Equine Veterinary Advocacy

Welcome to Practice Life, the podcast devoted to the important, non-clinical issues affecting the daily practice of equine veterinary medicine.

Practice Life is brought to you by the American Association of Equine Practitioners. I'm Jessica Dunbar, a practice owner and veterinarian, and a longtime AAEP member, and your co-host. I'm Travis Boston, a practice owner and a veterinarian, and a longtime AEP member, and your co-hosts. Berringer Ingelheim believes that by supporting today's veterinary students, we can help enable future industry advancements.

Through the Berringer Ingelheim Veterinary Scholars Program and strong partnerships with veterinary universities, we are helping future veterinarians prepare for a range of veterinary careers. Learn more about our program by visiting veterinaryscholars.bringer-ingelheim.com. Hello, and welcome to another episode of AAEP Practice Life. I'm Jessica Dunbar, and I have my co-host here, Dr. Travis Boston. How are you doing today, Travis?

Great. How are you? It's finally warmed up. It's finally spring. Things are busy. Things are popping. It's the best time of year. So happy for that. Jessica and I would like to take a moment on our tiny practice life stage to reach out to the friends and family and anyone who knows Dr. Sean Frainer and his tragic end in Lake Mead recently.

The whole story of public criticism, social media, keyboard warriors, and how that situation devolved from what it was to really end this man's life has affected a lot of people in our community, in the AEP community, in the horse vet community. It's terrible. It's awful. I don't know how to even put into words the tragedy. This is. And we just wanted to take a moment at the beginning here to really say we are so sorry. We are so supportive of anyone who needs help.

And if there's anything that we can do or the AP can do, please reach out. We will try to do everything we can. But at the end of the day, unfortunately, all we can do is offer our most sincere condolences and hope that something like this wakes us up enough to how horrible it was that it never, ever happens again. And we will try to move on and have a fun podcast in the face of that.

But we wanted to take a moment to just recognize what's happening out there in the wider world and how awful it is. Travis, thank you for bringing that up. And I think it's shaken a lot of us. So anybody out there listening, if there's anything we can do to help you, please, please reach out.

So moving forward with our wonderful topic today. We have two guests joining us, and we're going to be talking about advocacy and how organized veterinary medicine advocates for each of us practitioners out there. So, Travis, would you like to introduce our guests? Absolutely. We have a couple of great guests today, and I'd just like you to take a minute and give us a brief personal bio, if you could.

We'll start with Dr. Will French, and just give us a few minutes of who you are and maybe why you're here today. Thank you so much for the invitation to be with you today. I really appreciate it. As you said, my name is Dr. Will French. I'm an equine practitioner. I'm a shareholder at Littleton Equine Medical Center outside of Denver in Colorado.

I graduated from CSU Vet School in 2011, did my internship at Littleton Equine, and have stayed on as an associate and now as a shareholder since that time. I spend most of my days in practice doing sports medicine type of things, but as I'm sure you'll hear a little bit more about the background, became heavily involved in organized veterinary medicine just a couple of years after graduation and in particular on the advocacy front of organized veterinary medicine.

And so that's what we're going to chat about a little bit today. And I just need to mention that I get to work with Will French every day, and it's been a pleasure kind of watching him and his journey through that organized veterinary medicine. So thank you, Will. You're too kind. We are also joined by Dr. Ashley Morgan, who is going to tell us a little bit about herself. Thank you for the opportunity to be here. I'm Ashley Morgan.

I'm in the new role of Director of Equine Welfare and Advocacy here at AUP. I started out as an equine practitioner after graduating from Cornell in 2004 and then completed an internship at Blue Ridge Equine Clinic in Virginia. After a few years of practice, I did find myself pursuing the AVMA Congressional Fellowship, and that was working for a year in a U.S. senator's office. I then decided to actually stay in Washington, D.C.

And join the staff at AVMA's Government Relations Division for what I thought would be a short stint in policy work and then maybe return to practice. But I stayed on for nine years working as a federal lobbyist, legislation, regulations affecting veterinary medicine, and then transitioned to lead AVMA's Division of State Advocacy the last eight years. So a full shift from private practice and then just joined AEP staff at the end of March. So excited to be both at AEP and here today.

Thank you very much for all that you've done, both of you. Let's hear a little bit more about that. Let's stick with Ashley here. Can you tell us what your role currently is at AAP with a little more detail? Sure. As I mentioned, it is a new role, so newly created position. I think the idea is that it's designed to expand and strengthen AEP's role, really, in advocating for the equine veterinary profession.

In this role, I will lead AEP's efforts on critical issues like scope of practice, including areas such as equine dentistry, animal welfare, and the broader concept of social license to operate. These are areas that directly affect how AEP members practice and how the profession is perceived.

We're really working to elevate AEP's engagement and advocacy by becoming a stronger, more visible resource for the state veterinary medical associations and really be a leading voice for equine veterinarians nationwide. A key part of that effort involves actually building an engaged network of AEP members who are passionate about advocacy and equipping them really with the tools and support to get involved at both the local, state and federal level.

So, of course, we'll be looking for those interested in being a part of that. I do think AEP has been a long-trusted advocate for our members and the profession and really collaborate closely with, of course, the AVMA and the American Horse Council to really ensure that the equine veterinary perspective is represented in policy discussions, whether that's at the federal or state level.

And then that advocacy includes not just engaging with lawmakers, but also educating our members so that they can be effective voices in their communities and professional networks. That's kind of where we are. We'll see how it evolves and goes. I'm so glad we're talking about this today because it really is, man, it's all of our responsibilities to stay engaged. And thank you for your help in that. Will, let's switch back to you. How have you been involved in organized veterinary medicine?

So I first was sort of introduced to Organized Veterinary Medicine soon after graduation when I joined a Power of 10 group for recent graduates through our state veterinary medical association. It's a year-long program to build community among recent graduates and introduce them to different aspects of Organized Veterinary Medicine.

AAP has something similar in the Starting Gate program, but both Power of 10 and Starting Gate are both fantastic opportunities to sort of get plugged in as a new practitioner. Soon after that first year, I was asked to be on the board of the Colorado Veterinary Medical Association, which was a big eye-opener for sure to understand what all happens at the state level.

And I think it was my first year on the board, the executive director said, we have a bill coming in front of the legislature about some compounded medications. Can you just come down and testify? And I about threw up when he asked me that. I was like, I am not qualified to do this. But that was kind of my first foray into advocacy. And that was about 10 years ago. And so I spent five or six years on the CVMA board, a large part of which was focused on different advocacy efforts.

Then most recently have served as the chair of the Advocacy Commission for the Colorado Veterinary Medical Association. And that's kind of the group that formulates policy for the association and serves as a group of people that can testify on different issues and kind of help be the forward-facing proponents for veterinary medicine in the state. So done it for a while and spent now, unfortunately or fortunately, a lot of time testifying in front of the state legislature and different groups

about different subjects. I don't have a good feel for this, but how often are you pulled in to do that role? It depends a little bit on what's going on that year. I would say on average, depending on the different bills that are in front of the legislature, I probably would go down to testify three or four times each year. Legislators are very interested in doing animal policy because they think it's a good forward-facing thing for their constituents.

And so they're very eager to do animal-related bills, and frequently that bleeds over into veterinary medicine. And so it's not something that's going to go away, at least in Colorado, three to four times a year has been average. That's great. And that's a great segue to what we wanted to talk about a little bit today, because I think both Jessica and I would confess wholeheartedly that this is one of the podcasts that we,

have no freaking clue about whatsoever. And I think a lot of people feel that way.

I know there's a lot of complaints about AVMA and AEP dues and where do they go and what happens. And so to quote from everybody's favorite musical, you're in the room where it happens and you get to see how the sausage gets made. And so when you talk about the Colorado VMA, How exactly are they advocating for veterinarians in that arena?

How is that money getting spent? What's happening? I know you mentioned compounding medication, but can you broaden your answer a little bit and show a little bit of the value there? Sure. Similar to you, when I started in this space, I didn't even know what advocacy meant. I mean, I know what the word advocate means, but what it meant to veterinary medicine, no idea. But it really is as broad as doing whatever it takes to advocate for our profession.

And that can be in a number of different subject areas. We'll talk about some of them today. And it can be in a number of different arenas. And so at the state level, frequently that advocacy takes place at the state legislative level. So in front of the state House and the state Senate, as different bills come up related to animals and veterinary medicine, some are a good idea proposed by us and some are a not so good idea.

And we need to educate legislators about why that's maybe not a great idea. Sometimes that takes place at the city council level. So a few years ago, the city of Denver was considering a ban on cat declaws. So I never thought as a decline practitioner I'd have to talk about cat declaws, but unfortunately did. Not one of my favorite things to do. So it can be at the city level. It can be at the state level.

We spend a fair bit of time interacting with the State Board of Veterinary Medicine as well, because at least the way it's set up in Colorado, the State Board is the group that formulates rules. So the legislature creates statute or law, and then the State Board creates rules to kind of clarify statute. And so, again, we'll talk about it maybe a little bit more, but currently the state board is considering rules about how to integrate the mid-level practitioner into the veterinary ecosystem.

And so we're interacting with the state board about that. So a bunch of different avenues and a bunch of different topic areas. When I was interacting with equine practitioners that I would frequently hear, I don't need to do my state VMA and, you know, pay those dues because it's, you know, I'm an equine practitioner and I have AAP. I agree, right? I love AAP.

And so much of how we practice on a daily basis has to do with the decisions that are made at the state level, at the legislature and through the state board, that really the biggest impact on what it means to practice as a veterinarian happens at the state level.

So, so excited that Ashley is a part of AAP to continue that effort. And a lot happens at the state level, which I'm sure she can tell some stories from her time at AVMA because that's all she did. But really all working together, I think, is really important for the veterinary ecosystem. Do you find that the state board is a more adversarial position or that it is supportive?

I think, unfortunately, in private practice, we see them as a looming, ominous figure that never helps us and is only there to hurt us. But my actual experience with that is nil. So what do you think about that? Have you had a good experience, bad experience, some of both? I would say some of both. It's interesting, and I think it probably varies a fair bit state to state, and so I can just speak to Colorado.

At least in Colorado, the state board is made up of practicing veterinarians, just like us, who want to do the best thing and try their hardest to do a good job based on the job that they're given. There are also a couple of members of the public and in Colorado, two veterinary technicians. A lot of my personal frustration with the state board has to do with sort of the bureaucracy behind it.

It doesn't function very well or very efficiently. That's not so much because of the members on the board. I think the veterinarians on the board are trying to do the right thing. But the structure in place doesn't allow for very thoughtful or nuanced policy sometimes. Again, my opinion, that's frustrating. There is an opportunity for public comment, and that's a good thing.

And like I said, the individual members are just like us. But I think the structure leaves something to be desired sometimes. Yeah, thanks for that, Will. Well, Ashley, let's switch back to you. And do you want to fill us in on a few more details about your specific role at AAP? What does your day-to-day workday look like? Are you the one we call about the lay dental practitioners? Good question. Good question. And also, maybe you could lead into how AAAP is

currently advocating for its members. So that's a big, broad question. Start wherever you'd like. I'll try to hit all of that.

I think right now my day-to-day is having a lot of conversations with a lot of different people, learning about the different committees and activities that are going on already at AEP, really digging in on the policy positions, information that's available on the website, and then also looking at creating a really more structured advocacy network, like I mentioned, with the AEP members who are interested in being advocates or strong chiefs. Champions there in the states.

Like Will said, a lot of the provisions and policies that impact practitioners happen at the state level. And so having veterinarians willing to speak up and overcome the bit of fear, like Will said, of speaking to legislators, that's either whether that's making a phone call or sending an email or testifying, posting a, you know, a policymaker at your clinic or going on a farm ride.

They, of course, love going out into the field and seeing what veterinarians do, but developing those relationships. And so it is a lot of talking with the state VMA executives and saying, okay, who are you working with in the states that are equine practitioners and trying to identify some folks? So we'll be really digging in on that activity. I think ways that AEP has historically and how we plan going forward to engage.

Have really been working very closely, not only with the AVMA at the federal level, but again, at the state level with the VMAs, really identifying, okay, there's this issue in Colorado, how can the AEP help? And is that, of course, we've got Will there to do a lot of the work and speaking also on behalf of the equine practitioners, but can we write a letter?

Can we do some outreach? Can we send the alert, you know, an action alert to AEP members in the state of Colorado or the districts that are needed? Can we identify veterinarians maybe in a state that doesn't have will either that are willing to go and testify? We had some things come up in Tennessee on chiropractors. And OK, AEP sent a letter.

We sent an alert to Tennessee members and Tennessee AEP members asking them to contact their legislators and really weigh in on on that issue of chiropractors being allowed to work on horses. And so I think some of those things have always been happening. We're just trying to really expand on that and strengthen the efforts. That's awesome. So you're busy. And when did you start at AEP? March 24th. Okay. So it's probably been a whirlwind since then. Almost a month. Right. So yes.

But I am so glad you're on this team now. So we'll go back to Will here and we will talk about a very specific challenge that is happening in a state that does have Will, which is Colorado and the challenge of the mid-level practitioner that recently got approved there. Can you fill in a little background about that for the people that don't know what we're talking about, and then talk about more specifically how you were involved in working with, for, against, around that challenge.

It's something that sort of consumed the advocacy space in Colorado for the past few years, certainly, and especially over the past month. It's a little bit of a longer story just in how this came about, but I think it's instructive because it really points to the importance of relationships and the importance of being involved in the process at multiple steps along the way.

So the idea of a mid-level practitioner in veterinary medicine has sort of been circulating for the past 10 to 15 years or so in varying forms. The thought is that in the human space, there are physician's assistants or PAs or nurse practitioners that sort of function in that mid-level space. So not a, quote, full doctor, but perhaps could do more than a nurse. I think some well-meaning people thought, oh, that could be interesting in the veterinary space as well.

There were some proponents of this idea, particularly at Colorado State University, and a few different times over the past 10 to 15 years. They came to the CVMA and said, we have this idea, would you be interested in partnering with us? And CVMA looked at the idea and said, we're not sure that the details are really fleshed out to the point that they need to be. So, no, we don't think this is a good idea at this time. More recently, there was an effort when our practice act came up for renewal.

Some proponents of this idea attempted to get language creating this veterinary professional associate or VPA into our practice act. And again, the CDMA said, there's just not enough details around this yet. We don't feel like it's the time to put it in there. We are fortunate in Colorado in that we have a veterinarian who is a state legislator. She's a state representative. And through that process, she said, okay, I would like to know more about this idea of a VPA.

Let's have some task force meetings about this. And so we met about 20 different times to look at this idea of a VPA. And so proponents from CSU came and talked about their proposed curriculum. People from AVMA came to talk about accreditation. I mean, we looked at this issue from all sorts of different angles. The proponents say that there's a real need for access to veterinary care in certain areas and they feel like this position will be a way to increase access to care.

That's kind of their big argument. People who have concerns with the program would say that. Okay, there are certainly access to care challenges in certain veterinary spaces, but this person needs to work within a standardized framework. We need to understand what they will learn, how they will learn it, what will they be able to do. So that was where a bunch of the concerns were centered. So the proponents tried to run a bill through the legislature in Colorado twice.

They had language and they said, we're going to create this position. And through lots of earnest conversations with legislators, the legislators ultimately decided, no, this idea is not ready. It's not fully fleshed out yet. And so the The proponents, again, said, we don't like that answer, so we're going to continue to fight for what we believe in. In Colorado, I think, unfortunately, it's relatively easy to get things on the ballot. And so the proponents of the mid-level spent...

About $800,000 to gather signatures to put the VPA idea on the ballot. So that was something that we voted on as a state last fall. The primary funders for this were a few animal welfare organizations in the state. So the largest shelter in the state, the Denver Dumb Friends League, as well as the ASPCA. Between the money spent for gathering signatures on the ballot and money spent in advertising, both groups spent in combination well over a million dollars to get this on the ballot and through.

That's, you know, one of my big takeaways from this is that there are organizations that are intensely interested in changing the face of veterinary medicine. And they may come with some good ideas sometimes, and they may come with some ideas that are not ready for prime time.

And so that's, you know, I think a main reason to really be involved is because these people are willing to spend money to advocate for what they believe in. And that may or may not be a good thing. And so, you know, we were really fortunate in Colorado to have a strong partnership with AVMA on this. And AVMA was willing to put in a significant amount of financial investment to attempt to fight this. And so I'm eternally grateful for their effort in this.

They put forward a lot of money beyond what the state organization can do. Again, to try to educate the public about why this idea might not be a good idea. One of the big sticking points is that the proposed curriculum at CSU would allow these mid-level practitioners to perform surgery. Certainly not something that happens in the human space. And so we wanted to ensure that the public was well-educated, that this is what this ballot proposal means and what these people are advocating for.

It was pretty interesting when we started the process, the ballot initiative, the initial polling that was done, it passed with very wide support. At least according to our initial polls. And through a concerted public outreach campaign, the final vote was 52 to 47 in favor of the proposition. So it passed ultimately, but we were able to get our message out,

not ultimately enough, but it did pass, not by a lot. This ballot initiative that creates this mid-level practitioner has passed in Colorado. And so now our efforts are focusing on creating a framework that makes sense about how these people can function, what they can do, what kind of supervision they need, and what exactly they are learning in these programs. Both veterinarians and veterinary technicians have to take a national board

exam and their education has to be accredited. seems reasonable to hold these mid-level practitioners to similar standards. So that's kind of a big overview of what we've dealt with on this issue in the past and what we're dealing with in the future. And there's certainly a lot more details, but that kind of gives a picture of where we're at. Yeah, it sounds like. Certainly more changes on the horizon. They're going to take some time, but this is going to happen.

And I assume that if it's going to happen there, it's going to happen everywhere. It's interesting to me that you say that the welfare organizations were really behind it because certainly the conspiracy theory has been that the corporate practices are the ones pushing this. So that's interesting, though. I wonder where the donations to the welfare company came from. Right. It's not a conspiracy theory. They tried to hide some of the corporate influence behind it, but it's certainly there.

I mean, a public piece of information is that PetSmart Charities, so charities, quote, but PetSmart being Banfield and Mars, gave a grant of $300,000 to CSU to develop the curriculum to begin with. Right. So that's just one thing. There were corporations that donated for the proponents campaign for the proposition. Not a huge dollar amount, but they were certainly there.

And a number of leaders within some of the particularly small animal corporate space have been vocal about their support for this position and how they see it as a cost saving measure. So I think you're right to be a little bit cynical and look at where some of this effort is coming from, too. Yeah, I'm not a little bit cynical, ever. I'm trying to be polite, perhaps. What's going on in other states at the moment with this issue?

There are definitely a lot of eyes on Colorado and a lot of concern by the state BMAs, ABMA, AEP, ABP, all of the groups that have concerns about this issue. We have seen legislation reintroduced in Florida.

The House version that would create the veterinary professional associate there did pass the House, but so far we're hearing that there are no plans at this moment, I guess, to move it in the Senate. So perhaps that has stalled for another session, But we'll continue to work with the Florida VMA in opposing that. Those are the two pieces of legislation with Colorado having legislation as they continue to try to implement the ballot initiative that was passed.

But we've seen activity in other states, not necessarily around creating a VPA, but there was legislation in Arkansas that was passed that would allow veterinary technician specialists really expanding their scope of practice beyond just what we normally think of as technicians and veterinarian roles and responsibilities. There have been bills in other states, California, that would allow technicians to do certain surgeries, whether it's usually related to, at this point,

neutering cats. There is, as Will said, an interest by policymakers in pursuing some of these things. And whether it's under the guise of access to care and animal welfare really trying to meet some of these needs, underserved areas, all of the talking points that you would expect. But it does make it hard as we oppose these efforts because it just sounds so

good to the public, to policymakers. Why wouldn't we want to expand access to care and make sure all animals are cared for and receive the care that they need? But you want the people providing that care to be qualified and trained.

We do know that the state VMAs, as they're watching this, some of them, whether they have veterinary schools in their states that might have an interest in programs like that, or they've got some of the shelter organizations, animal welfare organizations, maybe see an opportunity in some of these states. The state VMAs are being very active in developing position statements.

They're meeting with their legislators, all the things like Will said that the VMAs are doing at the state level, having those conversations, working as closely as they can with the licensing boards, really to try to explain their concerns and make sure everyone is educated preemptively.

You really want to be as proactive as you can. The access to care thing, just one quick note on that is, it's a really, I think, important point, and one that will be a conversation piece for the veterinary industry, I think, for a long time coming. Because there certainly are gaps in access to veterinary care in the United States, right? No one can deny that, whether that's rural areas or some very urban areas, there are challenges to access to veterinary care.

And that doesn't mean that necessarily that those areas should have lower quality care, right? You know, a lack of, quote, access doesn't mean that those animals deserve any less. And so I think it's an important but nuanced point that we can make. And also, you know, I think something that we as practitioners should try to understand of what actually is the need within communities for veterinary care and to be able to talk intelligently about that.

It's a really compelling argument that these organizations make, and it's an important thing. Access to veterinary care is certainly important. But in particular related to the VPA, there's nothing to say that these VPAs will automatically go to work in these underserved areas. Where are they going to work? They're probably going to work in small animal corporate practice in suburban environments where they can be paid a little bit more.

So there are challenges around this issue. And I don't think that we as a profession have done a very good job of talking about it because it's difficult. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, but it's coming in many different areas. Yeah, in our area, the northern part of our practice area is the beginning of central of Pennsylvania, Appalachia. And I can tell you right now, without insulting anyone, that there are no horse vets up there, because there just aren't any.

And I think everybody up there would love to have horse vets up there, everybody that owns horses. And those people should, in some way, shape, or form, have an outlet and a route to care. But it's not going to be somebody living up there and having a practice up there, because economically, it doesn't work at all. So we built a hall and facility.

We try to have people trailer down from that area to see us, but we get calls all the time that when I'm on the weekend and it's somebody an hour and a half north of us to an area we don't go to and they have a colic and I say, bring it down. And they say, well, we don't have the resources to do that either. And it's not, as you say, like we're going to magically create this position and somebody's going to go live up there.

They're not going to do it either. And I feel like that's very short-sighted and it's probably very evident to everybody that's listening to this podcast, but it's probably not evident to the average voting person in these states. But we've done a good job of saying there's a veterinary shortage as a profession, and then not a very good job of, okay, well, what does that mean and what do we do about it? So complicated. It's for a whole other episode, I think.

I would love to hear from both of you how the average member like myself of our state VMA or AAEP can help. Specifically, what actions can we take? I think, honestly, getting involved in advocacy is much easier than you or really anyone might think. It can be incredibly daunting. I even get nervous when I want to respond to something unrelated to veterinary medicine.

I see something happening, whether it's in my county or the state, and I want to make a call or weigh in, but I get so nervous and hung up on it. But it is actually really much easier than you think to be involved. There are organizations like AEP and your state BMA. AVMA that are really there to support veterinarians. In being active, you've got the training, resources, talking points, all the things are really spelled out. They try to make it very easy for members, practitioners to weigh in.

And it can start with something as simple as responding to a call for action, sending an email or making a phone call. And really with those action alerts, it is all spelled out. We just generally ask that you personalize it so that the office is not getting inundated with form letters or form messages, right? You want it to be personalized, and that's what they want to hear.

Of course, if you have a little more time or interest, you can go further and meet with the legislator, as I mentioned earlier. You can attend an advocacy day, whether that's the state VMA's advocacy day, ABMA has federal advocacy days. There's opportunities to testify at hearings. Like Will said, maybe it's not always on an equine-related issue, but you are still a veterinarian and can speak to veterinary issues. But every level of involvement helps.

And you really don't have to be an expert to have an impact, right? You're an expert in veterinary medicine. Your perspective counts. You're a voting constituent, which is huge. A lot of times the legislator is going to respond in some way, even if they don't totally agree with you, you are still a voting constituent. And so your real world experience really brings that credibility and context to the issues. And that's what decision makers need to hear.

And honestly, me at AEP, as staff, I can only weigh in so much on the Colorado issue. I live in Maryland. They only want to hear so much from me, but they want to hear from the people that are going to be impacted by those laws and regulations. And so you start, I would say, by reaching out. If you're not already raising your hand, reach out to me at AEP or to your state VMA. And also, I'm happy to help connect you with those folks, too. But all of us welcome the support, and it's pretty easy.

Yeah, I would echo all that you said, Ashley. It really is as simple as reading an email and perhaps sending an email in response to that. And I know we're all busy. I am as guilty as everyone, right, of just ignoring. But the state veterinary organizations and AEP really do put a lot of effort into crafting those call to actions or crafting those emails to update you about what's going on. And so if there's a, hey, please reach out, just do it.

There are a lot of voices in this profession and we are that much more powerful if the people involved actually hear those voices. So read your email, reach out if there's a call to action. And like what Ashley said, it really is as simple as shooting an email to people either at AAP or your state organization. I can almost guarantee that every state executive, state VMA executive would love to hear from someone who said, hey, I'm interested in advocacy. How can I get involved?

Particularly from an equine practitioner. And there are probably different avenues for that in each state, maybe more or less formal, but I can guarantee that the state VMAs want people involved. Just one more thing at the AAP level attend a welfare and public policy committee meeting at convention. Those committee meetings are open to members to come listen. Just, you know, continue to educate yourself about what's going on.

One other thing that ties back to your earlier question about the licensing boards, it's a little bit more of an effort, but many of the state licensing boards are often looking for people to serve on the licensing board. Now, maybe that's a little farther afield than you're thinking, Jessica, like the average member, how you might be able to be involved. But, you know, of course, their mission is to protect the public. So a little bit of a different slant. Their state agency, often underfunded.

It's hard, very hard work, anybody you talk to that's served in those roles. But like Will said, you need practicing veterinarians to serve there as well. So there's another opportunity for you to get involved. I appreciate every veterinarian that's involved in the state licensing board or anything we've talked about today. So kudos to them. So what I'm hearing is we need to pay attention. We need to open those emails, reach out and raise our hand.

And I thank you, Will, for mentioning the Welfare and Public Policy Committee meeting. I'm going to go to that next year. Yeah. And when we talk about a call to action, we're going to wrap it up here by just asking you guys both, what one or two issues do you see on the horizon? I mean, we've talked about the mid-level practitioner and that's probably the elephant in the room, but one or two other issues from both of you that you feel like are going to...

Rear up and show their heads this year, next year, are going to be, you know, an anchor on the profession going forward. What's coming for us? I mean, like you said, certainly the mid-level is going to be there in different states, and it will continue to be a conversation about what their role actually is, especially as it relates to equine. I think that the late teeth floaters, the dentistry and equine practice is a big deal. South Dakota this year, I know, went through a big fight about that.

That will continue to be a conversation. I mean, for equine practice, those are probably some of the big ones for sure. I think I would just add on, we're still seeing at the state level, while it's also happening at the federal level, but access to essential medications, xylazine, maintaining access to that is a top priority, ensuring that we have responsible use while addressing the concerns around diversion. Similar to the mid-level practitioner issue, while it's not equine-specific.

Trying to ensure that we protect the veterinary and client-patient relationship, a number of states are facing bills or attempts to undermine the VCPR by allowing it to be established solely virtually without ever seeing, you know, laying hands on the animal or meeting the client or visiting the premise. And so, you know, of course, we think the VCPR is foundational to quality veterinary care and patient safety.

So we're continuing to see that crop up in the states. So I'd say those are a few other. That's a good one. I mean, telemedicine is certainly a tool that is going to be coming in the future, if not here already, at least from this old dude, like it cannot be all telemedicine. I cannot just even begin to tell you the number of times I get a picture that is blurry from 45 feet away asking me what's wrong, or I am told by the client on the phone ahead of time what they perceive to be wrong.

And then I get out there and I'm like, that is not what's happening at all. Like even remotely, I think we do need to put some big limits on that. And I appreciate your efforts on our behalf, both of you. Yeah. And thank you so much for sharing everything you've shared and everything you've done up to this point and what you will do in the future to advocate for all of us.

My biggest takeaway is how I can personally be involved and helpful for our profession. So, Travis, what do you think? Let's do it, man. Get out there. Advocate. Seriously, I started with very little knowledge and I feel like I still have very little knowledge. But if everybody sees it through the prism of helping and doing a little bit extra doing their part, I think we have seen, parts of our practice disappear, which is where we sort of go to the lay floater issue and the chiropractic.

And I think with the mid-level practitioner, we're going to see more of it disappear. And every little bit that's taken away from us leaves the parts behind that often are the hardest parts, emergency call, surgeries, stuff that not everybody super enjoys and wants to do all the time. And if all the low-hanging fruit is taken away, what is an awesome and fun profession becomes a lot less awesome and fun. We need to do our part to make sure that that doesn't happen.

Thank you both for being here and helping our profession stay awesome. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. For more resources to help you in daily practice, please visit the AAP's website at aaep.org. Berringer Ingelheim believes that by supporting today's veterinary students, we can help enable future industry advancements.

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