[109] Trolley Square Mall - Salt Lake City, Utah

We have an active shooter, we have an acre, shoots go ahead of me quier with a mass casualty. Welcome to Active Shooter, a podcast that covers the wys, the hows, and the aftermath of active shooter and mass casualty events. I have an active shooter in the building. A teching call says they are big attacks. We got shots fliers four fifteen asl Brouge ninety one. So I'd like, oh, I'm at a fire, active shooter or it's of an active shooter, active shooter, active shooter of mash casualty

incidents. Thank you for listening. You are listening to Active Shooter, a podcast that may contain adult themes, explicit language, and graphic depictions of violence. Portions of this show may be traumatic for those under eighteen. Listener discretion is advised, at least on the surface. Some sense of normalcy may return to Salt Lake City's Trolley Square Mall Wednesday. It will reopen for the first time since a teenager went on a deadly shooting rampage Monday night. But for

police in the community, some big questions remain. What drove a young man to take this position? What can we do as a community to ensure that it doesn't happen again. Well, youse, say, eighteen year old went to the mall just before seven pm, dressed in a trench coat and armed with a shotgun and thirty eight caliber pistol. He shot and killed five people

and critically wounded four others before being killed by police. It's been seventeen years since the shooting at the Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City, Utah. Only fifteen years old, the youngest shooting victim, never got the chance to experience that many years in this world. One of the shooting survivors has since passed away, likely due to complications from the lifelong injuries he sustained in the shooting. The aftermath, even so many years later, shows us just a

glimpse of the struggles that shooting victims and their families. Shooting survivors and their families, and even witnesses grapple with days, months, years, and even decades later. Injuries can last for a lifetime and impact everyday life, and memories can linger in the depths of the minds coming out to torture those survivors

every time they hear about the next mass shooting. Today's case is dedicated to the lives and memories of the four injured survivors Carolyn Tuft, aj Walker, Sean Muns, and Stacy Hansen, and the five shooting victims Jeffrey Walker,

Vanessa Quinn, Kirsten Hinckley, Brad Frantz, and Theresa Ellis. Active Shooter the podcast is a High five Holly production, and I'm your host j T. If you've listened to our prior episodes, you know that the Active Shooter podcast team has taken THEE No Notoriety pledge and we will not be sharing the real name to the shooters that we cover. We will be giving the shooters

a pseudonym and refer to them by that name throughout the episode. This will help in clearing up any confusion in the story while remaining true to our pledge in not naming the shooter by their actual name. We will refer to today's shooter as Xander. Monday, February twelfth, two thousand and seven, was a typical day in Salt Lake City, Utah. It was a mild, late winter evening with occasional stretches of cloud cover For eighteen year old Xander.

However, the day was anything but normal. Today was his last day alive. He intended to and in fact did, shoot and murder five people while injuring another four people before exchanging gunfire with police, who ultimately shot and killed Xander. It was approximately six forty five pm when Xander rolled into the parking

structure at the Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City. He parked his Burgundy Mazda six two six and exited the car carrying a backpack that was loaded with ammunition, a twelve gage Mosburg Maverick eighty eight security six shot pump action shotgun and a Smith and Wesson Model thirty six thirty eight caliber revolver. He walked with purpose while simultaneously retrieving the shotgun from the backpack. When he caught sight of Jeffrey and A J. Walker, a father and son who were walking

towards their own parked vehicle. Xander's shot and hit them both. Jeffrey Walker immediately fell to the ground dead in an instant. AJ was shot twice, once in the head and once in the ankle, but he still managed to run back into the corridor with the staircases leading to the lower level of the structure. While AJ ran for his life. Xander approached Jeffrey and again began shooting the already dead man. Fifty three year old Jeffrey Walker was born on

December twenty second, nineteen fifty four, in San Bernardino, California. Much of his childhood was spent in the Northern California region. Jeffrey met his soulmate, Vicki, and the couple was married on June twenty ninth, nineteen eighty four, and together they began their family that consisted of two sons and two daughters. Jeffrey was a proud active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and was well known for his giving nature and was described as

someone who often places the needs of others above his own. He was incredibly family oriented, preferring to spend all of his free time with family and loved ones. Jeffrey is survived by his beloved Vicki and their four children and three grandchildren. Minutes after the initial gunshots, the Salt Lake City Police Department's dispatch center got the first call reporting an active shooter at the Trolley Square Mall's parking

structure. Law enforcement units were dispatched immediately, Xander proceeded to the west entrance of the parking structure and walked out into the open, where each individual who happened to be in the vicinity suddenly became extremely vulnerable to an attack they could never prepare for. Indeed, the next person that came into contact was Xander. Thirty four year old Shawn Munns had just parted ways with his wife and

kids. The family was out for a birthday dinner. You can imagine how such a joyous occasion was juxtaposed against the horror and tragedy that was set to follow. Sean was about thirty yards away from Xander when he was shot twice in the back. The jolt from the bullets caused Sean to fall. He managed to get up and run into the now defunct Hard Rock Cafe, where he alerted others to the active shooter. Seawn also called his wife and hollered

for her to turn around and drive away from the mall. Sewn survived his injuries, but the effects of those injuries will be felt for a lifetime. He had seventy five to one hundred metal pellets lodged in his body, which can cause lead poisoning, so Schenre was required to take specific medication several times per day for removing lead. Xander quickly walked up to the mall's entrance when a teenage girl was walking towards him, her inside the mall and him outside.

The girl heard a disturbance outside of the mall and was going to check things out when she suddenly saw a man lower a shot gun and shoot twice at the doors. She stood before the glass in front of her exploded, yet miraculously she was not hit. She ran into a store near by, where she was able to hide. Meanwhile, Xander entered the mall and headed towards the west stairs. A security guard spied Xander at the same time that

Xander spotted him. He raised the weapon and shot several times at the guard, but he missed. Bullet struck the ceiling, causing to breed a fall from above and likely made the scene appear as chaotic and confusing as it surely felt. Xander continued through the mall when he noticed Vanessa Quinn running in the opposite direction. Using the thirty eight handgun. Xander shot at Vanessa and struck her in the chest. She fell to the ground, and just like with

Jeffrey. Xander walked up to the young woman and shot her in the back of the head execution style, except he had already killed her. This was just overkill, and it was. It is disturbing and an utterly terrifying display of pure evil. Twenty nine year old Vanessa Quinn was born on February eighth, nineteen seventy eight. She met her husband Rich in Cincinnati, Ohio, in nineteen ninety nine, and they were inseparable from that day until her death.

An athlete and adventure seeker, Vanessa and Rich took a leap and moved to Utah after she landed a job with overstock dot Com. The couple loved animal and took in strays often, and Vanessa even considered the animals her children. She is survived by Rich and the animals they shared at the time. After killing Vanessa, Xander entered a card store called Cabin Fever. Several people were hiding inside of the store when Xander initially walked past the store, but

he backtracked and entered, though the reason why can never be known. Inside of Cabin Fever, fifty three year old Stacy Hansen was crouched down near a window. When Xander caught his eye. Stacey said to Zander quote, we all have families we love and just want to go home, to which Xander replied for the other man to shut up, before lowering the gun and shooting

Stacy in the stomach and arm. The window that Stacy was under shattered from the bullets, raining pieces of glass down on Stacy, who fell face first into the glass. Stacy was severely injured, and though he survived the injuries, his recovery was anything but swift. While he remained an incredible and positive force throughout, Stacy was forced to undergo numerous surgeries and was wheelchair bound for the remainder of his life. Sadly, he passed away on November fifth,

twenty twenty three. Elsewhere in the store, forty four year old Caroline Tuft was hiding by a display towards the front entrance, and her daughter Kirsten was nearby. Xander approached Carolyn and shot her, striking her left side and arm. She was injured, but she was alive. The same could not be said for Kirsten, who was shot in the torso and killed. She was

fifteen years old and taken from this world too. Soon. Kirsten was born on June ninth, nineteen ninety one, in Salt Lake City to parents Carolyne Tuft and Stephen Hinckley. An intelligent sophomore at Brighton High School, she planned to attend Bartletter College in England after graduation. A true friend to all, she was known as extremely loyal and was someone you could spill all of your

secrets to. The kind hearted friend. Sister and daughter will be fiercely missed, and the loss and pain her mother still suffers fro him is immeasurable. Twenty four year old Brad France and twenty nine year old Teresa Ellis were patronizing cabin Fever when the gunman entered. They were a newer couple, but they loved each other and they died together. Brad was born on June twe twenty second, nineteen eighty two, to June Carmel Steglik and Daniel ted Frantz.

He graduated from Highland High School in two thousand before going on to work for Eagle pre Cast Company. Before his death, Brad was promoted to erection lead man, which was his greatest professional triumph. His daughter and Theresa were his most treasured personal relationships. Teresa was born on January twenty sixth, nineteen seventy eight, in Jamestown, New York. She was raised as sort of a

theater kid, acting in school plays and singing. She played trumpet and piano in high school, but she had a wide variety of interests, including traveling and scrap booking. The young lovers were out for an early Valentine's dinner on an average day that ended most tragically. There was another customer who was left unharmed hiding near a clothing wreck, and they must have nearly passed out from relief when Xander suddenly exited the store. Carolin Tuft was able to crawl to

her daughter, Kirsten went out of nowhere. Xander burst back into the store and shot Kirsten once more in the head before he just as abruptly exited. When Xander walked out of cap'n Fever the second time, an off duty Ogden police officer named Ken Hammond was walking across the second floor of the mall with

his wife. The couple had just finished dinner at Rodizio Grill. Officer Hammond saw the shooter exiting cap'n Fever with a shotgun, and without hesitation, he drew his off duty weapon instructed his wife to go back into the restaurant and call nine one one. He then approached Xander, calling out that he was an off duty police officer. Xander fired at Officer Hammond before heading towards the center hallway. Watching this all unfold from inside of a store called Harouns,

Barrett Dodds became aware of the active shooter. He ordered a customer to lock the door before he left the store and walked towards the hallway on the second level. Xander saw Barrett and fired the shotgun at him and a couple of employees from a nearby restaurant. Xander walked purposefully back towards one of the earlier shooting victims, Stacy Hansen, and shot him again in the back. Barrett Dodds then heroically started yelling to Xander, quote shoot at me, Shoot at

me. Xander began walking towards pottery Barn Kids. As this was happening, Officer Hammond peered down the main level and saw Salt Lake City Police Sergeant Andrew Oblod enter the mall, so he called out to the sergeant that he was an off duty Ogden police officer Sergeant Andrew Oblod arrived at the mall, and the first thing he noted were the petrified shoppers racing out of the mall screaming that there was a man with a shotgun. When he entered the mall,

Sergeant Oblod heard Officer Hammond and saw him above on the second level. He motioned for Hammond to come down to the first level, which he did. Together, the two officers heard shotgun blasts. Officer Hammond took cover behind a pillar near the Pottery Barn Kid's Store, which he peered into he could see a portion of Xander's body and part of a shotgun. He leaned around the pillar and fired at Xander, who immediately fired back. Hammond once again leaned

around the pillar and fired off two more rounds. Sergeant Oblod ordered Xander to drop his weapon. Xander simply replied, in a sullen voice, quote, ook you, before firing at the officers again. The moment Xander stepped into the sergeant's line of sight, he fired twice. Unbeknownst to Xander, several Salt Lake City Police officers, including Detective Dustin Marshall, Detective Brett Olsen and Sergeant Josh Schlarman had approached from behind, fronted him, and after additional gunfire

was exchanged, the threat was finally stopped. The shooter was killed. Salt Lake City p Deep Crime Scene Unit, along with the Utah Department of Public Safety Crime Lab arrived shortly after to process the scene. Twenty nine shellcasings and nineteen nine millimeter shell casings were located, along with live shotgun shells, bullet fragments, and several shotgun wads. This included shots fired from police and shooter. Xander's car was searched and his license, an SLC library card, and

a receipt for the shotgun bullets were found. Additionally, Xander's house, which he lived in with his parents, was searched. When law enforcement arrived, they were tasked with giving a death notification that was served with a request to search the residents and most especially Xander's room. Xander's parents were visibly upset and didn't appear to have any clue what their son had done. The news was

breaking all over TV, which was playing inside of their living room. The couple just never dreamed it was their boy who could be responsible for so much devastation. They seemingly cooperated fully with police, providing all information they knew or thought might help. Xander lived in the basement of his home. The basement was made up of two rooms and a utility room. Inside of his bedroom was his bed, which you'd expect. It was what sat on the bed

that was noticeable. There was an empty shotgun case that was partly concealed by a pile of clothing. In the closet was a metal lock box that sat unlocked and empty. On the nightstand sat Xander's resident Alien identification card, social Security card, a gun cleaning kit, a check book, a Muslim prayer book, and a receipt showing the purchase of a Mosburg shotgun. The only thing the police didn't seem to find was an answer or reason for why this

horrific shooting took place. There was no manifesto, no note, nothing. Xander was born on October sixth, nineteen eighty eight, in Cerska, which is a town in the Vilsenica municipality of Herzegovina and Bosnia. His family immigrated to the United States in nineteen ninety eight. When he was nine. Xander

became a permanent resident receiving a green card in two thousand and five. He lived with his three sisters and parents, and he was something of a loner, preferring to avoid small talk, which meant that he usually only spoke when asked a direct question. Police spoke with all sorts of witnesses, family members, co workers, and teachers, but there was still very little known about

Xander and more importantly, why he committed the shooting. There was a loose connection to the Trolley Square Mall, insomuch as Xander lived near the mall at one point and frequented the mall as a youngster. Xander's boss indicated that he was basically a model employee. He arrived to work on time, completed assignments, and didn't cause problems or get into quarrels with others. Though Xander was

very quiet at first, over time he opened up a bit more. The boss said that Xander seemed anxious and spoke with a hand near his mouth as a sort of nervous gesture. Sometimes he became very introuted and then would become anxious, then back to being friendly again. At work, Xander was never one to initiate conversation. He would participate when spoken to, but he never talked first, and he almost always ate alone in his car at lunch.

These all seemed more like works rather than red flags that would raise suspicions. One family member said that she rarely saw Xander when she visited. Although he was never rude, he acknowledged her presence and even brought her something to drink. However, he would immediately retreat back to his room with barely more than a few, if any words. The same family member indicated that she could not recall if she had ever seen or heard of any friends that Xander had.

One witness that police interviewed stated that Xander once got into a fight at the mall. It was over a video game, and it's not clear whether it was a physical or verbal fight, but such an encounter seemed highly out of the norm for Xander. He started an online relationship with a female from Bosnia who was living in the US for about nine years. The relationship, which began on January twenty eighth, two thousand and seven, was with a

woman that we will refer to as Jennifer. Jennifer lived in Amarillo, Texas, and when she spoke with police, she guessed that Xander called her about eighty five times, while she called him about thirty two times. For context, this was over a two week period that was the length of the relationship. Jennifer told police that sometimes she and Xander talked in Bosnian, although they usually spoke in English. The pair communicated by phone since Xander told her that

he didn't have a computer. They mainly spoke about her, but Xander did tell her that he planned to visit her in Amarillo on March twenty eighth, two thousand and seven. He was going to stay with her, but she wasn't aware of him ever actually purchasing a plane ticket. Though they knew each other's names, Jennifer never looked Xander up and didn't even know what he even looked like until the shooting happened and photos of him were plastered on the news.

Interestingly, Jennifer claims that Xander only spoke highly of his sisters and family and never had a bad attitude or got angry. He seemed very kind and not at all political. They didn't discuss politics, and Xander told Jennifer he really loved living in the un United States, and she believed him because she had no reason not to She told police that they spoke for about three hours

on the phone the night before the shooting. There was nothing out of the ordinary about the conversation until the very end, when they were ending the call. Xander told Jennifer, quote, tomorrow will be the happiest day of my life. He also said that it could only happen once. Confused, Jennifer asked him to explain, but he refused to say. He just told her that once she knew certain things about him, she would never forgive him and

wouldn't want to know him anymore. Especially perplexed, Jennifer implored Xander for more of an explanation, but he again refused to say more. There were several other witnesses interviewed, including two specific witnesses who each claimed to have visited Xander at home weeks before the shooting and they'd all gotten high smoking marijuana. One of the witnesses said Xander listened to white supremacist music. Another witness claimed that

Xander was smoking methan opium and that he quote hated gay people. In the FBI's eventual report, it was noted that Xander made statements in two thousand and one or two thousand two about shooting white people like quote serbs. Despite these few witness statements, subsequent toxicology reports indicated no presence of controlled substances in Xander's system and no concerning activity was discovered online. There were no journals and no

evidence of radicalization. Xander's body was transported to Telovic in eastern Bosnia for burial. Shooting victim Carolyn Tuft is left to suffer from taxing headaches and frequent bouts of nausea. She had led poisoning as a result of the three hundred shotgun pellets that are still lodged inside of her body. This is nothing compared to

the debilitating pain of losing her daughter in l such a violent manner. Five officers, including Sergeant Andrew Oblod, Sergeant Joshua Sharman, Detective Brett Olsen, Detective Dustin Marshall, and Officer Kenneth Hammond, were each recognized for their courageousness on February sixteenth at the Utah State Capitol, a mere forty eight hours post shooting, The mall reopened its doors to the public. However, each individual

store within the mall was permitted to reopen at their own discretion. A memorial flowers and cards was erected near the mall's fountain. We all have the unique ability to help prevent such a catastrophic event from happening if we keep our eyes and ears open and never hesitate to report when something or someone just doesn't seem right. With the delicate balance of mental health reform, education, active shooter training, and common sense gun laws, we may one day realize the dream,

the dream that there will be no more active shootings. We pray that love will prevail over hate. Too many have died, we should say to ourselves, not one more. In the meantime, we urge our listeners to stay aware of your surroundings and keep in touch with your loved ones. If you see something, say something, you never know how many lives you'll be saving. Thank you for listening to today's episode of Active Shooter the podcast.

Remember, if you see something, say something, there's no telling how many lives you may be saving. A big thank you to Darren Curtis, who composed some of the songs on our show. You can find him online at www dot Darren Curtis music dot com. Make sure to check us out on social media. You can find us on Facebook at Active Shooter the Podcast, and on Twitter at podcast Active Thank you, and be safe.