Trumping Your Values

and this is at Landia. So Laura and I have been working in advertising and marketing for what seems like, I don't know, like how many years, come on, twenty five years? Maybe that's aging us. I'm all there you are, But wings, Alexa and I started this show because we would have long nights of talking about what was happening in the industry. Like our significant others are ready to leave us a long night, we all went to bed together,

all went to bed together. It was a little strange, look, I mean, Landy was really add because over the course of the years we've worked together, we've been a part of some amazing projects. I mean, some truly best in class work that has in some instances redefined revived and

reshaped the industry. And I think, you know, along the Whylox, I mean, we've met some fascinating people, We've developed some kick ass work, amazing relationships, amazing relationships, and I think what we've decided is that the industry oftentimes chases headlines or rehashes the same thing over and over again, just from a different perspective. And what we really wanted to do is dig in a little bit again and talk

about the things in a different way. Talk to people who you may not know, but you should know, definitely should know the people who are changing the way things are gonna look in the future, and they're totally shaping the way we think about brands, the way we think about technology, the way we think about media and future. Absolutely, and I think what's super important about this platform is we wanted to create a space that people can be a part of the conversation um and essentially some thing.

If you were sitting on our couch and having one of our favorites by see Margarita's, this would be natural. Yeah, welcome to Atlandia. Welcome to Atlandia. We're excited to have you, so we're super excited. Later on We've got two super kick ass guests, Bank Lee from Lenny Letter and Jake

Horoetz from Mike. But first we're going to dive into our favorite part of the show, in the Feed, And this segment is really meant to kind of get in and talk about some of the things that are hot and advertising and marketing, all of the things that are keeping us up at night, and most importantly UM kind of talk about why these things matter. Yeah, And it's not like necessarily like in the Feed they just crossed your radar their headlines, it's like this is what's crossing

our radar or like what we're obsessing over? Yeah, for sure. And I think one of the most fascinating things that we've been texting about lately is the did you just see what happened on SNL? Everybody's doing it and I mean they're on a twenty year ratings high. My mother was talking about cold opens we should be talking about. But I think what's what's fascinating is there's this whole cultural context UM in media that's really important right now.

And what I'm super excited to talk to our guests about UM later in the show is this idea of online meeting the offline and SNL is truly blurring the line um, so to speak. And I think it's just fascinating how they've picked up the cultural context. I mean, this news cycle was made to revive SNL. If you're sitting in Laura Michael's chair, yeah, I would say that

that's totally true. I would you remember when you and I went to Malcolm gladwhile he did his final episode of Revisionist History, and it was all about and like, how there's actually this death of satire, that satire isn't this thing that it used to be because satire deals with these really painfully real topics. I think SNL has come back. Malcolm's issue was he felt that Tina Fe and some of the um acting that happened on SNL

during the Sarah Palin run basically copped out. They were focusing like her glasses and her where she got the accent inspiration from. And he was like, bullshit. You had a responsibility as a public figure to call it out, poke holes and say I'm not getting up here and putting on this. I can't even do the accent from New Jersey. I can't do the accent. But but the but the reality is like getting up here and poking fun. It's like, no, there is an underlying message here where

I think SNL this year is killing nailing it. They're killing it. And I think one of the things that again brands can stand to learn about UM is authenticity and this idea that you have to behave consistently. And that's from publisher to brand to anyone out there who's has a message that they believe in. You can't do it once. You gotta keeping what's important. Like SNL is

leaning into satire. Obviously that's what they do UM. But I think there's never been a more important time for creators, for influencers UM to really corral or I guess artists UM and and own their voice. And it's not trying to play Kate too trends UM or you know what's in the news feed UM in terms of headlines, but it's truly understanding what role do we play in the conversation.

How do we add value versus adding another blaring sound. Yeah, I mean I think it's it's like you're no longer just a seat at the table, You're a voice in the conversation. I love that. Well anyway, I think today is going to be an awesome show. So excited to have Ben Cooley, CEO of Lenny Letter, and Jack Barwis, who's doing some sick interviews. I mean, the guy has interviewed everybody from just got off a hot piece with Bill Gates, and just super excited to have Jake editor

large at Mike. So we'll be right back. So we're really excited tonight to have to really relevant guests. Jake Horowitz, I will let you introduce yourself. Well, I'm happy to be here. Thank you. I'm the co founder and editor a large of Mike, which is the leading news site for the millennials. Yeah, we have Ben Cooley here, who is the CEO of Lenny Letter. Um, Ben, why didn't you tell everybody your backstory on Lenny and and why you're there? Really, you're really putting me on the spot.

My name is Ben Cooley. I am the CEO of Lenny A. I like to call it a feminist media conglomerate. Conglomerate. That's right, we'll have to talk about that more. That's what I'm here from. Are you conglomerating media generally? Well, thank you guys both so much for being here on Atlantia. I think we're super excited to talk to you. We

we truly feel that your platforms, UM are super important. Jake, you just had a fascinating interview with Bill Gates, and I thought some of his comments around, UM, you know, the role of media companies and really tech companies actually and what they play in fake news. Um. He doesn't have the solution, but he knows that they need to come up with one. Can you talk to us a little about you know, I think the industry face is

a big challenge. Um. We're living in a time that we've never seen and for the last two years, reporters have grappled with how to cover Trump. Um. You know.

The funny thing about the word fake news is it's being used on both sides of the aisle, right, So fake news is now being used by President Trump to label any story written by a journalist who he doesn't think captures him and that he doesn't agree with, just as much as it's being used, um by people on the other side of the aisle pointing out worries that

are just plain fake and not factual. So it's a sort of act they're actually fati written by in my opinion written by somebody in you know, Eastern Europe, flooding somebody's Facebook feed and swinging potentially in elections. So we

have a it's a very, very complicated time. But that being said, it's actually a very has never been a more important time to be a journalist, and so we feel very fortunate to be doing what we're doing because we need accurate information, we need truth, We need people who are hunting down the facts, and that's what we're

trying to do it. Mike the way I think Laura and I talk about both Mike and Lenny differently, but this is the similarity where we say the audiences that come to Mike the audiences that are reading Lenny, there are audiences that want to be a part of something that's bigger. They want to actually take action. Right, how do you guys embrace that or how do you even like stoke those planes? Yeah? Well we so we had

twenty five reporters going cover inauguration. Um it was a huge, huge moment for us, but the vast majority went to cover all the protests happening all over the city. You know, we try to represent our audience, which is eighteen to thirty five year olds who vast majority didn't vote for Donald Trump and are very disturbed by what's happening. And so we're trying to accurately depict, inform, and represent their world view, which means for us being on the front

lines of the activism happening across the country. You know, the Women's March was the biggest protests in US history and was planned you know, in less than two fake news not fake news, um, and young people all over the world. There wasn't a person on my Facebook fee who wasn't at the Women's March. So we're trying to be on the front lines and tell stories that really

capture where this generation is. And we're really excited to be part of, you know, our generation's response to what's happening. But what I think is is fascinating about is you're talking about being on the front lines and covering it where Ben, I think what's fascinating and Alexa and I

followed this very closely. Was Lenny and Lena and Jenny and jess Gross and alak Cars almost made them Brangelina, um, you know, editors for Lenny, we're on a bus going down and being a part of the protests and so while you're both covering the same things, it's interesting to see the different angles in the role Lenny played in that. Can you talk to us a little bit about, um, the importance of that and having you know, your editors on the front line from a different perspective as as females.

So and let me just this is a good sort of way for me to say, I'm the CEO, I am not an editor. Um, so like you know, I can better at that. I am better at that than I am sort of, but I'm going to try and

represent that. If Jenny or Lena or Jess or Liah could answer that question, they would say something like this that like, first of all, Lenny was created not as a business to you know, with a four year exit plan that you know we were gonna like you know, it wasn't like Jenny and Lena were like, how can we cash in on this amazing like like women's voice thing. Uh, it was. It was It's a mission driven company, you

know what I mean? And like and taking a point of view the way that say Fox News pioneered, like did ales have a real mission in terms of like how he wanted to change the world or did he see a market opportunity or you know, or both? And and is that a bad thing? Is that a good thing? You know? Um? But to answer your question, like, you know, yes,

like we are part of the story, you know. And and and Lenny's maybe a little different from Mike in the sense that we don't do what you do in sense of like true journalism, Like we're not quote unquote reporting the facts. We're much more of an editorial page. And we're giving women, uh you know again same sort

of demographic eighteen thirty five. Um, you know, whether they be actors, activists, educators, etcetera, like that platform to to to to speak their mind and speak to those subjects in a way that like you know, we felt, um was was was missing? Um, you know, I think it is a complicated time and these lines are very blurry. And um, I mean to go back to your initial question, this is testing your limits both as a journalist and as a human being. I mean, are you at these

rallies to report? But then you know, we had journalists who actually came to us and asked, you know, can they go part of the march as well? And and and ethically like they're ethically um, and you know, we are journalists, and so we want to make it clear that we're our job is to get to the truth. However, um, you know, we do a whole lot of things that Mike too. So we have people who report the news, We have calumnists and who give their opinion about the news.

We have had plenty of people who have come in to do direct to camera video op eds, celebrities, influencers, So we do a whole host of things too, and I think it is a it's a a blended, tricky time. One of the things that I think that Mike did maybe first it was right after the election and we're on the phone actually with Chris I'll check, just talking to him about Okay, what does this mean now, like

what do we do now? What advertisers and brands and media company, media company of the platform, and also like then separately as like concerned citizens, like what do we do now? And I think you guys were one of the first media outlets that actually started publishing phone numbers for Congress people. I thought that was like, yeah, let's get to the heart of it. You also explained how you get something done instead of just calling, show up.

R Yeah, I mean, and you know, so we published a video with Congressman Steve Israel, who was in Congress for sixteen years and he had retired, and we asked him, what's the playbook for making your life hell if you wanted to? And he referred back to the tea party. Right, well, yeah, he referred to the tea party. And he said, you know, in sixteen years, I've never once picked up the phone in my office. Don't call my office, come out with

five friends, show up. And it's interesting. And all of these things are happening from a media perspective in terms of how we cover, we report on it, we respond to it. But Alex and I have been scratching our head saying what role the brand's play in this, and how are you working with them and how are they

coming to you to address this very issue. Well, I would say, like brands have been representing a status quo since the beginning of time, right, Like they're not sort of like consciously political actors, but like they go with the flow. Let's just put it in that in those terms, and when you have a administration that is so far I'm not even going to say it's to the right because I think it's sort of like it has abandoned core values. For example, like you and you hear Barack

Obama on his way out talking about core values. And there's a reason why he does that, I think, which is to sort of to to say that, like there's all of us here in America that agree on like equality as a core value, and then there's this administration that its core value is winning. You know, it's it's

at any cost. So to bring it back to your question about like if you're a brand, like if you're a brand your job and like selling toothpaste kind of brand, or whether you're a brand selling uh, financial services, Like you want to be in that center. You want to be where the core values are. And this is a really interesting time where like the core values, like I

don't even think our partisan anymore. It's like when we're talking about like this is America, we're talking about like equality as a core value, and like, so if you can't stand up for equality, say the way that like Anheuser Bush did with that amazing immigrant ad, like in a world where that's suddenly anti Trump, like you're going to be fine. So I love that you're what you're saying, because it's not actually political, it's about having core values.

You're saying like we've gone so right and we're anti we should be anti right is right? Conversation? This is just a what are your values conversation? So have you felt that post election era that your values that Mike have been more galvanized and your values that Lenny have been more galvanized because of the outward like the external pressure situation. Definitely. First, well, look here's what I would say.

I mean on the brand's question. I think it's a complicated time for brands, just in the way it is for journalists. Um, you know, we did a survey of our audience post election, and what millennials want post election is to see that brands stand up and show their values for something on gender equality, on climate change, on

LGBTQ rights, on the core issues. It's tricky. We've seen examples in the last few weeks, whether it's Uber being singled out over the course of a day, uh, Starbucks committing to higher refugees and then getting a boycott Starbucks hashtag because uh, you know, these things were very polarized. It's very very tricky and a lot of these companies have employees who voted for Trump and have products, you know, and and factories and bases and states that voted for trum.

So it's it's not a one size fits all thing. But you know, what we are seeing is that if you want to stay relevant to millennials to the next generation, people are expecting now you to stand up as a brand. And we're hearing lots of people come to us and say we want to do CSR campaigns. We've realized that now this is a priority. This is JUSTSR campaign, uh, corporate social responsibility campaign. So this is not a thing

that just can be on the side anymore. This is something that has to be core to what we do, and that's what we've tried to do with brands. What's so interesting about what you just said, Jake, is that, um, when companies or brands start to rally around the political output of values, there's going to be backlash on one

side or the other. But when you focus strictly on the value instead of getting into the political context of what that value stands for, it seems to be where people can at least come to the middle and agree on which is not a simple thing. Right, So it's a difference between saying I embrace diversity verse I'm going

to hire X refugees. Yes, I agree with that, although what I would say is, as as you rightly point out, these things are very politicized now, so it's not everything is a value could be seen as a political thing. And I mean, you know, the the the irony of this period is every brand is worried about getting caught in Donald Trump's twitter feed. But on the flip side, getting caught in his twitter feed actually throws your ratings through the roof and people have sign up for your newsletter,

and so it's it's a very tricky thing. Um. And again, like I said, you know, there's no one answer to how to deal with it as a company. I think I think, like you know, we've seen like Nordstrom stock drop for a few minutes and then like shoot straight back up, and that that sends a signal which is like it's gonna be okay, Like they're gonna be a couple of hashtags again. Like whereas like Uber like got the message fast and like I think did the right thing,

Nordstrom didn't even do anything right. Well, that okay, That's where I wanted to I wanted to actually drill down into that, like you don't even have to do anything to now become part of the Maelstrom. Right, So everything is politicized everything and nothing's off limits. How do you how do you act in in a world as a brand like that? Right where you're in and you're out, you're this or your creator or a creator. You stick with core values. That's what they're there for, and so

you know they're always there. Sorry, they're always there. And like when when there's lots of smoke and fire and people are like freaking out, you're like, remember we wrote our court values down like in the front door when you walk in. Can someone go like remind me what they are? Oh, it's equality. Okay, let's go do the quality thing. That's what they're there for. So that like when you get lost, you're like, that's my core. So just return to those, you know what I'd say, also

as you can't ignore it. You know these conversations I've been in certain circles, whether it's in international political circles or amongst some folks who try to pretend like this isn't what's on everybody's mind. In the room, every employee is thinking about activism, action, politics, he's buying from a company is thinking about it. So, you know, I think if if there was a time too, there is this notion that oh, we can just hide under the rug and let it pass and just sort of it'll sweep

over us. And I think that's wrong. So I think we're just in a completely different era. I think we have now ticked into I don't like where we've gone. We're not going back right, Like I I firmly believe that I want to add something of that too. So it's like, I think the point about it being like being part of the conversation, Like I think that is really all that people want is that you're like recognizing

it and talking about it. They're less concerned about like you're taking a stand or like what side are you on. It's like, how about we just have the conversation and see where and that might help us just move forward. Yeah, I also wonder like, so I was reading something the

other day. I can't remember where it was, but it was saying that now corporate America has gotten into the place where they're all going to be doing something that has a point of view, right, that they're going to stand for something, that they're going to let their core values be known, and then you know everyone does it

and it means nothing to anyone. Right, So now you have the up, you have another problem coming up, and I think, you know, I would love to know from like a more of a media perspective, how do you make sure that it's not just a flash in the pan type of thing that you get reflected they the public reflects upon you and says, you know what, that's

not really who you are. Well. I recently interviewed Hamdi Lukaya, who's the CEO of Jabani, who has been one of the most remarkable in the last few years, outspoken on refugees, a whole host of issues, and what he told me is, you know, if you, as a CEO, would be laughed at by your own employees if you said here's what our brand stands for, then you're probably not doing it authentically. So I think it comes back to values. It comes back to you know, what are the core values that

you as a company or championing. You know, these things can't come out of left field, so right, I think that's like, how do you keep how do you keep that drum before you before you even buy an ad in like Mike or Lenny to like to like change the quote unquote change the world. You should have that internal conversation first with and again it's not like this is what we stand for on on you know, we're

against Trump. No one's asking you to do that. It's just like, you know, what is it that you stand for in terms of a company, and like what are your values? And then once you've established had that conversation, then you can come to like credibly, come to a Mike and a Lenny and say this is what we stand for, and then Mike and Lenny will be like, oh,

that's interesting. So do we like now that How do we reflect that, you know, through what we do, because like, our audiences keep coming back to us because they know who we are, and we consistently represent this voice. I think that's the point. Consistently represent So like when we're not like and we're happy to like take your money and like and like and like, but I mean again to the business part of this and to like and to like lend ourselves and and and our reputation to yours.

But it only really works and makes sense when you've already done it yourself, so that that's a shared value, that there should be a jar in the middle where the word value like like like every every creative conversation that we have with brands is you know, a million times more productive when they come and effective when they come to the table saying like this is what, this

is who we are. And I love Ben where you were going just in terms of authenticity and this is something Alex and I are hypersensitive about, which is contextual relevancy and not having a seat at the table but being a part of the conversation. UM, And I think what I'd love to get your thoughts on our UM, how has a new cycle changed perhaps or shaped the way you're creating con hent Um. Are you leaning into longer, firm, shorter form inasmuch as you're leaning into different topics. Yeah, well,

we're always playing around with different formats. I mean, we try to be very platform focused and new platform first, so trying to understand and move to new platforms quickly.

UM short form video has been a huge, huge piece of what we've done in the last year and a half two years, UM seen tremendous growth there, reaching a hundred million people every month, UM, as a result of those two minute videos that live on Facebook and Instagram and increasingly increasingly now we're thinking about long form video, So building shows that live on streaming platforms, going to the Hulus and Amazons and Netflix, you know, the place

where millennials watch TV, and building shows that reflect you know, this generation's demand for commentary analysis. How are you deciding

that content though? Is it stuff that you're picking up from headlines in the news cycle or is it going deeper on the investigative side and thinking about It'll be a little of both, but I mean, we'll we'll have shows that are evergreen and based on our core topic extent, will build them out as sort of serialized mini docs and things that we know we have a core audience built around. UM. And then we'll also try to reinvent some of the nightly news shows because I think we

need that at this time. Jake, what are you obsessing over right now outside of your journalistic responsibilities, UM, both of somebody in the media space, UM, but also as you know, probably a consumer of the same disculd be content discus. Well, you know, look, I think I'm obsessing about the things a lot of people in this country are obsessing about, which is, how do go going back to what we started with, how do we get to

the truth? What can media companies do to uh stand up in this moment and really you know, report the truth. I think that's a really really important question. I'm also obsessing with, um what entrepreneurs and what everyday people and our generation is going to do to respond to this moment. I mean, one of the most amazing things that we've seen is that, for the first time ever, millennials are like clamoring to run for office at this moment. Are

you guys helping them? Well, we're obsessed with that. We're helping to you know, publish some of these campaigns and you know, publishing op eds on our side. But we've seen millennials clamoring to run for office. People want to get activated, they want to do something they don't know quite what to do. Some people are going to go protests, some people are going to donate, some people are going to run for office. What's your favorite like grassroots UM

movement movement that's like spur action or action. Well, there's been some really amazing, I mean amazing people who are doing amazing things. Um, you know, I'm sure a lot of listeners have heard of the Indivisible Guide, which has been one of the big ones circulating where like even my mom now who's emailed at this Westchester m is going to town hall meetings and thinking about how to get activated and how do people access that. People can

can access that, um that indivisible guy dot com. I mean, it's a website. You can download it. You can start a town hall meeting in your community as a playbook for how to sort of come together. A friend of mine was telling me that in Westchester she went to one in seven people showed up totally. They didn't think they were going to get ten totally. But I would

look like I would. I would love to see and for listeners, I would love to see people use this moment to inspire creativity that we have never can go anytime. There's always you know, in tech, there's always been this sense of like, oh, well, you know politics is over there and Washington's over there, We're going to do our own. Think there's never been a more important time for people in tech. And you don't have to get political, but just think about the moment that we're think about solutions.

Get creative. I mean, that's what I would love to see. I think the real challenge for Lenny And I don't know if you feel the same way. Maybe you guys probably do a better job of this because you're a bigger organization, UM and have more resources. But I think that like the sort of media elite problem that we have in the sort of in the coastal issues was a big problem for Lenny, and that like and something that we without very much work, could probably uh do

lot to to rectify. And I think my hope is over the next few years, we're going to two cities and states um that we wouldn't otherwise go to and like identify pockets of resistance. UM. Can I say something that I'll blow everyone's mind, but that's a guarantee. Can make sure you mark this. Are you ready? This is news? Um. So after the election, we did a study of rural millennials, UM, and we looked at what they're reading, what they're sharing,

how to talk to them, how to reach them. And we found a fascinating insight which is in Wisconsin, on the day that the Trump sex tape came out, there was an uptick in searches for what does misogyny mean? And what is a massage? Confusing the word massage and misogyny, And here is what I think was one of the

biggest issues with the Democratic side finishing well. So my thought is, I think if we do a better job storytelling, doing our jobs showing why things matter, you know, we we've fallen the trap too of you know, using big words and you know, sort of call out culture versus call in culture and being inclusive in our storytelling. So I think that's one piece of it. But I also think, I mean, here's another insight for you breaking news UM that that after the election, UM offline has had more

of a resurgence than ever. So Starbucks has had some of its most foot traffic days in history the few days after the election. People are craving interact, connections, interaction, and so we're also thinking about offline events and what talk about to reach people so that we get out of our digital filter bubble and actually have real conversations

with these folks. Do you know Faith Popcorn. She's a futurist, and she's like a famous futurist, and she was talking about that that now kind of with all of these confluence of things, right, it's the it's the post Brexit Trump, all of these kind of things coming together with technology on the rise, that we're going to see actually totally new patterns in sexual behavior because people are craving that we're actually at our lowest kind of sexual activity that

we've been in history. Which I had more, I had, no, I had no, I didn't and I'm not having a number two for a while. But you have to have sex in order to have one to know the right past tense um. So sorry, honey, um, but but no. But the point is, and I think that's really true, is that like now we're going to be looking for new ways of interacting not only with each other to connect, but also now we've got technology that's connecting with us. Where does that play a role in the mix. It's

really I agree, it's human interact. We're talking about like basically events, right, like tours, amends that kind of thing, And like I was talking about sex, you're talking about events. I'm tiking about very but like social media, all that kind of stuff has made us lazy, and we keep going. We we we we're looking for ways of like leveraging Facebook in order to reach the most people, and because

you know, we have limited time and limited money. But you know what it takes to like get out into the world and actually like get people to come together and do a thing is very taxing. It takes a lot of work. And we've it's not that we've lost we don't have the work ethic, it's just that like when you live in a just to bring it back to media and like what counts if you're going after massive clicks, if that's what's paying the bills, right, and your advertiser is like I want to reach as many

people as possible, you know what I mean? Like then like the kind of content that you're going to create is like is going to be built around those sorts of like what kind of creating them? And then and then but if you want to create these events, you're you're only reaching like a thousand people. That's a lot of or or or a hundred people. And is the mass that we talked and just what it costs a lot more to do that than like than buy a face. What's the but what's the return? And that's where you

get into a quality, actionable impact loyalty thing. I think we've unlocked a lot a lot today and I think we want to look like he's going to fall leave. But I don't know. I've unlock so much you can't take any I think what we love is to kind of have both of you, um leave our listeners. What will call the last tweet of the night? What do you mean? Or is it just for the afternoon? Yeah? What's the last word from Ben Cooley? Tweet? Or otherwise?

In Atlantia love one another? I like that? Okay, Jake, how many characters do we go? Yeah? You can? You know? And Jake, we'll do a hundred. Well, no, I'm I'm I'm very very enthused about the amount of creative energy that we're seeing. Um. And my message to listeners would be to channel it and that this is a we're living through the most unprecedented moment in history, So brands,

individuals channel it. Can Can people call you guys and say, hey, have this brilliant idea for Lenny, Hey have this brilliant idea for Mike? Oh definitely. How do they get in touch with you? Well, you can tweet at at me, email me, um, call me, uh my cell phone number and email are on my Twitter account, so pretty pretty easy to get ahold of your cell phone is on your Twitter That maybe not my cell phone? What's your Twitter handle? Jacob D. Horrowitz Nice? Then you can email

me Bennett Lenny letter dot com. All right, I love it, guys. Thank awesome conversation and we totally totally appreciate what you're doing Summers and as the co host of the show, what you're doing to move the movement forward. So thank you, thank you, thank you. So that was our first show. What's our first show? And we didn't do this alone. There are so many people think, so many people think, and not the least or the last are the people

at Hannibally and Slate who believed in us. So a few core shoutouts Jacob Weisberg, Andy Bowers, Laura Mayor, Matt Turk, Cameron Drew's, Cameron Drew's our producer. Um, yeah, and just all of our friends and family who stood by this, and industry colleagues. I mean, I personally love to thank our significant others and I've been listening to this ship for a really long time and are probably glad we're out of our houses and in the studio doing it.

So thank you Sandy, thank you Mike, and I mean my mom, my dad, my brother, just like the oscars. Wrap it up all right. So you can find at Landia pretty much anywhere Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, at and Landia podcast and also be sure to obviously subscribe to at Landia podcast on iTunes and everywhere else you can get podcasts, obviously obviously, so welcome to Atlandia. We'll be back every other Tuesday. We're excited to have you and be a

part of the conversation. Full disc closure. Our opinions are our own.