BONUS: Crushing on Mika Brzezinski

featuring the one and only Miss Miko Prasinski. Mika is a co host of Morning Joe on MSNBC and really started a movement because she had a moment in her life and realized that she wanted to have a purpose driven career to help other women know their value. Yeah.

And while Alex, I mean we were originally enamored with her as a woman in media, I think what we found over the course of getting to know Mika and her story is actually what's it's beneath the surface or behind the esk, or maybe not behind the desk, maybe on the other side of the desk. Um is that Mika's experience things that are constant conversations that we have as professionals, and one that we find a lot of our friends having to in terms of knowing their value

and understanding how they evolve as a brand in the market. Also, I think what she says, and you'll hear this really interesting, is like, well, you have to have more than maybe just this right this being one thing, um, because you don't know what's going to happen, especially in the media and marketing space, like technology disrupt, networks change, there's acquisitions and mergers happening all the time, and without knowing your purpose to your point, you know, you have to understand

how do you evolve as your own brand. And there's so much of this going on, especially in the marketing world, where you're starting to see cmos jumping out and branding themselves, um, beyond just their business and starting to become influencers and movers and shakers that stand for something. And this doesn't

just apply, by the way, to our industry. I think that what we recognize, whether that's in news, whether that's in fine education, finance, Yeah, there's opportunity to find what it is that moves you and and reach out and do it. Right and find the white space. And so I think Mika story was one that we wanted to drop as a special episode. I hope you enjoy it. Enjoy. We are so excited to be in the booth today with the one and only Mika Brazinski. Hi, how are

you guys? Doing good? Mica? Everyone? For those of you who don't know, and if you don't, well you should, you should. Mica is the co host of MSNBC's Morning Joe weekdays six to nine am, and also the founder of the Know Your Value movement. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me on. My God, I'm excited, We're excited. Nervous. You made me think? Really, yeah, we made you nervy. Yep, that is an honor. Yeah, I always just in it. I'm gonna tell everybody that I was actually going to

ask you, like you ever get nervous? I get very nervous. I get nervous during things like this um when it's intimate and personal and speaking in front of actual crowds. But I love being on TV. I could do that forever. I sweat in front of crowds. I get flop sweat down my back. But I think, is it more like excitement, like anxious nervousness. It's a mixture of being nervous and feeling like everyone's looking at me and I've done something

dramatically wrong before I even open my mouth. Mixture of anxiety to do the right thing and to say the right thing and to get it all right, and then a mixture of excitement too. Do you talk about that? And Okay, so we're gonna go into like you're this amazing New York Times best selling writer. You have started this movement about women knowing their value by growing their value, Yes, I have. Do you think that men actually get nervous

the same way women get nervous? Like they don't, And they have a lot of qualities that we need to emulate, Like they are incredibly they are ridiculously overconfident that they are um. They lie, They lie like rugs. They don't even know they're lying. When they're negotiating, they lie unbelievably and they have no idea they're doing it. They don't remember anything, right, they forget everything. And that's an incredible

quality too, that helps them succeed professionally. So it's like men the first ephemeral media brand, right, It's also could feel like couples counseling right now, there's a lot of indicative of the conversation I had at my dinner table last night. Anyhow, So your brand, Mika Prasinski brand, we're really curious to understand coming out of CBS obviously now on NBC and growing up in the world of journalism now sort of spreading your wings into media company owner

for all intents and purposes. Can you talk to us a little bit about what that looks like from a vision standpoint and where you see no your value going. Yeah, when I was in you know, when I was fourteen years old, I wanted to be in in a TV news reporter. So I was very focused from the get go, and I started working at like the local cable Fairfax Cable Access. I did a TV show when I was sixteen called Eminem's Mika and Melissa Show, and we looked

at like teen issues. We made an open drive in my truck and like it was, you know, the beginning of you know, someone who was very focused on having a career in television. I worked at the networks and at local affiliates as interns during summers for free. When I was in college. I did a TV show on the cable access uh TV channel in North Adams, Massachusetts, on the issue of teen pregnancy because at that time North Adams had the highest rate of teen pregnancy in

the country. From then on, I worked my way up, had kids, got married, but continued to really drive at that career all the way to CBS News and sixteen Minutes, and at the height of it, I had two kids. I was able to bring them to work with me

at times. I had really successfully navigated conflating in a positive way family and work, and I thought I really had it down when I was anchoring the Sunday Evening News on CBS and one of my kids was under the desk and quiet, by the way, which was amazing given the child that she was um And I also had a contract to be a contributor to sixty Minutes and that was kind of like the plum girl job

of CBS at the time. And a year later, Dan Rather was taken down because of memo gade management was swept out and about six months after that, Katie Kuric was hired, and four days later it was called down to the President's office and I was fired on the spot, um, and I walked out of there very um heartbroken and stunned and shocked. Uh, my idea nity had been just swallowed out of me, taken away, sucked out of me, just just in a in a poof, and a lot

of friends disappeared, which is interesting too. Um. So to answer your question about where I go moving forward, I did kind of climb back into t VS right at the bottom. But I always thought, you know, we get fired from these jobs. These jobs come and go, ratings come and go. Jobs and TV are just not the future. And I'm gonna be I'm almost forty at the time. I'm almost fifty now, and I need to figure out what this all, what I can do with this, what

something good? And that's when I wrote the book Knowing Your Value a couple of years later, and it really kind of exploded in my face. I mean, the book was a bestseller. Women were coming up to me from all over the place saying, I read your book. I gotta raise, I read your book, I gotta raise. I read your book. I got the leave that I wanted to read your book, and I figured out my job and all walks of life. And that's what I realized that's what I'm gonna do after TV. That's what I'm

gonna do. It's not awesome feeling when you finally realize you're in control of that destiny. Lax and I have had this conversation many times about the impetus for this podcast and knowing what you're passionate about and you love and there's nothing that's good and it's so passionate using your voice for it, and it makes it the job actually more secure because honestly, if I if I if my TV job goes away, and boy, I've seen it happen.

I've seen my TV job go away in the snap. Uh, this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm building it now, but it would, it would happen regardless of the TV job, and it sort of makes everything that I do have perspective and I do it better because those TV jobs, when you know that they could go away at the at the click of a switch, you kind of are nervous about that and you behave in a nervous way and you make decisions based on that fear is you're

writing your own destiny. Yeah, absolutely, so you're doing this for yourself, right, But you're also doing it for other women. I mean it started as something that was personal. You saw you saw this like epiphany moment, right, And then the story itself starts with my own journey to learn to advocate for myself and how bad I was at it despite the success I'd had. I think we all are.

I mean, you know, we're all bad at it, and um, the audience is that I reach when I when I do a workshop event know your Value event, I usually have a room about five to seven hundred women from corporate vice presidents CEOs down to people at the very bottom, working in trenches or unemployed, and they all are nodding their heads about the same lessons we teach and tips

we give and advice that we hand out. Because I do think this is kind of a very innate issue that is going to be something that if women want to know their value and they want to communicate it effectively, they're going to have to work very hard on it. What do you think the future of women in media is. I mean, it's a really interesting time, and especially news journalism on air TV, talent, news anchors, those types of things.

One of the things we're always baffled by when we walk into many rooms, there's a lot of fabulous women that we meet along the way that are some of the most creative and inspired and passionate women in advertising marketing media. And we often find that when you start getting to the top, especially when it comes to talent conversations or it comes to executive decisions, the numbers start to thin out. Um very few times do we walk

into rooms where there's big female executives. I mean the chairwoman of and I say chairwoman Lindi Acarino of your network as someone who, aside from her shoes, she's one of the most fiercest women I know in the industry. But you don't see it as often as you like. Right until Alexas point like, where do you see women

playing a stronger role? Well, I think I see them as they learn to leverage their value with their with their words and actions, as opposed to let it being leverage for themselves or letting the decisions being made for themselves. I think we'll see more more women rise to the top. But it starts with a voice. It starts with understanding what it is that you need. It starts with knowing it's okay to ask It starts with knowing that it's okay if you don't get it and you have to

go somewhere else. Like I think, we personalize a lot of things, and we take offense to a lot of things, and we take inwardly a lot of the problems that we confront at work. And what I'm trying to do with the Know your Value UH brand and message and an actual playbook and workshops is teach women to understand the first thing you can do is start talking to your employer about all the issues that you're confronting. I mean, I just went through UM a workshop that we did

for Comcast, and we did financial management. We people raising their hands talking about the debt they were in talking about not understanding how to put away money and exactly we were answering the most personal financial questions ever and we got them to ask which is which was the permission that Know your Value gives women. I hate to call it permission, because no one's holding you back except for you, okay, And we need to teach you to

get up under the lights and negotiate for yourself. And I say under the lights because at my events I actually have normal women who really struggle with their value, make iPhone videos talking about the value that they bring to the table, whether it be at home, at work, at a part time job, looking for jobs, whatever. Who are you? What is it that you bring to the table?

Put it into words and put it on an iPhone video and send it in by the way, Realize how many times you delete that because you're terrible at it? And get better. And we pick five finalists and we made them even more better and taught them what they're looking for and asked them what is it the message they want to send. What is it that they want to get back and return? What is it they're looking for, what's their backstory that they can bring to the table

and off. In many cases, the pictures that we saw on stage were completely different than the pictures we saw in the iPhone video after really bringing out the essence of who that person was and teaching them to communicate it effectively, not just with the stories they tell and the words they bring to the table, but their voice, their posture, what they put on that day, how it feels, and how they present. And those things are hard. They seem simple, they're really hard. You put someone out of

the lights and you make them compete. And that is what a negotiation or an important meeting with your boss feels like. You are. Yeah, it's the same raw kind of oh feeling like oh my god, I guy, I can't ask, I can't well, and also like I think I'm gonna wing it. I'll just go in there and I'll ask them for this, this, and this. No, you can't do that. You actually need to prepare for this meeting, and you need to prepare for every part of it. You need to prepare for how it's gonna feel, how

awkward it is. How about doing some rolepill playing with someone, prepare for every potential What exactly are you are you going to say when you make that ask? This is going to be the difference between women leaving because they don't think they can get what they want and companies being able to retain great talent because they simply can give them what they want, which might be really easy at times. Women leaving versus women leading. That is my

new tex very good. That's like I like that for me. What's really interesting is you said early on, and it was the question we wanted to ask you, is that men actually play a really important role in how we think of ourselves in emulating them. You said that early on, and I think that's really important. Like, how have men played a role in your career path? How have you learned? I know, you know, you're really good friends with Joe. He's been hugely supportive, you know. Yeah, he has no

Actually with the negotiation of my salary. I went back to him several times after going in there, and I love this story going to what he likes. But yeah, I will. But let me back up, and just like when this all began and we were actually negotiating our very first morning Joe contracts. I was such a girl. And Willie and Joe were men negotiating their contracts. So I would be like waiting for my phone to ring, waiting for my phone to ring. Oh my god, Oh my god, Oh my god. Am I gonna get the job?

I'm freelance. I'm gonna get the job. I hope. I pray to God I'm back. Oh my god, I hope. Oh my god, my phone ran. Oh my god, I pretty deleted it. Oh my god. So and then William Joe Joe be like, now on this podcast, is there what's the FCC rules here on Joe be like, you know what, go fun yourself, okay, and then Nika doing an impression of Joe and then even hang up and I'd be like, was that her boss? He'd be like, but you just said that to And I'm like shaking

for his behavior. What's wrong with that? There's so much wrong but that's not even funny. And at the time I didn't know there's anything wrong with that. I was like, really like, what's wrong with Joe? Meanwhile, I'm like, where do I signs that? My name right here? Let me sign it four times for you, and please don't pay me enough. I mean, it was unbelievable. I was fully responsible. How many years ago was that? Uh nine? How much have you grown into or you're blessing them around now?

Because that's how That was the funniest thing about it all and kind of sad. And the thing about women is I was running the show. I was booking the show. I was holding the show together. I was the I was the glue of the show. I worked as much as William Joe more and I did not. But I was not able to communicate for myself, and I was too scared to take a risk and say you know what, go go stick it. I'm not coming unless you guys pay me. This is a good show. By the way,

I knew it was a good show. I was becoming like, um, a bigger uh you know deal in this business than I ever have in my life. And I could see it happening in real time and I didn't even think to leverage it. And you felt it inside grateful to be there, just amazing. I would I would love to ask Joe, what did you feel? I bet grateful? Would it be in the top ten choice of trust me? It was not. He's like, they're lucky to have me, And I should have thought that too about myself, because

they were. They had a big problem on their hands and our show was fixing it. Why do we one of the things that I think you're instilling and I think a lot of Maybe it's the result of the election, Maybe it's part of the women's movement, all this sort

of stuff. Alex and I are always grateful, This is the right time to use that word for one another, and having there's moments when I feel like I'm having that kind of day and Alex is like, tell them to go funk themselves or she's having that moment, I'm like, remember who you are. How do you see today? Post election? The rise of what we feel is intergenerational. It's not just about being a mentor, but it's about pulling each other together by the bootstraps and saying, get your ship together.

We're in this for the long haul. How do you see that community? You know? I think that's gonna I I witness and I'm writing two books aboutter and I'm witnessing a sea change about women helping each other and pulling together as exactly where it's at. I don't get mentors. I don't get the mentor thing. People who are your mentors?

A lot of people mentors. I barely survived myself. Some of the most successful women, some of the most successful women have said that recently, like because there was like I feel like I don't have time to I mean, but also I help a lot of people around me, whoever they are, I help them. I help women wherever I can go. But I don't consider myself a mentor. I consider myself sharing as much as possible and getting it done. I don't I don't get the whole mentor.

I guess there are mentorships that are valuable, but it is never really worked in my world. Pulling together very different. I think we see each other's value in a way that twenty years ago it was a dynamic that simply didn't exist. We were horrible to each other. Um. You know, I'm almost fifty. I started this when I was in my late teens. Let me just tell you it's different now than it was back then. We're not nice to each other. Back then, and we wanted to be the

only woman in the room. And now I'm looking in a room with people. I'd want to work with you. I'd want to work with you. I did. I would. I would feel I can get I get you get it. And I actually had that experience with you and I. You know, gosh, back when I was starting out, I just felt like I had to survive the women around me. But anyhow, Mica, shifting gears, I think one of the things.

And we'll just go into your your news world. Um, how do you see the democratization of news becoming more important? You know? You you sit up there every day and we always admire We talk about this all the time. Damn, she's good sitting up there with general Um. But more so our question goes into as more and more people are rise through the ranks, as these sort of credible voices with journalistic integrity coming from different places. I mean,

you said it again, you said it earlier. You're like TV who knows what's going to happen, right and planning for the future, like as this kind of sea of change happens where people are reporting live on Facebook and and they're not necessarily like trained anchors, right, Like, does that become confusing? Thing? Does that like what you know? That look like? I think it's very messy. I think

it's very disruptive. And I think that over time, competition will bring the right voices to the four and but it will look very different, and it should. I mean, we're not going to ever go back to three networks going on TV at six pm. You know, We're just not. It's different. It's everywhere, and it's voice, and it's credibility, and it's the story and it's the person who emerges. But that person is going to emerge out of places you and I don't even know about right now. And um,

credibility is going to come in different packages. But you know what, you can't beat credibility. You can't pretend to be credible. You either will build an empire, a media empire that is, and it will run the ship of media, or you know, you'll fall apart and explode and become fake news. I do believe that the tenants of journalism have to be held close, and you know, they're easily if someone is not credible or something is fake news, it's easily undermined by the system itself. It will be

very messy for a while. But I think we'll agree with that. Well, competition will win. Yeah, I agree with that. Where do you think brands and advertisers can play a role like either today? I mean, this is a challenging time for brandson advertisers. It was a particular commercial that aired of late that caused some some ruffled feathers and we're going to be talking about talking about that a bit more on our show. But just curious to get

your perspective on where, Yeah, what Alexa is saying. You know, you see brand stepping in, whether it is with no your value, whether just quite frankly sharing their values in the and also supporting certain talent. I think you know, like, what is that? What does that look like from you from your I think it's all online. Um, I think that's where the money is. Um. And I mean that's where everything's going. And you know, boutique branding like our

show Morning Joe, We we deal. We have a specific audience. And even NBC itself is still learning to understand our audience and how to appeal to it and sell to it. Because they are higher educated there in New York, Washington, Boston, l A, Chicago, They're not necessarily the audience that of the shows that are on at the same time of ours that we compete with. So how do you advertise and how do you it's all get your news? Where

do I get totally gonna ask the same thing. Well, I follow on Twitter in the New York Time, Washington Post, you know, Politico. Um, and I'm on all day. I'm on my phone all day. I do not do Facebook. I just can't time, and there's just so many other things going on. Um, I need like oh my, So I put everything on a Twitter feed that's just serious journalism and just read the news as it rolls by and then everything is kind of shot at me by our staff anyway, So email and you know However, my

girls are my girl. My girls will send me stuff. Where do you see Morning Joe going If it's not on air, Oh my god. Um, if it wasn't, If it was, you know, I think I could see it going global. Um in in a media very kind of aggressive media empire that's thinking that way. And we've we've talked before about that that could happen. Um. It's just a couple of conversations we had over the years that it would. It would have a platform that's and you know, I don't know if that's good or bad for it.

I know that would be very good for know your Value someday to go global because there are there are countries that are already reaching out on that brand. Um. But from Morning Joe, where we really get Washington, we really understand what's going to happen next. You must watch and everybody around the world wants to know about that. So, um, I could see it being somewhere online around the world. Wow, going global. Thank you, Thank you so much for spending

the time with us. So that wraps our special Women Crush Wednesday edition of at Landia. Thanks Mika present Ski. Thank you at Morning Mika on Twitter. You can also watch Mika every weekday from six and nine a m. On MSNBC's Morning Joe. Don't forget to pick up her two books coming out later this fall on millennials and career reentry. And if you want to know more about knowing your value, go to k y V dot com. Thanks at Landia will be back with our regular episodes

next Tuesday. Full Disclosure. Our opinions are our own