Party, party, party, party, party, party, party, party.
We like, we like to party, we like, we like to party, We
like, we like Why do we like to party? Alison, why are we partying?
Because today, today, Matthew, this very episode is our 18th, our 18th episode. We did it. Our little baby is 18.
This podcast is the biggest surprise of the last, three to five years for me. Of a joyful Yeah. We, we first recorded the first episode 3/9/22, and we were like, I think most of the episode is, Oh man, I have no idea whether this makes any sense.
This is gonna work.
I don't think it's gonna work because look, look, if you are online now in 2022, if you do things, if you want to stand out, then you need to find your niche, right? But come on, man. There's like , there's some limits to some niches, right? Like there's some
There is not. That is a limiting belief right there, Matthew Bivins. And and exactly like we have proven that there is a cross section of people who wants to listen to us and join in the conversations about ADHD and D&D.
Two great tastes that taste great together. Um, it's true. They do. And this has been so much fun. It's been such a delight. We were very smart about it. We, we recorded three first again to kind of see, hey, is this going to do anything? Are we gonna have enough to talk about? But I love that. Just so many things. So many things that have been that. I like the celebration. The reason that we're celebrating too is that you had this brilliant idea of, of giving this podcast some seasons.
And the seasons
Some seasoning, like some salt, some onion powder, some garlic, some pepper.
Mm-hmm. All of those Trader Joe's spice combos that are just so good. But yeah, we, you know, you had this idea of like, Hey, look It's so hip right now to have seasons of things and what if we did 18, called it a season? The podcast is now able to vote and as you've put it legal in most states. We were gonna talk about a few of our favorite things of this year. Um, what were a few of your favorite things, Alison?
One of the very first thing that, uh, stands out is our great friend, Alejandro Tey
Alejandro Tey!
Alejandro Tey!Dungeon Master to the Stars, um, and one of my very favorite people. And, uh, so he was our inaugural guest, and that, that was, for me, that was when like the podcast was not just Matt and Alison talking into the void, but like, Hey, there's other people that this is, this is interesting to and, and could help make this even more interesting by the stories that they add to it. I loved, I loved having Tey on and I loved, We recorded for like hours.
I had to cut us off to go to a meeting finally, and I didn't want to, I would've gone longer if I could have.
Yeah, I know, I loved that. Um,
What about, what about you?
I want, I want more of that in 2023, but, um, I really enjoyed our talk about turning ADHD traits into spells. I thought that was really fun. That was a fun episode that we, and that's something that we're just kind of getting started on. So I'm excited to work on that, uh, in the next couple of months.
Yep. Same. Um, let's see what else. You broke my brain. The episode where Matt and Alison are sorry. And we talked about when and how and why being friends with somebody with ADHD can be frustrating and some some buffs we hope to help with that. And so, um, the, the concept you introduced of the fiver, I loved that. And I now have friends who will do kind of what you said Nate does with you, which will text me and say, Fiver question mark.
I really, Huh. That's amazing. That's amazing. Uh, but it is, it really works. You just have to get to the point where you can do fivers and you're like, Hey, just, you know, let's just, But yeah. That's
And that was, I think, like removing the friction. Like for me,
Yeah.
Being a good friend and remembering to catch up with people sometimes just is so mentally exhausting to even think about. So what the fiver did, is it removed that entirely where there doesn't have to be any friction because we know we're just gonna get on for this finite period of time, have a quick catch up, and then do it again soon. Rather than procrastinate for weeks of the, we should catch up game that turns into the two hour marathon chats. So, I
Exactly. That's what it's for. The things that I've learned, the fiver is funny because like these systems that, that I've put together in my life to survive, to get through a day, get through a, year, and these things that I take for granted is just being, oh, well, geez. Those are just my things. Those are the things that I, that are unique to me.
No one else in the world experiences these same things and the level that I have realized that they are traits and that just the, the amount of, of excitement and energy and the ability to share that and to say, Hey, like, this is happening. And look, it's actually, these are traits. These are like scientifically proven. These are things that are happening in my brain. So I just, I've learned so much.
I've learned so much simply talking to you, simply talking to you about this stuff, you know, and, and my coach. But really what would happen almost every week is you and I would discover something, right? In the, in the confines of ADHD and Dungeons & Dragons, somewhere along the lines, we would say, Huh, I wonder if that's a, And I go to coach who's a, the neuroscientist. And I would. Does this? Is this. Yeah. And she said, Yeah, that's, that's another thing. I love it.
It's just I've packed in more learning about this disability, this thing that is my brain in, in this year than I have my 50 years. I know! It's amazing. It's amazing. Um,
is
and yeah, and, and, and along the same lines, we've said all this before, um, but you know, it's a birthday episode. It's kind of like, I guess a birthday episode is you know, like the TV show flashback episode that No, everyone's like You already said that. You already Oh, they already did that. Oh, it's a flashback. Anyway, I'm gonna do it anyway.
What I love , what I love is, That then we've been able to start this little community, these people that are watching now and and that are at, at Patreon and that are writing and, and saying, Oh yeah, my kid, like our friend, you know, our friend Meg is like my kid's going through this. And I can say, um, well, gosh, guess what? We just learned? This is totally valid. Try this instead. Like, because man, if I had gotten that when I was little, and of course, that makes Meg a superstar.
The validation of it all is, and I am, I am someone who does seek and crave constant validation as you and anybody watching this are all well aware is that I just need, I, you know, I think, uh, words of affirmation is certainly one of my love languages, and so I just need that little, like, you're doing it, you're on the right path, Like keep going and, and
You're doing it, Alison
You're doing it, Matt!!
You're on the right path. No, you're doing it. On the right path.
Well, the path is more fun with friends. Like we can pack a little picnic and make it a little party like we've done. Like why did we, why did we bear this burden alone for as long as we did? I don't know.
It's true. It's true. Mm burdens.
No , burdens.
No burdens. Um, yeah, so that's why we're celebrating, 18. Uh, does it feel to you like it might be time to roll a d100?
Always be rolling. Rolling why? Ooh, ooh. Don't go off that table. This, this roll is everything I could have hoped for here on our 18th birthday.
You didn't roll an 18, did you?
I rolled a 69. Nice.
And knowing you in Fitz, you probably put something to that... That's all it is. It just says nice ellipses. It just
forgot that we did that. Oh, man.
It just says, "Nice..."
That's it. I
So
I guess up or down.
All right then I guess nice means up or down, Top or bottom.
Down.
Okay. Giggle giggle. Uh, alright. Downtown, uh, Alison, spoiler alert, what's the next character build you're planning?
Oh my gosh. I, I don't, I don't have an answer for that. Like, What is this? I have fulfilled so many, you know, I, I get, Okay. Okay. I haven't played like a true barbarian or fighter or something like that. So I think, I think next I need to push myself out of my comfort zone, and do something in that realm. we're gonna get away from magic user for a minute and we're gonna get into something, um, more, more fighter build.
So stay tuned and whoever wants to play that game with me, you just let me know and we'll make it happen.
I think a lot of our plans for 2023 are playing more and figuring out ways to do that, because we've been kind of like visualizing it on this podcast and dreaming about it here. Right? anyway, Guess what I rolled?
What did you roll?
A 16.
You rolled a sweet 16 You're gonna hate this, and that means I love it.
Oh, good.
Sing your favorite jingle or whatever the first one that comes to mind is,
Favorite jingle. You know, that's the kind of thing where when you're not trying to think of them, you think of them all the time.
Mm-hmm.
Do you remember just for the taste of it, Diet Coke.
Just for the taste of it. Diet Coke. Yes. I remember a lot of the Coke Jingles. There
that one came, that one came to mind. Um, I don't know if that's my favorite, but I, I at least pulled it out
That's why we qualified, or just the first one that comes to mind, like don't, don't give yourself psychic damage. As we discovered last time, what that is.
May I add to our list of things that I've loved about this podcast for 18 episodes? This freaking ADHD100 table, man. The more that we dive into it, the more I realize how long y'all spent on this. Oh my God, it's not, it's not thrown together, y'all. It's not thrown together. It is a gorgeous 100 questions that are not alike. There's no fluff. There's no filler. Some of them are very Dungeons and Dragons based some of them are. Some of them are just like nice
We were pulling the questions out of, you know, where, but the whole process was not thrown together. It was done with purpose and intent. Aligned actions. Boo yah. So when we look back on, you know, 2022, our, our little retrospective where this has been a major event of the year, I think about all of the changes that have come into my life not necessarily because of but in some ways Yes. Doing this podcast. Right.
Um, and so on one of our earliest podcasts, I came in brimming with excitement because I had just DMed my first game. Um, and so now we're coming into kind of a full circle moment where I have taken that one step further and now I am world building. And so I thought since this is something that Matt has spent a lot of time doing in the past couple of years as well, and I, I think it's something you enjoy, it's certainly something you're good at. Right?
One of my favorite things.
Um, I thought we could talk through world building with ADHD, like, and we've talked about, we've talked about ADHD, like the positive sides of ADHD frequently throughout this journey together of the last 18 episodes. It's not all bad. And I think, that world building is actually one of the ways that actually lends itself really easily, because we don't have that filter. We don't sometimes get in the way of our own imaginations where like, no le let me pull at that thread.
And I think that's fun. And then this is where hyper fixation serves us so well, I spent the entire Saturday sitting in front of my computer. And I, I wish I had more to show for it. I do!
Well, yeah, but
but time well spent, I'm not, I'm not poo pooing my efforts, I'm just saying I spent all day doing something and if you were only judging me by the output, the output was like three maps and a few paragraphs and some names of some places and some thoughts. But the real output was the enjoyment I got from just that day of being deep inside a fantasy world that I myself got to create. And I think if I was not neurodivergent in some way, I wouldn't have gotten to experience that.
No, that makes sense. I mean, that thing that you're talking about, the fearlessness of pulling threads, um, the working all day and kind of going, Wait a minute, what did I do? But I bet though, I bet on that Saturday, you did find the core. And we talked about this, but the, for me it was trial and error. Trial and error until it clicks. And that's what hyper fixation really is. It's like, uh, I don't know.
You know, it's kind of, it's like you are being dragged along sometimes by things that you have to do that you wanna work on. Sometimes you wanna work on 'em, sometimes not. We have the power eventually, if we're dragged around long enough, and if we can be patient enough in a day or a week or a, something to jump onto the motorcycle, and then we are in control, which is super cool. And Yeah, for sure, I've had many of those days too, where you're like, just g going. Just going. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. , it's, it's making sense that it's feeling good and it's leading to immense amounts of joy, and I loved it.
Well, I'll start off by saying I think that, we, I would have, this is absolutely unscientific, We'd have to have a poll. But I bet you, that game masters that have ADHD, not all of them of course, but would tend to want to build their own world. It doesn't mean that I can't appreciate Barovia, but I use those to learn and then I just always want to change things. Like, it's always, I always want to make it my own, make it more me, make it, fit it to the people that I'm playing with.
Like, that just is like, I'm, I'm a tinkerer. I can't help.
What?
I I mean, I, I know that you say you're not as much of a tinkerer, but I don't, I don't know. I, I feel like this is one of those cases because it, there's no damage that could possibly be done if you build your own world it's free. It's just a pure artistic expression of things that you love and people you love and concepts that you love or frighten you or, um, and, and kind of putting 'em into a soup,
Mm-hmm.
and then being able to share that soup. But of course, we could be talking about authors or playwrights. We could be talking about people who write movies as well. But specifically in this game, your players then help you write. And that's also so fun. Like, that's also so great. So I was gonna start off just by saying number one world building, could be an ADHD trait.
Mm.
Yes or no? Discuss.
I wonder if it's because we have this tendency to not feel like we fit in. And maybe that's not ADHD. Maybe that's just zooming out neurodivergence, right there is this, we've talked about masking before and things like that. And so when you world build, you're not asking anything to fit in. You're not trying to to jam anything into one particular spot. You're just
Right?
Screw it. Let's start from scratch, , and let's, let's, let's build something that compliments what we want to accomplish instead of trying to take ourselves and, and place them within. Um, So it actually makes a lot of sense that we would be drawn to the desire to world build.
Is it the right thing to do? I don't know. Like, uh, there, well, there's no rules of course, but like, do we need to study the classics before we do?
It means more that it's personal, right? And I don't think that that's ego talking, but so the name of the town where we're kicking off this adventure is Lavs Keep. And that is named after my very first character, Lavinia, who died. So I already feel like a really emotional connection to this place, rather than just pulling something off of a shelf. I can see it, I can envision it.
And then I'm trying to help each of my characters find their stake and footing in the world too, so that way they also have ownership and a legacy within and all of those things. And then there is, and maybe this is the ego part of it. So taking back the curtain for a second and letting people see behind it, DMing is a whole lot of work. I cannot express in words how much work it is. It is so much work.
I know that before I DM'd, y'all all told me and I, I was aware on some level that these guys are working their butts off to give us something to do. You know, 2020 was very easy for us to play Dungeons and Dragons cuz we didn't have a lot going on.
Right.
But then when the world started to reopen, you know, and scheduling conflicts started to come up, it, it became harder. And I kept saying like, How can I ease that burden? And I mean, if anybody listening has figured out how to ease the burden of DMing, let us know. Cuz we haven't figured it out yet. But that was one of the reasons I wanted to start DMing.
And so that way it's not always on like, Hey Matt, it is your job to spend hours a week figuring out ways to entertain me for a few hours as well. Um, so if I'm gonna spend all that time, why am I gonna spend all that time on somebody else's intellectual property? Why wouldn't I spend the time?
And so I've kind of borrowed from what you've just said of taking existing modules and modifying, it doesn't all have to be scratch made, so I, I do have a module that I'll be running, um, the characters through that I finally picked out. But it aligns with the vision I already had. It's just gonna help me take a couple of shortcuts so I can spend the time where I wanna spend the time. With helping my characters build and you know, things like that.
Two things. Number one, Yes. I'd like to reiterate to people that, being a game master takes a lot of work. So you really have to like it. You really do. I don't think there's any reason, any reason somebody should just, just be a game master because they're forced to because I, it's really a lot of work and I think that you have to like it and I love it. And then the second thing though, I was going to say, about the intellectual property.
Everybody knows I worship at the altar of Mike Shea and I, and I feel like there is that balance, right? I feel like there is that balance of when you pick up a Mike Shea adventure, he doesn't have a ton of 'em, just a few, but they're so well written, they're really rock solid and the first thing he says is, take this and go, man, take this into your world. It will fit into this and this and this world. And, he plays a combination of all the things, his own stuff and, and, and written stuff.
I think you, you also have to find the joy in that as well. But yes, uh, I think finding that balance is key. But I agree with you too. Like if you are gonna really do a lot of work, why not do something that is your own?
And then that's, that's kind of leading into some of the things that we spoke about in episode 17 where we were talking about our core values and how do we want to be spending our time and what do we desire? And it's like if you and I want to get more and more into the D&D community, why wouldn't we be, you know, taking the time?
The time is now. Yeah,
The time is now.
Cool.
Any advice, for me or for others who are thinking about, going down the world building and DMing path, especially taking into, consideration ADHD?
I think that probably the advice to that is going to be the same that you get from any kind of writing, creative exercise. Which is write about what you know, write about the people that you know, don't be afraid of mapping because you know, like we've said, tropes, people want the tropes. Man, give them the tropes. Just go for it. Do it. And I think, it's even more fun to, to write for specific people, right?
To write for a group that, you know, Someday I do wanna test it and see what the world is like with strangers or something. But I, I think the more personal it is to you, the better it's going to be. Like putting yourself into it on all, cases and forms. So, Uh, we've talked about so many positive things. I was gonna segue a little bit into like the organization, like the, the actual organization of it though.
You know, when we talk about all the work that we're doing, it is, I don't know, for me it has to be notes. It has to be things written down. It has to be like bullet points and stuff for me. Uh, I'm sure there's tons of ways of doing it, but that is a challenge for people with ADHD. Big for me. I know. And, and that is one thing that is frustrating. It's not specific to world building, but it is like, I wrote about this, I already wrote about this person. I already, Where is it?
It's like, uh, which, which note? Which is it? Notion, Is it obsidian? Is it Craft? Where is it? Where did I write that? Is it, you know, it's everywhere. It's everywhere. And that drives me nuts that
And This is
gotten a little bit better.
We've spent a lot of time on this here podcast, uh, trying to gate you into not using multiple platforms,
Yeah. Okay. Right. But I've also, at every turn, I've always said it's impossible. Don't even try. You can't, you can't. It's a waste of time. But, uh, I do feel, I have, I have stuck with something for a good, long time and it, and it seems to be pretty cool to have some kind of hierarchy organization. And that doesn't have to be folders, but it has to be, here are the players in this world, here are the non-player characters in your world.
Here are the locations, here are the events that happen. Here's a timeline. Here's, you know, because that stuff is going to come back. And, And in that, like when you improvise the fella that works at the jail and he, you know, he's an intake officer and you have to make him up because your players suddenly walk into the jail without you having any idea that that's gonna happen. You have to like scramble, you have to write notes about, cuz they will go back to him. What is his accent?
Is he Southern, is he Irish? Is he Scottish? You have to write that down. What does he look like? Like, and, and, and I will say, and
part for me. I like, apparently Matt Mercer keeps like audio files. Mind boggling. Um, I was trying to put together campaign database for my world building. Fitz shared Mike Shea's Notion templates with me. I think to tie this back into ADHD, one trait about ADHD that I'm often very, very guilty of, and it drives me crazy about myself is. If I don't start something from the beginning, then it just gets too overwhelming and I'm like, well, it's too late now.
Like, I can't, I, I can't possibly start in the middle and start taking good notes from this day forward. No, no, I've already not taken notes, so I just might as well continue, right? Um, so to fight against that urge, I'm just going to start taking good notes from the beginning. Otherwise we're gonna wind up in week nine and be like, Well I haven't done it for the past eight weeks, so why start now?
Which is something I desperately want to break myself of this whole, like, well the whole day's, wasted cuz I wasted the first two hours of it, which is not true. If you wasted two hours of a day, you have several other hours, you could still be productive.
It's so true. Yeah, someday when I feel like, like what I've got is, solidified, which I feel pretty, pretty good about it, we'll share in like actual tools I think, you know, that, that I think have been really, really amazing. Um, Anyway, we were gonna talk about what, what we do have planned, what we, what we are excited about being next and stuff.
I'm gonna go ahead and out us right here, right now.
Okay.
Matt and I are starting a TikTok channel.
Yeah, that's
happening, So we're gonna spend some time building that up. Um, we are gonna go guest hunting, which is more fun for me than ghost hunting. I think. Um,
For me. It's on the fence, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
We keep every week, I feel like we have, Oh, we should invite them to be in our podcast. Um, you know, so like, let's get, uh, let's get some D&D heavy hitters up in this piece, um, for next season. So we're gonna spend some time like dreaming and, and scheming and, and doing all of those other things. Um, and then come back to pop you in the mouth, pop pop, uh, with season two
It's that what we do pop you in the mouth.
Is that,
pop, pop. pop.
Is that not what we do?
Yeah. Well, maybe, maybe. I've never, I've never heard it described that way, but I'm not, I'm not not into it, I guess. Yeah, yeah. You know, I, I had to warm up to the idea of, of season one and season two and season three and season 50, but I, I really, the more I thought about, the more I really like it because it gives me something to miss, for just, you know, a very short amount of time.
You know, I think we have realized that one thing that's good for us is to take breaks and to kind of dream up a little bit and then do those things and then come back to it. You know, that's how we work together as business partners. And I think that's, I think that's a good way of, of doing it. So I'm, I'm gonna do it. Are, are, are the seasons gonna have names, Are they gonna have nicknames like
Oh.
Season one and Season two. Season three.
We could do better. I hadn't conceptualized that they would, but now that you've said that, like we've, we've gotta have, you know, I've been
And we might, we could also do a Christmas special too, or a holiday special if we really wanted to. That, that, that's a thing that happens, you know, the Star Wars holiday
like cozy sweaters and elf
Mm.
Oh, I love that um, lot's gonna happen between now and January, apparently.
I know. Oh, and we're going to Cons, right? We're, that's another major goal is we're going to conventions. We both did some homework. We're going to find some cons and we are going to N-E-R-D-O-U-T
O-U-T. We're going to Wisconsin. I'm so excited.
The birthplace
of D&D
The birth place of of
Gary
role playing. Yeah. Of role
to, So yeah, we're gonna go, to Lake Geneva, Wisconsin and take a slight, uh, short road trip over to Kenosha, Wisconsin, home of the Mars Cheese Castle. Cheese on cheese.
on cheese, on cheese. You know, Wisconsin's one of my favorite states.
And I've never been, and it's time for me to go and experience it. And Gary Con and you and I have conned together before, we have theater conned. We have theater kid nerd conned out and, and not really that different um, and we had a great time and, but now it's time for us to con our hearts out once more, at Gary and Game Hole and GenCon and, uh, Pax Unplugged.
And maybe the Canadian one.
Oh my gosh, yes, the Canadian
break
out. Breakout Con, I, I've never been to Canada. I've never been to Wisconsin and I've never been to Canada. And these seem like ideal reasons to go to these places.
Yes, yes. yes. Um, Alison, I feel like we should probably say goodbye so that they hear that we love them so much. We love you guys so much
We do.
That anybody would listen to a, podcast about ADHD and D&D and gain any, any kind of enjoyment from it, which we did not expect you to and still don't. Like, you don't have to. There's no, But the fact that you did and, and do it just made my year, my whole freaking year. It
warms the cockles of my cold, dead heart.
Yes, yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. So Happy birthday 18 podcast and uh, we'll come back in season two.
coming at you. Woo.
Come on at you in season two.
Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. Season two. Season two. Season
on At you in two. What what what coming at you in season two. Come on at you in season two. Yeah.
the love of God. Turn it off.
Oh my
Oh