(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you wanna fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support.
Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links. All right, onto the show. Some of y'all aren't sending HIPAA-compliant email, and it's a problem. Even if you're paying for a business Google Workspace account and have a signed BAA, your emails still aren't 100% compliant. That's where PowerBox comes in. You can connect PowerBox to your Google Workspace or Microsoft 365 email one time, and you're completely covered. No one has to sign into portals. It sends and it shows up like any other email.
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That's P-A-U-B-O-X. Use code ABUNDANT to get $250 off your first year of PowerBox that makes it less than $100 for your first year. Again, that's P-A-U-B-O-X .com. Use code ABUNDANT. So I've talked about therapy notes on here for years. I could talk about the features and the benefits in my sleep, but there are a couple of things I want you to know about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it into an ad script. First is that they actually care if you like their platform.
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With over 100,000 therapists using their platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful and they don't have to sacrifice your experience to stay there. You can try two months free at therapynotes .com with the coupon code ABUNDANT. Hi Kate. Hey Alison, how are you? I'm doing well, how about you? Doing well, thanks. So yeah, what would be most helpful today? Oh man, so a little background. So I recently got my website up and running.
I was at a group practice for about a year and then I left to have my second daughter in May. And then when I was on leave last summer, I decided to go on my own mainly just because I realized I was going to either have to work way more than I could or just not make enough money. So I went on my own, I took my clients with me. I had about 15 people who decided to go with me for my group practice. Some of those people have since dropped off in part because of finances.
I am still in network with a couple insurance plans. I had a couple people who I was seeing who I was honoring their sliding scale fees from my group practice. And then they just kind of realized that they really couldn't afford to continue doing out of pocket. And in some ways that makes sense because they're not, those are not people who are really within the niche that I have cultivated, which is neurodivergent parents, neurodivergent anxious parents, which is also me.
So yeah, basically I think what I'm struggling with right now is my website's been published since the end of December. I am still feeling like kind of stuck in a lot of ways with SEO stuff and just like, am I actually reaching people in the right way? And on top of that, like, I'm just having a ton of financial anxiety right now because I'm just not making as much money as I need to be to exist.
And I feel like I'm worried that my website is either like not good enough or it's not reaching people in the right way. I'm trying to connect with other people like doulas and people who might be, you know, kind of harnessing access to some of the clients that would work for me.
But yeah, I'm just feeling really stuck and I'm feeling really frustrated and feeling like I'm also just like balancing being a parent and having two very young children and being like, I don't know how to do any of this. And I'm afraid that I'm doing everything badly, basically. That was a lot, but that's sort of where I'm, yeah. Perfect. Yeah, it's great. I mean, it feels like shit, so I'm sorry for that, but it's great information for us to springboard off of.
You'd like, you've got a very solid niche. So then my next question is like, what are your five marketing strategies? Like you've got your website, I hear that you're working to network, how often are you networking? And then what are your other ones? So right now I have recently connected with a bunch of people through the party. So I've had a couple of networking dates. I've joined a few other Facebook groups, like local to where I am in New York.
So I've met a couple of people there who I'm networking with. I've joined some neurodivergent practitioner websites. So I'm like linked there, but also have started connecting with people there to join maybe some practitioner groups. I'm contemplating blogging. I do like to write and I have a writing background.
So I feel like that might be something that could work for me, but I also am just feeling stuck with what I would write and also whether it's going to actually be sustainable for me with just kind of like what's going on. And right now I'm trying to focus on outreaching both pediatricians and birth workers in the area. So I've reached out to my pediatrician who sees my kids and a few others in the area.
I've also re-contacted a couple of doulas, a few of whom were recommended by other party members, but I haven't been getting any response. So I've been feeling kind of stuck because I don't want to just be like calling nonstop. And I feel like sometimes it's easier to send emails and it's something that people might like be able to respond to on their own time, but I don't know if that's necessarily effective. I think it depends on who it is, basically, what kind of job it is, right?
So like calling the office of like a OB-GYN, for instance, would be good to talk to the referral coordinator. Most OB-GYNs are going to take insurance and sometimes, not always, but sometimes they have this mindset of like, well, everyone has to use insurance because that's the world they're in. So that doesn't mean you're not going to get referrals for them, that's not everywhere. Sure. It sounds like your ideal client has little tiny ones.
Yeah, so definitely little tiny ones or also people who are pregnant or contemplating becoming parents. So it's sort of within that framework. I do right now have a couple of clients who are neurodivergent, have older kids, like teenagers, but that's sort of not necessarily who I'm focusing on. That's just people who kind of found me before I niched that group. Got it.
I'm thinking about the night nurses because that's the population that likely has some money and they're willing to put their money where their priorities are. So night nurses might be a good option. Where are you with like perinatal mood disorders? Is that something you're trying to avoid? Is that something that like can be folded in? Definitely can be folded in.
I think a lot of the clients who I'm sort of trying to reach are maybe people who have a history of neurodivergence or maybe are not fully aware that that's where things are headed, but who are struggling, can more name anxiety and maybe specifically postpartum or perinatal anxiety. So I think that there's definitely a big overlap there.
So in that case, when you're talking to OBGYNs, once you get in with their office manager or their referral coordinator, like talking about like you do perinatal mood disorder work with neurodivergent parents specifically, they may ask you about your training in that. Like if you're a PSA trained or certified or whatever, so just be ready with those answers. I think about moms groups.
When I was in Seattle with my first, I was a part of two different moms groups and we had speakers that would come and speak for one of them. And that was really helpful. So if you could do some speaking and I think the fact that you were also a neurodivergent mom of littles really helps people be like, okay, you really get it. And you're not so far removed from the little phase. You're in it and you have tools and know-how and training to be able to support them.
I know it's so hard when you have little kids and you're also neurodivergent. You're in the soup so much that I think networking is gonna be so important for your practice to build. I would recommend doing it as much as possible, multiple times a week, if possible. And I get like, you're reaching out and you're not hearing from them. So I think it's also talking to the aligned therapists. So either people with the same niche, either neurodivergent or perinatal.
And you can talk to them about like, this is who I work with, like the combo. So that if they feel like, oh, I've worked with people who are neurodivergent before, but like hadn't thought about how that's at play with perinatal mood disorders or the neurodivergent therapists who are like, oh shit, like I'm not trained. And those would be great gets marriage counselors, couples counselors to thinking about those therapists that are likely gonna be able to sit down with you.
They're likely to be more responsive than a doctor's office, depending on like the doula set up. If it's like an individual doula, they're usually much more responsive than a collaborative kind of a situation. But if you can get in with a collaborative and you can speak to all of them about what you do, then that would be really helpful. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, okay, we've got potentially blogging.
I think I'm like on the cusp of saying, like, I'm only gonna recommend blogging for people when they're pairing it with SEO at this point, because the hardest thing right now, because it's harder to get clients now than it was a couple of years ago, is getting people to your website. Cause if your website's amazing and it's speaking to your ideal clients, then it's kind of an easy sell for them, right? But we gotta get them there, which is what I'm thinking about.
All the other things you do need to be in service of getting onto your website. So all your marketing strategies. So if you're blogging, I would want you to pair it with SEO. If you're networking to get them to give your website to their potential clients or your potential clients. So we've got blogging, website, networking, SEO potentially, what other strategy are you using? I think at this point, that's where I've maxed out for now.
And I think I'm sort of trying to figure out like what is the next logical step there with the finite amount of time I have every week and like when I can fit it in. So that's where I'm kind of getting stuck is, like you were saying earlier, like what is in service of getting people to the website? Cause I'm pretty happy with my website. I think like I'm happy with the copy. It took a lot out of me and it was like an intense labor. But I feel, yeah, but I feel good about it.
I think one thing that I'm trying to figure out and I've been sort of getting like mixed answers about this. And my husband is sort of like my tech accomplice cause I'm not a very tech savvy person. But we were trying to figure out, cause right now my website is actually just technically one page and there's like tabs at the top and it jumps too. And we're trying to figure out like, does it matter if it's actually not separate pages? Like, does that affect SEO negatively?
And I've sort of gotten like mixed answers when I searched or like talk to people who know more about this than I do, which is basically everyone. And I don't really know the answer to that firmly. Like if we should rework that. I'm curious like what your thoughts are. Yeah. I have had the same experience in asking that question cause there was a time when one pagers were all the rage and I wasn't sure if it was like, oh, cause it's so good for SEO because it is one page.
And so everything you've done goes to that. Or, but I've also heard like the separate pages are really useful because they have the opportunity to be super specific. Yeah. Everywhere you look, you get either of those answers. Yeah. Yeah. And so I am not enough of an expert to recommend. I'm trying to think of who I can ask. I mean, I've asked the people that I know and gotten mixed answers. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of where I'm at.
I'm like, maybe it doesn't necessarily matter as much if the copy is speaking to the client, but yeah, it's hard to say. And I think I'm like reluctant to rework things just because it was already like so complicated getting to that place. But at the same time, I'm like, if it would actually help, maybe I should rework it. But I just don't actually know if that's a waste of energy and time, like if it actually matters.
Because I have Googled like therapy for neurodivergent parents and then like my county in New York, and I'm the first thing that pops up. Did you do that in incognito mode? Yeah. So I'm like, okay, clearly like that. But then I'm worried like, are people searching that? Is that what is actually coming up? Should I be trying to broaden in some way? And that's where your blog posts help.
It could be things that aren't even specific to neurodivergent parenting, but that all parents feel, but that your people feel it in a specific way. So it could be something like a blog post called like, I regret becoming a parent. And it's like, in that moment, we all have a moment where we're like, what did I do with my life? You know, and so few people actually feel like they can say that aloud to someone, but they can Google it.
And if your website pops up and you can speak in your blog post about how like, this is a thing with parenting and here's how it looks for my neurodivergent clients and kind of break down how it's really specific for them or different for them or whatever, especially in those early days with babies. It's just like, you were so close to the life without babies. Yeah, you almost got there. Yeah, no, totally. Yeah, no, that makes sense.
I think that blogging definitely could be something that I would want to do. I think I'm just nervous that it's like, not the right time to do it or if there's like other things that make more sense for me to do. But maybe it's worth just sort of like doing a blog post, like not committing to like, I have to do this all the time, but like seeing how that goes, like making one. Yeah, like see how it feels because one is it is unlikely to bring in clients.
So I wouldn't base it on like, whether or not you get clients from it, but seeing how the process feels, you want it to be at least 800 words if you're going to do SEO for it. So if you're like, oh my God, how is this just 530 words? Then like, maybe it's not the most fun thing for you and that's okay, but you are going to need to replace it with something and replace the SEO with something. Because if you're going to do SEO, you basically have to blog. And things are shifting too.
I was reading this weekend about how, because Google and like all the other search engines are doing their own AI and just like pulling information, doing the super general blog posts that basically give the same information that Google would with their AI is no longer working. And the way it did for a long time.
And so making sure it's a really specific, it's something your ideal clients would Google and you're speaking about it in a way that like AI wouldn't just be like, oh, you regret being a parent, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I mean, that is the bane of my existence now. Anytime I Google something, it's yeah, it's just, it just smacks you in the face. So yeah, and I think that you're right.
I think that that is becoming more and more difficult to sort of wade through if it's like the only thing that you're seeing when you Google. Yeah, I mean, I think like, I think I'm just, I think I'm scared about like, just sort of the immediate future of, am I just going to not make any money? And should I be looking at doing something else short term to bring in money? Like I was like thinking about, is it worth it to work with an EAP for a while? Like, do I actually wanna do that?
I've never actually worked with an EAP, but then I'm afraid like, okay, well, if I do that, and then I do start getting interested people, am I then not going to have enough time to fit those people in? Because now I'm working with an EAP. And I don't know like what your thoughts are about that, but I think I'm just feeling a lot of intense anxiety about, am I just going to keep losing clients and not replacing them with people?
And then am I just sort of shooting myself in the foot by not doing something like more short term? Or is that actually like a potential risk? I mean, I know it's all a risk, but you know. Well, I think it depends on your money situation. And I'm not gonna make you like go through it right here, but getting really clear for yourself about whether your money anxiety is like, shit, I don't know how I'm gonna pay the bills next month.
Or if it's like, I really would like to be making more and I'm frustrated that it's not happening sooner. So deciding where on the spectrum of panic, where's reality? And that's a number based thing. And we have to divorce our emotions because money is such a sense of security for so many of us and a sense of good enoughness and all of that.
So if we can just look at the numbers and know when you're actually in hot water versus when you're not, then that's gonna give you a better answer for that. Doing something like an EAP could be good, could be not great. So I think it depends on who does this EAP cover? You can do some research like, is this an EAP for Google employees? Many of whom make hundreds of thousand dollars a year.
And if so, if they have like three or four paid for sessions, are you gonna be able to continue working with them at your private pay rate, having taken this pay cut to work with them for these first few sessions? Versus is this a factory, but primarily cover a factory near where you live and most of those folks would never be able to afford out of pocket. And then you're like four sessions in and their benefits are cut off and they're nowhere near ready to not be in therapy.
And you've opened up a bunch of stuff and it's messy for both of you. And then you end up doing lighting skill because you like them. So I think it's getting really clear about what the EAP offers, who they cover, what the future of work with those people could look like. I know some people get on things like Alma or Headway. I know they've also reduced rates lately. I am actually still on Headway because I do accept.
I accept right now, Aetna and United, although I am planning to drop United probably in the next couple of months, but I'm planning to stay on Aetna for the foreseeable future because they pay the best reimbursement of really any insurance. And most of the clients I have who have it are like grad students who are on major universities plans. And so that's kind of a way that I know that they can afford.
So for me, it's like if I can stay on Aetna for now and knowing that I'm getting like a decent rate, like they reimburse, I think 130 an hour. As far as insurance goes, it's like very good. But if I can then supplement my other clientele with an out-of-network fee. And I keep getting weird answers about this too, but I'm curious what your thoughts are about like Mentaya and platforms like that.
I'm just like really, every time I ask people who are in this field about it, I get very mixed answers about whether or not it works for people or if they like it. And I'm just like, I'm wondering like what your thoughts are about it, like if it's worth it. So from what I've heard, because I've had lots of conversations with Mentaya, Christine who owns it is fantastic as a human being.
From what I've heard from different students is that it really depends on where you live and what the out-of-network benefits are. I was just talking with somebody who said their client had an out-of-network deductible of $30,000, like it was not an error. So Mentaya is not gonna help in that situation because there's no out-of-network benefit. Whereas there are some places, like I have some students in California where they get like 80% back, no out-of-network deductible, super easy and smooth.
So they have that calculator that you can put on your website or you can do behind the scenes to see what your people's out-of-network looks like. And if that's the case, then you could even just test it. I think it's like 30 bucks. You can, is that right? I think it's 30. You can just test it for a month and see, like, is this beneficial where I live for my people or not?
But Mentaya is not gonna get you clients calling but they will potentially make it easier for people to afford you depending on the out-of-network benefits. But that's, I think that's probably why you hear such mixed things because it's just like, it's a big country. Insurance is so dry. Like you were like, Edna pays best here, but not everywhere. Yeah, of course. I mean, I just dropped Cigna because I find I didn't even have clients on it anymore.
I only historically only had one and they were reimbursing like $95 for a session. You know, it's like, come on. That's just not, that's not livable. That doesn't make any sense. No. So yeah, that's where I say, like, compared to that, like Edna is crazy good, you know, but that's still not enough, right? But yeah, I think I definitely want to eventually either be off of insurance or only be accepting one insurance. And that is my goal.
I think that what I'm just nervous about is that it's not going to happen. And a lot of that I think is, you know, that's existential anxiety that anyone in this field has. And I know that things are realistically harder than they used to be. And at the same time, I think I'm struggling because I feel like everyone is in such a different place. Some people are having no issue getting people really quickly and other people are really, really struggling.
And yeah, I want to make sure that I'm doing everything I can. And also I think I'm, I want to make sure I'm doing things that actually will matter given like how little time I have right now to market myself, how scary that's feeling to take that leap. But yeah, I think mom's groups are definitely a good way to go. I did actually get on a listserv for like a mom resource list of my county. So I have that.
I'm trying to like find a few more that might be able to have me do, not like a training, but like a, you know, like a Zoom meetup, a lot of them do like virtual meetups. But yeah, I think I'm just overall nervous that this is not going to happen. Yeah. Well, I can tell you the people who are doing just fine, the people who are not, the difference is marketing. So like you do have as much control as a person can have. You do have some control over how it goes.
And that comes down to your marketing, which might mean you set aside time on a weekend when you don't want to be working to knock out some marketing things you need to while your partner's at home or something like that. It might just be being really intentional with how you're spending that marketing time so that it's working. People are still getting full. It's just taking a little longer.
So where we used to see our highest support group that we offered, it would take, there was a while when it was taking people three months to get full, which was amazing. And now we're seeing on average more like six months. So people are still getting full. It's just the timeline sucks. Like, cause we all want it. Yeah. Yeah. No. And I mean, I'm really, I feel very fortunate that I didn't go into this with nothing. Like I didn't, I'm not building this from zero.
Like I was really lucky to have a good number of people who followed me from me being on leave and were really supportive of me going into private practice. And so I'm grateful that I'm not starting from like actually nothing. But yeah, I think a lot of this has to do with like, I am, I have a niche that is people who are really in a tough season of life. And I am also in that tough season of life cause you know, I have a nine month old and a four year old.
So it's, it's just a tough season of life. And yeah, I think, I think I'm just sort of like wanting to make sure that I'm focusing my energy where it matters, but it's good to know I'm not like completely off in the wrong direction. No, not at all. And I think so few people have the ability to work with both perinatal and neurodivergence. Like, I really think that that combination is going to be pretty powerful.
And that doesn't mean like you're going to have a case with full of folks with PPD, but you have training that's really going to help you there. And that's already, both are already very in demand niches. So when you combine them, that's great. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think there's a lot of us. I'm hopeful that it is a niche that is going to be in demand. Yeah. I think, yeah. It's, it's just hard to get people there. Yeah. People just need to find you. That's all it is.
Like you just need a handful of referral. If five people who are good referrers know about you, it's going to be a no brainer to your practice. Like it's just going to fill you right up. So you'll get there. You will get there. I promise. I'm sorry, it's slow. And I'm sorry, it's hard because I mean, I remember I had a four year old and one year old, you know, like it was. Yeah. Your brain, your brain feels like it's being fractured into like a million pieces. Yeah, it is.
Yeah. I know, I know it does not last. And, you know, I remember when my first was born, I was like, this is going to be complete chaos forever. And then, you know, they grow up and they change and then you have another one and the same thing. And that will change too. But yeah, no, that, that is really helpful. I really, really appreciate it. Absolutely. And keep us updated on how things are going. Thank you.
Yeah, I will definitely check in and hopefully I can get some more answers about the stuff with the website pages, because that is like, it's nice to know that you don't know either. Cause I'm like, I feel like I'm crazy. I asked a question I get, no one has a clear answer for me. And I'm trying to remember, cause I asked multiple people and the SEO people I trust most, I'm trying to remember which answer they gave me. Cause I asked people in quick succession.
It makes sense to me that the specificity of each page matters, which is not what you want to hear, but the blogging helps, right? Like the blogging is important. No, that that's true. Yeah. I think I definitely will try to make a blog post and just sort of like, like you said, like, see how it feels to do that and get some helpful information for myself about like, whether that's something that I want to sustain.
But I do, I do enjoy writing and I think that there is a world in which that could be really good for me. It's just a matter of like, is it, is this the right time for me to be doing that? Right. I know for me to write a long enough blog post, it takes at least an hour and then there's editing and SEO-ing and all that. So it's, it's a journey. Yeah. It is a journey, but yeah, I think, I think that that could actually be a good way to go. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Absolutely.
Nice to meet you. You too. And yeah, I'll definitely keep you updated on how it goes. Sounds good. Awesome. Take care. All right. Thanks, Allison. You too. Bye. Bye. Make sure your email is actually HIPAA compliant with POWBOX. Use code ABUNDANT to get POWBOX for less than a hundred dollars your first year at p-a-u-b-o-x dot com. If you're ready for a much easier practice, TherapyNotes is the way to go. Go to TherapyNotes.com and use the promo code ABUNDANT for two months free.