John Middlekauff of "3 AND OUT"

Herd network that's calling cowhards new podcast networks. And he's also somebody I used to listen to every day on the radio, so it's very exciting to talk to him. Let's check out a little bit of John Meddlecoff right now. I will say this the most talented player in this draft from the quarterback perspective, and I you could argue just overall player, but let's just just talk quarterbacks. Is Josh Rosen for me? And I don't really think it's

that close. Just pure talent. There's more to the quarterback than just ability though the mental capacity, personality that there's so much more than, but just in a vacuum, Josh Rosen for me is the number one quarterback on my draft board. And I'm John Mettalcoff. We don't know each other, but I know you because I used to listen to your show a lot locally on on on a radio station that you did with Haberman, which I want to

talk about in a second. But I don't know if you know this, but I feel personally responsible for your podcast since I was one of the people who tweeted you after your show went off the air and said start a podcast. UM So, so you're welcome, is what I'm saying. Thank you, thank you. You know, we just tried to expand you know, you go from terrestrial radio, which is uh hanging on by a thread, and you you always want to uh you know, adapt in life

and things change. And you know, I've enjoyed doing the podcast for the last couple of years. Well, I left radio nine years ago. I did mornings in San Francisco to to get into podcasting and Stitcher um and and I've always felt that for talk folks, while why wouldn't you want to be in podcasting because we get to do everything that we did well and talk, but yet we get to say whatever we want. I know, it's

you know, it's weird. Once you get into podcasting and you kind of get the free flow flow of doing whatever you want and in the way, you know, I do two separate podcasts now, this one with Colin Coward, which is just me and I've kind of taken that. I do a periscope show on Twitter and I've kind of just taken that a little more segmented to the

Colin show. But two with Haberman. You know, we have we know what we're doing, so it's we can bang out topics and kind of set it up like a radio show, but it kind of adapted to the podcast medium and it's, uh, it's been great, and you go back and we filled in a little bit. On radio, some of the local stations can be are and it's kind of weird because it's very regimented. You know, you gotta get out at certain times you're you're not used to doing that. Once you get a little spoiled in

the podcast world. As someone has come back to radio and pod and done podcasting in radio, it is tough. It's a it's a tough adjustment once you've had that freedom of podcasting to do terrestrial radio again. Have you always been a radio connoisseur and fan growing up that you have your favorite announcers that that just you know that you were like, goddamn, I want to do that. Yeah,

for sure. I mean I remember being in six and seventh grade and having those Uh kids these days wouldn't even know what they are, but that that yellow radio you know, the Walkman, and you had the yellow one, that was the waterproof one you were fancy. Yeah, I had the yellow one. So that was probably you know, mid nineties and listening to Jim Rome and I used to uh, I used to love Jim Roman in the mid to late nineties and just he was so badass.

He had so many big at the time baseball, you know, it was kind of what the equivalent of kind of what the football is now. It was so big, uh, every player, you know, two or three stars on each

team throughout all of Major League Baseball. And he'd have him on all the time, and he'd go to all Star games and have the sweetest interviews and everyone was so good with him because he was one of the at the time, probably in the late nineties, one of the only big time national radio host you know, especially that we got and he was a West Coast guy. I mean, there were some on the East Coast, but

that we could listen to it. I was I'm from Davis, right up the road here from the Bay Area, so you know, I would just remember thinking, Jim Rome, what was the ship? Yeah, no, I love Jim. I mean I had the same kind of experience growing up in the East Coast with with Stern. But um, I think that once you have, like you get that bug, it's hard to get rid of it. Um when you were when you were going coming up through high school and into college, UM was announcing top of mind or you

know sports. You know, obviously you've always been a sports guy, but you know, when did that become more of something that you thought, this is where I want to go with my career. Yeah, I mean it was always my life. I was playing not not very good, but you know, when you're in high school, you're playing sports. Hayberman was actually we went to high school together. He called our high school football games. So he was basically on a road map to become in the next Bob cost Us.

You know that that's what he was gonna be doing for me. I didn't quite know as maybe as clear clearly at that time that that was what I was gonna be doing. But I definitely knew once I got to college in cal Poly that you know, I kind of missed it. You're kind of screwing around the first couple of years working in business. You get an internship at Morgan Stanley, You're like, you know, I'm gonna make make millions. And then the first day you get there, they had you know, you wear a suit and tie

to work and they have you spackling the walls. You're like, what this sucks? What what am I doing? And uh? And then you kind of get back into it, and one thing led to another. And I've always been really opinionated, you know, I've always been you know, my my dad's first reaction was always to tell me to shut up because I could never stop talking. So it comes pretty naturally to me. I just ended up working kind of on the team side, uh, and got into scouting. It just,

you know a little bit by happenstance. I didn't necessarily know I was going to do that at the time. It just kind of one thing led to another and it just happened. I want to get into that in a second, but I want to touch on something you just said about um being opinion aided, and I hope

you take this as a compliment. I'm from the East Coast, and when I listen to you, I think, I you know, when I listen to go, that sounds like a guy from the East Coast, because I do feel that East Coast sports announcers tend to have that kind of ego opinionated thing and not not not saying that, you know, you're this overblown ego, but you're you have that really strong but you know exactly what I'm saying, right, Yeah,

you know, it just kind of comes naturally. And I think when you listen, like you said, I mean, you grew up on the East Coast and here in Stern. You know, five years ago you just were kind of you could only listen to what you had around you. Now with serious XM, you know, I've ever probably the last ten years, you know, know who Howard Stern is and be able to listen to him on a daily basis, or Chris Russo uh living in Philly here and some

of those type personalities like if you fake it. I think you can fake it for a minute just because you think that's the way to do it, but eventually you get exposed. If that's not truly your personality. Like Stephen A. Smith for exam ample. Yeah, I've met Stephen A. Smith. He acts like he does on television when you meet him in the hallway. Super nice guy. But I mean that's he's not faking it, And I think that's why

it kind of resonates and works. Like me, when you hear me talk, or you meet me at the gym, or you see me at a restaurant, or you watch me, you know, on social media or whatever, like that's I'm who I am. You know, I'm not you just I think I always whenever young people ask me for advice how to get in, I just say, be true to yourself, you know, do what you want to do. Don't try

to act or be like someone else. And it's you could have a mentor or look up to people and aspire to do things, you know, Like I'm working with Colin Coward now, it's pretty cool. I mean I've been listening to his radio show for a long time. He's my favorite radio host by far. Like I grew up on Jim Rome, but now like to me, Jim doesn't do it for me anymore, Like I need a little smarter sports talk. You know, there's other aspects of life that I like, and Colin no one better in the business.

I don't even think it's close. Uh. So you can aspire to be like someone, but you have to put your own twist on it. And ultimately that's kind of what I've tried to do. Well. You know, I teach uh and coach a lot of podcasting, and the first thing I tell people is that this is the most honest medium that there is. You can't lie in audio over time, and any of us who have done talk radio, you know, we go went for four and a half hours.

You can go in and pretend to be in a good mood, but the listeners are gonna know you're in a bad mood within about twenty minutes because you just can't hold that up the whole time. And I think that that's why, um, you know that that that transition from talk to podcasting is so much easier than someone who was coming from a traditional you know, maybe radio background is a disc jockey, because it's a different skill

set than what you have to do for sure. Uh. I also think when you naturally one thing that I've always kind of hung my hat on is when I got out of the NFL, I realized, like, I don't really give a ship what people think of me. I'm not looking to get back in the NFL. So saying things that may be deemed a controversial or god, you're taking a hard stance on a g I don't care. And if anything, like every day that goes by, I

care less. So that that also helps, you know, and because you realize it doesn't really matter, you know, just tell what you believe and don't worry about ruffle and feathers because I'm not, you know, necessarily looking to work with a guy again or trying to get back into the business. And I think that's hard for some people. You kind of sit on the fence if you know, you're afraid to kind of make someone mad or you know you might be doing business with them in the future.

Like I, I just I just let a rip. I think that you just touch on something really important. And I think that happens all the time. And I can hear that when I hear an announcer pull away from a player or a celebrity or or a topic knowing that you know what, they just don't want to ruin that rich and guess. You know, you have to do that from time to time. You know, everybody has to.

You know, we're talking about working in the NFL and working for the Eagles, So I want to I want to get this picture of so go to college business? Now do you go back and you know, I know you have your masters in sports administration? Corrects? Yeah, did you go back and get that before working with the Eagles or was that? How did what was the transition from that? When did you like make that transition from business into sports and being a scout? Yeah? From cal Poly.

Actually went to work at Fresno State, uh, and I worked for the football program and for a lot of coaches. The way that coaches get started in the business, they usually start in college football and it's it's a position called a graduate assistant ship and you have one on

offense and one on defense. And now with the explosion to college football, a lot of a lot of programs now have it in recruiting, and basically what it is is it pays you like a player, They just gives you a full scholarship, So it pays you to go to school. You know, you get a scholarship chip every week to basically pay for your rent and food and you know it's not much money, but and you work on the coaching staff. So I got to do that

for two years. They paid for me to get my masters, uh my Sports Administration Masters at Frisden State was like a new program starting, so it kind of worked perfectly. But I really I didn't go there for school. I mean I went there to get a PhD in football, and that just kind of happened, and then we had a bunch of pro prospects. So over the couple of years, I was there every scout that came through, every general

manager that came through. I and the guy was technically working for the recruiting coordinator were in charge of setting those guys up, giving them information. So it was just it just kind of worked out perfectly. You were just constantly with these individuals getting to know them, establishing relationships, and from their end, they need you because their job as a scout is basically like a detective, just trying

to accumulate information on these players. And you know, I was an open book as most You know, young people are great resources for scouts because they'll tell you anything because they're trying to you know, they'll tell you the truth that they're not they're not covering it up for any agenda. They're just telling you. And they're usually pretty close with the players because you know, I was four years old, a lot of players were a year or

two under me. You're around him a lot. You just you just have a pretty good idea of stuff that they're asking for. So it just kind of worked out perfectly. And then on top of that, you just you go to school a small percentage of the time and you just try to pass your classes and move on. So you get the gig working for the Eagles as a scout. That's gotta be thrilling. Um. But what what what was like the first like the thing that hit you that was like, Wow, this job is is really cool, but

this is really hard too. Yeah, I remember once training camp started, just the pace of everything, and training camp in college football is hard too, but you're not getting rid of players. And when you first get a job in the NFL, usually the position the lowest guy in the total poll has is you're constantly taking people to airports because you're cutting players, players are getting hurt, and you're signing players. And in training camp it is just constant,

the turnover with the roster, the last ten guys. At the time, it was eighty training camp roster was eighty. It's not ninety. So you just every day might be a new player. And the pace and the urgency of everything and the pressure, you know, and what's being asked of you. You know, you're not making you're making grand yet they are depending on you to print out lists for free agents, to have things ready at the general manager and the head coach whenever they may need it.

It was just intense and just basic things like you don't want to screw up, you know, uh, getting a guy, you know, five minutes late from bringing him back to the airport just because he may have a ten minute window of getting a physical and then being a practice. So it was just it just comes at you full speed. You can't really be ready for it. You just you just kind of hit the ground running and you know,

try to do your best. So, uh, what's uh can you even share, like what what was the what's the biggest meltdown that you you witnessed? You know, what to say? The player name? As far as someone getting cut, you know, I think most players I never had any issues and I was a guy being the turk kind of picking up their playbook. Most guys, you know, the guys if you're a veteran player, you go see the head coach.

Like if you're a guy that's been there a certain amount of years and you've earned the respect, you you deal directly with the head coach. But the majority of guys that are getting cut are like undrafted free agents and second year practice squad guys that they know going in. It's not it's not your typical job environment where you sign a contract or you get hired. You know, for the most part, you have a certain amount of time to prove your words. You're gonna be there for a while.

In football, like the urgency level of making the team for a large percentage of the players is high, so they know that that given day, a lot of it it may be disappointment, but it's not that they're not freaking out thinking they got screwed, because they kind of know the deal when they get into it. Now you see tears and you kind of see maybe just the shock of getting uh, you know, cut, but usually it's just pretty quiet. You know. I've driven a lot of

guys who have been cut to the airport. But I never in my experience ever had like anger or anything like that. It's more just the first couple of dimes you do it, it's pretty surreal. And then, like anything in life, as by my second year doing stuff like that, you just I don't want to say cold blooded, but you just don't give a ship. You're like, let's get in the Carlo's go. Come on, man, Hey I got other stuff to do. Just it's it's a business, you know.

It's just it's the way you look at it. I know. When um, you know, people find out what I do, they immediately want me to listen to their podcasts. They want me to give them advice, they want me this this, and this and and you know, and at a certain point, when you do something for a living, you have to go, I can't do that. Um, how about when people find out you're an NFL scout. How many people come out of the woodwork who want you to check out a player or hey I got this cousin things like that.

It used to happen a lot, you know. And and at first, you, like you said, whenever you first start doing something, you're like, oh, yeah, I'll check it out. Then by you know, six months in, you just stop even returning emails, let alone looking into it because you realize the margin for guys making it at this level is just slim. The nun and the most of these

guys giving you flyers. I always personally hated even wasting too much time on like seventh and undrafted free agents, like you should focus on the top end guys, because that's ultimately how you win. And you know, in in in fairness, every every dad that has a son playing college football thinks this kid has a chance, and you know, sometimes you gotta tell him, no, man, you don't. You

ain't playing in the NFL. Start start your start your career, you know, start do whatever you're doing, get your internship, get get it rolling, because that this, you know, I think the stat is like one point five percent of college football players making the NFL. And you have to be so damn good to play Division one college football.

And obviously some Division two guys make it, but the majority of guys in the NFL are Division one college football players, and the percentage of them that make it from their sport, you know, from college football, is just so slim. It's just it's the highest level you know, of the profession, and really of basically any profession, because it's not many you know, sales jobs or even what we're doing, what most people do. A guy can get an entry level job and break in in football as

a player. It's basically impossible. Yeah, I think that, you know, I go through this a lot. I teach at at university and uh it's here in the San Francisco and you know, it's a you know, Division two school and

nobody's going pro. But you know, try telling that to the athletes who are screwing off in class, you know, because they all think they're gonna especially baseball, because they they've heard they've had two friends who maybe got a triple I mean a single, a contract for a year, and then you know, now they're out of work, but still don't get it like that. You then have to get a real job after that, Yeah, I mean, real

life comes at your fast. And I think a lot of guys you're just naturally kind of immature, you know, in your early twenties. But it's gonna hit you. It's gonna hit you hard, and then you just you have to adapt. And that's you know what I love about football is a lot of guys are just because of the nature of the sport. How hard your coach still even if you do, quote unquote not make it to the pros. I don't. I wouldn't even consider that just because some guys make it. Most guys never even had

the opportunity to make it. They are kind of equipped just with the nature of the sport. How demanding it is. How you know, it's it's the of the three major sports. It makes you use your brain the most because you're learning plays a lot of It isn't meeting rooms in the classroom. It's it is a very cerebral sport, like in baseball. It's just kind of ceball hit ball, you know. I mean, it's not it doesn't take a genius to do it. But to play, you know, to play like

in the New England Patriot offense. Not just the quarterback, but if you want to play receiver for Tom Brady, you have to be really smart. If you're not, you will not get on the field. You know, I do. I went to West Virginia University and I do a podcast with Pat White and Steve Slayton every week. Oh that's a pretty good one. Yeah, you should say it's fine.

I'm they're really two really good friends of mine now and um and and and I always you know, and I talked to a lot of especially former w athletes about getting into podcasting and that, and and I'm just always kind of wonder why, you know, I feel like this is, you know, so many, so many students and athletes tell me they want to be broadcasters, but they don't do shit about it. They don't do anything about it, and that, you know, and you ask them who their

favorite announcer is, and they don't have an answer. It's just they just want to go do it, but they don't want to put the work into it. And and the thing with Stevens and Pat was, you know, you know, I was like, well, let's start a podcast and that way you can work out some stuff. Uh. Do you see a place where maybe we might hear more ex athletes getting into the podcasting world instead of radio. I could see it the one thing the radio medium for

a lot of these guys and their local markets. Like let's say use Pat Wise as example, if you had the opportunity to a radio gig in Morganstown, you know, probably it's consistent money. Uh, and the money is just kind of set, where in podcasts usually have to hustle a little more than go get your advertising. It is a little easier if you can get it now. I also think just because you are a former athlete doesn't mean necessarily going to be any good. Yeah, you know,

I mean, how many podcasts are terrible? Most of them? Yeah, that's why everyone's starting a podcast. Well does that even mean? You know, most of them are terrible. But to me, I'm a big believer as the cream always rises. So there are certain athletes that are really good broadcasts for a reason. They probably work hard at it. They have a natural personality there, you know, well spoken, they are outspoken. Uh, they're not afraid to kind of ruffle some feathers. And

those guys will always be good. Just like in podcasts, you see the cream kind of rise, the other ones don't really get noticed now. Also, I'm sure there are also a lot of good podcasts that haven't been noticed yet. You know, it's just but ultimately they will be Uh. It's just it's the nature of how things work in this country. By the way, speaking of cream rising to the top, your thoughts on West Virginia went into Big twelve this year. Uh in football this upcoming year. I mean,

is your coach gonna last through the season? Come on, well we're back, Come on, it's gonna be great that Oklahoma. You know, they're losing one of the best players they've ever had in bigger field. Now they are clearly are stacked every year, but that's a pretty big transition for them, So you'd have to think it's it's somewhat open. Uh. Texas Tech has been kind of average. Texas feels still like two years away from being a year away, even

though they're on their third coach since Mack Brown. Uh, there is a lot of pressure on West Virginia, right, I mean, you know better than me. It feels like Dana kind of held on a little bit this year. Uh, you know, have they has he left a little to be desired? You know, it's it is kind of a tough place to win, just relative to their conference now. But I think, yeah, they could win nine ten games,

thank you. That's all I wanted to hear. The other thing is they would you would you say West Virginia as a football school or basketball school? I mean, we are football school. We've always been a football school, but I mean that's not true anymore. I mean, I mean from the time that be Line was there until now. I mean, we've been a consistent top twenty five basketball program, sweet sixteen three out of the last four years. I mean,

it's it's not uh. I mean, yeah, I think, you know, I think that I think we are probably a bigger basketball school at this point, but we'll always feel like a football school. And I think if I was a West Virginia fan, my issue would be and obviously Huggies big time, but it's like our basketball team. As an outside observer, I watched Huggies team play, It's like these guys are just badass. They throw haymakers, they're tough, and then I watched the football team play. It's like they're

kind of soft. So it's how's that now? Granted, Huggins, if you had to pick all the Division one uh college basketball coaches, who would be your number one choice to just transition to become a football coach, he would easily be the number one guy, because I mean he dresses literally like a football coach, and his teams, you know, full court press. But it's just it's it's hard when you're at a football school and then the basketball coach

now isn't didn't hugging Huggins go to school there? Yeah, yeah, he's uh, he's actually it's a little it's a little unique, but I mean the basketball coach clearly is overshadowing the football coach, and that usually leads to a guy getting fired. Well, he and he's just not been. And I'll tell you know where a lot of this started with Dana Why people don't love him from his how he dresses. He wouldn't wear the blue and gold, he won't always insist

on wearing black. And I know that sounds like a little thing on game day, On game day and when and when that, when that first came, you know that happened, a lot of West Virginia fans had an issue with it and his attitude towards it was too bad instead of maybe okay, things like that. It doesn't matter. It does matter in the in the pros. It doesn't mean

ship as long as you get it done. No one, no one even really thinks like that in college because the alumni has been so closely associated and they go to all these dinners. When you do arrogant stuff like that, and then you don't quite get it done. It flips on you fast. It is it is, and I think that was. I mean, and there's a lot of us that you've got this, like you said, alumni coaching your your basketball team. That feels like God, that's one of ours doing exactly And I mean and Huggins is he

can do no wrong in Morgantown and Hogerson can't. And you know, I mean he did you say he has a lifetime contract, Bob Hoggins, Oh, he absolutely does. But the way he is, I don't see him. I see him having another massive heart attack within the next five years. And it's not a joke. That's at something real concern that. Yeah, I and a lot of other folks that are close to you know, West Virginia sports worry about how do

you think he weighs? Oh, he's got to be over three bills and because he's he's tall, right, he's like six he's tall, and uh yeah, and just has he's had two major heart attacks and has zero concern for what he puts into his body. Zero And clearly he's a grinder, right, I mean, he's in his office breaking down film, eating cheeseburgers and whatever. Doesn't even worry about it. I don't want to get into the weeds on West Virginia Sports, but on our podcast this week we talked

about why hasn't he won a national championship? And my thing is that, Um, you know, I work with a lot of millennials. This is what I do to teach.

You know, all my staff are millennials, and that hard knock approach works to a certain extent, but you still have to have a little bit of give with these kids because that's just unfortunately there they that's their generation, and he doesn't do that, and it's just his his insistence on if somebody does one thing wrong, pulls him off the court and yells at him and you see him break down at the end of the game. I would love you to push back on that, because I'm

a millennial. To now the older I'm thirty three, so I'm right at the beginning of the millennials. You're barely a millennial. I do think at the core, most humans, especially the highest level competitive humans, whether you're working in finance, whether you're playing on a high level basketball team, whether you're trying to have the number one podcast when you work with or technically four Like, if he's your coach or your boss, a high level guy that you really respect,

you can push them to the limits. So to me, Bob Huggins like even though these kids are one and their millennials playing on their phone, deep down to their core, like any competitor worth their salt kind of likes being motherfucked and pushed a little bit. You know. I don't necessarily think, because that gets thrown around a lot with with millennials that they can't handle it. I disagree, and I think just humans, the highest level competitive humans don't

really mind. I know it's and I don't disagree with you, John, I absolutely believe and I think I get the most out of my people because I do push them and I'm the first voice of reason to say, hey, you're not as good as you think you are. But I do think at the end of the day, I need to give them a little pat on the us once in a while and say a good job, you know, I mean, and that's and that's there's nothing wrong with that,

not just going to college basketball tangent here. But I think when you look at like coach Calipari or or coach k Like, those guys are hard asses too, you know, Bill self. I mean those guys are screaming at people, and I think a lot of times athletes. And this is where Twitter always freaks out when a dude gets berated on the side, Like God, they're used to it, you know, They're just it's not it's not a normal

work environment, like you couldn't. You wouldn't bate a student in a class like a coach would braid a guy on a court or on on the field. You've never been in my classes. Well, I gotta come check it out. I gotta get an in fine. What do you mean you didn't finish your podcast on Tuesday, Bush Lee exactly. Um, yeah, but here, but you understand it's my hot take. You know, I gotta have something to end basketball season, to get the get the get the people talking. So that was

my hot take. Another person on the show's hot take is that he drinks too much, and and that's that was another one that we we bannered about. But I haven't gotten the feedback on that yet. I don't think that we're gonna get a lot of happiness from the university with that. Mentioned, but hey, how how do you drinks too much? Yeah? I mean it's sure it doesn't look like he's you know, drinking G two's. Uh yeah,

I'm gonna leave it at that. Hey. One thing I wanted to talk to you about is, you know, you know the NFL. What do people get wrong about the NFL? And do you feel that the NFL is is is going towards the less popular side or is it still as popular as ever. I don't know if it's quote unquote as popular as ever, maybe as it was like two or three years ago, but I think relative to the other sports, uh, it's so much more popular than

the other two sports. I mean, the Lebron game on like Friday will get a little over a million people watching it. Those Thursday night football games that Twitter will tell you are terrible get like thirteen million people watching it. This second biggest sport in America is Tiger woods. It's not basketball or baseball. The NFL, and really college football to football just in general, is on a pedestal by itself.

So even when it has a rough year like it has this last year in ratings wise, and I personally think there's more to it. I mean, people are streaming. The game's changed a little bit, but it's so far ahead just in terms of the viewership and interest when you factor in gambling, when you factor in fantasy football.

There's also an element of urgency with the sport. Like baseball opening days tomorrow, Well, there's a hundred and sixty two games, So I can't even pretend that the game, you know, whatever the date will be, March nine begins to matter that there's six more months of games. We're in football, and you see this in college football. Definitely, every game means so much in a society where you know, urgency is such a big deal, it's always going to have that just the way the sport is set up.

And you see it in basketball, like the regular season means nothing. Definitely in college basketball, right just like get to the tournament and see what happens. That there's an urgency level that fans that the sport brings, the fans that to me will never go away. And now they have to adapt with streaming and engaging all that bs. But to me, the popularity of the sport, even with some of the issues they're dealing with with concussions and the violence, which I also think the little bs. I

think humans yearn for violence. It's why we It's why I didn't even hesitate to spend when Floyd fought you know, Connor, even though that fight was pretty bad. But you know, the big hits. People love it. You know, people love it. They love car crashes, that love fights. I mean, that's why. It's why when you're in high school and someone's getting to fight, every kid runs and circles them. You know, It's just it's a natural human reaction. That's why world

starts are popular. Exactly. Hey, I didn't even get a chance to talk about you and Haybrman because I I love the concept of of two friends doing a radio show and I thought it was very unique. Um. So I'm hoping that maybe you guys can swing by sometime in San Francisco and get in the studio when we can talk about that podcast. But but real quickly, just just kind of touch on that how that happened. Um And for folks that don't know about about the radio

show that you know that you did here in San Francisco. Yeah, I mean guy was an up and coming star, I mean still is doing stuff at packed ALF Network now and uh, he was working in radio. I had just got fired from the NFL, and you know kind of I was looking to kind of get into the media and I came in and just did a couple of hits on his station. Uh. And the program director at the time heard my stuff, liked it, kind of wanted

me to get more involved and do more stuff. And you know, one thing led to another, and then probably six months later, he had the idea, why don't you two guys do a show. Uh, And then we started doing a show and we did that for about three and a half years, and you know, it was it was a blast. It was it was fun. You know, it was fun to listen to as well. I really uh,

I was. I was a listener. Uh, daily listeners. Thank you for Thank you for making my life a little better for those for those you know, and and you know, in the business, one management changes and just you know, you're working for people that you just you're like, what am I doing? It's just I mean, my dog could run this station better. Just no, things aren't gonna work out. And it was sad because we had we had a

good thing going. And luckily, you know, it's two eighteen and not ninete, so we were able to just keep it going and make money in a different in a different form. Listen. I like to finish off with the three killer questions. Three questions for you, John Metelkoff, the first one being if you could listen to any athlete, living or dead, do a podcast, who would you want to listen to? That's a good one. Uh, living or dead, it's a great question, I know, thank you like and

he'd be fully honest. Oh yeah, absolutely, podcast honest. You know Mike's on. It could be. It could even be a couple. I mean, Mickey mant would have to be. I mean, just give Mickey about a six pack and just say let it rip, Mick. I think Mickey'd be right up there. And you know, if he was gonna truly be honest and tell me all the goods, Pete Rose wouldn't be a bad one either, that'd be good. Uh, you know it just it feels like to get Montana.

I've I've heard some fantastic Montana stories. As Randy Cross I think once famously said you you never went into a bar and didn't look much better standing next to Joe. Uh that I don't just Joe's personality. How open would he be? But I think some of those baseball players and like the fifties and the sixties would be pretty damn good. No. I think Michael Jordan would be fantastic. But like Michael and Joe, they I don't even think they would say anything. There's no amount of money you

could get to get them to be candid. Mickey Man, that's a that's a really good one. What's the dumbest thing you've ever done for sports? Uh? You mean in terms of this dumbest thing in general? Uh, that's a good question. I know, I'm very good, John, I don't know. That's that's that's a good one. You know. I once when I was working in Philly, I once filled up the general manager's car with gas because he needed yet he didn't have time to go to the gas station.

So you just have to do stupid ship like that. But you never had to go get the bat straightener. Uh. Do you ever heard that story about the sending the bat boy around to get the bat straightener? No? I didn't. I'll send it to you. It's a it's on a podcast. Very good story. Anyway. How about the last podcast that you binge? Uh? That's a good one. I was actually this morning before we hopped on listening to uh, Bill

Simmons and Kevin Durant. He just had Kevin Durant on, Yeah, and Durant, So I'll probably hit that back up a little later today. Yeah, I love that. I like Bill Simmons. He usually has a good guests on. Yeah. He I like Bill. He he has that kind of interview style that I like, which is kind of relaxed and conversational and you know, you don't know where it's gonna go. He's I'm a big fan of his, have been first and like I listen to Bill like Bill is not.

I don't look at him like a radio host, like for me, you're listening to me for my opinion, Like you listen to Bill because he's getting guests on, and so I whenever he has a big guest on, I listen to a show. John Mittelcoff, it's been a real pleasure. I enjoy talking to you, and hopefully we'll get you in studio and do this again. Definitely, Thanks man, Thanks John, that was funzy. That was it was a good interview. I always like talking to UH folks that have listened

to on the radio. It's it's, it's it's I'm still like a nerd, right, and I feel like you're also such a big sports fan that it was such an easy conversation for I do need to apologize for all the West Virginia University talk everybody. I should have put that at the top of the show, a disclaimer. Anytime I talk sports is going to turn into a w W conversation. That is just unfortunately, that's what you get when you when you listen to to pot cast of mine.

If you don't like it, that's like half your brain. It is half my brain. Yeah. Now I have to football season because if you want to follow John on Twitter, it's at John Middlecoff. It's m I D D L E K A U f F. He does a twitter uh little periscope thing every day if you want to watch that. And also you can listen to him with his former partner or its current partner, but it's former radio partner, Guy Haberman, which I think is a funny name,

Guy HABERMANN. It's fun to say Guy Haberman and John Middlecoff. They have Haberman and Middlecoff podcast you can check out too. But there are more podcasts out there that we want to talk about. I'm actually to see what you picked out this week Z for us to check out. All right, So my first one is called now What with Arian Foster?

And Arian Foster is a former NFL running back and he is now turn podcaster and it's cool because, um it's not just a podcast about sports, but it's also about things that he's interested in that he brings in experts. So he loves space. So he bought brought in um an astronaut onto his show. He was he bought Snoop Dogg onto a show because Snoop Dogg has that football league. He's a coach now, so it's really interesting. It's cool to see him outside of the football realm. Let's check

it out. You know, Pok was my friend before he got on death Row records. I met him at the Poetic Justice rap party and when I met him, we was like sort of kind of like battle rapping against each other the first time we meet. Man, if you look at all the old clips, they all all the goats went at each other. Man, it was just liked it. I've been a big fan of his because he is so smart and he has he has a lot of

cool things to say. And you know, I was talking to John about more ex athletes doing podcasting, and I think that's an example of somebody who who can do it and do it well, especially because it's not just about sports. Yeah, and I think that when you do a podcast that is um had several different things that you talk about, it's you have to have the right host, and he is the right host for that. So good choice. Thank you, so can one. This is one of my

favorite wrestlers growing up. It's a Steve Boston show. Everybody loves loves Stone Cold Steve Boston. It's I mean, if you when I moved to America from Sri Lanka, this is one of the first things my brother and I were ever introduced to was the w W E on a second, that was your introduction to United States culture, and we loved it so much, the Cane and Undertaker and all of that. I was just like, we were ready. Did you walk around saying they're they're catch phrases? Yeah,

all the time. We would wait for the alive like episodes or whatever. I didn't think. I honestly didn't figure out it was fake until really later on your eyes. Tell me that you still don't think it's fake. I just don't want to believe it. Wow, what's your favorite catchphrase from a wrestler and do it for me for I keep wanting to say it was the Booker t one, but then I can't remember. I always say rocks one, smell what the rock is cooking it? I can't come on,

do it? Can you smell what you guys? Come on? Do it? No? I just like also like Ray Mysterios walk up song and then his move in between the ropes. I can't believe we're talking. Well, I talked about West Virginia University for ten minutes, so let's go. Yeah, and a really cool dude. I got to meet him a number of years back when he his book came out and he actually came to a charity like we had him on the show, and then he came and showed up at a charity event that that next morning. You know,

just asking too when he just showed up. Great guy, cool. Yeah, I would love to meet him, especially like listening to his podcast. What surprised me a lot was so the description is whatever pops into his brain and they really mean it, like it's it's obviously about wrestling, but he's so knowledgeable about a lot of other things that he just talks and it's unfiltered and he's completely the person that you would think he is outside wrestling. Let's check

it out. The legit boss Sasha has a ring to it. How did you come up with that name? Very random? Um? I think I was like my first month in f c W and Rob Nayl at the time, he said we need a list of names, and I gave him a list and Sasha was a different last name and I don't remember, and Banks is a different first name. And then a week lay like your Sasha Banks, And I was like, you like a little caveat to that.

If you're a new podcaster and you don't have a large following of people who were already fans of yours, this is not a good format. This format is great when you're you've already got people stone cold yeah. But if you were you know, Jim Smith, who has two people following you on Twitter, and you want to do a podcast about anything that pops into your head, it's not gonna work. Not the game plan you want to go in, Not the game plan. A little a little

free consulting there from Maddie Media. Boom, alright, what else you got? So the last one is a shout out to Colin Cowherd. So it's his podcast, The Herd, and it's about sports, different sports, not just one sport. And it's a different take. It's not just factual, it's his opinion. He also has like that old sportscaster voice that I really like. You know what I'm talking about? Like, I do know what you're talking about it? Yeah, I like it a lot. Let's check it out. Offensive guys are

about skill and choreography and unity, playing together. They huddle up, they call a play on three, they audible together, choreographed. One guy doesn't get it, penalty blows it up. Defensive guys are about blowing stuff up. They're aggressive, they're intimidating. You know what a safety is, it's a wide receiver that can't catch. You know what a linebacker is a running back with no moves or speed. I want my offensive guys to be choreographed and unified, great listeners, you

know what. I want my defensive guys to be little lack o And I'm totally okay with it. You have voices like that always like scared me because I never had a voice like that, and and and it's it is you don't hear it all the time. Yeah, Collin Collins, Uh, he's he's a legend in the business. So it's cool that he's part of We get to have some of the folks on from his new podcast network, including John Mettalcoff,

who was a great guest today. So I want to thank John Meddalcoff from coming on this show today and again follow him on Twitter at John Middlecoff. You can follow me on Twitter, Instagram, uh, and Facebook and see lots of pictures of me at West Virginia University of Basketball games and actually me with the some of the players from the Sweet Sixteen at Maddie Stout m A T T Y S T A U d T. Other

than that, lots of pictures of my dogs. Um. I also want to do a shout out to the podcast The Cooler on k q e D. It's an MPR podcast. They actually took our show from a few weeks ago that we did with them and put it on their podcast feed, So great little sharing going on there. Uh. Those I love those guys are like my new favorite friends online. I talked to them all the time, so uh go go check them out again if you haven't

done that already. Um and also again if you like John Medalkoff, checkout habramnt and medalcoffe is other podcast Z. You're a fantastic producer. Thank you appreciate it. I want to also announce that we're gonna be changing the format of the show just a bit. We'll be publishing every two weeks now instead of every week. Now. That's not saying we might not stick one in here and there every week, but we want to just try to be

I'll be completely transparent. I'm slammed and it's hard to get one of these done every week because a little more work goes into it than you think. So we're gonna do it every two weeks. So if you're one of our thousands and thousands, of hundreds, maybe tens of fans, I hope you understand. Thanks for tuning in. I want to thank our engineer's Horse and David and of course

Casey who does the music. I want to do a shout out to Ricardo a R who works here at Heart Radio and does lots of all the little promo things you see on social media. He does a goodbye and a fawn farewell to our engineer Anna. She's going back to Drexel University and just revolutionize all the streaming stuff that you see on all the high I Heeart stations here in San Francisco. She built the unit that

did that, so really cool stuff. She's she's on the bigger and better thing, not the better, but she's on the big things. And I want to especially thank Katie Wilcox here at I Heeart Radio in San Francisco, Don Parker, and the pod father Chris Peterson of I Heeart Radio. Thanks everybody for listening.