Criminal

directly to the governor. She wrote, After appealing to the governor in Vain, I found that I could go to no other authority on earth. And so in June, she finished her housework, cooked a meal for her husband, and got on the road to Kyowa with a buggy full of bricks. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal, and yes, I am joined by that voice Phoebe Judge from Criminal the podcast. You are in North Carolina talking to us right now. I'm in Durham, North Carolina. That's becoming like

the a real podcasting hub. You know, you know, you think about New York in l A for podcasting, but the Triangle region a lot of good shows coming out there too, right, Yeah, I mean, it's and we've always thought that it's kind of nice to not be in New York or Los Angeles. Um, it's not. It's not. They're not too many shows coming out of here. So it still means that we can kind of keep our head down and do what we like. Uh. But I think that there aren't enough podcasts really coming out of

the South at all. I would like to see a lot more podcast coming out of the South. I was in a taxi cab in New York City a couple of weeks ago, and I was the video screen that comes up which shows those ads came up and it said New York City the podcast Capital of the World. And I thought that was rather bold of them. Um. But you know, I think that we're we're happy to be in Durham and we're happy to get to travel

all over and get stories and then return home. I'm from West Virginia originally, and I think that in general, folks from the South. You know, well, my wife goes home, she'll talk to my friends and she she looked at me one day and she goes, I understand why you do what you do. You people tell stories about everything, and it takes you know, an hour to tell a story about going to the store. Yeah. Yeah, Um, I

think that's isn't it. It's great fun to be able to make a podcast where you can just do whatever you like, you know, and you they can be any length you like, and we just find topics that interest us. Now, crime is definitely the topic on your podcast. Are you always been into crime or you a kid who was checking out Encyclopedia Brown or any of that stuff when you were younger. I mean, I think that I'm interested in crime honestly, as much as anyone else is interested

in crime. You know, crime stories are just incredibly intriguing. But no, I wasn't more fascinated with crime as a little girl than I was about a lot of things.

But I think what's so interesting about having a show about crime is that we really do believe that we're never going to run out of stories, and we take such a broad approach to that word crime that, you know, the great fun of it is that we can do stories that are of course serious and sad and important, but we also do stories a lot of times that are funny, and I think for us it's kind of surprising the listener. They really don't know what they're going

to get next. I love that about the show because of the of the very topics. There's a lot of things I like about the podcast, including just the way it structured, the pace, the length. I think it's it's it's just one of those podcasts that it's very binge able in a lot of ways. Have you had a favorite criminal that you've talked about yet a favorite criminal? Well, I certainly do have favorite episodes. One of my favorite episodes is not about a criminal, but it's about I

guess a lot of criminals. And that was we did an episode about people who were stealing petrified wood in Arizona, and it was basically they would steal it and then they would leave that they had been cursed, and so they would send it back, you know, maybe many years later.

And so this National Park was just getting these packages full of wood that people had stolen in their pants, and I just thought that was such a wonderful story, was so funny and also so touching to think that these people really did believe that all the things that were going wrong in their life happened because they had stolen a little, you know, palm sized piece of wood and and now that you were trying to get rid of it. One of my favorite episodes is about Carrie

Nation and I don't know why. I'm I don't know why. I've always had some kind of fascination with her. I just and probably the picture of her running around and smashing things. Is that one of one you've enjoyed doing too. Oh? I love that. And you know the great thing about that episode is that I went to the to the Kansas State Historical Society, so I could see I was up close to and looking at and touching all of her things, like the hatchet, like her hatchet pins, like

her fake teeth, and so a lot of times. You know, the great thing about Criminal is that we we I spend a lot of time in studios talking to people that I might not even see, you know, they're on the other side of the country. It sounds like we're together. But any time that I can go and actually be around someone or around someone's things, I think it makes the stories all the richer. Now, you are an award winning reporter, do you think that that's a skill set

that that set kind of sets apart. I think some of the great podcasts right now that they're done by folks who who know how to tell a story and have that journalistic background. Well, that's that's really nice. UM. I am a reporter. It's all I've ever done. And for us, you know, we thought always about Criminal as a journalistic effort. Um. We hold that, you know, we

hold that standard to be true for our podcast. And and you know, there are a lot of stories that we won't do that I really want to do for Criminal, that we just can't do because we can't find someone to back up the facts. And we take that incredibly seriously. Um. We spend a lot of time fact checking, We spent

a lot of time getting the legal documents. I'm in the middle of writing of script right now as we speak, where I'm struggling with that because I'm trying to find the source materials that we can add this really great fact into the episode. UM. And I'll be very sad if I can't find something to back it up, because I would really love to add it. So we we we also have a great reverence and respect for these people's stories that we're telling, and I think for us,

we need to be as truthful and honest as possible. UM, because it. It is uh, it's an honor to be able to tell the stories that these people are allowing us to. I think it's really interesting when a reporter can tell a story that on the outside to a person might not seem interesting. And what I mean, for example, is and corporate crime. So you know, something like the BP oil spill, which you've covered. I think that that's

one thing that I'd like to see more of. I just feel, you know that in general, we we cover kind of these these horrific crimes all the time, you know, in the news and on some podcasts. And I think that's one thing I really love about your podcast is you can you can take some information that on the outside might not be something that I think I was interested in until I hear you talk about it. Then I'm completely interested in it. Well that's that's really nice.

I mean, for my favorite story to tell is the smallest story. I think that you know, a lot of times we glaze over these little stories, but I think it's the little story which sometimes can be the most interesting. And I think it is really hard, you know, I mean, I think corporate crimes are hard to tell and keep people's interests. I also unfortunately think that environmental crimes are

really hard to tell in a compelling way. And I think that's a challenge that I've always felt, and so I think that I've I always try to think about why, why is the story hard to tell or loses an interest? And I think that's because some of these crimes we can't find a central character who has been directly impacted. And how you keep someone's interest is not by blood and guts. I don't believe it is or gore or sadness or violence. You keep someone's interest because you've made

a connection with the character. And so that for us is what We're always trying to find a story where we can find a character who the audience will be able to connect with in some way. They might not agree with them, they might think they're a jerk, but they're able to connect and learn more about them. I think part of the uh, the charm and the reason the podcast is so enjoyable is is you and your voice. I am I am in love with your voice and wish I had it. You you have an article or

I guess it, what is it? Just just a blog page where folks can leave you questions about all kinds of things, right right, It's kind of an advice site and people send questions and an eye for whatever it's worth, give my very blunt, an honest opinion about what I think. I like it a lot, Phoebe judge me. I almost want to commit a crime so that I can hear you do like an intro with my name in it. Well, that's I mean, I I can do that right now. You don't have to commit a crime. I mean, I

that's It's really nice. It's a it's a wonderful honor when people, uh say they like my voice. I don't. It is actually my real voice. I think sometimes people think I'm putting on a stick and uh and then they actually They're going to hear me in real life and I'm going to sound completely different. But it it really is my real voice. That's how I talk, and which might be odd, you know. I think it was probably odd when I was eight years old and talked

like this. But but I I'm I'm lucky that people like it. I will say that there are also people who absolutely hate my voice. We get a lot of a lot of emails with people telling me how much they dislike my voice and they have no problems letting me know about it. Well, you kind of offered it there. If you were going to do an in show for this podcast. So far in this interview, how would it go?

Give me your one line bio of yourself. I'm Maddie Stout, podcasting god and digital program director for I Heart Radio in San Francisco. One day there is a man named Maddie Stout. He spent his days trying to show us the good podcast, all while doing it in the digital realm. Love it. I'm gonna put that like on my answering machine. Hi, you've reached Maddie Stout's house. Leave a message. I'm phoebe judge. This is criminal. Ah, there's another one. Oh, this is great.

I'm gonna feature line all day. Have you always liked your voice? I teach you to university And one of the best excuses I get for why people don't do their homework the first couple of weeks is I just don't like the sound of my voice. Have you always liked the sound of your voice? No, of course, but I don't. I mean I like the sound of my voice as much as anyone else. I I now a day's um when I hear myself on the radio or I hear the podio something, I don't even realize it's

my own voice. And I remember when I first started being on the radio. When I heard myself on the radio the first time, I thought it was the biggest deal in the whole entire world. I couldn't even I was just it was such a gigantic deal. And now now I can be having a conversation about a million other things and it doesn't even phasee me. I think, I'm just I'm used to it, and uh, I'm probably

pretty sick of it by this point. I think it's one of the things I've liked about the progression of broadcasting and also with podcasting when I was I started radio when I was sixteen in West Virginia, and I one of the you know, first guys to ever like try to give me some advice was this big voiced guy. He's like, you have, Maddie, Um, you know, you've you're you're you're quite Uh, you're all right with a programming, but you'll never make it. You'll never make it in

the big market. You just don't have the voice. Man, it's just not big enough. And the big voice is not needed anymore at all. No, I think the quiet voice is what we need. The best thing, the best compliment I ever got for Criminal. Someone once said Criminal is a quiet show, and I thought that was so right, you know. I think that we we used to believe that we had to be big and bold and raise our voice, and now I think that what we're hearing.

And certainly with podcasts, I think this is really happening because of podcasts, which most people listen to alone, um, you know, with earphones, and it's a kind of an intimate experience. I actually think what people are kind of understanding is that you can be calm and quiet and that that can maybe get your message across just as well as um yelling and and and being loud and powerful.

I work with a lot of the DJs who were now trying, you know, getting into podcasting, and the first thing I tell them is that it's a difference between talking at someone and talking with someone as far as the delivery goes right. I mean, no one wants to feel like they're being told and what to do, and so they certainly don't want to be I feel like they're being told, you know, what to think or how to listen, and I think all we want is someone to kind of be a neutral guide leading us through

this all. What do you love about the podcast art and podcasting, Well, I just love how available and open it's made storytelling to so many people. Before podcasting, you were given this finite amount of time on a radio clock and so if you if you didn't make it, then you know, there are only so many spots, then good luck you. No one was going to hear your work. And now with podcasting, it's this ability for anyone to

make a show about anything that interests them. And the great thing about it is that it is very likely that even if your show is about something so obscure, like you know, Mustang's in ninety seven, there is going to be at least a hundred other people in this world who are gonna love to listen to your show. And now we have a platform forgetting all of that information out. It really doesn't take that much to make a podcast. You you could basically do it on an iPhone.

You could record yourself. All you need is a good idea. And I really love that that podcasting has brought this medium to so many other people. I want to give a plug for the home I think I think the best poem page for a podcast ever this Criminal dot Com. The illustrations on it, it's it's not something I can describe as well as words as you just have to go check it out. But what was the thought behind that,

behind you know, making it such an interesting place to go? Yeah? Well, the illustrations are done by a friend of ours and a wonderful artist named Julian Alexander, and we we we started with the illustrations knowing that we would do one for every episode even before the show began. What we really wanted to do is to create uh an aesthetic in some way so that if you look at the the tone of the show matches, the look of the show matches, the music of the show matches, the feeling

of the show. It was all one experience we were trying to create. And so what I hope is that when you hear the show and then look at the website, look at the art, it all works is one. We really wanted to create, this whole experience if we could, and her illustrations just seemed to fit in very perfectly with that. Well, one experience. I want to share with you. Is this great radio segment I like to call three killer questions. I've got three questions for you, phoebe judge,

and let's just jump right into them. Number one, what kind of criminal would you be? If you were going to be a criminal. I think i'd be I know that i'd be a nonviolent criminal. I think I might be a bank robber because you're not hurting that many people. And I just think the whole idea of escape is so interesting and the planning. I once was able to follow around a bank robber for an episode we did, and I was just so fascinated by the whole thing. And so and I think about that all the time.

How would I get away with something? So I think bank robbery. I have planned so many bank robberies in my head. It's it's disgusting, alright. Question number two, if any criminal all I've ord did a podcast, who would you want to listen to? I think John Dillinger? Interesting? Why is that? I don't know. Well, I'm from Chicago, and so I'm pretty intrigued by Chicago crime because I love I Maybe this is the wrong to say I

love the glamor of his of his crimes. And he would escape up to a little you know, retreats in Wisconsin in the woods, and I just think, you know, I just think John Dillinger. I think I would love to just he burned off his fingerprints. I mean, there's wonderful stuff about him. Um, I think him. I would listen to that. And finally, what was the last podcast that you binged? I listened to Stown, which is another podcast kind of about crime. Um. I listened to Stown,

and I thought it was wonderful. You know, growing up in West Virginia. That podcast, I just felt like I knew the characters. It really felt like my hometown in a lot of ways. It was very very emotional for me. Well, Phoebe Judge, I hope you judge me to be a good interviewer because I've had a great time talking to you today. Oh you were great. Thank you very much. Uh, Phoebe Judge. You can follow her on Twitter at Phoebe

v Judge and go check out the podcast. Of course you can hear it on I Heart Radio and anywhere you get podcast. Thanks Phoebe, Thank you. Okay, so it is the time of the show where my producer Z comes in and we talked about three podcasts that maybe I'm not familiar with, but this week, since we just had a guest on that I'm absolutely adore and I adore Criminal, I thought it'd be fun to talk about

three podcasts we just love, both of us love. Um So I'm exurus to see what because I gave you a list of my favorite podcast and I want to see which one you picked out for us to check out this week. Cool. So, the first one I started listening to was Invisible, which is a podcast about architecture and design, about things that we use in our everyday life that we might never think twice about how they're made. And I really like that they're based out of Bay Area,

Roban Mars and the whole there in Oakland. Yes, and and I live in Oakland. Oakland is home on East Bay, So I'm super proud that this podcast comes out of Oakland. And you know what people say, I know they You know, if we hear the word architecture, you might think it sounds born. It really doesn't. I mean, it's start like a mundane like here's how it's built. Like they do it in such a way that you're so interesting. It is amazing and Romans another one of those guys. He's

got one of those voices that just makes your melt. Yeah, definitely, he It's like Phoebe. Let's check it out. For the past thirty years, Lawson has worked as a researcher and consultant to Champion Athletic Wear. She specializes in sports braun design. Sports brawns are a piece of clothing that women might take for granted today, but they were totally revolutionary when they were first invented. They opened up whole new realms

of sports and exercise to women. Not just because I've spent thirty three years studying at DO I say this, I know from conversations with literally thousands of women that this is a game changer for them. That's the Man Roman Mars Oh Town from the Town from the Town, Baby all right. Next one that was also on your list that I love, which I've been listening to for a while, is called Crime Town from Gimblet Media, and it's also the creators of HBOS show The Jinks, which

is a fantastic show. So they investigate corruption and crime in different American cities and this one um focuses on Providence, Rhode Island, where apparently corruption and crime is so integrated into people's daily lives. So if you're really into like heights and stings and corrupt cops and stuff like that,

crime toown is for you. Yeah, and they do a lot of the thing that's great about it are the inner views and hearing, you know, hearing the actual participants speak, And I think that's what really it adds a level to the podcast. Such a such a great show and addicted to I tell you what else I like about the show is the theme music. The music it comes and when it comes on, I just want to like, go, sets you up for the whole show too, gets you excited. Yeah,

artist doesn't do that, not yet. Maybe we'll change it up. I don't know. I hope you guys like it. Yeah, I like it, but you know, it's not like, not as good as this one. Anybody check this out? Question did he kick you? Answer? Yes? Question where did he kick you? Answer on my right chin? Question did he try to burn you with a cigarette? M answer? Yes, Uh that's just a little You gotta go listen the whole thing. It's too good to like encapsulate into a

short piece. So next one, next one, last one is a reply All, which I know you love. It's my favorite podcast. It's the one I listened to the most because I don't get a lot of time to listen to podcasts outside of work, because I have twenty six podcasts here I teach. I have thirty students that I have to listen to stuff. So this is one every week I make time for. In fact, when it comes out that evening, I go home and I listened to it while I throw a ball from my dog. That's

so nice. So it's just like a like a relaxing kind of thing. It is so good. I love, I love, I love those guys, and I just adore this podcast. And if you haven't listened to it yet, you're so lucky. You have a whole catalog to go back and you can bend this one. And if you go on their website, they tell you like you can start from the beginning, or they give you suggested episodes to start from, which

is really nice. And I thought the interesting thing was they describe it as a technology podcast, but it's so

much more than that. It's such a storytelling podcast. I was listening to the one about live journal, which I haven't heard about since I started using it like years and years ago, and they went to this whole story about how live journal even though it stopped in America, it took off in Russia and the corruption and with Putin and everything, and I was just like, things, you would never know about these things that we use all

the time. When it came out, I was a big fan of startup and I think Replay All was the second podcast the Gimlet put out, And yeah, and when he said it's about technology, I'm like, And then I kept hearing about it and hearing about it, and I listened to an episode and I went back and I was driving. I think I was on a road trip to up to Tahoe for something, and I binged and I binged all the way back that, yeah, it's such a good show. Well, let's listen to a little taste.

Here's like a thing that you wrote in two ausand nine that at least shows that your personality is static hilarious name for an actual person. Do do topaz ah? All right? You want to hear September eight, how you're doing it for a two PM. So, hey, dear Diary, I know this place is basically my emotional chamber pot where I dump all my mcguffins and let them coagulate into sadness to good job. Those are great podcast If you are not listening to those podcasts, they're all available

on the I Heart Radio app. You can also get the other places, but listen to it on my heart um and check them out because they are these These are like wins the crop. Yeah, if you don't like these podcasts, I question your taste. I just questioned, just kidding. I you don't like him, You're fine? All right? Hey, everybody that's gonna do it for a big show. Thanks for listening to Access Podcast produced by ze Zanyana h Zion One Week, I'll Get It Right engineer David Williams

and Horse All Our Work by Dalton Runberg. Music composed by Casey Franco and we Love your Music, Casey in special thanks to Chris Peterson, Don Parker and Katie Wilcox at iHeart Radio. You can follow us on Facebook at

Access podcast. You can also follow us on Twitter Access Podcast one, and you can follow me on every platform at Maddie Stound m A T T Y S T A U d T leave us Some convents tell us what you thinks, suggests guests, and we'll try to get them on Plus go, download the I Heart Radio lapp and listen to some podcasts today, sharing with your friends, and we'll see you next week.