Summer Rewind

a lot of reflection. We've had so much fun with the last seven eight months of bad Land. Yeah, amazing conversations with people who are listening, Amazing conversations with people in the industry. And Laura and I wanted to bring back some of our lost stiles because we think some of these conversations that you haven't heard yet are actually really still relevant. So we're gonna take a look back

to really look ahead and the like that. We were talking on the phone earlier this morning about all the really interesting things that are happening in the streaming environment, but really around um some original production that we're hearing over at Facebook with their new watch platform. So, I

mean everybody's been talking about it. We've been talking about this for years, but it just seems like, you know, everything's heating up in terms of original content, whether it's in gaming, original content on platforms like Facebook, and original content media companies that are really building their revenue model around audiences and really focusing in on audiences and building

content to really super serve those audiences. So one of the things that's getting interesting Alectual're talking about things heating up in the original space is this idea that it seems that the democratization of networks and platforms is really enabling some interesting programming that you don't necessarily have to go to Hollywood define even though Apple just dropped what was it, like a billion book, UM basically seeking out creators,

and I think Facebook has an interesting approach. I know, we were just talking about how we're excited to see Humans of New York become an actual series that we're gonna be able to watch. Yeah, I actually tried this week and I emailed UM, the founder of Humans of New York, and asked them if I could contribute to one of the families that was in UM their inaugural

first episode, UH, because it was just really powerful. What I think is really interesting and I've been If anyone out there has been having conversations with me off of Adlandia, they know I've been obsessed with the A six ten V podcast. It came out I think in July. I was talking about addiction versus UM popularity and the age of morality. If you haven't listened to that episode, it's amazing.

One of the things that they talk about is because of everything that's happening in the streaming space, in the programming space, in the original content space, should we be thinking that it's the end of endings? And I think that that is the main thing. So if you think about Humans of New York as a platform, UM, like a creative platform, you know, it was generally these amazing you know, images and texts, but it was still static and now they're moving into video and it's really the

end of those endings, if you will. So you're gonna see more extensions UM, more ways for people to tell stories, but still on the same type of kind of creative platform. And just by extending the creative platform into new formats really is building the franchise out on a totally different level. And I think, Laura, that's what you're talking about is like there's a there's a real excitement right in this investment in original content but also taking creative platforms that

really work and putting them into new and different places. UM. Whether that's Facebook Watch, UM, whether that's gonna be Apple and some of their originals, or whether it's even people who have kind of legacy programming but are now going

to transis and that into new media forms. That's exciting to us, sotally exciting, and I think it's cool to see some of the new players in the content space are getting a crack at the opportunity to stream in the same ways you would basically turn on your television and put on NBC, ABC, etcetera. And so I'm really excited to see what from the original programming um is that comes out of places like Group nine with you know,

Ben Lear's Thrillis and the other sub brands under his portfolio. UM. And more exciting than that, we're going to get a chance to go back into the archives from an earlier discussion we had this year with one of the partners at Attention A t t N dot Com. Brad Hougan, Yeah, I think you know, we wanted to as you said, Laura kind of moved back to move forward to the conversation we had with Brad a few months ago. It's kind of one of our lost files that we're gonna

te up in this episode. It's really interesting just talking about how they built audience, where they kind of came from actually their founders for nonprofit people UM and realized that there was more or in the space of entertainment and news media that needed to center around UM, not cause marketing, but really kind of putting cause issues in front of the public and making sure that they're talking to things that people have said are important to them.

And I think that looking forward, you know, to me, there are a ton of questions I have in terms of where does this put the agency? How do agencies get involved in this? If we've got all of these media companies and tech companies that are actually producing original content more and more, and we know the advertising is

fundamentally changing, where the agencies sit in this mix? And I think that's going to be a future episode that we hit on and you know, talk to some folks about Its interesting you bring up the idea of where this sits in the role of agency, and I think one of the more interesting angles that some of these publishers who have gotten out in front or producing content for brands, whether that's Attention and whether that's Mike, whether

that's t Brand, whether that's Vox. You know, it's interesting to see that not only are these media companies out there producing and reporting and you know, providing analysis on the issues that matter, they're also starting to pick up

production work. And it's interesting that they're able to demonstrate proof of concept through their actual reporting and journalism and being able to put that on the head and say, you know what, you know, for brands, we can actually get into market quickly and produce content around things that

are contextually relevant in the moment. So I think agencies are going to have to compete with this and figure out how and what role they play when you have you know, people who have the resources and the production capabilities um and also the you know, insight and the know how on what's happening to insert a brands of culture and do it quickly. I totally agree, and I

would love to talk. We're going to have Andrew estex on stand and I would love to talk to him about what does it look like when agencies stop getting briefs and start writing them the themselves, like preemptively, just about things that they think matter for their brands, and start creating relationships that are super strong with these platforms so that they have a pipeline for content and quick

content production that is really innovative. And I think something that brands don't know to ask for, but the agency can start delivering on. I think there's an opportunity there. So enjoy episode fifteen and the last days of summer. We'll be enjoying it with a spicy margarita on the beach and in the burbs. Thanks bad Landia. We're here with Brad Howgan, partner at Attention dot Com and Issues based media company. Welcome Brad, Hey, Brad, Hey, guys, glad to be here. So Brad, do you have a super

fascinating story. I'm at ut, but you've gone on to done some insane things since then started at BBH in New York and then got a call I should say, call up to the majors. Maybe I don't know. I saw you a chopped I'll never forget I'm Wall Street with your wife, and I'm like, what's up. You're like, I'm moving to l A. And I'm like why. And You're like, I'm going to work with this guy, Scooter brou And I was like, who the fund is that

you grew up with him? Right? Yeah, I've actually been working with him for a couple of years at that point, but we actually decided we were gonna plant some roots and up in office. So we still don't have a tan. But you left. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty pale, I'm like the white I'm like, I'm super white. I've got blond eyebrows. So you were the cmot SP projects and then at some point over the course of your time there, you decided to move on to Attention. Yeah. I was like, man,

we've made it. Life is good, money's coming in. Why don't I leave and go work at a startup? Get something else off the ground, which I figured, like I had I've got two young kids and I'm, you know, in my mid thirties. I figured I'm gonna give it one more go in the startup world because I don't think that you know, in ten years, I don't know that I'll have it in me again. So it was exciting.

And I met Matthew and Jarrett in like, Matthew and Jared are my partners and the co founders of the company, and UM. I helped them get this business off the ground, but they're the ones who had the vision for it, and it was a really um they're really spectacular guys. I met them in two thousand, I guess mid two thousand twelve, like leading into the election, they had started our time dot org and we were introduced UM when I was working a scooter to help get talent to

be in videos and tweet about voter registration. And I was just always really impressed by how that two of them specifically were able to on a nonprofit budget not only get talent to do things for them, but they were actually really good at breaking down the issues and like, you know, it wasn't just a video with Usher or Jessica Alba saying vote. It was like, here's why you

should vote. And you know, I don't want to put words in their mouth, but I feel like they were a little bit frustrated with nonprofit space because there's a lot of restrictions, but they were really excited about the content side of that business, and they wanted to start a media company, and um, I knew some people who were really excited to invest in that space, and um, they all met and they loved each other, and um they got the business off the ground, and then I

came on board about eight months later. Um, but it was it's been like a cool ride. You make it sound so easy, and it's it's just that easy and it's just that yeah, and now we have attention and here we are. But they really put in the work and there's a great core team of people who've been there at the company for a little over two years.

And UM, you know, it's been it's a grind every day, but like when you get to make content that matters and work on things that you're passionate about, it's really it makes the job a lot easier. Doesn't mean that every day isn't a grind. It just means, like, you know, you can be proud of the output on a daily basis, and that's exciting. It's exciting to be part of. And that's how I was when I was a scooter. That's how I was when I was a BBH. Like I

love the creative work that we made. Then I was going to ask you, I mean, what's the difference between going from entertainment music based work where you're like driving rising stars, you're talking to millennials, which are still talking to millennials, right, um, but more on the entertainment side, to now something where you're really trying to drive issue education, right Yeah. I mean I think that there are a lot of things that are parallels and like similar so

building a foundation, building an audience, building fandom, right. Like I always tell people what's been really impressive about the growth of Attention is it's actually not that different from Bieber. Like a lot of people say that we came out of nowhere, but we've been around doing this for two years and we've been Facebook has been a huge integral part of it, yea a massive a piece of it, and we've really were focused on just making great quality

content that people wanted to share. Um. We've never promoted a post, we've never boosted a Facebook post, we've never paid for any growth at all. And it's because we're just focused on making really good, premium shareable content. And like when I was working with Scooters, the same thing it was. You know, people said, oh, my god, Justin

Bieber came out of nowhere. But um, we had been at it for a long time, and Scooter in particular had been at it for a very long time years before, you know, just making videos that people thought Justin was making himself like you know, Scooter was masterminding that, and you know the stories out there now you know, made

a couple of movies about it. But it's not that dissimilar. Um, I think the differences are you know, we're entertainment and music in particular is um and talent manage in particular is much more. You don't really it's not like a huge scalable business with regards to like you don't need a lot of staff, you know, it's like you need managers to manage projects and maybe a couple of people

to support um projects. But um, you know, the difference for me has been going back to I have to draw a lot back from my advertising agency days, where it's like building structure and holding staff accountable, holding myself accountable. Um, and um, it's relearning old skills of you know, you still have to hustle, but you have to hustle with a lot more structure in your day, which is which

is you know, when you're working in entertainment. When when I was working entertainment, we we had a lot of hustle, but it was just kind of like let's do this, let's do this, let's do this, let's do this. And now it's like, okay, well we need to think about the plan, like what are we doing next year? What are we doing in two years? And how do we grow our business? And it's it's just different, you know because a lot most of the fake news bubble, like

what wrench has that thrown in your plan? Considering a lot of or has it? Yeah, I don't think it's thrown any wrenches in our plan. I mean we're really focus and you know, I don't run our editorial operation. Matthew Siegel does, and he does a sensational job. He is amazing instincts for what people want to want to Um. I mean Our Time was his first thing. Like they

started Our Time right after college. Um. But they both were in d C. And Matthew testified before Congress about voting lines that he had waited, like I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think it's like a nineteen hour voting line or something crazy. He voted after they called the election in two thousand eight, um, and he was pissed, and then he testified before Congress and he was like super involved in politics ever since. So it's got a very strong play. That's actually a killer story

and the motivating story for why attention exists. Yeah, well it's that's why our time started. It was like civic engagement, like let's let's get young people involved, and then that rolled into attention. Same thing. It's like, you know, we want to start conversations that matter around issues that deserve attention, and we want young people to feel like they can understand these issues. All people really that they can feel like they can understand issues, um, in ways that they

want to consume them. Because people aren't going and watching our long documentaries on a regular basis anymore. Um. People are on their phone all day and people are not, um,

you know, reading as much for better or words. I think reading actually went up a little bit around the election cost election, which is great, UM, but video is huge, and UM, if you can distill you know, the Syrian refugee screening process into two minutes, which we did with the White House, then in people watch it and you get millions of people to watch something like that. That's cool. You worked with the White House on that, Yeah, we work with the White House on that and on quite

a lot of other projects as well. We've done some Zeca Explainer videos with the White House. We've UM done some coverage and videos around UM, the commutation of some people who are incarcerated with UM when the President the last two times we've broken a couple of stories with

the President that as well. Alex and I has spent a lot of time talking about kind of the the emergence of issues based media companies out of the distermediation of traditional news companies based on social and what have you. Why do you think the time has been right for attention now? Like, why do you think you've been able to scale? How many uniques are you up to now? We reach over half a billion people monthly globally. Yeah,

I mean why now? I mean we we debate this all the time, like, you know, given social and given the place, like, what role will attention play in the next ten fift twenty years for our generation? Yeah? I mean I think it's I think it's a couple of things. I think part of its luck as as it always is. Right, We launched our company at the same time that Facebook Video launched, and we made a conscious decision to ignore

all other properties. We were way behind everybody else on YouTube, so platform decision was, let's just be really good at Facebook and hope that Facebook video is going to be as big as we think it is. And so we took that risk, which paid off. And I want to interrupt the flow, but like, how do you make that? How did you make that? Bet? So when you when you look at both platforms, Facebook was kind of in this interesting place, but totally the reasoning was twofold. When

you look at both platforms. One, everyone was way ahead of us on YouTube, but everyone is in the same playing field on Facebook video, Like nobody had any views a month, right, it was just like just starting. So we were whether your vice or your buzz feed or your attention, you're all at zero right there, just launching second. YouTube had become and still is a massive search platform.

But if you're a company that nobody's ever heard of, no one's going to search for you on YouTube because like they've never heard of you, so why would they go on there? And you know, that's my My use case for for YouTube is probably the same as you guys, which is like, oh I want to watch this video. Oh I want to listen to this song, and you just everyone does. Right, that's your YouTube engine. It's the number two search engine after Google. Yeah and right, I

mean I'm just railing off facts. Yea yeah. But as a platform, I'm pretty sure. So so you have that versus Facebook, which was already a discovery platform, right. The feed allows you to discover things easier. So we're like, okay, well if that's the case, and you know, and again this this decision was made largely by Jared Matthew, Michael, Mike Finissi and our team at the time, um, and they did a great job just you know, making that call. And it was the right call and it paid off.

So where are you doubling down? Like what technology are you bullish on in and kind of what's driving that? Is it marketers, is it the news cycle? Is it culture? Where are you really focusing? So I'll answer that in a couple of parts. One, it's definitely not the news cycle, um, which is the gift that keeps I probably have a more aggressive everyone saying that, Well, I have a. I have probably more aggressive stance than most people at our company, but we all feel the same way, which is we

are not a news company. We don't want to be a news company. Our goal is to be impervious to the news cycle. I don't want to be the next generation news company. I'm not trying to take down CNN. There's a really good, fascinating how this dynamic has changed over the last twelve months. Well, so, like the new cycle is an up and down business, right, so you're when the news is good, your business is good. When the news is bad, your business is bad. It's just

not a good business. And we feel like it was for generations. Yeah, but that was when they were not That was when they were like five, like three stations to get news leading to a bigger point. Yeah, of course. So now with like like everyone's covering the same thing over and over again. Right, So our whole point is, like, you know, what do millennials care about? What do people

care about? They care about issues more importantly. People are again this is like me my point of view, but like people are selfish and they care about not just the issue, but how that issue affects them. And so our goal is to show people here's what the issue, here's what it means, and here's how it's going to affect you in your life. And is that playing to the echo chamber though? Is it playing to the echo chamber of like, here's what's trending, here's what we want

to think. So, because I mean, there are a lot of things that are just like you know we we do. We have a series called America Versus right, um, and we do this on a very regular the videos where you demonstrate like food in schools in this country compared to Japan. The first thing we did in the series was America Versus Japan school lunches. We've done four hundred million views on America Versus videos this year, just this year,

and um, we really struck a churt. So Nick, now, for instance, we're taking that series and we're gonna ladder it up. So we get we're looking for a host. We're gonna take that host around the world and we're going to compare America to other countries you know, hosted series and that's like we know that that works, right, So that's where the talent you're investing in to do stuff like that. Who are the talent. We're taling, so I mean we're talking to some talent, but like we

go back and forth a little bit. It's like, do we want to find someone who's well known already or and for whether it's that series or any series, or do we want to homegrow talent um and like find people that nobody has heard of, but like bring them up with us, And like it's kind of like Rolling Stone back in the day. It's like you want to find your you know, you're a Cameron Crow was, um, you know what I mean, Like, wouldn't it be cool? So like we're just investing in young talent. We have

all these amazingly talented writers, watching editors. Who's the up and coming talent at our company? I mean, we've got a lot of people. I don't want to I don't want to single anyone out, I guess because I don't want anyone to feel bad. But I will say this. We have, um, a guy named Omar Roland who runs

are our snapchat. He does a show on on our Snapchat called how to Sound Smart, and he gives you a hilarious he like does it while he's in bed, brushing his teeth, picking out his outfit and he's like, these are the three things you need to notice sound smart today, and uh, it's a it's just a great it's a great show. Like and it's to the point where like, uh, I get my mom My mom texts me every day She's like, oh my god, Omri was

amazing today. So he was great. We've got Kyle Yeager, who's probably like the best young marijuana reporter in the country, and I genuinely believe that we have a woman but one of the first platforms, by the way, that I think was really bringing to the forefront, UM, marijuana legalization. Yeah, at the risk of sounding totally braggadocious, I would put our marijuana coverage up against anyone's, Like I really do think that, and um, we've covered it doggedly over the

last two years. UM to the relations with marketers, though I'm curious, I honestly don't think they care. I don't either. I don't think they care. I think they're other things that we that we could cover that people are way

more sensitive about, um, like politics. You know, it's funny, it's like from a marketing perspective to everyone's like, oh my gosh, it's probably so much money being thrown at the election, like blah blah blah from from brands and normally that is the case, right, like brand spend this election, Like everyone pulled back. Everyone's liked in the middle dance floor by himself. Everybody was like it was like the bud light. The bud light adds with like Seth Rogan

and yeah, that was it. That's like all I saw, wasted to see hit the fucking wall. But you didn't want to be in the way of that happening. Okay, I want to go back to have celebrities come to you and said, I love what you're doing, like you have relationships and it doesn't have to be celebrities, but talent, right like people entertainment super connected. I mean I was. I was very lucky to work in the talent business

for long time. And it's beneficially yeah, I mean, but not just me, like our whole we have multiple people in our company who I mean, we're in l a like with multiple people in our company, Matthew and Jarrett included, who've done a lot of videos with talent, like you know, like we we did a video with Usher. I brought Usher in, but he remembered Matthew and Jarrett from when he did videos with Our Time. So how did that

come about? Um, we have uh, a young hustler at our company who figured out a way and it wasn't me. It didn't come through me. She just figured out a way to get to to get to Gaga's team. But like I would actually think right now, especially right now that celebrities are saying they need or thinking, you know what, if I'm going to do something with this right if I'm going to do something with this, this fame, this voice, I want to go and partner with someone that it's

going to be meaningful. So are you getting pete? Are you guys getting calls? Was like, hey, love what you're doing. What are they saying they want an outlet? So like I'll give you a good example, Like we're doing some stuff. We've done some stuff and or continue to do some stuff with Vic mensa Um, who is an artist who's one of the hottest up and coming rappers in the country. He's incredible talent and he uh, he's actually a guy

who puts his money where his mouth is. Like a lot of people, not just talent, people like to talk about issues and like shine light on issues. Vic went to Standing Rock. Vic went to Flint, Vic went and protested when Lacwon McDonald was shot. He wrote a song about on the show The show, I mean, I can we can ask. VI's amazing, He's incredible. I think I could have handled that. I honestly don't think, but you know what I mean. He went to Standing Rock twice.

He went, and he went and he brought like a group of activists back and there are a lot of their They stood on the front lines and like protected the protesters and like he brought people back to Standing He rented a bus on his own dime from Chicago where he's from, drove people overnight to Standing Rock and they all protested and like this is like how active he is. And then he channels this into his music, which is very He's he's just an activist at heart,

and like that's that's you. That's not everybody, and it doesn't have to be everybody, but like what we want to be in that conversation is the platform that they use. So like I always say, like going back to my music days, it's like when you put out an album or or a single, you want you gotta go do the Today's Show, and you do Fallon and you do Kimmel or you probably can't do both, but you do one of the two. You do ellen Um and you've got like the Rolling Stone cover and this. That's all

to promote the music. But when a publicist is trying to get their artists out there, they also want human stories. We want to be a stop on that press tour so that talent comes to us. Would you say it's like a young MTV. Yeah, I would say that. I mean there's a hole in the market for it. I love MTV so passionate, I love I love it, but it's still a great brand. It's an amazing brand. They're amazing people there the time, and we are rooting for them all the time. Is now. The time is now.

Though some advice, there's you guys, there's so many. You are very very different than Vice, very very trust me. I love Vice. I'm a consumer and I have a lot of friends there, and I know you guys do too, But I think that they're You're right, there's a place for that. But I'm interested too because I think that UM celebrities sometimes attach themselves to certain things. I don't think that the way you're talking about issues that you can just attach yourself. You have to do something with it.

And that's what I think is is actually different when you have a product and I'm gonna call attention right what you do as a product that is that, Um, it's just it's just real. It's real. And I love that you're not driven by the news cycle because it actually makes it. Uh, it gives some dissonance right to the news cycle that it needs how we break through. That's how you break through totally. Like there are great companies out there in our space that are attacking the news.

Um that you know, a lot of people consider competition of ours, Like I think they just make their good companies that go out and you know, make good content. But like we are not you know now like now this news like or now this now that I guess they're rebranded themselves. Um, they're they're a great company, like Sensational, I think they But they make so much content and they're like breaking things all day every day. I mean, you know, we're not doing three D videos a month.

We're not doing two D videos a month. We do like fifty And if you're going to limit yourself to doing fifty videos in a month. You have to make sure that every video counts. And like we're the number one publisher in America on digital average use per video

with the number one and engagements per video. And so you bring up an interesting point in that, right, because I think it's as marketers is something we kind of quarrel a bit about, which is you know, frequency over impact, right, And and basically what you're just saying is you can turn and burn content out all day, but is the impact in which you're delivering that meaningful depends on your business? And I was just saying, if you care like seeing it's like are you are you going to be CNN

or are you going to be I would argue. I would argue though, that everybody has the opportunity to be a CNN at this point, you know, everybody have given social and now although really hard, yeah, but I'm saying everybody's an opportunity to break news. Everybody has the opportunity to have a voice. There is doing a really good job at that. By the way, BuzzFeed News does not get enough credit for breaking stories. They never have actually

for writing actually very good, great stories. I think they do a great job. So where are places you're Brad making big bets for I mean, you know, in terms of are you investing in partnerships? Talks us a little bit about your relationship with Bill Maher. You've done some great content with him. Are these a type of relationship you're looking to build out for the new year? Yeah, I mean they're they're Bill. Bill has been since a

sensational investor. He's an investor in our business. Um. You know, he and he and Matthew in particularly gotten very close. They're very similar. Matthew is like the biggest Bill mar fan. And it was so it was so badass because he was like, I'm gonna get Bill Maurer to invest in this company, and he and he just like hustled it. Peace bar did. He did a panel with um it was on his show. It was with John Legend. Dude.

It was one of the best. You know, it was a lot of people, a lot of people started talking a lot more about it. But I have not really been engaged by him in that way until I saw that post. So like, he's been a great partner from from you see yourself leaning into smart comedy a bit, Yeah, for sure, I think we're gonna make some bets on comedy for sure, and I think smart comedy though smart, we're not gonna Yeah, I mean it's not it would be off brands to not be um, but I do think, Um,

I think we're I think keep going, keep going. We could stop there, but we're gonna keep going. We could and we're good. Um, but I think, um, I mean, they're we're gonna make someone. We're always doubling down on Facebook every day because I don't think Facebook going anywhere anytime soon. But can we talking about that less than

three seconds? There's been a lot of transparency issues, reach issues, like you know, when you're talking to a brand, you're talking to a marketer or even talking to talent, what are you talking about in terms of the views you're getting? Like how real are you get? Trust in transparency? Well, yeah, but it's it's important, Yeah, for your brand, it's important for your viewers. Right, So, like how are you are you many conversations with Facebook? It's yeah, we talked to

Facebook every day. But it's also I mean, we're in a very lucky position right now in that, like our numbers are incredible because organic, because they're organic and our completion rates are Like that's the fundamental difference. Like when you don't pay for views, you have real So like when Facebook changes are algorithm, people like, oh my god, are you guys? Like no, because we're just optimizing for shares anyway, Like I want people to share amongst their

friends and their family. People elect to like attention because no one sees it in a sponsored thing, watches one video and just clicks like because that's how the ere attrition rate is. Just it's just different. It's just like a totally different. When you think about audiences, especially on Facebook, how do you start thinking about who your audience really is? Because millennial doesn't mean it means something, But when you're talking about you know, audience reach, it means you know,

you better go hustle the world. Yeah, of course. I mean look, you've got to always start with your core. Like Facebook is a millennial platform, Like there are a lot of people does more than millennials are on Facebook but this but a lot of the shares are driven by like mid twenties to mid thirties to late thirties people, and um, that is like that's that's like our core audience.

So like that's Facebook, but every platform is Like our audience on Instagram is different from our audience on Facebook, our audience on Snapchat, which we're growing and betting a lot on in seventeen to your question earlier, is different, like it's younger. Uh, it's they want to see different types of content, Like it can't be the same stuff. And I think where a lot of traditional media companies fail.

And this is like the obvious answer to people who know, but when you look at it, when you when you when you don't know, Like you can't just cut the same thing first for Snapchat, Instagram face, you can't just do it sting to it now. Honestly, they are some of them are. That doesn't mean you're starting to execute some of them are. But a lot of them are getting it by like acquiring companies right and or hiring the right people or partnering with people were starting. Like

I think CNN has done a great job. I don't think great Big Story gets enough credit. I think there are a lot of you know, you're the second person this week that actually has said that. Yeah, I think turners feel like I feel like they're on the upswing, thewing going into you know, everybody's starting. That's true, I think so. I mean between a Time Warner deal with I will tell you that I wanted to say this before, but there was a I don't. I'm not I'm going

to butcher the quotes. I'll just say into you guys later. But there's a YouTube clip of Ben Smith from BuzzFeed on a panel with Jeff Zucker and Jeff Sucker like it's it's really impressive what CNN does. He's like, he's like, you know, Ben, what do you have to do? You know? Be like Ben was very asked this question. I don't remember who was on the panel. The point is that Jeff Zucker was like, basically, Ben Smith was like, I do two minutes of content a month, right for short

form video. And Jeff was like, with all due respect, I did two hundred minutes of content in three hours and I do that all day every day. And you're like, holy crap, Like CNN, for whether you like it or hate it, is an impressive operation. Before you go, we have to play one game with you because it plants versus zombies, because I'm obsessed with that on my phone now. But we'd like so we like kill fuck Mary you know, kill Mary, Yeah, I do. We're going to ask You're

not gonna ask you that. Okay, good, We're not gonna ask you that. But we we like the model, right and that's goods go. I don't know what I'm gonna be out. Are you watching? But it's kill What would you kill? What would you buy? And what would you do yourself? D I Y? So we'll give you options. Don't worry. Kill kill by d I Y, Amazon, Netflix, HBO, kill by Open up my notepad here the little math.

He's got to see which one is. I'm not going to hurt his partnerships and producers, like wrap it up, Rad like getting out of um all right, I would by Amazon, I would kill Netflix, and I would do HBO. Yeah, Snapchat, Facebook, Twitter, I would kill Twitter here, I would buy Facebook and I would do Snapchat myself. Biber, Kanye Beyonce, no comment, I'd buy Biber, Brad, Brad Howgen, everybody from Attention dot com be sure to check out the site. Like it

on Facebook. Thanks guys, Thanks, thank you. So that's the episode fifteen. I hope you enjoyed the Lost File with Brad Howgan from Attention. Thank you, Brad, and a big thanks for our best producer he's actually our only producer, Cameron Drew's Enjoy Your Label Day weekend. Also special thanks as always to Andy Bower's, Matt Turk and our friends and family. A panoply thanks bad Landia, Do you in two weeks? Full disclosure. Our opinions are our own.