Ghosts Of The Myrtles Plantation with Bill Whirity

The most haunted is a phrase used probably far too often. And how would you even measure such a thing? People have tried. You can find lists of most haunted homes, cities, states, etc. all over the Internet. Mainstream publications like National Geographic and Forbes even write about such things. Yeah. Forbes has weighed into the most haunted debates. But if you were to ask anyone what the most haunted city in America is, chances are they'll say New Orleans.

And if you were to ask what the most haunted houses in the United States, chances are high that a home near New Orleans tops the list. The Myrtles Plantation in St Francisville, Louisiana. Tonight, I discussed the history of the Myrtles Plantation, a history that perfectly mixes legend and fact to create a unique destination for skeptics and believers alike. What's real, what's fake, and what's it like to stay the night in the most haunted house in America? This is a study of strange.

Welcome to the show. I'm Michael may. Here we are stepping into the halloween season with the myrtles planted nation. And tonight my guest has stayed at the myrtles plantation. And this man, a filmmaker. And sincerely, one of my favorite writers in Hollywood. You? Yeah. This is Bill. Weirdly. Welcome to the show. Hey, how you doing? Good, good. So the myrtles. And correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a it's a bed and breakfast today. There's also, like, a restaurant. You can take tours.

Oh, I don't know if there was a restaurant when I went there. Oh. I was ten. Years ago when I was there. I got 2012 as filming a movie in Shreveport. And then when we wrapped, I was like, I'm going to go to New Orleans and this was on the way. And our mutual friend Rick Welcome had stayed here before when he was filming in Louisiana. And he's on the Tell Me about it and I'll talk about his story. Oh, good. A good. Yes. I didn't realize that. I'm I'm excited to hear that.

Yeah, they have a restaurant today. So I've obviously dived into a lot of research. They have a restaurant there. I don't know if it's in the house and maybe on a different, different thing on the property. Maybe they opened up the dining room. There's a oh, that would be amazing. Yeah. Anyway, so I met you through horror movies and scary things, and you want to make horror movies and scary movies. But there's more to having you on this episode than just being a filmmaker.

The like, scary stories. And that's because you can actually comment on those experiences that you you may have had. So I'm looking forward to it. However, first, before we get into your story, I want to save it for the end. Going to do some history first. Yeah, but let me ask you right away, what was your your kind of inspiration to stay there? Did you just go because it was fun or did you want to investigate that you want to debunk, like, why? Why do it?

It was yeah, well, like I went there because I was like, from what Ritz told me, it sounded like a cool haunted place. And I was like, Maybe I'll see a ghost. Yeah. Which, you know, I'm sort of in that half and half hour because I'm a very scientific thinker and not very religious. So it's like, you know, I believe in ghost kind of. But then also like, you know, I don't know if I do. It's like one of those things where I don't try to disprove it. It's like, Yeah, I don't wanna see it.

But then once you're in the thick of it and you're there by yourself, all of a sudden you're like, I don't want to say I go. Yep, yep. And the stories, the stories, because I'm in a similar boat. I'm a skeptic, but I want to believe I love ghost hunting. I love the experiences, I love the stories, I love the places.

But there is something about hearing things like when you go and you take the tour and they talk about the mirror and they talk about the plantation and some of the history that has an effect on your belief. Even if you go in being a full skeptic, I feel like it's going to it's going to affect you in some way. So, yeah, let me do a little housekeeping. Yeah, sorry. Right now, everybody. Thank you all for for listening and supporting the show. We do have a giveaway on Patreon right now.

I think it's for like the next 30 days. So you can check out information for that on a study of strange tor.com. Also, if you like the pod or if you don't like the pod, but you like hearing me. I don't know. That's a weird thing to say, but the point is subscribe. Subscribing is really important for everybody. And yeah, if you don't like it, tell me you don't like tell me what you don't like. Exactly. And also you can email me ideas for stories, things that you think I got wrong.

Opinions, a study of strange at gmail.com. And that's. The giveaway, by the way, you said, oh, the. Giveaway. Yeah, yeah. It's funny because I've gotten to a habit of not saying what it is and I really should be doing that. So it's a you get a personalized video from me for anybody that signs up for any any level on Patreon, and I'm going to have some fun with that. So, so that's what's going on. Also, have you left a review, Bill? Have you read did did you really as you.

Are not e-mailed the right after you did it? Nice. Nice. Well, thank you so much for that. So what I'm going to do, I've done history. I've done a history. I've done history before. Now I've done research into the history of the plantation.

And I think it's I think it's just going to be more interesting for everybody to kind of hear the history and some of the most famous haunted tales before we actually get into, like, your personal experiences, but feel free to comment on them because as I'm sure people can assume, there are a lot of different versions of some of these stories. Yeah. And a lot of the like.

I wanted to find old newspaper articles and stuff like that, which you can't find some of, but especially in the 1800s, I think most of that research, if you really want to get into records, you have to go to like LSU and go to the library and stuff, which I obviously can't do from California right now. Microfiche room. Right? Right. Yeah. I love microfiche.

Yeah. Yeah. But I think the history is is going to give some some credence or some validity or some weight to if it is haunted and if you do believe in those things. I think the history is why that that would be the case. I mean, that's generally the assumption with spirits and ghosts. If you are a believer when you hear these stories about the Myrtles plantation, it's kind of easy to believe it's haunted. But I think if you're a skeptic, it's kind of just as easy to debunk.

And I don't know if you fully agree with that and you don't have to. In fact, it may be interesting if you don't agree with me on it as we go through, Bill, but like some of the photos of spirits, I'm like, now that's fake. Some of the stories I've already been able to debunk. So, so that's why I say it's kind of but there's enough there, there's enough history there. There's enough things going on that's like it's easy to believe it and it's easy to to not believe it.

Depending on where you land in the paranormal or belief system. So upfront, I'm going to mention that Myrtles Plantation, they typically say they have 12 ghosts, that there have been ten murders over the 200 years of existence. Some of that is true. Some of that is false. One thing I'll point out right away, I've been reading books and looking at the millions of YouTube videos and articles you can find online.

I find very little actually mention about the day to day life of slavery on the plantation. There are anecdotes. There's obviously a famous ghost and I've already talked off. Yes, I always set off camera but off microphone a little bit about. So there are like anecdotal stories, but there's not a lot of history of slavery on the plantation, which they obviously it was a working plantation. So there was slavery.

Life could not have been good, which I think is if a place is haunted and if it's tied to emotion and energy and all that kind of stuff, I would imagine that slavery is a huge part of that. So it's actually I find it very disappointing that you don't know more about it on the property. Most of the stories are about what? The goings on in the house. In the house itself. Yeah. All right. So here we are. The history of the Myrtles plantation. It is in St Francisville, Louisiana.

And in 1794, a deputy attorney general, a guy named David Bradford of Pennsylvania. He always he always wanted a house by a swamp, which I don't. Judge him on. Yeah, I'm from Florida. I actually do like swamps. He would get his chance because he was a major player in the Whiskey Rebellion and he had to flee Pennsylvania. And I went down a rabbit hole of research on the Whiskey Rebellion, and I was like, No, that's not the episode. It's Halloween time, a story about Ghost. What am I doing?

What was he fleeing from? So the Whiskey Rebellion was it's essentially a tax put on certain libations like creation and selling of it in the early days of the United States government. And a lot of people rebelled, especially in Pennsylvania. There were riots, there were fights, things were set on fire, and George Washington sent in the military. And it was like the first show of Might from the federal government early on in their country's history.

So Bradford was one of the people as part of the rebellion, he had to leave, otherwise he might have gone to prison. Was he rebelling because he was in that industry, like did he? I don't think he was in the industry, but it was more of like supporting people in the industry. And also he probably he may have drank. I don't know. So you're having to pay more for your whiskey now. So. Okay, whatever the case, he was involved in that and he had to flee.

Now, it's funny because there are a lot of stories that there's like valiant stories of him jumping out of his second floor window and landing on his horse and escaping at night and getting a gunfight with soldiers chasing him. None of that's true. He actually just kind of like mosey it out of town. I was like, I should leave because I might go to prison. So it's really funny to come across those things.

The truth is that they might not have even wanted to arrest him because it would have caused more fighting and they just kind of wanted stuff to chill out. Okay. Like that was the plan from their government. It's like, just just calm down, please. This might just be the story he told people. Yeah, yeah. When he was. Yeah, absolutely. Louisiana is not part of the country at the time. That's why he can escape to there and get away from this pre-purchase. Yes. Yes, it is part of France.

So he ends up a couple of years after he escapes from the rebellion. He ends up building a modest eight bedroom home that he called Laurel Grove. And then he was acquitted, I think in 1798 or 1799. He was acquitted by the then then president, who I think was Adams, I think it was John Adams. And so he went back into Pennsylvania. He got his family because he had a wife and kids. And he left them. Yeah, he had to leave. Yeah. Okay. So he had got the family. Yeah. Got the family.

Moved them down to the property. All my notes. Did he just. Laurel Grove. There you go. He got his family and moved them down to the property. Laurel Grove. And some say that he coerced the land. And this is because he again, this is just legend. There is no proof to any of this. But apparently there was a Tunica, which is a native tribe, a burial ground on the property, and he dug up the remains and set them on fire.

That's, again, just part of the lore, a very dramatic scene I could easily see in a movie, but that supposedly might have cursed the property. Interesting. That's also how you get rid of ghosts on Supernatural as you burn the bones, you burn the bones and then the guests go away. Apparently so. Maybe he was trying to do that. Maybe. Maybe he later died in 1808, and the plantation was left to Bradford's wife. But around 1817 reports actually vary on this, but it's around 1817, some say like 1828.

And so it's a working plantation. It is a working plantation. Yeah. Okay. Around 1817, it was purchased by Bradford's daughter, Sarah, Matilda, and her husband, Clark. Woodruff There you go. The Woodruff name you were looking for, he was a little. So even gifted to him then will it to him? Just willed it to the to his wife. And then Sarah purchased it from her mom. But it may not have been for any amount of money. She just legally took over ownership of the property and people.

There are a lot of people that know the history of this place better than me, even though I've been reading a lot. So let me know if I'm wrong. A study of strange at gmail.com. I will correct it. Some reports say that Sarah Matilda was 19 when she got married. Some say she was 14, but it looks like she actually was 19. And I do think she was an adult. They had three kids, Cornelia, James and Mary. Some accounts only claimed two kids, Cornelia and James, but they had three.

Now, here's where we get into one of the most important tales of the Myrtles plantation, a situation that gave rise to one of the most renowned ghosts on the property. Chloe, the slave Chloe. Now, legend says that Clark had an affair and it was with Chloe. And this. Oh, yeah, that's. That's part of some of what you read is that an affair happened? The usual story might have been about microfilm. The usual story is that she was eavesdropping over business or something, had her ear up to the door.

And as a punishment, they cut it off. They cut off her. Here was a left ear, and she had to wear like a green turban or a scarf around her head to kind of hide the scarring. But, yeah, there are some accounts that say they were having an affair. But again, all of that's just kind of like lore. And people have varying stories on these things. And some people are saying that that's why she cut her ear off. No, I think it's like still they were still in there.

And I think she was either caught or and so, like, I can't remember exactly what it was about the affair, but like the eavesdropping came later, okay? Like the affair was part of all the shenanigans going on in the home. Okay. But most most stories claim the ear cut off because she was eavesdropping. Yeah, because he was a man about town, like, you know, kind of high end societies have people over in, like, the lounge area.

Yeah. They'd be doing their typical gossip and she'd be listening and then. You were telling me, because I did read about this, but I didn't go too much into it in my notes. But you were telling me that she was a house slave, right? Yeah. The way they told us the story when I was there was that she worked in the house, mostly tending to the family and the children.

And yeah, after she got caught eavesdropping, you know, she was worried about getting I think it was after she got caught eavesdropping, she was worried about being sent back to, like, the work area. Yeah. You you you want to be in the house, right? Because that's. That's much. At a better job. You're not as grueling. I mean. I guess he say it's a better job. Yeah, comparatively. Comparatively, comparatively. So after this, Chloe came up with a plan to get back in the good graces of the family.

And now, again, this is told kind of two ways. She either plans to bake the cake to get back into good graces like she she bakes. She bakes a cake for one of the children's birthdays. Yeah. And she uses the, the essence or basically oleander. Which grows in the area which is poisonous. Poisonous and kind. Of a munchausen by proxy situation where she hurt the thought process for.

So we were told that she'd make this poison, this cake and then the kids would get sick and they would be you know, they would want to keep her in the house to tend to the kids and kind of nurse them back to health. So that's that was sort of the plan that we were told by that. Yeah, no, that's what I read, too. I think some accounts just leave that out. They were just like, Oh, she just wanted to get back at them. So she poisoned the cake.

So I think some people skip over, skip the step of like the thinking that she wanted to take care of the kids, to get back into like good standing stay. Where she was and. Right. However, it was too much poison and she ended up killing Sarah, Matilda and two of their kids. I think it's important to note, I think this was when Woodruff was out of town, right? Yeah. He was not in town when this happened. Yeah. Yeah. And she was held responsible. Chloe again. Held responsible for this.

And the slaves kind of turned against her because they didn't want to be probably punished by proxy. Yeah. When he got back in town. Yeah. So they hung her, hung Chloe and then dumped her body into the swamp land. Some, some accounts say that they like weighted her body down. But I'm like, I'm from Florida. You can just use the swamp. There's gators, you know, need to wait it down. But yeah, they they killed her.

And the story is that now Chloe still is on the property today, sometimes seen it with the scarf or turban on her head very vividly. Some accounts only see her from like the waist up. Apparently some don't. Francis Kamin, who lived and owned the property in the eighties, I read her book. She has a very vivid scene with Chloe on like one of her first nights in the house. And I'll get to that a little bit later because I'll review her.

Book and the famous photo of her is like what they sell in the gift shop. It's like, you know, a postcard. Yeah. Yeah. So the famous pictures from 1992, apparently, and I think it was for like insurance purposes, they needed pictures of the property. And in between the pictures up on my computer, in between sort of two parts of the property, you see this woman, Lee, kind of shadow figure. The house is sort of shaped like an LS and there's like the main front row of all the houses.

And then there's this little space in between, you know, the foot of the L and then like the little no. Yeah. Is at least at that point it was where you check in for reception. So in that little outdoor sort of breezeway is where she's standing and you can find the photo. Yeah. If you just, I mean it's, it's like the most famous photo from the plantation in terms of the hunts of the plantation. So it's easy to find and people can give their own opinion about it.

I don't take a lot of I don't give a lot of weight to this picture personally. But again, that's just me. What was interesting. So in the lobby of the area where I was staying, they have a display case and it's filled with single earrings. So she takes them. Supposedly she would take people who stayed there as earrings, but since she only had one ear, she would only take one of them. So people would leave.

They wouldn't find the earring. And then, like, you know, weeks later, it would turn up in the maze, would find it. So they just kind of have this collection of single ear. Oh, that's that's kind of creepy. The story of Chloe, though, is pure legend because there are no records of a slave named Chloe. I think Frances, who owned the property again, and I read her book. I think she ended up I read in an interview that she found some potential records of a slave named Chloe, but who was 14.

But there's no again it's kind of hard to like confirm is this Chloe everybody talks about or is it just legend? Is it just legend and lore, that kind of girl, or is it. Just something where there was no record of it at the time? Exactly. But here's the thing. The reality is that on July 21st, 1823, Sarah Matilda died because of yellow fever, which was like a huge issue in the area at the time. And then on July 15th, a year later, 1824, her son James died from yellow fever.

And then two months later, in September, Cornelia, the other daughter, died from yellow fever. So they did not die together. They were not poisoned. They died from yellow fever years apart. And also, again, they had three children, not just two, which is sometimes kind of ignored or overlooked or forgotten about in this story. Mary, the other daughter survived and she kept living throughout life. So yes, records are bad. Which aids in creating mysteries?

Because it's hard to prove and people fill in the gaps. So now what are the symptoms of oleander poisoning versus yellow fever? Oh, they're not there. No, no, no. It's it's completely different, cause yellow fever is even a disease. Yeah, it's just. It's very different. I'm not one to comment specifically on how it's different, but they are. Yes, they're they're very different.

And Yellow Fever was a huge I don't know if it was technically a pandemic at the time, but it was spreading, running rampant. Okay. So the signs of that are very well known to the to the doctors at the time. What I don't know, and I would love if anybody out there knows, please contact me about this. I don't know if when Sarah, Matilda and her two of her kids died, if they died on the property or not.

Oh, because that would that would be part of this story, too, whether Chloe's real or not, if they died on the property, I think that's. Yeah, that's really interesting. But I'm sure you're going to talk about I think it was WOODRUFF Right. He died on the property. Are you sure you're getting there now? You're talking about the shot. Yeah. Oh, no, that's. Yeah, I'm going to get there soon, but that's someone else. But yeah, he died there as well, so we'll get to that.

So I don't mean to say any of this to like debunk the story, but I do think one of my personal issues with ghost stories is not taking into account what you can prove or disprove. It's like if it's haunted, let it be haunted. Let's find out why it's haunted. Don't, don't lie and stick. To your story. Yeah, yeah. Like be open to the changes and things. So anyway, the next official owner of the property was Roof and Gray. Sterling.

And he's the one that actually renamed it to the Myrtles Plantation. He named it that based on the crape myrtle trees that were on the property. He restored the house, kind of grew the house, made it big and elegant and kind of what it is today.

I think he's the one that also added the the 125 foot long veranda, the like long porch, as I would call it, legend says that Sterling Sun was shot in the game room over a gambling debt and died on the floor and people trip over his body or see blood spots. That is a story I can not confirm. Sterling died on the 17th of July in 1854 of consumption. I just always love talking about consumption because it's tuberculosis. For the longest time, I thought it was drinking yourself too.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, recently I found out that it was tuberculosis. Yeah. So when. When Sterling died, his daughter took over the property. She married in 1852, a guy named William Drew Winter, and they ended up eventually taking over the Myrtles plantation. They had a daughter named Kate. Now, did you hear anything about it? Kate said, ring a bell. I mean, I probably won't remember the name. I might remember the story. So the story is, is that Kate was two, I think two years old. Yes.

And she had yellow fever and she was confined confined to her bedroom. And a voodoo priestess was brought in to try to save her. Okay. She couldn't save her. The family got upset with her, kind of kicked her out. And she supposedly, like, curse the property or something. And the story is, is that her name was Cleo or Chloe, which is obviously similar or the same as Chloe. The other story and some people say that she had a green turban as well. So there are like conflicting competing stories.

I think Myrtles plantation sticks to the story we already shared earlier, that there are other people there like, no, man, that's not right, Chloe. And they have the wrong Chloe. Interesting. Let's try to remember what the voodoo priest this story was, because I remember the ghost instances of it, but I couldn't remember the original. Yeah, so it has something to do with trying to save Kate. Kate Winter. Do you want me to go into the ghost story now or we'll cover that stuff?

Well, is it about the Voodoo Prince Priestess? Yeah, I think so. There's like there's the room where they see her face, like, oh. You could tell that now. Okay, it seems tied in. Yeah. Yeah. So one of the stories that they told us, I don't know if it's important to lay this out an hour later, but like the way that the the bed and breakfast portion of it is, is there's like the master suite, which is a whole section of the house, which is what I stayed in.

I rented that they give you like an old skeleton key, which is like the only key to get into that house. That sort of I don't want to say wing is it's just like the end cap of the house and you have the entire section. So there was like a room on the first floor, which I think was called either like the Yellow or the Gold Room, which they don't rent anymore. And that was even locked to me.

They take you on it during the interesting but it's too haunted to rent out is like what they say because that's where in the window on the outside sometimes people would see the face of the voodoo priestess and there was some time, I think it was in the nineties, the Oprah Winfrey Show was going to do a story on the place. Yeah, I read about it. Yeah. And one of. The producers stayed there.

She stayed in that room and woke up in the middle of the night and saw like the like a body hanging from the ceiling and ran out of the room and like never came back. And they never filmed that episode there. And since then, they don't rent that out anymore. Like, so it remains locked. So I was staying in the room right above that and I had every time I had to go up the stairs, I'd walk past that door. And so again, just more creepy stuff where you're standing.

Plus you're not in your other there like the other guests, which are in the other side of the house, have a separate entrance. There is a connecting door, but now that's locked because they realized people were renting bowls and having parties and it was okay to distract them. Yeah. So everyone else has a shared hallway and then they have their individual rooms, whereas I'm just sequestered in this totally separate part of the house. We've made it extra scary.

But yeah, so that was the story with that room and the voodoo priestess. I'm trying to remember what? The origin. No, I wonder if. If the Kate story is the origin of that. I'm sure like other more kind of legend stories, I'm sure there's probably some variations to it. But yeah, that's when I first came across because I was trying. To remember if it was a priest. I remember hearing something with a snake around her neck or something. Oh, I never came across any of that.

Maybe that was saying saying I'm remembering that. But that's what when they saw her in the window, like looking outside the window. Now, during the Civil War, the house was allegedly ransacked by union soldiers. The family was going through difficult financial times, and by 1867 they were bankrupt. And the myrtles were sold by the U.S. Marshal to the New York warehouse and security company.

And two years later, however, somehow the family was able to get back on their feet again after the war, because you can imagine South money that the Confederate money was worth like nothing. So a lot of people were obviously going through financial hardships after the war, but two years later, they were able to get it things back together again and they were able to buy the property back. So Mrs. Sarah Wynter was able to get the Myrtles plantation back.

And now here's where we have a true story and one that's actually like validated by the old documents, newspapers, all sorts of things. And that is the only real murder to actually have taken place on the plantation that, again, that we that we know about did you hear about the 17th step? Yes, that's the one I was waiting for. Okay. Nice, nice. Now, do you have your own personal story for that? Because we may wait on that or we can wait on that. It's not my personal story. It's just story.

And then I'll go into my story. Okay. We're going to wait on that, because right now we're going to do a reenactment of of the story of why there is something to do with the 17th step. And I'll give a little background here. It's 1871. William Winter, who owned the property, was teaching a Sunday school class in one of the rooms on the property, and he heard a horse ride up and someone called for him. So let me make.

Sure I heard the right for some reason, I feel like this was in the middle of the night. I didn't know that he was teaching. A school again. Variations of stories like even if the murder is real, like I'm sure there's probably different, different legends that are told to me, just make sure this is the right scene. Yes. Okay. So you're going to read, I guess read William. Okay. So you're. William Winder. Yeah, exactly. Well, you're moody. And William when Billy Winter.

As I mentioned earlier, I went to school with Bill Winters, who's a couple of years older than me. Couple hundreds of years old. This was William would go ghosts. So it's 1871 on the Myrtles plantation. It's a lovely day. And inside the home, a group of children sit on the floor looking up at William Winter, who is teaching a Sunday school class. Very good. James and Mary, if you'd like to say something, remember to raise your. Hand from outside. There's the sound of a horse approaching quickly.

William looks at the window from outside. Mr. Winter, come outside. I know you're in there. William turns to the kids. Part of me. Children? Nothing to worry yourselves about. William Winter. Come out now. Wait here. I'll be right back. William leaves the room and the children listen to him, opening the front door and walking onto the veranda. That speaks to the man. There are children inside gunshots. The children scream. The man on the horse is heard galloping away.

Some of the children are courageous enough to look out the window. The horse is too far away to make out who the mysterious shooter was. Moments later, the door burst open and William falls into the four year floor. Hard to say, covered in blood. He then begins pulling himself up the stairs. Sarah, Sarah? Sarah. Sarah appears at the top of the stairs and runs to William. She holds him and cries as William dies in her arms. The Sunday school children watch from the ground floor horrified, then.

Dun dun. Yes, yes. So that is. Yeah. The version I heard was that this writer came in the middle of the night, woke him from bed. He told his wife to stay inside. He went outside, confronted the man who was shot, and then climbed up the stairs where he died on the 17th. On the 17th step. So, yes, whatever version of that story is correct. Yes. And now these are the interior staircase. This is there's the porch stairs, the front doors, and you go up the other stairs.

So now that is again in the section of the house where I was staying by myself. So like the front door is locked. That's the one I had the key to. And then there was the staircase that went up to me. Yeah. So that's where he died. So I'll mention this one thing before I tell you some of the stuff that I learned and this is actually in most of the information I read historically gets this quote unquote correct.

So before I share that, though, the Frances Kamin book, who again, she owned the property in the eighties, she shares her story of when she first learned about the 17 step. And that was through like friends of a friend. Okay. So she didn't even know about it because all this other haunting stuff was apparently happening to her, but she didn't know about that. And some women were there and probably butchering her story. So I apologize.

But they were like, oh, and the 17th step and just sort of like offhandedly comment. And she was like, Wait, what is that? And that's kind of how she started to learn that story. But in fact, historically, William Winter died outside on the porch, so he was shot and died right out there outside. Yeah. It's interesting how, you know, it's a game of telephone stories like ghost stories or games of telephone. They change over every year. The seventh step on the porch. Could have been the 717.

Could have could have just been. Someone misheard the story or, you know, you don't know how they start. But it's definitely becomes this game of telephone. And again, I'm not saying this like debunk anything is if weird stuff happens in the 17 step, maybe it's just not William Winter, maybe it's something else. Yeah. So anyway, he did die outside a gentle named. Oh. Did I write his name down? Yes, I did. A gentleman named E.S. Weber apparently went to trial as the murderer.

Oh, but the records kind of disappear after that, so I think he was probably not charged. I think he probably got off because apparently the story is that the kids, if there were kids, whatever witnesses did exist, never saw who it was, apparently. So if it was someone named Winter, there weren't you know, there wasn't reliable witnesses. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, very, very interesting story. Yes. I'm going to really quickly tell riches story.

Yeah. So my friend Rich, who he was down there filming a movie, I forget this is before or after he was around Katrina because they did have to evacuate eventually. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so he was he was staying there. He knew about the ghost stories and he stayed in the same room. And he told me that this is why, again, the story was at night, that they told them, you know, at a certain hour, you often hear his body collapsing on the stairs. Oh, wow.

So he set an alarm to wake up, you know, like a few minutes before allegedly you hear that sounds. That could actually be a wake and hear it. And a few minutes before his alarm went off, he woke up to the sound of what he described as it sounded like somebody dropping like an armful of books down the stairs. So he just, like bolted up in bed before his alarm went off 60 minutes before, like, supposedly when this happened. And yeah, that's like that was his sort of he went out there

and there was nothing there. Obviously. So that's the story that I heard. That was his experience with it. Again, who knows if it was directly outside the room. Maybe it could have been on the front porch. STEPS Yeah. CARRIES It's very quiet out there in the middle of nowhere. So that was his story that so I was, I went there, staying there to hopefully get that same experience and I'll tell my whole story. Yeah, everything. Would explain why that didn't get to. Him. That's.

That's amazing. Remember the time? Two weeks. I know. That's what I was going to ask because a time comes up. In Frances's book, she talks about 3 a.m. a lot. Yeah. And so I'm curious to hear some other stories from this time that. Leads left at me next. Richard. Yes. So in 1878, to continue on, Sarah Wynter dies allegedly. I think this is and like most articles, I think even Wikipedia says that she died of a broken heart. Mary Cobb, Sterling, Sarah's mother, was in charge of the plantation.

She had it till about 1880. And then it was a divided up among her children. And one of them sold it to a gentleman named Warren Brooks. And Brooks kept it until 1889. Now, there may have been a few other brief owners, but it was then purchased by Harris Harris and Milton Williams and Mississippi widower who brought his son and second wife with him and his family eventually kind of broke up the property and even like smaller pieces.

So I don't know if the plantation today is back as being like the original all the original land or if it's smaller. I actually could not figure that out, but I do think it's smaller than it originally. At the time it was just you could rent in the main house. Looking at their website, there is a map that shows like The Cottages that's I don't know if they rent all those other things. I think they do. I think yeah, expand. That out then. Yeah.

So in 1942, there's kind of a break in stories like dramatic stories for a while in 1942, a caretaker. This is all alleged I can not find any confirmation of this was apparently murdered by a robber. I do mention this because there are a lot of other unconfirmed stories would be we'd literally have to do like 12 episodes of Cover Moll But I mention this one because there are some ghost claims of like a grumpy caretaker. I just love the idea of a grumpy ghost.

Like not a scary ghost, but like a grumpy ghost is ornery. Yeah, exactly. In 1950, it was purchased by Marjorie Munson. And this is about the time that kind of ghost stories start getting passed around. But like locally, not nationally or internationally, like the Myrtles plantation today, just kind of like local stories. And went through a few other owners into the 1970s, including a gentleman named John L Pierce, who by this time there were tours of the property.

So it was like a tourist destination kind of thing, but it was more about the history of plantations in the South. They were not marketing it as haunted ghost stories, any of that. It was just old fashioned plantation. And then in 1980, Frances Kurmi purchased the property with her then husband, James Myers, who she sometimes refers to as Jim in her book. Now it's under their ownership, too. The legend actually begins to grow and it appeared in the New York Times.

It started appearing and other things. And the myrtle starts to become the, quote unquote, most haunted home in the nation is when Frances takes over. Are they renting it at this point? Like is there a marketing ploy maybe behind them? I don't think there's she so her story, I'm actually going to get into her story because I find it really interesting. And it was the sort of the most in-depth book I read on the subject. I don't want to like just synopsis.

That's not the appropriate language, the entire book because go buy it if you're interested. Yeah. Like she actually does a very good job with the book I think she published in the early 2000. So it was after she owned it. She owned it from 1980 to 1990. Because it seems like a weird thing to promote unless you're trying to sell a book or get people to stay there for like hundred evenings because it's selling a stigmatized property, because it's an additional hurdle, I would imagine.

Especially back then, I think today calling a place haunted, probably there's a there's a business to that. But it's a very small subset. Yeah, a small subset. At the time I probably would not have been but her dream and again, how can I get into this little more debt in a second? But her dream was to open up an inn. Okay, so she always wanted to kind of open it to the public.

And I don't know if she's the first to open it up to like people can stay there, but she's definitely when, when it started in terms of like modern time because I don't think I don't think John L Pearson was renting it out for rooms. I know he was just giving tours. So Kate Myers, I'm going to excuse me. Kamin She was Myers at the time. And at this point, really quick, it's no longer they wanted to stop being a working plantation, you know. Oh, it would have had to be the end of the Civil War.

I mean, I don't know when they stopped growing saying. Well, that's it. I mean, yes, it could still be like a farm. Yeah, yeah. I still called. The plantation if it's in the south. But that's you don't and and. No, I don't. I honestly don't know if you stop calling it that, but it had to be a working property I would imagine up until probably the middle of the 20th century. I would have, I would imagine. But I cannot say because I didn't even think to look that up.

To be honest, that is a good question. And please read in a study of strange it that kind of let me know and I will I will tell everyone a. Good point that if they're not working it out as a farm, that they would have to open as I can in. Yeah. Yeah. Well, especially if the property was broken up in the sort of late 1800s, early 1900s, maybe the farm portion was off. But again, I'm just I'm just assuming at this point, I really don't know.

Now, Frances Kamin in my own personal theory, I actually think it's under her leadership that the haunted stories and I already kind of said this, but I think the hunted stories grow because of her, not because of her book as I came later. But I think she might have seen again my own personal theory. She does not say this in the book, but I think she might have seen some opportunity with the haunted side of things. Frances did want to turn it into an end. That was always her dream.

She grew up in California. And, you know, let me also I'm going to take a step back here for a second. I am not saying the place is not haunted when I'm like, I think she's the reason it kind of became a thing because that's up to each and every one of us and all the listeners out there. I am a bit of a skeptic, so that's definitely my bias going into this. But I think it's important just to think of those things, to think of the motivations and to think of the real history behind it.

And some of the tales that Frances talks about in her book, I think are easily debunked. However, when you go into the book to give her some some credit here, a lot of her steals like the Chloe tale, like Chloe, I was able to be like no one knows if Chloe existed. The children died because of yellow fever later on at different times. So you can kind of easily debunk that she tells the story as if it's a fact of the being poisoned. But then later chapters she actually does debunk it.

So she is very good about being like, Oh, here's the thing I heard. Here's what likely happened. So I do want to give her credit. I don't want to make it sound like she's just pulling all this out to try to make it sound haunted. No, she she actually does a very good job and it's a very good book. So I think everybody out there should go read it and I'll have links to it in the show notes. So her story starts on a cruise to Haiti.

Now, she was with her soon to be husband, Jim, and I think she is Jamaica and Haiti. But in Haiti, she had met friends on the cruise. They had gone out to explore. One day when you stop, you know, the islands, as you do on a cruise. And they came across a voodoo ceremony and this is how the book kind of starts. And she pulled out her camera and took a picture and the people doing the ceremony noticed it and basically, like aggressively came at her.

And one of the camera wanted her to stop and they thought she was stealing their souls. So she gets the hell out of there. And someone said that they cursed her. So that kind of starts the story. She she's very good at a narrative, which is kind of my critique on her book is like, it sounds like you're writing a movie and not just like sharing your experience, but she gets out of there.

She's apparently been cursed and the friends she meets on the ship try to convince her to come to Louisiana with them on her way back to like California when the cruise is done. And she and her husband agree. Now, she had always wanted to own it. And as I've said, she had always been attracted to Louisiana because I think her father was from there and she had been to St Francisville before on another kind of river cruise in the area. So she knew the area.

So, yes, she she first goes to the Myrtles on this kind of stopover in Louisiana and she starts looking at property with her soon to be husband. And the myrtles is for sale. So she tours it, she falls in love with it. But during a tour of the property, she heard a female voice call her name and it made her feel uneasy.

So she asked John Pierson, the owner who was giving her the tour, if there was anything unusual about the property, which I do hope she actually asked in that exact way anything unusual about the property? And he replied, Don't be silly. But he wouldn't look at her in the eye when he told her the story.

So sharing. Yeah. So Jonell kept saying that the place was for families, and Francis actually used this as like motivation to get married because it was when she's looking at the property over and over again, he's like this place for families, place for families. And she wasn't married yet. So she and Jim eventually got married. And I can't remember if they they probably did get married right away.

But I think they told Jonell they were getting married when they were buying the property her first night there. So there's this weird thing in the book which I couldn't quite deduce, and I don't know if that's just me not being a good reader. Okay. But she started staying at the house when the previous owner was still there and I think it was during closing, but he was like letting her stay at the house. Like a rent to own situation, I. Guess.

So it was it's a little strange on her first night there, Janelle was there as well, still still living there. And Frances had a dream that she was wearing a dress that would have been like the one Sarah Matilde, who is the mother that died from poisoning, quote unquote, dead from poisoning would have worn.

And this is like the first time in the book that that Frances starts connecting certain things she's going through with like previous owners or previous people that used to be on the property because there's more than just that. On her third night while she was trying to sleep, the lights in her room kept turning on. So it would just be like she would turn off the lights, go to sleep, then she'd wake up and they'd be on.

And she would, of course, question herself of like, Wait, did I turn them off? I thought I turned them off. She turned them off. And this happens number of times before she gets scared and she goes and she sleeps on the couch outside of wherever Janelle's room was. And while she's trying to sleep, she was woken up feeling like someone was watching her. And then she noticed a figure was standing there candle in hand, which illuminated the room.

And it was a woman, a black woman in a green dress and a green turban, and she wouldn't go away. And Francis got up. The courage kind of touched the woman, and then she disappeared. And so that's her first experience with Chloe. Okay. And she apparently, she she screamed for help when she first saw Chloe standing above her. And John's room is right there, and John never came together. And this is something that kind of happens throughout the book.

Like someone will try to be getting help from somebody and no one will show up, even though they're like right there. So that's a really interesting thing. Now she connects herself again to the science by telling a story about a previous owner that she met with. I don't know how to say their name. It's like the knuckles Michelle's. They were very old when she met them and they lived in California at the time.

And the old woman who was the wife and that that family that had previously of the Myrtles, she was still alive, but like really elderly. Like it's like hanging on for dear life. When Frances met her and Frances recognized her from like spirits she had seen in the house. And so some say that like people near death, you can kind of like stroke her. Yeah, kind of like that. So she was she was kind of terrified. And then she later found a receipt in the Myrtles.

She found a receipt for a cruise to Haiti from that same family that she had met. And it was they went on the cruise right before allegedly they bought the Myrtles just like her. So it's this interesting connection, something I do want to read, because I think it's interesting. Frances has a friend. I think his name was Jimmy, and he told her something about the myrtles. And I just want to read the quote from the book. He says, Something profound happens to people at the Myrtles.

Whatever your issues are, whatever your addictions, the myrtle seems to take over and bring them out and make them worse. If you like your liquor at the Myrtles, you'll probably become a drunk. If you're depressed, your depression will overcome you. Whatever your problems, they will be intensified. The longer you stay there, the worse it gets. So don't be surprised if the people around you begin to act crazy. They won't be able to help themselves. Sounds more like the overlook, right? Right.

There's a lot of yeah, there's a lot of connections to like, other haunted places in terms of experiences. All right. So the next thing I'll bring up about Frances and her book, I haven't our next dramatized scene Bill get excited. So this happened between Frances and Midge Soderberg from Steven Soderbergh's family. I think it's his mom.

Oh, really? Yeah. So Frances met Midge at a party in Louisiana, and it was a party of people that would get together and actually, like, discuss mystical things, and they would have séances and talk about ghosts. And so she was invited because she's the owner of the Myrtles to go to this party, and she got to meet Steve Soderbergh's mom, Midge. So you're going to read. It's interesting, I guess. Have you read Frances, an old Louisiana home at night?

Frances and her friend Hampton are speaking with a few people in the foyer of this nice old fashioned southern home. People are saying their goodbyes and leaving the event. It's the end of the night. A woman named Midge Soderberg is standing in the doorway, waving goodbye to some other guest. Frances and Hampton are about to leave when Midge grabs Frances arm. Excuse me. Frances? Yes? Do you mind if we speak in private? A moment. Frances nods to Hampton, signaling him to wait for sure.

So Mitch leads Frances into an adjoining living room, which is now empty. I've been debating, talking about you to you all night about this. Afraid you would think I'm crazy. And talk to me. About what, Frances? Something evil is at the Myrtles. You are not safe there. Get out. Mitch is staring directly into Frances. His eyes can't. I love that place and I've spent everything. I have on it. If you won't leave, then for God's sake, be safe.

Don't mess with the place Don't have séances Don't try to conjure spirits. Are the spirits evil? Most of them are fine. But there's one that's evil. I felt it there myself. Are we really in that much danger? I'm afraid you are. Just don't focus on them. Don't give them any energy. And perhaps they'll leave you alone. Bam, bam, bam, bam. I always want to do that after every scene. Bam, bam, bam, always. Would you want to hear about your house? Yeah, yeah. There's. There's an evil entity in it.

So Frances didn't listen that well because at a later date, she actually had a science. And her husband at the time, Jim, apparently, like turned into an old woman. Like he looked like an old woman during the science. And there was a painting, a portrait. Oh, I wanted to ask you about it. Was there a portrait like a famous portrait they talked about at all? There was a mirror. Another mirror. So apparently there's a portrait. Maybe it's not in the house anymore.

There's a maybe it's like the more like not the non-living portions of the yeah. I'm just part of the tour so I'm sure that they went through it and maybe. So apparently there's a portrait that Frances would talk about in her book a lot that like looks like its its eyes are following you. You're one of those kind of paintings. And apparently at the end of the science, that portrait was it looked like the person and it was crying.

Oh, do you know what? Well, I don't know. It. It probably wasn't like the dining room was that imagine that's where they would have. No, because I'm thinking there's a portrait that goes up the stairs of Judge Woodruff scrolling through my photos here. There's. Yeah. Don't remember, I suppose. I don't recall. Yeah, no, that's all right. So there's an I won't go into all the rest of Francis's experience. Those are just some of the highlights.

I will mention that there's also, like Confederate Soldiers stories of like seeing Confederate soldiers. Francis has one of the book that I really love where she can see I can't remember. It's her or a friend of hers can see through the window outside a Confederate soldier. But if they go outside to look, he's not there. But if you look through the window, they could see him, which I just thought was a really I don't know. I just visually I think that's really interesting and cool.

And she she also had like friends and employees and experienced a number of things. One of her employees, this young woman, told her a story about the I think it was the judge who had lived there. She had seen like a spirit of him. And he would come into a room and they would have sex every night. And she was like, well, I kind of like it. So it's an interesting it's an interesting story. She Francis went through some things that are ghost related, that are actually also very dramatic.

But the Myrtle's is a big influence and it one of them which is she was going to host a prom for a a predominantly black high school and people in the area. She started getting like threatened in life threats and people would call and threaten her and hang up. And members of the KKK threatened her with stuff and she kind of hung to her guns and had to like trick them to be able to pull off doing that during the prom.

Another thing that happened is her her marriage fell apart while she was there for over ten years. And the book and you know, I don't know how much the book I'm sure she will say it's true, but it seemed like the the hauntings and the experiences she was having with the paranormal at the house is what led to the downfall of her her marriage. And she really ends it in a way of like her escaping, even though she lived there for ten years.

She kind of ends it on this dramatic kind of like escape from the property to get out of there because it was such a terrible thing for her life. And ah, she and her husband both still. Alive, I don't know. But her husband, she is okay. So I've read some interviews with her. I think she's even been on some podcasts as well. But yeah, I encourage you as much as I'm like I don't do a follow up episode, right? Yeah, it would actually be really nice to talk to her because it is a good book.

As much as I'm like, I don't know if I believe everything in it. Yeah, it is. It is a good book. And there are she even mentions like The Amityville Horror, but there are some connections, which is partly why I'm like some of the things I'm skeptical of because it's like, Oh, this is a very well narratively sort of told. Yeah, haunted house movie. Did you copy paste. Yeah. Or not even not. Not necessarily like copy, but just understanding.

It's sort of the narrative beats of what you would want if like if this was to become a movie, you would want this kind of arc of a story. So, so it's interesting, but it is very good. So I do recommend people get it again. I'll have a link to it in the show notes now, now that I've covered some history and I definitely went on a tangent of her experiences, but I think they're all interesting. They all you know, they all color the story of the Myrtles plantation.

But walk me through your experience there. I guess, like, do or how have you put thought into how you want to share it? Oh, no, not really. I thought they were just go to kind of tell her, I wish there was something more kind of spooky that happened, like riches thing. I mean, he was setting out to try to record the sound of like I found on the stairs, that. Kind of thing. Yeah. And mine was sort of thwarted. But I mean, I'll get to it. Yes. Obviously, I went there and checked in.

This is kind of like on a whim when the movie was ending, I was like, well, I have some extra time. Got on in New Orleans, this is on the way. So it wasn't really like trapped with anything to do, any sort of kind of ghosts investigating. Yeah, I checked and got that sort of side of the house. I was really bummed to find out when I got there because I got there on a Thursday that they only do the ghost tours on Friday nights, and I had to be in New Orleans Friday.

So only do it on Friday night or. This was ten years ago. This was ten years ago. Yeah. So they still had the regular house tours. Oh, good, good. So they give you like a regular tour of the house. So I was able to do that because we have to see the property. It was really cool. I think the Prime story sounds familiar because what I thought was really cool about like the sale of homes. Is that like your time at that veranda?

Yeah, like all along that, like, you know, from the outside and you see all these like windows, but they're actually like doors and they open it all up and that's when they have like they almost have like, like a full on ball because like, it makes the living room spread on the porch. If you dance and like, you just imagine, like, oh, that'd be a great place to host a party and see. So we did the normal tours. They kind of touched upon a couple of ghost things, but not much.

Yeah. So those are a little disappointing. Yeah. And yeah. So I was just kind of in this other part of the house and I actually happened to meet staying up late to kind of feel the evening spirit as they're alone. And I actually met this other couple who is, I believe, visiting from Texas. So they're on a little vacation there. And then they brought some beers. We just kind of were hanging out in the porch and stuff and they were really interested in other stuff too.

So kind of got into some of that and there's the night sort of desk clerk who is actually the guy that gives the ghost tours. Oh yeah. So we were kind of talking him up and asking him for stories and he basically gave us an impromptu ghost tour. So he went and got the keys, you know, like, think we offered him some beers or something? Yeah, he was working, so he declined. Can I, can I pause you just for a minute?

Because I want to I want to understand this because I'm so I've been thinking about this every time I'm reading about it, I just imagine myself staying there because I would love to do that too. I think it sounds amazing. But like how when you do there, because there are tours throughout the day, how do you sort of navigate that? How do you do you have to only show up at a certain time when you're staying the night. I think there's.

A normal check in like 11 because the tour was basically all of the kind of public areas of Dallas. So the way that it's like a two level home. So like my half the or the section that I was in on the first floor, you know, had this grand foyer. There's like a, like baby grand piano under the staircase, the famous 17 step staircase. Yeah, there's that silvered mirror, which we'll talk about. And then there's the Gold Room that they no longer rent than you upstairs.

And it's kind of a master bedroom. And then the other portion of the house is like the lower level is like the dining room ballroom area like that sort of. I think there was like a kitchen and stuff. And then above that is where the other, I don't know, five, six, seven rooms that they rent out there. So that's sort of when they're giving the tours, it's on the first floor actually in the grounds outside. But our tours because we were it was just the three of us.

And then this guy like he got the keys, kind of took us around, you know, to tell us a little bit more of the stories. And we were able to go check my room and their room because we're, you know, it was our group. Now, what was really interesting, so as he was taking us around, like he had the key to get into like the public areas, but he didn't have the key to get into like to my area.

So there's two doors like on either side, there's one on the front, one in the back that lead to this mean for years. So whenever he would we would go to like a place you can need your key. I don't have one of these keys that's you know for the guest security. And so I went I gave him my key and we went in there like for some reason, like checked the knob beforehand and it was open.

Yeah. Which is like the thing with these locks though is like they're the way they're made is they auto lock behind you. Like every time I left to go anywhere, I had to constantly use the key. Like, it just you can't, like, unlock it and leave it open. Guy locks behind you, so he's like, Oh, what kind of cars? He was like, One of the ghosts left it open for us, which. Was really weird. And kind of unnerving. Then the second the door closed, we checked and it had locked itself again.

Like, yeah, we had like the husband of the couple like stayed outside and we closed the door earnings again. No, it's like what he pointed out, which was really interesting is that all the keyholes of the house are upside down and that's to confuse ghost. Oh I going on about that in something. Yeah you know there's, I've always heard stories of that and I don't know if it's part of why, but I always also heard, you know, cause I'm from that from an Irish neighborhood.

So there's little quirks, you know, that like in Ireland, I know if that's their superstition but that's they install locks upside down same with light switches are inverted there interesting. So in our neighborhood because a lot of immigrants came over from Ireland like a lot of the houses, everything's kind of like flipped. So I don't know if that was like a superstitious thing that carried over or if it's two separate things.

But yeah, so I have a picture I'll go through and show you like of the keyhole upside down and stuff like that. So there's all these little like antique ghosts things that they kind of put in there and yeah. So then he took us into, you know, the Gold Room and showed them that and they were in on the tour earlier, I don't believe. I think they got there later. Then we went up to my room. He kind of told us the stories there. So like. Yeah, what was your room?

So it's the story. My room is like this really big. It's very large, like have open room and there's this really creepy, skinny hallway that goes down the length of it to like the bathroom. And at the end of this hallway is like a window with a shade pod. So it's just this really eerie. Yeah, like straight out of a horror movie. Like, any time I had to get up to go to the bathroom and walk down this hallway, and there's a window at the end. And I was constantly worried I was going to, like,

walk there and just see a silhouette. Yeah. You know. And just have to, like, bolt out of the place. And there's a big four posts old style bed like kind of tucked in the corner. There's a fireplace and everything. And some of the stories with with that room were that guests would be sleeping and they would feel like the mattress moved down as if someone laid down next to them and they would smell the perfume of like the lady of the house.

And I don't know which whose wife that was in the timeline of all the stories that that was like a frequent story that was told. I didn't have that experience. Did you did your room have a name? Because I know. Have name. Yes. There was the judge Woodruff. Oh, you sound like the judge. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I didn't have any obviously it was an impromptu trips. I didn't meet ghost things, but I did have like a Rubik's cube in my bag.

So I was like, I'm going to leave it on the fireplace and see if we wake up and it's solved. You never know. Yeah, but nothing. Nothing that happened. But it was funny because when I eventually did go to bed later on, we separated, you know, and you're in this room by yourself. Suddenly you're like, I want to see a ghost anymore.

And I literally had to sleep facing the wall because the four post beds kind of butted right up against the wall because just looking at the open room and then that hallway was just too way too terrifying. So it took me a while to finally fall asleep, but I eventually did. Sadly, I did not hear the book thing because after we got the Ghost tour, kind of stayed up late with that couple, even though I was kind of, I want to go to bed because I want to see if this sound is going to happen.

But they were wanting to take the ghost haunting thing, so we kind of sat on the stairs and the husband had his phone out and he was trying to do EVP recording. So he's asking questions and recording. And then we played it back, but we didn't hear anything. So he was trying to talk to the the various ghosts and spirits and like the lady of the house and stuff.

So we actually ended up staying up past when Rich told me because at that time I knew at the time was up staying up past that I think because we were awake, maybe the ghosts didn't want to show themselves. Yeah, but yeah. Part of the tour. Then we went over to their room, which was the Fannie Williams room and it's very like it was pastel colors also had a fireplace in there and it's also known as the doll room. Did you did you read about the doll? No, I did not. Oh, dolls scare me.

That is one of the things that does terrified me. So so this one, there's, like this old porcelain doll in this little dress, and he was showing us, like, old photos of the place and the claim, you know, like this. It's like it's expression has changed over the years. And I don't know if it's been touched up because, again, these are like photos of it. It's still I think it was in really good condition.

But the story with it is that people that stayed in that room were constant report, things like they would leave and then they would come back and it would be, you know, it's it's usually sitting on top of the fireplace mantel. It would be in like the doorway of the open door or. They would leave and go home and then open their suitcase and the dolls in their suitcase. And they would call and be like, What is your address like? We need to send this thing back immediately.

Somehow we don't know how long to open our suitcase, so it's like this creepy porcelain doll. Now, I actually it's funny because when I was before I got down there, I was staying at like a hotel on the shoot and it was in like a Wal-Mart parking lot. And they had one of those like claw machines, you know, in like the night the breezeway of the the Walmart. And I actually ended up like playing because I was just so bored.

Yeah. Yeah. And I got a stuffed, I guess it's a stuffed animal stuffed doll of Peter Venkman. Like this Ghostbusters. That's awesome. So I was like, we should leave this next to that doll and see what happens in the morning. Like if the ghosts are Pez, so there's a Ghostbuster down, it's all torn up or something. Nothing like that happened. We did leave it there overnight though. I have some photos of that which are pretty funny. Oh, that's amazing. But yeah, so most of it was just us.

I mean, I think I just felt like we'd stayed up too long, you know, like kind of waiting to go out and stuff. And so that was a bit of a bummer. But the door thing was, I guess the creepiest thing where that was unlocked. That is interesting. There is a story that Frances has in her books of one of the first times she I think it was after she had purchased the house and was there alone and she got like locked into a section of the house. Oh, yeah. I could easily like.

Couldn't unlock it and you know, whatever. But yeah, it's an interesting, interesting point. Now I don't remember what the story behind the Mirror was, but in that foyer of my suite or section of the of the house, there's this giant mirror. And supposedly they've had it silver too numerous times. But these handprints keep. Keep. Hearing. Yeah. Yeah. And now, like, when you look at it, it's kind of just like spots. You know, the handprints is a bit of a stretch.

And I don't know the science of like silver and mirrors and yeah, with different atmospheres. And now that I've gone through carpet recycling and you see how like moisture and different things affect houses, I don't know like how that all comes into play, but it's definitely makes for a good. Story and it does. Yeah, I've watched a lot of YouTube videos or focused on the mirrors and because people will film the tour. Yeah, I really try to like do the same as taking pictures and videos.

But they say something, there's a clue there what looks like. It's almost like three or four prints of a Paul like a scratch. Like scratch. And then there's like dripping that they say, you know, this looks like blood across the mirror. And also people do these things where they take pictures of the mirror and certain parts of the room will get, you know, interesting reflections, which the skeptic in me is like, well, yeah, you're taking a picture of a mirror or using a flash, or is it dusty?

Or There are people going in the background. There's a million things that can happen. Well, yeah, there's a sort of the mirror, especially for. Like for like smudges. Yeah. Looking in a mirror. But smudges allow your mind to kind of create things. But again, I don't mean that to be like it isn't hard because if it is, this is the place I love that Bill is showing me a picture of his Peter Venkman doll next to the haunted doll. Yeah, we're just funny because I'm looking at that and.

I was just on their website and it looks like they redressed. Redress. The doll. The doll? Yeah, because look it in this photo, it's wearing like a red dress. Oh yeah. That's a totally different. I was going to say it's just a different. That looks like a different doll. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So did they talk so they talked to you? Did they talk to you through the 17th step or was that something Rich just told you about? That was something I knew about.

And I think he told us on the tour, like we went over a little impromptu tour. He kind of went through and told us a bunch of those. Yeah. Did anybody talk about Chloe besides the earrings? Because I know you sell the earrings. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was a big part of all the lore of everything. It was everything that we'd already talked about, so much knew to report. Did anybody else that stay the night?

Did you get to talk to anybody like the next day and find out if they experienced anything? And I mean, other than that couple that we got to know, everyone kind of kept to themselves, really, and they didn't experience anything. The next day when I went back to retrieve the doll, it's funny as I don't know whatever happened to that thing just to give it away somewhere. Oh, maybe I just didn't pack it and schlep it back to. L.A. or something. I don't know.

I would love if Peter Venkman was in the Myrtles to this day. Oh, every great movie. Amazing. So do you have where where do you stand today in terms of the myrtles? I know you say you're in the middle of like believer, skeptic, whatever, but you want to believe you're. Yeah, I love. I love going to haunted places. Yeah, constantly. I love the tours of them. I'm always hoping cause I have so many friends that have firsthand experiences.

Yeah. And I'm always like, I want one to, like, see what it's like. And yeah. So it's like one of the things are like, I'll believe it when I see it, but I'm also really want to believe it's like I'm like Fox Mulder. I want to believe, yeah, everything presented to me yet. But also like when I'm in that situation by myself, staying in that room, trying to fall asleep. Yes. You know, your mind plays tricks on you and all of a sudden you're just like, everything is terrifying.

You can be the biggest skeptic in the world. And as soon as you're in there by yourself at night, I guarantee you 98% of you will. You know? Yeah, most people I mean, we always did. Ghost hunting kids. We live near Bachelor's Grove Cemetery, which was like the most haunted cemetery in the country. So we would go there. You know, they had the whole St Mary's, the lady in White Resurrection. Resurrection. Mary Yeah, that was another one near us.

But yeah, one of our friends, like we were, Dermot and I were like, You got to go. Into the. Cemetery at night. So we would drive out there and he would like to prove you have to do a grave robbing. They went in there and he just went in like it was nothing because he was super, super skeptical and he was like, You guys are morons. And like, we'll give you 20 bucks if you do like Don easy money and absolutely. I mean, their power of belief. Yeah, there is a. Point. So this is a great story.

When we were first trying to find Bachelors Grove Cemetery, me and a friend went and there's Bachus Grove Woods, which are like maybe a quarter of a mile away from where the actual cemetery and all the parking and stuff was. But this is, again, we're in high school, so there wasn't a ton of you know, Internet research or just most of those Chicago haunts. I guess you're 72 years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a great Chicago haunts that kind of laid out a lot of these things.

So you're just following the descriptions. And me and him were walking around trying to find the cemetery, and we were so freaked out that we were jumping at every sound. There was another group of people and okay, maybe it's not that bad. There's a lot of people around here. And then we later found out we're like, We're nowhere near this thing. So it's all just like the power of suggestion in our mind of just like where you are. So, yeah, yeah. Well, so my obviously I did not stay there.

So it's very different than the firsthand experience, but kind of where my were my conclusion if I even if you can even call it that with the myrtles plantation is is I still need to see more you know like I am still a skeptic, but even with learning the history and sure enough, when you learn the history of any haunted place, it's like, Oh yeah, that's not true. Well, yeah, that story is not true. Chloe is I don't think Chloe ever existed. I think those happened probably in the 1950s.

Someone started telling a story like we talked about earlier. The game of telephone, yeah. Develops this stuff. But even then, this is a plantation that is over 200 years old. There's been murder for sure. We know of one. Yeah, there's been. People have died of yellow fever. Probably way more than we know about because records are so terrible in the 1800s. It's a working plantation with slaves. And all we have is little anecdotal stories. How many slaves died? Yeah. And those.

Yes, that area of the place, they never even talk. About how many were treated poorly were you know, like to me there is something to say about an old southern plantation that is still around with such a vibrant, dramatic history to say that if ghosts are real, whether I believe or not, if ghost are real, I think the myrtles plantation should be on the list of, like, potential places. Like, even though you didn't even have, you're.

Still worth checking out. Yeah, I was still a cool building just in that kind of creepy in its own right. Yeah. So go find out for yourselves. Yeah. Any other final thoughts before we. You know, I'm trying to remember if there was like a ghost hunters show that did an episode. There's a lot of ghost hunters shows it. But I mean, like, I think the big one. It was either ghost hunters or especially it was it near the time you went? I think I think might have. Been here maybe.

Or after I forget. But I remember. If it was like they were when it was probably ghost. Hunters. Yeah. There was one that was like they were in like a cabin or something that I never even saw for. Well, there's the there's like the caretaker's cabin, but they now rent out and that's where supposedly, you know, a caretaker was murdered. Yeah, that might have been one that they were. So that might have been the one.

Which is weird because that's like, I don't know if that's like the most advertised story. It seems like the main house would have been more of a place to set things up. Yeah, well, I mean, maybe they did both. Maybe they did. I think I actually saw that. I think I saw the Ghost Hunters episode at Myrtle's. I think they were in both, but I think they went to a few different I think they were even outside trying some experiments and things.

What are your thoughts on the famous picture of of the slave. Scene in a while? Let's see. Turn it like I tried to turn my monitor. I mean, it's like there's a person there. It does. It does. You can kind of see through I was I was going to do this. You kind of remember I think I took a photo of that same area just to. The other one. There is a picture of a ghost in a window behind two women that I do not think is real at all.

Like I think someone used Photoshop and didn't even do a very good job. Oh, I see. So I have a lot of big issues with the picture of the girl in the window behind two ladies, because it looks like part of the glowing effect of the ghost is coming over there like the what do you call those things, window panes. Yeah. The yeah.

Because if someone's, if someone's using some kind of image editing system, they can't separate the curtains from the window panes to create two different layers and put a ghost in there. Yeah. I mean they could erase the ghost image from that. Yeah but they didn't because what it was and one of. The ghost has come in through the window and it's on the other side. It's a ghost. But yeah, I mean, do you if I was like $10,000, if you get the question correct, is that a ghost or not?

Now, I don't know if I could say it was a real ghost. I guess if the question was, do you think this was Photoshopped or not? Yes, a different question. That's it. Because that could be. Like what if it was just a weird reflection of something that was on the property? Then I would say if it's between like is it photoshopped or is it a real photo? I'd probably say it's a real photo if it's a ghost or not. I don't know. I wasn't there.

Yeah. And also, yeah, I feel like sometimes during the day, ghosts, I don't know. That they hang out during the day as much. Of course. I mean, if it's for real, I don't think they're picking times. That's my personal theory. I don't think that that photo is correct. And I know this is a podcast, so will include a link to this photo in the show notes. But it's one of the most famous photos of the Myrtles plantation with that little ghost of a little girl in a window behind to two women.

And see if you can hire a forensic for this. See if it's not Photoshop all the time and stuff. I personally, maybe this is just a good thought to end on. I don't know, but I personally don't try to use photography as a means to like prove ghost or not because I think there's so many fraudulent spirit photos. Yeah. And there's so many ways. So many ways to manipulate it today.

And obviously also I've been around film my whole life, like film and cameras and the amount of weird things that your camera picks up because of a strange reflection, because of, oh, if you're on film, something could be wrong with the frame, the way the light is reacting. The the chemicals on it can mess up for a variety of reasons. In digital photography, people show things in the darkness all the time and like, darkness is something. It's a light is creating something.

When there's not enough data there, it's so it's literally something is creating something. And that's why you get noise and dark digital images. And so it's like you can't you can't judge digital photography in dark. I know the photo we're talking about is not it's actually in the day, which does does help in that respect. But one of our photos that was Grove had like the orbs that, you. Know, we see. Again, that could be like light reflecting off of moisture. Buds, moisture, fog.

There's a there's literally an infinite amount of things. So it's like if you can look at something. Like the Peppers Ghost. Effect. Absolutely. But if you if you look at things scientifically, you can't say every orb is some sort of spirit or energy manifestation of something paranormal. And that's just again, that's just my personal feeling. But I love things and I want to find the truth behind them. And I do want them to be real.

So, like, I just want to I want people to open their minds and find new ways to to investigate it. Maybe it has to all be be personal experiences until technology can somehow catch up to it. But I guess to surmise everything is, visit the Myrtles plantation. If there are ghost, this seems like a good spot. Yeah. So? So check it out and we will end it at least our portion with Bill right now. Bill, thank you for coming on. Yeah, no problem.

I'm going. Oh. Before I in tonight's episode, something just happened to me that I have to share. I've already recorded with. I'm in my office at my computer and mixing sound. I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to say in the outro and record that in a minute and my office door just got pushed open from nothing. And my office door, if it's closed all the way in the latches on it, it's very hard to open. Like the handle is actually hard to turn.

You have to push, you have to put a lot of weight into pushing the door open. If the door isn't closed all the way and it just kind of gently shut, which I do have it like that a lot of the time it is still hard to open. It's an old door that kind of doesn't exactly correctly. You have to put a lot of weight into it. And it just got pushed open and and it got pushed open with some force. It wasn't, you know, wind or a breeze that just kind of lightly touched it.

It got pushed open pretty, pretty hard, which freaked me out because I'm listening to the Myrtles Plantation episode as I'm sitting here. The next thing that happened, just maybe two or 3 minutes later, I started hearing voices that I cannot pinpoint where they came from, and they sounded like they were in my office. Now, I'm not saying they're ghosts. I'm already racking my brain with all sorts of different possibilities of what that could be.

Maybe This even feeds into my theory of how suggestion can actually be a very powerful source of ghost experiences. But I'm a little freaked out and I thought everybody might enjoy to hear that. Thank you for listening to tonight's episode. We're going to have more spooky paranormal stuff throughout October. Also, we did not plug Bill's work with Bill right here, which is my fault. Bill is a co-founder along with Matthew Lillard, who you'll recognize his name from a ton of movie and TV.

They co-founded an independent movie studio called Midnight Movie Club, Midnight TV, and they're doing amazing things that I'm not going to do justice trying to explain. So please visit Midnight Movie Club dot com. I will provide links to that in the show notes as well. If you're into indie movies, if you want to work in movies, you want to have a say in the movies you watch. You should go check out Midnight Movie Club.

If you're enjoying this podcast, please subscribe rate or if you if you can, if you want to find other ways to support us so that we can keep making content for you, you can follow us on Instagram at a study of strange. You can email me thoughts, ideas, notes, stories I had a study of strange at gmail.com. And lastly, you can support us on Patriot. We have exclusive content.

There's a special giveaway going on right now with a personalized video, and you can find that through our website, a study of strange dotcom and also going to release some additional kind of personal scary stories on Patreon throughout October in Celebration of Halloween, the best holiday. Thank you all again for listening and good night.