I'm recording from what the hell is the tsunami? Sequoia... there we go, Sequoia. No, I've been do that for a little while now. Yeah, is it okay? Like, I just installed it today? Like, yeah. I upgraded on day one, so I've done all the episodes since then. I've heard absolutely nothing about it from anybody, so I guess it's fine. No, no, this is good news. Although you're gonna you're gonna hear more about it in the show today. Oh Wait a minute, did I make a mistake? No, it's fine. Oh, though Actually, I don't know if we have a better time to bring this up
now. I am really, really enjoying what is the official term for it? iPhone mirroring. I was going to say iPhone remote control, but iPhone mirroring. I used it all the time at first, I think in a small part because it was new and fun and fancy, but it is really convenient to be able to effectively, I don't think this is literal, but effectively, VNC into your phone and control it from your Mac. And it seems to do a pretty good job of like mirroring
the clipboard and stuff like that. The one thing that drives me bananas about it is that all of the different gestures that I've trained for the iOS simulator are not the same. So as an example to scroll in the iOS simulator, you have to click and drag, whereas in this, you scroll. And command shift H in the iOS simulator is hit the home button. And in this, command one of all things, which like fine, it's an easier gesture, but it is so wildly different
than what we're used to. So as an iOS developer, it's kind of a pain in the butt, but in every other way, it is freaking great. And it'll even pull through audio if I'm not mistaken, holding down that like once or twice. But I genuinely, I'm not just saying this because you're sitting right here, Marco, I genuinely think that the overcast Mac OS app as long
as you're running on an Apple Silicon Mac, Hyjon is actually pretty good. But if you don't fancy that or for some reason, you can't install it on like your work computer or whatever, but you can do the iPhone mirroring thing, you can pull the audio right through and use overcast on your iPhone, even though it's connecting, you know, it's sending the audio through your Mac. It is really well done. And I've been really impressed with it. And I don't think we had talked about it yet on the show.
Because I honestly, I haven't even used it yet. So I wouldn't have said anything about it. John doesn't use iPhones. So he wouldn't have said anything about it. We did talk about it. I'll actually maybe it was wrecked us. We were talking about using it to rearrange stuff. That was wrecked, I believe. All right. Anyway, I have used it. Yeah. Did you know that iPhone mirroring works on Intel Macs? I'm actually a little bit surprised. I really honestly am. I mean, but that's good.
Like if you want to use overcast on your Intel Mac, that's how you do it. That's true. Actually, I didn't think about that. Yeah. Yeah. There's a website too. I hear. There is an overcast website, allegedly. It may or may not last for long. But it's there. We were discussing a couple of notebook LM podcasts, one of which was a regurgitation of one of your posts, John, one of which was a semi regurgitation of your pasta recipe,
which I saw a handful of people asked for, which I got a chuckle out of. But apparently, we may or may not have messed something up. Can you explain what's going on here, please? Regurgitation is actually a good word. I'll get to that in a second. But many people pointed out that one of the things I was complaining about the generated podcast that it didn't
mention a specific example from my article. It did mention it. Basically, I totally missed when I mentioned it because it was at the very beginning and I was too busy snarking about something else. But the other reason I missed it is that it mentioned it, but then used it as like, it was the dimension of like emailing the artist to do something. It uses it as an example of the person who created it, maintaining the copyright. So the artist
creates it. They have the copyright for themselves. When I expected them to use it as I did as an example of transferring the copyright in exchange for payment. So I apologize to the notebook, L.M. podcasts for missing their mention of that at the very top because I was too busy snarking about something else. But do you think it has follow up? Yeah, that's one place we definitely got the beat. There's not going to be a follow up podcast unless
you specifically spoon feed it to them. But Casey's word that he used that I'm glad he used that because I couldn't think of a good word for it. I was trying to think before the show started how I should describe this. The more I thought about and discussed the notebook L.M. podcast with people like just going back and forth on Massadon and stuff
about it. The more it seems to me that the podcast had generated like the best way to describe them would be like at least for the first portion of it as sort of a I was going to say a paraphrasing of the content regurgitation is similar and then it's like, okay, so here's the article and then the the hosts of the podcast, the AI hosts of the podcast. Basically do the equivalent of rewriting the article into podcast speak like they just speak it out loud
rather than reading it. But they're not doing anything more than trying to basically rewording sentence by sentence point by points in slightly different orders, which is different than summarizing right regurgitation. I think I get this the word I couldn't come up with in case you can't really think it's a really good word because they are throwing back at you everything that was in the article in a slightly less pleasant form, but it's all
there. And then in the second part where they sort of riff reform on it, it's more like they just took some of those words and again looked at the Wikipedia pages that are related and went back and forth. And I feel that's that's part of why I think a lot of people when they hear these generated podcasts think they go on too long is that they are like they're longer than the article. You could have just read the article and we take it less time.
And it's not because they have a lot of commentary because they take a long time to get around everything. Anyway, we talked about that last episode if you want to hear those podcasts. If you skip them last time and you want to hear them, you can take a look. But I will say that doing the live commentary on something you've never heard before is a lot harder than it sounds as a reason like a mystery science theater 3000. They pre-write and script
all those jokes, believe it or not. They just don't do it in real time. I don't ruin the illusion. No, I mean, so in notebook LMS defense, like, you know, number one, I think there is a lot of media out there is just regurgitation of some source post or source material or source press release. So like there is a place for that. But also in notebook LMS defense, in each of those two examples, I only gave it one article.
Like I think the actual use of the tool is meant for larger data sets. Like, oh, I have these 15 documents or all these different sources that I'm trying to, you know, get some info out of or summarize or make, you know, get some bullet points out of when you feed it more information, it would not necessarily behave exactly like that. I mean, it would still generate the same type of thing with some of the same benefits and pitfalls. But it
would have more broad source material in most uses. But it's not just limited. Like, I don't know the dope, no, the details notebook LMS, but I have to think that it is what Apple would describe as a quote world knowledge LM because the parts where I was complaining that it sounded like it was reading for wiki pdf page, it clearly has lots of world knowledge in like before you feed it anything, right? It could comment on AI and all those things.
That wasn't in the article. That's why I'm like, oh, it's reading from wiki pdf page. Again, about some just, it has a lot of general knowledge. That's what it's bringing to the table. So yes, you only fed it the one article, but it's got however many billions of words that it was trained on. I'm just glad I could contribute a recurrence station to the likes. Yeah. That's good. And you know, like Mark said, sometimes that's exactly
what you want. And that we, or we have tons of forms of media out there today where that's what we pay people to do because it is a service. Like it saves you the trouble of having to have, you know, read the thing yourself or whatever. Usually you want it to be either compressing it or adding some analysis or insight, but even just straight regurgitation does have
a role. I'm not sure I'd want those particular AI hosts doing the regurgitation, but you know, to each their own, you know, to be fair, like I, there is, there are lots of things in my life where I would want real humans doing a podcast about whatever I want to hear
about. But I can't say there's nothing I would ever want this kind of thing to do. Like, I don't, this kind of thing, like I don't intend to make it a big part of my life, but like, I probably will actually use it for something sometime, but either in, either this exact product or some future version of it. What was that thing that Merlin talks about? Like the shipping news thing, some people
in the UK know, I don't really know. Like the maritime report. Yeah, the maritime report where this human would read it with a certain intonation and basically just, he's reading off like the weather report or like whatever. Like it's just, it could very easily be done by an AI train voice because it's very standardized. There's no riffing or anything, but people find it comforting and they like to have it read to them in whatever that pleasing British
person's voices. Can we talk about the camera control buttons on Apple's cases, John? Yep. I kept referring to like the thing that Apple puts on them to transfer the capacitiveness of your touch as a quartz thing, but it's not. It's sapphire. Many people wanted to correct me on that. I'm happy to be corrected. I just want some of them in case with a sapphire or like it doesn't even have to be sapphire. It can be that plastic thing with the metal
things through it. I don't know. Something that's not a big hole and another week has gone by, another week filled with Instagram ads for iPhone cases and another week without me finding anything exciting or good. Well, I have a case from Spegan here that just arrived today that has a button overlay. Yeah, they're out there. Like I said, there's the one with the copper dots or is it a sapphire thing? It appears to be just solid white,
but you can tell, but it has a rim. Like if you look real close, you can see like there is a rim around its perimeter of some other material. So I think it might be doing the same trick Apple does with theirs of just like some kind of solid material that with like a conductive rim around the outside, but it does work. It's the Spegan clear case. I'll put a link. They have a thousand cases. And you go on Amazon, you try to find this
exactly one. You won't find it. There's just going to see of other cases often by them. So it's hard to find. But anyway, I'll put a link. Somebody else, I think, referred me to it. And as a clear case goes, it's fine. It's not, it's better than Apple's in certain ways. The buttons feel better. It does unfortunately have a closed bottom, unlike Apple's. So that keeps getting in my way. And it's a clear case. So like it looks okay.
It doesn't look amazing. But we actually have other case recommendations or at least experiences. Yeah, the case situation has grinned, but many, many people want to suggest cases. And I've gotten the main reason I want to read these out is to stop people from suggesting. Oh, gosh. Maybe someone else will find them useful. So here's the first one. This has been suggested for years, not just this year, but every year we talk about cases.
There is a contingent of people who really like this case. And maybe, you know, one of the people's listening, they might like this case too. But the fact that they keep recommending it to me, bog goes my mind because it is like the opposite of everything that they want in case they're like, Oh, you want an open bottom? Well, how about this? I'll put a link in the show notes. This is the arch pulse case. I'm not sure if different brands have
similar designs in past years. And I would say case is a generous term for this. Yeah, this is the way the way we describe it is. It's like Princess Leia's metal bikini from Return to Jedi, but for your phone. That's exactly what this is. It is a very uncomfortable looking piece of metal that just sort of covers the corners of your phone. It goes like around the camera, Mesa, and it covers the top and bottom corners of the phone and has
an open bottom. And that's it. They're like, this is great because really, you just need the corners to be protected because that's the main part that's going to hit the ground if you drop it or whatever, which I'll just pause right there and say, that's mostly true. But it is very, very possible to drop your phone onto something like, say, a set of cement stairs or something where you will hit the sides. And maybe your screen doesn't
break, but you're going to scar up the side. So I'm right away. I'm not even accepting the premise that the corners are the only thing you need to protect. But why would I like this? I want a leather case for the grippiness of the leather. And I want it to cover everything, including all the buttons and including the camera button with a, you know, a pastor thing, you have some kind of there. So this is absolutely nothing like anything that I
want out of a case. And yet people keep recommending it to me. So, A, please stop and B, if you want a case like this, I've never seen one because it is a very rare, very interesting form of case. We will put a link in the show notes. And you can try it out because it basically gives you the feel of a naked phone with substantial protection for the corners.
And actually, building off of that, the opposite of that is the next section. If you want a totally textured back, but no protection of any of the corners or sides, there is this entire category called leather or just magnetic case backs. It's basically a flat plate of some material, oftentimes leather, that uses MagSafe to stick itself onto the back of the phone and just covers only the back and not the sides.
Yes. And many people are suggesting this because, hey, guess what? Open bottom. Also open top. Also open left. Also open right. Right. And honestly, this is actually closer because it does have leather on it. So I can see people saying, hey, you want a leather case and you want an open bottom. Just, you know, I have to worry about the camera pastor because
there's nothing on the sides. I do find these attractive, but I will clarify that the leather I want on my phone is partly and maybe for the most part, the majority wise, for the sides because that's where I grip my phone and the leather makes my phone grippy when I grip it from the side. So not having anything on the sides is not a feature for me. And then yes, obviously there's the fact that I do drop my phone. I do actually want some additional
protection. And yeah, the leather or the goes around helps with that. But if you want a case that's not really a case, but has a really nice look to it and it looks like it might be comfy on the back. Hey, there's lots of magnetic back thingies that aren't really cases. These caught my eye because back in the iPhone 4 days, I had, for my iPhone 4, I had basically a stick on piece of leather that had a little tiny circle cut out for the
camera on the iPhone 4. It was exactly what this creates. Metal sides, otherwise no case feel, but a very nice textured leather back for grip. And I think, honestly, for looks. And that I was so happy with. I freaking love that thing. Just a stick on piece of leather for the back. That was it. Granted, the phones were a lot smaller and lighter back then. So grip and cyber texture were not quite as as needed as they are today. But it was glorious.
So I decided to try one of these. The one that most people recommend is by Nomad Goods. I actually ordered that one as well. I'm going to compare it. But the one I've been using for the last week is by this brand Suti Suti. And I also found one by Adam Studios, ATOM Studios. They have a whole bunch that use like vegan leather. So I'm going to try one of those as well. The reason why I got one and I'm now ordering three is that I freaking love
this thing. Like I don't know if I'm going to stick with this form factor. But it looks and feels fantastic. It does, however, as John pointed out, offer really no protection against drops at all. Like if you drop your phone, do not do this. If you don't drop your phone and you just want some extra grip and some texture and some looks and maybe some surface grippiness, like when you lay it down on a surface, you don't want to feel like it's sliding
off all the time. This could be it. I am, I think it's really, the Suti one is the one I have so far. I think it's really, really good. The only reason I started branching out to the Nomad and the Atom Studios ones is that the Suti one, the leather is only the flat part of the back. As it rounds the corner around the edges, there's like a big plastic gasket that goes around the whole thing. So it's not as grippy around the edges. Whereas
the Nomad and the Atom Studio ones, the leather appears to wrap around the edges. So I'm kind of curious to see how that feels. Feel the different kinds of leather. In particular, the Atom Studios one is a mentioned that's, that's a plant-based fake leather. So that honestly is more attractive to me if it's good. So I'm going to see how these work. But honestly, this is an interesting option. I, I, because then you are using all of the
actual buttons on your phone. So you don't have to worry about buttons feeling bad or being covered or uncovered or anything like that. And again, it looks, I think it looks fantastic. Like the, I have the white phones. I have like the bright silver band around it with this, the black leather plate on the back. I think it looks really good.
I think it'll look good too. And that is a good point that one of the reasons I do like leather is for the surface, like when I put my phone down, screen up on a surface, like the couch arm or something that gives a little bit of extra friction for it not slipping off. But yeah, unfortunately, I need to have the side. That's the whole, that's the main
reason I want leather is those side grips when I'm holding my phone. Yes. As soon as I use, I use this for like two hours and I immediately ordered another one and ordered an apple care. Yeah. You're got, I guess you're also getting the same ads that I am Instagram for a cactus leather. That's how they brand some of the plant-based leather. Oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah. There's all sorts. I've tried pineapple leather before. Like it, there's
a whole bunch. Yeah. I mean, I, I, honestly, apple, I mean, well, apple seems to kind of stuck on the clothes bottom with the exception of their clear case and the beads case. But apple really needs to go back to the leather well and just be like, find something that looks and feels like leather, but that is not leather. Every other company in the world is doing it. There's so many variations. Plastic, plastic cactus pineapple, like whatever. Try something.
But yeah, fine mold wasn't it. Yeah. And to be fair, like a lot of these, you know, the non, you know, cow based, you know, other leathers that are plant-based, there is oftentimes I think a non-trivial amount of carbon footprint there. Yeah. Plastic isn't great for the environment. Yeah. They're plastic-based or they're otherwise, you know, petroleum-based in some form. So like I think there's a lot of, I think it's a tricky problem for them
to solve. And then they have to scale it. So, you know, there's, it's certainly not a trivial thing for them to do, but I think they can do it. Yeah. I don't know. I'm still going caseless, although I will say I have come crawling back a little bit to my pop socket. Oh, no. I know. My goodness. You've become a pop socket dependent. I know. I have. It's terrible. And I don't know what the issue is. Maybe it's because I don't have, because
the back is so slippery, like you were both saying. Yeah. Maybe you should try a case. A case might be your pop socket. It's not a pop socket. Yeah. But I don't like it if the case is. So you don't want a case, but you're going to stick this, I mean, I know pop sockets compress to be really small. But once you're doing that, just like try a case. Try Marcos back leather thing. I was looking at them. I'm probably about to
have two that I don't want. So, you know, am I going to get a box? Hey, you know, my, my Kindle charging port, I think is on its way out. So if you want to send a leather case pad, it didn't Kindle. So let me know. Honestly, like the way it looks with the suit you one that I have, like, it looks like a nice camera. You know, you have aluminum and black leather. Like it, it just looks really nice. And again, it feels great. Although
that, that leather look a little bit rumbly. I don't like the one from blue leather. Oh, yeah. It's like textured. Yeah. Yeah. It's like lizard, lizard skin or whatever. Yeah. We are sponsored this week by tail scale. Tail scale is incredible. It's the easiest and best way to connect devices and services to each other, no matter where they are. That is the blurb they wanted me to read. But let me tell you, and they can't pay me to say
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out. Again, they cannot pay me to say this. This is incredible software that I use all the time all day every day. Tailscale dot com slash ATP. Thank you to tail scale for sponsoring the show. All right, Marco. We have hopefully tons of suggestions from you since you've done all your homework about sleep tagging apps, about Windows anti malware, about active transparency. So in the hours of homework that you've performed, can you tell us some
results, please? Honestly, it might have actually been that long. So I requested a couple of recommendations last episode. The one was for an app for me to tag my sleep each night that I've done tracking with the Apple watch to tag it with arbitrary tags, things like beach or alcohol, like whatever things that might affect my sleep. And then I want to be able to see over time, like, if I have a heavy meal, like if that's one of the tags heavy
meal, like, is that does that make me sleep worse? And it's like 15% worse if you know, every time I have that kind of stuff. That's what I wanted. And I complained last week that the apps that I had tried to find that claim to do this were all these massive, complicated, comically privacy invading and surprisingly expensive subscription based apps that all tried to be everything to everyone to solve every possible sleep or fitness
or health need you might possibly have. I got a lot of recommendations from a lot of people. I tried them all. I have not found what I'm looking for. Oh, no. All I have found is mostly more very expensive, very privacy invading apps that try to do everything to everyone. Like that it is, it is such a mess of like these massive sleep suites. Like
we, we're not going to just solve your sleep. We're going to solve your, your workout recovery and your health and your stress and all this and it's and they have all these massive or easy features. Almost every single one of them requires you to make an account on their service to hold your health info. And almost all of them force you to subscribe to their subscription as I described last time with, with no way to close the box and skip it or
anything. So you can't, you know, and they're like, you know, 40 bucks a year for almost all of them. So I'm like, first of all, like the app store is, it's getting, it's always changing. It's the app store certainly always changing. This is not a category that shows off the best of the app store by, by any means. So anyway, I am still looking, I'm getting
on a little bit tired of looking at my take a break. I have, I have yet to find this app and I'm starting to think that maybe I just should not be doing this need to write it. He's just, he's notes just write down every day when you go to bed. The time you had to bed and notes any tags, you just write them his words with comments between them. And then if you ever want to look at like, honestly, this really still reminds me of the exist
of my own stuff. Like, I'm lighter when I eat sausage. Or, you know, like, I don't know. I take more steps when I'm at the beach. Like, I don't know what you're hoping to get from this. Huh. So I'm the, I'm this, uh, the number of data points I have is five. None of those it says, uh, inconclusive. When I eat a big meal, sometimes I sleep well
and sometimes I don't. Like what, what do you, you're, you're hoping to get actionable information about it out of this, but I feel like your data set is going to be too small for you to get actionable informational letters. Something really obvious. And if there's something really obvious, we don't need an app to tell you when I eat spicy food, I get heartburn. Like, I'll tell you that now. I mean, spicy food you can heartburn. Like,
so I just use notes right down. You've got your app right there. And then you can scroll back through those notes and look for patterns. And if you say, well, it's really hard to find patterns in these notes. I wish an app could do it for me. The app's not going to do any better. It's not going to like, it's not a pattern that you can see. You can write a little program that reads your notes and tries to do some sort of statistical analysis,
but you'll find out you have too few data points. And it's just noise. That's, I mean, and that you certainly touch upon like, I think it makes your problem with almost any kind of sleep tracking and quantification of that kind of stuff. It is not particularly actionable a lot of time, because usually everyone knows, yeah, you should probably get more sleep. You should probably drink less coffee. You should probably not have alcohol. Like, you
know, everyone knows these things. I'd coffee before I went to bed and I had bad sleep. Right. Yeah. Like last night, I was congested. I took suit of fit. That was a terrible idea. My sleep sucked because of my heart rate was way up for the whole night. I can see that already. And I know, hmm, I probably shouldn't take suit of it, even though my nose is stuffy, and maybe it would have been worse, but who knows? Like, you know, it like I kind of know
what I shouldn't do already. But I was just, I was hoping to find other insights. But you are right. Like the action ability of those is limited and challenging. But ultimately, the app I want is a very, very simple thing that does only this and exactly the way I
want it. So someday, maybe I'll make that app. I think that's the answer. The, well, the answer is, you know, I've only been talking about the, the thing that the actions you would take with the app, which is when I go to bed, I know this, I know the X, I know how my sleep was, I know I tag with things that it did. But then what's step three? Like, say you had an app that did that. Presumably, you're not entering this information just
for the hell of it. You want some, the app or you are something to do something. That's the, I feel like the hard part. What happens after you have a tag my sleep app and you tag your sleep for a year? Then what happens? Right. That's, and that's, that's the challenge. It's like how actionable would it be? So for instance, if I, if I learn like, oh, when I, like I sleep better at the beach, then not at the beach. Well, I'm also not like,
that's also not the school year, first of all. So like, maybe I just sleep better when it's not the school year because I'm not waking up super early. Like that's, oh, there's different stresses or different logistics. Like, so, or, and it's like, I can't really just live at the beach all the time during middle school and high school. So like, I'm
not able to do anything about that. So like, and that, that's kind of my, I think long term, I think what I, what I would realize if I actually endured one of these other apps that does a thousand of the things, plus maybe some version of this feature, I think
I would probably find that. I would probably find like, I would tire of the manual entry and I would tire of, you know, but, but, but the time I actually had a lot of data, I think I would find limited insights, which is probably why I shouldn't make this. Like, like, this is, I have so many app ideas that I eventually talked myself out of. Like, this is why I haven't made a podcast editor. Like, I shouldn't make a podcast editor
for lots of reasons. And I haven't. I should probably not make a jam band music listening app either. And I so far haven't. No, you shouldn't because there's going to be some sort of anti-dave Matthews band, something or other in there. Like, what was it that I just wasn't going to talk about? Yeah. Yeah. What was Alan Pike's app or steam clock set? Yeah. It was, it was a DJ app that it wouldn't play, um, Nickelback, Nickelback. Yeah.
And this was from Canadians, no less. Um, no, I, I, I will take issue with your inevitable jam band app and your anti-dave Matthews band hatred, which is unnecessary. But I do think this is your next app because it's a fairly simple, I think, or at least out of glance, it seems like a fairly simple collecting the data is simple. You can make an app that does that. But then what does it do with that data? How does it even present you the
analysis that you want it to perform well on? How does it perform that analysis? It's exists.io. You're making exists.io. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. I think the answer is I probably shouldn't make this app because I probably don't really want it. Yeah. That's probably true. Well, that was productive. And the.io domain might be going away. So. Did we just do, uh, ETP diamond dogs? A little bit, except you talking me out of something. That's
what we're supposed to do. Less. And my thing, it was talking me out of something. It was successful. I didn't do it. We're so good for each other. Maybe you should. Except you shouldn't. All right. So I also, um, I asked for anti malware windows software recommendations and got a few good ones. Um, pretty much everybody said, yeah, just use malware bytes. And, and many people suggested I definitely should not use crowd strike. Apparently it is really
not made for that. At least one person said you should do it because it would be fun for the podcast. Oh, that's true. In a way that it would be terrible. But anyway. So. Exactly. I installed malware bytes. I got the paid versions, but it would do like automatic scans. It found like seven or eight things. And I have not heard about it since, which is probably
a good sign. Finally, uh, in the Marco corner here, sorry, it's been a long time. Um, I mentioned a couple episodes ago, uh, when John was talking about the AirPods noise pass through modes and noise cancellation modes. Um, I had said that I had not found the adaptive transparency mode very useful. And we heard from a bunch of people who were written to say, it's amazing. I use it myself. It's gotten better since it launched. Try it again. So since
then I have been trying it again. And I still don't love it. It however it is better than it was. Um, I'm not going to use it most of the time. I'm still going to stick with transparency and noise cancellation that I that I toggle manually when I feel like it. Uh, but the issue I found with it, so like I, one of the days I was walking around Manhattan a lot with it. And so, you know, decent amount of, you know, taking this big long walk in Manhattan.
So a lot of street noise, a lot of road noise. And I'm trying to listen to a podcast. I tried it then. And what I found was I was actually, it was blocking out too much information. So the point where I couldn't hear vehicles that were like turning into my crosswalk area. And that's not good. That's, I found it to be unsafe. Now there are tweaks. You can actually adjust the, some of the noise levels and things like that. It became somewhat
adjustable since it's, it's, it's introduction as well. So it is getting better all the time. But I found it, it was not good enough. And it blocked out too much of this round of noise from my own purposes. But that being said, like your purposes might be different. It's very situationally dependent. You know, whether this is right for you or not. So I'd say if you have AirPods Pro and your cares about the kind of stuff, try adaptive mode,
because it is different. It like it is better than it used to be. And it is different from the other two modes. Give it a shot. It was, it was enlightening even though I'm choosing at the end of the day, not to use it most of the time. Yeah, I agree that it's definitely worth trying again. I had mostly sworn off of it after having a not great initial experience. And I do think it's actually that and conversation
awareness. Neither of them are great. But both of them are better than I thought they were and better than I think they initially were. The one thing that I'd really just like about transparency mode is that I wanted to filter droning noise out quicker. So as an example, I think it was yesterday, I mode the lawn and I had transparency mode on. You mean adaptive transparency, right? What did I just call it? You keep selling a transparency, which is a different mode.
Oh, yes, I'm sorry. You're right. Yes. This whole time I'm an adaptive transparency. Thank you. So I had adaptive on when I started the lawn mower and it took a solid like three, four, five seconds for it to decide, okay, I need to filter this out. Is that a big deal? Of course not. But you know, I don't feel like it's really saving me that much trouble from just deliberately putting on noise canceling mode. If I felt like I knew I
was going to need it. So I'm still sticking with it for now and just messing it or just kind of going about my day when I do have my AirPods in and seeing what I think of it. But I'm not sure I'm going to stick with it. But I do absolutely agree with Marco, especially if you haven't tried it in a long time, it's worth trying out again and seeing if it works
better for you. I think that delay is actually a feature or at least it was cited as a feature by many people who are recommending that they like the idea that it'll let you hear the loud sound briefly before it tamped it down as a way of letting you be more aware of what's going on around you. Yeah, that's fair. I, you know, based on all the people
recommending it, I also gave it a second try. One update on that, Marco was saying, hey, you can change the things that are available as you cycle through the various noise canceling modes. Pretty sure that's only a feature on the pros on the AirPods 4 with active noise canceling. The UI looks different in the setting screen and I cannot choose to not have one of those things in the rotation as far as I could tell. No, anyway, I left them on
the rotation and I have been trying out adaptive. And I think I found some instances where I use it, but especially, I mean, this may be different on the pros because their characteristics are very different, but for the AirPods 4 where they don't actually seal your ears and sound is always going to get around them. I find that adaptive transparency is noise cancelling when it chooses to cancel out a noise like a droning noise or like, you know, white
noise type of thing. It's just not as good as full noise cancelling. When you put on full noise cancelling, it cancels more noise. And so I've been using adaptive kind of around the house without conversational awareness, but I think with the personal volume thing where it tries to crank up the volume when things get loud around you, I think that's
a good bounce for me. But when I'm like, for example, in bed and I watching something on my iPad, I switch to straight up noise cancelling because of my UI has like the window fan on or something, right? Noise cancelling, at least with the AirPods 4 cancels noise way better than the best adaptive ever even attempts to do. So I have found a place for adaptive in my life and I do use it when I'm just like walking around the house, but I still go
into full noise cancelling. So I kind of wish that adaptive was like full noise cancelling when it felt like it was safe, but not, but I guess I may be asking too much. I'm kind of asking for adaptive to be like a, for it to pick which mode it wants to do. Like, I want adaptive to be a thing where it says, I see your other three modes and I cycle
you between them based on what I think is safe, but that's not how it works. So adaptive is in my rotation, but I still have to manually choose the mode that I want occasionally. So it remains a mode in your lineup. Yeah. Alright, iPhone 16 can wirelessly recover from other phones using a phone to phone resuscitation. So this is reading from our technical, if you've ever had an iPhone upgrade or excuse me,
update, go bad. You may have used recovery mode to resuscitate your device. A device booted into recovery mode can't do anything by itself, but it can be connected to a working Mac or PC with a cable. And that Mac or PC can download a fresh copy of iOS and all of your phones related firmware to restore it to a factory default state. You'll need a backup to recover your personal data, but it beats having to take a trip to the Apple store,
send your phone in for repairs. The new iPhone 16, 16 Pro models had a new option for phones that are in recovery mode, rudimentary wireless communication. So phones that need to be recovered can be placed near another iPhone or iPad and can be restored without using a cable, a PC or a Mac. I like to see Apple continuing this long march towards essentially making the phone more of an independent entity. Like so much, we obviously we all have Macs and we assume everyone
if they don't have a Mac that they have a PC, but that's just not true, right? And anything that you do with an iOS device, like if you've ever tried to help someone and you say, oh, just connect it to your Mac or PC and they're like, what? Why would I need a Mac or PC? I just have my phone and you realize, oh, not everyone in the world has a Mac or PC or wants a Mac or PC and any part of the phone process that requires a Mac or PC is like
broken. And so Apple doing this by saying, okay, well, maybe you don't have a Mac or PC, but maybe you have an old phone. Obviously, if you're in a situation where your thing is hosed and you need something else to help you recover, you do have to have something else, but allowing that something else to be a phone, I think it's great. And it makes me wonder what the heck they're waiting for on the watch, which is still completely dependent
on the phone. I mean, obviously there's a synergy there where they want you to buy a phone and a watch, but they want you to buy a Mac too. But I feel like the phone is overdue for a little bit, you know, take off some of the train wheels, let it be a little more independent. Hey, it's got its own phone number. It can make phone calls, but it's still so tied to its parent phone. And I think they should edge that along, but it's nice to see the phone continuing to assert its independence.
Do you think that this is indicative of perhaps non-profones going without a cable at all? We've been talking about this for years, like no ports, no ports. I don't think this indicates that that's where Apple is going, especially since the response from USB-C seems to be universal praise, but it makes me wonder. It makes me wonder. Yeah, maybe like Apple doesn't seem to be in a hurry. I don't think users are in a
hurry either. Like, I feel like it's kind of one of those things, kind of like USB-C, that when Apple finally decides to do it, it will be after the point when it's, you know, they'll let it be non-controversial, right? If it did today, it would be controversial, but there's a little common point where a few people will care about it and they'll just
do it. But as someone who continues to charge with the wire pretty much all the time, except when I'm in the car on the MagSafe mount, I still could give it a few more years before they go for wireless. Honestly, I don't see it happening. I think phones use too much power and the inefficiency and inconvenience in a lot of cases of wireless charging like the
carbon neutrality, yeah. Yeah, obviously, you know, carbon neutrality over the last time of the product, like you would, it would go up like what, 30% or something if it was wireless only? I do wonder how many people like what the percentages are, only Apple knows, but like how much wireless charging used to be zero percent because the phone didn't support it. Right now, what percent of phone charging in terms of like, I don't know, battery capacity or
milliamp hours added to the phone is that? And then you do the math on the massive inefficiency of wireless charging versus wired and see how much waste heat we're throwing out and how much energy that adds. Yeah, that could be another thing keeping Apple from doing this for a while. Well, I think also like, I mean, how many like regular's out there do you see using magsafe for wireless charging instead of, instead of cables? I see almost no one using it.
Yeah, it's a good pop culture thing to watch. Like in pop culture, you will very often see people complaining in modern TV shows and movies that their phone is out of charge and they're desperate to find a charger and they're always plugging a wire into it, right? We'll know that that turnovers happen when in pop culture we see the person who's desperate for their phone to be charged. I don't know, sticking it to a magsafe. I'm not even sure how they would do it. But yeah,
obviously that's a trailing indicator, not a leading indicator. But, uh, yeah, the wires are still pretty prevalent in popular media. Also, think about like the the practicality of that. Like, a lot of people carry a phone charger with them for whatever reason that, you know, a lot of people need to do that. Are they in a carry around like a USB plug and like a giant magsafe puck in
their bag? Yeah, magsafe pucks are not small. Right. And like, or what about like if you have to charge up from some like battery out of a vending machine, like people do that, that's a thing. Like how is that going to work? There are so many contexts where I think regular people just use wires to charge their phone the vast majority of the time based on just my anecdotal observation trade broken wires. Sure, whatever. But and oftentimes, you know, cheap third party ones, but like
bottom drugstore, of course, but, but like that's what people do. Let's, like, if I need a fast charge, like if my phone's low and I'm going to be, you know, at, you know, in my house for a while, and let me charge it up in 15 minutes, I'll use USB-C. I'll use it almost every time. Like, I think a lot of people use the wire. I think the whole idea of we're going to make a phone that has no port on it whatsoever. I can't say they would never do that, but I can't see that ever being the mainstream
phone option. Like, you know, maybe, you know, the rumor about the iPhone 17 slim that might come out next year, maybe something like that. If that wasn't intended to be the mainstream model, it's not enough room for USB-C. Yeah, like if there was, if that wasn't intended to be the mainstream model iPhone, maybe that could be a way they could get that. But I think most people don't want that.
Most people want a cable. Yeah, if you want to know how they're going to, how they could get to know cable in a way that is not controversial with people, rather than thinking of advances in wireless technology, you have to do as fast forward to the point where, I mean, who knows if we'll
get this far, but if silicon continues to advance and we don't, and the wall that we know we're inevitably going to hit is farther out than we think it is, you can get to the point where the total amount of energy inside a phone in the battery, you know, for all day battery life is just lower. And then you don't need like advances, super advances in charging technology. You use the same stupid inductive coils we have now, but because you're filling a battery that's a quarter of the size,
all these issues become much less, right? And if you have solid state batteries and they charge really fast, like, I think that's how you would get to it. It would essentially require advances, continued advances in silicon, which are slowing rapidly as we all know, and also advances in
battery technology. And then we get to the point where it's like, okay, well, all those issues they used to talk about about charging their phone and heater, whatever, that's ridiculous, because now it charges in 35 seconds off of an inductive coil and nobody cares. Yeah, for what it's worth, I very rarely use a cable to deliberately to charge my phone, you know, the bedside charger is a cheat charger, and Aaron's bedside charger is a MagSafe Puck, the original
version of it. We do have a spare laptop charger that I just happened to have laying around, downstairs, actually, by our turn table. And so that's our, with a cable, of course, and that's our oh no, I really need a bunch of charge right now, charger. And obviously if I'm plugging into due debugging or something like that, but for the most part, both of us, both Aaron and myself, and she is very normy in a way that I think we can all agree on not, we almost exclusively
cheat charge. I mean, this is one data point or two, I guess, but what it's worth. All right, end-end encryption is coming for iPhone to Android RCS messages. So if you recall, an iOS 18 Apple embraced or adopted RCS, which is a better version of SMS that supports,
you know, like delivery receipts and things like that, but it is not end-end encrypted. Well, apparently, reading from Mac rumors, the GSM Association or GSMA, the organization responsible for developing the rich communication services or RCS standard announced on Tuesday that it's working to implement the end-end encryption for messages sent between Android and iPhone devices, though no specific timeline for the implementation has been provided. Currently, not all RCS providers
offer end-end encryption. Google messages, which enabled end-end encryption, excuse me, by default, for RCS conversations last year is one of the exceptions. Apple's proprietary iMessage system also features end-end encryption, but this protection does not extend to RCS messages.
I'm sure how they're going to do this because I think the way Google did it, like you essentially need key exchange servers, like essentially the servers that Apple runs for iMessage that handle like negotiations between the parties and sort of like allow the end-end encryption to happen, right? They're not. They can't obviously. They can't see or infiltrate it. That's the whole point, but you still need kind of like a middle party to mediate the exchange. And so Google
has that. So if you're doing like Android RCS from another Android phone, it goes to Google servers, just like iMessage goes through Apple servers, but it doesn't help when you're using RCS between an iPhone and an Android phone, you don't get the encryption there. So the GSM Association is coming up with a standard of this, but then who's going to run the servers? Like does Apple stand up its own sort of RCS key exchange servers? Does Google open up its servers to everybody?
Do the carriers run the servers? And not quite sure how those are going to work, but it's good to see that they're working on it a little bit. It would be better if the RCS stator came out of the gate with a solution to this problem, but it absolutely did not. I want to ask Casey though, because I think you're the main one who is complained about having conversations with Android people and that dropping messages and everything. Have you actually used RCS to your
knowledge? And is it better than it was when you were just using SMS? I have some. Here's the funny situation. The one group chat, because I do exchange messages with individuals that are unandroid, but not terribly often, but there's one group chat that I talk on maybe once a week. And that is Aaron's brother and his wife, so my brother and sister in law.
Aaron's brother, my brother in law, is on Android, has always been on Android, will likely always be on Android, but my sister in law is enlightened in this regard and has had an iPhone since I've been since I've been interested since she's been part of the family. And so I noticed that I was not sending RCS messages in that group chat, and yet I did have an occasion to send a text to my brother in law, and that was RCS. So I think I've gotten screwed by my damn sister in law who has an
updated her damn phone dial, say, teen. Can I think that's the issue? So I haven't yelled at her yet to get on the update train, but I need to do so at some point. There's also some confusion about when the iOS messages app shows RCS like it's placeholder text in the text field to tell you that it's RCS, but in some cases it's not really RCS. It might just show that now, even when it's just doing MMS stuff, I don't know. There was some confusion about that, but anyway, good luck in getting
everyone upgraded and let us know if that proves your life. Yeah, I will say though that in the brief exchange that my brother in law and I had directly, it was definitely better. I got a delivery receipt as an example, which was nice. I mean, the big thing is the images aren't terribly over compressed. Right. Yeah, I feel I don't remember which conversation it was in, but I do feel like I did receive one image that was not, you know, potato quality, and that was a
extremely welcome improvement. So I was very happy to see that. Moving right along, Apple is still tweaking their screen recording app permissions, and they're further decreasing the pop-up frequency in Sequoia 15.1, reading from Mac rumors, and the release notes for the sixth beta of Mac OS, Sequoia 15.1 update. Apple says that users aren't going to see
as many screen recording permission pop-ups for apps they regularly use. Quote applications using our deprecated content capture technologies now have enhanced user awareness policies. Users will see fewer dialogues if they regularly use apps in which they have already acknowledged
and accepted the risks. So this, I mean, again, I don't know how this affects the thing we talked about in the past where you can just use the P list thing to override it, although one of the feedback that we got was that 15.1 was the one that used bundle identifiers in the P list instead of using paths to the application. So I guess that thing is still there. But like, I've now that we know that that exists until Apple invalidates that, this entire thing just seems like a waste of time.
Like, don't bother trying to do things to make it less annoying because the only reason that anyone would ever be accepted of any annoyance here is in exchange for increased security for the purpose they wanted to do. You know, so you don't have an app that's recording without your knowledge that you forget about it or didn't know about it and you want the OS say, hey, you might not know this or you might not remember this, but app access recording your screen. That is the supposed security
benefit, right? There are many possible scenarios in which that could be beneficial. But stuff like this where it's like, oh, if you use it frequently, you'll see fewer dialogues or if someone just sets the P list key or like according to I wish I should have pulled the quote from Snell, but he was saying his understanding is that every time you use the app, essentially, it kicks the can down the road a little bit farther for you seeing the dialogue. And if that's true, you could just keep
using the app every day and never see the dialogue. But like, like, what are we even doing here? If this is one Google search away from, you know, domestic abuse or making it so you never see this dialogue, we're not getting any benefit and you're just annoying people who don't benefit from this feature at all. But anyway, glad to see Apple still working on it. Great. John, can you tell us about hotkey registration in Sequoia, please?
This is a weird one. I came up because I actually used this. So this is Sequoia. Now requires global hotkeys to use at least one modifier that is not shift or option, possibly only for sandbox apps. I have been able to confirm that. Global modifier is like, if you know, I had to command shift three, take a screenshot, right? Doesn't matter what app you're in, that keyboard shortcut in theory works anywhere in Mac OS. That's a global keyboard shortcut. And in Sequoia,
you better use a modifier that's not shift or option or you can't do it. And the reason it's come up for me is I have a glow I had, although I think I still have it because I think the app's not sandbox. A global key modifier and keyboard myestro, which is option C, which centers the front most window, which is surprisingly useful if you're taking screenshots and stuff like that.
And that's a cool thing that keyboard myestro can do. And I use option C because I couldn't think of any app that I used where option C was a keyboard shortcut that I used frequently, but in Sequoia, if I guess if keyboard myestro was a sandbox app, that wouldn't work. And there's a comment in Apple's developer forums from an Apple frameworks engineer saying the following. This was an intentional change in Mac OS Sequoia to limit the ability of key logging malware to
observe keys and other applications. The issue of concern was that shifts and option can be used to generate alternate characters and passwords such as the zero with a line through it, which is shift option. Oh, so this is like basically apps can't, I guess again, maybe it's the only sandbox app. Can't monitor for keystrokes globally that use shift and option because those are a modifiers that you might use when typing a password. A lot of people in the forums also had
trouble parsing like, yeah, but is this like, how does it stop key logging? Aren't they just registering with this like an API call to register for a hotkey? They're just registering for option C. They're not going to see any other keystrokes unless someone hits option C. How could you get someone's password that way? It's very confusing, but clearly it was intentional. And so yeah, I hope you didn't have any global hotkeys that use either only shift or only option. That is a little wonky to
me, but whoever. Maybe they're reversed at a 15.2. Who knows? And then anonymous writes in, and says, I just learned that on select a max running Sequoia, there is USB-C liquid detection. I assume it works similar to how the iPhone does when wet in that it refuses to charge and pops up a dialogue warning you that the iPhone may be wet with the always inadvisable and baffling option to override and charge anyway. I've encountered this warning before after using my iPhone
while in a pool. I thought it was dry enough and foolishly plugged it into charge. I ended up just charging wirelessly for a day or two. A significant benefit of having MagSafe. Related to this, I was at a UVA game this past weekend, and the ground was a little dewy, you know, I had a little bit of moisture on it because it was a new game because, well, whatever, I hate new games, but here we are. Anyways, I had a USB-C cable that I had let flop
on into the grass that I was using to charge my phone. And when I put it back in my phone, it took a few seconds, but all of a sudden, and I can't recall if Bluetooth audio playback had stopped at this point, or maybe it had continued, but all of a sudden I heard this like kind of distressing alarm coming from somewhere that was vaguely in the direction of both the speaker and also my phone. I eventually realized, oh, it's my phone. I don't think I've ever heard my phone make this noise
before. And, sure enough, I picked it up, and it was like, for the love of God, your USB-C port may be wet. It was very upset. And so I immediately unplugged the cable, and it was very happy again. But I had seen something like this maybe last year, but certainly on lightning phones. And it was far less aggressive, and it definitely, like I said, it made an audible alarm, which... Was it like the flash flood warning? It's similar, not quite so traumatic, but similar if memory serves.
But interestingly, it did so, even though I'm pretty damn sure the phone was silenced, because my phone is almost never silenced. It almost never allowed. And so it made that noise regardless. Which I get, you know, if this is a potentially dangerous thing for the phone, I get that it would override silent mode. But it was very striking and very surprising. It did give you the option to charge anyway, like this feedback. I don't think so, but I wasn't
looking that closely to be honest with you. Anyway, look for this coming soon to Mac near you maybe. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good idea. Like if they have these liquid detectors, and they can detect that there's liquid in the port, saying, hey, I know you just plugged it in, but I'm choosing not to charge, because I've detected liquid. And again, maybe not with an option to override. But
it may be in really human places. They get that every time they plug in. But yeah, it's good for Mac OS to get those features as well, because anybody who's got a USB-C port, there could be water in there. Yep. I mean, lightning too, but definitely with USB-C. All right, so we have some breaking news from I think day before yesterday as we record. Google apparently has to open Android up for third
party stores and a bunch of other things. And this is thanks to our quote unquote friends over at Epic. Reading from the verge. On October 7th, Judge James Denado issued his final ruling on Epic versus Google ordering Google to effectively open up the Google Play Store, excuse me, Google Play App Store to competition for three whole years. Google will have to distribute rival third party app stores within Google Play, which is different. And it must give rival third party app stores
access to the full catalog of Google Play apps. I'm sorry. What? Unless developers opt out individually. These were Epic's biggest asks. And they might change the Android app marketplace forever if they aren't immediately paused or blocked on appeal. And that's not all that Epic is one starting on November 1, 2024, which is in what like three weeks. And ending on November 1, 2027, Google must also number one stop requiring Google Play billing for apps distributed on the Google Play Store.
The jury found that Google had illegally tied its payment system to its App Store. Number two, let Android developers tell users about other ways to pay from within the play store. That sounds pretty cool. Number three, let Android developers link two ways to download their apps outside of the play store. Also very cool. And finally, number four, let Android developers set their own
prices for apps irrespective of play billing. However, Google cannot share app revenue, quote, with any personal entity that distributes Android apps, quote, or plans to launch an App Store or app platform. They cannot offer developers money or perks to launch their apps on the play store exclusively at first. They cannot offer developers money or perks not to launch their apps on rival stores. They cannot offer device makers or carriers money or perks to preinstall the play
store. And they cannot offer device makers or carriers money or perks not to preinstall rival stores. In Epic versus Google, Epic successfully argued that Google had created such a substantial array of deals with developers, carriers, and device makers that it was nigh impossible for rival stores to spring up. By blocking these sorts of deals and proactively helping rival app stores,
it's possible that some real competition to Google's monopoly could now arrive. Google will still have some control over safety and security as it opens up the Google Play Store to rival stores. The injunction says that Google can quote, take reasonable measures, quote, that are strictly necessary and narrowly tailored and are comparable to how it currently policy policies, policies, I don't know, the Google Play Store. The Google will be able to charge a fee for that policing too.
Epic has repeatedly argued that Google should not be able to deter third party app stores through policing. So it's likely Epic and Google will keep budding heads over this. Would anyone that we know deter third party app stores through policing? This is such a incredibly harsh judgment in a situation where Google was already way more open than Apple. And yet the jury decided you may claim that you're open, but you've constructed all these deals and all these incentives
that she really aren't open. So a, you're a monopoly and be the stuff you're doing in Paris competition. I don't think this bodes well for Apple. We'll see. Different cases sometimes Google has gotten worse judgments because they were claiming that they were open, but they weren't, whereas Apple never claims that they are. They're just like, it's totally closed, but like, oh, you know, it's
so hard for third party app stores to get going. You know, it makes it really hard for third party app stores to go and completely never allowing them at all in any possible way like Apple had been doing, right? But look at this. They have to distribute the third party. Is this if the Epic store had to be in the app store and it automatically got access to every app in the app store unless the developer opted out like this is so can you imagine this judgment going against Apple again
with the caveat of appeals blah blah blah who knows if this will end up, but wow. This is like the doomsday scenario for judgments on apps, though, it's all the apples worst nightmares come true and all epic streams come true with the exception of the security policing thing, which obviously they'll they'll argue about because like if you give if you give a company like Google any kind of lever, any kind of oversight or input into this process, Google will decide how they can use it to
try to get back to control that they're getting taken away by this. But man, I think this is this is in the US. So this is not a DMA. This is not the EU. This was the case. We've talked about it before Google was found to have an aptly how are they going to fix it? They're going to fix it by saying, yeah, Google all that stuff you were doing, you're not doing that anymore for three years. I don't
know why it's three years like when three years is over to just go back to the old way. This is slightly confusing remedy, but boy, this is I was about to say this is epic, but I'm not going to do that. This is extremely harsh. This is extremely harsh. Google cannot be happy. And I guess apples over there are thinking, well, boy, I'm glad that will never happen to us because we're so different than Google. I mean, it's so okay. In all fairness, the Google case had a lot of details that do not
that would not apply to Apple in the same way. Like it isn't what was ruled illegal or you know, bad behavior that requires action was not just them having an app store and you know, like and requiring their in-app purchase system. It's like, it isn't a directly applicable ruling to what Apple is doing. It's in the ballpark, but there's a lot of differences in the Google case. Like the actual things they were doing. Well, also because Google didn't totally disallow all this
stuff. They had a system that ostensibly allowed it, but then they did anti-competitive things to stop it from happening, which you would think isn't that isn't what Apple's doing even worse, but in the past legal cases, Apple has come out ahead because they're like Apple never even pretended they were allowing this. There's not they weren't, you know, illegally restraining what should have been competition. There never was any competition. It was never allowed at all.
And obviously, you think that's bad, but so far, this actually helped them in US cases. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, so this you can't really read into direct conclusions that would affect Apple. However, it does strike in the ballpark. And what this shows like if this actually is not legally, you know, intervened with like if this actually comes to pass, this is a pretty disastrous result in a lot of ways. And so much of it is like, okay, yeah, it is better for
consumers of certain things are open and competition is preserved and everything. However, the actual practical implementation of this remedy is going to be a mess for consumers and for developers, especially. So this kind of show is like the the risk that these big platform companies take by trying and failing to self regulate is that someone else will step in and regulate you
in some other way that you have a lot less control over. And that way might be disastrous. So it is within the company's best long term strategic interests to avoid this kind of regulation by not becoming an abusive monopoly by not doing things that are that are anti competitive and that might
violate and trust law in certain ways or that might tip off regulators that something needs to be done like ideally you as as these big platform companies avoid this kind of thing happening to you in the first place because when you play fast and loose and when you are too greedy and too short-sighted and you invite this kind of scrutiny and regulation and court cases, you run the risk of there being a massively destructive and non ideal resolution like this remedy.
I don't know how destructive it will actually be by the way. Obviously is destructive in that it destroys the thing that these people wanted to have because what they had before was what they wanted to have because they got to choose and that's what they wanted. But like as we've said many times over, I think it would actually be who these companies to have to compete right to to eventually have this competition force on them. What we would hope is that it would force them to
make better products and services because now there's competition. So all the things that we would be complaint about about these services they would say well there's no competition so they can get away with being that crappy because in the end they're still big and someone in the chatroom said Chris said the idea that you can't make a closed platform because the law explicitly says you can't is insane. Just to reiterate you can make a closed platform there's absolutely no problem
with that. The only time that becomes a problem is if you are if you are found to have monopoly power and found to have abused that monopoly power and if you're just making a closed platform you probably don't have monopoly power because you're thinking a little startup and it will take years and years and years if you're lucky for you to gain monopoly power and we could argue about is it a do-oply because Apple and Google are rare but there's no arguing that there is like
a diversity of competition in the mobile phone app marketplace. There's two things two main things especially in the US and the rest of the world there's more like in China and everything but like that amount of power is found to be by the EU obviously and also by US courts to require a
different set of rules to apply to you so it's not like you can't make things integrated or whatever it's like when you get to a certain size when when the decisions that you make I think Jason Stan will talk about this on an upgrade recently when when you get so big that the things that you
decide to do affect like the world economy and the competition across an entire industry that's when different sets of rules apply to you and it's easy for that to sneak up on you and it's easy for you to stay in the mindset of just like never give an inch keep everything and you wake up
one day and you're like the biggest company in the world and you and Google control mobile phones almost entirely yeah and you get these judgments to go against you and I think the other thing to be this interesting about this case is it was a case in the US and there was jury and the jury basically bought a lot of the arguments that are in the complaint that the DOJ is filed against Apple that that doing these things if you're if you're found to have monopoly power and you do these things
like you know tying you know tying your payment system to the app store the jury found that that's a thing that they shouldn't be allowed to do well Apple does that and you know it may you know paying people to not go into rival stores or wherever Apple doesn't do that
is they just forbid the rival stores but it shows that it there are US juries that are ready to say that these kinds of practices are not just oh that's just the way it is and I accept it but that apparently the lawyers are able to argue in a way that commands the jury that yeah they probably
Google probably shouldn't be allowed to do this not that no company should ever be allowed to do this not that this is illegal but that Google specifically because of the things that they have became convinced that you know Google has a legal monopoly power and so it's over with Google
shouldn't be allowed to do these things and a lot of those things are some of the same stuff that Apple does again surrounding circumstances are also different cases are different we'll see juries are going to be different the venue might be different we'll see how it goes but I don't it this is not
a neutral judgment for Apple I think this is at least a slight negative because it happened in their country and it happened to the company that is the closest to being like Apple even though again there are big differences and it happened with the US jury it found some of the same things
Apple does or illegal if you have an monopoly power yeah I wish I had had the presence of mine to reread the Stratekery articles that were about this and the Apple suit because I remember Ben saying he expected Apple to do better than Google but for the life me I can't remember what the
justification was for that as big as they never had an opening for competition so it was like the illusion of competition making you know deals all you can do X you can do Y you can do Z but then coercing them through other means is found to be worse than just saying look there are no relationships with third party stories we don't allow third party stories we never have we never will it's basically like when you buy the iPhone in the in the before DMA days when you buy the iPhone
you're not buying with any expectation that they're a third party stories where you bought an Android phone it's like oh Android is open I can get apps from anywhere but the Google was essentially disallowing I think that was the gist of one at least one of the arguments we need a podcast
somewhere else for us hey welcome back everyone no I I find this very fascinating and I also find it fascinating as someone who you know writes code somewhat for a living some of the requests that the judge is making the amount of rejiggering and rewriting and just code that is going to be
required to make this work I just can't fathom it like this is so much work I mean Apple was working on DMA stuff it might be less than what Apple did for the DMA though don't you think Apple wrote so much code to make sure that they could do what they wanted to do in the way they wanted
where they could have just said find their party app source you know what I mean like it's it's less work to allow more things and Apple works so hard it made so many frameworks sometimes necessary like trying to allow the browser and as well maintaining security like I think that was necessary
but sometimes not necessarily like yeah yeah but you know hey that's that's part of the danger of having a judge make go again so you don't get to decide suddenly you have to do a bunch of stuff not on your schedule not when you want to do it not how you want to do it but because a court
order you to do it and that's not no one wants to develop software that way but that's the danger of losing court cases if you had actually self regulated and been a little bit you know less controlling you could have set your own schedule to do stuff like this but didn't anyway
I don't know if the schedule is like if this will get appealed for the next five years and we'll be talking about this you know in 2031 Apple's carbon neutral but we'll see yeah I hear you I don't know it's it's wild I don't I don't know how it makes me feel that I'm kind of pleased that
Tim Sweeney has made all these changes happen and you know I bet if we were to listen back or have a podcast summarize our podcast for us if we were to listen back to the episodes and I think it was like late 2020 um about when Tim deliberately and epic deliberately started taking third party
payments in their apps you know they they had clearly planned to get evicted from the app stores both Google and Apple and it had like a whole site ready and waiting to go that they launched immediately after they got punted I I don't remember thinking of it fondly at the time and I
thought that they were being kind of pretty big turds but now looking back on it maybe it wasn't so bad oh no there'd be their turds too they're just turds in different ways well true like it because you know why does Epic want to run their own app store because they want 10% or 15%
of everybody's purchases like that of course they they want the to be fair they're taking a lower percentage and you know why because when there's competition you have incentive to undercut the competitor and especially when it's like you know 0% margin software you can undercut them
if you're willing to take less profit and for epic it's way more profit than not getting any profit from mobile platforms so they're willing to undercut Apple but yeah epic's epic's tactics are not always in great and sometimes they ask for unreasonable things but that's the result is
it's causing these these systems that have held up the two giant mobile platforms to come under scrutiny and to be judged and decided that they are actually impairing competition and here's how we should try to restore competition to the extent that benefits epic
ideally it would benefit anybody who wants to make a third party store is now more free to do so than they were before but we'll see we are sponsored this episode by delete me have you or someone you know been a victim of identity theft or harassed or stalked or doxed
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join delete me dot com slash ATP and if you're code ATP at checkout that's join delete me dot com slash ATP code ATP thank you so much to delete me for sponsoring our show i would like to enter sports corner please uh which i know it means i'm probably gonna
just joking and i'm probably gonna carry this whole thing by myself but that's all right uh there was an interesting article that uh buddy mine pointed me to earlier today um the title is Lionel Messi to mls has been ruined by apples paywall and i'm gonna read you a bit i tried to cut
this down as much as possible but i think we need to set a little bit of uh stage here in 2022 a 10 year 2.5 billion dollar deal was signed that kept most of mls this is major league soccer this is uh america's you know premier soccer league uh anyways kept most of mls exclusive to apple fox
and univision would occasionally be able to air a game but most of the league would now be behind a paywall apples deal would eventually help incentivize one of the world's most popular soccer players ever to finish his career in america as part of Lionel Messi's agreement with inter Miami
Messi gets a cut of the revenue from new subscribers to him all season pass apple streaming service from all his games as Messi's inter Miami inter Miami goes on a historic run clinching the supporters shield and award-given to the team with the best regular season record one has to question whether
the league's deal with apple has blunted the impact of one of the all-time greats playing in america Messi and inter Miami's dominance this season wasn't a major storyline that sports observers were paying attention to are covering highlights have appeared frequently on sports center major
online highlight factories like bleach report and over time have also haven't made much mention of Messi since he made his debut in 2023 it's hard for viewers to watch arguably the greatest soccer player in history during his run in the united states if the majority of his games are
behind a paywall there are no marketing marketing partnerships of depth with the big dogs of sports media and there's not much promotion done on linear television or even free online options like youtube it's a recipe for irrelevance we don't need to talk too much about this but i
thought it was fascinating that here it is you know soccer slash football we don't need to hear feedback on this please uh... soccer is arguably the most probably maybe not even arguably the most popular sport in the world i think
f1 and soccer you could do depends on who you ask but they're both up there anyways one of the most popular sports in the world and here is uh... i think arguably the best current active player of the most popular sport in the world and nobody's paying attention i only follow certain sports and
i don't follow them super closely but typically i'm aware enough that if something majors going on you know like my friend who had sent the sumi someone will mention it in a group chat that we're in or you will call my attention to it or whatever i don't typically watch sports and or anything
like that but these sorts of things bubble up i haven't heard didley squat about mls nor lino messie outside of apple initially you know mentioning him every four seconds when the deal was still new i don't know if you guys remember that uh... but it is fascinating to me that apple
understandably to my eyes made a gamble that that hey let's bring the world's greatest player let's bring him into american soccer let's put a you know these golden handcuffs on him and let's make a great deal so that he will only be for you know performing for us in so many in so many words
and yet because it's behind apples paywall it seems like nobody at all is paying attention and that just is totally wild to me and it shows that even when you throw a bunch of money to problem that doesn't necessarily fix the problem especially if you don't understand it very well is it because of the paywall though it's just because americans don't like soccer i that's a very fair question like that that's the easier solution the other thing is i don't know much about soccer or this person but
from the article you read uh... incentivized him to finish his career in america i am assuming he was the greatest soccer player but now he's getting kind of old and so i can you know you can know equivalent of other sports of uh... uh... great sports player that may be his past their prime
and they're you know by far they would be the biggest player in the mls but who are they playing with are they playing with all of their rivals from the peak of their career no they're back to playing the real soccer in the rest of the world right so even even to a big soccer fans like uh
well you know they got this great guy at the end of his career it's great he got put out to pasture and he can go beat up on the americans who are in his good at soccer but like that's that's not to support a league the rest of the soccer world has all the stars of soccer playing each other
which is much more exciting and i mean the paywall probably doesn't help here uh... i'm i'm it's one of the most fascinating things about this deal is that they were able to finagle it so that he gets a percentage of subscription revenue that's star power to have a deal with that for you
yeah for you to present your subscription revenue like that just shows that he is the only player that matters league i don't think there are many other players in mls that are getting a percentage of apple subscription revenue well but he probably only gets 70 percent um twenty
uh... i he's probably getting a tiny percent but any percent it's like when movie stars get big enough to start getting like percentage of gross right that's even bigger than that so i think this the answer is is that that americans just aren't into soccer but
yeah and you know apple couldn't get the NFL that's what it comes out if they tried if they couldn't get it well i don't know though is it that they couldn't get it or that they just didn't really try hard i mean i i i think they literally couldn't because i think they for the one of the things i
heard was that they were insisting on certain provisions that the NFL would not agree to as in like you know we need to have these rights are be able to shoot the games in this way or whatever and and i thought wasn't willing to give that up and apple isn't willing to do the deal without it
so it's not just a matter of money it was a matter of like conditions maybe but either way they didn't get it and i think a lot of americans i don't know what the percentages are but i bet a lot of americans maybe even more than that you were sent pay to see the NFL even though technically there's
over the air broadcast that they could be getting right and so i don't even think the paywall issue is the big deal like if you put the NFL entirely behind a paywall and took it off over the air people would complain and the viewership numbers would go down but it would still probably be more
popular than baseball yes and no because honestly uh the NFL is easier than ever to get mountain there's asterisks and daggers and double daggers there but for broadly speaking the NFL is easier than ever to get access to because it used to be the only way to have access to what's
called sunday ticket which is basically you get to see all of the football games again asterisk dagger double dagger um you can see all the football games really easily and it used to be had to have a direct tv subscription which is a satellite cable for not a cable provider but a satellite provider
here in the states um it was easier it overseas but here in the states you had to have a direct tv dish you had to have a direct tv subscription etc etc um now you can do it on youtube tv but it's something like five hundred dollars a year it is astronomical the price of an f all sunday ticket
it is hilariously expensive and because of that i think that a lot of people will go to fairly stark lengths in order to avoid paying that money and uh let's just say i've looked into this and there are not a lot of great options that i've found but um it is it is extremely expensive and
i don't i don't know how it would turn out if the NFL came off of terrestrial tv but no i'm just saying i came off of over the air waves like it was still beyond basic cable for your home team or whatever i don't know the terms but anyway i'm not the NFL sunday ticket is for the
people who need to see every game or whatever it's very expensive but i'm saying if the NFL was not available for free then otherwise you had to pay for cable television for example to see games right we're not in that situation now but i'm basically i'm wondering how many people watch
the NFL on over the air broadcast i don't think it would be that many to be honest with you also before i forget real-time follow up it's not line up to lean ol messy uh my american is showing an ipod as i'm sure we've got a thousand emails and tweets i'm sorry about that uh but no to come
back to the NFL i i don't know it and i think some of what's going on with the mls as you said is just that americans don't care about soccer but i do feel like if this content was easier to consume you would see more of it so as an example i don't pay much attention to the NBA even though i
would actually like to pay more attention to it but i just never think about it i don't pay much attention to the NBA but i'll see interesting plays bubble up through one of several different group chats i'll see it occasionally through you know mastodon or if for some reason i do open
twitter usually to look at a single tweet and then dismiss it then oftentimes i'll see like a a basketball uh you know play or sequence floating by there's so much like NBA twitter from what i gather is phenomenal um there's so much that bubbles up and i think a large part of that and this
is what the this poster this story is trying to say is that so much of that is because it's easy to capture it's easy to share it's easy to get to like a basketball that's why i think it's really popular i think what canadian invented it maybe but it's basically practically an american's for the
love of god john it was invented in springfield mass all right i can't forget i was a canadian oh my god what anyway the point is americans like basketball that's why people that's why you're seeing clips from it oh well i think it's i don't think you're seeing a lot of clips of basketball
games and you know other parts of the world where it's not popular but it's really popular in this country have you heard of michael jordan that was a long time i heard oh my god you're getting older you're getting older i was just saying like it's been popular for a long time you obviously
NFL has come from come from out of nowhere to become the most popular sport but like yeah you're you're of course you're gonna see highlights you're gonna see even see heights from baseball the american pastime even though NFL is more popular right uh i think that's better explanation
and not the the venue for the thing but you know maybe they need like they had drive to survive to try to get americans interested in one they need like uh boot to two or something for uh i'm telling americans to talk about it oh my god good luck with that yeah right uh i'm
pleased that we had an actual conversation about this i feel i feel quite satisfied now thank you for indulging me gentlemen oh my goodness all right let's move back to tech stuff or strictly tech stuff uh apple has said or is being said that apple is no longer in talks to join open a i's
investment round uh we had already heard that they were not going to take a board seat if i'm not mistaken but now it's they're apparently not even investing so reading from the wall street journal apple is no longer in talks to participate in open a i funding round expected to raise as much as
6.5 billion dollars and 11th hour end to what would have been a rare investment by the iphone maker and another major silicon valley company according to a knowledgeable person the two other tech giants microsoft and nvidia have also been in talks to participate in the round microsoft is expected to
invest around one billion adding to the 13 billion it already has put into the company according to people familiar with matter the funding talks aren't completed and it is possible the participants and investment amounts could change open a i is also in the process of overhauling
its corporate structure from a nonprofit into a for-profit company that change which has which was encouraged by many of the investors in the round you don't say will be a complicated process for the startup it does if it doesn't complete the change within two years investors in
the current round will have the right to request their money back apple hasn't even shipped their open a i integration and already they're just like we talked about this before how open a i's the culture and apple's culture are not a good match but that's sometimes just the way it is with
the young company and an older company young upstart right maybe they kick out their CEO and he comes back and kicks out everyone like a lot of drama going on recently their cthl left a bunch of other people like it's open a i a lot of drama and apple doesn't like drama but they did the deal
they did the deal with open a i they talked about them in the keynote when you know your thing on your phone can't figure it out you'll have the option of sending it to open a i and they did this deal which supposedly no money's changing hands alluded on to the details and they were going to
be an investor and they were going to have a board seat oh no board seat and actually you know what where maybe we're going to sit this one out investment wise maybe we just don't think there's a big upside there and I don't and apple was really touting like you know we did the deal with
open a i but we're almost we've almost got to deal with google for gem and i and we haven't heard anything about that since you know we see when they were like yeah total it's not just open a i or other word you know this is open gem and i deals probably can happen real soon now and
that nothing they said that but they were hinting in that direction and so far no gem and ideal open a i is ostensibly going to ship as a feature of our phones at some point in the future and apple is rapidly not distancing itself but getting less cozy than they were before with open a i
maybe they just didn't they just figured you know we could have better use of our money we've got the deal that we want we don't need to invest or maybe they're really just you know hedging their bets and you know i don't think they're going to be investing in google anytime soon but uh
and maybe that's part of it maybe open a eyes getting so big and has so much funding i think they've raised more money than any quote-unquote startup ever if you can call this company a startup at this point um but yeah maybe they're just like they don't need our help and maybe we're
we'll talk about this in overtime but maybe they think maybe we're like accidentally funding our future biggest rival and we don't want to do that or maybe they just uh are rethinking getting even tighter with this company that seems to be in constant turmoil all right let's do some ask
ATP and let's start with james suck cliff asking well john be buying the new seven hundred dollars sony playstation pro uh and can you john give me the two second overview on what makes the playstation pro pro and also seven hundred dollars please yeah this is a thing that sony's been doing
where uh it's not a mid cycle update but like uh at some point in the life of their console generation they will release a better version of the same console that plays all the same games that plays them better in some way uh so the the ps4 and the ps4 pro this is an addition to the slim model
which is just the plain ps4 and it was the ps4 slim anyway there's the ps5 which i have then they made the ps5 slim which is a slimmer version of the ps5 and now they've announced the ps5 pro and what makes it better got a beefier GPU a little bit better CPU sometimes they have more ram uh i
don't know the the technical details uh that much for the playstation 5 pro uh but it is i do know the effect on the games and the effect is uh sometimes they run at higher frame rates sometimes they run at higher resolution or higher apparent resolution with upscaling uh but they run all the
same games just a little bit better i always buy the pros models because i want to run the same games a little bit better uh and very often they will be not remasters but like game existing games that they've already shipped will be updated to look better on the pro version of the console and
that's happening with a bunch of games that i like uh i think they're doing an update to the last of us part two and the last of us part two tv series is coming out soon so i might replay through the last of us part two before the tv series is like i replayed through the original last of us
uh for the third time before the tv series came out and just like i got to replay through the sort of remastered ps5 version of the last of us now i'll get to uh replay through the ps5 pro enhanced version of the last of us part two and so to answer the question yes i already pre-ordered my sony playstation 5 pro and i'm looking forward to it and i'm sorry it's replacing a regular playstation 5 yeah i'm the the what's gonna happen is the playstation 5 will rotate up to my son's room replacing
the ps4 pro which is this is the rotation in the house so we just i'm gonna i get a new console my all the one goes up to him and that'll be good because the ps4 pro even though i have an ssd attached to it it's just so much slower we're playing the same game like we're playing destiny
with each other right but i have to wait for his load times and this will really be a big upgrade to his load times up you but it's it's really for you though you or you said you have to wait for his load times you really you're speeding up your own you know he'll like having a better game
console to even though half the time he's playing games on his ipad anyway but the ps5 will take a way more room on his desk in his room but he'll survive you know with all of the redundant playstations you could have bought at least one xbox that's something you could have done i would
i want that or like a gaming pc and you don't you can stop my mac pros also true i would much rather have the PlayStation than the gaming pc all right uh Justin wearing rights as i was 18's vehicle motion cues mitigated john's motion sickness at all so to recap and then i'd like to throw
my two sensual quick vehicle motion cues is there's so much dots like circles that are on your uh phone screen as your or writing in a car and let's say you're holding your phone and the car starts to accelerate those dots will will move toward the bottom of the phone a little bit and i
think that the way this is supposed to work is for your visual uh is for your for your vision to match what your inner ear is feeling because otherwise if you're staring at your phone and nothing's moving it there's a disconnect between what your inner ear is saying is happening and what your
eyes are seeing and so it's supposed to allegedly help and i don't recall if it's on by default or not an ios 18 but i certainly had it on for a little while um i guess on my iphone 16 i believe and i found it so incredibly distracting and as someone who is not used to motion sickness you know
i i don't typically get motion sickness i found it so distracting that it didn't take me very long to turn it off entirely um air and also suffers from motion sickness when reading in the car and i don't think we've been in the car very long with hers a passenger so i haven't had a chance to ask
her about this but with that preamble aside john have you tried it i get motion sickness when i look at my phone so i would never look at my phone in the car but this is the whole thing what it's doesn't check it out it's like oh but no now you'll be able to because the dots will save you it's
like why would i why would i ever look at my phone in the car it's like it's like asking you to like drink this cup of ipakak it'll be fine thanks wow um so here's the thing though i i was aware of this feature and i made sure when i updated you know a dios 18 even before i got my new phone i
made sure it was on automatic because automatic is supposed to like you can turn it off or on or on automatic automatic is supposed to detect when you're in a car by like your gps location and you're you know it detects when you're driving and it will turn the dots on and this freaking thing never
turned the dots on i'm in a car i'm a passenger in a car we're driving down the highway at 45 miles an hour like it's not turning on i want to know what it's waiting for so what i did do was i added the dots thing to control center the new customizable control center and i had i do
actually want to try it at some point but honestly like i'm never going to look at my phone when i'm in the car like i i get everyone gets motion sickness to varying degrees and i get motion like extremely easily the dots are not going to save me like there's no there's no freaking chance like
i understand the theory you've you stated it well but that's not enough like those little dots are not going to be the thing that makes me not get motion sickness you don't know that you've never tried it you don't know i'm going to try it and i'm going to get uh you know sick to my
stomach and i'm going to be mad at the stupid attitude yeah you will i'll try it for science but i've looked it's like it's like those glasses with the liquid in them you've seen those like it's like a bunch of glasses you ever they have like water in them and so as you as your head tilts
like on both the water will stay level and it's in your field division so it's like i've never heard of this i've heard of all the the motion sickness thing you can possibly imagine like i i'm sure this will help this will help people if you're within the threshold that this can help you that's
great i'm so far past the threshold and stuff's going to help me i'll try it for science if i remember to the next time i pass into it but i have dim hopes because i think nothing can help me but not moving me good to know oh goodness Neil McGregor writes given the timescales that we think
we know about iphone hardware lead times it seems unlikely that just this generation of iphone was really quote built from the ground up for a i when do you think the first true built from the ground up for a i iphone will be launched what specifications will be the telltale signs for
example step change in neural engine performance on characteristics jump in ram bigger battery for demanding workflows custom compute beyond the neural engine etc the difference in this generation appears to be the ram size which i assume it could be added to a chip design relatively late in
the development and i would and it was likely to happen at some point anyway i get what Neil saying here and i don't disagree but i don't know what i would look for other than you know a wildly beefier neural engine i'm not sure what else would be a good sign to me we need surgery what's
this first time johnny surgery yeah we need him every time you get it in view he says this exact same thing and he's like it just can't get it through your thick skull so i'm going to keep saying it and i agree with him what he would say if he was given this question is we've been putting
neural engines in our phone ships for years built from the ground up for a i that's a marketing term but practically speaking apple has been putting machine learning hardware in its ships way before anyone else was they were emphasizing it they were building features around it they were
like making a b i's for it they were making frameworks around it they continue to do so so if you look at the phone and say what did it look like if it was built for a high would it have like a beefy neural engine well they already have that like they didn't it doesn't look like it's any different
because they just make the neural engine better year after year or whatever um increasing the ram size uh Neil's right that's something that's pretty easy to do and it's pretty clear that they did that for apple intelligence but honestly i think a you know even though surely this phone was not
when this hardware was being planned apple intelligence maybe wasn't even a 20 on anyone's i so in that respect the whole built from the ground up for a i as a little bit marketing spend a little bit of truth in that we did make sure they all hide it gigs of ram like so i give it a pass on that
it's not you know it's not a completely bogus marketing thing but it's also not true that when they were planning this phone they were like this needs to run apple intelligence because they didn't even have apple intelligence based on the rumors that we've heard of when this was conceived in the
you know three year lead times or whatever on new phones but honestly a phone built from the ground up for a i wouldn't look that different than like the 16 pro and the 16 pro max like i don't think we should expect any massive change to the s o c for apple intelligence especially since
apple intelligence as we record this is still essentially an unproven feature do people love it and they want a hundred times more of it or does it just like it's all right i hope they make it better like like series a good example a voice system is great and we take it for granted and we think
it's an important feature and it should be there but they didn't remake the entire phone around it because a Siri wasn't good enough for that and b there are so many other things that we do with our phone that are not Siri that there was no reason to bend the entire phone around Siri they did
make the microphones better they did make Siri better they did that the neural engine and make it beefier and beefier but like in the end are we were we previously using phones they were built from the ground up from Siri like i think this is putting cart the cart before the horse as the
entire industry is with the assumption that i will be the most important feature on our phone and we want the entire hardware designed to be focused on that feature let's see how the feature does before we completely change the hardware design of the phone around it and again give it a three year lead time Sharon Gordon writes i'm wondering if any of you have made the switch and really started using past keys what are the pros and cons not just security wise but convenience wise is it difficult
to transfer them to a new device right now in a situation where my two f a codes are an authie which doesn't allow export and i'm considering redoing them all and putting them in apples new password apps passwords app even though i'm a paid one password user it's all getting a little
confusing are there any articles you can recommend that really go over this especially from an apple ecosystem point of view i have largely been ignoring past keys there's a handful of places i use them but generally speaking i don't and that's mostly because of similar ignorance and also
i don't feel like i have a good understanding of how sharing a past key would work if such a thing is even possible but there are some things that Aaron and i like let's take amazon as an example Aaron and i you know both use the same amazon login and i don't know i genuinely don't
know that's not you know a figure of speech i truly don't know how that would work if i were to switch my amazon login for example to a past key so i am here for you to to tutor not only sharing but me as well i mean my answer is pretty boring whenever a website asks me if i'd like
to add a past key i say yes and i add it but most websites don't ask me that so i only have a handful of them so far i'm not taking proactive actions to move myself over to it not out of any kind of fear or political statement about them more just i have more important things to do
most of the time and that's just like that's one of those kind of like technical hygiene tasks that i think most working adults don't have time to actually really ever do so i intend to maybe someday get there but i just haven't yet but whenever websites ask me i say yes
john so to help answer sharns question a little bit we should link to rickie mondellos post about migrating password managers migrating to the apple password system and paskeys and it's got some good advice about not trying to do like a big bang type of like i'm going to go in there and change
everything and transfer all my stuff that you can kind of do it sort of the the demand page version of it's sort of slow gradual and so that's actually a good good some even if you don't follow the advice in the article it's a good mindset to get into that you it's not like you're you're not
missing some boat that's leaving and you need to get on it and it will change your life or whatever right this is paskeys are developing technology i'm kind of in the same boat with marco in that i'm when they offer it i take it but as rickie will tell you lots of websites
uh that implement paskeys choose totally different policies for those paskeys than other websites because you can websites can choose to do whatever they want they can give you a paskey and then remove your password they can let you use a password and a paskey github uses paskeys as a second
factor in a two factor login so you enter your username and your password and then as a second factor one of the things that you can use as your paskey which is totally not the supposed intention of paskeys but technologically there's nothing stopping you from doing it so the bottom line is
that every website that uses paskeys is has some different notion of where they fit in in their website and maybe that will change over time like in the beginning we want to roll out paskeys just to try them out and if lots of people adopt them maybe we'll do this but like you just because
a website supports paskeys or anything supports caskeys doesn't mean my my perspective is i don't know based on that how it's going to work okay so you've got paskeys when someone says like oh we support usernames and passwords i'm more or less know how that's going to work these days although
there was it kind of a uh older people remember the somewhat annoying drawn out transition between sites and other things asking you for a username that was not an email address you both remember those days right those were not good days um some websites still do it but in general
we've sort of settled on if you're going to have a login to a website that's not going to be like a third party login like a login with google login with twitter login with apple whatever thing that it's going to say username uh a password and the username is going to be an email address but
back in the battle days you had to come up with a username and put numbers at the end of and do other awful things right that's where we are i feel like with paskeys it's like oh so you support caskeys i don't know what you're going to want for me if i if i enabled this paskey are you going to
remove my password and my password won't work anymore because sometimes i don't want to do that because not because i don't trust paskeys but because i don't trust the website to implement paskeys well enough and there are some things you know case you mentioned the sharing of paskeys
which i think is trivial with apples passwords it's just like you put it in a shared group or whatever and by the way i'm loving the shared groups i made a bunch from my family and they're really making your life better so thumbs up on that as someone who wasn't a one-password user
which has that feature is headed for ages it's great for me to have it now and the apple keychain thing but paskeys there are still some technical limitations the sort of export import flow for paskeys is supposedly coming soon but it's not available yet they want to do it in a secure way
so on and so forth and that is a limitation versus plain old passwords where it's easy for example not easy but it is very possible for example to migrate from one password to apples password system because one password has an export and apples password have an import obviously making that
export is incredibly insecure right because there's your passwords and plain text and a file that you're going to import or whatever so that's not great and paskeys going to try to do that better but there's no good cross-platform way to do that with paskeys yet and every website that uses
paskeys can pick a different policy and you really never know what it's going to be can you just logging with the pass key by itself can you keep the password in the paskey if so how do you choose to use the paskey are you only prompted to use your paskey when you use browser x and not browser
y does it work on on your phone or your mac my stances anytime there is a paskey i would like to use it instead of a password but i'm not even always given that option so i think we are in a transition period and it's fine for you to dip your toe in find a website that uses paskeys that you think it
will make your login experience better and try it for a while i've been on sites that took away my password and i've disabled the paskey so i get my password back because i didn't trust yet that this website was implementing paskeys well enough that i wasn't going to get locked out of my
account right you have to kind of make those choices on your own so fingers crossed for me on paskeys i'm optimistic about technology but it is still young all right thanks to our sponsors this week tail scale and delete me and thanks to our members of supporters directly you can join us
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thank you so much and we'll talk to you next week m and if you're into master thumb you can follow them at c a s e y l i s s so that's k c list m a r c o a r m anti-marko armament s i r a c u s s i c r q z it's accidental i said that's all he didn't mean to accept that too i said that's all
tech podcast so long so my kids gaming pc it's a laptop it's a razor laptop uh we we all all three of us in our household have razor gaming laptops of varying ages and specs um those those are together or gaming PCs tips is dying and won't even boot anymore uh cool and it's actually her
second one um mine is perfect and works great because i hardly ever use it uh and and my kids has been having some problems a lot of problems it you know it's first of all it's a windows laptop so most of the time when it is closed for some reason it is very hot the fans still run it's like
it's it's like you know standard kind of like you know messed up windows laptop problems like this thing doesn't sleep well um like me with this thing does not sleep well um it it seems to be doing a lot of work for nothing most of the time the thermals are awful so i thought that and he and he
started to complain a lot about really bad performance in in pretty much any action now at first i thought like maybe it's some kind of weird malware that he installed while downloading some random thing off of a discord um but then he actually showed me like there were some common
tasks like it was like opening up the browser and it took so long to open like okay something is more wrong with this than that and like any game would fail miserably something all right maybe it's thermals it's a laptop it's been running its fans on high for like two years
so chances are there's probably a lot of dust and crap in there maybe it's clogged up one of the heat sinks or some of the fans so kind of pause for a second here yes point this out which i but i know i've mentioned this before but just to show that it's not just my family and that it is
the thing uh when when we were all kids uh when there was a problem with the computer we fixed it because our parents were old and didn't understand computers and we were young and we did not every young person understood computers but we did now that we are older i mean my parents said this to me
all the time when i was a child when you get old like me your kids will have to explain technology to you but instead what happens is that our children's computers don't work and they bring them to us to fix because we understand computers now obviously we have a tech podcast for programmers like
we're not the average person but i still feel like we may end up being or at least my generation gen X may have been the only generation that had to fix all the computer problems when we were kids because our parents were told to understand it and still have to fix all the computer problems
when we're older because young kids don't know or care anything about computers because they just take it for granted and PCs are for old people anyway and so here you are Marco debugging and fixing computer problems for your kid where was the future we were promised where we would be old
funny dummies and our kids would have to fix our computers my kids don't fix my computers i mean i think eventually my kid will know enough about computers that he won't need me anymore that that time is not yet come though because i mean he's only 12 like there's my son is a junior
computer science major with excellent grades and i still fix his computer anyway so i decided you know this this laptop is long out of warranty and i and i tried i even looked like i installed some process monitoring tool and i even tried like i used the built-in task monitor or whatever
and like nothing seemed to be using a lot of CPU or GPU power like there was no reason why it had to be running its fans on full blast and i'm like all right well whatever let me open it up and see if i can blow out some dust unfortunately i know where the story is going so i just wanted to
ask you a leading question here before you got to this stage so anything else you noticed about the computer that gave you any pause no okay not at all proceed all right so i you know so i flip it over i get out my trusty i fix it screwdriver kit find the red screwdriver to take the bottom
skir is often and you know so i mean i do like the four corners of the the skir is i think it's like you know three across top three across the bottom side and i take off the and when i when i get to the corner on on one of the one of the two bottom corners when i open it up the whole panel
it kind of pops up not a good sign and i'm like hmm that's unusual why are the contents under pressure like that's did you shake up the laptop before you open it i'm like hmm that's anyway so i i uh continue to open the rest of it pull it off and i noticed the uh the battery has ballooned
somewhat and i'm like alright i another side here by the way you posted this on i was a mass in our thread so you posted this i keep forgetting threads exists all right so there is there is speaking of threads there is a thing that there are people writing stories about this
and it amazing me they're writing stories about this now and not last month or the month before the month before the avis it's always been true about threads uh things on threads uh like having the the algorithm on threads essentially promoting they're calling it like engagement bait but it's
kind of like the version of clickbait it was basically the will summon will post something uh innocently like pretend innocently post something that they know will be incredibly controversial and everyone will reply about and so marco unwittingly did this by not on threads posting a picture
of his battery and saying do you think this looks okay and it was exactly like the engagement bait on threads where it's like nobody would ask that no sane person would would say something like this unless it was totally like was they know a thousand people gonna reply and say hey dummy
don't you know about x-wines i can't think of an example from threads but just if you don't need me to put an example open up threads right now go to the algorithm timeline that it automatically switches to you even if you switch to following because they're evil and just look at what the top
post is and it's gonna be some person innocently saying i always thought that x-wines you but i'm not sure about whatever and then it's gonna be a thousand reply guys replying to this engagement bait and that's what threads has become well marco is is i think it was were you you have to tell me
were you legitimately asking that question or were you doing it just to get uh in and saying reactions i was legitimately because like okay i know that swollen batteries are a bad thing good but i didn't like it was only a little bit puffy so i didn't know like no that is not true
this is the puffy's battery i've ever seen in my entire life look at her ravioli uh it looks like it was about to explode i thought you should have immediately put it on your driveway and called the fire department well when i saw it i'm like okay well it has puffed up
enough to like you know to push the case but i'm like i've never seen a razor battery i don't know what their starting status i think that's having normally they don't look like pillows i don't know it pushes the case open but only like it wasn't like only a little yeah like you know what you
normally see is like laptops were like the keyboard is starting to bend upwards or the trackpad has popped out that's why i was asking like did you notice that like it was the case bulging and the reason i asked that is because i saw the battery right but no the case was fine it was just like a
little bit of pop on the case when i opened it up so like it didn't that's why i was like i know this is not i don't i like i'm pretty sure this isn't normal but like how far gone is this this it was a perfect example of engagement bait unintentional apparently but yeah anyway so
everyone reports back to me oh yeah that's bad apparently they're called spicy pillows like no one taught me the slang so yeah but and of course every single reply is making that joke i'm like wow you guys really really original there um i assume some youtuber popularizes this term it's a
it's a i don't know i say it's a meme it is a term of art let's say in the field and yes there are pouch style batteries but there are no revielly style battery anyway and i heard from a bunch of people who said basically their razor laptop also had this happen including the replacement
battery they got also had the same problem like with the short consistent manufacturing yeah exactly so anyway um so i'm like crap like i don't like he there's a there's a possibility of a gaming PC happening in his Christmas future um so i'm like i just i gotta make this last till Christmas i'm
like how like but now that i've seen this it's like i can't just let this go like i can't just leave it like i have i i i have to take action now that i now that i've uncovered this that's what the world was telling you the world was telling you your house will burn down right so what is wondering
is like can i get this to work you know until Christmas at least and miraculously so first i blew out all the dust out of all the fans and everything um and it seemed to work but then i was like i wonder when you say it seemed to work i was gonna say like you have these gaming laptops but
honestly they're gaming desktops that are just bad desktops because like who's using a gaming laptop not plugged in your performance will tank so were you using this you had removed the battery and dispose of it properly but the thing would still boot if you just plugged into power that's
what i wondered because like i would assume that a modern apple laptop will not boot with the battery unplugged yeah because i would assume it's like buffering the power through that in some way so like i thought like there's no way this is gonna work with that a battery so i'd say you know
let me let me just try it i took out the bet it took a long time to get the battery out because and maybe because of its well but since you're trying not to explode that's you but like i think maybe like i was looking up all these different youtube videos and i had to disassemble these things and
of course like every minor revision of a razor gaming laptop is differently laid out inside enough that no youtube video matches whatever one you happen to be needed to take a part of the game a moment so like it i'd never found one that matched the one i was looking at but it was clear
to me that like okay i've unscrewed like the the five screws that hold this in and it's not coming out i eventually had to like bend the case slightly to like get the battery to pop out so oh that's good i think i think it had just swelled beyond its original size anyway i eventually pop it out
and i'm thinking like all right let me see if i can just turn it on without the battery and sure enough it works totally fine it just boots up like it's like okay fine i don't i guess i don't have a battery anymore i guess i'm a desktop okay like windows is so gloriously dumb it's
just like okay i cool i'm a desktop boots right up like no like it doesn't even give me a message nothing is complaining it just booted and everything works great so now it's just a desktop a crappy desktop as john said but a desktop nonetheless the performance issues are gone it works way better
part of that is also probably the mp malware scan that i did that's removed eight unwanted programs or whatever but it seems to be in a much better state now i think the the christmas gaming pc is probably still gonna have to happen but i think we will get there now more safely did you tape the
power cord in or something or put a little note that says do not unplug i mean i told him hey this is not gonna work on a battery anymore but like he never used a battery anyway because it's sucked on bad i was gonna say who's using a gaming laptop on a battery anyway it really i
mean and first of all like i can't say enough mediocrity about razor as a as a company that makes gaming laptops like it's one of those products that's great as long as you don't use it too much and there's a lot of products out there like that especially in tech so my razor gaming pc is great
because i hardly ever use it i absolutely it's it's now a few years old it's it's worked great for the few times i've actually played games that's who a gaming get gaming laptop is for a gaming laptop is not for gamers it's just not like it is like an actual gamer who's going to use it regularly
should have a desktop because these laptops are just and and it's an impossible problem like the if you're gonna have any kind of remotely gaming possible GPU you're gonna have such power demands and such heat production from that thing it's just not going to have a long life in a
laptop form factor and and it's gonna be a crap laptop like and i and and knowing this i i didn't even get like a really high spec one i got like a mid range GPU in his i figured like i know he's gonna still use it as a laptop like back and forth to the beach so like i didn't want to
you know have to to short of a life so when i when i expected out to buy it i specifically chose like the like the second lowest GPU option and and still even then massive heat massive problems the battery life was never usable like ever so i think the the answer is for pc gaming
desktop's the way to go so boy you're getting a laptop then i'm not i'm saying a gaming desktop is going to probably happen oh i thought you said you were gonna get another gaming laptop from yeah no now if i was getting myself a gaming pc i would most likely get another laptop if i needed to but my current one works great even though it's a years old because i never use it and so yeah gaming laptops great if you never use them