(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice podcast. I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support.
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The majority of Party Plus members fill their practice in three months. Check out Party Plus in the link in the show notes and join the interest list if you're ready to build what you've been dreaming of. Welcome back to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm your host, Allison Perere, and I'm here today with Emily Powell, and we're going to be talking some about her experience as a pre-licensed therapist, starting out in private practice, not waiting until she was burned out.
I'm really eager for this conversation, Emily. This is something I talk about all the time, as you probably see or know. I'm glad to have somebody in that position to share their experience. Yeah, I'm so excited to be here and to spread the word. I actually just got licensed last week, so I'm an official walking example of the fact that you can do private practice as a pre-licensed clinician, depending on the state that you live in, I suppose. Yes, yes. Awesome.
Can you talk some about the decision-making process? You went against this decision, probably had some naysayers out there. Can you just talk me through how you thought about it, how you gathered your courage, all of it? Yeah. I guess backing up a little bit. I went to grad school during COVID, which was an interesting time to do that endeavor in. Then I did my practicum in an intensive outpatient setting, but all through telehealth. Then I did my internship in community mental health.
In community mental health, I absolutely adored my clients, and I realized how broken the system was. I left after, what, eight or nine months feeling incredibly burnt out and honestly struggling a lot with my own mental health. So when I graduated and left my internship, I had started working for the IOP setting that I had done my practicum in, as well as a group private practice. That was during the summer, and things were really slow, and I was getting nervous financially.
So I just started researching, building a private practice. It was kind of a longer-term goal of mine. Then I read mixed reviews of whether I could start pre-licensed or not. Once I talked to a lawyer and stuff, and once I did that, I hit the ground running with kind of getting it started. I think that research is so important because sometimes people don't realize that different licenses in different states do different things.
Yes. When I was in Washington, I had been in LCSW for years, but an LCSW can't have a private practice there. You have to be an LICSW. It's like another layer. Luckily, I had all the hours I needed to do that, but I couldn't. People coming out of school, like master's in social work school, there was no way they could start a practice right off. But I could supervise licensed mental health counselors the day after they graduated in private practice. So it's just like all over the place.
Yeah. You have to do your own research. You can't assume that your other master's level buddy, who's another license, if they can do it, you can do it. It's not like that. So yeah, it's so important to do that research. Yes, totally. A lot of research, a lot of reading ambiguous code on state records and state laws and all that.
Then honestly, talking to the lawyer for me was like the sign of approval because I was so nervous and I definitely have like rule following parts and didn't want to step too far away from that. So I think talking to the lawyer was like definitely super supportive for me. Yeah, absolutely. And what did the people around you think about this decision?
Yeah. So I remember I actually recall listening to one of your podcasts, which was saying pick two different referral sources that you're really good at. And I chose to do social media and then networking. So I really tried to start expanding my network and I did stumble across people who were really supportive and were like, wow, I wish I started private practice earlier and it's so great.
And then people who had potentially like much longer careers in community mental health and had gone through the burnout of it all. And I did experience judgment around that, which was really hard because I was already facing a lot of imposter syndrome and a lot of self-doubt and just doing this really vulnerable thing. So that was difficult for me.
And I did position it in a way of like understanding that it could have been a projection of their own experiences of being, you know, having to go through that like years and decades worth of burnout. So different responses from different people. I would say folks that have joined the career earlier on were a little bit more supportive. And then folks who had been in the career for a long time were kind of like, what are you doing here? That kind of vibe, which was hard to toggle with.
Yeah. And so I implore those of us who've been in it for 20 years or more, like let's remember that the new people have way more up-to-date information research wise. Like there's a lot that a new therapist can offer that older therapists take for granted. And there's also a lot of data that shows that we don't actually get significantly better at our jobs over time, which is a little demoralizing, but also like a good wake up call. Yeah, totally.
Yeah. And I think on the opposite side of that mentorship and good supervision has been my saving grace a hundred percent. And I can imagine that being true for most early career clinicians, regardless of what sector you're in. I think my supervisors have been like the best thing and have been super supportive. And that's been, honestly, like I call it career saving because it's so easy to get into this field and be so overwhelmed and feel really unsupported.
So that's like my number one piece of advice for anybody who's trying to start a private practice is to seek really good supervision. How did you find a good supervisor? So like word of mouth, I would say I went through an experience with like not great supervisors before. And I realized that if I'm paying for an outside supervisor, that I actually have autonomy to like interview them and to make sure we're a good fit, just like, you know, you do with your therapist.
And so I had asked several trusted clinicians in the field if they knew of any colleagues who were accepting new supervisees. And it turned out to be my supervisor from community mental health, her really good friend from like a past job. And yeah, we worked together really, really well. So that speaks volumes about your supervisor in community mental health. Oh, my God. She was amazing. I tell her all the time.
I'm like, you are the reason that I got through that year, you know, and she also ended up leaving the agency. But yes, she's very, very amazing. I'm very grateful. Yeah, good, good. Because I know some of the people working in community mental health when I was doing my internship there, it was very much like private practices for sellouts. Yes. You're not a real social worker. For instance, if you're in private practice and private practice doesn't work was another phrase I heard.
Like it doesn't like nobody succeeds in private practice vibe. And this was before this was before there were private practice consultants and everybody being like, no, really, like it works for most people who, you know, work on it. So totally. Yeah, I think that's still like having graduated grad school not so long ago, that really still is kind of the overarching idea is that you should engage in a lot of like self-sacrifice in order to be in this career.
And I think that's still like a narrative that's being pushed in ways. And I'm assuming because you were not fully licensed, you weren't able to accept insurance. So you're a private pay. Yeah, exactly. Which also gets mixed reviews, right? Like, is that the ethical thing to do? Is it not ethical to do? Thankfully, I feel like the answer was given to me because I couldn't accept insurance. So it was kind of like something I didn't have to battle with that much.
And I try to do my part in like doing some sliding scale slots and whatnot, but I really have also pushed against the grain of, of not necessarily engaging in the narrative of you have to accept very little money for your skills and expertise in order to be a good therapist or like an ethical therapist, you know? Mm-hmm. I think it's kind of the people who've been in the career, in this career for a while will also say like the audacity of these young therapists.
And I would love for us to all just like own audacity. Like, yes, it's gumption. It's confidence. It's being willing to jump even though you're not positive the net is there. There's like a beauty in going for what you want, even though there are people telling you, you shouldn't. Yeah, totally. And I, again, I feel like the people who encourage that confidence in me, I want to replicate for like future people.
Because until like what I like to see a whole overhaul of our mental health system, a hundred percent, and it's not totally on a single person to do that. So until that change occurs and until insurance companies like kind of shift the way that they're doing things, I don't feel compelled to really be involved in that aspect of things. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you had some great supports. You had some naysayers. What was the building your practice process like?
Yeah. So a lot of learning curves, obviously, because they don't, they do not teach you that in grad school. Although I will say I had a great grad school professor who did like, who was a private practice owner and actually did lay out a few things, which I feel like is unique. And so obviously a lot of paperwork in the beginning of establishing your LLC and getting all your insurance and all of that.
And then really the main part has continued to be the marketing and the networking and really building a lot of great relationships, which honestly is one of my favorite parts. Like I love getting to go for coffee with a clinician or meet someone. I've also met amazing clinicians through social media, which is so fun. And like a surprising thing that I didn't know I was going to be a part of. So, yeah, now it's been like, actually, I think two years to today, which is kind of magic.
I think I established it August 1 of 2022. So it's a consistent, I feel like I didn't necessarily understand like the constant effort that it might've taken of like, I feel like I'm always posting or marketing or networking. And I love that side. Like I love the entrepreneur side of it more so than I kind of expected myself to. So yeah. What's your social media experience been like?
Yeah. So originally I remember I was talking to my littlest brother about building a business and he's like, well, you're going to go on TikTok, right? And I'm like, no. I don't think so. And then a couple of weeks later, I was on TikTok and I was only posting landscape videos. Like I was like, I don't want my face to be on it. And now I'm posting like twice a day with my face on it, talking about all sorts of things.
And so I'm on TikTok and Instagram, which are different and challenging to navigate, like the different algorithms and all of that. It's been trial and error for me. But a lot of my content I have now been able to carve into my niche too, which is working with folks with relational and attachment wounds. And I do a lot of parts work. And so I've been like really speaking to people who are wanting to do, you know, more relational therapy versus like CBT or behavioral therapy.
And I'd say like probably half of my referrals come from social media, which is awesome. Amazing. And not the case with most therapists on social media. What do you feel like you're doing that other people could replicate? I really do feel like I have carved out my niche over the two years I had. I was very general to begin with. And then I was like, oh, what do I like working with? And what types of clients really like invigorate me?
And so I think as I've gotten more specific and as I've gotten, I got more training in IFS. So I think specifically catering to that has been really helpful rather than like the very generalized templates that a lot of therapists are using. Yeah. How much self-disclosure or daily life kind of stuff do you tend to use for social media?
That's been one of the harder parts that I've actually been thinking about recently after talking with another clinician who said that she gets a lot of views on stuff about her life, which is interesting. And I think that it goes to the relational aspect of therapy. Like people want to know about their therapist. And I do like having pretty strong personal versus professional boundaries on social media.
However, when I get to be with my clients, I think I'm open to more self -disclosure and more of like a relational approach. But I just, I don't know. I have like a little bit of hesitation and fear around like what I put out there, which I think is probably a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, with TikTok, especially like there's such a wide reach. There are people seeing my videos and all like all over the world.
And it's not like I have like a wild following or anything, but I just get nervous of like, yeah, just protecting myself, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Which also makes sense with being a relational therapist, right? Like you're saving the intimacy for the people in your actual life, right? Like instead of just a million strangers on the internet. Yeah, exactly. So that's kind of what I'm comfortable with.
But I think it really depends on the therapist and maybe the type of work you're doing and all of that. And do you plan your content ahead of time? Do you like have... I'm honestly, I feel like I've been pretty like rogue with it. I feel like my whole private practice has been a learning curve and I just like throw things at a wall and see what sticks. I'm not super strategy oriented with my social media, which I don't know if that's the best advice.
I have heard that posting consistently is like the way to go. But really, like if I'm in between a session or I have like 30 minutes before starting my day, I'll go on and post something. But I don't usually like plan it out accordingly. Yeah, yeah. And so that's another thing you did that's outside the box, right? Because like therapists on social media is relatively new.
I'm thinking about the old codgers who were like mad that you're doing private practice pre -licensed, who are mad that you're doing private pay. I'm sure that they're willing to get mad that you're on social media as well. Yeah. So was there a time during your building phase where you listened to them more than you should have? Yes. I think especially the first year was really hard because to their point, like I didn't have a lot of experience.
Like I had my practicum and I had my internship and I think that I had a lot of imposter syndrome and I probably didn't have the best support in place yet because I hadn't done the work of really building that support up. Oh, there were like many times I like cried and questioned myself and was like, I don't know if I can be doing this. I don't know if I should be doing this. And that was hard. I'm trying to think of how I like kind of got through it. I think I just kept going.
I probably processed it in personal therapy and with my supervisors. And then as I continued building up and getting more clients and then like feeling really energized by the work that I'm doing and gaining confidence like with my experience, I think it helped propel me into kind of a more like secure and confident position. But yeah, the feedback or even just like judgment that I don't even know if that was like mine or theirs. It definitely was really hard in the beginning.
And especially if you're not getting as many clients as you want as soon as you get them, you know, as soon as you want them rather. Or, you know, I think therapists, one thing that we get better at over time is not timelining our client's journey. I know when I was a younger clinician, I always wanted them to be like healed up real fast, you know, and put a bow on it. And I think that's a fairly common young clinician response. And so if you feel like, oh, they're not getting healed up fast.
I'm not as good at my job as I should be. And then the like, and I'm not getting as many clients as I want when I want them. That's a hard thing to trudge through. For sure. And the slumps that seemingly come out of nowhere, like that I still haven't been able to necessarily time, you know, for example, I thought that December would be like my busiest month because everyone's freaking out and preparing for the holidays, especially working with like relational trauma.
And I think that was like one of my slowest months. And then it just, so kind of being two years into it and having a little bit more of an understanding of like the ebb and flow. And okay, my lowest number of clients this month, then the following month I have like the highest number of clients. The most referrals. So it's just like this kind of up and down that has been hard because I definitely am some sort of a control freak, you could say. So I'm like, oh my God, what am I doing wrong?
Or am I not doing enough? And so it's like also kind of working through that, like what comes up for you and your own insecurities when you do have a slow month or three clients cancel in a couple days or something like that. I'm actually in the middle of working on a course for the Yvonne Dance Party called ebbs, flows and plateaus. Sounds amazing. It addresses all of that. Yeah, because it's common, especially your first few years.
It's a lot more rollercoastery with number of referrals and you can be doing the exact same thing month to month for marketing and it's just landing differently or the results are different. And yeah, so it ends up leveling out for most people once they're established longer, but I would love to like calm as many freak outs as I can with that course. Yeah, that sounds amazing. Very necessary. What would you really like any pre-licensed therapist considering private practice to know?
If you could speak to all of them right now, what would you say? One, check your state laws, depending on your degree and licensure and all that, like it does vary state to state as we've said. Two, if you can do it, go for it, even if it's starting it on the side, I had two jobs when I was starting my practice and I moved out of the first job pretty quickly, but I stayed with the group practice up until very recently.
So having some sort of security there, I think was really important for me as I was getting started. And then three, it takes a lot of meaningful, I guess like work and effort to build a really great group of supportive people, but they're out there. And like, I meet with this peer support group once a month that we've kind of cultivated and like has been so, so helpful for clinical stuff, but also being like earlier career clinicians.
So finding support and then cultivating the group that you want to be supported by and keeping up with those connections, checking in with them, like really creating meaningful connections, go out for coffee. Don't just like do a quick 15 minute chat, like really engage in whatever that person's going through and whatever you're going through so that it feels meaningful and supportive. Yeah, I love that. Community is so vital.
Yes. So vital because most people do have people in their lives who are like, how don't you just get a nice stable job? Or don't you think it's a little early in your career to be doing this? Yeah. So to have other people who are doing it at the same time and who get you and get it, it's so important. Yeah, totally. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Emily. I'm really glad that you came on and I think it's going to be helpful.
I think it's helpful for people to hear from another person if they don't have one in their community, that this is doable. This is, you do not have to wait till you get burned out to start private practice. In fact, I would personally so much rather people go right into private practice and not have to unlearn all the shit I had to unlearn in my agency days. Yes, 100%. Well, thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. I'm so glad you're here. Have a really great day. Thank you.
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