Warning this episode contains details that some listeners may find disturbing. In 1841, under colonial rule, thousands of convicts from the United Kingdom were being sent to help settle the British island colony of Australia. One such convict was a man known for his quick temper, John Lynch. Lynch soon saw an opportunity to improve upon his harsh reality, but that opportunity required murder.
Soon, John Lynch couldn't help himself, and he's forever known as Australia's first recorded serial killer. This is a study of strange. Welcome back to the show. I'm Michael May, your host into strange Tales from history and other weird sayings. today I'm joined by my friend Kelly. Kelly. Hi. How are you doing? Hello. I'm good. How are you? I'm good. And this is very nice because I don't. And my friend Cara says now after Covid, that we've all forgot how to human. And that's very true with me.
I don't know how to socialize. So, my podcast is an excuse to, like, hang out with people. So thank you for being here and hanging out. Thanks for having me. You're very welcome. So we are going to talk about this first documented Australian serial killer. Do you have interest in true crime or weird old McCabe tales or anything like that? Unfortunately, yes I do. we we watch a lot of true crime and listen on the podcast, so. Oh, good. Good, good.
All right. Great. So I don't like to, you know, scare people or make people too uncomfortable unless it's part of the show. but, yeah, this is an interesting story. I it's become, like, my favorite subject of a study of strange, which is looking at older serial killers. I just find it a little fascinating. It also shows that human nature doesn't change, like serial killers are not a modern invention.
They've been around forever, under all the kind of typical situations that you still come across today. And so this is this was a fun one to dig into. And it's about a gentleman named John Lynch. And yeah, stay tuned to find out more about Australia's first serial killer. Do you have any questions about him? Before I start? I don't. the name sounds familiar. I think I've probably heard his story before, but it's been long enough that I don't remember. So.
Yeah, it was. It was really. I came across it. I don't remember how I come across these things, but I came across this story and then when I decided to do it, I, you know, you start with the basic Google search when you're like thinking of a subject. And I typed in Australia's first serial killer and like 7 or 8 other people came up and it was usually like people in the 1940s or 50s or whatever. But this guy's way back in the 1800s, the 19th century.
And yeah, let me give you a little background on his situation here. So John Lynch was born in Ireland in 1812 or 13 because documents work great back then, of course. And the land of Ireland was plagued by poverty, famine and political unrest at the time. And his early life was marked by hardship. And he found himself on the wrong side of the law, which was a common thread in the lives of many people.
And in that period there, at a young age, he was convicted for a minor crime, something that wasn't surprising considering his whole family were known to dabble in illegal criminal activities. So physically, Lynch was considered handsome and strong with dark hair. Even though he was, he was rather short, even for the time. He was about five foot three.
In 1832, Lynch's older brother Patrick was convicted of stealing sheep, and Lynch and his father Owen were also convicted for theft just a handful of months later. I'm not sure what they were stealing, because that's also something that's kind of lost to time. but yes, they were also convicted of stealing, and their sentence was a lovely, all expense paid trip to Australia. something that I would have loved to have done when I was 19, which is how old he was at the time.
But in seriousness, a lot of you probably know we talk about Australia essentially being a penal colony and the British sending convicts to Australia between 1788 and 1868, more than 162,000 convicts were transported, which is the name of the sentence transportation to Australia for crimes committed in Britain and Ireland, and they would work for the government or local settlers, and once their sentence was over, they had to pay their way back home.
But of course they usually couldn't afford that, so they had to stay in Australia. And the government was very happy with this arrangement because it helped them develop Australia. And I can only imagine fill it with, you know, white folk from the time, criminal or not. That was the goal of the government back then. Yay, colonialism. Fintan, I'm glad that you bring this up. sorry to interrupt, but I actually wanted to mention that.
But then I was like, I don't want to offend any of our Australian friends by immediately mentioning that. So yeah, yeah. No, it's people kind of. I knew vaguely about it. I learned more researching this story, and I actually found out also as well, because we always talk about Australia was like, oh, there's criminals in Australia and we make the jokes. But the United States was also a colony of Great Britain.
And thousands of people that immigrated to America were actually sentenced to transportation as well. So America is also home of convicts that were sent here to help settle the land, of course.
So the journey to Australia was arduous, unforgiving criminals were crammed into ship and ships, and they were facing months at sea under brutal conditions, and upon arrival, Lynch was assigned to a settler in New South Wales, James Atkinson, at the Old Berry Farm in Bongbong district of Berrima Bay, Berrima. I'm going to mispronounce everything today. If you're, a usual listener of the show, you know that I do that no matter how hard I try not to.
So I apologize to all the Australians listening to the episode today. So life was a convict. Life as a convict was grueling. A lot of hard labor up at Don, working through the night. it's essentially like indentured servitude, like a type of slavery at the time. So that's the basic setup for Lynch's situation being sent to Australia, working on the old farm and and I'll give just some basic information to kind of fill in some holes for people. So own John Lynch's father.
He died a few months after they were sent to Austria, because his father was also sent to Australia after they were convicted. But his dad was sent to, I think, Sydney, somewhere in Sydney. He was working, so they weren't in the same place. I don't even know if John was aware that his father passed away or not. He very well might have been, but I just don't have like records or documentation that he knew or commented on it at all. you Facebook or anything? No Facebook, no Instagram, no email.
And John Lynch was sentenced to seven years as a farm laborer. Some accounts say that he was sent to Australia for life. But, again, I think the more trusted sources I read said seven years. So that's what I think it was. And there's also sources that say they even know what boat he was sent on. But there's like conflicting evidence. So it was either the Dungiven Castle, the Asia or the Java. Those are the three ships that he was potentially on.
Again, records were not super fantastic back then, as you can imagine, and he might have been shuffled from farm to farm to farm during those years. not just the old Berry farm, but he definitely spent a great deal of time working that land. So 1836 comes around and he was laboring on Old Berry Farm. And as I mentioned before, it was, a farm owned by James Atkinson, who was actually he was a noted agricultural scientist who was very influential in setting up farming in Australia.
So he's a pretty big, pretty big deal for the time. But Atkinson died in 1834, and his widow Charlotte, remarried a man named George Barton, who was the overseer of the farm. So as soon as her husband died, she married George Barton. And Barton was known as I. I guess I don't have to be nice to the guy, but he was a dickwad. He was mean and never all the all the convicts is.
We're not fans of his because he was a very brutal, violent, mean boss, or overseer or whatever you would call him a few months after this marriage, Barton was held up on a road by a masked gang and robbed, and he was tied to a fence post, and they beat him really badly and sort of left there until a traveler found him. And a man named what was soon apprehended and executed for the crime.
But rumors were that John Lynch was part of the gang, and John Lynch was really worried that, he was going to get sort of outed to the cops or police is probably the best way to say it. And this is because there was another man named Thomas Smith who was also a laborer on the farm. He was arrested for stealing a saddle, but he was released without any kind of conviction or sentence or whatever.
So John Lynch was like, well, he must have been released because he gave them information and probably said that I had captured Barton and beat him and tied him to a fence post. So John Lynch gets super paranoid, and this is when some bad things start to happen. Thomas Smith is soon found killed, beaten and killed and stuffed into the hollow of a tree, and he was murdered with an ax, which soon becomes part of the legend and folk tales around the John Lynch killings. And Lynch was a suspect.
And I won't dive too deep into the investigation. But Lynch essentially got off. There was Muddy Waters about witness statements, and the judge doubted some of the evidence. And essentially John Lynch is is not convicted of any crime, even though he was suspected of killing this man and and, it's unfortunate because John Lynch was, not a good person, as we're about as we're about to find out in 1841, things change.
John Lynch is granted a certificate of freedom, and this is essentially a pardon, and it allows him some freedom, but he can't do anything he wants. He has to stay within a certain region. But he is he is a free man. But that's not necessarily a good thing, because it is really hard to come by work. And he struggled to find work, struggled to integrate into society after his years as a convict working these farms. And Kelly, this is where we get to our first scene. And I'm really excited.
This is a dramatic reenactment of a situation that just kind of it just shows John Lynch's personality. So if you can pull up scene number one that I sent you, I'll take this up for the audience here. So this is, a apparently a very true story about John Lynch, but he was involved with some sort of gang, some kind of criminal activity with three other men, and he wasn't super happy with them. And then he did something very crazy, and. Oh, God, Kelly, I'm going to apologize ahead of time.
This might be as much as I love telling these McCabe tales, I'm a dork. I'm such a corny dork. And this might be the corniest scene I've ever written for recreation, so you're welcome. ahead of time, why don't you read John Lynch? Okay, because he's. He's the star. I'll read to, like, stage directions. And the other, there's two gentlemen. They'll sound exactly the same because they're me. And you don't have to do an accent, but, you know, welcome to try.
I do a terrible Australian accent, so I'm not even going to try, because it just sounds awful. I know that my Irish accent is very not good, even though it's, like, pretty similar to the Midwestern accent that I naturally have to hide. So I don't know what that's about. All star. No, sorry. That's my exact right. That's my Midwest accent. All right, so here we go. So three men and John Lynch are sitting around a table in a quiet pub.
Lynch, get over to the Hopewell farm, and Robert, we already robbed it. There's nothing valuable left. Damn it. I'm the leader of this ragtag gang. Do as I say. Yeah, yeah, he's the boss. Listen up. The man pulls out a knife and holds it to Lynch's face. Rob the farm, lynch boy. Lynch looks at the knife. He smirks and reaches around to his side. Hey, that's not a knife. This is a knife. He pulls up a really large knife. Lynch then takes his own knife and starts stabbing himself.
What the. Yeah, you're you're crazy. The three men run out, of the of the place and Lynch lies bleeding on the floor, laughing. Incredible. Yes. Well, I had to put it. I had to put a that's not a knife. This is a knife into a story that takes place in Australia, even though I know I munch is Irish, but, So yes, that's my corny little scene. But it is a true story.
To the extent that John Lynch stabbed himself because he was happy with other criminals, he was, unhappy with other criminals he was working with. And he blamed, blamed, blamed as a wrong term. He went to the to the authorities and said these men tried to kill me and they were arrested and sent away because they believed, the authorities believe John Lynch was attacked even though he wasn't amazing. Amazing, indeed. Yeah. He's a he's very much a crazy, crazy Irish lad, I would say.
Now I started drifting into my Irish accent, which is not not good. that's not not bad. Oh, thanks. Thanks. If I kept going, it would only get worse. That's what. That's what happens. All right, so 1841, the year of a killing spree begins. Mostly, John Lynch would kill for financial gain. He was not, you know, killing for the fun of it. He was not killing for sexual reasons. And all these other things of the various types of serial killers that exist, Lynch was killing for opportunity.
That is, that is his M.O. for the most part. And the first killings are called the razor back killings. And he went to the Mulligan Ranch at Wombat Brush, which is just so Australian. I absolutely love it. And Mulligan used to be a convict himself. Before running his own farm. He and Lynch knew each other. And there's some sort of association with robbery or robbery where Mulligan would, like was a fence for stolen goods or something like that.
And the two have may have decided to restart their robbery practice and business together. So Lynch, had stolen some property from the old Berry farm, which, if you remember, that's where he was a convicted, convicted laborer. And he was taking this stolen property back to Mulligan. And on his way back, he ran into a gentleman named Edmund Ireland, who had a young helper, an Aboriginal boy.
And of course, because of reports at the time, they don't actually give him a name as which is not surprising for the times. And Ireland had a wagon in young bulls, and the wagon was full of food and materials, and Lynch spoke to them. They had some tea on the side of the road, and they agreed to travel together, which was a common thing. It's, you know, take a long time to travel back. Then, for safety sake, you would meet up with people on the road and travel together.
But Lynch had other plans in mind, and I'm sure everybody can guess what that was. In the morning after they met, Lynch took a tomahawk, which is now famously tied to Lynch and folk tales and folklore, and he snuck up behind the boy at a certain point and bashed him on the head. And Ireland was, you know, at somewhere else. He didn't see this happen. So he. Lynch then snuck up behind Ireland and did the same.
And then Lynch took the wagon and all the valuable items and set off to sell them in Sydney. Later Lynch came across a father and son, the Frasers, and they had, of course, also wagons and bulls and everything else. And Lynch partnered up with them to travel along as well. And at some point in this time period, someone showed up investigating the previous stolen wagon that Lynch had already taken to, to sort of sell. And, but I'm sorry, that was I just confused myself into the audience.
Lynch still had the wagon that he already stole, and so people show up investigating the stolen wagon. But I guess all wagons kind of look the same. I'm sure if I was back then, I would. I would argue with myself on that. But they didn't realize that it was the wagon Lynch had, which was nervous. And no serial numbers, no serial numbers, no Vin number on on on the wagon. And, the investigator was sort of told like, oh, no, we haven't seen that wagon. And he left.
But Lynch becomes paranoid and he's like the Frasers, the father and son team who are with him. He's like, wait, what if they catch on that? That's the wagon I have. So of course he has to do something about that. He hides the wagon and he ends up asking for help looking for his like lost horses or animals or wagon or something like that. It was the morning of August 16th, 1841 at a place got corridos
flat that this happens. Lynch asked for help from the younger Fraser, the boy, to go look for his horses. So they go off and Lynch had his trusty tomahawk by his side, and at a certain point he sneaks up behind the boy, hits him with, one solid, strong strike. He would later say that the boy fell like a log of wood, and which is just absolutely terrible.
And he returned to the campsite with one horse, telling the father that the son was still off looking for the others, but he looked for an opportunity, snuck up behind the elder Fraser, struck him in the back of the head, and again later commented that the unhappy man fell dead. He dragged the bodies into the surrounding bush. Got a spade? That's a shovel for, the youngins out there that may not know that term. and buried both the father and son.
And by the time he finished, it was late in the day. So he remained at Cordova's flat for the night. For the night. Look, I. Yeah, is is is a spade a shovel or is it just like that little flat thing? I think it's a little flat going. I think it's a little flat thing, but I still think it can be used synonymously, like for small shovels. I'm going to look it up.
yeah. Same. I think the thing is like, because that's not really the purpose of it seems like that would be a large undertaking to try to bury entire human beings with, like such a. Yeah, tool. Absolutely. And I'm sure he they weren't dug deep, that's for sure. so there is a the definition is a tool with a sharp edge, typically rectangular metal blade, long handle used for digging or cutting earth. The more you know, know. What did you find? well, I had a lot of typos and. It's not good.
So my question was, if a spade is a hoe and it turns out a spade and a hoe are different gardening tools. So just so you know, if everyone's wondering, a spade is apparently not a hoe. I'm also going to take this moment to, to take a little break and just tell everybody, that Kelly and I are both in the valley, the San Fernando Valley, the only valley. That's why they call it the valley. And it's 100 somehow degrees today, 110 degrees today. Yes, ma'am.
It's warm, and I have to turn off my air conditioner because of the sound and the fan in my office. And it is poof! I hope I'm. I'm hope I'm, like, making sense as I talk today is it is. There's a lot going on in the studio today. I think you are. The unfortunate thing is that no matter how like sound ready, you make your room. There's still all the traffic from the Burbank airport. We've had helicopters. Yep, yep. Never ending. It is. It's never ending. There's no way to do it perfectly.
but that's what you got to do. But, yeah, it's very hot, everybody. So I'm just going to use it as, like, I'm experiencing life in New South Wales in 1841 on a trail. They'd be hot, they'd be sweaty. It's, it's not easy to to be comfortable. And I'm sure that goes into a lot of this. So anyway, on August 18th, 1841, Lynch arrived back at Mulligan's Farm full of riches, which I'm sure was just some food and farm equipment and stuff. But that's valuable back then.
And livestock, of course, which I'm sure was very valuable. And John Mulligan's farm, I should tell everybody who who's actually there. So it's John Mulligan, who was in his early 60s, his wife. Sometimes I think the records don't know if they were legally married or not. But his de facto wife, Bridget McNamara, she was about 50 and they had two kids, John, who was 18, and Mary, who was 13. Now, John Lynch, good old Lynch boy. Here he started demanding money from Mulligan.
I think it was 30 pounds worth for the money he was owed for something. And they argue about it and Lynch gets upset and he ends up leaving and he goes to the Gray's black horse in, one would assume to bury his sorrows in his frustration and drink. But, that is not true. He actually buys a few bottles of rum. It goes back to the farm and says, oh, I'm sorry we argue. Let's, hang out and drink some rum. Now, there are alternate versions of this story, so I don't know which is true.
There's also versions that he sent the son to go buy alcohol that they like. He and Mulligan had like, come to some sort of understanding or like, hey, let's hang out tonight and send the son to buy alcohol. So something along those lines happened where John buys alcohol and he hangs out with the mulligans. And as the night went on, I'm sure they got a little tipsy on rum.
And Lynch asked for help wheeling in, firewood from outside, and he asked Mulligan's son, John, who was 18 years old, for help. So they go outside and Lynch returned alone, said, oh, the John's still out there helping with horses and stuff. But in reality, Lynch had killed him with an ax, hit the body briefly under some branches. Bridget, the wife, was kind of feel felt like something fishy was going on, so she told John Mulligan to grab his gun.
She went outside to look for her son and also, I think at some story she also got an ax or something like that, and John Mulligan didn't really. It's kind of hard to tell the story because we don't know exactly bit by bit, what happened. but in some accounts, John Mulligan goes and gets his gun, but before he has a chance to, like, hold it to John Lynch or realize what's going on, Lynch kills him with an ax.
Then he goes outside to the wife, and she had again, in some accounts, she's discovered her dead son. In some accounts she hasn't. But she does see Lynch with an ax. It's terrifying. She tries to run away. He trips or kills her, and the only one left was the 13 year old daughter. And even though I cover, strange McCabe tales on the show and I give a content warning, I'm not going to actually say what happened because I can't actually like it. It hits me too hard. But she did not survive.
even saying that just got me, like, shook up. So John Lynch not a good dude, in case it's not clear. and John then essentially took over the Mulligan farm after the family was all killed. He burnt the bodies, he spread the ashes across the property and he went to the newspaper. I think, like the next day, like he had actually put a lot of thought into this, and he put in an ad. I'm actually going to pull it up.
Yeah. So, so John Lynch goes to the newspaper, he puts in an ad he was claiming to be Mr. Mulligan himself, and the ad says, caution. I do hereby caution the public against crediting my wife, Bridget Mulligan or Bridget Robertson. because, yeah, I'm sure that was her maiden name, which is different than my research. I just realized, as I will not be accountable for any debts she may, she may contact after this date.
She having absconded from my place without provocation and taking some money with her. John Mulligan, one brush near Berrima, September 7th, 1841. So essentially. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So he is planting the seeds that she took off, left the family. And then I think days later he claimed Mulligan left to like the whole family is now out of town because she ran off and he doesn't you know, the husband didn't want any of her classic Wylie woman just taken out.
Contain them. Yep. Never know what they're going to do. By the way, absconded is such a great word and people need to use that more. I need to start bringing that back. That is, that is just a fantastic, fantastic word. So, John Donne Levy, John Donne, I just gave away what I was about to say. John Lynch changes his name to John Donne. Levy to hide his, you know, who he is. And he takes over the farm. Says it was left to him.
He hires workers who know his real name, but he trusts that they won't spill the beans on who he is and yeah, so that's the biggest that's the biggest murdery situation for John Lynch. But it is not over. His spree is about to end, but the last thing that happens is a gentleman named Kearns. Landrigan and Lynch had met Kearns Landrigan on the road, while traveling somewhere, I'm sure, you know, selling farm goods or something. And they get to know each other as they're traveling.
And John Lynch offers Kearns Landrigan a job on the farm. Landrigan was 27. And again, there's various accounts about what kind of happened here, but essentially, John Lynch offers him a job, sincerely saying, hey, come, come work on my property for six months, mend fences, build fences, that type of thing. But, but it goes haywire. And this is where our second scene comes in. Kelly. All right, so if you pull up scene dose, Excuse me, do you want to read Lynch again? Sure. Let's do it.
let me know when you're ready. Also. Great. Do you look very serious? I like it, I covered your face with this thing, so. And, oh, I'm doing the same thing. But that's more not. That's not to cover your face. That's. So I can actually read. I'm sure you're. No, no, you've got to be covering my face for visual reasons, to feel more comfortable where you are. All right, so this is, John Lynch. Lynch and Kearns Landrigan. They are sitting next to each other in a small wagon going down the road.
Lynch with the reins. I was headed to visit my brother, but I don't miss an opportunity for work. I'll start you on the fencing. There's a good deal that needs to be built around the bush. I can't promise great wages, but you'll be paid as well as I can afford. that's very gentlemanly of you. Wages are wages. And besides, I have money saved. Landrigan reaches into his pocket and pulls out a wad of cash.
Lynch eyes the cash, his gaze holds on a little too long, and the wagon veers off the road a little. Landrigan keeps talking. It's 40 pounds. After working for you, I can save up even more. Lynch kept his eye on the money as Landrigan put the cash back into his pocket. John? Yeah, yeah. So in some accounts, this is likely what could have happened because Landrigan apparently had, 40 pounds. I think some accounts at 60 pounds. But he's got he's got money, a wad of money.
Lynch could very well have noticed that money and just saw an easy opportunity to get that. Other accounts say that they started to, like, not like each other. Like as they're traveling down the road. Like, at first they were getting along. They're like, you're cool. Come work for me. And then, like, Lynch got annoyed. So we don't actually really know what happened and why it turned sour. But there are various things.
So the two camped for the night, and in the morning, Lynch pulled his classic Lynch move. He snuck up behind Landrigan, hit him with a tomahawk, likely killing him in one blow. Soon, a George Sturgis passed the area and found Landrigan hidden under some branches. Police recalled. I actually this is just again, so stereotypical. Australia. One account says that George Sturgis saw dingoes digging in the bush, and that's what put them on to the body. I don't know if that's true. I hope it is.
I definitely hope that that we would have no way of knowing. Like, I guess it's kind of like a dog. Yep, yep. other than other than Lynch getting away with all these murders previously or ongoing, there was one witness. So on their way back to Lynch's farm before the murder took place, Landrigan and Lynch stopped at an inn together for drinks and food, and a man at the end helped identify John, quote unquote. John Dunlevy, aka John Lynch, as being a traveler with this recently murdered victim.
And that puts the attention on Lynch. The police investigate, they go to his property, they go to the farm. They find, I think it's a belt. I think that belonged to Landrigan. Was there other items that belonged to him? And they start piecing together all these other murders that are currently unsolved to being investigated to this gentleman now known as John Dunne Levy.
And it sounds come comes out very quickly that John Dunne Levy is John Lynch who's also been suspected of previous murders and other crimes. And I got to give credit to the police because most stories when I do these like 19th century criminal things, obviously criminal science has come a very far away. And and I got to give it to credit to like colonial Australian investigators, like they did a full on investigation.
They got witnesses, they got evidence like they did a very good job with this for their time in mind. That's surprising. Yeah. Because normally it's like someone just shows up as well. Dead body. What can I do about it? Like, he looks like he's dead now. Yeah. Nothing we can do. but they put it all together, so good job for them. And John Lynch, aka John Dunlevy, was tried in the Berrima Circuit Court on Monday, the 21st March 1842. The trial was a spectacle. The courtroom was packed again.
As I say, sorry, too often in my show, there's no TV, there's no Instagram, there's no movie. So this is the entertainment of the day. People go and they watch. And the public was eager to see the man behind these gruesome killings. Court convicted sentence. His defense was weak and the jury found him guilty without hesitation. John Lynch was sentenced to death by hanging. His execution into a large crowd eager to see justice served.
Lynch reportedly showed no remorse, and this was very much a fitting end to a life marked by brutality. But before he was hanged, the reason we actually do know what we know about John Lynch is that he ended up confessing very, very soon to his hanging. Lynch confessed to a reverend and then to the police, and extensive details about his, confession were published after his execution.
John Lynch, Australia's first recorded, you had to say, recorded because there could very well have been previous ones. Is the first recorded serial killer, ten victims that we know of that he confessed to. But in reality, it actually could be a lot more that we may never know. And that is the story of John Lynch. That is my first episode back in the city of Strange in a long time, brushing off the cobwebs. Welcome back. Thank you.
and I tried to do I probably did it way too fast because I'm just so gosh darn hot right now. Yeah, it, unprecedented. I mean, it's precedented probably, but. Yeah. Yeah, we haven't seen this in a while, so I thought it was good. Good, good. so when you talk about your interest in true crime, what are the the typical stories you guys listen to or watch or view or get into? I used to spend a lot of time in my car, so I would listen to, I really like this podcast called Tell No One.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, you probably know. Yeah. Two ladies talking to each other. And, making very difficult subjects. Delightful in a way that I, you almost feel a little bit guilty about. Yeah. But I mean that's kind of the point of the true crime, right. Like you're not there to live it. You're not going through the traumatic experience yourself. But you can totally understand like why it's horrible. Yes. But, you know, like a train crash, you can't look away.
Yeah, absolutely. And I, I've had this discussion on the show before with various people and, you know, the, the fascination with true crime. Where does it come from? Why is it okay? And that sort of conversation and my, my opinions usually change and jump around, especially the more I do it. And I don't have a clear answer, but it does fascinate me.
And as people that are fans of my show know, I do find these older stories and I think I like the older ones because I am fascinated by how stories change over time. And I'm also I'm also very much I want people to know that these are not modern problems. These are not just modern bias. Human nature doesn't change a lot. Right. And and so, you know, when people say, video games are the problem and it's like this has always been a thing and, and even guy wasn't playing GTA. Yes, exactly.
He was not influenced by GTA at. Oh, this guy very much was an opportunistic serial killer. He wasn't he wasn't doing it for the fun of it. I mean, he might have he might have. We don't know enough about him to know, like, part of him could have, but it definitely seems like all his victims were opportunity. It was either out of paranoia that he was going to be caught for something else or out of I want that cash, so I might as well just kill this dude.
Right? And that's where he kind of fits in to the whole the whole world of serial killers. And it is important to say first documented or first recorded, because, again, there could have been more even, even before it was a colony, that there could have been serial killers out there because human nature doesn't change. And, and that's terrifying. I'm still fascinated by it, and I love the stories, but I'm completely terrified of it at the same time. Yeah, yeah. Agree. Agree to disagree.
No, I just wanted to I just wanted to say agree to agree. Agree to agree. well, thank you so much for doing this, Kelly. I really appreciate it. And again, this is just my way of hanging out with people, so I appreciate the time I love it. Yeah. Is there anything you want people to know? Is there any any day or do you just want to hang out. You don't have to say anything. Yeah. I'm just like chillin. Just chillin, chatting about things.
a question. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if maybe you looked into this, but. So he did a little confessing here and there, a little light confessing. Yeah. Were there any documented last words? Because a lot of times they'll be like, okay, before we hang you, we're going to write down whatever you said. You know, I think there I don't think so. I think there are accounts about what he was saying and what he was doing when he was killed.
But I think it said that like before he was hung, he was just kind of quiet and, remorseful. So I don't know if they were like, do you have any last words right before, you know, he he fell in the noose, grabbed his neck. but I do know that leading up to it, he was very quiet publicly. Maybe his last words were that he didn't care because otherwise, how would they know he was on remorseful? That's true. And that could it could very well be it. And again documents.
It's so fun doing these kind of stories because you see all these accounts when you research stuff or you'll read books and they'll be like, he said this to this person and he said this to this person. And then when you're like, okay, what are those? Where are you getting that from? And usually if it's like good writers, they'll reference like, oh, this is from the newspaper account and blah blah, blah. but a lot of times with stories like this, it's just other, other quote unquote accounts.
And so you don't know, like what's officially really did happen and you can really only make educated guesses. What's the telephone gang. Exactly, exactly. and that comes down to like, why we don't know why he, he murdered Kerns. Landrigan the guy. Like, it could have been because he saw the cash like we did in our very perfect, brilliant, recreation, which will win an Emmy. I just I already know I have that feeling it's going to win an Emmy. And, it could have been that.
Or also, he could have just been annoyed with the guy, or he could have just saw him and was like, I don't like the way that guy looks. I'm going to find a way to kill this guy. Like, we don't actually know because the documentation of it is not the best. So. Yeah. well, thank you again, Kelly. I really appreciate the time and hanging out and doing this for listeners out there. We will have more episodes. I took a big break, which I had to do for other things.
but there will be episodes consistently now through probably January. So hang around and listen to more strange, fascinating tales. Thank you for listening to a study of strange. If you haven't done so already, take a quick second and hit that subscribe button and please leave a rating or review if you're on Apple or Spotify. It really helps others find our show. A quick note right after we stopped recording today, Kelly mentioned she remembered why the name John Munch was familiar.
one of her and my favorite actors, John Carroll Lynch, is a well-known actor, and she mentioned that he's in the the film volcano, the masterpiece volcano, and gets eaten from the feet up. so just for fun, if anybody wants to see that scene, it is on YouTube. It's hilarious. And John Carroll Lynch is an amazing actor. So anyway, that'll do it for the show. Thank you for listening. It's great to be back brushing off some cobwebs.
We have some really exciting episodes coming up that I'm thrilled to dive into with various guests from around and various friends, and I hope you keep listening. Also, if you want more content or you want to have the podcasts early, check out our Substack, which you can sign up for. You will find that on our website. A study of strange.com under the support tab. Thank you again. Good night.