Warning. This episode contains details that some listeners may find disturbing. Continuing the dramatic and mysterious saga of tensegrity, the cult of Carlos Castaneda. Tonight, we finish the tale and discuss the myriad of theories behind the missing witches. This is a study of strange. Welcome back to the show. I am your host, Michael Michael, who leads you into strange mysteries and all sorts of stuff. I never know what to say, Mariah.
But every time I start the show, I'm like, I'm going to say something cool. And then I, I never do, but that's part of my charm, I guess. exactly. So if you listen to part, definitely go listen to part one of this series. So you're caught up in it. I'm not going to do a big recap. Yes, yes. You're not going to get it all. So go back to part one of this series.
And joining me, helping me tell this crazy story of Carlos Castaneda and Tensegrity and the missing witches and everything else, is Mariah clap back, who I've now known for 25 years, 24 years, something like that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. Makes me feel old, but also kind of excited all at the same time. So Mariah and I have both been studying this story of Carlos Castaneda because it is a huge story.
So as I said in part one, if there's anything we did not cover or you want to correct, please email me a study of strange at gmail.com. I've. I've never really done a follow up to an episode before. I have had some where people reach out to correct something or, you know, want to make a note of something, but this is the actual story where I feel like I definitely would do a follow up if I learned something else. So is please reach out.
Or if you're one of the missing witches and you're still alive, I would love to talk to you. Please message me. Yes. Oh, 100% 100% All right, so I want to really recap. but I am going to start again with how I ended the previous episode, which is in the spring of 1973. Carlos Castaneda purchased two adjoining Spanish style bungalows at 1672 Pandora Avenue in Westwood, right near the UCLA campus. There. It's a very pretty street. I've seen videos and pictures.
I've been on Google Maps to be there. I've not driven by it even though I live in L.A. But it's a very pretty street, a pretty place. It still exists. And but it was, you know, it has hedges. It's a little private. You can be private in there. And along with him was three handpicked graduates student proteges Mary Simcoe, Regina Sol and Kathleen Pullman. Yes. Those are the correct three. Right where I got that right off the top of your head. Yeah. Regina. Yes. Okay, great.
So this is when Castaneda started calling them the witches. And their new identities were sealed when Simcoe rechristened herself Tatia or Taisha Abeler. So becomes Florinda or Growl, and Pullman becomes Carol Tiggs and Castaneda in cities that everyone because his his little community here does grow and it becomes way more than just those five missing women.
There are hundreds of people that follow him that are involved with this, and everyone, especially his inner, I would say, his inner followers specifically, who stay at this compound, who stay at the houses in this like dormitory type setup. A lot of them get identical bleached blond haircuts and they live, quote unquote, invisible lives. That's why a lot of them don't have pictures, because they refuse to have pictures taken or shared. And from the outside, the house looked very ordinary.
But, inside it was not. Castaneda claims that he was teaching everybody about the lessons he's learned from Don Juan, the very fake shaman from, from the from the sort of Mexico and southwestern United States. Did you read? Very fake. Like a lot of cults, he's doing the very typical thing of, like, erasing personal history. They're not allowed to talk to families. They're changing their names. They're creating this new belief system.
And if anybody doesn't do it fully, then he loses some control. That's the way I sort of put that. And why cults can be successful. He does preach that there's no drugs, no caffeine, strict low fat diets. He had infused baths and all sorts of stuff, and it also taught no sex. However. Go for it, Mariah. Yes. So as much as abstinence, what's preached that doesn't include these sex rituals. And I kind of read all sorts of different stuff.
So I know I don't have anything super specific, but definitely having sex with Carlos was part of joining and being part of the group and having this ritualistic thing. What did you read about this? So, yeah. So don't worry about it. Because it's not human. There's magical energy exchange here. That's what it's about. One of the things that was weird to me about the sex stuff, though, Come on. You got to think. Yeah, yeah. It's like you're running a cult. Yeah, like.
Come on, have some fun with this. He is. He is by the way, I think he's in his 50s when this is all starting to go down. And most of these women are much younger than him, too. So, I'd just like to. I'd like to point that out. Now, This is going to sound like I'm jumping to. I guess I am going to jump time, but just because I think it makes sense for this story here. in the 90s, and we can go back if I'm missing something here.
But in the 90s, I think that's when he incorporates Clear Green, his company to be in charge of all the publishing rights and for the books. And a lot of the witches are writing books, like you've even talked about some of them in the last one. And they're all part of Clear Green and also part of Clear Green is this thing that they all developed called tensegrity that we've mentioned a lot, which is this aerobic shamanic movement system, and they start teaching it.
So you have to pay to learn it. They go around the world with people overseas that are like teaching this and learning about it, and it becomes this big movement. And there are instructional tapes teaching people to do it. You can find some of the videos on YouTube and. Got it, got it. So how did people get pulled inside of this cult? I think that's a big question. I definitely even have that question. The former member who wrote about it, what is her name again?
Amy. Well, I think it's Amy Wallace that mentions that the witches, quote unquote, would go to lectures and things at college campuses and they're they'd scan the audience for women who they wanted women who are smart because all these women are smart. A lot of them are, you know, there's doctors and whatever. They're not smart, but they look for beautiful women that were also vulnerable.
And then they'd go up to them and they'd essentially, you know, try to convince them to, hey, come over, hang out, like, learn about this, see if you like it. And that's the way they started recruiting more and more members. And again, just because of the New Age movement, people reading the books unaware of its validity or lack thereof, and people going to these tensegrity things, unaware of what it's actually connected to.
And, you know, that's that's another way that people start to get into it. But it is very capitalistic, like they are making money on all these things. Exactly. Yes. Yes. that's a really good point you're making, too, about how the call itself is this small conglomerate. And because I think only about a half dozen people actually lived at the house by the time I like the mid to late 90s. And. Yeah, but there are quote unquote followers of the beliefs and the books and tensegrity going on.
And I do think that's why they kind of lasted for as long as they did, because there is there's a safety net. And also Carlos himself was reclusive, like he wasn't necessarily out there as the face of this. He was a little bit more mysterious himself, and I think that protected him still to this day, because not many people know about the cult of this. That that definitely does protect him a bit.
I do want to talk about tensegrity a bit more, because it is a confusing thing to wrap your head around, and I'm going to read a quote from one of the articles that came across here that says tensegrity is a name given to the modern practice of the warrior travelers path with heart that Don Juan Matus taught his four students Carlos Castaneda, Florinda Downer, growl, Tasha Avila, and Carol Tiggs.
The word tensegrity was coined by an architect, scientist, engineer and global thinker and dreamer who Carlos admired our Buckminster Fuller Fuller described tensegrity as a process of attentional integrity, the inherent interdependence of structures such as cells, bodies, and solar system systems, which are held together by a continuous web of tension. And yeah, did you can you color for us not to put you on the spot? Maria, you look scared.
Is there I don't know the best way to describe the actual, like, movements and what it is like. Tai chi? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely is. It's a little intimidating because of that energy of it. Is there a way to describe what you're like? What is it supposed to be doing to you? What is the sort of shamanic influence on your life? Yeah, I've read it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right.
And that's actually a very common sort of trope about cults itself is they try to create things that are confusing unless you're more involved. That's all the things you need to learn more about this. You got to like come on, come on in, come on in. You learn more. You'll learn the secrets of it. It's like L Ron Hubbard. We create words and language and all sorts of stuff in that. That's part of part of that. maybe it's time to go back to the missing, which is Yeah.
I know you're talking like I am. I can't I can't say anything. Yeah. Imaging which. to bring into the missing, Yes. Yes. Yeah. there is something to that. I hadn't really thought about the way that they all had to look. The same. Tall, blond, short hair, almost boyish, too, which is very interesting, because it's not just the short hair. It's almost like the style of the short hair is more masculine and feminine. There is something to that. Yeah, yeah. Like how much her influence into it and.
Yeah. who's smart. it might be worthwhile then, just to repeat who the witches are. We don't have to do a big thing. But just even if you've been listening to all of this back to back, the names can get confusing. So we have. If I can find my little list here. Doop doop. There's Amelia marquez, aka Talia Bay, Patricia Parton, aka Nora Alexander, Regina Margaret Saul, aka Florinda Donner, ground doctor Marianne Simcoe, aka Tasia Abela, Deanna Alvarez aka Kylie Lundell and Amelia marquez.
Oh, I already said Taliban. So those are the the inner circle, the quote unquote witches of the story. Patricia Parton was found dead in Death Valley. The other four are yet to, there's no conclusion to their stories as of right now. And what happened to them? And we're going to get into why they actually disappeared in just a second. So when we go back to the beginning of these misses, we're missing missing witches. Why is it so hard to stay? She's so the missing witches. Missing witches?
If you say it three times, though, then they show up. I think that's the way to solve this. So all of this starts to happen right before Carlos Castaneda dies in 1998. His will changes. And what's interesting about this is he preaches that like life can continue. He's part magical and that he won't die. He has magic sperm and all these kind of sayings. But in reality, he was really sick in the last handful of years of his life, he was not doing well.
Nothing was actually helping him stay healthy. And he passes away. In 1988. When did he pass away? Over 98. Excuse me, excuse me, 1998. What did he passed away of? Do you remember? That's right. Yeah. That's right. So he dies. His will has just been changed. And about $100,000, I believe, is left to the five witches each. They each get cash, $100,000, plus seemingly royalties from the books, tensegrity, etc., etc. of all the businesses going on.
And the death of Carlos was not publicly announced for months they kept it secret and the in the. According to the Alta Journal who who did a big research. They have a couple of different really in-depth articles which are great.
There's actually a P.I. that was hired, and part of this whole mystery of these people that went and, it was the first time I had come across this theory when the Pi said in this article, which is follow the money, if you want to find the missing, which is follow the money, because most people assume that they committed suicide because there is there have been people that have mentioned that Carlos talked about mass suicide.
If he dies, or everybody should go back to that very culty saying of like, hey, if I'm going like this, let's all go out together kind of thing. And. He had. Absolutely. And even I believe it's, the, the, the witch that is still around that was found. But she didn't. She wasn't one of the missing ones. I forget polar Carol Higgs Pullman. That's what I'm thinking of. So Carol takes Cassie Pullman told somebody that they had purchased guns either right before he died or right after he died.
And no one has found those guns, so that could have been part of a mass suicide situation. No, it can't. Yeah, I it's it cannot be understated. I that is the best phrase of the whole thing because that is my theory. So we might as well just dive into theories and talk about all of this. yeah, I talked I mentioned the committed suicide aspect because people have talked about that. Even in 2002, a Taos, New Mexico woman, Janice Emery, who had been a follower of Castaneda, she did commit suicide.
She jumped to her death over the Rio Grande, I believe in, according to some people that were close to her, One of Emery's friends had told the newspaper, local newspaper, that Emily Emery had talked about wanting to be with Castaneda's people before she committed suicide. So that's just that's just one little piece of of evidence. But it is it's not direct evidence by any means. It's just sort of hearsay.
But, a lot of people do believe that they committed suicide somewhere and went, I do not, I do not either. So what do you think? Do you want to talk about your your thoughts? I'm read it. Yeah. Please. Please. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And just to clarify real quick, when you mentioned the mineshaft, that's because Patricia Parton, her body being found in Death Valley, there are people that suspected some of the close by mines could be where the others went in, committed suicide.
So that's where that that little theory. Yeah. Yeah. Of course it's amazing. Yeah. Because you get to go down there and you get to like, search around like Indiana Jones. It's, you know, there's there's fun to it. She's her own case. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. And so you mentioned one of my favorite aspects of the details of this. When you theorize about, hey, did they go commit suicide or did they just run away, or did they fight each other?
So the the whole idea about the value of the estate, since they were being left, portions of the estate, they claimed that it was worth $1 million in 1998. There's no way it was just worth $1 million or thereabouts. I forget the exact figure, but somewhere around a million is what they were saying. It's his estate is worth a lot more than that. So they had strategized and figure out a way to lower the value of it. I think for a number of reasons. One of them is probably taxes.
But I'm sure there's some other reasons in there as well, and that definitely feeds into it. They didn't commit suicide. They were planning this. And DeAnn Alva's, aka what's her what's her tensegrity name? She, her sister, claimed that there's no way she would leave $100,000, the cash that she was being left right away. There's just no way she would ever have done that. And it's one of the fun things about cults is the hypocrisy.
And Carlos was teaching his followers, you know, don't don't claiming your life around nice things give me money, don't spend money. The money should be going to your spiritual awakening and all this kind of stuff. But he would turn around and he and the witches would go spend that money on fancy clothes. Even though they all wore like very simple things, they would buy the most expensive versions of those things. And yeah, like you said, bought property, had all this stuff.
So there is a there is a monetary factor into the way that they operated that I definitely think says that they just left South America most likely. And they're living off of royalties and things and the money they got. And I'll also add the the journalist who did a huge dive into this for the Alta Journal. He's been talking to the estate. He's trying to he's trying to literally follow the money to find out where they are. They still getting royalties. Are they still part of it? Are they live?
Where are they? And it's much more complicated than it would seem. I thought you could easily just look that stuff up. But he completely ran on to roadblocks every time he did that. And he would run into lawyers and other people that, like, run the estate. And you can't get the specific information about who does control Clear Green. The company today and who's making money off of it. So it could be them. It could be them. Too. Yes. Me too. Me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We'll find it.
That's a good point. That's a really good point. That is a very, very good point. Yeah. So now we've got to shift to the other side of this, which is the Patricia part. Who is the the lady that went out into Death Valley driving a Ford Escort instead of a inappropriate off road vehicle and being found years after her car was found abandoned. I will point out the the Ranger that found the car in one of the articles I was reading. He was talking to a journalist.
He pulled up those photos again of the car, and he found what he thought was a bullet hole. I think that's very intriguing. It's great. In an article, it's great to say on a podcast without seeing the photos directly. And I haven't been able to. I don't know if that is a bullet hole. He didn't think it was a bullet hole when he found the car.
So part of me thinks it could have been something else on the car that just now looking back is like, wait, maybe that is a bullet hole and it's just an intriguing thing. However, maybe there was a bullet hole because we have to ask what Patricia was doing out in the desert, why she left the car, how did she die out there? And again, the the cause of death was undetermined. So we don't know if she just got lost and died of starvation and heat stroke
or someone killed her. We don't know any of that. And that's. That opens up a whole new can of worms, because there's so many theories, there's so much theorizing that we can do because we know so little. But the intriguing thing to me is why was she separate from the other women? Why did she go to the desert? I have heard a little bit about. She had talked to Carlos about one day going into death Valley to do something. I can't remember the specifics, so maybe that was it. And she got lost.
Or did the women send her there because she was a bit of an outcast? And did they trick or something like that? Yeah. Give me your thoughts. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Do you think that they had anything to do with her dying? Or did you think they were just like, oh, she'll spend days out there and we'll we'll get the head start to leave town or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I could too, and I've been in Death Valley on a few different film projects. And, my gosh, it is, it is.
It's a ruthless environment. And where her car was found. That's one of the things that I really want to get across. It is not even easy to drive to where her car was like that, in and of itself is weird. It's strange behavior. It's hard to do. So it does show that she was she's trying something. She's really putting all her effort into going wherever she was planning to go. Yeah. Yeah, that's. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, possibly. I mean, I think so, especially in that area.
I think so, but it is, it's definitely still a mystery. And that one, I don't think we will. I think one day we will learn more about some of the other missing, missing witches. But I think her story is always going to be more mysterious because I don't think there's a way to find out what really happened to her. Interesting. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So remind me who Bruce Wagner is. Okay, that's what I thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great.
There also is another gentleman whose name I am forgetting, and I apologize because you're still alive, and you may even listen to this, but it was a guy that was being groomed to kind of take over. Yeah, yeah. And he's got some interesting stories out there. I don't remember all the details. Marisa gets a. As is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You'd be bad for sure. Well, yeah. So that. I mean, that kind of covers everything, I think in terms of the series. Please. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would think so. I mean, that would be my interpretation of that. And if you look at just the idea that tensegrity still exists, you can sign up, you can take classes, you can get certified clear. Green is still running. All of this is sort of the parent company of it all. And someone's going to be doing that. And it's not just a lawyer. It had to be somebody that he handed things off to.
And the closest thing we have to that, the most evidence we have points to the missing, which is that they're behind everything. Oh, yeah. Please. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's again kind of goes to the benefit of the quote unquote, cult keeping things so secret in teaching everybody to change your name, live these invisible lives. So it makes it really hard to research. Okay, listeners, you've been hearing us call all these women various names tonight
because they had various names. They kept changing. And that makes it hard to trace people and find people and find out what's going on. Like, it just adds to the the Pyramid of Mysteries. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Absolutely, absolutely. I will also point out people have gone to the house to, like, knock on the door and want to see it. People live there don't end there. They're unrelated to tensegrity or Carlos Castaneda's new owners, so don't bother him, please.
I don't want people going there and being like, I heard you on a study of stranger. I heard about this place. I see it. Yeah. It's like the people that own The Goonies house are now like, they've done some things publicly where people can come see it. They've renovated it to look like the 1980s again. They're they're they're going for it. I like that, I appreciate that. Well, great. I think we need to wrap it up. We've covered a lot.
Again, it's a massive story that we've only it's only the tip of the iceberg. But I think we've shared the important parts of it. The important theories. Unless there's anything I'm missing, Mariah. Yeah. Please. Oh, yes. I wanted to hear. Start with the depressing one. I would assume. Yeah. So that's from Patricia. Partner at that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. But like, just in a nutshell, it was Very, very dark. Very. Yes. So I I think I've read that, too, actually. Yeah, yeah.
It's pretty nice. Pretty nice. Yeah, absolutely. And I've been thinking about that a lot over the last week, actually. And I also will say this too, is slightly, slightly taking a turn from there, but it made me think of it is people do get positive things from these books, supposedly. And tensegrity. Tensegrity is like Taichi, I love Taichi, I think it's really healthy and important and people get things from the books and I'm kind of like, that's fine.
I just, I just wish it was more honest about what it was. I wish Simon and Schuster would put like fiction or whatever, and people can still take from it and have it affect their own lives. However they wish. That's the way I am, because I just like the truth about those things. But I have no problem with people reading these books and getting something from it. And he is stealing from a lot of things, you know? So it's it's not like it's just coming completely from from nowhere like he is.
He is stealing from things that he probably liked. You probably like read something was like, yeah, it really speaks to me. Let me have Don Juan say that, you know, or whatever. So, so there are some positive things in the books, not in not in his cult, I would say. I think that is a very terrible situation. And I think that's evil. Evil. But, you know, but I it is interesting that the books can have some positive impact on people. So, yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes. Maybe it's.
Yeah. Yeah it's a good point. All right. Any final thoughts outside. Is that. And I'll provide links in the show notes to make it even easier. And tag her on Instagram so you can easily find her. Please take her up on that. I'm being very sincere to, Well, thank you so much. Maria was great doing this with you. So much fun. Such a fascinating story that I am not done reading about. I know I'm going to be reading more about this soon, probably even tonight.
Because it's like a never ending mystery. And, it's very hard to share this story. So I think we did a good job, though. I think we did. All right. Oh, yeah. So let me finish on that. So tensegrity, the quote unquote workout. I am going to do it. I've been meaning to try it. I've just been busy and traveling and I travel again next week. So I'm going to try to do it this weekend. I will film it and probably put it on Instagram and or at least bits and pieces. Are you also going to do it?
Yeah. Yeah. No. And I, I do not own many clothes so I don't have a lot of options. But it may just be a black t shirt in sweats or something, because I just don't have any. Anything else? What about you? know what I would do with my hair, because there's no way to make this look short and blond. But I will somehow Oh, man. That little chain move so intense, I can't I can't wait to try it. But. Yeah. So that'll that'll be fun.
And I'll share that, and clips or whatever, and, please check and please check it out. And it'll probably encourage people to listen to the podcast, which is great. Yeah. Yes. Please do actually, if you film it and tag us, I don't know, I'll come up with some kind of gift or, you know, award for anybody that does. Man, that would be incredible. Would be incredible. All right, well, thank you again for going on this journey with me. And I'll talk to you soon.
Thank you for listening to a study of strange, and a very special thank you to my old friend Maria for suggesting this story and then being willing to do a bunch of research and studying and really diving into this amazing tale. I had so much fun. And listeners, thank you so much for supporting the show. It has been a busy year and a study of strange. We've done a lot. The show is growing.
I'm taking my first time off from the podcast in a while, so there's just going to be some less episodes throughout the summer. But if you want to support the show in other ways, check out our Substack, which you can find to the support tab on our website. A study of strange.com. We have additional content, and there will be a lot of articles over the next few months coming out, some of them free for non-subscribers. So check that out. Until next time. Thank you and good night.