The Changing Face(s) of Cannes

We are back and having a very candid can discussion with a number of people who were out in the

South of France. First up, we're going to have three delegates who are part of HPS More Like Me Initiative UM who we're going to talk about diversity in the industry and what their experience was like going through a program that highlighted the work, that highlighted important conversations around diversity, and just overall what their thoughts and experiences were as as first time young people who got the experience of

a lifetime. And then second up, we have a one of our faves and consultant of all consultants, Lindsay Slaby from Sunday Dinner coming in talking about this really just amazingly clearheaded article that she wrote about has the you know, agency model been kind of sitting under our noses the whole time. So we're excited to have lindsay on and get her thoughts and her take on kind of the B side of CAN that I think we're hoping is going to turn into the A side of CAN. Moving

forward with that, We'll be right back. Hi, guys, we're back, and we've got three young guns and representing the coolest peeps and the peeps you should know at CAN. Welcome to the studio. David Jacobson, Hi, Joshua Noah, who is calling in all the way from CALIFORNI thanks for getting up early, of course, good morning. And Janina Lagaman done some spice at the end. I like it. So, you guys were a part of the HP More Like Me

program at CAN tell us about it. UM. So the program is an initiative by HP to challenge their AO or agencies to focus on diversity UM that includes UM, gender,

ethnic UM, just diversity overall. UM. I think there's some pretty staggering stacks of like the way that you know, we sort of like to call it sort of cancer white UM and getting more folks not only to CAN but providing mentorship throughout the year UM in terms of how we as diverse people, people of color UM relate, can integrate UM and move through the space of advertising. And so Josh, tell us a little bit about the

people that you met. What were the skill sets of sort of your more like me cohort um and what was sort of some of the itinerary that you went through. Yeah, so it ran the gamut. It was. It was actually like just a collective of some of the brightest people that I've ever had the chance of working with UM.

But you get copywriters, you get designers, you have strategies, you have account personnelity, So it was it was truly just it ran the gamut and everyone with such a diverse and distinct background, not only like ethnically and with their lineage, but also within the industry and so that was that was really cool. So one of the things that made the program very powerful was exactly the way that they did programming. So they focused on a lot

of like front end and back end programming. So we would go to a panel, but at the same time, we also had an opportunity to go to the judging rooms behind the scenes and be able to see the

process of how people win a CAN Lion. UM. We got very close to the work UM and we're able to not only meet with people that were you know, let's say, like a creative director from b BDEO, but at the same time like the program coordinator for CAN, who was like telling us the rules and how the program would work, UM and their efforts to make the program more international and have a higher reach overall. One of my favorite things was a speed mentoring round that

UM CAN Lines and HP set up for us. UM. It happened at the Girls Lounge. We got to meet three different mentors from UM all over the place really and got to talk about what we envisioned for our careers, what we're struggling with UM, just kind of what we're what we're thinking about, and what we want to prioritize

in our careers. And I think that for diverse talent, those questions manifest themselves in very particular ways, so to be able to bring them up in that setting UM with kind of full trust, confidence in support was a super important part of the program. More there are things that surprised you. Obviously you were all first time delegates, So to speak to UM, what is the biggest creative

festival UM in the world. I would like to see like a lot more initiatives to sort of bring younger groups in as far as like an education in a similar sense that we were brought UM we were brought in and just more so like what we can learn and sort of bring back. I don't think necessarily it's sort of like movers and shakers of the industry, but

definitely as as as a spot of education. Really, I think it's all about recognizing that there is always another seat at the table, and that doesn't involve kicking someone off the table or knocking someone off the podium. It's just about inviting more people onto the stage, different people onto the stage, people who otherwise wouldn't have an opportunity

to step onto the stage. So it just really made me realize that this paradigm of the like mad men UM should absolutely be replaced by like really truly mad women and really truly like maddened people of color that UM are now beginning to channel their frustration into something that UM can manifest itself. In progress and optimism um, and that can permeate, you know, not only the diverse community, it can which is very little, but beyond that, and

that's just extremely important. There is a business objective on the other side of this, which is that more diverse work is going to result in better work with a very changing population. So if we're going to talk to an audience, we have to start talking to an audience that is reflected back from the work. So Josh, where do you guys go from here? Where does HP go from here? What do they do with all of this? Like they've rallied a community with you guys, They've made

a statement in the stand now what right? So yeah, the attending can was just the beginning. It's sort of just inside the fire. But we are still very much a cohort are a group. Chat is very much alive and well. But beyond that, we're going to be sort of holding these events with the agencies throughout the year and really bringing the messaging and all the information that we sort of brought in from canon and spreading that out not only to our agencies but very hopefully beyond

that as well. I actually think that in one of Antonio Lucio's panels UM. He had Tandy Newton of Westworld and Ted Talk Fame UM attend and she said something that really stuck with me, And this is a pretty direct quote, that we can be in a position where we can use our craft to break down the walls

of ignorance. And I've taken that little Colonel UM and kind of challenged myself with it to understand how now that I'm back home, now that I'm kind of severed from that powerhouse of eighteen champions of diversity, how I can begin to see my everyday work as something that is done UM in an effort to support this higher

order ambition of diversity. Have taken a step back. For second, that UM, I think one of the best talking about the work UM experiences and can UM was the fact that I think it's very easy to get some coal better industry. And quite honestly, this was like the muscles of creativity UM. To be sitting during these awards shows and just see great idea after great idea is very refreshing and I think gives us a lot of life as advertisers. There were two particular things that that UM

really touched me. I would say. One of them was a great project put forth by B. B Do called to Prescribe to Death UM. And it was a traveling memorial wall where every I think it was every three

minutes a victim of opiate overdose. Their face was three D printed onto a pill and sort of displayed as these large scale mosaics, which I think is a great stunning way of of and and and stunning in a sort of like negative context of going uh and through an experiential point of view, how how deep this this

epidemic resonates in culture. UM. And another one through a similar vein was with Sacchi UM and they was a campaign called law Syndrome where they um, we're basically raising awareness on UM Americans with Down syndrome who have to pick between having a career or you know, going on disability and Medicaid UM. And they did this pop up restaurant in d C where the entire weight staff and everybody on staff was UM had Down syndrome. And then they invited lawmakers to this restaurant and then at the

end they were presented with the bill to sign that bill. UM. Super powerful work UM that and this is the sort of stuff that our industry at the level of internationalism of can that's the type of work we should be concentrating on. Work that's getting into public sector, that's getting into legislation, that's getting right. I mean at the end of the day that the work that you're saying was the most resonant work. Absolutely, it's work that's actually getting

into our lives. And I mean from a more like from a higher sort of like caliber standpoint for the industry over all. Like I think, definitely we're moving more and more away from film. I mean the things that we're winning outside of the pro bono work where things like KFCs, like eleven Spices like people are focusing more on brand experiences, on very nimble social um and those are the things that are resonating with consumers, not like

traditional powerhouse film. All the work that goes on the walls that can, all the work that wins lions is a commentary on what our industry is does and believes in and in what direction it is moving. And it goes back to Antonio Lucio's whole intent for HP is more like me, which is to change the totality, as he says, of the industry internally on the client side and the agencies that are developing the ideas and in the production houses that are bringing those ideas to life,

um in the event that it's film. UM. So it really is about like looking at every single piece of a brand, of a campaign, of a brand message and belief and making sure that every single person who touches that brand and champions that belief actually subscribes to it. Absolutely. I think it was Edelman who published that about consumers will boycott a brand that doesn't share their social or

sort of political beliefs. So I think it's now I was more it's more important than ever to really make sure that our brands are being transparent and progressive as as their consumers. So, guys, we play this little game at the end of our show called kill by d I y Okay. I would kill the impostor syndrome. What would you buy? I would buy Joshua Kisses Tonal it's stock photography that has diverse representation. And what would you

do yourself? I would revive print. Um, I won't give away my secret print advertising print or print as a medium medium. So like print media broadly speaking beyond advertising, but including advertising, I would revive print. Okay, Josh, what would you kill kill? I think, especially coming off of the heels of this conversation, would be go ahead, sorry, Josh, more of those bye bye bye bye. I'm actually I'd

kill um having to explain the case for diversity. I think that was something that sort of um really struck out to me, was the idea that we're still having to explain why it's important and why it's effective. Um. And I mean, I'll still do it like till the ends of the earth, until until we sort of get to the place where we need to be. But I feel like, at this point, come on, guys, we know we know why it's effective, we know it's a good thing, and we know it's reflective. What would you buy? I

was actually gonna say more rose. Funny enough, I was like, wow, I am sort of in a severe lack of rose coming off of that weekend. So I'm stalking up on some bottles and what would you do yourself? Magnum exactly? Um, what would I do myself? I would go back to can actually I would um, even like, I think obviously there is an opportunity that was afforded to me through the generous and and sort of really progressive mindset of

the people at HP. But Um, I would do it all over again, even if it was on my own dollar. I think it was a phenomenal experience that I would love to do again. Awesome, Okay, David, you're up, it's my turn. Um. I would kill the doct yacht. That was something that was very surprising for me at at at candidate. We were actually never on a yacht that wasn't on a dock like whose Like I kind of wanted to go in the middle of the French riviera. I wanted the yacht to move. And it was just like,

I just don't understand it. I was just like, so for everyone it can like we need more like cruising parties, I suppose just because of probably um, but yeah, just like moved the yacht, moved that yacht. Um, that's my that's my two cents for can Um I would buy. Um, I'm gonna have to go with Rose because it was like I typically not a Rose drinker, so I'm gonna go with Josh on that one. And it was just like I think I got a good mentoring of Rose. Um it can and what would I um do myself,

I want to judge some stuff and can. That's what

I would do myself. Like a lot we went into the judging room and we definitely seen and I think it makes sense that like very very like high level like creatives are the people who are doing this, but in terms of remaining like culturally relevant, like I know that a lot of people like for example, when I was in college, I was on the g LBT like president commission, and they had like you know, like heads of departments and everything, but they always had like a

student ambassador to sort of like level set the committee. So thinking if there's like young lions that are going into the judging room with some of the folks, could just help sort of like level chet like what is actually culturally relevant or not. So yeah, that's what I would do myself. I would I would judge CAN. I love that? Well, thank you guys for coming by. Thank you a lot of fun. We will see you back in the French riviera hopefully, Josh go to sleep. I'm up.

I'm up. Thank you everyone, Thank you, thank you. So as we continue our candid can discussion say that ten times fast? Um, we have a guest who visit us on, as she likes to tell everybody. The second episode of Atlanta, Linda Slaby, the founder of Sunday Dinner, is back in the studio. What's up? Lindsay high Lands on the heels

like truly on the heels of Can. Lindsay wrote inc one of the most clearheaded posts, pieces, articles, whatever you want to call it, about the agency model, and you have been amazingly vocal in the industry and build your business. Frankly on there's a different way, right, different way for agencies to think about themselves, a different way for brands and clients to staff their talent. Right, So can you talk a little bit about the article, what you saw

and what you're talking about in your piece? Sure? I think yes, I wrote it immediately. You can go to can on several different tracks, right, Like it's all about planning the way you're going to show up. So you can go on party and be on yachts a minute to forget about everything that's going on around you and turn a blind eye. You can go to pal A and sit and listen and be inspired. That's a great track.

I did that a few years ago. You can set up meetings with media Link and it's NonStop and you're just kind of having pitch mode, or you can just kind of like go observe, see people you haven't seen in a while, catch up, and try to take a minute to be like, what's really going on in this industry? And that's the path I took, and I think a lot of people that I sort of tried to highlight in that article, and it really was a different side

of what's happening in our industry. On the one side where I think a lot of the yacht voting was happening was a lot of holding company agencies slightly that conversation tone around doom and gloom, which frankly like I don't really feel and I don't necessarily want to be a part of it. And I think there is this new group of people. Important thing to note, based on what you guys just talked about two is that doesn't

mean younger. It just means there's the next generation of people thinking about marketing and brand building and advertising in a new way. And it's full of optimism, and it's full of getting stuff done, and it's full of saying like, the problem isn't the solution for the problem isn't just going to one re source. There's a million different ways that we as people get things done in our lives

through different programs, technologies. Why isn't this the way that we're approaching solving some of the world's most complex brand and business challenges. And that's about thinking about it in a different way. And there's a lot of people doing it. And they were at can and they were having great conversations, and I felt super inspired by that and felt like it's not being talked about enough and in a lot of ways because those people doing that are humble and

that's amazing. But we need to talk about it because our industry needs to feel it, and we need to bring people in and feel optimistic about what working in this industry can really be. You talked about two things in the article in and this is the thing that I wanted to call elect on an ungodly hour was the people that are on the sideline is where the actual real conversations are happening, which is what this show

was built on. Yes, And like, when you galvanize that and you understand the power of what's happening around the water cooler, you start to realize collaboration over competition, and that doesn't mean get your ass kicked on your bottom line. What it means is learn how to partner with people in a unique way that's going to add value one plus one equals three to the larger add industry. Sunday Dinner is all about curating the right people at the

table physically, metaphorically, and I think that right. It's about curating the right people at the table for your brand, carrying the right people at the table for for partnerships as you as a as a as a consultant. There is a power in knowing who and asking the question of who is who should be at this table? Who can actually UM not answer the question the way I would answer the question. I think that is the right. It's it's really who's going to bring it that different perspective,

but also understand the kind of greater goal. What you guys are talking about is like a totally change, a huge change in the ethos of this industry and the way mentorship right has been thought of, the way coaching is thought of, the way UM competitors are thought of right, even competitive agencies, but even competitive brands. And I think issues in this huge thing that we've been talking about for so long, which is hybridizing. I p right, and that can happen with people and things you just set

alexa about mentorship, coaching, et cetera. This is an industry that does everything linearly, so coaching from the top down means it needs to be somebody from the last generation mentoring the next naration. What what Lindsay and I saw and what we were messaging you about at Can was pure to pure mentorship. It was pure to peer mentorship. And it's from different disciplines, different skill sets, different industries to say, I'm seeing this thing over here, maybe this

can help you over there. And the thing that and I will will say what we witnessed on the silence was there was no pay to place, so authenticity has to shine through shine the only thing, it's the thing. And then but one of the things that that was exciting about, you know, sitting at a dinner table ten times over at Can with this group of people, nobody was on their phone. The conversation didn't stop. There was so much I can't if I could bottle that energy

and sell it on Atlantia dot com. And there's like there's tension in the discussion too, which is really important. So everyone always talks about, yeah, you can, you can collaborate. You can bring a lot of people around the table. They're diverse, and but as you were just talking about Alexa, when we all sit and have ideas and we're trying to crack something together, you have to have that like chemistry with the right people. You have to have tension.

You have to push on each other's ideas, and that means you've got to figure out you respect to the people at that table and you trust them, and there's this camaraderie and friendship that's really important to get two great ideas and it's making the model work right. I also think one thing really important with as we're just going to kind of talk about this table that we had of everyone, all the work that we put on a pestle, and I think agencies and brands put on

a pedestal came from people at that table. It's Jet Blue and Infatuation doing something that's amazing. It's uh, you know, just going back to it, it's Jen from Aways pop up in Paris that she did as a hotel that had a ton of amazing brand partners and served for a need. Those are the types of things everybody wants to figure out how to create because your brand is

your experience, right, and it's your product. And I think it's really important to understand that these companies have actually built products right, so they understand the life cycle of what it takes to come up with the marketing but also what it takes to implement and deliver and customer service and brand experience. Bringing that type of mindset to the table to help crack a brief for you or think about a marketing solution is magic because they really

understand listening, data, customers, etcetera. Things that to be frank, I think a lot of people on the agency side are craving to have the craving to have access to that,

but it's not the role of an agency today. So they're leaving and they're working for DTC brands, they're working inside brands because they crave knowing, like what really happens when you connect the dots between what I'm doing upper funnel all the way through and that education and that role of agencies just hasn't been there, and so we're all looking for different things to fulfill us as creatives or people who came from agencies as well as who we bring in I think to help us crack briefs.

I also think so when you guys were talking, one of the things that Laura and I have been really focused on is we want to bring together like minded people. So how do you work with people and team with people and talk to people and get that good out of them? Um, instead of spending time trying to figure out how to avoid a competitor, how to be the best among the pack, that's not what this is about, right.

I think it's important to say, Okay, so we you know this article and what we're talking about is bringing amazing people together to think about ideas. So how do you operationalize that? It's important to think about right. So, if you are a lead agency working on business for a client, and you keeping that relationship and you want to do this, find you know, open up the door, open up slush funds, work on your contract, find ways to bring in the right people early on so you

can have inspiration sessions. Think tanks, look outside of your holding company, look too different partners, look to brands, look to some of the people on that list, bring them in and have them participate with you and make sure that that's a part of how your scope is working. Or if you're looking to crack a challenge or your brand that's just ready to pivot and you need bright minds around the table, then potentially it's not about going

to one place and hiring. Potentially is about getting sort of this think tank like model to work for you in a new way. Get off site, you know, spend a little money to put the brightest minds on your business, and amazing things will come from it. And I think the crux is always who's orchestrating that. So obviously, yes, like that's what we do, but that's what a lot

of people do. And you need to have that person that can get trust from those teams because putting together these piecemeal teams it's hard because it's a lot of great minds, a lot of type A people, a lot of smart thinkers. But you need someone who can figure out how to really, like from a hospitality standpoint, almost like lead that conversation and bring the people together and extract the right things from them. I love you saying hospitality.

I know it's like hospitality of of ideas, hospitality for talent. I mean, fuck, is that the new hr like that's I mean, that's such an amazing way of saying it. As you're saying that, it was thinking how the chief operation officer can really afford a counterpart and a chief orchestration officer. Yeah, I'm different that for a while. And

I think chief orchestration. I mean you think of large companies we all work with, they have so many silos and sometimes as the consultant, like you know more about what's happening and connecting the dots than people who actually work there. Making sure, you know, work now needs to be so much more connected, less siloed, more you know, enterprise focused, and you need people walking around the company as secret opts, whether they are you know, right like

putting the pieces together. That is important. Two of the things that um I think in these leaders that you see is very prominent in terms of attributes. One is that they believe in the brand. I'm not just talking about people on the brand side. I'm talking about people on the agency side. I'm talking about people on the consulting side. They are genuinely passionate about the work that they're doing. This is not a job. There's no distinction

between work and play. This is this isn't fully integrated belief system, right. And then the other side is they're a practitioner. They're doers in and as much as they are leaders. So there's a reason they can get ingrain, have conversations and you know, be able to talk to others at the table and field ideas is because they're not sitting at the top and delegating and taking talking

points and briefing the they're living and breathing. The thing I think they just defined leadership like that is next gen leadership and that could be at any age and has any look and any face and anything. But it's about the people who are not just uh consense who can get it done. They're the ones who are actually in it doing it as well and leading. Why have we made management actually part and get detached from the work, which is the biggest problem, And you see it, you

see it. Actually there's so many leaders who say I used to love when I did the work especially and why well, why are you doing the fucking work anymore? While now I have to manage Peter principal right, totally principle. My mom always tells me that I think Laura like it's I get called out a lot sometimes where people look at me like, are you working for that company? Out? Because I say so every time I'm talking about a client, I'm working with it. I talked to you, I say

weak because I'm a part of it. Like, so, what was the reaction? I mean, there were tons of comments that were pouring in some of your screenshotting last night, saying this isn't a new novel concept. For whatever reason, this industry just forgot. This isn't about reimagining, it's about remembering that that was really really good. Yeah, I mean it actually took me back to I've been running this coming for five years. This is where I started. When

you get embedded in companies, your role shifts. I'm a fixer right in my life as well as at work, so I'm constantly moving in different directions. And for me, it was an AHA moment to see all this and be like, oh, I'm gonna go back to it like in the fall, this is what we're doing. Let's operationalize this, let's get moving with this model more and kind of continue to prove it out. Um, it's the optimism story.

It's just the press is constantly talking about doom and gloom and what's going with money and everyone's fleeing the industry, and it's like, Okay, great, what are who's fixing it? What are we doing about it? And I think that that was really the rallying cry that a lot of people responded to and wanted to feel that energy like

we're proud, Like we're all work on creative ideas. You know, that's a precious thing to get to create, and we're proud of the work that we do, and CAN was about celebrating it, right, which I I feel like that I go to CAN right. I'm not anti awards, I'm not anti big agencies or anything like that, Like, I feel like we all should celebrate the work. But the work is changing and there's there needs to be acknowledgement I think for what that is and how we're all

working together in a positive, optimistic way. It's amazing to see how words like creative media and context and culture and collaboration over competition have shown up tenfold in my Twitter feeds since CAN and if that is the one thing I know, collectively, sitting at this table um we leave as an impression in the industry. I think our work is done, but luckily, I know we'll be back in two weeks. So Silens, what would you what would you buy? What would you do yourself? We're going to

make you run through the game again. Kill. I would kill the current conference format. I've ended a lot of conferences. Come on, people just talking on stage. I want to network, I want to collaborate. I want to do what we did it can I want that to happen because that's meaningful. You couldn't pay to get into the table that Giant Spoon and Vice put together, and that was the conference. To me, that was the magic, right, Okay, So I kill that. Laura's really excited. Buy I have two things

I would buy? Is that? Okay? Okay? I would buy dirty lemon. I'm obsessed with a talk about it. What is dirty lemon? It's a really expensive, special kind of water that's infused with things like rose and collagen and energy. But what's magic about it is the way that you buy it, the text messaging platform that they have created. So it's the format in which you buy the product.

And they recently just acquired Dexter from Beta Works, which also is like Poncho if you guys, right, So they bought that and I think that's again product realizing how consumers want to purchase from them, and a lot of brands are trying to figure that out. And I would buy Dirty Lemon. I would also buy Dojo Mojo. People

probably don't know that. Yes, it's a way for brands to all log in basically to a lot of director consumer brands and publishers just strike up partnerships by talking to each other and building audience together to do campaigns and email development, lists and social platforms together. It's all self service for brand partnerships. The guys from Wine Awesomeness actually founded it. Who is a millennial wine company who realized the power in email marketing and building lists and

and and partnerships as a new way of marketing. It's awesome. What's the next one yourself? Well, I would make the everything we're talking about right now happen more and more and more. And I'm I have been working on that, but I think that we need more of it. I'm going to put my mind to it more for the rest of the year as well. The Slavy thank you,

thanks for dropping by. Thanks all right, big thanks to our producer thing at killing it in the studio today, Matt Turk, Andy Bowers, Jacob Weisberg, all of our friends and family, a panoply and Atlantia I seem to enjoyed this one of the rous m H. Full Disclosure. Our opinions are our own