(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support.
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Hey, Michelle. Hi, Allison. Good to see you. It's been a long time. It's good to see you too. It has been a very long time. Yeah, what would be helpful today? So I recently decided to make a transition from insurance to just fully private pay. And working for the longest time with one of those like mental health tech companies, taking insurance, getting clients, and trying to build my private practice on the side. And I feel like it was getting too much.
I wasn't really focusing on my private pay practice and the insurances that this company was getting partnered with. I felt like it was making it worse for me with my private pay goal. I decided to just leave it even though I'm not full at all yet. I'm about halfway full, I would say. So I left it. I left it last month. Congrats. Thank you. I know it's like a good move in the right direction, but it's also very scary.
I've got a supportive husband and we've sort of planned it out in terms of the finances. So that's what I'm just needing right now is just maybe some help with a plan for the next few months. I don't want to feel like I haven't given it a fair shot and then quickly jump back to insurance. My mind kind of goes that route. It feels safe, but at the same time, I know that I can't turn back to safe if I want to make this thing happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Remind me of your niche and then what marketing strategies are you aiming for? Yeah, so since I started working with you, my niche has sort of evolved a little bit, but right now I'm working with predominantly clients who are young adults who struggle with overthinking, perfectionism, OCD, and anxiety. I specifically have a specialty page on social anxiety because I really love my socially anxious OCD clients slash perfectionistic clients who are overly critical of themselves.
Those are my people. Those are the clients that I really, really enjoy working with and that I market to. I've got a couple of modalities on my website too that are very specialized that clients are seeking. So in terms of marketing strategies, I'm working this year with Simplified SEO. They've been helping me with my SEO. My website looks completely different than when I first started. There's more content. It looks way more fuller and I am showing up on Google now, which I wasn't before.
So I'm really working on trying to get myself further up in the Google search. So SEO is one thing. I've been doing blogging, which I guess is like part connected to SEO because in order for SEO to continue to work, I need to keep feeding it content, Google content. So I've been doing some blogs. I've networked here and there and I'm starting to kind of get more into that.
So I've reached out to some past contacts and trying to reconnect with them and I'm trying to come up with a listing of some new contacts. I want to reach out to psychiatrists who maybe specialize in these same populations who are also private pay. That's sort of the direction that I'm trying to take right now. I have not yet initiated that. That's like one of the hard parts for me is like sending out those emails, those cold emails and trying to wait for a response. So I'm still not there yet.
I want to, by next week, send out some. I have a listing of a few people that I want to reach out to. So that's on my list. I've got two directories. I've got psychology today and a specialized directory that's through the International OCD Foundation. The specialized directory, honestly, in the two years that I've been on it, I haven't really gotten any client referrals, but I'm still on there. And psychology today, it kind of waxes and wanes in terms of referrals.
So I've gotten a couple of referrals from my website, which is great because I added on my contact form. How did you find me? And I put Google as one of them. And so a few people have found me on Google. So it's nice to know that at least I'm getting a little bit of a flow on that end. So that's kind of where I'm at. And those are the networking methods that I've been focusing. Those are the marketing methods that I'm working on. I'm not doing socials at all. Yeah. Awesome.
Okay. So here's the thing with your niche, because you love the socially anxious OCD, like that combo is so good for referrals because most of us, like I'm going to refer out through OCD, right? I work in eating disorders. I have a lot of people who have some OC features, but I am not capable, honestly, of treating OCD the way you can. So the fact that you have this specialized training, I would reach out to all the people who are seeing clients that are OCD adjacent.
So the eating disorder therapists, and I don't want you to have eating disorders land in your lab also, but if there's somebody who's like solid in recovery from eating disorders, and this happens a lot where like, they're really managing their eating disorder symptoms really well. Their OCD stuff ramps way up. Yeah. Age wise, where are you? What's your favorite age? I love working with twenties and thirties, sort of like that millennial. I've got a couple of clients who are even early forties.
I really love that kind of millennial. I don't market to millennials, but honestly, I love the younger ones, but I also really love the older ones, the older millennials who also have kids and are parents and like moms. And I have a little bit of that. So I do have like a bit of a wider range in terms of age. So I don't know if I need to be a little bit more specific because I also in my copy, my web copy, I don't really speak as much to the social anxiety piece. I speak a lot to the OCD piece.
And I speak a lot to like the overthinking to like the getting caught up in your mind to like the not being present, which could be almost anybody with OCD. So maybe I need to like hone in a little bit on some of those other more unique experiences with the clients who also have social anxiety. Yeah. Sure. How to how to like merge the two, I guess. I think with the millennial population too, have you read The Anxious Generation? No. Oh, it's so good.
And it talks about the impact of social media and smartphones on our collective well-being and individual mental health. And the millennials, you know, they came up with technology in a way that like I'm Gen X, like I didn't. And what they found in all these studies is that the exposure to like a smartphone and social media, particularly for girls and gaming and porn for boys impacts our mental health most intensely when we're looking at it during puberty.
And like that's a lot of millennials, right? Particularly the mid-grade ones and younger. That's content you could talk about in blog posts. I highly recommend the book. It's really compelling. I think it's really good for any parent to read too. That's what I'm thinking too, because it's gotten worse and not better. Yeah, we have a whole media plan at our house of what's allowed and what's not. And I'm far more strict on it having read the book than I would otherwise be.
No, I haven't read the book, but I've definitely heard of just like the research. And I feel like my son who's like 11 now in sixth grade, that age where he's like, I'm the only one that doesn't have a phone. And yeah, my sixth grade, 11 year old daughter, same. I mean, luckily, actually the school that she's in really is intense about, you cannot have a phone at school or they will take it away until the next day at the end of the school day.
So she's not exposed to it as much, but when we had a slumber party, like a bunch of girls came over and every single person bought either an iPad or a phone and they all just like went off into a corner basically. And it was so heartbreaking. So anyway, I digress, but it's an amazing book and very relatable to your clients and also to your clients' kids. It's good to have in your toolbox. Thank you. Yeah. So I would lean heavier on the social, like that combo of the social anxiety and OCD.
I would definitely talk to psychiatrists because we know like meds can be so helpful with OCD. They're definitely like frontline recommendation and they're not going to solve everything. So finding an OCD specialist is not an easy thing. And you were really doing those psychiatrists a favor by letting them know that you are there. So yes, I like the idea of like some more adjacent therapists, like the eating disorders. Yeah, and anxiety. I mean, how many anxiety therapists are there? So many.
And that doesn't mean they're down for all the anxiety disorders. So I think about, I've worked with so many students who really love working with the population of like women who look like they have it all together on the outside, but inside things are not. Working out like they're overwhelmed, self-approach, all the things. And there is a subsection of those folks who have OCD and that's not who these other students want to treat.
Yeah. So those might also be some like trauma specialists too that might be targeting some of these perfectionistic kind of like traits that underneath it all, there's also a lot of other things like overthinking and possibly OCD. Yeah, yeah. So like the beauty of working with a population that most therapists don't feel competent to work with is that like you can very quickly become known amongst your local therapist community as the person to send people to.
All you have to do is get out there and let them know. Yeah, yeah. Form the relationships, nurture the relationships. And then whenever anybody brings up in a local therapist Facebook group, Hey, I need somebody for OCD. Everybody will say your name. That'd be awesome. Yeah. I am on a lot of those Facebook groups.
I feel like I know that what I'm trying to achieve is possible because I, you know, I'm part of like a couple of consultation groups where specifically, you know, the work is specific to OCD and there are therapists there that are also private pay that are full that have waiting lists. And I want to get to that point too. I'd love to be like, okay, I got a waiting list and I just want to get there and feels like I'm getting there, but I guess not quick enough.
And I know I've got to be patient with it. And you got to work on it. You know, like I love what you said about like you stopped working on the private pay side of your practice because the tech company was giving you clients. Yes, I get that because when you're staying full or close to full, like when you've got plenty of clients, it's easy to be like, I mean, it's fine. I don't really want to do X, Y, or Z. Yes. And I think like that for a very long time.
And as you know, it's, it's really hard to try to build something when outside of earning an income for your family, you've got like kids and you're just tired all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I was just writing about this the other day of like, good is the enemy of great. Like you had a good practice, but the tech company feeding you people, you had a good practice. It just wasn't great. And that's what you're waiting for. Yes, definitely.
Do you have, I was curious to know what your experience is on, because I don't want to do this yet, but I think if I get a little bit desperate before some of like my plan B ideas, going back to insurance might be trying Google ads. And I don't know what your take is on that. And I'd love to know what your thoughts are on that.
And again, this is like also like part of plan B that's not ideal because I've worked so hard not to do it, but maybe adding some, either like a couple of evening slots or a couple of like early weekend slots. I would see like the calls coming in. If people are like, oh, I can't do that because I need early evening or I need the weekend. That would be the only thing. But if the problem is people aren't calling, then that's a marketing issue, right?
It's not an hours that you're offering and it's not even a fee that you're asking for. That's just marketing. Yeah. Google ads, I have hired three different companies to do Google ads and not one has ever given me a return on my investment. However, I know a handful of people that have gone that route there that swear by Google ads, at least one of them teaches Google ads.
So I don't know if that counts, but the vast majority of people that I work with who try Google ads with an expert, I would never recommend doing it yourself. But the majority of folks who do Google ads with an expert don't get a return on their investment from my experience. Okay. Like just amongst the students that I've talked to about it. That doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who haven't told me about a really great situation they were in.
But if you decide to go that route, you need to make sure they're giving you weekly or monthly like spreadsheets of how it's going and how it's not going. Yeah. Ask about any sort of, do they have any sort of guarantee? If there's a guarantee, like can't hurt, go for it. But overall, it's not the sure thing. Some people seem to talk about it as, and I know I spent thousands of dollars testing it out, not including paying the people that were running them for me.
How many months did you try it out for? What do you think is a good amount of time to try it out before you're saying, no, this isn't working out? Well, the thing about Google ads is they're supposed to be fast. So you should have a client, at least a client within a month. Yeah. I don't remember how many months I did it. It might've been two or three before I was like, this is ridiculous. Now, I'm also up against the eating disorder treatment centers.
So that's another reason that it was difficult is they're willing to pay $1,000 per click and I'm not. So that's a piece of it. I'm up against, I'm in a similar boat because there's so many big centers in my area. I mean, I'm virtual only, but there are some group practices or even just like larger centers out in nearby cities like LA. And also I'm competing a lot with NoCD, which is the biggest telehealth platform out there is like, oh, we showing up at the top of like a research.
Yeah. Oh, these telehealth platforms are killing me. Yeah. And a lot of people don't want to do telehealth with these big conglomerates. Like I think a lot of clients have their number and they want to see somebody that feels more like running their own shop basically. Yeah. Yes. And those are the clients that I want. Cause I, I do, you know, get some of those clients where, and you can tell, cause I work for NoCD.
So I know like that there are some clients out there who are like, no, I don't want to just go and just get matched up with whoever based on availability and just be hit or miss with my therapist. Right. I want to know that there's a connection, know like my specific therapist's background, expertise, et cetera. Yeah. You just need to be found.
Yes. I think it would be worth a month of Google ads if it's something you're kind of aching to try, but I would make sure like your Google, your business is up and running before you go spend money. Yeah. And I can't do Google my business because I'm virtual only. And so, yeah, I don't have, yeah. So yeah. I think your networking though, if you really like go hard on networking, I think that's going to yield a lot. Yes. I need to do that. That's like one of the hardest ones for me to do.
Why is it hardest? Is it involves other people reaching out to others? Is it your own social anxiety that comes up? Yeah. Okay. But I also know that I've done enough of it again, logically. I know that I've done enough of it that like, once I get going, I'll be fine. It's just getting initial, getting through that initial barrier. And so I feel like I, I know that I sabotage myself. I know that sometimes I'm like, all right, I just got to make this list a little longer.
And then next week I'll send it out to a bunch of people. Whereas I could just be sending out to sending emails out to whoever's on my list right now. Yeah, you could. Okay. So I want to build some accountability around that. Today's Thursday. By next Thursday, will you commit to emailing a certain number of people? Yes. And what number is that? Well, I can email whoever's on my list right now. Hold on. Let me see. I've got more than five to 10.
Simply because if all of them get back to you, which rarely happens, but if all of them like, yeah, I'd love to grab coffee or I'd love to do a zoom. You're going to be like, oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Well, lucky for me, I only got eight on my list right now. Oh, there we go. There we go. Yeah. And so keep adding to your list too. So maybe reach out to five, like, let's take the pressure up. You don't have to hit all of them. Reach out to five and keep adding to your list.
Look for those anxiety therapists, look for those therapists where, you know, everything looks okay on the outside, but it's not inside the eating disorder therapist. Potentially we just need to be really clear with them that like, if their eating disorder hops to OCD, but their eating disorder is well managed, then that would be a good fit. I'm trying to think of the other places that people go. Yeah. Those would be good ideas. Yeah. I'd love to get more.
Cause I feel like those are, those are ideas that I'd had. And if, if, if I could expand from that too, that would be great. I can keep working on that. Yeah. So by next Thursday, I want you to have emailed five people and I want you to tell us about it in the Facebook community. Okay. I hate that too, but. Yeah. You can blame it on me. You can be like, in my one-on -one with Alison, she made me commit to this and I hate her for it, but I did it. All right. I will do that.
Cool. So I had the psychiatrist email me and share a little, like, you know, blurb about him and then send over a Calendly link in his email. And I think he got a ton of responses from different therapists. Cause he's trying to grow his practice. Do you think that doing it like that kind of part of me was like, I love to have control over my schedule.
So Calendly sometimes feels like, oh, I don't know if I want to do that, but it also, I think it could also be an easier way for psychiatrists who maybe might not get back to me, kind of just be able to schedule something. A hundred percent. Yeah. So what I love about Calendly is you can tell it exactly what times. So, and you can also limit, like, I don't want to do more than two of these in a day. Or I'm, you know, only make available one a day.
And I don't know if they have a capability of like, I can only do two of these a week. I'm not sure. I can't remember that. I know they have it in a day. I think you can customize it. I think, I think I was trying to figure it out a little bit because I'm not too familiar with it. I even linked my Google calendar to it because it can, if you've got something already on your schedule and it won't show up on your Calendly availability.
I think what I was nervous about was that maybe some of the times wouldn't work. And that would maybe, I guess I can put that in my email. If a time doesn't work, please, like, reach out to me. Because I am willing to, you know, but I don't want to, like, show so much flexibility on my Calendly. I want to be flexible if the Calendly times don't work. Yeah. I guess I can say that in my email, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. I'll have to revisit that. All right.
So that's something I'm going to have to do as well because it will be mine in a little bit and make it maybe a little easier for people to schedule. Yeah. You got it. Really? Like you just got to get out there. Your niche is so needed and so underserved that I'm not worried about you at all as long as you get yourself out there. Yeah. Yeah. Question about like blog posts. What do you think? Because I know you're in an adjacent niche.
What do you think might be some good ideas that you maybe have like off the top of your head? Yeah. You could do one on like the social anxiety spiral of how like you get anxious so you don't go out and then that increases your anxiety. And so you end up not getting invited to things because you never show up and that kind of thing. So you can talk about that. You could talk about on the OCD side. You could talk about like how reassurance is your kryptonite.
Or maybe if there's a better analogy of like something you really want but always makes things worse. And I would just listen in on your sessions this week. Keep a little pad next to you where you just jot down the things that you keep hearing that are... You're like, yeah, all my clients feel that way or most of my clients feel that way. Thanks. I started this little like blog series.
It's these like fictional characters that have like OCD and I'm trying to kind of target a different subtype of OCD. And it's showing how ERP therapy would look like with a specific subtype. What I'm aiming at in each of these blogs is like showing different kinds of obsessions that show up, different kinds of compulsions that show up within that story. And what the character does, you know, that's in line with ERP therapy that they've learned. That's cool.
So that it's not like one of those, you know, what is ROCD kind of almost because there's so many of those out there, but it's more of like this is what ROCD looks like. You know, or what it could look like in this like story. And it's allowed me to also put in like locations because these characters live somewhere. Locations and like other keywords. So I'm trying to like, and it's also allowed me to be more creative because I like more of like that creative part of writing.
So hopefully that will help. I've only published like three of them so far. And I looked at one client who one of the posts spoke to him. So I'm hoping that that might bring in some more. Yeah, we'll see. And I would consider podcasts too. If there are any podcasts that your ideal clients listen to. Yeah. Reach out, it can't hurt. Even if they're a big one, just reach out, do a pitch. Do you have anything on like doing pitches for podcasts? You know what?
I'll do something on that on social this week. How about that? Or next week, actually, because this week's already done. But next week if on Instagram, I'll do something on that. Okay. That would be great because I thought about podcasting again, like part of me is like, no. But I've also like mentally prepared myself to sit to like, kind of do something like that. So that would be something I would be open to if I knew how to even. Yeah. Where to start with it.
Like what to say if I reach out to someone. Yeah. Awesome. Sounds good. Well, thanks so much, Michelle. It was good to meet you. I really appreciate your help. Thank you so much. It was great seeing you again. You too. Take care. Take care. Bye. If you're ready for a much easier practice, TherapyNotes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code ABUNDANT for two months free.