Welcome to a Yarn Story podcast. I'm Carmen and this is my co-host Lisa. I'm back for part two with Lisa of This Is Knit here in Dublin. Thanks for coming here, by the way. Anytime. I'm excited for Guinness later. 100%. Me too. So if you missed episode or part one of the episode, we talked all about her crafting history. History. Yeah. It sounds like a criminal record. Crafting journey. My crafting journey. In part one. And now we're going to talk more about the
business of yarn. Down to the serious stuff now. Yeah. Kind of my favorite part. I know it is. I'm excited for this because I'm like, what is she going to ask? All right. So for those who haven't watched part one and aren't going to go back because they're just here for the business. All right. Would you like to introduce yourself again and specifically all of the things in your business? Ooh. Okay. So my name is Lisa and I am co-owner of This Is Knit in the Paris Court Center in Dublin,
Ireland. Myself and my mom have had our yarn shop business for 18 years, which is a bit crazy to say. So it's been, it's been a journey from very small beginnings. I also do a lot of knitting teaching, more virtually really, in the form of Instagram tutorials, things like our follow-alongs where we do deep dives into different techniques, like just making your first sweater, doing your first color work. I do a lot of mini tutorials on Instagram on the This Is Knit account.
And I also teach with knitting tours. So if you're interested in coming for a retreat to Ireland with a very, not even with a very strong knitting team, with a knitting team, then you can check them out. And also Townhouse Yarns is part of what I do. My sister Jenny, so very much a family business. So, but we call this our sister, sister brand. So Townhouse Yarns has a beautiful range of hand-dyed yarns. My sister is absolutely the creative drive behind
us and I'm the Excel sheets. Everybody needs the Excel sheets. Yes, we do. We do for sure. So it's a nicely symbiotic relationship. Amazing. Maybe I'll start with how is it running a family business? Also, yeah, that's an interesting one. It does, it can have its challenges, but I do get asked this a lot and generally not as bad as people would think. There's a lot of benefits to it. I mean, we're at a fundamental level, myself, my mom, my sister, we all get along really well.
That does help. We're a close family. I have another sister who's not involved in the yarn industry. Hi other sister. So we should give a big wave out to her. We did try and kind of get her into the fold, but she actually went the other way. She works in legal now. So that's part of the backstory. And a brother lives in San Francisco and has absolutely no interest in this. But no, we, look, you can be more brutally honest sometimes with your family and that can be a good
thing. And it can also be a bad thing, but we're still talking to each other 18 years later. I have each other's backs. I think that's a real key thing. So like when I was trying to have my babies and when I have my babies, mom stood in in such a huge way for, and really carried a lot of the load at that time, which I'm very appreciative of. And that means we're still here. And definitely, there's days like here with Jenny where she needs a little bit more help and we all
amazing. All right. So let's go back to the beginnings of this, isn't it? So you started in a market stall? We did. Yes. And it was very much a case of, let's just see. So total bootstrapping, total bootstrapping. My friend from college helped us set up a website, his friends, our original logo. And mom did a start your own business course with them. They have the local
enterprise offices here in Ireland and they're fantastic. So at the time I was living on the other side of the country and we were trying around this idea of, you know, maybe we should open up our own yarn store, but, you know, let's do our literal market research. Let's go and open a market stall. So we did. We did. There's a town in the south of Dublin called Black Rock, lovely seaside and suburb of Dublin. It's very cool. It is. It's a funky place. There's a lot
of very cool businesses that started from Black Rock Market. And it has, it's covered, it has indoor spaces. So, you know, we want to protect the yarn. A lot of markets are outside. So we live an hour on the other side of Dublin, but we were driving down there, 5am starts, 6am starts, hauling the yarn. Did you have to get set up? We did. You theoretically could have left your stuff there overnight because it was a Saturday and Sunday market. But we didn't feel happy doing
that. We had like the open space and because it was a stall in like a big hall essentially. And yeah, so we were mad enough. We took it. So it's precious yarn. Why would we leave it there? It's precious. That is a lot of work. It was. It really was. There was a lot of very early starts and a lot of very cold days, but thankfully we had network.
So what did you learn running a market stall like that first? I mean, what was, I suppose, an amazing thing because, I mean, we sort of dove in and sort of maybe there's other people out there like us who also like this yarn. And what was amazing was finding those people and the level of support that you would get from them. We literally had direct conversations about, okay, well, we started with brand A and brand B. What other brands would
you like to see? And people were really generous with their time and their recommendations and feedback. So you were building relationships from the very start and yeah, just learning on the job because mom and I both have like strong backgrounds in customer service and customer service roles, but had zero experience of retail. Like I've never worked in a clothes shop. There's nothing, you know, we've been in service industry jobs in restaurants, bars, airlines.
And so still to this day, customer service is a massive, massive like rock, like anchor, I suppose, to what we do. I'm just going to say that there is no one doing customer service better than Lisa and her team. And my team, the team, they are absolutely like the gold standard by which all retail should measure themselves, quite frankly. Oh, that's, that's, that's high praise. Thank you. It's true though. But yeah, it's, it's really fundamental. We want to take care of people,
you know. And so that's, yeah, that's what we do with the retail side. A lot of learning on the job on that. Yes. Do you remember what brands you stock? I do. Yeah. We started with Debbie Bliss and we got in Noro. And then I think shortly after that, we might've done, I don't think we did Louisa Harding at the start. And then Rowan was really
highly requested. So that was the next. But it was tricky at the start because, you know, you literally, again, we had no background of this and you're approaching brands and they were going, but who are you and what are you doing? And like, this isn't, you know, even, even just finding out that like, what are your prices somehow? What are the minimums? Like I found, like, I struggled with it because I, you know, never gone through that process of
approaching brands before. So, um, but we did. Order minimums are bigger than you might think. Yes. Yes, they are. Absolutely. So, um, so we look, we invested like a little bit of money in at the start and then what we did, cause I was working part-time still. My mom, Jackie was working part-time and we reinvested everything that we made for the first, I don't know, year, year, two years, maybe we paid ourselves like a little stipend in a year or two. Um, but every
single sale, everything went back in to expanding the range, um, expanding where we work. So we started with a stall in a shared space and there were these cabins that you could take. So we moved there in the market. Um, and then as the demand grew, we, uh, there's two more permanent units. It was the old guard, guard station, police station. Um, and so there was a room on either side of that. Um, and then we took, uh, one of those rooms and started opening five days a week.
Wow. Yeah. So how long were you in Blackrock? Uh, so June, 2006 until actually a full two years, but with the caveat that in, uh, after a year and a half, we opened a small shop in Dublin city center. Okay. And then two locations. Yes. We ran the two locations side-by-side for six months with myself, Jackie and Aileen. The three of us like cycling between the two. Um,
but I was quite keen. I think you probably experienced this where, um, a shop that you love, you know, suddenly you rock up one day and it's closed up and it's, you know, there's a new tenant. Nobody knows what's going on. Um, and you, you just think they're close, they're gone. So, um, I mean, six months was maybe a little excessive, but we, we ran that so we could get people used to the concept of, well, we're in Dublin. And then the shop in Dublin was too small to,
to have all of the operations. We wanted to do classes and, and all of that. So, uh, when we had the chance to take the neighboring unit in the Dublin city center location, that's when we closed up Blackrock and moved wholesale, moved into. Is that where you are now? No, it's not. So in, it was September 2008 when we moved into the tiny unit in the Paris court center. So it's the same building. Um, and then it was the
following June that we took over the neighboring unit as well. But you've been in Paris court since 2008. Yes. Okay. So for those of you who haven't been to Dublin, um, come visit Dublin one and two powers court center is in like the dead center of Dublin. It's right off of Grafton street, which is a super famous street, big shopping there, big retailers, like high end. This is not where you usually find a yarn shop. Yeah. I, I clearly, again, not knowing anything
about retail when, um, but I think the Paris court center it's a little bit different. I mean, it's, it's amazing location. Um, but all are, I think it's still true. I think at the time we moved in all of our two of the units in there were, um, occupied by independent owner operated businesses. So it always has had that culture of supporting independent retail. Amazing. Please more places do that. Um, it just brings character and life and variety to, to city center locations,
which is really dying out and it's really unfortunate. Um, but I think, yeah, I think it's, it's pretty much the same. It's a really strong, um, uh, supporter of Irish businesses and local operators. So, um, but a gorgeous, gorgeous building. It is absolutely stunning. Um, so for those of you who don't know either, I used to live in Ireland and my, like the whole yarn story journey, if you haven't read about it actually starts at this, isn't it?
Because I was bored. And my mom came to, well, no, cause my mom came to visit. She's like, I'd like some Irish yarn. And I was like, okay. Um, so I was Googling and I took her to some something in the middle of nowhere that just had acrylic. Yeah. And then it turned out there was something in the town center. And so we drove in and there were, remember like following Google maps and being like, I go in this building all the time. Like, how have I not noticed?
Yeah. Like I used to go to the cafe in the center and I used to shop at All Saints. That was like, Oh yeah, they're still there. Yeah. Um, quite a lot. And I had just never noticed you guys before. I haven't been there all that long and I wasn't knitting at the time. Yeah. So, well, what we've been able to do, I suppose, is take, cause it's, um, it's a convergent Georgian building, right? So, um, and, and there's a whole courtyard thing in the middle
and like, it's not your traditional shopping center. So you're not going to see the standardized shop window next, next, next, you know, as you would in out of town shopping centers. Um, so there are some certain units that are quite tucked away a little bit like, you know, off the beaten track, um, and maybe not immediately obvious. And then there's restrictions on what we can do in terms of signage and kind of the presence in it. Um, but I will take all of that for the lovely building.
Um, and what we've been able to do, I think, because knitting is something that people, when you're keen on it, you will seek out the yarn shops and become a destination shop. So, um, yeah, people, people who are motivated find us. Well, and my mom was motivated and so I found you. Um, and she picked out a project with some lovely Irish yarn and I still distinctly remember you had a scarf, um, in like a beigey color on the side and I, I kept picking it up and I was like,
I could do that. I don't want to turn into a cow. I want to do something chunkier. Like I was already like thinking like a knitter. Yeah. Well, cause I mean, you know, I had this, I had this very crafty childhood, so it wasn't out of the realm of possibility for me that I can, I can make something a little slightly different. Um, and I'd bought, uh, I think it was Debbie Bliss Arend. Yeah. Something. Yeah. And I made that cowl. Good woman. And then the rest is history. Basically,
it's always his fault. In part one, you talked about how you got back into knitting when you were in New Zealand and you talked about how you found a little yarn shop and you walked past the window like three times because you were kind of intimidated. Yeah. And then you finally went in. Um, and I think that story must be like your origin story because there is no one like more welcoming and more sort of like you come in and do this and like less intimidating a space. Like
I found that when I was first starting, you guys were always just so welcoming and helpful. Um, so tell me a little bit about that philosophy. And I think, I mean, we just fundamentally want to help people. It's, it's, it's, it's in our, our DNA, I think as a, and I kind of say, even just the words to say as a company feels like doesn't roll off my tongue. I think like as a team, you know, as a, as a hub in a crafting community, um, that's so strong in,
it's just what we do, you know? And if that person is somebody who's coming in and is really uncertain and not sure, like I was when I first went in, you know, we sort of want to take you under our wing and, you know, mind you. And, and, but also because we're so clearly obsessed, obsessed is the right word for me too. You know, we love company in that zone. We want to welcome more people into that. It, knitting just, it gives you so much, I feel, you know, and yeah,
okay. A hundred percent, it's not for everybody, but, but if it is your thing, oh my gosh, is it your thing? You know? And it's, there's, there is that, like those connections that you make, um, people come into the shop, um, like off flights, you know, they've come in from the States and there'll be another person there with, you know, local from Ireland and they are chatting and they are getting on like a house on fire, you know, within two minutes, it's like, oh my
gosh, what yarn is that? And then they just break down. Definitely there's like best knitting buddies. A hundred percent. I love when that happens. And actually similar to your story of where you were in Dublin and didn't know a lot of people and then you came and you found us and then you got introduced to other people. And there are so many of our customers that like can tell a similar story of where coming into it, like a new city, you know, just finding their people.
Absolutely. True. And it's a shop. It is a shop. But it's, but it's so much more. It is absolutely so much more. Uh, it's what they call a third space. A third space. Yes. I feel like I've heard that, but I don't, I don't know. Yeah. It's, um, basically you have like your home and your work and then there's third space. I don't know if I'm defining this correctly, but there's, um, third spaces in the community that are absolutely important and like sort of anchoring points for
people to gather and connect and find community. And yarn shops are absolutely one of those third spaces. Yeah. Um, I just like, I mean, I would think they're extremely important, but they are. They are very important. Yeah. Um, okay. You were uncomfortable calling yourselves a company. Yeah. Yeah. You are a company. We are. They are. You are clearly a successful company. We were doing okay. You are in business 18 years later. Um, you did a rebrand and a big refit to
the shop last year. Two years ago. Two years ago now. Yeah. Time flies. It really does. And we are currently sitting in your new warehouse office dye studio. Yes. Business unit, I suppose. Call it that. Yes. Cause it does. It has many hats. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's a lot. It is a lot. Yeah. Um, I, I don't know how to have it. No, there's, I've always been, I think we talked in part one as well. Like I just want to be doing stuff. Um, I like,
I like to keep busy. I also need to moderate that sometimes my own health and wellbeing as well. But um, yeah, I, I, I don't like to sit still. I want to kind of move on and see what we can do next. Um, certainly I think what happened, uh, in terms of the refit, um, I mean, there were the COVID years. Um, we did obviously have to trade online during that time. Um, and being our only option.
Um, and I felt like we evolved so much in the online space over those years, but then the shop itself sort of lagged behind in, um, I don't know that like that, the image that we were putting out. Um, and so I really, it was like dug into this. No, I want to,
I want to do a refit, you know, and that's, that is not a cheap thing to do. Um, but we had, I mean, talking about the origin story of coming up through the market and everything, we had always bootstrapped, always tried to make sure, you know, like the money was coming, like minimal, minimal business loans. Um, I think we took one when we moved into the power support center,
when we took the larger unit, but like very, very lean. Yeah. Okay. Um, and reusing units. I mean, there is actually still a yarn unit, two of them from our very early days upstairs for like in, in the packing room now, like, you know, it's storing envelopes and different things like that. So, I mean, there's, there's a, I don't like to be wasteful, you know, environmentally conscious,
all of that. Um, but yeah, so taking that leap to do the shop refit, um, was a lot. And certainly like when I started getting the quotes, there was a day when I got a quote, um, and I went, oh, well that's that then, no, never going to happen. Um, and I went and I threw myself in the sea, um, in a, in a good way, um, reset way. Uh, but then, but then I sat with it for a while
and went, okay, well, this is what things cost. And yeah, trying to have that level of confidence in what we've built up already to kind of go, yeah, I think, you know, I think we can make this work. Yeah. You know, not being afraid, looking at the fact that we've come through COVID and we still had a business. Yes. You know, we still have a very thankfully loyal following, um, and contacts in our industry. There's all of these, like I was like listing like all of the reasons
why, you know, we should be confident about, about doing this. Um, which I struggle with, you know, that sort of self-belief. Um, and so we, we went for it. Um, and it's really, really worked out and I'm very pleased with how it all turned out and so delighted with, cause there was, there was an option, you know, this sort of really long quotes and there was an option. All of this money, and then we can project manage it for like this extra bit
of money. Yeah. Or do you want to project manage it? I was like, do you know what? I mean, for a penny. So I'd be paying you that much. Um, and it was, but it was realizing and maturing, I think, as a business owner and knowing like, where are my strengths? Where should I be focusing my energy on? Um, and that, that ain't in chasing carpenters, right? So yeah. So we went with, um, with
Restless Design and lovely people. So, so good. Um, and really great to work with. And then they worked with Pride Craft Construction, um, just to give them a shout out if anybody's looking, cause you know, like when, when you find people, we were talking about leaving reviews. Yes. Um, and we got, we moved out and the center very kindly gave us our old unit back to put the rest of it in. Well, that's the, that's the hard part about a renovation too, is you're like,
we're going to have to put this stuff back. Yeah. Um, but that was the Saturday we finished up on the Saturday. Um, and 10 days later, they gave it back to us. Um, that's fast. Really fast. Yeah. And it was like, everything was repainted, refloored, refit everything. Um, and then it took another three or three or so days to kind of get back up and running. Yeah. Um, but the cost, I think of paying them to project managers, like obviously the longer you're closed,
you're actively losing money basically. Um, and, uh, to get back to the turnaround was fantastic. So after being terrified of it, I'm very glad we did it. What are some big challenges you've
had over 18 years? Do some things stand out? I do have a lot of terrifying moments. I remember one of the early, we did a lot of knitting and stitching shows, uh, when, back when they were coming to Dublin and I'm like, I remember going into that weekend kind of thinking, if we don't make a certain, like, I don't, I don't know, do we make it through Christmas?
You know, we don't take in a certain amount of that. So there was definitely been those moments of, yeah, we've, we've flown a little too close to the sun here, or, you know, like, it's just a little too tight cashflow wise. That's always going to be, you know, a challenge for any small business. Do you find that that still happens? Uh, I have, yes. I mean, I'll admit that happens to us. Yeah. Sometimes I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. This day,
you kind of come in and go, okay. But it's a lot of the time it's, you know, there's just a little bit of, some of the planning has gone a little bit of stray of like where the expenditure has to come out before, you know, you can cover that. Um, so it does, but I've become, and I'm going to go way back, uh, to, uh, in school, I was very academic and like loved most things, not Irish, but yeah. Um, I think, I think anybody who's in Ireland might, you know, okay. Sympathize with
me on that one. Um, and, uh, but we do a thing in school year to transition year. So it's in between, um, your, your exams that you do around age 15 and then your, your senior cycle exams, but transition year is, um, most schools do it now, but it was a pilot program when I did it, um, which is kind of like this break, a little bit not so academic. They take you out, do more practical stuff and you can try different subjects that maybe you didn't do in your junior cycle.
Um, and so business studies was one of those subjects. Hated it. Yeah. Hated it. Yeah. Really just didn't, didn't gel with me at all. Um, and here we are now, um, but some of those things that I really didn't like about, you know, I've had, I've forced myself to like, cause I'm creative.
I like to move. I don't like to be restricted. Um, but really having to sit down and be a lot more organized about budgeting and organized about cashflow and, uh, is, has been really beneficial to be fair, you know, so it's a, that's a type of the side of the business, you know, I'm not going to enjoy, but, um, yeah, it has to be done and it allows us to keep going and, and to do more creative things. So you have a top tip for people on the financial side?
Uh, money management, um, there is a book I recommended to you. Um, and it's called I really do. Uh, so that's a book called profit first. Um, again, I hate, I hated this concept profit profit. Um, but like, if you're not, if you are not, if you're not in profit, then there is no point in doing it. I mean, exactly. You know, I say this all the time too, with like products we bring in the shop and like either cause you know, that pricing is like my personal, I know.
She showed me new yarn today and I said, what's the price? And she said, I don't know. And I was like, well, then how do I know if I want to know it off the top of my head? Oh my God. I that's like pre Barcelona. I figured that I should sign a spreadsheet. Because I always like, it doesn't matter how much I love something because of the price isn't right. There's no point in selling a hundred percent. And I don't actually know where I was going with my
question on that. If you're not in profit, then like you're not in profit and there's no point in doing it because you just, you won't be able to pay your staff or your suppliers or yourself. And you know what kills creativity? Stress. Yes. Right. So you can't have fun with your business. You can't like bring joy and energy to your customers. If you're not taking care of that, you know, absolutely. So that's learning curves. Yeah. So, so that book, I mean like I've only,
when did I read it? It's only about two and a half, three years ago, I think, you know, but it was, it clarified some things for me. And it's actually from a personal budgeting side of things. I had been using this app for a long time called You Need a Budget. So total recommendation here. I should get the affiliate link. Let's get the affiliate link going. So they abbreviated to YNAB. So You Need a Budget. And it's actually recommended. I, back when I used to be on that
platform, but I won't go on anymore. The platform formerly known as, right. It was somebody in the industry that kind of went, I'm looking for a recommendation. And Casey from Ravelry was singing the praises as well. And I kind of went, well, they like, yeah. So that's a long way around to say, definitely if you hate the concept of budgeting, use YNAB. It's brilliant. It's really good. It's allowed on a personal level, like that visibility of my finances that I just didn't have
before. And then I could see how you can use that to apply the profit first method in your business. And visibility was always what caused me stress is that at any one point, I didn't really know. That is a really hard part about running your own business. And I think the thing I really like about profit first is I haven't done all the worksheets, but I have read the first part. Is that because everybody says, oh, like your accountant has that info or, but that is always
history. It is not telling you the money you have in your bank account right now. It's not telling you how much budget you have to spend. It's not really telling you what's coming in or out. And it's not giving you the information on which you can base a strategy. Yes. And that is so your accounts and your bookkeeping are a historic record. And they're not really telling you what you can do. But that mind shift, because I don't know about you, but I've been,
I've had things in my account before and they're like, you've made this much profit. And I'm like, where is it? Because it's not in my bank account. Like, where did it go? And I know that's a really common story amongst entrepreneurs. Like, we're not weird. And now you have to pay tax on the money that you didn't know that you had or that you were supposed to have. How does that work? So the profit first method is all about like the money you actually have to use and figuring out
to see that in a better way. Yeah. And to prioritize how you want to use that money as well. So to make sure that you're, they call it like, well, in YNAB it's giving your dollar is a job. Right. So you've got to give them a role. I mean, it's basically it's the jars. Right. So, but digitally. And you don't have to go in and open for the profit first. You don't have to go and open different actual bank accounts. So you can just sort of nominally have them.
Yeah. My accountant really hated when I did that. Yeah. They're not fans. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you don't have to, we should have talked about that more. We got some time. Okay. So yeah, that I think getting your finances in order is key. I mean, you're not going to last 18 years. No, absolutely not. You don't have a financial plan. Like you can be as creative as you want. You can be, you can have the best product. Oh yeah. And tons of enthusiasm and customer service.
And you can have a good following, but if you don't have the numbers and the money figured out, it like doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. You're not going to be here tomorrow. So, yeah. And we want to be here tomorrow. We definitely want to be here tomorrow. For multiple reasons. Absolutely. Because hair and chops are important. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't want to go back to working elsewhere. I think we're fundamentally unemployable.
I was thinking about this. It's like, there's no way you ever go back. No, no. I cannot personally emboss. Can't cope. Definitely not. Oh dear. You have also diversified quite a bit in what you do. I have. Well, yeah, you have a yarn shop. Yes. Yes. And you talked to us about teaching. I did. Yes. Yes. And then you guys have an in-house hand dyed yarn brand. And you did run some events. Yes, we did. Yes. So that is diversification. Okay. Sometimes I don't like to think about it too much.
Because it's a lot. So tell us why you have done all of these things. Okay. So back to the, just for the love of it a little bit. Well, the festival that we ran definitely came out of that just desire to get people together. But the desire to get them together here, like in Dublin. And yeah, I was working from home more with my kids. So
there was a little bit of a, you know, it made a lot more sense. It was something that I could do from home and not have to be physically in the shop as much because the shop, when I have small children and the shop is an hour long haul commute. So part of that was informed by, well, here's something I can bring to the table. And from the hand dyed yarn perspective, like, I mean, like Jenny came to us with that idea. So my sister, Jenny ended up working in the shop
one weekend because we were really short staffed and we just needed some help. And she wasn't in the yarn world at all. And I don't know, what is it? 14 years later, maybe? Well it is because I met Jenny in the shop when she was also just getting into knitting. I remember we would sort of bounce off each other a little bit. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. Well, we can do it together. But Jenny's background was that she used to, she trained as a colorist in hair salons. So
there's a lot of the technical knowledge there that comes to it. And she is definitely like, she's super creative. I've always liked making, but she has this like affinity for color and just, yeah. I mean, there's some really like unusual colors up here on the wall. I don't think you can see all of them, but yeah, these are not like your standard. No, she's got this. There's literal, there's moments of magic, definitely. She kind of bring up, she's been developing some
colors recently as well. And like, she's like, Oh, I love that one. And you just kind of go, how do you see that? But also the technical side of it as well, because it's not just the, you can't just throw a bit of color. She has to understand how different acid levels, water levels, like she tells me about it. And I think she's let me dye yarn once. And I did used to dye yarn actually, but back in the, we used to do Dublin Dye Company when we
were in Blackrock. I, a pair of socks out of that yarn. Yes, piece of history, piece of history. So, but it was kind of a community based thing because it was a couple of us who did it. We rented a, there was a room above the garden station, the old garden station above us with the water and space to run workshops there. And then we started using the kitchen for dyeing.
We had no clue what we were doing. We had zero clue, but we had fun. And so it was myself and Alana and Yvonne and Yvonne, like Sweetie then, she kept it going for a number of years after that as well. So, but yes, so as diversification, yes, I just like to try new things. And just briefly, are you happy to tell us why Woolen is no longer?
Yeah, no, I've got several reasons. I mean, it's not no one thing. So obviously when COVID came around and we were due to hold the festival in June, 2020, March, 2020, everything shut down. Speaking of, I actually came across a promo video that we had made for that event. Very recently, I was like going through something and I was like, what is this video? And I watched it and I was like, oh, promo video we'd like recorded. I will tell you, my heart was broken.
We had put so much work into that already. I mean, like events like this, they really, they take nine months or more to really bring together. So we had had a lot had gone into it. So it was, it was heartbreaking. And for event organizers everywhere of all different types, it hit hard. And my son was also in hospital quite ill at the time. And I was trying to manage all of the fallout from everything. And anyway, that's on the personal note. But we did still want to
bring it back. We postponed it for a year. Of course, a year later, things still weren't very clear about safety levels. And then when it came back around to two years later, the Warnier Crane had broken out, which you wouldn't think would have an impact on the festival. But it didn't because in Ireland, we took in, rightly, quite a high number of refugees from the war. And they were generally being accommodated in hotels. We didn't really, we don't have the emergency
accommodation for that. So for a festival that's an international festival, you asked for briefly. I didn't know this part of the story. Yeah. You need to have that accommodation easily accessible and affordable so that people can come and shop and enjoy themselves and still have some money to spend with the vendors. And so that was another blow. And Brexit, because our pool of vendors is absolutely
among more experienced operators like ourselves, but some smaller indie operators. And there has been, even when the UK was in the EU, paperwork and headaches in relation to- To VAT registrations and all of that, which we were absolutely helping people out with as much as we could from the role of the organisers. But to add in- Just VAT deregistered in Ireland. Just, yeah. Like three months ago. There you go. Oh, that's woollen really over then.
Yeah. Well, I had to sit there and I was like, okay, do I still need this advent task of like every three months- Zero. Zero. Zero. Yeah. I just thought, I don't. Well, we've had to register for UK VAT. Yeah. So, but yeah, that was so, I mean, there's three prongs really. So it was sort of cut after cut after cut and we just had to kind of go, wow, look, we can certainly consider running smaller events in the future with Irish vendors. But I know that it's just a level of commitment
and cost and time and paperwork for UK vendors to come over here. The Knitting and Stitching show, which is organised by a large events management company, doesn't happen in Dublin anymore. They've moved it to Belfast. Yeah. Well, because they're a UK based- They are a UK based company. They're owned by one of the publishers now. I don't remember which might be future. That sounds familiar. I think it's future. Okay. Yeah. It could be. So, but you also kind of feel if they can't figure it.
So, we try our best. Well, there's a lot of moving parts. Yeah. And a lot of logistics and a lot of- Management of people. I said, Aisling, we were at Barcelona Knits Festival. Just, I'm not sure when this is going out, but it was on quite recently and this morning. So, Aisling does a lot of our customer service, like the messages through the website and chat. And a lovely person had asked, are you planning on having Wollin again? Because I'm visiting Ireland and I
would time it to coincide with that. And I mean, usually at this stage, Aisling would go, I'm terribly sorry. And it is lovely that people are asking. And I was like, how come you sent that to me? Because she sent it on to me. And she says, just checking before I say no. And I was like, I thought we'd had this conversation several times. And she says, yeah, but I saw a glint in your eye in Barcelona. Nah. It is though. Sometimes your team members, you've like, that has happened to me too.
I'm like, no, this is not what we're doing. We've closed the door. And then you're like, yeah, but. And then suddenly we're doing something again. Yeah. Yeah. It's a not, it's never say never. But currently, no. There's too many things working against us, unfortunately. And the older version of me, which would not have been so focused on the financials. Yes. Would have done it for the love of it. A love that you have evolved in that way. That's great. You know, makes other people sad.
Well, yeah, but again, an event like that has to make sense for everybody. And it's not just that it has to make sense for you and your team, but like all of the vendors, like there's so much pressure. Oh my gosh. On the organisers, yeah. Because if vendors don't make money, they're really upset. And I like, I felt that so hard where it was like, people, I know the effort and the work and the time and the sleepless nights the vendors have in preparing for events like
that. And sometimes maybe it's better to be an organiser of an event like that where you've never been. Yeah. Or you don't personally know people. Yeah. Yeah. But you feel a lot of responsibility, a huge amount. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, your band was broken into. Oh yeah. Oh my God. Oh my God. I never actually told that story publicly. Have you not? Oh, sorry. I'll say nothing. Totally fine. We can say a side note into that. That was the second one. Second one, yeah.
We were, it was the end of the show. We were packing up at a hotel. We'd packed up the entire van and I closed the door, went to lock it and the lock wasn't there anymore. Yes. So someone had broken into the van hoping something was in there, but the van had been empty when they broke into it. Thankfully. I actually, because obviously I unlocked it to start with. So I think it got broken into somehow. Like really quickly. As we were. It was getting dark.
Packing up and stuff. So there might've been like some shelving in there that they didn't want. And then we had to, because we couldn't drive it, the door didn't stay closed. It didn't stay secured. We had to unload the entire van back into the hotel. After a whole show weekend. After packing everything up. Thankfully the bar was full of helpful people and all the knitters came out and unloaded the van. There was a human chain.
There was. There was a human chain of like boxes and grid wall and this, that and the other. And the hotel gave us a room to start getting in. They were really good. They were really good. I just remember you having a moment of going like, Stephen West is just coordinating people to lift boxes. Well, and that was the thing. Like someone basically kind of, I was like, the police were there. I was talking to people and I turned around and like someone had just gone
into the bar and said, like, they need help. Like everybody out. And all of a sudden there were like 30 people. It was actually a wonderful moment. When you look in amongst all of that and you look at it now, it was just, that's, that's the yarn industry at its best. It absolutely is. And they were lovely, but the rental car company wasn't. I remember. Yeah. So we obviously couldn't drive the van home back to the UK. This was pre-Brexit.
Yes. And I spent the whole next day on the phone with the rental car company basically telling me I wasn't in Europe or something like that. And I was trying to argue geography with them. How fun. Fun. Exactly what you needed on top of everything else. Yeah. And we needed to get back. We had like a ferry booked and we lost our entire like fun day in Dublin for this, but that's okay. Yeah. And the solution. You had to drive to Belfast.
Yeah. So the solution that the rental car company had for me was we could pick up a car at Dublin airport. Yeah. Drive to Belfast where they would give me a car, not a van, a car. We would drive back down to Dublin, return the first car. So I ended up with like some sort of an SUV. Okay. So not a van. Yeah. We left like furniture behind. I remember that. Yeah. We took the yarn, a couple of people who'd still had like space in their cars and vans
heading back near me in the UK had taken a few things. And then, yeah, we got back and the rental car company was basically like, I mean, it was the manager at that enterprise that like really did my head in too. Cause she just, I just got a load of shit from her actually about the whole thing. But that event meant that we lost money on the event. Yeah. Right. And I mean, that's nobody's fault. No, no, no. But, but the, but the thing is as an, as the organizer, like stuff like that
happens. Oh my God. Well, I, okay. I feel it. Maybe not everybody would. Um, I mean, we had, uh, I think in year one, uh, somebody's boxes didn't show up. Oh yes. I remember that. Was that travel knitter? I think. It was travel knitter. It was travel knitter, you know, and then again, people rally around and they sent, you know, say, go, you know, go buy something on their website and what, and they do do that. And it's, uh, it's amazing. And it's just completely not their fault.
Yeah. It's really bad. And there's like literally nothing to do about that. And, you know, also if we weren't as robust a business as we were, that could have really, really hurt. I mean, it wasn't great. I'm not saying like, yeah, I can just go to events and lose money, but, uh, no, it's, it's hard. And it's hard in the, in the way that exams are hard,
because it all comes down to what happens on those days. Um, and nine months of planning and work and stuff can be, um, wiped out by bad weather or by a public transport strike or, right. Yeah. So why did I do this? It's okay. You're not doing it anymore. But it's, you know, it is, it's, it's, it's the old end of the day things, but at the same time, it's such a buzz. It's such a buzz. Yeah. And we both love attending events and bending at them.
Absolutely. Yeah. When it goes right, it's magic. It is magic. And you get to see all the people. I mean, that's the thing, right? Like you get to be out there with customers and community and that's the best part. So, but I think it's fine. I'm not driving any more vans to Dublin. Not from the UK. Um, I mean, we could definitely waffle on for absolutely ever here, but we probably want Guinness and dinner.
We do. So I will ask you one last question. And that is if you could give someone starting a new retail business, not necessarily a yarn shop, but a new retail business, one piece of advice that like you wish you had earlier, one piece of knowledge, maybe what would it be? That's toughie. I think funnily enough, and I have been thinking about this a little recently because we're, you know, at 18 years, you start to like, look back. Um, I think don't
go in underfunded. Yes. Even though that's exactly what we did. We, yeah, we did what everybody does. Yeah. Um, but we, looking back at those 18 years, I think maybe we could have gotten where we are now sooner. Um, having that little bit of faith in ourselves, maybe that we were missing. Um, so yeah, it takes more money than you think. Um, it takes a lot of your time and energy and, you know, the, the classic theme of, Hey, I gave up working nine to five so I could
work 24 seven. It's all consuming. Um, but there's so much, so much good in this and so much worthwhile and you can, you can build your own community, which is something that a lot of people, um, are missing there, you know, and we need that. So, but yeah, just, just try not to go in underfunded. Um, and by underfunded, do you mean like, save up longer of your own personal money to put in or like, don't be so fearful of taking out a
bigger loan or like finding funding? Find, like finding funding is a big thing. And I, I, uh, there were definitely supports out there from government organizations, at least in Ireland, that I wasn't aware of at the time. Yeah, you have like, really good support here in Ireland. Yes. I know, I think Scotland and Wales, um, have similar stuff. England doesn't. I find that so crazy. Yeah. Um, but, but yeah, like really dig into your research. Like,
don't be afraid to ask for help. I was so much like, what, feeling like I was going to get found out. Right. So I'm a total imposter. I just had to be over here in my corner doing a thing. And then like, and so much more good has come my way as I like put myself out there a little bit more. And, uh, yeah. And I said to you, like, was it this time last year? I was like,
terrified of networking. I can't do this. Literally terrified of networking. And, and that's something that I've like, just dove into so much this year. Had some incredible experiences. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, you've got to keep doing what you're, what you feel like you're into it anyway. Yeah. No. Um, and if you're taking out a bank loan, take out what you figured. Yeah. Yeah. Take out, take out what they'll give you. Yeah. Take out
what they'll give you. Yeah. Um, because you will need it. Yeah. At the cost of everything goes up. There's all sorts of omphacines, even development of here, you know, that they're just going to crop up. So you've got to, you've got to factor that in. I think the thing I was, um, most surprised by when I was like, I had done budgets. I'd like, I'd put all things in spreadsheets. Um, and then I went to start my ordering, right. I had a budget for things and I got the needles. Oh yeah.
And I was like, that is so much more than I expected it to be. Cause you need them in this length and that length and the other size and that material. And yeah. And, uh, so there's always something that pops up that is more than you think it's going to be. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. There's all those omphacines, but you know, you've just, you gotta, you gotta dive on in there. It's totally fun running a retail shop, isn't it?
It is for sure. For sure. And ask, just, just do that thing. Ask for help and you know, um, but don't be afraid to admit you don't know. Don't be like me. We all do that though. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, um, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing all about your business. Um, I hope it's useful to other people out there and you know, the yarn industry absolutely needs more people to, to come on and in. We need more knitters. We need more
knitters. And, uh, yes. And, and just more people diving, diving into the industry. So, yeah. Um, so you can follow Lisa at thisisknit on Instagram. All of her handles and stuff will be down below. And don't forget to like comment and subscribe to our channel and share us with your friends. What Carmen's doing is great. Keep following. See you next time.