(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support.
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The majority of Party Plus members fill their practice in three months. Check out Party Plus in the link in the show notes and join the interest list if you're ready to build what you've been dreaming of. Welcome back to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm your host, Allison Puryear. I'm really excited to be here with Stephanie Feld talking about intensives.
She runs the Intensive Design Lab, and she's going to talk to us today about how to offer intensives, what that looks like, what that can do for your practice. I'm really excited about it. So thanks for being here. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. This is so exciting. Yeah. First, can we do a little origin story? Like, what got you interested in intensives? Yeah, the funny thing is, I heard about intensives probably more than 10 years ago from a friend who's also a therapist.
And at the time, I thought, that cannot be real. Like, there is no way that a client travels to a therapist in a lovely location and does intensive therapy for a week. I was like, that can't be ethical. And fast forward till now, my practice is exclusively intensives, and I support therapists to offer them in their practice as well. So very kind of like an ironic thing. But I think a lot of people have that experience where they're like, that can't be a thing. Or what even is that? You know?
Yeah, yeah. Intuitively, you could imagine what it is. But that's the question I get the most is like, but what is it really? Right. And I mean, I think about two therapists as, you know, obviously, I love therapists, and you love therapists. But as a group, we can be very judgy if something is outside of the box of what we have seen therapy as.
Yeah. We can get real like, we'll slap an unethical tag on that real quick, instead of exploring and actually looking at our code of ethics, which actually isn't excluding this at all. No. Yeah. In fact, I think in some ways, it can be more ethical if it's serving the client's needs and like giving them more autonomy and like self determination over the way that they want to receive services, or like their therapy. So that's kind of been cool to explore.
Yeah. And to be able to get relief in a finite period of time, that otherwise was like outpatient one on one once a week, once every other week could have taken a significantly longer period of time. Absolutely. It really is a gift to be able to offer it and a gift for the clients who choose it. So a hundred percent, you say a week at a time, and I hear of intensives often as maybe over the course of two days, or maybe one very long session in one day.
So I know intensives can look a lot of different ways. Can you talk us through that? Yeah. I think that's the most fun part is that you can be really creative, and you can make it really custom to your clients and to your life. You know, all of us have a lot of different things going on. Maybe you have kids at home, caring for a parent or grandparent, or, you know, like there's all kinds of things that can change the way we need to practice, but there's a ton of options.
So some people do a long day, like you're saying, like six hours, you know, three hours in the morning, three in the afternoon with like an hour lunch break, that can work really well for couples, you know, cause then you're seeing them together and like one -on-one through the course of a day, which I'm just like, Ooh, I don't even do couples work. And then you can do half days. So like for me, I'm a highly sensitive person. I'm neurodivergent, about three hours feels really great to me.
And I practice EMDR. So you know, there's really, when you're doing that deep trauma work, about three hours feels pretty good. And I tend to meet with people three days in a row. So there's still kind of in that like therapy experience, you're not going back to your life and putting on your mom hat or like you're going back to work and getting all that stress. You're still like very much in the experience and you just get to go so much deeper. So that's one benefit.
Well, I'm curious about something you said for your people who are local, who do it, are you still recommending like stay at a hotel? Don't go back to real life, just stay in the soup. If they can, I think that's really beneficial and it allows you to get so much more out of it. You know, that's not like everyone's situation, but especially many of us are moms or like women, women therapists, just being able to stay in a hotel and not be woken up at night.
I felt like, as you said, like staying in a hotel, I'm like alone. Amazing. Yeah. I do it for my business masterminds that I'm a part of, but like, otherwise there's, there's none of that in my life. No, like you don't have to feed anyone dinner. You don't have to take anybody to soccer practice. It's just your time. And that can be really appealing for a lot of reasons. Absolutely.
Especially if you're like going through the hard stuff instead of like shutting it down so they can be on mom mode or partner mode or whatever, you can just stay with it as much as you can tolerate. Cause that's part of what you're paying for is the space to tolerate and start to really make some headway. Even, even in the evenings, like when they're not in front of you. Exactly. And how many clients do we have?
Who's like, we, it's so hard to slide into that really deep place because you know, in an hour I'm walking out that door and then I have to handle on my own, whatever comes up. And so some people, you know, we, we stay on the surface trying to stay safe, but when people do intensives, a lot of the time they're like, look, I know this is the time I need to do it. I'm ready to go all in. And there's like more freedom and permission to go to those really deep places.
And it's like a high, I think for therapists to be like, that's the type of work we want to do all the time and Format like really allows for that. So I love it. It's, it's amazing. So things coming up for me that I'm guessing comes up among your students too. I have this fear. If I were to do like a week long intensive with someone, what if we run out of things? What do I do? People always say that, which is so funny because there's always more, right?
Like humans are so complex and usually, usually it's like the right amount of time, but even if it's not, then you just say, okay, what do we want to spend this time for? Because it is highly focused. There is definitely a goal for that time. And that's what we're focusing on. But then there's so much freedom for consent and changing lanes, because, you know, when you start to do deep work with people, things come up that you did not expect, or you had no clue was related.
And so you have the freedom to go down that trail and then like, bring it back to the, to the main focus. So usually when people do intensives, they say that at first, and then when they've done it, they're like, oh, I think I need more time. So people actually come back for like multiple intensives because clients really like that experience too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's very efficient and there's somebody who values efficiency. I can very much appreciate it.
Yes. Like efficient for us and for the clients. And I'm all about alleviating suffering as much as we can. And if someone can feel better and not suffer for a year that it would take us to do work, you know, week by week, and it can happen sooner. Oh my gosh. By all means, let's do that. And then like, go live your life, you know, like get back to the good stuff. Cause sometimes it feels like it, it can feel like a snail's, a snail's pace. It can.
Yeah. I'm guessing for people who go from intensives back to one-on-one, it probably feels frustrating in some ways. Yeah. Or maybe it opens up some things for those like outpatient one-on-ones that like the intensive unlock something that helps that move faster. Oh, definitely.
Like I do a lot of adjunctive work and so people will have like a primary therapist that they see week by week, but maybe they get stuck or it just a different topic comes up and it's outside the scope of their primary therapist. So they'll come do like an intensive and it does, it opens up this whole new realm that they then can go back to their primary therapist and like continue on in the work they've been doing.
So it's really fun to collaborate and partner with other therapists that way too. Yeah, that's cool. So you're helping other therapists provide intensives. Are there certain modalities that lend more towards intensives or modalities that lend away from intensives? Anything people need to be considering? It's such a good question and there are definitely modalities that practice intensives more.
So, you know, I said I'm trained in EMDR, there's such a wealth of information about how to offer intensives from that perspective. And then as I was thinking of other people, I'm thinking this, like any modality could be used in an intensive model. Like there are so many different ways to do it that I think there's like so much possibility. So like I said, couples work, oh my gosh, whoever gets to the end of a couple session and they're like, we ran out of time, you know what I mean?
You need more and maybe you get into a topic with the couples and then you're sending them back under the same roof and thinking, I don't know how that's going to go. So it's nice to like have that space with couples work. Another one is CBT and like ERP. So like fears, phobias, OCD, like exposure therapy can be really cool to do intensives around. There's some research around like pediatric OCD and intensives. Yeah, so cool.
And then you can like include a family session in there or like work with the parent. Like, you know, as someone who started out doing play therapy, you work with a child, but of course the whole family system is like really important when it comes to what this child's going through. So another intensive that's really common is family intensives. And so that's, you know, more people, you kind of need more time to like really make progress.
So the answer is yes and no. I think there's some that have more longevity when it comes to offering intensives like EMDR, brain spotting, ART, all those trauma focused modalities. But I'm really about like not gatekeeping and saying, if you offer a valuable experience in 50 or 53 minutes, you can definitely do that in three hours and see how it feels for you and see how it feels for your clients. The therapists I work with are like, I can't, I can't go back.
Like I can't unknow what I know now, you know, it's so wild. Yeah. Yeah. When I just think about like the flow of business is so different just from a business model perspective, there's a freedom to it because you're not like on the hook for every week. I was just talking to somebody who's, whose partner travels every other week. And so every other week is incredibly hard when all of the home stuff is on her and work.
And so we were brainstorming some different ways to like make that, make the disparate week to week patient numbers make sense, like how to make that happen. And this would be a great way that I'm going to turn her on to. Yes. That's literally my schedule. Like I do every other week intensives. And part of that was also living with chronic illness. You know, like I was noticing is really hard. Some weeks I would have a lot of energy other weeks I wouldn't.
And I was like, what do you do with that in your practice to try to make sure that it supports, you know, you and your health. So that's neat to kind of explore that option. Yeah. So wild. They're like, you know, a million different structures, right? So you could do three hours, you could do a full week. You could do, you know, any amount of hours per day, depending on what your stamina is and what's best for the client.
How do you help your students figure out what's best for them and their client? Like, how do you walk them through that? I know we usually just talk about all the options. And I mean, sometimes intuitively, you just know this is what's going to work for me, or this is what, you know, fits with my client's life logistically. But a lot of times we don't know until we try it.
And so I just tell people, you know, as much as your schedule can tolerate to try different formats and see what feels good to you. In the beginning, I tried all kinds of weird, experimented with different configurations of intensives. And then when you land on something that works really well for you, it's like finding that shoe or that bathing suit that you're like, oh yeah, this is it, you know? And then you can kind of like build from there.
But I think there's definitely sort of like a soul searching and experimentation phase in the beginning. Yeah, which when you're coming from a very structured meet with clients once a week into the unknown, into the unknown. And when it's your livelihood, you know, like financially, that can be really scary to experiment. Yeah, but it sounds like, I mean, it's something that you could shift to over time.
Like you could be with still a lot of one-on-one clients and still incorporate this into your practice as you make the transition, if you wanted to, to full intensives. Right, right. You could. A lot of people do hybrids. So they have some clients who meet weekly or every other week. And then some intensive weeks, some people, you know, use it as a way to have additional income.
Like if they do see clients, they are contracted with insurance, they may have like private pay intensives to supplement. So there's, again, I know that can be scary to think, oh my gosh, there's so many possibilities. How do I figure out what's good for me? But on the flip side of that, there's so many possibilities. So one of these is bound to, you know, be really supportive for you. Yeah. No cookie cutter approach. Right, right.
Are there any red flags that wouldn't be like immediately obvious to those of us who were new to this idea? In terms of assessing whether a client is appropriate for an intensive. Yeah, I think it's very specific to each therapist and the work you do. So, you know, if you do DBT, then your clients are probably going to have some of the things that I would consider a risk factor that I wouldn't work with in my work. So it really depends just what you offer. Right, right.
Because if you've been doing DBT, you can probably roll with that stuff in a way that I might be less comfortable with. Yeah, like if I think it depends on the goal of the intensive because you could have an intensive that's just about stabilization and it could be a step down from inpatient or IOP, you know, like that's filling a need that doesn't really exist formally. So that's a possibility. Other people may say, you know, for me,
I'm like, OK, I'm doing EMDR. I would love for people to be able to stay in their window of tolerance, you know, as much as possible for that period of time. Typically, I say no suicide attempts within like the last six months. That's so arbitrary because stability isn't measured by that. But that's just like a rule of thumb. I don't work with eating disorders. That's not my specialty.
So if that's what's going on, I make sure they have a primary therapist or a physician who's monitoring that while we're working together. So I've kind of come up with my own screening tools. And the students who are in the design lab, they get kind of like a template of possible screening or like eligibility criteria. And then they can decide based on the type of intensive they want to offer, what's going to be the screening or eligibility candidacy that fits for them. Yeah, amazing.
And how do you help people price these? Because I know there's the one-on-one model where we have our fee and we know what it is. Do you just do that same fee by hour of how often you're like, how many times, how many hours you're working with them? How are you helping people figure that out? Well, there's a couple different options. One, and when I started, I just charged my hourly rate for as many hours as I was doing. I started with current clients.
And so that just felt like an easy segue to kind of get my feet wet. And a lot of people do that. They'll start with current clients that they already know, that they feel comfortable with and kind of like dive in that way. But once you've been doing it for a while, or maybe upfront, you're like, I know this is powerful. I'm telling you the amount of transformation and results that clients see is shocking.
So that really gave me confidence to charge these premium private pay fees that I had seen people charging in Facebook groups or wherever. And I'm thinking, wow, that's amazing. But I don't know if I could. But once I had so many clients, like literally leaving saying, it's so cheesy, but they're like, my life has changed. And I'm thinking, this is not standard therapy. This is something else. This is a life changing experience. And it really gave me that confidence to charge the premium rates.
So we're talking like 300 plus an hour. And you can charge it hourly. Like some people that feels good to them. I have a package and that's what I teach students. So we have like a pre-intensive session that essentially is like an intake. There's a client workbook that this is part of that like premium experience. It's like this lovely like magazine kind of thing off of Canva that just like welcomes them into the experience. It helps them like orient to what to expect.
There's a ton of preparation activities and assessments. So it really is, it does feel very different. Although what we're doing clinically is very similar to what we would do in a weekly session. It creates this like container that is really powerful. So there's the workbook. Then I have the intensive sessions and a follow-up session. So after two to four weeks, I want to see people again and see, okay, where are you at? You know, is what you experienced in the intensive still?
Like, are you still seeing those same results? Is anything triggering you? And then we talk about next steps. You know, like what their journey looks like moving forward. So all that is a part of the intensive package. And people pay a 50% deposit at the time that they book. And then they get that their client workbook. They do it all. And then we meet for the intake. And the remaining 50% they pay on the day one of the intensive. Amazing.
I love that structure because it feels very clear for the client, clear for the therapist. Yeah. And I always love when something is priced according to outcome instead of hour. A hundred percent. It just makes more sense. It's not as easy for everyone to wrap their mind around when they're thinking in that button chair model, but it's still, it's effective. And like marketing, how do you market this in a way that keeps this your entire practice? Yes. So it really is.
I like everything else, you know, private pay. It really is about niche and about what are the folks coming in? Like what are their pain points? And where do they want to be on the other side of the intensive? I'm being really, really specific about that. Yes. And a lot of people don't know. I mean, a lot of therapists don't know what an intensive is. So clients definitely don't know.
But when we can share the benefits of it, you don't have to have a weekly session if you don't want to, you know, if you travel or you have a busy family schedule, whatever it is, like you have the option to do an intensive format of therapy. And a lot of my students, that's the very first thing they do is they just change their auto responder to new inquiries and just say this, I offer weekly and intensives. And it shares what it is.
You would be shocked how many people without much marketing or messaging at all, just opt for the intensive option because that's just what they prefer. Yeah, yeah. And telling other therapists. So the majority of my referrals at this point are from other therapists who are working with someone and they think, okay, even if we do the same exact work, the same modalities, this client would benefit from the intensive format.
So, you know, of course, in the beginning, like anything else, we're just trying to connect with people, build awareness around this topic and this option of therapy. But I mean, people get really excited about it, clients and other therapists. I mean, it is exciting, really. It's a totally different way of doing things. My brain is going in a million different ways of like, somebody in my group practice who would be amazing at intensives and just thinking, wouldn't that be so great for her?
She loves teenagers, they're her favorite, but the erratic, you know, summer started, they're often from well-to-do families, so they're in Japan for the month or ways where it's not really feasible for them to be able to hop on a telehealth call. No, not at all. And like, who wants to do that while you're in Japan?
And teenagers love them, honestly, because you can have these like really whatever, like deep talking moments, but then you can be doing an activity or you could be doing something somatic. There's so much possibility for integration, you know, having yoga, having art, music, because you have more time. So it's like, you actually get to use more of the tools in your toolbox, and you can flow with whatever that client needs in that moment.
So it's just, yeah, it's like the therapist playground, honestly. Yeah, I love it. I mean, it's just so smart. How can people get in touch with you, Stephanie? Because I know people listening are going to be feeling like I feel right now. I'm like, I want to know more. I know, I know. I want this to be available, and I want to get it and know how to do it. Yes, yes. Well, I host a Facebook group, The Therapy Intensive Community. And so that is the perfect place.
We have a lot of therapists from all different backgrounds and modalities gathering around this topic of intensives. There's a ton of like free content, trainings, resources. So that's the number one place. And then my website is kaleidoscopecounselingstl.com. And if you're not a Facebook person, which I know a lot of people are not, all that content is also available on YouTube. So we will not forget you. Yes, very good.
And so if people are like, okay, I'm sold, like I'm ready to hop in, your website is the way to do that? Yep, yeah. Okay, cool. Awesome. Thank you so much. I think this is just so fun and interesting. And I love outside the box. So yeah, I appreciate your time. Yeah. If you're ready for a much easier practice, Therapy Notes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code ABUNDANT for two months free. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.