually been assigned .

I will query , like Salesforce sites , to make sure a site was created right , so it's . It's not that the admin says , yes , I did this step and trust me , right , my setup assistant like queries as much as possible and we'll tell the admin . Hey , you know of four steps . You missed step number three . You have to go back and assign this permission set .

How are you , as the app developer , building into your process feedback and iteration development ?

You're having directly with those other teams , right , you're staying in touch , right , and you're getting that feedback , taking it into consideration and it may may be making the changes Right now , as you start scaling up and you go beyond your , you know , initial I don't know five or 10 companies that helped you starting off , right , that's where you can have

either in app links or things like that . That's , you're asking people to share that feedback . And there's there's probably a bunch of other ways that I have yet to discover on , you know , how can we again make it a delight for the Salesforce admin to provide that feedback ? You know , ideally not taking them out of Salesforce .

So it's an area that I myself need to keep growing into , but I think there's , I think there's a few options that are possible .

thing we get to . We've gotten feedback , we've finally launched it . We may have even made a couple iterations to it and realized , oh , there are things I didn't have and you made those updates . What are you doing or what would ? Again , this is all personal opinion related .

By no means are we saying this is the way to do it and you have to do it this way . But for you , in your experience , how are you measuring whether or not the app was a success ? So whether that is the financial side of it , but also just the you're seeing people use it .

How are you defining that I've made a positive impact and we've gotten the buy in ?

However , you're pricing it like if that's continuing to grow , that might be a success criteria . It could just be .

And , like for the first few apps that I released , this is it's not a very high bar , but once I started seeing other people in the community recommend the things that I've made to help others solve a problem , for me that was like , okay , perfect , like , not only do other people use it and like it , but they're recommending it to other people Right now ,

there's , there's no financial thing for that , right . But for me that's , you know , as someone who's wanting to share something and , you know , fill a gap and help the community . For me that was like , yeah , this is awesome that's .

You've created an app that was free to use for anyone and being able to see those reviews and see those comments , and I definitely agree that that feels good . That feels like , hey , what I'm doing is more than just me putting something into the ether and then it just dies in the black hole .

Now , like the product marketers or product marketing managers who are out there , you know that's just part of their playbook of trying to get reviews so that you know it helps people make the decision right . You're more likely to install an app in your org if it's got a four or five star rating .

Then one who has a low rating , like a one or two stars right , that's almost the kiss of death . And then you know if you have zero ratings right , then it's like well , no one said it's good or bad , so am I taking a gamble here ?

So I'm curious for you how do you handle , or how might a new admin handle , creating an application that's specific around connecting two systems that don't either natively talk to each other or don't natively talk to each other ?

Right , and with an API , that means I have to have code or I have to have something that will ask for information or will push information in Right , so some other system is driving the communication Right . I'll look for APIs in both and I'll also look for web hooks in both .

Right , and web hooks are where the system is pushing information out saying , hey , a new record was created . Go handle it however you want , or you know someone clicks on a link or Some action took place that we need to measure , right , and then it's up to your integration to figure out what to do with it .

Right , so I'll look for APIs and web hooks and then you know , depending on what's available , that will help me determine what needs to be built and where might it need to run .

Right Now , sometimes an integration can be completely built inside of Salesforce , right , so , using Apex or using some declarative things right , you can just kind of build it all within Salesforce and it works great .

Other times , right , it doesn't make sense for various reasons , and you have to have your integration or your code running on a computer in between the two systems , right ?

One of the things you can think of there is like the Zappiers and the work Hottos , right , those are like point and click declarative integration tools that you know kind of do that , and if a work Hottos or a Trey or a Zappier work and they fill the you know they allow you to build that string between the two tin cans then perfect , right , sometimes , though

, it's not possible to use any of those tools because you know your use case is just I don't want to say too unique , but it's just not supported . So then you actually have to build code that sits in between .

That's when I usually try to go away from a Zappier , trey work , hottos type solution and go look at again a more direct API connection , because I've worked with so many people who have always said oh , I don't know how I feel about Zappier , because I've heard from developers that it's not good and we shouldn't use it and we shouldn't look into it and yada ,

yada . And I don't agree with that because I do feel like , like you said , they serve a purpose , they are wonderful tools , they are click , not code and they can do a very good job . But the second I'm starting to deal with like two , three , four hundred records per day hour I just don't feel like that's scalable . So I'm curious your take on that .

I think it's a fair assessment that when you start dealing in large numbers of records , that you know maybe is happier and some of those other tools aren't the best , and I don't yeah , I guess it would depend on you know how many records are you processing ?

You know at the same time , right , and you know it's also going to depend on the API's and what you're trying to do . But a lot of times , custom code , can you know ?

Pull in all the information from one system , pull in all the information from another system , crunch the numbers and then put the results somewhere , right , and that's the kind of thing you're definitely not going to be able to do so well on . You know , zappier and those other those other tools Love that .

There is a recognizable space for those solutions in the ecosystem and they are completely valid to use and we shouldn't dismiss them just because there's no code involved .

Right , because then you don't have to custom make it . Right , it's a lot easier to get started and then you know , as your business needs , or as your ideas needs , evolve and grow , then you might you might grow out of one tool and need to move to another .

It's just a natural progression of any kind of app , right , yeah , that can apply to even , like , the language that you're using to custom code something , or the tools that you're using to support your code .

Like , there's , there's so many , so many things that can come into play as you start scaling and , you know , rip and replace or rewriting things or rebuilding things . It's just a supernatural thing as part of , you know , an app's progression .

It does what a lot of people need to do , but there's a level of what your application does that offers the ability for people to go in and then use the marketing automation emails , those email templates , and automatically connect between Salesforce without the need of an automation rule or engagement studio program or whatever , and it's just so boom boom , boom done .

But to do that you had to be able to call out from zoom , go into a middleware , fix the data , clean it up to make sure that Salesforce could intake it and then push that to Salesforce , so there's a lot of things that are being done from handling that data .

On the other end , though , of just pushing the data from one system to the other , a lot of things we have to worry about for those integrations and just other apps within Salesforce is around data security and compliance . So high level .

What are some of the best practices and things new admins and app developers need to keep in mind when it comes to ensuring their data is compliance and secure ?

But the short version and what I've tried to do with all of the apps that I've made is I don't want to hold on to anyone else's data , I will process it , I will finish processing it and then I forget it and , because I forgot it , there's nothing for me to backup , there's nothing for me to protect .

It makes security a lot easier to talk about when I can say I don't have your data .

You're specifically saying my app that is processing and pushing it . Salesforce it is . It's a one and done . It happens within seconds and then it's gone . Salesforce sure keeps the record and process and it has the last updated by integration user in its audit log so you can know that your integration did something .

But your integration isn't saving any of that data . So there's no risk of an email address or secure information getting caught in the wrong hands , right ?

When you're looking to build an integration that sits off of the Salesforce platform , right , for an admin getting started , likely that's not where you're gonna make your very first thing , right , likely you're gonna Automate something inside of Salesforce .

You know whether it's along the lines of , like , automated opportunity contact roles or whatever your use cases , right . But what's really nice about building on the Salesforce platform is that Salesforce is the one that is storing that data . They're the ones that have all the agreements , all the security Certifications . Right , your app , it's just working with data .

That's already there and it's you know . If you're not moving it out , then again , like you as a company can say I Don't have any of that customer data , it's all inside of your Salesforce org . Yes , my code is in your Salesforce org , it's working with it . But again , I know the Royal , I guess .

Right , I Don't have it , I don't have to , I don't want to say I don't have to worry about it because you still should . But you know there's nothing , nothing there for Security risk .

So just being able to say , yeah , we're manipulating this in your org , but nothing is leaving your org . So I like that , that highlight , so that you can still build apps , you can still build really cool things and solutions in the ecosystem and not have to feel like you're gonna get Sued by whoever you're is buying your app .

easier to look at . You know two different things , right , there's , there's a ton of different ways and Solutions that you can build and deploy , so yeah , that makes a lot of sense .

topic . I have two wrap-up questions . The first is the first of them is specifically around the future of Developing , the future of that in the Salesforce ecosystem and again we could probably talk about Talk two more episodes , specific around the future of developing apps in the future of Coding and developing inside of Salesforce , but again keeping a high level .

I'm curious your thoughts and insights around how do you think the future looks for people coming into the developer space with the introduction of AI and how that's going to help but also hurt people being developers in the ecosystem .

And that has been said a lot you might have heard that and that's never really how it goes , right , you might have a few extreme examples and we've seen that in the news already where you know some companies overseas have , you know , eliminated their workforce or like a giant chunk of it , hoping to replace with AI , and you know it's probably gonna crash and

burn . But hey , you know , as a pioneer , those are some of the chances that you take . The way that I see AI and developers , it's , it's gonna be one of those scenarios of you know , ai won't replace your development job . A developer using AI will . Right , and I think that's gonna be true for a lot of different .

You know industries and job professions Right , you have a new tool that's gonna help you be more efficient right , you got . You have to get on board . Right , you have to learn how to use it . Right , and you can use it in small ways , right .

Myself , the way that I use AI's , I use github's co-pilot right , as I'm writing code , I Basically use it as a very fancy auto complete . Right , and as I'm writing line by line , I have it .

You know , auto suggest either completing that line or maybe it'll auto complete like three or four lines , a little block , right , that's the way that I use it , not to say that that's the way that people have to .

Right , there's lots of examples of people auto generating like an entire program and while it's cool or at least while it is cool from a capability perspective Right , you still have to try to read and understand the code , right ?

So even admins who are looking at someone else's apex that's in their org and you know they're they're reading it to try to understand it . Anyone who's reading code , their brain just naturally thinks that what is written is correct . So it's really hard to troubleshoot or to identify where a problem might be .

Right , you're trusting that what AI has created is gonna work , so it can be tricky .

To your point , the person who knows AI is gonna replace the person who doesn't know AI , because it's a matter of it completed for you , but then you still have to check , you still have to proofread . So the same concept , for we had talked about AI in the world of marketing for content and

Generative AI . In that regard , same principles apply for the coding side , but I'm curious your opinion on it . How should Developers and admins be looking at that code and be testing and be thinking about what level of confidence should you have ? I mean it's reviewing the code you've created historically , so shouldn't that be good enough ?

And then if you have code in your org , right , it's supposed to look at it and help it shape some of its answers . Now I think it'll be interesting , you know , as it gets higher adoption , right , and or it might have been around for a long time that have a whole bunch of garbage code . I think it'll be interesting to see .

You know , is the generative AI capabilities smart enough to , like , lower the priority or De-prioritize some of the garbage stuff and , you know , give more to the nicer , newer things ? So I think it . I think it'll be interesting how you know all that comes together .

But as you've gone through your journey , we've heard your amazing story of getting started in the ecosystem and what you've done and what applications you've created Throughout that whole journey . What is your one regret that you've had that you wish you could go back and say I should have done this differently ? Yeah , I think .

But if you know , if you're an admin looking to grow and you know really looking to Evolve , right , you might want to consider a personal expense of you know Attending these things to help accelerate your growth so that you can get some , you know , newer and Maybe more exciting opportunities .

Now , I recognize not everyone's in the position to be able to do that right . So you know , maybe you try Some more creative ways to get your company to participate , maybe you split costs , I don't know . There's there's a bunch of things there , but again , just getting out in the community a lot more , I think that's something that I would .

I would do differently .

It's the developer , because the developer community inside of the ecosystem is so extensive and it's so rich with talent and insights and amazing stories . So I I love that say call out because it , like you said , so many of us Don't feel like we need to join the community .

Sales force is just a tool that helps us complete our job and we can call it a day and go home to our families and Do whatever . But there is such a value in Afterworks done , meeting up with these people in the community , whether it's through zoom or Webinar or whatever tool you use for meeting , virtual meetups or whether it's in person .

They're so valuable .

And the premise is you know , if I go ask my mom if this business idea is a good idea , whether or not she really thinks it is , she's gonna tell me it's , it's amazing and I'll do great , right . So how can you ask certain questions so that even your mom doesn't lie to you ? Right ?

It might not be on purpose , but you know , if I had some of that book knowledge , you know , five , ten years ago , I think it really would have shaped either some of the apps that I've made differently , or I don't know if it would have tempered some of the ideas , or I don't know .

You should run with it and they will be brutally honest with you and be like hey , three other companies , are we doing this idea or you need to flush it out a little bit more to really find the value . So I like that the kind of idea .

I really enjoyed your story and hopefully the listeners can reach out to you directly if they have any questions .

It was an absolute blast to hear his perspectives on how new admins can think about creating new apps and solutions and Salesforce . I Personally enjoyed how we were able to talk about how to create an app that was not only able to solve challenges but also make it user friendly for admins with a click not code mindset , like myself .

If you'd like to learn more about data cloud or becoming a Salesforce developer , there's still time to register for Trailblazer DX . Go to salesforcecom forward slash trailblazer DX to register now or sign up to watch on Salesforce plus . Thank you all again for taking the time to listen and support the podcast .

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