(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support.
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The majority of Party Plus members fill their practice in three months. Check out Party Plus in the link in the show notes and join the interest list if you're ready to build what you've been dreaming of. Hey, Cynthia. Hey, Allison. How are you doing? I'm good. I feel like I just want to have a moment to fangirl out with you. It's just me. Yeah. It's you. First, I just want to say thanks for everything and the support that you have created.
I really benefited from the Abundance Private Practice building. It was really solid where I could go back or just replay, and I still have it as supplementary and it's almost like, oh my god, if I don't continue, what's going to happen? Well, the party is always there for you, even if, you know, but yeah, I'm so glad it was so helpful. Yay!
So I wanted to join in and yeah, just like really grateful that the your office hours are open and I got the last spot and I was like, okay, this was meant to be. Amazing.
Yeah. So I've been a, I've been in, so my name's Sin, I use she, they pronouns, I'm a queer Chicana therapist that's licensed in California and New York and I have climbed my way into the nonprofit system and essentially like, you know, navigated the nonprofit system like way before grad school and now that I am in private practice full time, I want to build a BIPOC consultation group and it is specifically for, you know, BIPOC folks who have, who are the first in their family
to go to college, who are like looking for that roadmap. Yeah. And I want, you know, as the eldest queer daughter. Leave it to an eldest daughter to start a group. I love it.
I want to be able to offer the space for them, you know, and I think where I feel good is I feel good about the price, I feel good about the content, you know, and I, and I do and I think what I could benefit from is like maybe learning a little bit about your experience building groups, but also the experience of building a group that is centered around not transitioning like my, where I'm wanting to work with my ideal folks is transit, like think they're at this place of change of
like, do I want to grow a nonprofit or do I just want to say like, fuck it, like, let me figure it out on my own, you know, you want to be able to lead them to determine that, but I also really want them to embody their core values of who they are.
So I'm wondering how do you determine when you're like, like kind of like tightening up, you know, like the, the, the process and, and like, just, I'm thinking about like things to consider because one right now, my time is 12 weeks and it's like theme, like themes very of like, you know, building connection with the group and, you know, going into, you know, talking about like how white supremacy like impacts like the nonprofit system and then like talking about like undoing that and unraveling
it and like going into this like witchcraft space of like, here are some things, here are some of these like embodiments that you already have, like, why don't you strengthen them and like highlight them, you know, and then the rest is kind of like integration, you know, but like more like I'm, I'm really trying to be mindful of like, one, how do I like conceptualize like this is like, I'm not going to teach you how to like set up an escort, you know, teach you how to like, you know, like I
can teach you like the general, like give you general resources, but I really want to focus more on that embodiment piece. And for you to feel like a lot stronger of this is where I want to go, or this is also how I want to approach myself. Got it. Yeah. Well, I mean, it always starts with that ideal client, right? Which it sounds like you've either got or are close to getting.
Yeah. You have a clear idea of who they are, and thinking when it comes to marketing it, it's thinking about what results do they want or need? Because this is slightly, it's slightly different from therapy, right? So like my ideal clients want a need to get full in their practice, right? Like that's their goal. Your ideal clients are probably not like, how can I live more within my values, right? They're not necessarily there.
They just know something's off and that there's maybe some existential dread, or there's some sense of like, they feel like they're selling out, but they don't know why or how, because like here they are working at a nonprofit for instance. And that's the opposite of selling out, right?
So finding, finding out what results or what their current lived experiences, like how they would describe it, what they complained to their friends about and how they talk to their therapist about it differently. Is there the complaints? And then there's the juice and having a good idea of those things where they overlap and where they're very different. And then you can tailor based on how, how surface or how deep you want to get in these. It sounds like you want to go deeper.
You can talk more about the juice. It can be like adjunctive to their therapy work and not their therapy work, especially in a group. I think about the other therapists in your community who serve the BIPOC community one-on -one letting them know about this group and, and your goals with it so that they can be, you can share clients essentially.
I think naming in your marketing, naming the heavy topics that you're going to be talking about, but talking about those things specifically like the impact of white supremacy on nonprofit management, the impact of supremacy on healthcare in general, because they're out of the frying pan into the fire in some circumstances, you know? So how to negotiate internally what might be a better fit without necessarily expecting a perfect fit or what could a perfect fit look like?
Like what can you create on your own outside of any systems that would truly serve the people you want to serve and feel really aligned with you? So I think naming the things at play that are making them feel the way that they're feeling. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I'm really proud of my name that I'm calling the group because it's called Off the Record. Love it.
Yes. Yeah, because it's, you know, it really goes back to, and it, you know, this is like a lived experience for anyone, you know, who has gone through the nonprofit systems or internships in mental health care that, you know, we're not going to tell our supervisors that we're thinking about leaving. You know, there are some folks who are like, yes, I'm good. Like, my supervisor supports me, but like, more than likely, we're not going to say that, you know?
Right. And I was a people manager before, you know, so I get it. I understand it. And also, you know, like, you deserve a space to like, really determine if this is the route that you want to go. So I think what I am hearing from you is thinking about what they talk about with their friends. Also, like, what is the juice? And I'm like, really thinking about, can you like, share more about me conceptualizing the juice?
Yeah. So it might be that their complaint to their friends might be like, my boss is just such a jerk. I can't do anything right. I never get any positive reinforcement. It sucks. And that's the like, surface level complaint versus the juice is, I feel like I'm never enough. Yeah. And I'm working in a system that's never going to affirm me, period. I know it. And I keep staying in this system. And why am I staying in this system? Is it fear? Is it learned helplessness? Is it lack of creativity?
Like, what is it in me that I'm seeing as a bad, wrong thing that keeps me stuck? So it's just that next layer under that can go pretty intense, depending. But I think there are few, if any, institutions that are going to be a healthy place for people, is my perspective. Like, the bigger something gets, the less safe it becomes. Yeah. So I think about these big nonprofit systems. I think about even like a local nonprofit that's just grown too fast. You know? Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
And yeah, so that's, I really appreciate that. And like, for you elaborating a bit more about the juice. And it's like, yeah, I was thinking that I wanted to make sure it's like, yeah, like that relational piece of like, am I enough? Is this what it is? So that's really helpful to consider. And then would I use that juice then to kind of inform kind of what they're going to walk away with? Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Because there's, you know, we can't promise results.
We're never going to promise results. But to say like, the focus of the group is on these things, how systems, how are, when we feel stuck in systems, what that's getting to in us, there's a much more elegant way of saying this, but you know, like what, basically how to extract ourselves. And not just from a like, take this step, then the next step, but just how to emotionally extract ourselves from systems that we continue to stay with.
I mean, it's like a bad, I always think about jobs, like bad relationships. It's like an abusive relationship. It's hard to get out of. Getting to this point of like the fact that it's BIPOC only. So it is maybe one of the only truly safe spaces that they have that's organized and not just a part of their peer or social group.
I think with your population, there being some assurance that they're not going to have to spend this time taking care of everybody else that there's, you know, mutual support, mutual aid, basically, you know, that they're not going to have to step into that social worker role or whatever for another hour this week. Definitely, definitely. And then I have a question. So I've been a part of groups myself.
I ran groups, but one thing that like I personally never did, as this is like my first time doing a group coaching, or I don't even know if it's like group process, group coaching, you know, group consultation. But what I also think about is like aftercare. So I'm like wondering, like from your lived experience, like how do you offer aftercare or care during groups that are similar to something that I'm sharing? Give me more, give me an example.
Yeah, like, let's say that they're, you know, I, the way that I personally envisioned it was that we would meet every other, we would meet every other week, you know, but I am anticipating what would have questions come up, what if somebody needs to talk or something? And I'm like, I wonder, like, what are additional ways that I can show up that is beneficial or that also like makes sense?
You know, yeah, wanting to do is like, honor my boundaries and then honor my time commitment to what I am offering and also have like any like energy exchanges be like reciprocal for, you know, what I, during that time and also what they're paying for. Because I think one thing, like one roadblock for me is, I feel like, I think I've just in my own lived experience, you know, overgiving, you know, tends to be a, tends to be a common theme in my own life. So I want to be right sized.
Absolutely. So I think, I have a couple of thoughts about it. I think there could be, it depends on what we're framing it as because a process group is going to be really different from a consultation group is going to be really different from a coaching group. A coaching group, you're also supposed to start a new business. So now, you know, that's the, that's the guideline. I'll say that.
Yeah. That you are not their primary therapist, even if it's a process group, it might be that you let them know on the front of that. You want to make sure that they have a good support system because this might stir up some stuff depending, like a consultation group, you could potentially have like a WhatsApp that you can say like, I'm going to check in on it.
Once a day for five minutes, but I really want y'all to support one another as the purpose of it, but I'll keep eyes on just so I can stay abreast of what's going on with everybody over the course of two weeks. You could also do that with the coaching. If you decide to do it as a coaching group process group, I don't think HIPAA is going to work there. So there are some options.
I think it could also be that your support is the next day you send an email to everyone that sums up the call and the goals for the next two weeks and that that's it. Yeah. That you can just be like, here is our, like, here's your running off point. This is where we're headed thematically. And to trust that, like, they've got resources, internal and external resources to help support them so that you don't fall into overgiving.
Cause I don't want you doing a group every two weeks, but talking to different people every day. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. That's where, that's where I am. That's where I was at. And I, I appreciate the recaps cause it's like, yeah, like I, like in my nonprofit job, like I did do like debriefs and recaps and I haven't thought about that. And I think that is a good container in that reminder of like, yeah, checking it, checking my phone or the WhatsApp group, like once a day, you know?
But I would invite them to like build that echo system with one another. Right. Yeah. And then now I have a question between, so now I know like it don't call it coaching. So that's, that's clear, but processing and consultation, I feel like, because the way that I'm like structuring it is I want to do a check-in. I have thematic questions that really go with the content of what I'm doing. And then the consultation piece is that's where I was thinking of like the tangible, you know, items.
So what I, I'm wondering like for you, like, does it sound more like consultation from what I'm saying? Because I do have the content and it's like, yeah, like I definitely want them to like come out with their bio, with their about me and whatever. I want them to also come out with the mood board, you know? So it's like, yeah, there are like tangible things that are going to like feel good about this is what I'm going to do, but then like the next steps. So is that like, would that be consult?
It feels more consultative to me with process, but like really like most consultations I've ever done involve feelings, right? So things get processed. So I would think it could be framed as like career consultation or something like that. And then there will be those more emotional process chicken kind of pieces to it. And that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's peers.
Like I think if these were, if these weren't a bunch of therapists or people who could be therapists or whatever, then it might be different, but because it's all peers, to me, it makes sense for it to be more of like a career consultation with process. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. That's all really helpful. Yeah. Anything else I can answer for you that would help give you a jumping off point? Yeah. I'm like, I have 10 minutes. There's time. Yeah. There's so much time.
I feel like, I feel like that is helpful in terms of the juice naming it as like framing, obviously like framing it as consultation and the scaffolding of like following up and checking. I feel like those were kind of the main things that I was thinking about. And then maybe I'll ask more about like on the back end, like admin professional side. So I'm still a sole proprietor.
That was something that was discussed between my accountant and myself for the time being, as I'm so early into my private practice. And then also in the state of California, you have to do an S corp, you know, it makes sense right now for this, but is there anything that I should think about or consider around my own admin piece or the, maybe like the business side of building a group consultation, like as a sole proprietor?
I think being really clear about what kinds of notes you're keeping, because like, if it's a process group versus a consultation group, it's going to be really different. So your recap could be your note for the consultation group. No problem. Are you screening people? That's an important thing to consider. And you can go, I think that there are some things in the training that Katie K. May did around filling groups. It could be really helpful. That's in the training section in the party.
So it's one of our first ones actually. So you may, I don't remember if it goes oldest to newest or vice versa. You may have to scroll a bit, but still really relevant, great information that she shared. If it's recurring billing versus paying all at once, that's another thing to consider. And if it's paying all at once, is there then a discount? If it's recurring, how do you handle it if things bounce? Like have that whole plan ahead of time before you have a single person sign up.
That way it doesn't get attached to, but I really love this person. It can be like, I really love this person and they need to pay for the group that they got before they can come to the next group. So that kind of thing. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Yeah. That's really helpful of like, yeah. Checking in with the screening. I feel like where the, where groups are going is like paying monthly is where it's at right now than like going all at once.
And yeah, that is helpful to think about like, if things bounce, this is, this is the process. Yeah. Yeah. And having informed consent that everybody signs for the group. It doesn't have to be because it's consultation. It doesn't have to be as like beefy as a regular informed consent, but just something that covers confidentiality.
Yeah. And that's also something like if I were to do like business consultation, because people have asked me if I would be willing to do business consultation, like way before this group started, or people don't even know, people don't know about it yet, but for business consultation as a sole proprietor, and if I were to say business consultation, like I don't have to make another business. It's part of, is that part of it? It depends on your license. It all depends on your license.
If your license says that that's covered, then it's covered, but I don't know any licenses that cover it. Okay. So they see it like outside your therapy scope, whereas career consultation is still kind of within your therapy scope because yeah. Got it. Okay. It's nuanced. I also don't know anybody who's gotten into trouble for it, but I want to, I want to give the good true information just in case somebody does get in trouble for it someday.
Yeah. So, you know, framing it as career consultation. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm always of the mind of like doing everything like in a matter of abundance, you know, and just being very clear. And that's something that I want to make sure that I'm like, as a sole proprietor, what does that mean? I think like a sole proprietor shouldn't prevent or it shouldn't really dictate that any differently than the way you would run it by, like through your ethics anyway. So yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much.
Absolutely. It was great talking with you and I hope that this group fills quickly and that everybody gets exactly what they wanted and more. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. I wish you will keep us updated in the Facebook group. I want to hear how it's going. Yeah. Thank you so much, Alison. Bye. If you're ready for a much easier practice, Therapy Notes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code abundant for two months free.
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