#10 - On Female Same-Sex Attractions

Waheed:   0:00
This is Waheed Jensen and you are listening to "A Way Beyond the Rainbow".  Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi ta'ala wa baraktuhu and welcome to the 10th episode of "A Way Beyond the Rainbow", this podcast series dedicated to Muslims struggling with same-sex attractions who want to live a life true to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and Islam. I am your host, Waheed Jensen. Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode. Today's episode is a very special episode. We will be talking about female same-sex attractions. In this episode, there are so many things that are common to the earlier episodes, particularly episodes 7, 8 and 9, and many of the topics that we have previously discussed in the last three episodes apply to both, males and females, struggling with same-sex attractions. But in today's episode, some of the topics that we discuss are going to be unique to the condition of females who experience same-sex attractions. You know, there are a lot of overlapping points, and some of the ideas presented kind of elaborate on the previous topics, and they also give us a different angle of looking at them. Men and women, with and without same-sex attractions, can also benefit from this episode inshaAllah, because they might themselves be dealing with or might have in the future a female who experiences same-sex attractions approach them for support or understanding, and so, you know, they might be able to help that friend - be that a friend or a colleague or a sibling or relative or a daughter even, and so that would be relevant. In addition, in addition to this, I would like to say that a lot of the topics presented in today's episode are also relevant for females who experience gender dysphoria, or gender identity disorder. Yes, there are a lot of differences, but there are some overlapping topics that are worth exploring in this episode. The topic of gender identity disorder and transgenderism is a huge, huge topic, and we will address that inshaAllah in later episodes down the line. But some of the ideas presented here and of course in previous episodes might be of relevance to individuals struggling with gender identity disorder as well. I would like to dedicate this episode to all of the sisters out there, to my sisters, who are in this journey of experiencing same-sex attractions, to all of the wonderful, wonderful women out there who are experiencing this and struggling with this. I would like to say you are rock stars. You are amazing human beings. The e-mails I have received from the wonderful sisters out there have been very warm, very loving. There is a certain, you know, spirit that permeates their words. It's full of love and warmth and kindness. They have a different spirit altogether. So I would like to say: I am humbled to be addressing you in particular in this episode, and this is for you, and I hope that you find this episode beneficial inshaAllah. I would like to add a trigger warning again at the beginning of this episode, that a lot of the concepts discussed in this episode may be triggering to a lot of women with SSA who feel that they identify with a lot of these topics that are being discussed in this episode, and another trigger warning for a section of this episode, which tackles trauma and childhood sexual abuse. The main reference for this episode is Dr. Janelle Hallman's book the heart of female same sex attraction, a comprehensive counseling resource. I will add a link to the book in the episode description inshaAllah. I do recommend that anyone interested in learning more about female same sex attractions to know how to navigate that, to know some therapeutic techniques. Whether you are a female struggling with this or anyone who wants to learn more about this topic, this book is a great resource and definitely a starting point for this. Dr Janelle Hallman is a licensed professional counsellor who is located in Denver, Colorado, in the U. S and she specializes in female homosexuality and emotional dependencies. She speaks, consults, supervises and writes extensively on these subjects. She's an ordained minister and conducts conferences on sexuality, gender redemption and healing. I would like to start this episode with a quote from the beginning of her book, and she says, "Women with SSA  have certain traits and styles of relating that also create distinctiveness in the therapeutic setting. They are deep thinkers, dynamic and delightful. They have an endless capacity to give and help others and are extremely creative and passionate. They are also refreshingly honest and direct. If I accomplish nothing else within this book, I hope to communicate my respect and honor for each one of them and to pay tribute by introducing them as the exceptional women they truly are. I have spoken to many counsellors who have secretly admitted to me that their favorite client is a woman with a SSA. However, these women can also be very challenging. They often display more defiance, defensiveness and open aggression than other clients. They want to cut to the chase. They will not tolerate what they call "psychobabble" and will immediately recognize inauthenticity on the therapists part. They have no problem with confronting or challenging their therapists, counsel or underlying attitude. They may be hypersensitive and seemingly resistant to common therapeutic interventions. Work with these women requires more energy, ingenuity and a level of commitment than with other clients. There is also a spiritually intensity that is unmatched with other clients. The battle being waged over the lives of these women far exceeds the normal trials and tribulations of sexual temptation or low self esteem. For example, it is a battle for their very souls and person hoods. There is a force that seeks to extinguish their spirits and vitality. As their counsellor, I must regularly stand in the gap and fight on their behalf. I fight for their voice, their right to live and be, and their inner and outer strengths and beauty. Yet these women exhibit incredible tenacity and commitment to grow, and heal in light of this battle."  

Waheed:   7:36
So as you recall, in episode 7, we touched upon the topic of genetics, the genetic component to same sex attractions as well as the temperamental predisposition. Now Janelle Hallman says that women with SSA have some exceptional and quite, you know, probably inherited characteristics and personality traits. And and these include, for example, above average intelligence. They are profoundly sensitive and attuned to other people and relational dynamics. They're observant and curious, and they have this propensity to ponder, analyze and reflect. And they exhibit gender, non conforming abilities and interests. For example, tomboyishness. They have an innate sense of justice. They are gifted and talented. Their creativity is far reaching, and they have a high level of energy and are adventurous and often athletic. She also says that the parents of daughters with SSA with whom she had spoken confirm those traits. It's not uncommon for a mother to say that well, my daughter is not normal. She is actually exceptional. She excels in everything. Many of the women with SSA that she has dealt with say they exhibit special abilities and sensitivities, and they have a passion for humanitarian concerns at a very young age. They're usually what they call the "champion for the underdog. and have a great capacity for advocacy and care. It's also not uncommon to hear that those women with SSA they hold postgraduate degrees. They have received endless honors and awards, and they have achieved national recognition in their fields of expertise or athleticism even. And so in general, there are four developmental categories that are quite conflicting in women with same sex attractions. And these are attachment, formation of the self, gender identity and socialization. And we will be addressing all of these throughout the episode in sha Allah. So what's necessary to point out is that the conflict in the lives of women with same sex attractions, they're not necessarily due only to a poor environment or to abusive experiences, but it's more fully under understood in the context of the unique biological and neurological structures that influenced the way these women processed certain environmental and experiential material.   

Waheed:   10:24
Let's start talking about attachment and the family dynamics in the childhood of women with SSA. So typically in the history of those women, there are interference's and stresses or failures in the most primal attachment often arising at birth and continuing throughout childhood. And these disruptions can actually be true. You know they're actual disruptions. Or they might be perceived as such by the woman who experienced the same sex attractions. And these are usually rooted in either, for example, you know, prenatal or birth or post natal difficulties or complications. We'll talk about this in a little bit. Any separations from the mother due to, for example, maternal death or adoption or any major illness or divorce or other extenuating circumstances, any maternal deficits or weaknesses that arise out of the mother's own personal attachment, history and developmental difficulties. Or maybe because of actual maternal abuse or abandonment, or what we call defensive detachment on the daughter's part due to the daughter's perceptions and sensitivities or negative conclusions and beliefs about her mother and the nature of their relationship. So let's try and examine some of these big ideas. What's important to note is that most of the attachment difficulties and the problems that the woman with SSA have cannot be attributed to a mother's intentional failure or shortcomings, nor convince you that a mother had an ill intention. Even if she was abusive, she may simply have been repeating what she experienced in her own childhood. Every woman with SSA who is seeking to understand her life will have to at some point grapple with the realities of her mother's own life, her circumstances and possibly her emotional poverty. So remember at the beginning of episode seven and this was, you know, a message that we constantly tried to internalize, which is the fact that we're not here to blame anyone, certainly not our parents. We need to realize that our parents did the best they could with what they were given. At the time, many of them endured very harsh conditions growing up and, you know, any any traumas or issues that we had encountered with them is almost in almost all cases unintentional. It was just the reality of the situation. So in this regard, it's very common for women with SSA to report that their mother's lives were often extremely difficult, particularly during their pregnancies, or that the pregnancy's themselves were difficult or unexpected. You know, mothers often faced either family deaths or disruptive moves or financial crises or a lack of support during the pregnancy. For example, in the lives of many women with SSA, some of the mothers based on how they were carrying the pregnancy were sure they were having a boy, for example. Now there is no evidence to kind of say that well, you know, a parent's belief or a wish to have an opposite sex child directly influences the development of their child's sense of value or gender, let alone sexual orientation. But you know some specialists and gender identity development, they admit that a parent's reaction to the infant of the non preferred sex after birth may indeed be influential, in some cases. Some researchers have pointed out that if a female child is regarded with displeasure or depression, the baby will assume from birth that something is not right with her. So Janelle Hallman believes that this is the case with many of her female clients with same-sex attractions. And remember in episode eight when we talked about the intrauterine influences what happens usually within the mother's womb. Ah, a lot of the emotions that she internalizes lot of the energies that she absorbs also end up affecting the baby, right, whether the experience is during pregnancy were positive or negative that this has an effect on the unborn baby, and these things may also apply here. Attachment specialists Levi and Orleans in 1998, they note that an infant's experience of maternal inconsistency or loss of an attachment figure can cause pathological mourning, resulting in disturbed development, emotional detachment and an inability to love and trust. And this may give a depressive undertone to the whole remainder of life in some cases, as it is reported in literature. So in summary, many women with SSA may have had multiple traumatic experiences by the time that they were six months old. If we were to conceptualize their lives in terms of building blocks, so the first layer of blocks is is missing in so many places, trust is compromised, attachment is threatened. And this tiny, foundational self that is trying to grow may be fracturing. It is not uncommon to find that both parents of a woman with a SSA grew up in environments that were characterized by insecure attachment or relational deprivations or actual abandonment. The fact that many parents grew up in unhealthy or unsatisfactory environments does not make them bad parents, so to speak. But many may be unaware of possible attachment patterns that are quite ineffective in relation to their own children and even spouses.  

Waheed:   16:31
Let's talk a little bit about, you know, the relationship between the mother and her daughter in the lives of women who have same sex attractions. So many of these women describe this dynamic with their mothers on extreme ends, from either too much connectedness to too much separation. There seems to be no middle ground. Those who experienced excessive closeness or connectedness with their moms often described the mother daughter relationship as more of a mutual absorption than a healthy attachment. They were undifferentiated from their mothers and they were emotionally enmeshed with them, often feeling what their mothers felt as if there was a sort of a fusion. They worried about, you know, moms sadness or difficulty in her marriage. At times, it was very difficult for them to kind of distinguish between their mother's feelings and their own feelings. Many women and this is not known to their moms, they assumed the role of the mother's caretaker. They came to believe that if Mom is OK, I am OK. In severe cases, in order to maintain a sense of connection with their mothers, those daughters had to deny or dismiss their own needs or feelings instead of mom's concerns or feelings. I would put my mom's concerns or feelings on top of my needs, to the point that I would lose myself or forget about myself completely. Women who experienced excessive distance or separateness in their relationships with their mothers often speak in terms of a total absence of warm emotional connection. They perceive their mothers as being beautiful but detached, stoic and empty. They explained that their mother's "fixed meals, cleaned the house, joined carpools, regularly attended sporting events, but they were never truly present." The daughters didn't feel connected. They questioned whether their mothers were ever engaged with their inner thoughts or feelings. Many women also report that their mothers were emotionally unavailable because of maternal depression. Being depressed doesn't mean that the mother doesn't care. However, her emotions and reactions are often numbed and delayed, and this restricts her ability to emotionally connect with her daughter. So this failure, in attuning with the daughter can weaken a mother daughter attachment, and it creates a sense of a distance between them. In many cases, the mothers were so chronically depressed that they explicitly relied on their daughters for their own physical and emotional support. Recall in episode seven, when we talked about the fact that the mother is the first person with whom the baby attaches whether that's a baby boy or baby girl right? Now, in contrast to the boy's critical developmental process of kind of differentiating from the mother moving out of the mother's world and into the world of the father, the world of the masculine, a girl remains securely attached to the mom, and she grows as a unique individual within the world of the mom, the world of the feminine right? She doesn't have that additional step like the boy does now. The father, in this case, has to kind of move into the girl's world to protect that special mother daughter relationship and to bless her unique self and her feminine identity. So if we think about that, the mother in this case is a little girl's primal and enduring home. In a sense, it's through this warm and secure and ongoing attachment with the mother that a girl will form her basic sense of self that she will mirror and model and identify with the mother, understand herself as a female and then differentiate and discover her own unique and individual identity. And then she will learn how to go about having relationships with other people. So this primal attachment with the mother will act as a model for all of her future emotional relationships. Now, because of the inherent insecurities that also arise out of, you know, kind of an emotional absence of the fathers and any anxieties within the mother daughter relationship, women with SSA regularly report feeling deeply deprived of that maternal nurturing and affection. They speak as if their own person hood, their own, you know, existence and their own autonomy was felt to be under constant attack or threat of complete annihilation, so to speak. Those women didn't symbolize, honor or internalize a sense of a mother as the home base from which they could develop an autonomous self. Instead, they felt unsafe, depleted as they were constantly attuned to their mothers stresses and needs. So in a sense, those women experienced there's this weight on my shoulders. It's full of negativity. There's a lot of mistrust, a lot of abandonment, and some are very heartbroken when they admit that they have a lot of disrespect for their mothers.  

Waheed:   22:12
That's as far as the mother is concerned. What about the father in the life of his daughter? So you know, as we said, a loving and engaged father is very essential for a girl's healthy growth and development. The father has to kind of move into her world as well as the world of the mother, to protect that special bond between the mother and the daughter. By supporting the wife and affirming and to call onto the daughters, you know that the unique self and her feminine identity. Now what happens with women with SSA is that most of them report that they can't remember that kind of supportive involvement by the fathers. They describe this dynamic with the fathers in terms of again extreme, either extreme closeness or extreme distance. Many of them talk about, you know, Dad's warm, kind and fun presence. And as a child, you know that the woman used to consider herself as dad's favorite or his, you know, special pal, so to speak. But when we look closely into that closeness with a father, it only occurred when these girls, they themselves stepped into the father's world. They engaged in his interests and activities. Granted that many of these girls, they genuinely, let's say, enjoyed activities that the father himself enjoyed. Like for example, you know, going out fishing or mechanics, cars, whatever. But the fun and the nature of these interactions during these activities was more about the father than the daughter. Rarely did any of these women experience Dad's devoted attunement to her own inner thoughts and feelings, or her own special interests that were kind of outside his own world, right? And in some extreme cases, many of these women, they shifted aspects of their own identity or became like their dads in order to maintain a sense of connection with him. Sometimes the daughters perceived that their dad's had kind of an unconscious energy to make them more masculine, to groom them to be tough and self sufficient. Because many of these women, as we spoke about earlier, they have superior athletic abilities. To begin with, they have scholastic excellence. Their dads, in many cases assumed the role of the coach or the chief critic or the academic advisor. So the girls felt this pressure to kind of try and meet dad's often unrealistic standards or to follow his academic goals for their own lives. And so many of these women believed that in order for me to remain in a relationship with my dad, I have to let go of my own thoughts and desires and goals. And whenever they try to voice their opinions or needs, they were often met with dad's anger or accusations that they were being ungrateful for his involvement or his help. They felt that they could not win, so they either had to give up their relationship with dad or their own self, so that that was it. As girls, many of them had this sense that Dad was kind of vicariously living through some sort of a childhood dream through them, leaving them feeling used rather than valued and nurtured. So even though many of those women refer to their fathers as their lifeline and their closest ally, the majority of them struggle with a strong sense that their fathers were emotionally absent or unpredictably angry. Now, perhaps because of their inherent sensitivity, those women reports severe reactions whenever they encounter their father's anger or his cold and controlling personality or kind of his authoritarian attitude. They cultivate a very deep fear, which often developed into the belief that men are not safe again as means to regain a sense of connection with the father, they unconsciously aligned themselves with the father, who is, you know, perceived as an aggressor in this case, in an attempt to identify and associate with his apparent power and strength.  

Waheed:   26:46
Let's talk a little bit now about the family patterns in general. So many girls with SSA grew up in religiously conservative families. The parents have this general belief that there first and foremost responsibility is to kind of shield the daughter from any outside negative influences. As adolescents, the girls felt scrutinized and under constant surveillance from the parents. They did not feel free to develop certain friendships or they were not allowed to engage in, you know, the "normal behavior" by teenagers to socialize, for example. So as a result, they often felt that they were missed in a sense that their parents continuously reacted with a lot of fear to the cultures and the environments in which the daughters had to function and live. The girls were regularly pushed to work harder to do better and above else to always be good. But no matter how much they tried, the daughter has never felt as if they measured up, they concluded. As a result, their parents cared more about those external dangers that were surrounding them than the woman's own thoughts, feelings and her own uniqueness, so to speak. So in the end, they felt kind of detached. They felt like strangers within their own families. Many women with SSA, whether they're young or old, they kind of say that they've never experienced what it was like to have their deepest feelings and concerns regularly pursued, let alone understood or honored. So, in their effort to please, they learn to keep everything inside. They ruminated and internalized beliefs such as feelings are not good. It's not safe to feel no one can handle my feelings or thoughts. If a woman's family was founded upon strong ethics of self sufficiency and hard work, she may have internalized the message that it doesn't matter how I feel. Just do it. Many of the women with SSA believe that it is a virtue to live independent of all supportive resources and to never admit vulnerability or need. To some of them, vulnerability and need are the ultimate signs of weakness. And this also applies to, you know, males with same sex attractions of as we've spoken about in previous episodes. You know, the themes are kind of very similar. So again, as we said, that the daughters core sense of self will gradually emerge when she continues to to have a warm and supportive and empathic relationship with the mother. However, this self needs to kind of differentiate and to become unique autonomous self, not like an appendage of the mother, all right, not to not to be stuck to the mother, and feel like I'm kind of part of her right? To gain a sense of autonomy and differentiation, but also to also be attached to the mom in a healthy way. This requires the father to be involved and to be attuned into this and to notice and to validate and to affirm and to support the daughter becoming her own person, her own self individual in a sense. Now, many of the many of the women with same sex attractions report that they have kind of never completed this differentiation process to become their own person, psychologically and emotionally. Their existence is kind of unconsciously felt just to be still dependent on their mothers and to be kind of completely independent of their fathers who are not available or not affectionate enough. We're not truly known to them. They remain kind of arrested in those developmental stages of being dependent and unable to differentiate, and as a result, they're not able to secure their own self in their own unique identity.  

Waheed:   31:16
Now let's talk about some of the defenses that, um, arise as a result of this. So, in an effort to kind of survive this overwhelming insecurity and the negative feelings that are associated with attachment with the mother, those women, as young girls, often started this unconscious process of preserving themselves by developing defenses. And these defenses, mainly, are defensive detachment and dis-identification. As you remember in previous episodes, in particular episode seven, we talked about the concept of defensive detachment, and this is observed in both men and women with same sex attractions. It's not just childhood withdrawal or, you know, not wanting to emotionally connect with the same sex parent, but it's also a refusal to ever connect. Like I don't want to connect with my father if I'm a male with SSA or my mother, if I'm a female with SSA. The detachment happened not necessarily for fear of abuse or physical harm from the mom in the case of a woman with same sex attractions, but it's because they were afraid of being met with rejection with a sense of nothingness, right, so the girl would no longer be able to endure this painful disappointment. She eventually detaches from the mom and possibly members of the same sex. And this detachment may even take on a hostile appearance such as in quite antagonistic behaviors like finding faults, resentment, being cold, being defiant or it may be very latent and subtle, as in when a girl kind of okay, I will stay close to my mom. But there is a kind of a detachment still because, okay, I have to take care of my mom. I'm my mom's caretaker or because I'm helplessly enmeshed in this relationship. I just cannot completely detached. But there is a sense of detachment internally, and there is also what is called a dis-identification. So the woman with SSA, you know, as a girl, as a young girl, she dis-identified rather than identified with their mothers. In other words, the women would recall feeling more dis-similar to their mothers, and they would have less desire to be like their own mothers than other women kind of feel towards their own mothers. So this identification, which is like defensive detachment in this case, it's not a result of a breakdown in the identification process, but it's also an ongoing dynamic it keeps on going. It's a reaction against the identification with the mother and also, uh, as you recall in the previous episode, we talked about the differences between the true self and the false self. Now, in this case, a lot of women with SSA at an earlier stage in life, they feel that they are the unlovable one or the bad one. So this allows them to believe that they were the cause of their loneliness and their emptiness. And this was kind of preferable to face the reality that mom or dad had failed or were less than perfect. Many of these false selves appear, and they kind of provide them with the sense of attachment. So if I am the helper, I will be loved or it was kind of self protective. If I am tough, if I appear tough, if I put on this mask, I will be safe now. Living with this false self or this created self means that the girl had to exert most of their energies on maintaining those external behaviors and their attitudes and their ways of expression, which kind of focused on their own survival. And it didn't allow them to develop their own authentic selves. So unconsciously they were still dependent on the signals and the reactions of the parents and other people around them to stabilize their lives to stabilize their internal selves. As adolescents and adults, they often became very dependent on the affirmation of their partners or their friends to verify that they are acceptable and they are safe.  

Waheed:   36:00
As children many girls with SSA often displayed what are stereo typically defined as masculine or gender nonconforming behaviors and interests like they would be more interested in running, for example, exploring riding, bikes, building, building castles, playing sports among so many other things. They enjoyed being outside they, they portrayed a sense of fearlessness and aggression in their outdoor endeavors. They didn't care about, you know, playing with dirt, getting any kind of scrapes or bruises. They didn't typically enjoy playing house, for example, or cuddling dolls or having tea parties or dressing up. They had little interest in kitchen or household chores. It was difficult for many of them to sit "quietly or properly" and they were typical tomboys in many cases. Now, Hallman argues, since these women as girls demonstrated a natural interest and enjoyment of these cross gender interests and behaviors combined with superior performance and skills, she suggests that these gender, non conforming traits most likely represent a genetic or biological component of their innate personhood or nature. Now recall from episode seven when we said that research has shown that a large proportion of men and women who identified as homosexual or who have, SSA they have greater rates of childhood, cross gender behavior or gender non conforming behavior compared to the heterosexual men and women and basically gender nonconformity in childhood is considered to be one of the strongest correlating factors with later adult homosexuality. Right? Now, this doesn't mean that gender nonconformity directly causes homosexuality, but it may still have a substantial developmental influence, and it's very important to know that not all women with SSA recall atypical sex typed behaviors or gender, non conforming behaviors, right? Likewise, many gender nonconforming girls did not struggle with cross gender identification or homosexuality, or they ended up developing same sex attractions. In addition to that many women with SSA are typically born as biological females, they knew this as children and they, appropriately applied sex labels to themselves and to others. They were able to differentiate boys from girls and they knew that they themselves were girls. So this is the first step in the girl's gender identity development. Now, the next step in gender identity development is to kind of be aware of and distinguished the cultural sex rules that kind of discriminate between girls and boys. And usually a girl can become aware mentally of these stereotypes. The idea that okay, a girl you do plays with dolls, boys play with cars, you know, and other other examples, of course. And this can be done as early as around 26 months old. So two years and a couple of months. Now, the difficulty at this stage in the lives of women with SSA is not the fact that they could not identify those sex role stereotypes, but they did not have an interest or a preference for those characteristics and social roles that are unique to females, as shown in their families or their schools or the mosques or the places of worship in general. The broader culture there was a sense of, I'm not interested. I'm even disgusted by all of this. And this may be because the girl herself has gender, non conforming interests. But also she may have perceived a sense of restriction or sense of oppression by those female characteristics and roles. And she may already have had this sense of dis-identification from the mother, the female roles in general, and this has played a role in her perception. Again to kind of be secure in her girlhood and her feminine identity, those girls, at least needed to discover and identify with some desirable and respectable characteristics and traits within some women or social images of females. If a gender nonconforming girl finds other females who enjoy the same things that she enjoys, and if she receives ongoing acceptance and respect and affirmation from them to her for being a girl, then things might actually be under control and things might be stable, and she will be fine. A girl in this case can still proceed to develop a healthy sense of femaleness and femininity. But that is not always the case. And in addition to that, a lot of women who identify as lesbian may have qualified for the formal diagnosis of gender identity disorder in childhood, which later might cause them to become transgender. And again, this is a whole different discussion, and we will get to that inshaAllah in later episodes. Now the problem is that a lot of women with same sex attractions did not find other girls who shared their interests. Instead, they noticed the boys, and they came to the conclusion that boy's compared to their female friends, who prefer tea parties and dolls and whatever. The boys were definitely more fun, you know. And when those girls watch their parents, they would see that many women are always serving, their less than right? Men are more powerful. They have more freedom. They also saw that in their own environments growing up, they were kind of forced to mould themselves into those rigid definitions of femaleness, or they were shamed into believing that their interests and abilities made them less of a girl - were unacceptably different. Now, this type of humiliation and rejection of a girl's unique interests. This can cause her to kind of question things, and she starts wondering whether it's a good thing to be a girl, especially if she already carries a negative view of female sex roles. She may wonder whether she is normal, since she has no interest in those traditional female roles. She might then ask herself, "Do I want to be a girl?" Do I want to to be like the other females in my life? And so this kind of generates a difficulty in her gender identity formation. It's important at this point, to kind of stress that you know, girls and non stereotypical gender characteristics and this tomboyishness, so to speak, such as preparing, you know, let's say, functional clothing, men's clothing or short hair. This no way directly diminishes her femaleness, and this can usually be viewed as normative variations of individual diversity. And it depends on culture, right? But what's important is that in this particular context, when the girl starts asking herself these questions and she's in that stage instead of being content as being a girl who plays football or, you know, soccer as it's referred to in the states or you know, who play sports and is very active, and she's even, she might even be better than most boys. You know, a girl who answers the question of what I want to be a girl or do I want to be like other females in my life? And if the answer is no, then she kind of begins to reject the notion of girlhood altogether. And if she has concluded that being a boy is just better in every way, then the thought that "I wish I were a boy" naturally follows. When a young girl regularly dwells on a fantasy wish to be a boy, she may find that it evolves into an obsessive desire. Now, at this point, we have a problem. It's not just simply preferring or pursuing stereotypical masculine interests because of her inborn giftedness or because of her athletic abilities or what have you. She may even intentionally develop and start strengthening those masculine attitudes and behaviors because she wants to escape this dreaded femininity or girlhood, or there was female roles that she doesn't like and feels disgusted, even by. While other tomboyish girls who may not even have SSA, they casually dress in masculinized clothing, those girls with SSA begin to insist on boys clothing, and they insist on acting like a boy. They start adopting the mannerisms and the behaviors such as even, you know, to an extreme extent of urinating while standing right as opposed to sitting. And they have an aversion to looking or acting like a girl. Many also identify with a male aggressor. They become preoccupied with power and aggression and protection fantasies. At this point, they are most likely experiencing deep seated gender identity confusion. Many women with SSA report a failure to integrate a solid gender identity. Like many girls who fit the criteria for gender identity disorder, some women with SSA found safety or possible relief from anxiety by identifying with and fully assuming male roles. So, with whom did these women truly identify? Historical and current literature and research on female homosexuality commonly suggests that many women with SSA identified with their fathers as opposed to their mothers. Now these women certainly modeled themselves after boys and men but Janelle Hallman says that she questions to what extent they actually emotionally  identified with them. The mirroring process of identification builds on a foundation of secure attachment and admiration and mutual respect. That's how we identify with a specific individual. Now, even when we talk about those girls in particular, even though they were close to their dads, but they rarely experienced their dad's warmth and his respect based on their own true selves. As we said, and in many cases where a girl would say, I identified more with my dad, she does so out of necessity, perhaps because she was looking for a sense of power or safety in an effort to kind of overcome any helplessness or anxiety that she feels with her mother. So those are all defenses, and they are desperate attempts to survive and they cannot be interpreted in a sense of this is genuine identification. If a girl defensively identifies with the father or the masculine as a means of surviving and and protecting her own sense of self, the sexual differentiation process will be confounded. It's well established that fathers have a very important role in boy, in both the boys and the girls, developing notions of maleness and femaleness and their general gender identity. As we remember again in episode seven, we said that a boy's secure attachment with the dad provides the support that he needs for his own sexual differentiation with the mom and a girl's secure attachment with the dad provides her support for her sexual differentiation with the dad. Whether or not a girl is also actively dis-identifying or detaching from her own femaleness, which we said it happens, the lack of sexual differentiation with her dad may prevent her from accepting her body or her gender identity as female. Many women with SSA had a deep sense of inferiority and the belief that something was intrinsically wrong with them in terms of their femaleness, possibly as early as the age of three or four years. Some research has shown that there are several common factors within the lives and families of girls with a gender identity disorder that parallel those in the lives and families of many women with same sex attractions, for example, insecure attachment patterns or parental difficulty with affect regulation and emotions. There might be maternal depression or lack of availability of the mom. There might be this perceived rigid gender roles and parental conflicts. Also there, there are heightened sensitivities to the parental affect and the need for help, in addition to difficulties in forming emotional connections with the mother or having gender nonconforming interests, as well as identifying with the "aggressor" who is usually the dad. In this case, although it's very important to know that not all women with same sex attraction struggle with profound gender confusion, they usually have an underlying discomfort and insecurity or distorted perception of femininity. Now, in the current cultural contexts, that we are in there is a trend to kind of minimize or ignore altogether, the reality of gender now, nowadays, right, as if we we're truly non gendered or androgynous beings. Nowadays, images of the male and the female are becoming clouded with mixed across gender images and personas, which means that young women, some of whom are already struggling to identify with the mother and differentiate from the father they're encouraged to see all of these gendered, imaged or rather, non gendered images as something that is legitimate and something that is viable. So so in other words, if a woman is really struggling with her gender identity, and nowadays we get all of these mixed messages and the blurring of the gender lines, then she kind of feels that okay, well, maybe I belong there to the idea that I'm gender non conforming, let's say, and this becomes her identity and she embraces that. So it's very important to know the role that the culture plays. And this cultural ambiguity is unfortunately, causing so many problems. And it's causing a lot of confusion in the generation of young women and men as well as they develop sexually.  

Waheed:   52:04
Now let's talk about trauma and sexual abuse. Um, now it's very important to know that trauma and sexual abuse do not directly cause female SSA. Some women with SSA have a history of childhood sexual abuse. Some do not. Yet many women still struggle with trust and low self esteem and shame and mood disorders and identity and intimacy issues. And these are all common symptoms of sexual abuse. And this also applies to men with that SSA. As we said previously in episode number eight, not everyone who was sexually abused as a child ends up developing same sex attractions But there are high percentages of men and women who have SSA, who in their personal histories and their lives, have endured childhood sexual abuse. Doctor Colin Ross, who is a trauma specialist, remarks that it is possible for a person to grow up in an average family with neither physical neglect nor physical or sexual abuse, and yet still bear the symptom profile of trauma such as depression, anxiety, post traumatic stress disorder, somatic symptoms or relationship difficulties and disturbances of the self. He challenges the prevailing definition of trauma in the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, the DSM manual, and Ross explains that trauma can be subtle or it can't stretch the boundaries of the term. Harsh criticism, for example, emotional absence, punitive perfectionism and other parental pressures are not usually thought of as trauma, but they can be certainly traumatic, and they have can have a traumatic impact on development. He notes that for many patients who present with multiple clinical diagnoses, most fundamental are the errors of omission by the parents and not the errors of commission. What this means is that the deeper trauma is the absence of normal love and affection and attention and care and protection. It's not that the trauma might actually be inflicted, but the trauma is in the absence of the important things that we need. Those important emotions that we require so, and the trauma sometimes is not being special to Mom and Dad. Ross concludes that the truest kind of trauma is the disruption of a child's attachment systems. It's understandable why so many women with SSA may suffer the effects of severe trauma because they have this experience of insecure attachments and that the fact that they had dysfunctional family roles right? And the same also applies for men with same sex attractions, in this context. Now again, of course, many women with SSA do recall and report classic childhood trauma and sexual abuse. Several studies have shown that the prevalence rates of sexual abuse are higher among lesbian populations, and it goes between 30-56% even higher in other studies, one compared to women in the general population, which goes between 15 to 32%, in some studies. Many studies have shown that women with childhood sexual abuse are more likely to have adult homosexual experiences than women without childhood sexual abuse. Women with SSA who are victims of sexual abuse report a variety of experiences, and these range from either rape or paternal or maternal incest and abuse by another family member be that a male or female to one or two abusive memories involving boys close to their same age. Perhaps because of their deep sensitivity and their insecure gender identity that is there even a single violation often clenched their self hatred as a girl. They started hating themselves even further, and it's secured their conviction in their mind that all boys and therefore men, are pigs. They're disgusting, for some of these women. So it was this particular context of abuse and how the trauma was processed, and either the presence or the lack of any mediating factors such as supportive parents or any interventions that were, you know, done at that point to kind of help the girl navigate all of that. That seemed to kind of determine the nature and the intensity of the negative effects of this abuse on the woman herself. The girl, who regularly played with boys, often becomes target for their male friends childish curiosities and not so innocent overt sexual experimentation. We've heard so many stories about, um, you know, boys, forcing a girl who always plays with them to kind of, you know, undress. Or they were experimenting with her against her will right? Some girls were not allowed to even lock their bedroom or their bathroom doors when they would use the bathroom. They were regularly confronted with male nudity within her own household. Or they were, you know, the girls were required to kind of hug or give back rubs to their parents, even if they did not want to do that. Many women with SSA have openly admitted to knowing they prefer women to men because they have had enough of  the man's disgusting and their overwhelming sexual nature, right? Many women with SSA also suffered the direct impact of what is classically defined as trauma and verbal, emotional or physical abuse. So these are very important to take into account. So the girl, as a result of all of this, she took in a deep sense of shame and and badness, so to speak, and families that are characterized by chaos and violence in this case, the woman with SSA would feel that they're the only ones trying to stop the insanity. But regardless of the nature of the abuse, a girl's life and reality as she know it will never be the same once she is sexually abused or traumatized. Typical of many children facing abuse or trauma, these girls dealt with the physical and emotional and psychological wreckage of their lives all alone. And this fueled their independent personas. And finally, a lot of them eventually reached a point where they started questioning God and they became distrustful of God. And they had a lot of misperceptions of His character and His care.  

Waheed:   59:00
Let's talk a little bit about peer relations. Women with SSA report lower levels of social involvement and fewer close girlfriends during great school years than other women. Many of these women knew that they did not fit in with other girls. Some of them say that that was completely fine. They didn't want to do you know, the stupid girls stuff anyway. But they're defensiveness kind of betrays deep loss and pain. They often felt helpless because they couldn't figure out why they felt so different or why they couldn't make or keep friends. Many recount multiple instances where they were intentionally ostracized betrayed or teased by other girls. They, many of them, lapse into depression as well as feeling unknown, insecure, entirely ineffective in terms of finding and sustaining relationships. And so this fed their negative self image and growing lack of self esteem, especially given how significantly a sense of relational competence contributes to positive self esteem in developing females. What little self esteem those girls had came from probably an external achievement or performance that they experienced rather than from their own successes in their relationships. Even though those women as girls, they were bored by what the girls were talking about or typically doing, they still felt that sense of loss of kind of never belonging. A sense of inclusion is very important for girls ability to receive and to integrate her own feminine identity. Again, when they became adolescent, those girls were - they didn't want to kind of wear makeup or wear high heels, and they necessarily didn't want to be whatever, you know, identified them with girls. But they still had a feeling of being on the outside and they're looking in. They're missing out on the important stage of gender socialization or learning how those girls played, where they conversed, or what have you. And and there is a need during childhood or adolescence to have a female friend, not to mention there is a need for that feeling of home with mom or home in my own self. And all of this, those needs that are unmet that kind of caused the girl to go into a sense of desperation, right? So which meant that they would be friends with just about anybody who was available and later in adolescence, many of those friendships began to show signs of what possessiveness and growing dependency, and we will talk about this inshaAllah later in this episode. If we kind of take all of what we've said into kind into account, so um, she's she's missing that home with the father. She's not attached to the mom, and she's also kind of not attuned with the father. On the other hand, she doesn't have those female friendships, and she's even confused about her own self for their own femininity, her own femaleness and and she has fears of males, in addition to that. So all of these variables combined together now, it wouldn't be surprising to note that she would be restless, and she would long for what she needs in this case. Now, what would become the object of the girl's affection? In this case? Many of them become affectionate and then kind of, you know, they they show interest in older women, schoolteachers or maybe the popular and pretty girls at school. Or maybe mothers of girls her age, right? Those become the object of the girl's attention and affection. They appear to kind of fill or resolve her inner and relational deficits and confusions. Many women with SSA admit that often as early as four or five years of age, they either admired or they daydreamed about a special women or a girl. They wanted to spend time with them and to be noticed and to be liked and loved. Those relationships that they kind of fantasized were certainly unconscious attempts to mirror and to identify with a female. A girl may also begin to rely on her masculinized identity in order to win the affections of another girl with whom she longs to be close. Many researchers know that it is still common for an adolescent girl to consider her mother to be the most important person in her life, and even later in adolescence, that urge that desire to kind of connect more with the mother grows and becomes more apparent, and they need to have a father is also very important throughout her developmental stages, even in adolescence. And having a continuous close relationship with the father is a very important contributor to another adolescent daughters sense of well being. Now the problem is that many of the women with SSA continue to experience emotional distance in their relationships with their mothers and their own fathers. This does not necessarily mean again that the mother or the father were not loving or they were not available. It may instead mean that the girl herself was very defensive, very detached, dis-identified, and this prevented her from opening up to her parents love. Some of the parents that Janelle Hallman reports that she has spoken to, they always attempted to kind of repair a healthy connection with their daughters with SSA, particularly when they were adolescent, but the parents found themselves where, no matter what we try, we keep on failing. There is a sense of neediness in their daughter, either kind of demanding a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of energy from them. Or there is extreme hypersensitivity to any mistake, such that any mistake that is done by the parents is just, you know, a complete attack on the girl. That is how she perceives it. Sometimes one minute she might be too clingy and might be very attached to the mother. She would love her and call her mommy, and she might want to cuddle and hug all the time. And in the next minute, she is yelling and accusing her mother of, not caring for her, and that she is hopeless and helpless. Many parents said it's not just like we're walking on eggshells, but we're actually tiptoeing on those eggshells. It's very volatile, it's very unpredictable and it basically it's very deflating and demoralizing. And many of those women with SSA, particularly in their adolescent and early adulthood years they have this desire to be noticed and genuinely liked and appreciated by a male, but they were not just interested in any male. They saw most of their girlfriends kind of maybe chasing after guys who appeared to be self-centered and immature, who maybe just interested in sex or whatever. Women with SSA lot of them wanted to kind of find an intelligent and a caring and a respectful young man, and they wanted to build an emotional relationship with that man to get to know that person on a deep level. But many of them were severely disappointed or betrayed or even violated. Many of these younger women describe a lot of negative experiences and attitudes towards those young men. Some of them were heartbroken by their first love. Maybe to the point that they were inconsolable, often becoming depressed and hopeless about life. All in all, and some of those women, they may have been abused by that friend. And because they hear a lot of stories about men nowadays adolescent males or, you know, boys in general, they become more and more detached from that, and they're just not interested in and maybe pursuing a relationship and therefore what they do, as a result, they pour themselves into female friendships or academics or extracurricular activities. But they still harbor some sense of an ambivalence towards young men.   

Waheed:   1:7:42
Now what about the body and the body image? Um, by the time that they reach puberty, many of these girls are neither expecting nor prepared for what is going to happen to their bodies. They may still be hanging out with boys trying to mirror Dad in their behaviors. Um, they're completely disinterested in anything that has to do with femininity. Now, if they subconsciously fear Dad or if they fear men in general, they may also fear sexuality and their own sexual development. So by the time that puberty hits, a lot of them are shocked and devastated when they start their periods when they notice that their breasts are growing. Some of them report that when they go through adolescence and even sometimes in adulthood, they were completely turned off by the idea of being intimate with boys and embarrassed by any sexual talk or overtly sexual behavior with the opposite sex. Many were more interested in sports and academics than any type of romance and all of these fears and their interests and focuses were kind of completely the opposite of those of their female peers who were beginning to explore the opposite sex and, you know, have relationships, maybe get engaged and get married. This is not for the women with SSA she felt kind of distant, and that didn't make any sense to her. Now, at this point if the girl hadn't felt different already, she would have felt so by this stage. In addition to that, it's very important to note, as we said, you know, in previous episodes there is this focus nowadays, with media and culture and society on this ideal female image, right? This tall, thin, beautiful, attractive woman. Looking at that idealized image, the woman herself would feel defective and defeated because I can never match that. Not only do they lack the body type and the genetic traits to kind of mimic that image and you know, as do most women anyway, but they may be too self conscious and ashamed about their bodies, and many of them would continue to have this tomboyish look or would select a specific kind of clothing that would be androgynous during other adolescence for example, maybe true sorts of clothing that would hide their developing female form, because many of these women again, as we said at the beginning, they value human dignity and justice and equality. They understand that sexual objectification of women damages not only women but our larger culture as well. And they tend to view any women who kind of cooperates with the fashion trends and whatever is portrayed by the culture as great and attractive, they tend to view these women with a kind of disdain, even as they believe something is intrinsically wrong with themselves. Most of these women who were able to integrate an external feminine style in their youth they still disqualified themselves, believing that they were ugly, that they could never look or act like a real girl, or that a nice guy would never find them attractive. They often carried this sense of being disqualified into their own adulthood. Besides feeling ugly, many of these women navigate their social networks with the hidden beliefs that they were an embarrassment, that they were an outcast, that they were a misfit, that they were stupid, worthless or even bad, for example.  

Waheed:   1:11:43
Now what about their relationships with women during late adolescence or young adulthood. Many of the women with SSA would meet another female with whom they felt an immediate connection. Typically, both women had similar histories and outlooks on life. Both were strong, intellectually or athletically and confident in their achievements and performance. Yet they still doubted their own value. Neither had a solid sense of self, but when they met, there was often an instantaneous and shocking moment of recognition. They saw themselves in each other's eyes, and as they mirrored each other, they felt known and understood in ways that they had never formally experienced. Almost immediately and simultaneously, they loved and felt loved. They accepted and felt accepted, perhaps for the first time in their life, something released and relaxed within each young woman as she realized she is like me. So I must be okay. These young women finally found what they describe as home and describes it. Not all female same sex relationships form in such an immediate or explosive fashion of course, but most are still established on a sensed basis of trust that the woman feels safe, that there is respect. She is admirable. There is a sense of affirmation she feels special. These deeply affectionate connections between two lonely young women would ignite the human desire for closeness, including physical closeness. Now, decades ago, two women may have taken a long time before they would have taken the next step into becoming physically intimate. But in our time and age, nowadays, children and young adults are encouraged to explore all forms of physical affection and sexual intimacy. And, you know, sensualized and even sexualized touch between friends of either the same or opposite sex no longer carries any stigma or problem, even though it may still carry psychological and emotional implications. And it's very important to note this as we know that having a sense of affectionate touch, even if it has nothing to do with sexual arousal, affection in touch is a very important, you know, medium to to feel a sense of attachment and to provide affirmation of one's own self and body. Now, between two women who kind of share many of the of the qualities I have been talking about, it typically results in a powerful and natural feeling of well being. Having felt such pleasure and comfort, they may start to think that it is very foolish to deny themselves the closeness for which they hunger. Now, if a woman experiences this sort of "electricity" of this female-female connection during the same time period that she experiences any kind of distress or difficulty in her male relationships, or she starts to kind of see the male as something disgusting or foreign. What follows is that she starts to, you know, if if there's any sexual pleasure with a woman, she starts to kind of see that as more relational. Not to mention that if there is any pleasure in that same sex closeness or sensuality, and that is repeated over time then that pattern becomes a great force into reinforcing with the same sex preference and the orientation. So the initial same sex experience for women and can be one of the factors that might eventually cause her to adopt the same sex orientation or identity. In fact, it may take one same sex experience for a young woman to fully embrace and even publicly owned this "lesbian" identity, especially given nowadays where such identities of either being homosexual or bisexual and being accepted and raised, these are becoming more popular amongst the younger generations. And even if you think about it, in terms of a young woman who really wants to kind of separate and differentiate from her parents or their values or who is looking for her own core identity, we can see how becoming a "lesbian" might unconsciously appear to meet all of these goals. However, for many of these young women who struggled with, especially for those who want to remain true to their religious values, those early experiences are not welcome. They often create a lot of turbulence during the confusing time of sexual development and identity consolidation. They are shocked by their behavior. They might feel deeply disturbed and ashamed of themselves because they fear judgement and rejection. Many of these young women, they hide their same sex experiences and and their same sex feelings, and this further adds to their sense of isolation. Yet as shocking or shaming as it might be, their first experience maybe so compelling that they will do whatever it takes to hold on to that particular relationship, even if it means that they must lie or deny their basic needs or even compromise moral values. It's very important to know that such relationships are very, very powerful. If if we look at it as you know, the heart of female SSA being this unconscious or symbolic search for the mother for that secure attachment for that sense of self, to be special, to be feminine, to feel safe, to be fun, a woman with SSA is often drawn to another women whom she admires for her beauty and strength and sense of purpose or other positive attributes. By becoming close to and identifying with this woman, she kind of gains this sense of her own special-ness and femininity. Now the problem is many of these legitimate needs are now intertwined in a very confusing way with those romantic and sexual longings. For a woman to kind of change her same sex behaviors or relationships, she will need to carefully kind of disentangle those longings and fears and developmental issues from the sexual desire. And this is not easy. Sexual desire is wonderful and it's a legitimate force in a woman's life. But it is misdirected if the underlying drive for these desires they come out of the primal need for having that mother figure or for finding her own self. Many women with SSA, unfortunately, have been harmed by many professionals and counsellors who might assume that nothing good can ever come out of a homosexual relationship. Now there are inherent difficulties, and we realize that, you know, having these relationships, they go against the values and everything that we try to stand for. But when we kind of dissect these relationships, women with SSA find authentic friendship, genuine affection and even a sense of family in these relationships. Such relationships may be providing the closest thing to intimacy and acceptance and tenderness and love that the woman may have ever experienced. Within such relationships it's important for us to realize that a woman may have discovered her first best friend. She may be genuinely liked and enjoyed and felt that she is known and accepted for who she truly is. She may have been taken care of physically and financially. For the first time in her life, she may have grown and developed relation-ally and in self understanding, and experienced a genuine growth in her self esteem. She may have learned about feminine things from her friend. She may have gained a sense of family for the first time, right? She may have been able to develop meaningful relationships with, maybe you know, her friends siblings or her friends children, for example. She may have been able to build a community of mutual friends, and she may even have been able to develop a deeper relationship with God. Unfortunately, when some women with SSA look to another women or her connections to kind of survive or to adapt to those unresolved childhood deficits and traumas, this woman can inadvertently become extremely emotionally dependent on that friend and to block or negate her own autonomous growth and healing process. Emotional dependency has been kind of described in so many ways. One of them is that there is a need to kind of to always be present and nurturing of another. And that is the way that you know that it's seen as necessary for personal security. I need to always be present and kind of taking care of another person, and that is the only way that I feel secure. Um, and that nurturing can be seeing as attentiveness, or maybe listening to someone else, constantly admiring them, counseling them, affirming them, spending time together. It takes on many shapes. Dependency could also be seen as completely relying on another woman for safety and functioning. When a woman is emotionally dependent, she feels as though she literally cannot exist without the object of her dependency, as has been described by some professionals. What is a healthy form of dependency? It is healthy and in relationships when you know both parties can mutually rely on one another when their own resources are not enough to kind of face, a specific need or circumstances. In healthy relationships, a woman is not consciously or unconsciously consumed with her own needs, but she feels kind of established and secure and she can tend, and be tended to in a satisfying mutual association. On the other hand, emotional dependency it kind of takes on the flavor of a childhood attachment. You know, as we know, that attachment is kind of, you know, that emotional connection where the presence of the other person becomes my sense of well being, my security right? I need that too feel gratified. While we all need that kind of sense of secure attachment throughout our lives. But when we are secure as adults, we are not driven by our primal attachment needs. Many women with SSA are not able to kind of exert that healthy adult mutuality and reliance. They remain subject to the pressures and influences of their unresolved attachment, and dependency needs and differentiation processes. As one might imagine, those two forces, which is the need to attach and then the opposite opposing, need to kind of separate and differentiate. These create a lot of chaos and confusion in the mind of a woman, not to mention those deep, inherent relational instabilities. Some people might be wondering, okay, well, there is a big contrast between a woman who is well developed and strong and competent, externally or in public. But she also seems to be fragile on the inside. She appears to have, you know, and when she is alone, she kind of feels broken or weak, right? It's as if these women have two selves right? The outer self is kind of competent, composed, strong, self sufficient, she's intelligent, she's gifted, she's productive, she's achievement oriented, but the inner self is kind of insecure, needy, ashamed, lonely, weak, dependent, feeling inadequate, worth-less afraid and so on. There is this kind of split, and this split has been documented in literature on female homosexuality. And it is exactly this split in this outer self versus the inner self that creates a severe vulnerability in these women. That inner self, which is weak and fragile. She's the little girl on the inside. That little girl is screaming to be known and to be loved. And it is often another woman, one who exhibits strength that woman is going to recognize and to appreciate the tenderness within that woman within her. When she finally feels "I am seen and I am known in my entirety" - when she feels seen and accepted and known in her entirety, she starts to feel like as if she's whole right? Any of these negative self images and feelings will start to dissolve as she opens herself to another one who cares, she feels this overwhelming sense of well being filled with a sense of self worth and self esteem. She feels integrated, but only through what? This loving gaze of another woman. Unfortunately, this doesn't resolve those negative feelings or self images. And this doesn't help, you know, integrate with her previously hidden and weak and frightened and vulnerable self. It is only through the connection with that partner and the attention that that partner provides, that she feels relief and a subjective sense of value and change. Without that other person, without that other woman, she would be back to her old self that she hates. And so what happens is that a woman can easily find herself sliding into this consuming and enmeshed and desperately dependent relationship with her partner. And it is this collapsed oneness, as they describe it. There is a merger of two little girl selves that characterizes many emotionally dependent female same sex relationships.  

Waheed:   1:27:25
There are 12 characteristics of emotional dependency that Janelle Hallman describes. There's this kind of fusion or a merger right that is observed in those those relationships of lesbian couples that is not seen in the relationships of gay men or heterosexual couples. This is very common in lesbian relationships. So what are those 12 most common characteristics of emotionally dependent same sex relationships? Number one. The relationship forms very quickly or very intensely, and it is often based on idealization. Sometimes all it takes to start a relationship is just a glance of recognition. But unfortunately, this is not so much a recognition of the unique identity of other person. As we said, it's a recognition of this cry from the inside this identity struggle that is seen in that other women. But nevertheless, a woman will experience this as finding her true self. Number two. The relationship is about connection, not sex. This is very important to realize. Rarely do these women focus on sex or become addicted to sexual behavior. And contrast this with the relationships of men who have same sex attractions, which are primarily focused on the sexual drives, right? Now, in with women in terms of physical behavior, many of them express much more of a desire to be held and to be embraced than to actually reach orgasm. Touch is a very important bonding behavior. And when it is found in that relationship, not only will it strengthen that relationship, but it will also cement the attachment and the emotional dependency between those two women. Number three. The relationship demands constant connection. As long as the women's partner is emotionally engaged and connected, she knows she exists, and she has value. But if that connection is broken, she may spiral into a separation anxiety that exposes her inner nothingness and worthlessness. Many women actually fear extinction or even death. Number four. The relationship foster's enmeshment and loss of self as we said. So sadly, there is an ironic dynamic that begins to emerge within this bond. A woman looks to another woman in order to get a sense of self or a sense of well being. But at the same time, when she does that, she actually loses the very thing that she hopes to gain, which is her sense of self. Number five. The relationship requires exclusivity. However, we know that a relationship is not balanced or healthy if it is the only relationship that a woman has. Healthy friendship occurs within the context of a broader, nurturing community with many people. But unfortunately, in a lot of these "lesbian" relationships, they're very exclusive to the point of cutting relationships with other people. Number six. The relationship is care taking. Taking care of a needy woman can be highly sexually charged for many women who have historically assumed the role of a caretaker. Again, we go back to the childhood. Many of those women have assumed the role of the caretaker taking care of the mother, right? So this relationship is based on taking care of one another. Number seven. The relationship is quite ambivalent. So at some point a woman may sense that this merged quality of her relationship is kind of a threat to her existence or individuality. She feels choked by the other person. She feels smothered, suffocated. That's just too much. I feel I'm locked in, and many of them operate even early on in the relationship on the basis that this relationship is not gonna be stable. They have that feeling inside of them right that this relationship is gonna be rejecting. Unpredictable. Many women rely on their early defenses and detachment and their old survival patterns. Number eight. The relationship leads to feelings of jealousy and possessiveness. Sometimes anxiety keeps on increasing, increasing and reaches panic proportions. There's a lot of obsessiveness involved. Number nine. The relationship is dramatic. If the woman is the object of her partners scrutiny and possessive measures, she will start implementing distancing tactics she simply needs room to breathe. As we said, you know, she feels suffocated and smothered by this relationship. So as she starts to breathe, the partner may may go into a state of panic or separation anxiety. A woman would go into extremely desperate measures to hold onto, but at the same time push away. She may activate a range of defensive efforts such as seduction, manipulation, deceit, coercion over attunement or suspicion to kind of stay away from any anxiety and fear. She may insist that her partner should explain in detail why they are unavailable or unwilling to offer the care and love that they had originally promised. The relationship might become pathologically controlling, threatening, verbally abusive, physically violent. Even a woman may say that she wants closeness, but she might throw a tantrum. And her friend she's trapped in a state of terror. She might even threaten suicide. Number 10. The relationship is resistant to breakup. Even when both women feel abused and used by each other, they may still be unable to end the relationship because they may have projected their own fears of abandonment and inner frailty onto their partners. They become consumed with care taking, making sure that their partner doesn't feel abandoned or hurt and doesn't fall apart. So they start to renew the vow to this relationship that they have, promising to take care of the other person. But in reality, they are trying to take care of themselves. Number 11. The relationship has a tragic ending. Unfortunately, regardless how that ending is declared, it is possible that both women may feel that the ending is coming soon, right? During this time, a lot of physiological responses start being apparent like sleeping and eating cycles may become disrupted. Some of them experienced panic attacks, major depressive episodes, even suicidal ideations. Because the woman and you know, she she starts realizing that she is losing her "home." She must now return to that state of "homelessness" that she was dealing with before and number 12. The last point is that the relationship is part of an endless cycle. Every time one of her relationships ends, a woman with SSA may perceive the loss as being her own fault. She internalizes the belief that she is incompetent. She is unlovable. Her sense of trust in herself and in others starts to shatter. Most women really cannot tolerate this weight of shame and disappointment, and since many of them don't have the resources to kind of recover from such a devastation. What do they do? They merge with another woman. They start to look for love and support and security in order to face another day. And they have another relationship with another woman. And the cycle repeats itself. Hallman says, as I walk with a woman who is attempting to end or redefine a same sex relationship, I must be sensitive to both the difficulty of this decision and the woman's ability to follow through. She will need me to be patient and compassionate. She will also need to be reassured that God is present and working on her behalf. Rare is the woman who can end an emotionally dependent relationship overnight. Rather, this will be a lengthy process in which she reclaims piece by piece, her heart and her soul, which have been housed or deposited in the other woman. She must salvage the threads of her true self and remit them around new perceptions, impressions and beliefs that arise out of a corrective experience of love, support and acceptance.  

Waheed:   1:36:32
Janelle Hallman describes four profiles of women in her book, and she says, even though each woman she meets is unique and special, but over the years she observed certain diagnostic and behavioral or personality patterns among women with same sex attractions, and she started to kind of conceptualize those four different profiles in order to understand and to kind of establish treatment guidelines and goals. Now, the four common profiles they're distinct in their presentations and the diagnostic categories that the styles in which they attach, the defensive mechanisms, the personality attributes etcetera. It's very important to note that many women may identify with one profile over another, but they might see themselves in, you know, uh, each of each of the other profiles as well. These profiles may overlap in some cases, and the needs and the treatment suggestions for all the four profiles will benefit every women in due time. She says that also, the profiles are rigid categories, but women are not rigid, so we are all dynamic humans and this must be taken into account. And for every profile, she kind of breaks down the developmental issues that clinical symptoms, the patterns, therapeutic techniques and goals and these are beyond the scope of this episode, many of these concepts are very professional. But what we will do is kind of talk about these four profiles very briefly. So the first profile is what she calls the "empty, depressed, withdrawn and isolated". So she describes these women as having profound developmental deficits that arise out of perceived and actual emotional absence or neglect. The basic physical needs were met, but those women internalized the message that their existence was an inconvenience and a burden. Their lives are severely empty and lonely. They may have a few friends, but the friendships lack mutuality. They feel more attached to objects or animals than to people. They are uncomfortable in their own skin, and they know that they are not "normal", at least in social settings. They may show marked inability to follow standard social cueing or comprehend, let alone articulate inner emotional or psychological dynamics. They are often overweight, and they tend to be unremarkable in appearance. Those women live life robotically, so to speak, they are often without meaning, a sense of purpose or any heartfelt connection. They are numb. Some perform better than others, but this is the basis of their existence. It's like in doing things, following the rules and taking the next step. Yet they are often incredible writers, poets and artists. They have well developed imaginations and secret fantasy worlds. The therapist may be the first person to see their true self and phenomenal gifting, as she says, the therapist may also be the first person to call them out into a real tangible human connection. Profile number two is the "tough, angry, sarcastic and barricaded", as she says. These women often have the worst histories of trauma and abuse, frequently involving severe physical or emotional abandonment, although that's not always the case. For some of them, the environments in which they were raised were not hostile, but the women nevertheless sensed and were negatively affected by the underlying dysfunctions within the family. Both groups of women carry a deep belief that the world is not safe. They have relied on toughness in this case, compared to the sense of deadness that is found in profile one - in profile two they're more tough in order to protect their hearts. They're often disillusioned to discover that their method of survival, which is being very, very defensive, it actually starves them from intimacy. Unlike profile one, women in profile two feel their inner agony and therefore aggressively and continuously cut off all of their vulnerabilities. They work hard, but they're demanding. They are impatient, but they're also deeply committed. If they decide that you are safe, they will do anything in the world for you. They have an endless ability to care and take care of others, all the while denying their own needs. They view the world as black and white, people are all good or all bad. They are hyper-vigilant. They know if people get it or don't, and they have great contempt for those who don't. They are completely honest, blunt and direct. They are smart, they're determined to survive, but yet they can be explosive, ill-tempered and sometimes downright difficult, as often seeing in their loud and violent same-sex relationships. There is deep relational ambivalence within them. They are often masculinized in their dress and their appearance, and they display masculinized gestures and body postures as well. Profile number three, the "energetic, care-taking, drama-oriented and 'never home'". Even though these women are less likely to have traditional trauma or neglect and their backgrounds as compared to women in profiles one and two, they still suffer from severe, subtle and negative relational dynamics such as familial enmeshment, or rigid gender roles within their families of origin. Due to their sensitivities and perhaps their deeper relational needs, they felt that they were neither acknowledged nor affirmed as special, particularly as a girl. Although they felt close and loved, they also felt obligated to support or take care of other family members, including Mom and Dad. Nevertheless, their basic needs were usually met, and they experienced the greatest level of stability among the four profiles. They are active, often athletic and typically overachieving women. Their outstanding features are their busyness and their seeming addiction to relational drama. They are rarely "home", so to speak, literally and metaphorically. They rarely take quiet time, and they rarely reflect on how they are feeling by writing or by journaling. Actually, they aren't aware of feeling anything. In fact, they may miss the normal physical or emotional cues associated with exhaustion, illness, sadness or the beginning of depression, for example. If they become overwhelmed by any of these feelings, life will turn into an event rather than a quiet place of recovery and rest. There is never a dull moment in their lives or their therapy. They are openly appreciative, and they're more demonstrative, especially in terms of warmth and affection than the women in other profiles. Nevertheless, they still need to be constantly challenged on their tendency to escape their own hearts. They wear sporty and sometimes basic feminine clothing. And then profile number four, which is the last one, which she calls the "pragmatic, perfectionistic, distant and smugly self-assured". Women in this profile have various backgrounds, but they typically compensate for their losses and defend against their pain by avoiding all vulnerability and identifying with their ability to pursue excellence and success. They're often the movers and the shakers within their field of expertise, and they find their kudos through achievement. They're very intelligent, extremely gifted, but because they're often so accomplished, they are also arrogant and contemptuous of others, especially men. They may unconsciously use others to serve their own purpose or meet their own needs. They're excellent communicators, and they're committed to their beliefs. The enjoy a good debate, whether their hard knowledge often betrays their lack of actual experience in life and love. It is difficult for them to admit that they have need. They maintain a veneer of control and management within their social settings and their intimate relationships. As clients, they're often stubborn, silently musing. They often say, "I don't buy that. I'm not going to do that." And they don't. Rather than use the defensive toughness to mask their deep insecurities and inferiorities, as in profile number two, those women in profile four, they put on the persona of superiority and dominance. They have a severe split between the little girl and the successful adult persona. In the public life, they are competent, confident and strong. But in their private life, they feel empty and desperately alone. Within their emotionally-dependent relationships, they unconsciously live out of the neediness and desperation of their little girl, often displaying severe, borderline-like tendencies. They rarely feel known or cherished apart from these relationships.  

Waheed:   1:46:44
Now, in the last part of this episode, I will touch upon the four stages of therapy that Janelle Hallman outlines in her book. She says that therapy with women with SSA can be broken down into four stages: formation, transformation, integration, and consolidation and maturity. For each stage, Janelle goes into extensive details on how to navigate these from a personal and professional perspective and these are beyond the scope of this episode again. I encourage everyone interested in this topic to read the book. What I will do is to briefly address the four stages for us to kind of understand how the process goes. And in the next two episodes, inshaAllah, many of these concepts will be covered. So the first stage of therapy she calls it "formation". So, as we said, many of these women with SSA have this unstable, underdeveloped, negative core sense of self. This means that they feel a lot of insecurity, emptiness and shame. They long to be touched and embraced by another woman. You know, they want to be kind of validated and to feel that they have a sense of self. And so the woman with SSA faces this dilemma: without a stable and defined sense of self, I cannot connect or relate in ways a healthy woman can do. Without a secure attachment or a healthy connection, I cannot establish a stable core self. Without finding a solution to that, a woman with SSA usually survives in this empty world, in this empty self, and she seeks to find "home" in another person. She will be driven into relationships that become emotionally dependent, and so that need becomes to attach and to discover and to accept and to solidify myself within that attachment with the other person. So, the first stage of therapy, according to Hallman, is to kind of offer an experience of consistent emotional attunement, a state of unconditional acceptance, genuine care, containment, all within a secure attachment, so that the woman with SSA would begin to grow. She would feel embraced, and she would start to heal and complete the work of inner formation that she needs. Here comes the rule of a salient female therapist. It's very important for the woman to kind of find that basic sense of trust, to feel loved and to start to cultivate that unique personhood. This relationship with a therapist is very important because it gives the woman the opportunity to learn new ways of living and relating, to integrate healthier inner constructs and beliefs and emotional patterns and styles of relating to other people. As in the childhood years, she needs an external home in which she feels safe enough to become. The second stage of therapy is "transformation". So in this stage, the woman begins to transform and to exchange her dismissive and self-protective posturing for new capabilities and competencies related to healthy and meaningful intimacy. This means that she discovers and connects with and integrates her true self. And then she equips that true self with the ability to authentically and mutually connect with others. So what is usually done in this phase is cognitive behavioral therapy, communication skills, learning life skills, and also dealing with the desires and the sexual attractions, and how to navigate all of that with behavioral modification techniques. Stage three of therapy is called "integration". So as the woman moves through the stages of therapy, what happens is that she would find herself going deeper and deeper into the unconscious self. And for many women, this becomes very tedious, very scary. To eventually be able to overcome the desperation that fuels these emotionally-dependent relationships, a woman will need to acknowledge and own and integrate her inner realities and the sometimes paradoxical sides of her true self. The woman who goes deep into her dark parts will experience the most satisfying and profound changes. So in this stage, mainly there is dealing with all of these defense mechanisms, those projections, and there's a lot of processing that has done, a lot of grief work, and finally trying to find her feminine self. And in the last stage of therapy, it's called "consolidation and maturity", the woman continues this journey, she may want to consolidate her newfound identities and relational capacities around a new understanding and appreciation of men. So she might want to join group therapy or to actually work with a male therapist, that might be very helpful at this stage. However, it's very important for the woman to establish herself within a safe and unconditionally accepting and loving community of both men and women, because this will act as a bridge between what she was doing in her individual therapy and the consolidation that needs to happen within a broader context of relationships. Once a woman is settled within these communities, she may no longer require the support of professional therapist. But the end of therapy doesn't mean that that's the end of the woman's journey. It's a lifelong journey, as we know, and now that she's more confident in herself, she can go and pursue her dreams and she can start new beginnings. And here, basically she starts exploring the relationship with other men. You know the idea, "Maybe I could get married", or if she wants to stay celibate, how to navigate all of that. Many of these techniques and topics in all of these four stages of therapy, I know that these are very deep and they're very professional, but we will touch upon this, inshaAllah, in detail in the next two episodes. And the next two episodes apply to both men and women, but these are very common to the four stages that we talked about.

Waheed:   1:53:08
And with this we have come to the end of today's episode. It's quite a dense episode, I realize, but as you have seen Many of these concepts are quite common to both men and women who experience same sex attractions. But obviously there are unique and distinct characteristics and categories that apply to females who struggle with same sex attractions in the next episode and shall alone. Mr. Michael Gasparro is joining me from California. Michael is a licensed therapist and clinical psychologist who also works with Dr. Joseph Nicolosi Jr., and we will be talking together about the concept of reparative therapy and reintegrative therapy, how that is different from what is publicly known as conversion therapy. We'll be talking about what is usually done in these kinds of, you know, reparative and reintegrative therapy, mainly cognitive behavioral therapy, grief work, affect-focused therapy, as well as going deep into shame and trauma and how to handle that in the clinical setting. I would like to end this episode with a beautiful quote by the great Helen Keller, who said, "Once I knew only darkness and stillness, my life was without past or future. But a little word from the fingers of another fell into my hand that clutched at emptiness and my heart leaped to the rapture of living". Thank you very much for joining me in today's episode, I look forward to talking to you, inshaAllah, next week. Until then, I hope that you have a wonderful week ahead, and I look forward to talking to your next Friday, inshaAllah. This has been Waheed Jensen in "A Way Beyond the Rainbow", assalamu alaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.