The age of chimpanzees. I was a monkey. I will say this even though it's never the same. Always sound the same, we always look different. There's always like some editing tweaks that have to happen. This feels like coming home. Like, I know I've missed you. I know. Just the two of us. The two of us can make it if we try. what? One of the beautiful parts of ADHD is that even though I've experienced something before, experiencing it again feels like the first time. It really.
It feels like the first time? Yeah, it really does sometimes. Yeah. Watching movies again. And you love watching movies over and over, and I don't, but when I watch a movie and Lindsay's like, “No, we saw that one”, I'm like, I don't know that I did. You must have watched it without me. And then I just can't, I can't remember. And then there will be one tiny thing right at the very end and the climax. I'm like, I know who has seen this. This happened to me more times. Than I am comfortable.
And then and then you get into like an existential crisis of like, do I say anything? Because we've gone the whole movie and I just cut on, the last 15 minutes. Or do I just play dumb and be like, that was a really good first time I've ever viewed that fine cinematic feature. Yeah, I know, but yeah. So that made me want to go back to the beginning of ADHd20. I bet I would learn some things all over again. We would probably relearn some.
Well, you're kind of in luck, because the topic that I wanted to speak about today is definitely a re addressing of, of topics that we have gone through in the past. So maybe this is the beginning of of that journey for. You a better. I love this journey for both of us. let's do the one thing that we have consistently been able to remember every single show. Yeah. Since we.
And part of the episode with our sweet friend Tay, who we got to hang out with over the weekend to film the finale of The Adventures of Blood and Herbs Season one. for our bestie’s forthcoming podcast, I'm going to go ahead and say this publicly right now. Anna Fitzgerald is the number one fan of ADHd20 I, Alison Leigh Kendrick, and the number one fan of The Adventures of Bud and Herb. There it is. You will not unseat me. That will not unseat me.
Roll me that beautiful… What dice you're rolling with today, sir. What you got there today? Today? I've actually got quite a few options. Today I'm going to use my wooden dice. And I'm going to use my dragon scale dice. Oh, you're. You're mixing. I've never been mix and match. I've never done that before. Oh. That's dangerous. Yeah, I guess I shouldn't do that, should I? I think I love the energy I'm going to start inspiring me to, like, okay, this match sets. What did you get?
[sound of dice rolling] I got a 67. Okay. I love how the universe is always, always, always listening to us getting woo woo early today. We just had a conversation about like, how did people not know earlier in our lives? And today's question is what's your biggest ADHD AHA! moments in life? Yeah. Oh, the biggest one. Yeah, the biggest one. I mean, this podcast has made that so easy, but I really think that the. Okay a little bit of clarification. So by AHA, we mean.
Oh my gosh I didn't realize explains that. I, I think it's asking for me. Is there like a specific because it's saying the biggest AHA moment. Like is there a moment that you can think of. We've both lived a lot of moments where like you were like, oh my God. And that's masking. Or now that you look back, you were like, in that moment I was masking hard core and I wasn't aware of it.
Okay. Well, I guess then I should step back and say, I have told this story before, but my moment, the moment where I was like, oh no. Was when I was reading ADHD: A Hunter in a Farmer's World by Tom Hartman. Oh, I don't know. And I was I my roommate had ADHD and this was on our joint book shelf, and I just picked it up, started going through it, and stories started freaking out. What?
Yeah, I, I, I think I, you know, I say this a lot, but I, I, I very specifically remember literally dropping the book. In in shock and and knew knew that my life was changed forever. How about you. I know that I've shared the ones before about like finally figuring out how to tether my inability to do certain tasks by myself to ADHD from like, I need someone to come over and like, just sit on my couch and watch my TV while I clean the house. That's a good one.
Good one. You know, my inability to walk into a restaurant alone, my friends have to text me. Those are all big. Just glass shattering. But I think for me, the biggest moment around ADHD has definitely been around the conversations we've had about rejection, sensitive dysphoria, and learning. Because this is something like I was a highly sensitive child. I was always labeled melodramatic, overdramatic, dramatic, like. And I remember like, friends in high school and beyond,
like, why are why are you so much? Why just, you know, can't you just be a duck and let the water roll off your back? And so learning that this is that RSD first of all is a real thing. And I'm genetically predisposition for it with my ADHD was definitely my biggest like it's not yeah there's nothing wrong with me. This is just the neural pathways that information takes around my brain.
I think that's so big and beautiful. Yes, we at ADHd20, which by the way, is a podcast that finds the intersection between ADHD and TTRPGs. Yes, we believe ADHD in many ways is a disability. We believe this and we try to speak that truth. we do not feel that anyone should abuse this thing. So it's one thing to say my brain works this way. It's another thing to hide behind. Yep. My brain works this way.
Yes. And, it is oftentimes a very fine line, but I did just kind of want to say that because it does somewhat fit into the topic of today, but I think it fits into our personal voyages. Our fantastic voyages, if you will. Fantastic voyages that we that we want to understand and appreciate and use that understanding for forgiveness, but mostly for ourselves. Not to ask other people to. Well, I can't do that. Ain't engineers. Leave me alone and I'm not going to know what you want me to do.
Go to Hell. …that. we've talked about this. Could you not do your impressions of me on the episode? [laughing] I'm sorry. It's just an old habits die anyway, so I love that. I love AHA moments, and. Those are good ones. So we had a question chosen at random from a table of 100 talking about our favorite ADHD one moments. Yes. Leading into a topic of an AHA moment that you have both had and continue to have. Gosh, that's a good segue. Wow, master.
Full. Masterful. Yes. I have recently had an AHA moment. It's not like I have not been aware. That's what's so interesting about moments sometimes to me, there's always a part of me that knows, right? There's always a part of me deep down and it's like Yeah, that is a thing. And it just depends on how much I want to give energy to that thing or, or ignore that thing or forgive myself for that thing. This is something I've talked about before is my inherent ability and desire to learn.
That's really what it is at the core. I want to learn new things all the time. I want to experience new things. Now, this is not a surprise to anyone who has ADHD or anyone that's ever heard about ADHD that ooh, shiny or ooh, squirrel, ooh thunder. Or just like big crack just now. Oh, duh. Yeah. You're going to get washed away. Goodbye! Sea a voyage. fantastic. So, yeah. I get to be a Pirate apparently…yar! I go so the thing where.
Ooh shiny, ooh squirrel gets people with ADHD in trouble is, when you are actually able to wrap the concept of work around it, you can. Case. Is that right? Case. like the sausage casing. Yes. Just like sausage case in case. Basically, the thing is that I love learning. I love new things. I love software, I love technical difficulty. I spend time doing it. I brag about watching YouTube videos, not about Taylor Swift. No, there's nothing wrong about that.
But I watch YouTube videos on project management systems and database applications. That's what I do for fun and I take that knowledge and I say, well, this is going to apply to my work or this is going to apply to my game world building, or this is going to apply to anything in my life. Okay. And my moment recently was that that can often be misguided. In my world it's just what I want. What I want to do is what I like doing. I love doing that.
It makes work fun for me to think about new things and to come up with new things. And, and it's also a way that I find a community. Right? I love this app called Tana. It's incredibly complicated. I'm part of their slack channel. I have new friends that have ADHD and use Tana. You have? Yeah, and I've totally forgotten all of my old friends. Friends? No new friends. That I. See. Agreement or no new friends. So there are many benefits to this over tweaking this.
But this learning, this impetus, this limitless quest for knowledge nerdery. But the problems are that it can take time away from things I really want to do. Period. That's the bad news that I have to share with everybody today, that if you are similar to me, which you are blessed arc, because this does not seem to be an issue for you at all. And I'm so envious. If there's one thing I could change about my brain, it would be to have a little bit of that. My brother also has no need.
He can futz and tweak on lots of other things. But. But not in this way. So the story is that I was tasked to build a project management system for our team, and it has been half a year or more, and I still have not deliver that because I have rebuilt a notion. Project management system at least five times in the last six months. Yeah. And that's just that becomes a problem. You know, it's not like I do it all day, every day. And it's not like work doesn't get done.
It's really the issue with it really is that I have a whiteboard here of the things that I really want to get done, which is be a better game master. Put out more videos about the tabletop role playing games that I love. Make videos about software concerning tabletop role playing. But if I don't, if I'm just fussing with notion, it's it's me just wasting time. It's just wasting time. So I had this moment and I just said, oh my gosh, this is such a problem in my life.
And I just decided to get serious about it and get real about it. So that's what we were talking about today is just that feeling. Whether you have any of this, Alison, and also, of course, how that has applied to my being a game master and the tools that I use because recently you have introduced me to arguably the most simple virtual tabletop, Albert Rodeo.
And we used foundry yesterday and I was like, damn, I wish this was out there because I am clicking and cooking and clicking and setting up all this beautiful stuff. And it's not making it better for, for anyone. It's just not making any. It's not making it better. And I want to do the things. I mean, look, I've overcome a lot of this. Yeah. In the last two years since doing this podcast. Like I've overcome a lot of this need, but it's still there
and it's probably going to be something I have to fight. So. Do you think. Alison. I'll. I'll talk in my nice, soothing voice for a moment. Okay. Thank you. Welcome to therapy, Matt. I'm proud of you. These are big, important steps you're taking. I don't say that. I mean, I'm talking in jest, but I almost feel like I should have walked in here to, like, a banner, you know, like this is an intervention. Yeah. but but a self-imposed intervention, to be very clear.
I, I yeah, I, I was as I was thinking about this episode before we hit record, you know, there was a, there was an episode last season where Matt basically felt like I called him to the principal's office to have a word, please, Mr. Bivins. And I feel like Matt has called himself to the principal's office. I have, I have actually done I've called myself to the to the principal's office.
And and even though this is a topic that we have talked about one on one with our team, with this community, over and over again, there still is something new about this discussion to me today. And that is because you have said many times now that that my lack of desire to futz is something that you envy.
So I'm almost wondering if maybe the thing to do here, the thing that we're solving for is like how to pull us both closer to the middle, because I am so staunchly opposed to you that I don't even start. And that's also a big problem in and of itself. And I think that that my inability to begin and my utter just panic and shut down the. Yeah, during Stacy's, when I see a blank page.
Is. Just as deeply problematic as I'm going to flex and fonts and fonts and fonts forever because because at the end of the day, neither like the problem is we don't know what Dun looks like. We don't know what Dun looks like. We don't know what Dun looks like. We don't know what it looks like. So if I never start it. You know, and I never finish, you never finish it. Either way, we never get to check the box.
and that's that's problematic for ourselves as people, for ourselves, as teammates and for everybody that has to work with us and our our our team and our clients alike. It's interesting. Yeah, it's. And I've had a lot of conversations to that tune of like, why do these, like, seemingly small things just, like, shut you down, you know, and you just can't take and then I can, but I can do, like, other big things. you know. Yeah. So it's it's a problem.
I guess what we're going to. We're going to try and solve for it. okay. So, you know, I began that that little diatribe there in jest, but, like, I am proud of you. It is a big step that we do need to like, continue to go to therapy about these things. Yeah. and so even though that was a little like, you know, flippant approach to it, I mean it too. and. I am I am going to coaching and therapy about this. Yeah. And it is, it is, you know, my my, my coach who we who've all met Brittany.
She's a she's a gear, not a tool not to. And so when we talk about it, she understands it. Yeah. and but but her job is to try to just minimize it. And I think I think a part of it, too, is that it has been so long. Is that thunder? Can you hear. Me? it's. Like shaking my house right now. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. So if I. If you lose me, I lost power. Okay. Okay. I'll never lose. You know? But first I go back. Oh, well. But here's the thing.
Thanks in part to Brittany's help, I now have things that I genuinely care about a lot. A lot. You know, and I've narrowed them down to just a couple of buckets. Just a few buckets. Yeah. And. Wow. It's so loud. And I'm recording a podcast for God's sake. Come on. Rude. So rad. So, you know, the problem with me doing this now is that when I have been working on things I did not actually enjoy. Yeah. It was an escape. I'm not saying that's better. But I'm saying at least my brain was working.
At least I was doing stuff. I mean, if somebody walked in off the street and said, hey, buddy, I need a notion template for project management. Yeah. By end of day today, I got that. I can do that. That's wonderful. A lot of people can't do that. So that's great. But it's not helping my situation. And now. Now that I care way more about things in my life, I want to move forward. Way more than notion. Then I need to stop doing things like that. Or at least be curtailed. Or at least be hand-held.
Yeah. Had someone hold my hand to stop me. Or just check it before I record. Check before you record. And it's interesting because as you were trying your damnedest over the past honestly longer than six months because you start to know it's like here. It's like oh. All you are ever doing was trying to give everybody everything we ever wanted. That's all a simple request, like just just make four people with four very different brains.
Plus, futureproof it for anybody else who's going to need to put their hands in on and around it. Perfect, Matt. That's all. Why are you being dramatic here? but to that extent, to that end. That's why I love a template. That's why I always wanted a dashboard. Because in my brain, when I come to a screen and go, yeah, I don't know what to do. Like, I don't know where to go. And then I get, you know, about it. And so that was what I was always asking for.
So you were trying to, you know, and that's where Evan and I both kept saying, like, isn't there just like a template of this we can use? Like, why does it have to be built from scratch? Yeah. You know, but and things like that. So. Right.
And every single person I've talked to about this says that mentions that the, the thing my response is, I heard you and I went back once again to the drawing board and I pulled out pure notion templates, not even a third party, just pure notion branded templates. we're talking about notion here. If no one knows what notion is. just look it up. Sorry, we don't have touch. So if, like. It's out on and already. Sorry. Yeah, forget about it. But but, you know, it could be notion.
It could be tonic. It could be clickup. It could be literally. It could be. It could be foundry virtual tabletop. It could, you know, interchangeable. As far as as far as what we're actually talking about. Well, and the bigger question is how do for people with very different brains work together effectively and deliver things in a client facing world? That's ultimately the thing that we're solving for here. Yes. And that that is tough. That is tough.
But but the the response that I would give to people when they said, hey, can't you just use templates? I went out and I got these templates and I and I, I put them together. But yes, like you say, we've got content creation. We've got we've got things that heavily involve a calendar, we've got tasks we've got we've got a client project and then we've got a not client project. And how do they all fit together?
But but the even bigger problem for me was even if I had the actual ability to just hook together a few notion templates, call it a day, my love of watching people like Thomas Frank or this German fella named Matthias Frank, they're all named Frank. I guess I am. I'm not kidding. I know or or Ali Abdal or these, these people who are, like, putting out productivity. It is porn. I'm not the first person to say that it is porn.
And they've come up with beautiful, genius ways of using this stuff notion itself. Next week or a month later, or the month after is going to come up with a mind blowing new feature that will fix dozens of little things that that bug me. And it's always about that, isn't it's always about this, this. You get to a point and you're given all of these tools, but then you hit a little snag and it's just the snag that is it just it just drives me insane.
That is ADHD as well, right? That is the that is that is the the inability for me to use an an app that is not esthetically pleasing to look at or has a terrible user experience. I can't do it, I won't, I won't choose it, I won't do it. It's just how my brain works. And so I'll hit a snag and try to work and hack that snag. This applies to everything in my work life, and it definitely applies to Dungeons and Dragons. And it definitely applies to ways that we play
Dungeons and Dragons and other games. Right. I do it all the freaking time. Yeah. And so I have two choices. I can beat myself up, which I'm not going to do because we're not doing that no more. Not we're not doing that. We you're not doing people who are listening right now. You're not going to do that no more. We starting today taking that away. But that we we've done a lot better about beating ourselves up. And so that's wonderful.
But I could either do that or I can just say, look, let's keep the eye on the prize. How can I make things easier? How can I get what I want? And just learn to be okay with simpler things, simpler tools? I'm not saying I'm there yet, but I it's just on my mind so much these days. And I just would love to be on a journey. I looked up on the internet. What was my search? Why notion? Again, I'm not picking on notion. Notion is incredible. It is truly miraculous.
I have loved notion since the year it came out, literally, but for my brain is very hard. Why notion is bad for ADHD. 000, there's documentation on this so much. There's so much. Oh, and and I will say this, it is it is somewhat mixed. Okay. But the general I would say the first page page of Google results, there's one, 23456, seven out of the what ten in the list that are negative. But then there's some people who are like, I use notion to improve ADHD.
So I'm not saying that isn't isn't impossible, but I, I want to find that place. Yeah. Where I can have fun but also get get the job done and not fall into little holes. And so questioning our whys of things. I love, love, love that you kind of came into this with. Like I have this master list. I have the things that matter most to me. the one that you started out this episode talking about, like being a great dungeon master, being a great, you know, partner.
our kind of shared success with our business and with Pocket Dimension, all of those things. Right. Because when you can find the whys that can help you then. And motivation is something that obviously we struggle with not necessarily having or lacking motivation, but correctly distributing it. So that way we don't put all of our motivation in one bucket. I have realized, you know, you called this affliction, it's an addiction, you know, that's why you called it, you know, organizational porn.
And like I am the same way with like my addiction to social media and like it's a cortisol response. It is like the way that I am just, just trying any thing to dump dopamine into my system. Yeah. To feel better. Even though I know that it never makes me feel better. Scrolling on TikTok or Instagram or Facebook for hours doesn't make me feel more connected. If anything, I'm learning, it makes me feel less connected. So lately I've been trying to get to the root like so.
When I am scrolling and scrolling and scrolling, what am I really needing? Am I needing to be entertained? Could I get that same feeling through a book? Could I get it through watching a movie? Am I needing to feel connected to somebody? Is there someone specific that I'm lacking that connection with? Could I just reach out to them directly? you know, like all of these different things. So it makes me wonder what like, the underlying issue is here of this. It's not perfectionism.
I know that it is, but but the fussing, the tinkering, the like, you know, like, what is the underlying issue? And if we can solve for that here and now, right now, today, let's let's do it. Let's just let's just figure out what it is. But but that like but I say that to say that like I know I'm addicted to my phone.
I know that I am constantly looking at my phone and I'm wondering when I'm going to get a text or when someone's going to post something so great that I'm going to be the first one to share it, or that some new something is going to drop and I'm going to see it. Like, I know this about myself, and I am actively in a place right now where I am trying to kind of do what you're doing and lay down my arms, white flag up, surrender, because social media does interest me.
So it's just like this, you know, like, do I need to put like, you know, do I need to time timer myself there? I know people who have recognized an addiction to social media who have timers on their phone and so like, yeah, iPhone. Okay. You've now spent your hour a day on TikTok. You can spend no more. I have other friends who have just, you know, taken these apps off of their phone. So that way only, like in front of.
And I feel like I've been able to, to do that successfully in my life in other ways. But social media is just the one I keep coming back. So like it's tough. My name is Alison and I used to be a workaholic. I worked around the clock and was very cranky and very miserable a lot of the time. It was not a happy place for me to be in, and it was not a happy place for any of my loved ones to be in with me.
And so when I moved to exclusively working from home, I developed two or rules for myself that I have stuck by and that have served me incredibly, incredibly well. One I have to put on different pajamas and the ones I woke up in. I have daytime pajamas and nighttime pajamas now. Great, right? I can't go about my day in the thing that I woke up in. It's not healthy for me, and it just leads me down a path of, like, unraveling. Two I can only work in my office.
I am so delighted that now, thanks to you, Matthew, I have a desktop. This baby, it's not going anywhere and I can only work in here because I was at a point where my laptop just came everywhere with me and all over every surface, and it was never productive work. It was never it was never good work. And I was, as a result of me, like forcing myself to feel better by working hard. Look how productive I am.
I wasn't big, but I had that illusion of I'm getting stuff done because I'm always plugged in right? And so once I like shattered that and said, no, you're working hours are relatively 8 to 5, give or take. I'm a freelancer. Sometimes it takes more than that, sometimes it takes less. I get up in the morning and I come into my office. I do my work here and then I leave this room. I mean, that's even why I got rid of the bed that used to be back here, because that was my guest bed.
And I was like, no, this is officially like a dedicated space. It is only for working and creating content. I'm not going to share its energy with people who sleep here. not to say like, okay, well, I figured everything out, like journey done, but like, but I am speaking from a position of experience with this, that when I put those two rules into place for my work life, it made everything better because I was dealing with it from a very holistic way.
So it made my work life better, it made my personal life better, and those two things. So that's what I'm wondering here, is like, and you came to to me and, you know, kind of initially telling me about this and saying, like, we have to figure out a system where I, I am locked down, where I'm locked out of nothing, where. Yeah. And that's what we start to talk through is like, okay. Because right now the, the you guys have been listening to us talk about notion for so long now.
And right now we're at a decision point. Do we start with notion and the past eight plus months of work that Matt has poured into it, along with Fitz and along with it a little bit me and Evan like trying to get our bearings in there. Right. You know, and that was where earlier Matt and I were talking, I was like don't let's not baby with the bathwater. This situation like there's good stuff in there.
But I understand there it will always be the desire you know to to keep fussing or do we just go with something so dumbed down. Yeah that like we can't hack it. We can't, we can't, we cannot. But that because of its lack of basic functionalities in the year of our Lord 2024, you know, is going to make our life harder. Like there's already been gnashing of teeth and stomping of feet in the last week of using it, which is a lot. Yeah, we're not going to mention the app, but it is shocking.
It's there with literal teeth gnashing, like actual tantrums. Yeah. But it's glorious. And it's in unhackable, right? It's glorious and that's why I sort it out. So, so, yeah. So decision point that we'll make as a team. But then, like, I guess this is your homework, Matt is that like, what are the, like, two rules that we can put on you to help you feel empowered to take this power back? Because that's okay.
This is at the end of the day, this is feeling like a losing of grip, a losing of control. I'm I'm, you know, I'm going to fight, so I'm going to fight. So I'm going to fight. But you're also saying I recognize that that's not healthy. So you're saying I like I want the change right, right. Right, right. And okay, so there's a couple of things I don't have the full answers to these. I know that we don't actually we're not going to we're not going to solve. We I, I was getting.
I know you're joking but but food for thought. I've got a couple of things because I have been working with Brittany about it. One thing that we're trying, which seems to be kind of working really well, is that I have a whiteboard in my office, this whiteboard every week, every every but every check in that I have with Brittany. We go over four buckets, four buckets right now, and we've broken them down into roles.
and so I've got, I've got media producer, I've got digital strategist, I've got captioner. And then because we know that it's a thing in my life and we don't want to punish me, I have optimizer. All right. So we're putting a positive spin on it. Yeah. Sometimes I look at that word and I and I just see tweaker. But it's tweak it on good days.
his twinkle so, so if I look at it and I see tweaker but but on good days I think optimizer and basically every week I'm allowed like three things for each bucket. An optimizer, only one, only one, one thing. It has to be very specific. And I have to get it done in the same way that I have to get all those other things done. And it does. This doesn't live. This doesn't live in task management world or project manager world.
It doesn't it I don't share it with you all, but I take it from work tasks and projects. I take it from captioning things. I take it from D and stuff. World Builder is in there as well, but she just kind of knows that I'm going to be able to handle that. And sometimes World Builder is also a part of media producer. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And hopefully more and more so just trying to keep it simple and trying to do that and then just the accountability. Yeah. So that's one way.
That's one way I would suggest to everyone that possibly you if you're if you're going to do the same thing. And I know that a lot of you are, because I've had these conversations in our beautiful discord server, the pocket dimension, I've had these conversations. So I would suggest that you really find a pal and you could meet once a week. I mean, first, first hire Brittany Smith, my my ADHD coach, number one.
Number two, if you can't just find your friend and say, these are the things I'm going to do today. Yeah. And you're going to get some of them done and you're going to fail and you're going to get distracted. But if you just put it in a place where you see it all the time, you'll at least see it and go, yeah, yeah, these are important. This is the no bullshit list. These are the important things. So this is not what's a good example.
So there is a captioner list, but currently there is not a build a wireless system for theater X okay. That's not on there right now I do want to do that. I've always wanted to do that. But it shouldn't be on there right now because I've got very specific things. optimizer could be completely redo the office. but I shouldn't do that. You know, I shouldn't. I shouldn't have that on the list right now. There is no need. Yeah. So that's the way it works. And we're trying it out.
And so far it feels good. And I know that seeing these things every day when I come into the office and seeing them just in my face and because they change to right, like these are not like these are things I want to live by. These should be deleted next week and and it just kind of makes me say, okay. Yeah. in order to get these important things done, I gotta stop McPherson, stop. McPherson, start. McLovin and that could be on the list, too. These are just ideas, you know?
I mean, Lindsay and I are going to Mexico the end of the year. I bet that Mexico will make this list. It's as if we get closer to that. Or. I mean, could be anything. It doesn't matter. It's I see it. It's vital. These are vital things. Boom, boom. I am trying to do the same. And world building. I'm trying to do the same. And thinking about prepping for games, trying to cut all the things that I know are just rabbit holes.
Can I tell you the thing that you've said so far today that just fills me with utter glee, joy and delight, and you're going to laugh at so hard? I already know, but go ahead. What do you think it's going to be that I am enjoying using our audio? That is exactly is that you gave it the edge. Man. I've given it the edge. And I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I've given you the edge. It also frustrates me sometimes, but it does enough. Yes, it's like it. Can you handle foundry VTI?
And what I mean by that is there is no question that foundry we can do every single thing that you want for a virtual game. There is no question. It is gorgeous software. It's incomparable. It's just the top tivity top of the things is if you've got that ability and you've got a little bit of of nerd skills and you're not afraid to kind of really deep dive in there, like I have in the past, you can't beat it. But if you want to get down to the what is the story? Who are you playing with?
How much fun can I have without juggling tools? And the reason I used foundry yesterday is because someone has. Someone did all of the hard work for me, right? They put it together in foundry and that's that's nice. And I, I do like that. I, I love them all. I love and counter plus and counter plus for me, was sort of my nerdy version of Albert Rodeo. but even that sometimes gets to be too fussy. Yeah, there's just too there's too many good people making it better.
Sometimes I'll share because I and I love how this is coming together. I love how the like the Personal Knowledge Manager database is coming into a fold with the talk that is ADHd20 right there in a nutshell.
Like there's so many threads we can pull between so many of the things that are both the way we wired and we are wired, and the things that we enjoy, and to kind of start to then close the loop on the question we asked at the beginning of this episode, which is like, what was your biggest moment? I think moments that I had recently in my life that I instantly applied into my game master practice is questioning when my anxiety spikes. Who told you that?
And I think we've talked about this before here where like in my head, for the first year that I was a game master, I thought that I had to cram action into every second of any session. I thought that I had to write four straight hours of a Steven Seagal movie. I don't know why. I just did. Didn't Steven Seagal felt good at the time? That's a weird choice now. Anyways. You know what I mean though? Like I thought I did.
I thought that was the expectation being put on my shoulders as a game master. And then I learned the question, who told you that? And I realized not one single person that I have ever played, and especially not one single person I have ever DM for, has ever said. Alison, my expectation of you as a GM is it is your job and your job only to entertain me for four straight hours.
And I realized that because I was planning for four straight hours, I was not giving myself or any of the players any room to explore. And that is why a lot of people play D right? Because I'm not a fuzzer and I don't enjoy high tech things nearly to the I love it when they work. I love it when you can take me by the hand and show me easily and then like I feel and look cool. But when I don't get it, my brain shuts down and I was spending six. Okay, behind the DM screen peek forward.
I'm running an eight level dagger heart one shot this weekend. Yes, I haven't even started prepping for it. but I'm no longer worried because I now know because of tools like owlbear rodeo that just allow me to like, just get to the point faster. it's not like I'm in for a couple of maps.
I went and bought a couple of tokens, and then the whole reason that I think I like Dagger Heart so much, both as a player and as a GM, is because, like it is, the onus is as much on the players to create the world and inhabit it fully as it is on me to run it. So while I want there to be very, you know, flavor text that draws you in and a really good hook and a really ferocious monster that you're going to have fun beating the shit out of. Like, I want all those things for you as a player.
Like stripping it down back to its brass tacks and just like letting other people help you build it. And I think that is a little bit of, you know, metaphor to what you're going through with the notion of like, yes, who told you it has to be perfect, that it has to beat every other project management and in your defense, we did tell you that we wanted all of these things. Yeah. So now is the time to say, okay, but what's the owlbear rodeo version of notion?
Yes. That just gets us the map that we need because we are all professionals who have brains, who know how things work like and. And so the fact that you have gotten that with owlbear rodeo and have because I had to drag you, I won't say kicking and screaming into owlbear rodeo, but there is a little resistance. Well, also it it grew up. Oh yeah it did. Yes. I was aware of owlbear from, from day one as well and it was not. Well, it's not even fun for me. Yes, but it is very, very solid.
It's frustrating that I can't do beautiful, lighting effects when you token go through the hallways and, but I also don't have to sit there and add walls for an hour. And that's exactly it. Like with counter plus I have now, I'm still spending honestly about the same amount of time prepping, realizing my players don't give a shit about things like fog, right? I could just put a big gray box over it and then delete it when they need to walk into that room.
Yeah, the bells and whistles are cool when you can do them seamlessly, and if that's how you want to spend all your time, and if we can get to a point where we can crowdfund a life for ourselves. We were paid millions a second just for breathing and building worlds. Cool. Yeah. But in the meantime, I would much rather give my players a satisfying story and like, fun NPCs. And I realize what I was doing is what I was using and, you know, tools I can. I've never touched foundry.
I probably never will. And again, until you kind of get through it. No I yeah yeah. No you're limits right. But like with encounter plus I was spending so much time in the set up that I was writing these very thin stories and these very uninteresting NPCs and baddies. And now I feel like I can write juicier things because I've just reallocated my time back. So I want you to write juicier things and reallocate your time. I will, and you're right, it is all about priority.
I will say one last thing for those listening going yeah, ba ba ba ba. But I, I'm imagining that your butt is the same as mine. Nice. No. I'm kidding. like the. It's so weird. I reference Steven Seagal. So you're just getting on my weird level again. You're saying he does have a nice ass? He does. So, yes. To what you just said. Your players do not care about fog of war, however I do. Yes. I love I love the lighting effects. I don't like the way owlbear does it as much. I want it to look cooler.
I play, I've played video games all my life. I want it to look like that. But here's the thing that I can suggest. Find a way, find a time and definitely find the right application. Yeah. For that. And in my, you know, in my case, someday I would love to make videos on every single virtual tabletop out there. I really do want to do that. In my mind.
I'm now taking all of the things that I love to learn about, and I'm going to put them in a bucket, and I'm going to say, I'm going to have a series on this, I'm going to talk about it. And that is a much better use of my time. As far as as far as that stuff goes. Because yes, you get into this thing where like, but I want this, this is what is part of the fun for me. But look, what is the bigger fun? The bigger fun is the fun that I have with all of my friends.
And you're right, my friends don't give a damn. What is your priority of fun? You have to like. Yeah, with an ADHD brain, you have to qualify. Quantify it to that degree. Yes, you have to say yes. Yeah. Fun. But you're still going to have fun just playing with your friends. Matt. So. And you can eat apples and cake and have them too. Yeah, but choose your battles. Choose exactly.
And that's like, I am not like, yes, I absolutely agree that the merit of Fog of War and a really cool, interactive, so cool. There's no part of me that's trying to rain on that parade. And if we were playing in one game and this was just like your, like, side project and you were just over here on the side tinkering and making it great, and that's the thing that you did fine. But the truth of the matter is we're running a full time business.
Yeah, we have all of the pocket dimension things going on. We are now, you know, you are now running a campaign for us as friends. You're running a campaign for Pocket Dimension. I'm running monthly one shots. You're also running monthly one shots. Like at some point we have to prioritize. Right. And that's all that this conversation is about. It is not. Yeah. Please.
Gremlins of the internet do not walk away from this episode being like, well, Alison says anybody who spends any time tinkering on any team sucks. Yeah. Yeah. If that soundbite gets out that I've been taken grossly out of context, that's not what I mean. And yes, I understand and appreciate the fact that you enjoy it as much as you do.
Yeah. But in the grand scheme of things like when when we don't have time to do everything we want, we just have to get better at saying, okay, so what's the most important little amount of time right now? And I would rather give a satisfying one shot than have a super satisfying personally. And if you disagree with that and would rather have a great, that is your prerogative. And I will not talk you out. Exactly, exactly. Perfectly said, perfectly said.
I feel like we could also, on a meta level, apply this to this very podcast. as we have not adhered to a schedule that we have and in previous years. Yeah. And I'm not going to make us feel bad about it, but I will say this, that, I'm very happy with the work that we've done this year. Season three. This podcast is important to me. These these talks are important to me. It's important to me that we have them on a microphone. Yeah.
For some reason. Yeah. So yeah I say while we haven't fixed the issue, par for the course 20. I would like to also say yes. And let's, let's make sure that, that we in our many, many, many, many things that we have to do now with the pocket dimension, remember that, that this is easy and this is fun, okay. And this is, this is this is important to. Us and worth prioritizing, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. Prioritizing. It'll never get easier. Yeah. I mean, I won't say that it's easy for me now.
I will say that I am more skilled at it than I've ever been before. I can even learn skill. You can learn like, I. I can look back on times where I just was all over the place. And I have realized in recent years that when you do that, when you have 18 projects that you try and start and work on all at once, the the progression is very, very slow. It's it's everything.
To tie it again back to, to D and D. It's what I realized with my chemical build when I multiclass, I was going half as fast in my progression of levels as the rest of my brain, so I constantly felt behind them. I was like, wow, they're really skilled and I'm even though I was at the same level of them, I was only half good at two things.
I also think that one of the moments that we have been speaking about this episode for me, has been I will get more skilled, I will develop more tools, but unfortunately that is broken in me. The prioritization, it's truly broken. It doesn't work. And I think that if I remember that, and I and I call upon my friends for help. Exactly. And I and I continue to make this podcast that I have things to talk about so that I am aware of these moments. But it doesn't mean that I can't get better.
That's the difference. It's not going to get better. I will get better. And right. What you just said then sparked something else in me. We're just going to do this for like the next two weeks. The longest episode ever was like, yes, and to each other, everything that the other one says is like, yeah, we piloted that. In your defense, yes, there are like hard and soft skills that like are never going to sit well and are just same with me. You probably could sit with me for hours
a day and teach me how to code, you know, but like it would be a lot. And. But nobody's asking me to write. You're asking me to do the things that I'm good at, while I'm asking you to do the things that you're good at. Yeah, you are our warlock. You are our artificer. And, like. So then stop trying to be the wizard, the bard, the fighter, the barbarian, you know, like and same thing for me.
Like, like getting into our classes, getting into our lanes, knowing our roles and then knowing like, okay, so I'm doing warlock and artificer things, that other thing over there that really feels like a sorcerer. I need some wild magic in order to feel that I'm going to call my sorcerer in. Yeah. That's why even with the one shots, when I kick them off, everybody's always interested in what everybody else is playing.
Because, yes, a party full of bards or a party full of barbarians or druids can be funny and sticky. But like for the most part, in most even one shots you want, you know, the hand-to-hand combat specialists and the ranged specialists and the healers and that's all any of us are being called to do. That's it. We fix everything. That is in. Yeah, I think that's it. So let's do it. Yeah. And let's do this more often.
Yeah. Couple nerds turned on some mics, talked about their problems, and discovered that a lot of other people had the exact same problems. And I still have more problems. So don't you worry. Season to see if it's worth the problem set up for you guys. So that is the ADHD promise. We're going to keep repeating things, but as we've already mentioned, we're not going to remember and y'all are not going to. It's going to be really funny when we're old and have ADHD. Like if it's like.
[laughs] I mean sink into senility, just it's it's, it's going to be. A like, buckle up, everybody. Yah, Seriously. That is a weird thing. Y’all think that I repeat myself now just wait until 84 year old Alison’s in the house. Oh, man, I can't wait to know 84 year old. I know she's going to be great. I can't wait, you know, 84 and 94 year old Matt. Yeah, exactly. Died for you. Know. He's going to be great. I'm so excited. He's going to be.
Like, Lord of the dinner table, just holding court every night. It's nice all on the stack. Them? Yeah, that's probably true I love it. I all the time. We train stations. ADHd20 is a creation from the pocket dimension, a multiverse where we explore neuro. Spies, rolling. Dice, and so much more. Come chat with us in our discord server. Open to all. The join link is in our show notes. Ready to level up your support?
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