Lindsay Graham of American History Tellers

then check this show out today. During the Second World War, the United States, the UK, and the so Union came together in a grand alliance to defeat Germany and Japan. But within two years of that piece, the West would be locked in a conflict with the Soviet Union that threatened to destroy the entire world. This was the Cold War. Now, Lindsey, can I just say that I take a lot of pride and show prep. I was an executive producer for a lot of talk shows um across the country. It's

something I pride myself in. Do you know how hard it is to prep for a guest whose name is the same as a famous senator and is so like it's not a common name as well? You're you're like impossible to find information on sir. Yes, a Google and I have an arrangement that that secures my privacy. Uh yeah, it's it's it's horrible. Uh the my s c O options are really low. Have you ever thought of just saying I'm going to change my name to Larry. No, because Larry is a horrible name. I agree with you

on that. Sorry, Larry's out there. I love you as listeners, but your name is not you don't hear. It's like one of those names like you just don't hear anymore. Or Barry. Nobody's saying Barry anymore either, or Harold or or Franklin or all these great old timey names names. Yeah, yeah, like Maud. I love Maud anyway, Mr Graham, Uh so I'm interested to learn about you because I mean I literally went LinkedIn. I mean I found Lindsay Graham's, but

I don't think any of them were you. I tried Twitter, Facebook. Uh, my producer. I yelled at her this morning because it was like, you can't find anything. Meanwhile, I didn't find anything either, so I didn't I didn't really yell at her. She's back there, but but tell me about you, because you know this podcast is for me. I'm a history like fanatic. I spend at least an hour a day reading something historical. I watched the History Channel. I studied

it in college. So what is your background and you know that you know to get into this hosting this wonderful historical podcast. Um, well, my background is largely an audio that's you know how I got here. So I've owned a little recording studio. I've produced music and composed music for years and uns years, but then we got into audiobooks and and then podcasts. Uh. And that's how

I met her Non from the Wondering Network. Um. They put out are my first podcast, which is a fictional show called Terms, and Terms kind of gets more to the center of this question because I have always been a historical and political creature. Those are my interests and uh, and so we created a podcast that kind of features that as a central theme. Um. I've also taught history. I was a history major before, as I was a psychology major before I was a business major. Um and um, yeah,

it's just always been a passion. And so to be able to combine my love of being a studio rat and also teaching and learning about history. It's fantastic. This podcast, like most of the podcast that I'd say, all the podcasts that Wandering puts out, it's just it's produced so well, and you know, I feel that it's part of this new wave of podcasting that is, you know, it's where podcasting is going, you know, really well produced and really informative.

And you know, I'm a firm believer that podcasts, you know, when they're done right, they create empathy and then they they take you to a place the same place that you go when you read a book. You know that that little person the spot between you and the in the content. And and I feel like there's might be hope for the new generation because I teach it. I teach at a university, and I feel like their knowledge

of history is really bad. And do you look at it, so do you look at this podcast is as a way of of of making history more accessible to uh

some folks and maybe maybe a book isn't their friend. Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think it's just a fact of the universe that that we have are a screen culture now and um that takes up time and and just also develops a different taste for for media podcasts, I think are are as you indicate a kind of a bridge to a previous more um solitary, but still very connected method of consuming information and um and developing empathy. I think it would be our number one goal you have

if to understand and appreciate history. And it's certainly not dates and facts, it's it's people. You know. The enterprise here is just trying to investigate what it was like to live in this time and what it means for for you to be living in the time we're in. Uh So, if we if we can communicate empathy, I would say that that that we've done our job really well. And I would say this it also your podcast help

me tap into memories. Uh I. Well, while I'm teaching, I will often make references to my college students and realize they don't know what that means. They don't know what it is to call someone and get a busy signal. They don't know what it's like to wait at home for the phone to ring, and they don't know what it was like two be deathly afraid that the Soviet Union was going to nuke our asses, and and as a kid, that was my biggest fear. I mean, it

was a huge fear. And I and and it's just even today, like when we talk about the nuclear threat coming from from North Korea, I kind of forget, and I think a lot of people forget, like that was a real fear that we all had for a long time. Yeah, absolutely real. Um, you know one of the reasons why I wanted to do the Cold War first as our first little series. Um, these are these feelings, these fears,

these aspirations. Uh, they're they're largely forgotten. Um. We lived in a time that was strange and and violent and um, just on the precipice of destruction for decades and UM that's gone away, thankfully. But today's headlines you cannot you can't draw, you know, not draw a parallel between what's going on today and then and um, you know, it's it's almost the worst sort of nostalgia for us forty five year olds who grew up uh in the eighties.

I just wonder, you know, what if what if Kennedy tweeted some of the stuff that our president tweets during the Cuban missile crisis. You know, just there's all these like Wow, I look at history. But and I think, well, nobody in the past would have done these kind of things. But I don't know that. I don't know if they would have if they had access to Twitter. If if they would have, you know, made been more provocative, then then they seemed to me looking at them in history books. No, well, yeah,

I think you're right. I don't know if Kennedy would have uh, you know, tweeted. I mean I think I think he was a statesman and and and um uh and careful and certainly media savvy. So um yeah, No, well I was thinking, you know, even there's certainly some firebrands, uh you know that that probably would have left on the Twitter. I mean, can you imagine the segregation now segregation forever tweet it would have happened, um, you know, and and and periscoping or or or live coverage of

of the Little Rock nine. Um, yeah, it would have been a completely different time. But your question brings up a central issue of the study of history. I think it's that, um, that these are people, and as as thinking, feeling, consuming living things, they haven't really changed much in the fifty years. Certainly the dressing and the circumstances and the filigree about us. But that's just history is just a bunch of people making a bunch of decisions in order.

Do you feel that into in today's climate, there is enough focus on what happened in the past. And I don't like to. I think that this comparison is made

way too much. And I'm not making this this this is a comparison, but when we look at you know, when we look at a president or somebody who was trying to have people dismiss the media, you know, and then you look um, you know, and I and I hate to, I hate the comparison, but I'm a big, big study or of of early you know, German history, early before you know, the thirties, before World War Two, and you do see a lot of these kind the

parallels as far as what a despot does. Yeah, I I would say that one of the most disappointing aspects of our modern age for me is the the way that we have turned people doing jobs into these monolithic ideas of conspiracy and um and opponents. You know, it's no longer that you're a person who voted for Obama. You're a you're a libtard, right, or it's not you didn't vote for for Bush. I mean or or or Trump. You're you're someone here horrible if you voted for Trump. Yeah, yeah,

that polarization. Um. Yes, I think the rise of conspiracy theory. I think the rise of our the rancor in our our discourse. It can can all be boiled down to, well, a lack of empathy for the other person. And his historical study is one way of breaking through that to to realize that, you know, I put on my pants one leg at a time, just if I'm a Republican

or a Democrat, that they might be different colors. Um. But you know, um, I haven't really watched it, but I've seen previews of Sarah Silverman's show, and you know, here's a Hollywood liberal comedian and she's doing a really good job of just showing up in places where she should not be showing up and having conversations. Um. And I think we should all do more of that. Uh. If if there's a if there's a more climate, a portion of our political climate, it's just that that we're

not listening to each other. I grew up in West Virginia and I go back to visit and you know, and and you know, living in California, you know immediately you know, their rancor goes up as far as like, oh you turned into this and this and this and mine best two. When I go home, I think, well, well, what are your people doing here? What are you doing to my country? And that fades away after about ten minutes, you know, because when we start talking and it's like now,

I'm still Maddie from from Romney. I'm just the same kid. Might have different political views than I used to, but you know, things are things are are the same, and I think that that dialogue is super important. There's a show that I really enjoy on on Comedy Central called Drunk History. I don't know if you're familiar with it. I do love this show because I love history and

listening to drunk people tell it is really good. But one of the things that I always take away from it is, you know, here's another way of making this history accessible to folks in a different way. And and it brought up when you were talking about conspiracies. One of the episodes was about Roswell and that if you study history, you know that it was a satellite. You know it was whether you know that was you know the government admitted, Hey, yeah, we didn't want telling anybody,

and we thought it would be easier. Uh. And I'm thinking, gosh, you're not. People who don't realize that, you know, who don't even know that that was you know, they never get past the conspiracy theory. It and it's so much more fun to believe a conspiracy theory than to to actually like do the homework and find out what really happened. Well, it's also psychologically more fulfilling. You know, there's there's all sorts of studies of of hy conspiracy theories and and

this sort of crooked thinking exists. And I think it's just a shame because one, it's misinformation you're living. I mean, people are dedicating their lives to chasing down just an absolute fantasy when there's real, simple explanations that that you can just say, oh, okay and then and then go on with your life. Um. But to it it blocks you from from participating in any sort of further investigation

of the world of facts. You lose the vocabulary of thinking that you know, um, there are basic facts of the universe that you need to discover and accept and their extrapolations. But you're not certain about those and and that's okay. You know, this this idea of of of certainty both in history and politics and and rhetoric, I think it's dangerous and um, anyways, I'm I'm I'm a big fan of stopping and thinking about the basic principles

of things like would this really happen? You know, what, is it possible that forty government employees could be in on a secret? Um? No, it's it's unlikely. I was on vacation recently and I was sitting at a sushi bar. The group of people next to me were talking about how they all agreed that there was a conspiracy theory behind nine eleven. Now I was in New York on

nine eleven. I lived in New York City. So my my back, I mean just I my rankled up, and I so badly wanted to just like just just educate them on how stupid they were and how dumb that was. I didn't. My wife was like, just let it go,

let it go, let it go. But but it is, but it was just but it was the thing that bothered me the most was just the level of like, well, sure, of course, you know, and then they started quoting things they've seen on Twitter, and I'm like, this is real, this is a really you're really sitting here having this conversation. I was, actually I was in Sydney, Australia on that day.

We woke up to a phone call, you know, told us to get up and turn on the TV, and pretty much the entire day had happened while we were asleep. And Um, I was actually flying out from Melbourne to Sydney, so it was very, very strange to be milling about as a as a an American traveling alone in Australia.

The Australians were amazing, but that it happened immediately. Um, of course everyone was talking about that event, but you you could not run into people who had already developed the theory of everything on this that it was, and they were talking out loud and so assuredly about their theories on what happened. Uh me hours after you know, the towers fell. Um, and I felt the same sort of rage. I was, you know, an American abroad and uh and and deeply homesick that day. Um. But yeah,

you just I don't know how to confront that. Yeah, I don't know. You know, one of my favorite things about history is and this is a podcast I've always wanted to do, is the what Ifs of history because as as someone you know who reads, I read a lot of books and and and you know, there are so many things that could have changed based on a couple of things, like you know, and I mean from big things like what if Hitler had not gone into Russian what if Hitler had pressed on Dunkirk? And what

if what if the British had not come up with radar? Uh, you know, all these like little things that especially like technology wise, that that changed like World War Two. I mean, I'm think people realize how many things that technology wise change the course of that war more than anything else. Do you have these what ifs that that you like to think about? And is that something that that you also you know, spend your time with it at all? Well, you know, I don't think about the what ifs, um

mainly because there's just so damn many of them. Uh, you know, like we we can we can butterfly theory ourselves into an fantastic fictional world. Um, but it's it's the case that one single person uttering one sentence differently in one moment, and the entire world as we know it would have changed. Um, I don't. Yeah, I think who it's fun to speculate, but um, but I don't spend a lot of time doing it because, um, I don't know where to start and and there's so much

they're already to to learn from. Um So, but yeah, I think speculative fiction is is just entertain hating to think about the mechanics of of these small changes at snowball into uh, you know, an avalanche of history. What is your favorite genre of history to to study and to read up? I mean, I I kind of change around a lot. I've been I've recently got into the Hundred Years War and I'm like really into that right now.

But what is your I bounced around two? I've you know, I've had a deep fondness for for European history when I was younger, and uh, and then Russian history and in college. Um. I got to tell you though, um, and and this is really because of the recency effect. I've I just finished another podcast project that I hope to release in the spring. But uh, the the reconstruction period in America and the immediate aftermath of Abraham Lincoln's

death is fascinating. It put every American value to the test. You know, this country was just wrung out, and um, I'm I'm astounded that we recovered. I'm saddened that that many things took as long as they did. But wow, what a what a fascinating period of history. UM. I don't really give much care to to study the Civil War itself, you know, this battle and that battle and um, you know, but but the politics and the humanity that happened because of it. Uh, it's just just fascinating me.

You know, as somebody who's forty four, I am just now coming to grips with I was given an education in the Civil War that Uh, that's stuck with me until recently, you know, because I grew up in my hometown switched hands fifty six times during the war, and we had the first Civil War monument was in my hometown, uh,

and it aunted it. It says the War for States Rights, and I remember hearing that, and the War of Northern Aggression and all kinds of things growing up, Like I mean, slavery was never part of the education that I got about the war. It was always about Southern independence. And then the same thing with the Civil War monuments. What made me think of that was a Civil War monument issue because you know, I just grew up, you know, feeling like, of course, we have to idolize these guys,

you know, they were great generals. And then and then when I found out more about like why they were put up and when they were put up these monuments, and then I, you know, I start to question back, like, oh, you know what, I've got things ingrained from in me,

from from childhood. And I think it's probably the same way, you know, to kind of til back towards you know, the topic of of the Cold War that you know, I think as middle aged adults now coping with growing up in that time, you know, we have maybe some ideals and beliefs that were so ingrained in us that that we're just maybe haven't figured out yet. Well. I think that's the case for every generation. I mean, why why does every generation, as as it ages, bemoan the

next one? Oh these youngsters? You know, It's because there's a set of values that you've grown up with and you carry with you and they change. Um, you know. I I think the debate of Civil War monuments, uh is a real interesting one because if you unpacket, there's there's there's questions of free speech, there's questions of history. There's questions of heritage that that I don't think shouldn't

be cast aside, uh lightly. There's also questions of of of what it means to be insulted or or patronized as a as an individual or or even a social group. Um and in in order to come to to a conclusion, I think any any person who who says, you know, I have a feeling about this hasn't done enough thinking, because it's a deep and complicated issue, just like the Civil War itself, uh and it was rooted in times well before us, and we're just you know, swimming downstream

of history. What were three a couple of things that really struck in you that you didn't know before you did this series on the Cold War? Because it's fascinating, and I think the thing I like the most about the podcast is what you kind of said earlier is that you put people into the life of someone you know.

Imagine that you're, uh, you know, a professor, and you know you've signed this one petition and I was listening, I was I was driving into work, I was listening uh to the podcast and and and it is it's just like, oh gosh, I never thought of that. You know, like you sign one petition, you could be you know, you've got you got ostracized. I mean it's very interesting. I mean, what are some typic waits you had in

doing the research for it? Well, you know this the newest episode is is about um literally the fallout of nuclear weapons testing. And it was largely instructive to me. I don't think I knew much about the science and the politics, uh and the messaging behind America's nuclear efforts after you know, during the Cold War, you know, I knew about nuclear weapons and the the arms limitation treaties, etcetera. And you know, certainly all the summits that that our

leaders went to. But UM, I had no idea the the the health and environmental damage we were inflicting on ourselves and others, and how potent these weapons are in

terms of their fallout. You know, I remember being frightened of radiation, but I never knew what it could do, um until until you know that this this series, and and you know, it was so concerning for Americans of of a certain stripe that that housewives and pediatricians got together and started asking for volunteers to donate their children's baby teeth so that those teeth could be ground up

and searched for radioisotopes. And and they found out it's like yep, uh, there's a there's a lot of radiation in America. UM. And you know, of course, the the the government agencies at the time have have their own arching orders to not only compete with the Soviets and in a nasty geopolitical war, but um, but to address this new technology and get a handle on it. And the different factions are very similar to today. Uh. You can have you had big, big atom, and we might

have big oil today. You know, the people have been fighting for for what they feel is right for forever and uh. But I had no idea that that radiation was was such a thing. Um. And I honestly I would have been scared to death if I put my daughter's baby tooth in an envelope to ship off to

to some testing laboratory. Um. It would I'd be very frightened of the world if if I was living in that time, I have a silver cup that my my dad is an air Force was an Air Force pilot and tow in the fifties, and he has a silver cup with a nuclear um you know, mushroom cloud on it, with his name on it and the date in an island because he was working on it, I guess you

know he was. He was, he was helicopter pilot and running support for this and just and just I always looked at that and go look at the pride that they had in this explosion. You know, this is this thing that they put it on a silver cup and

gave it to him as a memento. Yeah. Another thing, another thing I learned was, you know, within just less than six months of of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, you know, in the American marketing uh, non American government but American private marketing firms, just Win Adam mad you could find you know, the symbol of the atom or a mushroom cloud on anything you wanted, you know, get get your wife a nice crystal mushroom cloud brooch. Um. It was.

It was fantastic. Um. You know, the you would think that such horror would uh give us more than a few months pause. This is fast. I think we could do an hour talking about the history with you. For for a long time, but I do want to. You know, we as we wrap up, we do a little segment on the show called three Killer Questions. So I have three questions for you. Lindsey Graham, not that Lindsey Graham. No, Lindsey impossible to find online Graham. We'll talk about it.

Oh so that's the difference. Yeah, that's the only difference between he and and it still wants to auto correct it on Google. Um so here here's the question. So the first the first question I have for you is if you could listen to a podcast featuring anyone from history, whose podcast would you want to listen to? What a good question? Um My, my first immediate thought would be Mark Twain, how entertaining? I mean he he has to have, uh, just a hell of a show and would know how

to use the medium. Yeah that's great. Yeah, that's a good, good answer for that. This question. I'm asking this because I asked this question to my staff one day and the answer that they gave me surprise me. But I'll ask you right now, do you know what Dolly Madison's favorite ice cream was? No? I do not. I would be guessing what is Dolly Madison's favorite ice cream. It's oyster. It was oyster ice cream. That's well, here's the thing.

I found that out. And I came into work one day and I have a staff of twenty year olds and a lot of them were my students, and when they graduated, hire them to come over to iHeart and I'm like, yeah, do you guys know? And here's the answer I got. Who's Dolly Madison or do you mean Dolly Madison the porn star? Not one of them knew Dolly Madison was. And I'm just I'm looking at my producer right now. I'm you did not know whatever my

producers claiming she knew, now you did? None of them knew? Anyway, there you go. Um. And then the last question, real simple, Lindsey, was the last podcast that that you binged? That I binged? Well, you know, I I probably was Steal the Stars. I I an audio drama and uh, really well done by I was about to say a close friend I've Twitter friend of mine, Mac Rogers, he wrote it, Yeah, it

was it was good. I you know, I like seeing where the state of the art is in terms of podcast audio dramas because I think there's a you know, very broad horizon for for that medium. I tell people all the time, we're we we haven't even scratched the surface of the kinds of podcasts that will be coming out in the future. You know that, you know, there are so many different ways we can go with this,

and it's so exciting. Yeah, I I agree. I think we probably have enough two dudes talking podcasts, So I'm glad this one's coming to an end. But uh, but yeah, I'm excited that that that that this this is a such a vibrant medium. Can I tell you the term I use in my class when I when I teach, I tell the days of two guys sitting around telling dick jokes is over, because that was the podcasting for

a long time. It sure was. Well, I'm I'm I'm glad that you came and did this two guys talking podcast, lindsay. It's great and I don't want to overstress this. I feel like these are important podcasts, these podcasts that that teach as well as entertain and and again tap into that that that psyche, that that's you know that reading the book Psyche is super important and you do a wonderful job. I I can't tell you how how great I think the podcast is produced and sounds in the

info is just it's solid, dude. Good job. Well, thank you very much, and big props to my team at Wondering Who who really make this possible. Uh, I'm just tickled to be doing this. Thanks Lindsey, thank you. All Right, see, I think he I think that you will soon hear a podcast featuring Lindsey Graham and myself talking about historical moments that could have an almost happen. I think that's in the works. I think it could happen. I think

it's a great idea. I thought his enthusiasm for it was a little low though, but I think he's on board. I hope so, because I I have tons of time to do like another podcast, because I'm not doing fifty already. But there you go. That was fun and I love history. I love history podcast. There are a lot of great history podcasts out there, and I'm anxious to see which ones you producer Ze have picked out for us to talk about. All right, Well, the first is from a

network we really love. It's from how Stuff Works and their show is stuff you missed in History class. I love this podcast. Um, I have not always loved the hosts. They've switched host a couple of times, and I like the current batch of hosts very much. Um, but this is this is definitely for the folks that like that slice of history that is not common knowledge exactly. It's just a little out of the blue, something you never expected.

It's nice, all right, let's check it out. The reason that I have always wanted to cover the Lumier brothers is that they were really prolific inventors, and we're going to talk about the innovations in developing motion pictures, for which they are most well known. I think if you ask most people, they can tell you that they were involved in early motion pictures. That is definitely in my

queue already. So what's another one we got? This is from the BBC Across and it is called Witness and the description of it is history as told by the people who were there, which I think is super interesting. To find people from the places that they're talking about, so it's like the first iPhone, Eisenhower's Farewell Address, stuff like that. So they find people that were living in those moments and get them on the podcast. I'm anxious

to hear it. Let's check it out. We were taking over men's jobs for them to be released for the army. The women were on everything. The men all went show that around the railways and your nationals and land um and post. So we knew that we had to do those jobs. Once the men went, nobody else to do them. Everything sounds better with a British acts absolutely. By the way, I'm watching Victoria on Public on PBS. Very good. Really,

I like it. Yeah, if you liked Um down Abbey, it's it's kind of it kind of feels that void a bit. Is it fictional, No, it's it's historical, but I mean there's fictional characters added to it. But it's it's pretty interesting. Plus, I just I just love hearing anybody. I don't know if any British person, I don't know. That's my that's that's like my wife's thing. She'll just walk around hour to go like a Mary Poppins thing. I think we got it from the good place. I

think that was a yeah, I think that was an impression. Anyway, too much TV talk, All right, one more? What do you got? So this is the way I heard it with Micro my friend really yeah, Mike and I have known each other for many years. When I moved to San Francisco. This is a funny story. When I moved to San Francisco, I took over a morning show that

needed another co host, and and he's from here. He was here, and they were actually just trying to They were pitching Mike to come on our show just just to plug something. And I was like, I'm only having people on the show right now to try out his co host and if he's not interested in that, then I'm not gonna booking. Well, uh, you know. A few weeks later, Mike, Mike and I I don't know, we meet somewhere. We end up becoming buddies, and we we go out and have beers after work because he worked

at CBS and worked in the same thing. But his producer kept telling the story of how I refused to book Mike Rowe on on the and like like got like like this whole thing about this new guy from New York's a real asshole. I won't book anybody, and he doesn't want to have microw on. And meanwhile I was like Mike and her like, yeah, Mike can come on any time, it's just not not during that time period. But he's he is. Everything you see Mike Row on

TV is Mike Row in person. I feel so attracted to the work that he does because I feel like he's so genuine about everything that he puts out. He is. I cannot stress that enough to anybody, that that Micro is Micro. That's the guy you see all the time. Of course, now that he's all big and famous, I don't seem very often. Uh and I don't. I don't. I don't drink anymore, so I don't go to the same He's still he'll still like pop up at the

pub that we used to go to. But um, but I know, like if I need something, I can hit him up. He's a great guy and he's very smart, and his podcast is really great. It ranges from a lot of things, by history is one of the main things. And he also has a great voice, and he's he's wicked smart with a great voice. God damn it, Micro, I want to be you. Let's check it out. A tradition that began with a missprint in a Sears advertisement

over sixty years ago. An advertisement that invited children to call Santa Claus on a number that rang a red telephone on the desk of a colonel named Harry Shoup, a colonel who back in spent much of his time. I'm at work staring at the map on a large plexiglass panel, specifically at the North Pole, where the nuclear warheads from Russia would first appear on their way towards America. God,

he's good. He's so good. And I remember when I started, when we started Stitcher, I remember trying to talk to Mike about a podcast because I just thought he was perfect for a podcast. And that's right, good, of course, that was right, dude. I'm right about everything podcast related, basically. Folks. If you want to know everything about everything, follow me on LinkedIn and follow me on Facebook and Twitter at Maddie Stout m A T T Y s T A U d T. That's that's how you do it, and

that's how you get smart. Okay, alright, you're lucky to work with me. You you're so lucky. Give me my headphoons. Anyway, Hey, thanks for listening to access podcast. Did I get it right? I did? I think the British accent. I can only do it when I'm doing old timey woman British accent. Engineer David Williams and Horsewong. Art work by Dalton Runberg.

Music composed by Casey Franco. Special thanks to the podcast godfather of I Heart Radio, Chris Peterson, Don Parker my friend and Katie Willcox my friend and bosses at I Heeart Radio. Thank you. Follow us on Facebook access podcast, follow me as a set at Maddie Stout s t a U d as in dog, t as in Tom, and download the I Heart Radio app everybody so you

can check out all of the podcast. Everything we talk about is available on the iHeart Radio Appen and let me just do a little plug for I Heart not that I do don't do them anyway, but if you want to want one app that you can make music playlists, listen to your live radio stations, and your podcasts all in one place so you don't have to flip around from from it's to do you don't have to do that. There's no flippity doo with I Heart. You can just

put it in there. And I got Apple play in my car, so I just like the Apple things really good. There you go, folks, check it out. Ze You're the best. Thank you, Thank you, appreciate it all Right Next week We're gonna have a couple of radio folks on we are. They're exciting, they're fun, Carla, Marie and Anthony. They're young, they're pretty. They're way too pretty for radio. But we'll talk to him next week. See you