One and a two,
and a 1, 2, 3, go. Woo.
yeah. It's gonna be another wild and wacky ride today.
I feel like, I feel like there is a, a, a palpable difference when we record on Friday versus Tuesday. Like, I feel like by, by Fridays we have no foxes left to give.
Yeah. Yeah. You have a very interesting topic today, Alison. You know, we, we have had such fun, so many fun guests this year already. And we have been talking nothing but going to GenCon and and all these other things. Um, and you were like, Hey Matt, is there anything else?
Do, do, we have personalities outside of ADHD and D&D? Uh, my hypothesis is no, personally.
Okay, so that's the hypothesis. You have a hypothesis, and we're going to test this theory today on the ninth episode of the second season of ADHd20. Which is a podcast where find the intersection between ADHD and TTRPGs
Yeah.
That's it. And I'm Matt.
Oh, right. Hi, I'm Alison.
Hi Alison.
Hi Matt. Uh, but before we get into the topic and how, and how I came up with the topic, Uh, which is a story in and of itself. Why don't we, oh crap. I don't have my D 100. You would think after 20 something episodes of this, we would be prepared for our own podcast. But we're not. Oh, God. Dopamine, yes. So good.
Okay.
You wanna go first?
I will go first on the ADHd100 table, lovingly crafted by you and our friend Fitz. Um, I rolled an 89.
All right. 89. Uh, what is one viral trend that you have participated in?
Wow.
I love that I get to ask the ultimate hipster who hates conformity, what viral trends you have participated in.
Oh boy. I feel like you as our marketing social media maven master, would know better than me because I've tried to think. Okay. So I'm, I'm assuming that it, extends to like TikTok dances and, uh, ice bucket challenges. I did. I've done neither
All
things.
All of the things about the internet you hate the most. Exactly.
Oh
the way, in case anyone's curious, I have done both of the things that Matt just
That I just mentioned. Yeah. I am stumped. Hold on, hold on. There's gotta be something. I'm, I'm not trying to be cool. I promise. I'm genuinely trying to, okay.
I stumped Matt.
I think you stumped me. I really do.
I feel like even as it relates to maybe when we were like social media-ing together for Jump, we would do like, Man Candy Mondays and Woman Crush Wednesday posts and we did Throwback Thursday stuff. We even made up our own like hashtags.
Go to Hell Tuesdays.
Go to Hell Tuesdays, everybody's favorite.
Uh, when, when these apps first came out, I did take an occasional picture of coffee or food.
Oh yes. Yeah. You do your green posts on St. Patty's date.
I do, I dye my food on St. Patrick's Day and then take a picture of it.
Okay. There you go. See, see? Beautiful.
God, that was hard. I'm sorry. I'll try to do better. I'll try. Please. Anybody listening, give me a viral trend that you think would be suitable for me that I wouldn't, you know, turn my nose up uh
Oh, uh, Out your comfort zone, sir. Even if you will turn your nose up, it'll only make you stronger. Please, Discord community. Give Matt all the viral trends you would like to see him participate in. Our friendship has been all about you pushing me out of my comfort zone.
Truth. Yeah.
I think it, I think it's time.
Time for, for, me to leave the nest. Okay, we'll see, uh, to be continued. Alison, what did you roll on the d 100 table?
I rolled a nine.
I think we've gotten this one. Yep, we have, so the only choice that you have, if we do our above or below, is, um, above, actually,
All right. let's go up.
Let's go up number 10. Number 10. Uh, if you could play only one D&D class for the rest of your life, what would it be and why?
I feel like that's very similar to what I also know I've answered, which is, which is my favorite.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
And here's it's, you know, it's gonna be a caster because I just feel like playing a brute, and maybe this is where I need to grow, right? Like, maybe I should commit to, I, you know, I, I'd be a barbarian and see how many different ways I could play a bruiser. Maybe that would be more fun. But I feel like if you choose some kind of caster, the possibilities to me in my brain seem more unlimited.
I mean, even in the number of times I've played Sorcerer, for example, I've played different flavorings and I ch tend to choose my spells accordingly. So like I just played a Clockwork Soul Sorcerer last night. And I made sure to choose spells that were flavored for her kind of specific level of mind control, cuz she's all about like telekinesis and telepathy. Versus like I think of Cora, my Storm Sorcerer, whereas she's more about controlling the elements.
And then of course there was my first Sorcerer, Lavinia who was all about fire and burning stuff to the ground. Fire. Fire.
It sounds like Sorcerer is the answer, sounds...
But I don't think it is. I'm not, I'm saying like a caster, because I think that's the answer everybody's expecting me to go for. So now I have to be a contrarian. I think it would be Druid. I just think that they're tanks and they're wildly interesting to play.
Mm-hmm.
And so if I had to be gated to one, it, the, the first two that popped into my head were Monk. And Druid. And I think I'm gonna go Druid.
Okay, man. Interesting and interesting. Well that was fun. Uh, stumped me and then you surprised me.
And then I surprised
Stumping and surprising.
Um, alright, so today's topic. So let's, let's, let's back this train up and, I'll tell you how I got here. So first of all, I recognize for any of my friends and family listening, understand that all I talk about is D&D. I am so unapologetic about this.
Good Good, good, Good, Mm-hmm.
I don't want to talk about anything but D&D. Uh, I love it. Uh, and I'm gonna continue loving it for a very long time. Um, we kind of touched on this with the Dungeon Coach last episode, um, about starting to like ponder what is it about D&D? Why was this the thing that we just all gripped onto?
And I have so many hypotheses there, but as I was thinking about that exact question, I began to wonder, could I go a whole day or even just a whole podcast episode without talking about D&D or
Oh my gosh.
Just as I mentioned to you, like we're all about pushing each other's not boundaries. I don't feel like you've ever crossed a bound, but we are
Buttons!
Know, like. Buttons or, you know Yeah, we do push each other's buttons, for sure. Um... But like, saying like, Hey, let's, let's expand our comfort zone.
yes,
Okay. That's, that's what I was trying to say. And so in that same sense, like, should we get out of our comfort zones and talk about something else? And the reason I was thinking about this is because I just went on a very long road trip talking about pushing myself out of my comfort zone.
Mm-hmm.
I said yes to my first family vacation in over 20 years. And so I spent almost 48 hours with my parents driving from Charlotte, North Carolina to Freeport, Maine. I mean, the drive is only technically 16 hours, but with traffic and stops, It took us two days of travel to get there. This is one way that you and I differ. That's another topic we need to talk about one day is like we, there are a lot of ways you and I are similar, but there are so many ways that we are different.
And and like I love, I love a car ride. I love a road trip.
Hmm.
But what I know about, I now know I, I need to be very selective with who's in that car with me.
Mm-hmm.
Sorry, Mom and Dad, but you know, it's true. And I, I, I also just really love solo car trips. I think I, I love my friends. I love you, Matt. I will do pretty much anything in the world with, with you, but I like, I think road trips with myself more than anybody else, which is weird to say out loud.
No.
Wonder what that is about?
I don't think you're alone. Yeah. I think there's others in the world.
So as I, as I was in the car, and there were many times in the road trip that I just had to put my AirPods in and just listen to music, so as to not have to talk to my
Wow. Just like a teenager. Just like a teenager, circa 16, 15.
So I had a lot of, I had a lot of thinking time. So
Uhhuh.
Uh, what, what is it about, you know, ADHD and D&D and, and, and what are some other things we could talk about?
Okay okay so here's the question. Did your parents tell you to stop talking about it? Or you just didn't talk D&D with them and then you couldn't, and then you were like, well, then I don't have anything to say.
Uh, I couldn't talk about ADHD with them. Uh, I, I haven't even tried with D&D because I know that it's so weird to them that I
Sure. Satanic. So Satanic.
Yeah. Well my, thankfully my parents aren't part of the Satanic Panic. Uh, but they wouldn't get it. They barely get my love of theater. So
Okay. Yeah,
the fact that I spent hours, you know, like looking into a screen at my friends pretending to be anybody other than me, they would just, they wouldn't get, and I feel like, honestly, I feel like that's the case for a lot of my friends.
Yeah.
Probably some of my friends listening to this podcast right now are like, love Alison, but I don't freaking get it.
So as I've mentioned before, I do use Marco Polo to stay in touch with certain friends, and a good friend named Mike Smith, who is big fan of the podcast. Yeah. Really loved the Dungeon Coach episode. And he said, I don't know the first thing about Dungeons & Dragons or role playing games, it's not my thing.
Uh, and there are plenty of times where y'all are talking, I just go, but he said, but what, you try to do is to, present topics in such a way that is at least a little bit inclusive most of the time. And in this case, it was the Dungeon Coach as a creator of piece of of work. He, he could have been a writer, he could have been a playwright. He could have been a, a number of things. The point was we were inspired by this man.
Who is, you know, taking a full-time, steady job and, and throwing it away, And, and then, you know, doing this thing. And, and Mike was like, I just want you to know that, uh, even though I don't know what you are talking about, it was still exceptionally cool. So my point being, uh, that I do feel this pain that you kind of, maybe, maybe it's not pain.
I mean, we are unapologetic about it, but another part of this podcast could also just be, um, talking about these things that we love in the way that other people talk about their loves.
Yeah.
In an interesting way too, right? but but your challenge though today is can we make a podcast that we don't talk about D&D?
It, it's interesting cuz that was, so that was the original idea, right? Is is what, what would Matt and I talk about for roughly an hour?
Oh.
If you took this away from us? But even as I was making the outline today, you know, uh, so I asked, I said, what did we love before D&D? Seriously? Like, what were our hobbies before? Because I think, I hope fingers was, you guys was I an interesting person, before? I'm not even saying I'm an interesting person now, but
Not at all. Not at all. Absolutely in intolerable
Button pushing.
You would talk. Okay. Okay. But here we're getting into something really interesting though. So as usual, I did not know where this was gonna go, but now I'm starting to see something. So we did used to speak about many different other things. And in fact, Bivins Brothers Creative, The BivBros Show, had you on as a guest a number of times, and we didn't talk about D&D back then, we talked about musical theater.
Disney and theater.
And Disney and theater. But I also knew about you that sports were a major, major part of your life. Sporting events, uh, football, football, I don't know beyond that,
I, I will go to any sporting event if you're like, Hey, I got tickets for a hockey game or a baseball game, or, I will go, but I do not follow anything other than football.
Right.
just so you know. But you're right. I, I forgot And because I did, I, there was season, I live in Charlotte, North Carolina. I am from Birmingham, Alabama. They are six hours apart without Atlanta traffic. Atlanta traffic, god bless you. I once, when I first moved back to Charlotte from New York City, I can't believe this, this, this feels like another lifetime. I had season tickets to the University of Alabama games, which is like seven and a half, almost eight hours from Charlotte.
So I was driving to Alabama twice a month to go to football games.
You've just described one of my visions of hell.
I.
described one of the most horrific things
I'm about to make it even worse. I'm about to take your hell and twist it.
You had to go on a bike. You were riding
no, no, There's football, there's driving and then there's more football. So I would get in the car on Friday, I would drive to Alabama. I would get in sometime late Friday. I would spend all day, cuz Saturday down South, man, is an all day affair. It does not matter if the game is at six o'clock at night, which when you're Alabama, you're in primetime. We would do things all day celebrating our love of our team. Roll Tide. Okay. So that was all day Saturday. Right. And then the game.
And then I would get up at the butt crack of dawn. We're talking like on the road at 4:30, 5 AM so I could be back in Charlotte in time for a Panthers football game whose kickoff is normally 1:00 PM on Sunday.
Oh.
Oh my God. So a, I like, I didn't remember any of this. It's like it was out of my brain and suddenly you just like unlocked this box that I forgot I had. And yeah, I was that hardcore about it that I would, oh my god, I totally forgot about that phase of my life. Okay.
So I like, I like that. And, I just added something to, to the concept of this podcast. You've named sports and we, you know, we could talk about theater as well. Mine, at one point music. Playing music, um, being in a rock and roll band and or even in Chicago playing with many talented musicians here, doing theater. There was a time where I was a full-time actor, which was super fun.
And so, so one question that I get all the time, which you probably get some, some version of it, do you miss playing music? Truthfully, honestly, I do not. Do not. I'm not saying that that won't change. The other thing is I know that, certain things are going to be a part of you, right? But do I miss it like being my full-time gig? No, I do not. I do not miss it. I will always be a musical person. I will always have these instruments ready to go. I love being on stage. I know that I do.
I think I'm pretty good at it. And I feel like, there's things about being in a play that I really, really, really, really loved. But do I miss being on stage right now. Right now? I don't. In the pandemic, this thing came into my life and it filled These creative drives, social drives, so on and so forth. And I say those things, they really do feel true for me.
I've gotten that too because, so I, I majored in theater in college. I stuck around Charlotte for a couple of years afterwards. Did as much community theater as I could. Then I moved to New York to make it big time. Spoiler alert, I didn't make it big time. Took classes was in a couple like little bitty things, but kind of realized early on I didn't, first of all, I hate auditioning.
And that if you're gonna be a professional actor, uh, if anybody's listening on the cusp of wanting that auditioning is gonna have to be a part of your everyday. But really went for the experience. Right. And was lucky enough while I lived in New York, I mean theater, there was the thing that I ate, slept, breathed, you know, my first job in New York was for Broadway.com.
Uh, I spent the last several years working as a hotel concierge where I got to talk about my two great loves theater and food. So I was very much ingrained in it, and because of that was constantly going to see shows on someone else's dime. I, I totally lucked into those roles to get to get that. So, I mean, there would be weeks, especially when like the seasons were just starting. I would be at the theater four or five nights a week.
And I remember when I moved back to Charlotte and people said, oh where are you gonna get back into theater here? And I, it just, even the thought of it exhausted me. But I was fortunate enough, one of my first jobs back in Charlotte, I worked for Muzak. Yes. The elevator music company as everybody knows and, I still don't know how this happened actually, but I somehow wormed my way into being a voice talent cuz they do lot of like the voice on hold or like the in-store messaging.
And so then I was, I remember answering that question with like the, everything's a stage, right Matt? Like this is our stage now we are performing.
well, I realize every time we go to a convention, I realize every time we play Dungeons & Dragons for 16 hours a day, it feels more to me like music was at one point in my life uh, that kind of like, oh, I want, I want to see how far we can take this. You know? And, you and I have talked about how this particular passion, it's just so, it's so broad. There's so many people.
And I think that's also sort of an, an analogy to music in some ways where I do have a, I do have another dream of just playing Irish music in a bar wherever I land at like a 75 to 80 years old. Just I think that will happen to me someday, cuz I love that music. I'll go back to it. But, right now, this is a thing that I would, I would, I would, I would fight through fear. I'd fight through discomfort. I would fight through nerves. I'd fight through difficulty.
Because, because, we said many times, being a dungeon master is an enormous amount of work, or it can be.
Mm-hmm.
Doesn't bother me. Um, I'm willing to put in the hours and the work for it. So yeah, I don't know.
We're, tiptoeing dangerously close to the, we're talking about D&D line here, Matt?
I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Did, Did I go too far? Did I Go too far. Okay.
I, I,
right.
yeah,
I think, I think this is what we're doing first. This in so many ways has replaced, other major, major passions in in a very hardcore way. So, especially if you're new to something, but especially if you are trying to make it a bigger part of your life. Yeah. You get, you're annoying. It's the, it's the join, It's the first, you know, year that you're in that cult. Right? Like, you, can't talk about anything else. And you, you know, you do drive your friends insane, Right?
I'm trying to find, and this, this is where I will now tiptoe dangerously close to the line of like, what's the common thread? Right? But one, one common thread I know about that we've talked about is my, uh, penchant for, uh, fan girlness over whatever it is. And I think the common thread there, and this may have nothing to do with neuro spiciness, but is the almost interactive aspect of it. So obviously when music and theater were a part of my life, those were things that I was doing.
I was singing or learning an instrument or performing on stage. Right? It doesn't get much more interactive than that. Same thing with like the voiceover work and stuff like that, but even in sports, if you listen to the the little anecdote I told at the top of this, I was actively being a part of the community. I wasn't just walking into a stadium going woo and wearing some colors and walking back out. I was spending an entire day in celebration of that thing that I loved.
Hopping between tailgates and trying to get on camera for, you know, ESPN. I guess what it is, is I just have to be the center of attention. I have to implant myself in all of the, story. Oh, no, That's not, that's not a good side of myself to see.
I don't know. if depends on, on how you take it. It depends on, on where you're going with that, right? Like, can you be a center of attention, but then also, be surrounded by people that you love and share that attention at the same time. Can you, can you revel in other people's wins? Can you allow
Mm-hmm.
The spotlight to shift from you to other people? I'm feeling for you, the, the analogy is far more sports than theater or, or anything else. It really sounds like it more because here's, Yes,
And I'm a combat gremlin. Like, I, I love the competitiveness. The trying to beat something is the aspect of D&D that I keep talking about over and over again.
Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. All right. So here's, here's my last, here's my last thing about this, and then we can really try to talk about things that we're also into, uh, another reason that this feels different special is that when I was a musician, when I was an actor, I never felt like I belonged. Even in my own band, I did not have an encyclopedic knowledge of the Beatles or any band. I didn't care that much about history of music. I liked new music.
I liked, I liked performance of music as an actor. I have some really, really dear friends that are great actors, and I can hang with them, but there is a game. I don't know. I don't, I don't get it. Right. I don't get it. I didn't, so both theater and, and music, I always felt like an outsider, I wasn't doing a bunch of drugs. I wasn't having sex with a lot of people. And this, when we went to Gary Con, I was like, Oh shit.
I belong
These are our people. These are our people. I get them. I get them. Right.
I know we make a point to not talk too much about the rock band years. Um, but interestingly enough, on last episode of ADHd20 with Alan, when the, the, topic of like, what is it about this? Right. And I said something about like, like, rarely do I know so immediately that like, I've found my thing and, and every time that I've known immediately, like this is my thing. I, it has been like, I've not not been wrong.
All right, so for whoever has woowoo uh, manifestation on their ADHD 20 bingo card, uh, To kind of go back into, we went through a few episodes back about like our core values exercise, right? And like, get like the meat and potatoes of who we are and what influences our every decision. And in doing this exercise to find my core values, I found seven. One of them was community.
And I, to exactly what you were saying, like one thing I've noticed that the things that I am immediately like this, is this is where I belong.
Yeah.
So the one before D&D was Jump, Little Children and its community where I knew the second that I saw you guys both as a band and, and meeting all of the people like this is, this is a sense of belonging. This is
For me, too.
Island of Misfits of, you
And I built that. And I
You did, You were the architect.
I was an architect that built it in the, what, what did God do? He built it in the, in the man, in the form of his own. What is it?
In his own image, he created a man in his own image.
I created, I, I, nurtured the, that community in the listserv, to be people that I would wanna hang out with and who I was, that I wanted to be with. And somehow that worked. And so I get that. I really, really do. It was the community all along, and now we are in a, a similar, loving, caring, understanding
Have I ever told you? The reason that I started liking football specifically? It, I just, it all ties back in here.
Okay.
You know, growing up in Alabama, you knew from a very young age we're talking toddler right? If you were gonna be Alabama or Auburn, and like, that's how your, your weekends were spent worshiping at the altar of college football.
Wow.
And it was the only time that I was welcome to scream in the house. I learned really quickly as a little kid,
Oh man.
I could yell insides and I felt accepted
Oh my God, that's so.
My own, loud-mouth skin.
Oh.
But it's
That's so sad.
But it, it's not, it's acceptance and community. Right? Like, I was it like any of those, those points in your life where you feel okay to come as you are, and just be, are always like, you know, signpost moments throughout your life. And I vividly remember if I yelled in the house six other days a week mm-hmm. But if I yelled in the house on Saturday because somebody forced a turnover, green flag.
Good job. Good job. Wow. I love that. Really love that. Wow.
You're getting a really inside look at my life at this one.
That, yeah, man. You know what? That's a perfect cap, I think for this, for this topic. I get it. It's, it's community. So we, we, it's not like we, we shouldn't be so surprised, but, uh, I'm gonna go with you and just say, I'm going to remain unapologetic about it.
I'm so proud of us for having other other interests, but we can still love D&D the most.
We can, we can.
I'm gonna put this in the W column
Success. Okay. The W, the W, a sports reference! Wow. That was a good callback, man. That was good. And I never knew knew that was a sports reference until I moved to Chicago when I was 40. Um,
I'll go on record and say, that one of my goals is to get you to an Alabama football game. I'm not gonna try for Carolina Panthers, because
Yeah.
it could, first of all, I know how you feel about Charlotte, but like that's just a more sterile experience. But I think, I think that you would enjoy going to an old southern town and seeing like the history and the, cuz you're somebody who I think does like, appreciate a good tradition or ritual. There is something special about like game day food, uh, and just the celebration and the community of it.
So I am gonna go on record and say that one of my new bucket list items is to take Matthew Bivins to a University of Alabama football game.
I would love that. And, and, and I'll, I'll just say it's something that I would never, ever try to put together myself. I would never actively go to Alabama to do that. I would never go to to see the, a Panthers game in that way. However, if anybody is having a group outing to something like a Cubs game or something, that means a lot to them. You know I'm gonna be there and for that same reason that you, because I, I love to, people watch, I've never understood the, the, the rules of football.
So maybe finally someone's gonna like, maybe you'll finally yeah. Finally.
But Matt, you were, you were in marching band.
I sure was.
The whole reason that I know everything I know about football is because I had to in order like, because you have to know.
Mm-hmm. No idea what was happening. I, I did, ADHD, dude. And I didn't know I've, no, I did not know what was happening on the field. Never did. Not once. I just was there. I, I, I I moved where they told me to move. I, I played my sax. I, I did my little Michael Jackson dance. I had no idea what they were doing. You know, I would see the scores change. I'd be like, oh, okay, cool cool And I would just, no idea.
So I, I didn't march with my clarinet. I was on drum line. And so we had to know what was going on in the game because that dictated what we were playing and what we were doing. And we were doing things with like, the, the cheerleaders and our dance team were called Dorians. So like I had to know actively what was going on in the field in order to be... weird, that's, that's an
We just, No, we had a really, really, really good, um, drum major. We had an amazing drum major. And he was super fabulous. And just, I, I just, I never knew.
All right. Well, I, I did realize, you know, I hate on my hometown of Birmingham a whole lot, and I realize part of that's because I've never really experienced it on my own. And as an adult I associate it with, you know, childhood. right? But Birmingham has had a really cool, like renaissance. So I say we do like a, a weekend trip, don't stay with my parents. Like, just go to, to Birmingham as tourists.
Go down to Tuscaloosa for football game and uh, continue to push buttons and push ourselves out of our own comfort zones.
But we'll probably also turn that into a weekend D&D trip.
Yes, I'm totally okay for that. We're gonna find a spooky ass house in the bowels of Alabama.
That's most of them. Yeah, that's most them Uh, at least back in the day. anymore. Sorry, Tuscaloosa. Okay. Perfect. Oh my God. I, you, you always, you always make it happen, Alison. I don't know. I you always make it happen. That's very impressive. Uh, this was fun. I really
I did, I did come into this one with having my doubts, but also faith in the two of us that we'd we'd carve,
We can, We can do it. We Find the path cuz we're professionals. Don't forget everybody. Uh, well, alison thank you for being on my podcast.
Thank you for being up my podcast.
Yeah, you're welcome. It was a joy, a delight Until next time.
Yeah.
What, what is the song for Roll Tide? Go Roll Tide. They're gonna break your legs. Everybody coming down to the field. I'm gonna gonna run around with a thing. Made of Leather. Now I'm gonna throw it to a big ass uh, pitch fork on the other side of the field is this, am I close?
That ,you're, uh, it's, it's uncanny.
Right? I'm just making it off, off the top of my head. It's, it's pretty much exactly what they sing, right? Roll Tide. Come on everybody. Won't you please throw me the ball? I don't even, oh, God. Help, help. Oh god help.
You're, you're basically a clairvoyant. with
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I felt pretty close to God. Who made man in his own image.
Full of the callbacks today. Get
Get on the field Take off clothes, everybody, throw the foot ball all around the house. Let little baby Alison scream her guts out in public