Marketing for Longevity, Not Leasing, with Michaella Solar-March

became a New Yorker. She was the CMO of Tischmann's Spire and she oversaw the complete rebranding and reimagination frankly of Rockefeller Center. MICHAELA Solar March is here today. We're really excited to have Michaela. And since we recorded with her, she has taken a new role and is moving back to Australia. We're very sad to lose her. Will miss you. We will miss you definitely. We will stay in touch. She's moving back to Australia in a new role as

Chief Marketing Officer of Molus Australia Hospitality Group. And I think with this episode Mikhaela has really spent time and it doesn't really matter where she was, but I think

with some of the most iconic spaces. Before she was at Tishman Spire and Rockefeller Center, she was at the Soho House and ran global programming and really started to think about community space commerce together and has a really interesting perspective on it that I think vibes with a lot of things we've been saying over this last year on the show around creation and ownership, not just creating for a transaction, but really pushing into what she'll call placemaking,

and we'll talk more about that. I think it's a really interesting place to click in on Alexa when you

use the word placemaking and really thinking about hospitality. There's a really interesting lens to put on top of the role of marketing both now and in the future, and thinking about is the role of chief marketing officer not just rolling up now communications potentially product etcetera, and so forth, but actually hospitality and so much of that being driven by the increasing importance of not just being in the game or being in the business of driving people to

a website to transact, driving people to um subscription or membership as part of service, but actually thinking about community building and what you need to create or program for as Mikhayla is going to talk about, to create a space where that sort of ongoing dialogue, conversation, communication is happening, and does that move the role of marketing from this push poll mechanism to really the cyclical how you're thinking about feedback by in shareholder and what that means in

terms of community developed an ongoing relationship between consumer and brand and Michaela not only has created a really strong network of artists, creators, business people, real estate folks through her role at t Schman Spire, she has used that input to do something that I'm not sure has been really well recognized. Um you and I spent a lot of time with her at Rock Center. I used to when I was at GE we had actually an office at our office was at thirty Rock, So I spent

a ton of time at Rock Center. And at the time, this is back in I was at Rock Center all the time and it was that kind of feeling of like going to Times Square right Rock Center, I've got to get through the foot traffic there didn't seem to have a sense of a real that New York state of mind, that New York feeling, those gems that are

hidden in that space. What Michaela has done, and what Michaela did with that space and the thinking around the design and the programming opening up spaces like she's reopened spaces in Rock Center that we're closed off for years. She's reimagined things. One of the reasons Michaela actually got in touch with us was because she was thinking about creating a recording studio in an old newsstand in one

of the Rock Center buildings, and she did it. But what's interesting about this there is an infusion of New Yorkers where that vibe of kind of authentic New York has come back and is continuing to grow at Rockefeller Center. And what happens is is now community the kind of unlikely New Yorker who would say, no, I don't want to meet at Rock Center because it's a tourist trap and a tourist attraction is now saying not only do I want to meet there, I want to work there.

I want to shop there, I want to create there. And what's exciting through the conversation you and I had Laura last night in this morning pre show was what does that start to look like when companies, corporate and marketers are thinking about co ownership of space with their customer, with their fan, with their creator. Go back to our last episode, This is not a drill. This is not a drill. This is going to happen, and it's happening with Doabs and we'll talk about those things and Web

three and we'll talk about those things more. But to take kind of traditional marketing and start to aim it towards a new trajectory. I think michaela is actually a great example of taking one of the most traditional assets in the world, Iconic, and starting to really rethink it and rethink it along the lines of true community, content

and commerce. As you were talking and as somebody who who was working with you during those years and knows that commute, well, I was thinking about how it was a backdrop or it was a place I had to go to, and what you're drawing a sort of transition to is a place I get to go to, a

place I want to go to. And no different whether you're an e commerce brand, you're in the service business, you're uh, you know, running a club, um, you have a sports team, right, how do we get to the I get to go to I want to go to, versus I have to go to And that's the transition from transaction right to experience to hospitality. And it's interesting, as MICHAELA will talk about in this episode, thinking about from the point of entry all the way through to

the set design. I'm thinking about candles and menu and font and patterns and all of these things that are the aesthetic that helps to emphasize the narrative. And with that, MICHAELA solar Mark, we'll be right back. All right, ed Landia,

we are back with our partners that yield Mo. If you remember, we spent our first mini series talking about how yield Mo works with brands to make audience attention actionable and in this mini series we take on how contextual targeting is being reimagined as brands make every interaction with their consumer meaningful. Welcome Lisa Bradner, GM of Data and Analytics from yield Mo. Thank you so much, great

to be back. Always great to talk to you guys. So, Lisa, I consider myself to be a fairly strategic and creative

media buyer. I would say you are yes, thank you, um, but but as we're having this conversation, you know, I'm thinking about some of the traditional processes and structures that exist and how those need to be disrupted to really achieve the level of granularity and specificity you're talking about in terms of getting to real time, closer to real time, more integrated, all of the inputs right that are required to achieve the type of success that we're talking about.

In my mind, I'm seeing these ships from planning seasonally to planning situationally right, thinking about moving from transaction to thinking about transformation. What are three things you would click on for marketers to start today right? Like? What are the three fundamental must dues or takeaways for brand marketers, creatives, buyers to get closer to context? Not in any particular order. There are words that we've talked about before, but I

think are worth revisiting. Leadership and ownership of the customer experience. Far too many samos, I'll just say it, they love going to their creative agency. They don't spend as much time with their media agency. They don't spend nearly the time, blood, sweat and tears on media plans that they do on creative plans, and they should be integrating those meetings and having both and leading that charge. Don't bring me a

creative idea without a media plan with it. Don't bring me a media plan without understanding how the creative phase is in. Cmos can be driving that by demanding that out of their agencies, and they absolutely should, so leadership around that integration is critical. I'm going to say a degree of serendipity in the sense of I think what audience data got everybody hung up on is that there is a rational answer to every marketing problem. People are messy.

We buy things for non rational reasons. Were emotional. Sometimes we like an add sometimes we hate it. Sometimes it's just late enough at night and we're board, so we buy stuff. I think marketers have to step back and think about serendipity, how to drive it, and how to know when it's happening. I think contextual signals that are attuned to that can be a critical part of Hey, I'm seeing something here. I'm seeing a spike in a

lot of metrics that are happening right now. Something's going on with that execution, with that creative right now, Let's double down and figure it out. So to use the data, but use the data to inform serendipity so you know what's going on. And kind of along those lines, the last thing I would say is common sense. Right there is art to what we do and common sense about as a consumer. What do I mean we are? What I've always loved about being in marketing is we're all consumers.

We all know what it is to see an ad, to buy a product, to be in a store, to do all these things. So step back and think about the experience you want to have and think about how to bring that experience through to your brand and not at all like you know something, We're not always the target audience for our own products, but we're at a human level. How do I want brands to show up for me? When do I want to hear them? What makes a great brand experience for a brand that I'm

loyal to? How do I want brands to show up for me? And how do I make sure as a brand that's how I show up? Thank you, Lisa Bradner and our partners at yield MO. Looking forward to having you back for the last part of our four part series What's Up bad Landia. We are back in this studio, the Virtual Studio with one of our favorite people, MICHAELA. Solar March, the CMO of Tishman Spey. Are welcome, Micham. We've got a lot of accents on this show. I

didn't notice. MICHAELA is our Aussie, our Bossy Auzzy, one of our favorite You are the first. You're our first Aussie. It's after the floodgates are open. Our mutual friend Roth Martin who introduced us. Because you listen to the show. You would recently take in the chief Marketing Officer role

at Tishman Spire and one of the core assets. So if you don't know, Tischman Spire is the largest real estate company in the world with some of the best known and most valuable assets in space and buildings in the world. MIKHAELA, how big is it in assets unto management? We have fifty six billion in assets on the management right now and as part of those assets, you manage Rockefeller Center, which is one of the most well known in the world spaces in the heart of New York City.

So we just got to see you in person, which was amazing at one of your new spaces that you just launched in Rock Center six twenty loft and Garden. You had a lunch there. Stunning, stunning. It's so beautiful, isn't it. So six twenty Loft and Gun has been open for a really long time, but predominantly as a wedding venue. Yeah, So if you're getting married in New York, you know six twenty. But if you're not getting married, or you got married a long time ago like me,

it's not on your radar. So the lunch that you guys came to was a pop up that we're doing with local restaurants to to sort of re energize that space and reintroduce it to New Yorker's Let's use six twenty as a great jumping off point because how you've thought about spaces, experiences, creating community um is something that you've been doing for a while. To tell us kind of how you came to Titium Inspire, what was the what was the kind of non linear pathway there? I was.

I had a friend who was consulting Petition Inspire at the time, who had been in hospitality. He'd worked at Soho House, which is where I knew him from. He'd worked at Noire House, and then he ended up working on the West Coast supporting some of the new hospitality initiatives that our CEO had been pushing at the time, and he recommended me for the CMO role at Rockefeller Center. To start with. It wasn't the holistic portfolio of our family of assets. It was really focused on Rock Center

and reimagining and reinvigorating Rockefeller Center. And when dishmonds By first called me, I said, no way, that place is not for me. Rock Center isn't cool, it's not relevant. I don't know how, I don't know what I could bring to the table. And the recruiter said to me is sort of these very traditional recruiter conversations. The recruiter said to me at the time, please come with me with these guys, because it doesn't matter that you don't

come from the commercial real estate world. They want to do things differently. At the time when she had reached out to me, I was running programming, brand UM and sort of member experience for the Soho House group globally. I was based in New York, but running that for UM the whole suite of properties and hotels and a lot of our restaurant spaces all over the world, and I was traveling all the time. So the two things that sort of sparked my interest about the Rockefeller Center position.

One was this idea that a legacy asset could reimagine itself and re engage New York in a meaningful way. And the other was that I maybe wouldn't have to travel as much because I had really young kids. Well at the time, I had a young kid. Now you have another young kid. Now I have another young kids, two young kids, and I really missed traveling. So there

it comes full circle. But yeah, so, I mean I had been at SOH House, so space and and UM community, and the connection between those two things had always been of um major importance and a real fascination to me.

The idea of programming experiences and creative culture within an environment that facilitates the best community connection that matters to me, and it was something that I love to do at Soho House, and I was really intrigued by the idea of doing that within a larger, slightly more structured, far

more traditional environment, which is definitely commercial real estate. They've never done stuff like that, and it was there was a real appetite to do things differently and to re engage tenants in a way that UM felt more relevant for the future. So, Mikaela and thinking about community and space, I have to imagine that programming please a pretty critical

part of obviously leveraging the space to create community. UM, can you talk to us a bit about the role of programming in space and how that can potentially make

or break a community's experience. Programming used to be seen as events, and the more that hospitality became a thing and members clubs were introduced and coworking spaces were introduced, and this industry took off in the way that it did sort of you know, in the last ten years, really concentrated in the last six or seven UM programming as a concept sort of air quotes. Programming became a lot more relevant because people started to recognize that it

wasn't just about hosting an event. It is the opportunity to curate people and experiences within spaces that were truly additive to that community, whether it be for education, mentorship, networking, UM, community building, whatever the desired outcome. Programming became the sort of catch or for getting people together and creating experiences that had a pre event, at event and post event UM meaning for the audience whoever that audience might be.

The evolution of that, I think in the last couple of years has become placemaking, which has always been a thing in commercial real estate, but more and more is starting to be adopted by cities and UM, both local and state governments and within the sort of the broader real estate world. And placemaking is if you have to sort of break it down, all of these various elements that UM added up create the experience that you might

have within a space. So UM, if you think about the hospitality elements from the furniture and the law and in and the music and the you know, um, the hosts in a lobby, to the types of retail and the retail merchandizing that you might engage with two the tenant mix makeup, to the landscaping, to the interior design, to the I mean you name it, the creative that

you see. It's all of those various elements together. It's interesting to think about how you're not just programming in terms of speakers or menu, you're programming in terms of aesthetic to communicate a narrative or an energy. It's like set design. Yeah, and that includes the people too, because programming. You've really got to curate the types of people that you're engaging for the various you know, whether it's the space or the audience. Um, it's really about the people too.

Who's in that room and why and what are they taking away from that experience? When they came to you and said we want you to think differently about this, did they say we want to have a different audience, we want to have different interaction or different we want to get too, different types of people and bring different types of people into Rock Center that we haven't seen. Because Rock Center is a majority, it's either you're working there or you are a tourist. The brief was far um,

it was far less specific. It was incredibly broad because they didn't actually know what they wanted. They just knew that they had an opportunity to do things differently and robbed the CEO of Tishman Spier, who's an incredibly inspiring person and a real visionary, and he had the vision for Rock Center. He wanted this to be a place that New Yorkers wanted to be. But outside of that, you know, um, outside of that, he didn't know what

that meant how to achieve it. I think that was the first UM That was the first hook for me, the really exciting opportunity about working with Tishman Speyer. The portfolio is so vast and the global reaches just deeply impressive. But the chance to help shepherd this iconic legacy asset into its next chapter and ensure it's relevance for the future, I felt like something I could just not pass up.

So you have balanced and I love for I think we would love to get into the the pain of this because I've done it as well, the pain of balancing big legacy legacy company that is conservative, right and conservative probably for a lot of reasons, even though that doesn't mean the innovation is excluded from that. But it's hard to get through with being tip of this spear and creating not only a space, but an experience that

really refreshes the reputation. What have the struggle has been in terms of being a marketer that's really trying to innovate in a legacy space. Just focusing on Rock Center for now. I think for me where I found success was both the high and the low, like finding the the really big picture creative thinking that the strategic visioning that could UM help guide decision making across the organization while also finding those very tactical interventions that were proof

points for the larger strategy. One of the reasons that I had hired Russ, which is how we met in the early days, was to help reimagine rock Center in the at its care with a brand new belief system. There hadn't been an articulation of what Rockefeller Center wanted to be its mission and place in the world and how that could come to life for the various audiences that it's of, and we really engaged Ross at the time he was at Blackbird, before Blackbird became known to

do the strategic positioning for Rockefeller Center. That was a massive undertaking and as you're saying, or as you're sort of suggesting, um a a real a challenge, a creative and exciting challenge, but a challenge nonetheless, shepherding that through a very traditional organization, not only traditional in the way that it was structured, but in the way that they

had been doing things. It had been the same way for a really long time, and someone like me had never worked here, and that was exciting and really really difficult for a lot of people as that was being sort of carried through as we were working on that and then finding the key stakeholders internally and taking everybody on that journey. It was really co authored by all of my stakeholders internally, and I'm really proud of that.

Fat everyone got excited, saw the opportunity and got on board and helped create what we now have as the strategic positioning for Rockefeller Center as this asset. But we also found these like small moments that would, as I said,

become the proofpoints. You've got to find those small, very tactical moments that allow you very cheaply and quickly to affect the strategy so that people can see it in real life and see how it relates to their every day So, out of curiosity, can you give us a thirty thou foot snapshot of what that positioning was pre working with an agency to post. Interestingly, most people don't think of Rockefeller Center as as broad of a campus as it is, and they don't understand the various components

that make up this place. It's twelve buildings across six city blocks two acres. It's one of the biggest privately owned land masses in Manhattan. I think the biggest outside of perhaps Hudson Yards and Central Park. Rock Center isn't just a collection of attractions and some public space. It's one of the biggest office complexes in the city. It has entertainment areas, it's got events venues, it includes a

rainbow room. We've got the various um parks on our rooftop, including a new park on the roof of Radio City. It's there are all these various components that make up Rockefeller Center. So if you think about who works at Rockefeller Center, You've got facilities people, You've got property managers, you've got leasing teams, you've got retailers, you've got events coordinators, You've got everything that essentially anyone that works in a

small city works at Rockefeller Center. So without a clear articulation of the purpose of the brand or a north star for everyone to work towards, it's really hard to get everybody on the same page. In partnership with Blackbird, a real a clearly defined mission and vision for Rock

Center and its future. There wasn't any internal alignment. More broadly, people thought that they were all rowing in the same direction, but there wasn't a guidebook, and there wasn't something that people could have as their own, helped them with their decision making every day, and the output of that exercise, well,

just to give people those tools. I think what you're saying is super important as you think about that role of north Star going far beyond marketing organs right, thinking about as you said, the sales team, thinking about operations and how important it is for that north Star not to just be bought in for the sake of your next holiday campaign campaign. Yeah, this isn't about branding. So can you talk about that process of getting everybody on board?

What was that positioning and then how does it go to next generation of Rockefeller Center. I'll give you a really tactical example. One of our core values coming out of that brand EXERSI really we were creating the ethos for everyone to their execute in their day to day out of that exercise. UM, one of the core brand values for Rockefeller Center is authentic new York. And it lets the programming teams, the sales and leasing teams, the

retail merchandizes. It lets everyone have that as a benchmark. Is this retailer authentically new York? Is this tenant authentically New York? Is this event authentically New York and whatever that means to you, I know that's a little bit nebulous, but it helped people with decision making. There was so much opportunity and so much potential that it was almost

overwhelming for everybody. And having this shared mission was so empowering, and it has meant that we've had real success in the last three years since it was launched because everybody knows why they are doing what they're doing and why it's important, and everyone's speaking the same language. And interestingly, right when I started, this type of exercise was very

new Fetishman spy a let alone. Rockefeller Center marketing had always been seen as a a function of the leasing team, which I think is traditional within the commercial real estate very much so, and so marketing was seen as you were saying lauras like a logo and a leasing brochure and maybe a splash page, but it was all It was very transactional, and it was the first time that we really considered marketing as truly additive at the enterprise

level and strategically driving the business decision making for the future. And it repositioned marketing for the organization so that this wasn't just a logo and a color palette and a cool tagline for the next holiday campaign. Right, but it became really foundational to what we did, why we did it, and how we did it. Did it get to a place where you were defining these are the types of

retailers that share this ethos. Yeah, and like defining what authentically New York is and yeah, and if you look at if you came to the campus three years ago and you walked around today, it would be so radically different. When I was working at B Video and I had I was working on a thirty five dollar budget, uh, my salary that I was getting paid. When I first moved to New York, there were a lot of big corporate retailers, mall tenants. Yeah, a lot of mall tenants.

It felt like a it felt like a mall. It did. And now if you walk around, there are independently owned businesses. The first female independently own retailer has opened at Rock Center and we now have three there is Yeah, there's a lot of New York independent retailers. There's a lot in the hospitality space, so former soft goods spaces have been converted to restaurants and bars, it's a really exciting time.

And I'm hoping that these retailers become the magnets for the New York creatives and the types of New Yorker like, not even the New York creatives, like I just hope that these retailers become a magnet for New York because New Yorkers want to be where other New Yorkers are. And these are the types of retailers that we truly

believe resonate with with New Yorkers. The you know, the small independent bookseller or the great coffee shop that does that perfect light a that you get every morning, or the guys down the road that do your perfect cocktail for your you know, Thursday five o'clock happy hour, like those are the types of people that we have invited to be part of our future and really excited that a lot of a lot of the partners that we've signed on really get what we're trying to do, and

they're excited by the vision and they share our same hopes for this place and for this city. And if you think, now I'm ranting, but if you think about the few the sort of like what m post transactional space looks like in a COVID and post COVID world. You used to go into a store and buy something. That doesn't really happen anymore. Now it's about experience, it's

about brand, it's about storytelling, it's about creative content. How do you re merchandise these spaces that I mean, let's be honest, Rock Center is very old and it's historically landmark listed. There's not a lot that you can do to the inside of these spaces. How can you reposition them and re imagine them and engage new types of retailers that can help you um provide the types of

experiences that the modern consumer is looking to have. Because it's really interesting to think about the preposts as you were talking earlier about marketing in the real estate space very transactional in nature, to now thinking about programming the real estate to tell a story in which real estate now is transformational. M hm. For so much of the last few years we've been talking about digital transformation. Now we're talking about physical transformation. Yeah, and the role in

which physical spaces will now play. Talk to us about what physical transformation is on your properties over the last twelve to eighteen months and how you're thinking about it for the next twelve to eighteen. It's so interesting. I I remember member so vividly. At the very beginning of COVID, we were working from home and Richmonds Buyer was mostly

in the office. Um, there was a couple of months where we will work from home and then we were back in the office probably June last year, much earlier than most people. I was seeing so many conversations play out in media on LinkedIn, through friends, in various groups and networks that I'm a member of. Everyone was talking about the future of the office and how work from home was going to be the new norm, and that the office had rendered itself irrelevant and the office spaces

would need to completely transform themselves. And I just didn't buy it. And I think it's because community and connection matters.

And I know that sounds super cheesy, but I think there's a magical spark that happens, that spark of inspiration over the unexpected water call the conversation or the brainstorm session that you have with your team where someone with a very different perspective and background to you shares an idea and it leads to the next best thing or that campaign concept that you wouldn't have come up with

on your own. That's sort of serendipity. The magic of that moment can't happen in a scheduled thirty minute zoom. I truly believe that I always have, and I think people are starting after the last eighteen months to recognize that fact. They're realizing that they realized they miss the connection and the energy that comes from that one on

one or that group connection. I think the office has to change, and of course we're thinking about that at trim Inspire, and we're sort of repositioning ourselves and there's a number of products that we offer that we're actually the pre date of the pandemic around coworking and flexible workspace and workplace amenities and so on and so forth.

But the office, I think will remain incredibly important for productivity, but perhaps more important for big creative thinking because that's not something that you can do at home on your own. So do you see this office experience, like this space actually looking different. I think what's interesting is with we work kind of going to its demise. I mean, they're read,

they're trying to reinvent themselves. It feels like there's an opportunity for companies like Tishman Speyer UM to maybe fill in and do differently UM and reimagine something that we work was kind of going for Interestingly, about six years also ago, Tishman Spy recognized the need for flexible work product and rather than partnering with a third party like we work, we created our own coworking platform called Studio.

It is up and running and flourishing and there are you know, soon to be a hundred locations across the world. It's a really incredible business UM and something that we've run ourselves in house for a number of years. Watching what happened over the last eighteen months really fueled the obvious need for that and the excitement that we have around it. I think the bigger question UM less about like what do you do with that floorplate and how do you divide it up exactly. It's really about the

amenetization of the office. It can't just be like you said earlier, as you're talking about going to ge where you go in, you getting an elevator, you go up and you feel like you're in a corporate headquarters. It has to feel hospitable and the overuse of the word hospitality is driving me crazy right now in my industry

and everywhere else. But the idea of a hospitable experience where you're greeted, there's great music, there are great smells, there's a great place to eat, there's a love comfortable couch or chair to sit in. The amanetization of the workplace, whether that happens in a lobby, whether that happens through a suite of product and services that you offer as part of the tenant experience, or whether that's physical lounges and community spaces within our within our buildings. That's something

that we've been considering for a long time. It's something that we've had within the portfolio for the last ten years or so, but obviously the last eighteen months leaning very heavily into it. You know, you talk about authentically New York. To be able to distill that down to a scent as really as we're talking like, it's a

really powerful thing. I mean, are those elements Makila's You're you're you're pushing forward in terms of sensory obviously New York sensory overload, but if you're able to kind of pull it down into a few key fundamentals. What is that I think you want? Well, this is for us anyway, without giving away too many trade secrets. We want someone to enter and ave a Tishman's ya building happy, as simple as that sounds. We want them to have a

frictionless experience that leaves them happy. We want them to walk in with a smile on their face and leave with a smile on their face. If at the end of the day that is their experience, we know that we've achieved success. That's what we set out to achieve. I think about being able to enter a space where I can um even if I'm broker, even if I'm

an actuary, it doesn't matter. I think there's something really interesting about um upping the anti on creativity in spaces where it's almost um uh ambiid required an ambient and interesting maybe instead of the word creativity, which is so overused and I think quite deluded. This idea of culture

is really important. Like when when someone asks me what I do, or like, what my sweet spot is, I talk about the connection between culture and commerce and the interplay of those two things, and how one is no more important than the other, but they're so deeply integrated.

In their symbiotic relationship. You know that, like if you just have commerce and no culture, but you just have culture and no commerce, that you have to find the way to measure business interests with the right injection of the creative industries, but also find a way to commercialize the creative industries. That it better is everyone all for

the benefit of all. And I think that's the real sweet spot for us right now, understanding how culture is infused throughout our spaces to give that as you say, like it's such a perfect description of it. Actually like this sort of um, the ambient creativity or the ambient experience that is somewhat undefinable um by h deeply memorable

and an impressionable, impressionable, impressionable totally. It's really interesting to think about Rockefeller Center not as a space, but as an idea, an idea of Rockefeller Center, right, And and that kind of leads me to when you think about real estate, the transactional nature of it. I come there, I do what I'm doing there, and then I leave.

How are you thinking about that narrative continuing beyond my physical interaction and moving As I said, the idea of Rockefeller Center, how does that start to move horizontally as opposed to vertically. I don't necessarily focus on why you're coming. I focus on what you need when you're here, So

that sort of pre and post transaction. Like you're talking about if you're coming to the office to work, or if you're coming to Rockefeller Center to buy something, or if you're coming to Rockefeller Center to ice skate, we'll see the tree. Whatever your intention, what can we provide that entertains you and surprises and delights you, that perhaps encourages you to stay. How important has pushing yourself into UM different communities been important to the success of your job?

And I'm leading I'm gonna be very specific about this. You surround yourself UM with a lot of different people UM from with a lot of different backgrounds, uh, and I think watching you from the outside that's been beneficial. Talk about how important that was to the success of you in this role and also maybe reimagining UM spaces and places in a different way. That's such a good question. I think to truly provide the people, you need to have empathy and you need to just listen. I think

I've always been a very deeply culturally curious person. My dad was a contemporary dancer, my mom was a photographer. They started a building company so they could afford to send us to school, but they are like deep passions were the creative industries, and so it grew up in this house that cared a lot about that and didn't care a lot about business. So I always I was always really fascinated by like how businesses then tap into that world. But for me, this culture of curiosity has

always stayed with me. And I also think that like to truly understand culture, you need to just be in it and you need to listen. If Rocket Feller Center is the epicenter of so many industries, right, the aperture of leaders that you're interacting with has to lead you to I would imagine down so many different paths and the clashing and colliding and collapsing of industries to create

unparalleled experiences. That's where it gets really exciting. The opportunity to reimagine whatever that looks like because of this, because of these collisions, these creative connections. And I think I m because I've always been so deeply culturally curious. I've always tried to have my finger on the pulse or at least be familiar with familiar enough with it to understand like what's moving the needle and what's cool. I have always like, I think one of my special skills,

one of my superpowers, is like understanding what's cool. And way way way back, that was like my entry point into that was through events, and I was working with these agencies and I was working in house places and it was always described as like experiential experiential events, remember when that was a thing. But I would be the one where someone would say, like, Okay, we're a top shop and we want to do this pop up event.

What happens there? And I would say, okay, like let's get this designer with this artist and this musician and

we'll do a collab. And at the time it was like just you know, it was experiential marketing, but that evolved into programming, which is now like a whole thing, which then becomes I mean, I guess my role um The I think the hard part for me is um as my jobs get bigger and bigger, and as my personal life gets smaller and smaller with like two kids, in managing that, keeping up to date on what's core and keeping up to date with those people in my

life that are so talented, those multi hyphenite creatives who have always defined culture and have always has been at the forefront of what is new and next. And I've always taken such inspiration from the creatives that I surround myself with. And the biggest challenge that I have in my day to day these days is just keeping up

to date and keeping in touch. And I think as we get so overwhelmed by content, I'm constantly being served stuff and it's not actually the stuff that I want to see, and like making the time to you know, actually reserving the time to keep in touch with those people and to make sure that you're reading about those next chapters. And um, I think that that's where the magic wise. But it's also the biggest the biggest challenge for me personally. I mean the Samford Biggers Commission that

we launched this year, the Cause Commission too. I mean this year Rockefeller Center is going to have the first campus takeover by a single artist in the center's history with the Stamford Biggest installation and exhibition that we had in May, and we've also got an original Cause sculpture with a full exhibition, a campus wide exhibition by Brian and for Rock sent to be sort of bookended by

Sandford Biggs. And cause that isn't just because like that's not just me, That's not just that's that's a whole world of creative people who recommending and connecting and you know, lunches that and from the Brooklyn Museum and I are having over what she's doing and what's coming up and how we can partner. I think too often agencies especially come in with a deck on culture, come in with

a trend stack. But I think the big distinction here is that again, you have to be a practitioner, you have to be in it, you have to force yourself. It's easy to default to the deck, right, It's easy to default to the deck. But I think that more and more marketers um because they came into this industry through something that was creative, through something that they found

that they could either make or influence or do differently. UM. I think we forget sometimes that we're practitioners of creativity, even if you don't see yourself as a creative. And so really pushing the bounds of that network is so those relationships I think too like I would never. I can't design to save myself, like I could never make a flyer. I can't design a thing. But my sweet spot has always been people and spaces. Places and people,

and you know how those two come together. And I think that is really like how artists and communities connect. Like that's always just been my sweet spook. It's something that is hard to do but required. I think, yes,

I agree. And also the applic cation of trends, where as you were saying, they're authentically New York in the case of Rockefeller Center, So knowing what the trends are is one element of it, but knowing what to pull down and how to apply it so that it is relevant to your business or brand objectives is a whole you know, is the art of it. You know, I'm so excited at what the future holds for Rockefeller Center.

For the first time in my career with Schminspire, people are coming to me with recommendations and people are telling me that Rock Center is a cool place to be. It's just starting now and it's such an exciting time and it's the really hot It's the result of like three years of really hard work from a whole team of really smart people. So before you go, um, we

have a game that we like to play. But before we get to the game, as somebody who keeps their finger on the pulse of pool, what's the polish thing? What is michaela paying attention to? Oh my god, that's so hard. Um, there's an amazing collection of downtown artists who are doing this beautifully ambient figurative oils oil work and like all of a sudden, like this sort of the abstract paintings that were so hot and so hip

not a thing anymore. Still, life's still lives with a new thing and they're amazing, and there's a few artists and I'm some I'm like relatively like quite obsessed with them. I think that's really interesting. That's still lives are the cool new hip thing. Yeah, I mean, why do you think Because for the last eighteen months, because we've been stuck, baby, we've been stuck at home, and we'll be forced to

the same thing. The big thing I think at the moment is around food, because, um, particularly in New York, if we're like hyper focused on New York right now, the resut industries just went through the most challenging time and so many of those independently owned bars and restaurants had to close, and there's a lot of space that is begging for reinvention, and a lot of the chefs and cocktiliers and bar owners in the city are trying to repurpose old space with new concepts. And it's a

really exciting time. And there's a few restaurants opening and a few pop up concepts opening in the next couple of months that I think are going to really redefine the dining experience in New York for um the next handful of years. And that'stuff. I'm really excited to see where that goes and how like how the city engages with that. Are we going to see Rock Center in some kind metaverse like Umn Fortnight Fortnite? I wish the

Fortnit me back? Oh there you go Fortnite, because I will go to a show at Rock Center in fortnite all day long. Watch this space, Watch this space, space, watch this space. Okay, done, I love it. Before you go, Michaela, it's time bye bye bye. What is Michaela buying? Buy? What are you saying? Bye? Two b y e? And what are you doing yourself? Be? Why? What am I buying far too many clothes because I had nowhere to go, and now I have places to go, and I am

dressing for the occasion. What am I saying goodbye to? I think fear Honestly, I've had enough of it this year. I'm saying I've had enough. I'm not fearful anymore. Let's just do this thing. And what is by Michael Okay. So, I recently launched a forum for executive women called Other Company, which is really just a place for executive women in leadership roles to exchange advice, get a pay mentorship, provide guidance,

contacts and so on. And it's been really exciting to see the combination conversations and some of the connections that have taken place on that platform. And I'm thrilled so far. And we've got such an engaged collection of really accomplished, such clever women. Where are you doing it? It's on Discord. It's by invitation only, uh, but you're both invited. Thank you, Thank you. I love it, Michael. Always a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for coming by, Thank you

for coming. We look forward to talking to you on Discord. Thank you so much. Such an honor. What a show. Yeah, this is not about marketing in the vein of leasing. This is about moving to marketing for longevity, no short term leases. How are we thinking about lifetime value? And lifetime value requires input from our customers, from our consumers, from our fans. How are you thinking about that universe?

And more importantly in an area I know you are super passionate about, how do we move from I'm transacting in that space too. Now I become a shareholder of that our contributor owner to that space. You know, when we were talking offline, Laura and we have talked about this for years, and sometimes I like blow it off because I'm like, oh, we've talked about that, Like we've been there, done that, not just publicly, like between us,

you talked about physical versus digital. We are about to see an explusion on what that means and how it's redefined. Can you imagine a world where the ownership of Rockefeller Center digitally is now owned by a few dows, d aos decentralized autonomist organizations. There is decentralized ownership that is coming of pretty much all things. You know, everybody talked about the Internet of Things. It's really the decentralized ownership

of all things. And I truly believe in it not only as an organization, but I truly believe in it as uh like spiritually philosophically. I am aligned to this. What I think is really interesting is that, for example, tishm Inspire creates a DOW or opens themselves up to creating a dow where they share ownership of Rockefeller Center and they completely reimagine Rockefeller Center as a digital experience. They have different stores, they have different places to hang out.

And I'm not going to go into the metaverse here. Yes, this like absolutely hints towards metaverse. Let's just like leave met because that's like a whole another that's a whole another verse. But the point is is that all of a sudden, if you have artisans, creators, technologists, business people reimagining real estate quote unquote real estate of the digital world, and they have ownership over it, you're going to see

such innovation like we have never seen. In the last couple of years, there's been a lot of innovation in real estate and selling, but it's still around transaction. But when you start to reinvent space, community and commerce in a digital world with a legacy asset that gets exciting, So you're pumping me up. I'm thinking about the digitization

of Rock Center. Isn't this arguably why marketing and the role of brand positioning, the importance of north Star is so important because now when I think about the digitization, it isn't necessarily about how do I utilize the physical space? Who are the retailers that are coming in? But MICHAELA talks about one of the core pillars being authentic New York. The I P is not the buildings and the physical footprint, it's how is this a convening space for authentic New York.

My hands are flying right now. You can't see me Atlanta, but they're flying because it's it's really interesting to think about physical transformation digital transformation. But at the end of the day, is it as signing role of positioning, of value of before it is least the space. And I think because MICHAELA was talking about history Workeley and I suppose traditionally in the real estate market, marketing sat with the leasing office. It was collateral with promotional materials to

get a retailer into said building for self enablement. Yeah yeah, but by bringing this further up the funnel. Now, all of a sudden, the real estate is a convening space for all things authentic New York. Yes, exactly, And it's a proof point for that positioning. And if your proof point is true, it is understood, it is shared. Right. This is comes down to like who are you? Why do you exist? This is why brand matters. By the way, this is why brand matters, right, Like who are you?

Why do you exist? All of a sudden, if you start to define that and apply that with lots of different minds investment, innovation, etcetera, the possibility of the scope of that thing completely changes. It's just a really interesting mindset shift how marketers can be thinking less about leasing and more about longevity. Rock Center today is a place

that people go and visit. Rock Center tomorrow could be a place that exists everywhere to everyone, for everyone where they are think about that authentically New York everywhere, Authentically New York and Shanghai, authentically New York. Blah blah blah blah blah. But these are places and spaces that I know you and I are really passionate about, and we're

going to continue. Actually, I think to hone the show more towards this, and that's why I think that the whole emphasis on physical transformation digital transformation is transforming the output. But I think what we're suggesting is we need to do more diligence in thinking about the inputs and where those inputs are coming from and who owns them and how they shape them. And then it's no longer the transaction by cell, it's the I'm here to have a

conversation and iterate over time. I was part of a conversation last week that got me pretty fired up around the state of marketing and um cmos and defining their roles, and like everyone's writing about this, like is the CMO the c x O? Now this the chief commercial officer? Who is the CMO? I don't care who the CMO is. One thing I know is that marketing and marketers have got to stop managing and have got to start being a practitioner. This whole show was built on that idea.

Now more than ever, there are consumers that are doing your job, our job, better than we do. This is not a drill. This is not a drill. Why Because they're practitioners. They're practicing. So like MICHAELA. I look at as a true prac tisaner and instead of just thinking about marketing, she's thinking about the whole community inside, outside

and globally. I'm still bumed she's moving to Australia. She knows this, but I actually feel also at the same time really thankful that we got to know her, I got to spend time with her, and that nowadays it doesn't really matter where you are. Also a great reason to bring Atlandia on the road. Who knows, may people have a pop up appearance down under in Australia. Mikhayla wishing you all the best. But what a great conversational exit.

So many things that have implications on our industry, coming from tech, coming from web three, thinking about the future of ownership. Where do we go from here as marketers? These are all the right questions. I think the big message is you have to start thinking about your role in your company, for your brand as part owner. Laura hit it with the list of all of our friends and family and my heart who have been so good

to us and helped us get back on air. Big thank you to Bob Connal, Carter, Andy, Eric gayle Val, Michael Jen. We appreciate you, Thank you so much for this opportunity. We'll see you in two weeks.