Pushkin.
There's this palpable excitement that occurs where you're all there in this moment together and something magical is happening and you're a part of it. You're fully engrossed. All of your senses are being pulled into this moment, and that moment is special.
Doctor Shira Gabriel is describing a form of awe called collective effervescence. It's the feeling we get when we experience something transcendent with other people, and it can have benefits for our mental health.
We find consistently that collective effervescence is related to being less lonely, feeling as if your life has more meaning, and feeling more confident in who you are. So across a wide variety of well being measures and social connection measures, we find that collective effervescence has a unique impact on people.
On today's episode, we explore the powerful science behind collective effervescence and how it's easier to find than you might think. I'm Maya Schunker and this is a slight change of plans the show about who we are and who we become in the face of the big change. Doctor Shira Gabriel is a professor of social psychology, and she studies the science of belonging. In recent years, she's turned her attention to collective effervescence.
What interests me is the human need for social connection, and all around me, I see these examples of people finding this sense of connection that we're studying our science, but in the real world and things like these fish concerts that I went to in my youth, and things like political rallies, and I would see video of people praying in large groups and think, Wow, this is so amazing, Like something is happening there that is important to them
above and beyond the activity that they're engaging in. And I really thought, gosh, we as psychologists should be studying this, like psychologically, what is the function of this, Like how is this feeling our basic need as human beings to feel connected to other people?
Yeah, can you walk me through how we first came to understand and name this concept of collective effervescence.
So this was Durkheim, who was one of the founders of sociology, and Durkheim did some work where he examined people from other parts of the world, from cultures he wasn't familiar with, engaged in religious rituals, and he made the argument that when you look at these religious risks, something is happening, something is boiling up that comes from people doing this together. And he called this collective effervescence.
So this idea that happens in a collective there are a lot of people, but there's something effervescent, there's something extra there, something bubbling up in these group scenarios.
I want to help listeners really appreciate the difference between collective effervescence and say other types of feelings of connection and belonging. So what is the criteria for something to be deemed collective effervescence.
So collective effervescence occurs when we're with other people who aren't necessarily relationship partners, and we have a feeling of connection to them, and we have a feeling that something sacred or transcendent or special is going on. So it's sort of the intertwining of those two different things, a feeling of connection to others and a feeling that something special is happening. That occurs when we're with other folks
who aren't necessarily our friends. You can have this experience if you're with people you know, but that's not necessary for it to happen.
A foundational part of your research examines how people respond to this particular experience called kululum, in which the thousand person audience is taught a choral arrangement of a song on the spot and then they sing it together.
Yeah. So Kululam has had events all over the world and all over Israel. And in one event, in particular, at the Tower of David, they used the song One Love by Bob Marley, and they took this English song and they rewrote parts of it in Hebrew and parts of it in Arabic, and they brought people from Israel. This was during a visit by an important Muslim cleric, and so they brought Muslims together and Jews together, and
Christians and people who are without traditional religious faith. And they have people who speak English and Arabic and Hebrew and learn the song in all three languages. So really bringing people together and merging these worlds in this magical and very smart way.
What do you think Shira makes kululum a particularly unique and special form of collective effervescence.
Yeah, I mean what they have done without knowing it is basically taken every single thing that would give a person a sense of collective effervescence and supercharged it. So they're bringing together people who don't know one another, they're giving them a joint focus, teaching them a song. They use songs that people have heard before and are familiar with.
So basically every single thing that we would say like, oh, that could increase the likelihood of collective effervescence, they've done all those things.
Yeah, and you know, it strikes me that this is a very active experience for all group participants, right.
Yeah.
Obviously at concerts we can sing along cur favorite bands, but in this case, every member is contributing to the music. So what role does that active versus passive element play in the feeling of effervescence.
You can feel collective effervescence without being actively involved with just sort of passively watching something. But again, you're going to really increase the likelihood that you do when you're actively involved in something like in this case, you're actively involved in the whole thing. I mean, you learn the whole thing, you sing the whole thing, you're in every moment with the people around you. But even in these events where you would think people are just watching people
are doing way more than that. So you know, when you go to a football game, you're not jumping in there and like catching the ball or running down the field. They'll arrest you for that. But they do get the crowd into it, right, so everybody screams when your team is on defense, so that the quarterback can't be heard. And every team has like chance that the fans do and songs that they sing, and some stadiums do the wave. Every stadium has their own ritual, like they're made to
feel like they're a part of it. So Kululan really super charges it and they do it in this beautiful way that is totally designed to be a positive experience that enriches people's lives.
You know, it's interesting share because music isn't a prerequisite for collective effervescence to occur, but it does seem to really foster a ripe environment for that feeling. What makes music special and what do you think makes music so likely to create a fertile environment for collective effervescence.
We've done some research in the lab that my students are hopefully writing up right now, where we've looked at the relationship between music and collective effervescence. And what we've found is both that musical events are way more likely than non musical events to cause collective effervescence, and that events that have collective effervescence, if you look at them, have music in them, even if they're not musical events.
So there's a really strong link between music and collective effervescence. So, you know, even at I keep coming back to football when I'm talking about this, but as a Buffalo Bills fan who's getting excited for the season, it comes to mind. But even at these football games, you know, there are certain songs that everybody sings. When I lived in Chicago was a Cubs fan, you know, you had to sing
during the seventh inning stretch take me out to the ballgame. Like, even these events that are not musical have musical components. Religious ceremonies have musical components. If you go to protests and marches, people sing songs. So a great question is why what is it about music that is so important for collective affrovescence. And there are a few things about it. One is that it brings people together. So everybody when
you're singing together, playing together, listening to music together. It focuses you on one thing, and being focused on one thing increases the sense of collective effervescence. Another one is that it actively engages you in it. So you're singing, maybe you're clapping, maybe you're dancing. You're actively engaged in something. And then the third thing is that you are doing similar things to the people around you. Not only are you singing, but they're singing. Not only are you dancing,
but they're dancing. Maybe you're clapping in rhythm. Maybe you all have your arms in the air. Listener, I raised my arms in the air. So all of those things that you do are things that connect you to the other people who are there.
What has your research shown about the impact that collective efforvescence has on our psychology?
So we find consistently that collective effervescence is related to being less lonely, feeling as if you're life has more meaning, and feeling a stronger sense of yourself as a person, feeling more confident in who you are. So across a wide variety of well being measures and social connection measures, we find that collective effervescence has a unique impact on people.
How long after an event does the impact of collective effervescence last.
So our research suggests that these are longer term effects, that this lasts for a while. There's some really cool research that came not out of my lab but out of other labs that looked at like burning Man events and found that people had positive effects from those sorts of events. A year later, like a full year later, you still saw the positive effects from people being at large collective gatherings. So that data from other labs, in addition to data that we've collected in our labs, suggests
that these effects linger. They don't just happen during the event. There's like a glow that we take from them that we can carry with us when we're feeling sad or down or lonely or as if life is routine. If we're smart, what we'll do is we will relive those events, those important events from our past, and we get that boost, that reminder that we are connected to others and that life is special, and that will increase our well being.
Yeah. I love the economical impacts of this, which is you pay for the tailor's swift tickets once, but it's the gift that keeps on giving, right and By the way, if you're like me and spending your weekends in large crowds isn't always your thing, I've got good news. You don't need to be in a big group to feel collective effervescence. After the break, I talked to Shira about how we can find it in everyday life too. We'll be back in a moment with a slight change of plans.
I'd love to talk a little bit about how accessible collective effervescence is to all of us, because, you know, I think when we intuitively think about collective effervescence, and you were talking about this earlier, we do think about these large, stadium size events where we're really surrounded by thousands and thousands and thousands of people. And one of the most interesting parts of your work to me is that we don't need to attend these large ethic events
in order to feel collective effervescence. Right, They can happen in these everyday moments.
We think of collective effervescence as happening in these large scale events, and that's because it happens so much easier in those large scale events, so they really prime it in you. But people do experience collective effervescence and other events. And so people in our studies have reported, you know, they're waiting in line somewhere and something sort of funny happens, and everybody gets into like a little conversation while they wait in line, and they get this feeling that life
is special and they're connected. One participant told us that they're on a bus and if the bus like drives by something exciting or something different or something weird, and everybody on the bus sort of notices it, that they get a feeling of collective effves since they feel like they've formed a connection with these strangers and it feels good and it stays with them. It brightens their day
to have that kind of thing happen. Even moments that we think of as negative, like being in the airport and waiting for something, if something sort of special happens, it can draw us in and give us that feeling.
Well, you just read my mind about my experience. So a couple of weeks ago, I was at the airport and waiting for a Southwest flight and we're all just gathered and the Southwest attendant was giving us updates on Okay, your flight's going to be delayed by this long and whatnot, and everyone is kind of baseline irritated because we're all waiting in an airport and our flight's delayed. Sure, and she randomly begins singing you are My Sunshine, and I
was so who moved by this. It instantly brought a smile to my face the faces of everyone around me, and we really did feel united and together in this moment. There was like a moment of solidarity. And it was interesting because I was reflecting on my experience, my individual experience of collective efforvescence, and what I realized is that I actually feel a more powerful form of it in
these unexpected, smaller, spontaneous moments. And I think it has something to do with the expectations I'm carrying into that situation. So when you buy concert tickets, when you go to a show, there's an expectation that you will feel connected to these other people because you at least know one thing about them, which is that you all love this artist, you all love this movie, you all love this politician
that you're rooting for. What was so special to me about the airport experience is that the only thing that really connected all of us in that moment is that we all had a flight that was leaving that morning, right, and so there was a wonder in feeling connected to this group of people that I really wouldn't have felt
connected to otherwise. And so that was just an interesting observation I had, at least about my own experience, which is, Oh, these smaller moments actually give rise to a more powerful version of collective effervescence than the large, stadium filled experiences.
Yeah, I love that. I love your story, and I think that that's a great example of collective effervescence. And I also think it's a really cool observation that, like, the moments that sort of surprise us are that much more impactful because we don't expect it to happen, and
so it's like a gift. And one cool thing is that we have control over that to some degree or another, maybe not in our own experiences, but we can gift that to other people, like that gate attendant gifted that to you all, Like that totally attendant took a risk and did something super goofy and could have just gotten weird stairs but instead created a magical moment, And like we all can do that, like that's a human superpower. Like when you're waiting in line and everybody's getting cranky,
you can do some weird thing. You can start talking to strangers, you can start telling jokes. I find that I do it to my children's disgust and embarrassment all the time. Right, But I think there is so much joy and wonder in being able to step into other people's lives and hopefully provide just a few people with a cool moment. Even if that moment is like, oh my god, look at that crazy lady talking everybody near
her like I'll try and avoid her. It's a moment that people can share, and it's like such a wonderful, enjoyable thing to be able to be a part of.
Yeah, I mean, I so share this feature of your personality. I'm sure I've embarrassed so many people that I'm friends with because I do have this tendency. I usually like to just kind of break the ice or I don't know, make an offhanded joke or whatnot, just comment on the situation. And I feel so warmly embraced by you in this moment because you have licensed this otherwise, you know, very embarrassing tendency. So thank you for that. Sadly, now I will do it more. So, this is a little bit
of an interesting one. So there had been experiences in the past where I have attended large events and I haven't felt that feeling of connection and it actually leads
to an intense feeling of alienation. And so what advice would you have for people who don't find themselves feeling that sense of connection for whatever reason, or in general struggle to kind of lose themselves in these more traditional concert, sports, dance venue type things, because sometimes I do feel it's hard for me to get lost.
Yeah. Yeah, it's almost worse to be in that situation and not feel it. To feel like people around you are feeling it and you aren't, That it's there and you expected it and you don't is a really lonely feeling. So I think when you're in that circumstance, if you and I right now can give a gift to anybody listening to this, it would be to remind them that we all have that experience. Yes, and when you're in that moment where you feel like everybody's connecting except for you,
everybody is not connecting except for you. There are other people there who feel the same way. They're just not salient to you. And you know what, every single person in this world sometimes has that experience where they don't. So I haven't tried this yet, but because of this conversation we're having, next time I'm in that circumstance, I'm going to think to myself, I am now connected with every person whoever has felt isolated at an event.
I have.
I've heard of a collective of people who feel alone like no one here understands them.
Yeah, there's connection everywhere you look. I love it. Look, And I think this speaks to one reason that I was so drawn to your approach to this work, which is that you're really not prescriptive about how it is that people should be in this world, and you take a very non judgmental approach to how people populate their lives with these experiences. So one thing I've heard you say in other context is don't judge yourself. Yeah, don't judge yourself for the social experiences you seek out or
the ones that you resist. So, like, tell me a little more about that, because I loved it when you said that. I think we all have this inner critic that's like why don't I get out more? Why don't I do this particular thing that I see bringing other people joy? And part of my goal with this show is for us to be just like a little bit less hard on ourselves when it comes to what constitutes our day to day lives and experiences. And so, yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit more.
Oh my gosh, one hundred percent. So you know, my background is a researcher in the need to belong and I specialize in studying non traditional ways a feeling the need to belong, and one of them is this collective off revesence that we feel when we're with other people. We're with strangers, we're with a group of people. But this is not everyone's gig. There are people who hate crowds, hate, hate, hate being in a crowd, hate being with other people,
just don't like these sorts of things. And that is one hundred percent fine. The bottom line with what we have found in our research is that there are many ways to feel connection to others, and there are many ways to feel as if life is special. And you know, we have a lot of research suggesting that engaging with narratives like watching your favorite TV show or reading books or watching a movie fills the need to belong and
that's good. It's not bad. And so if you are someone who gets exhausted from large groups of people and just wants to do that once in a while, but most nights wants to like binge watch the office while you puddle with your cat, you are not being anti social, You're being social. Those are both social activities. The show
and the cat social activities. So a huge problem with our society is we look and we see other people on social media and in the world enjoying themselves and being fulfilled in these very public ways, and we think there's something wrong with us if that's not our gig.
And I think in my own experience, one thing that's been helpful is recognizing that we can see changes within ourselves around those preferences over time. As I get older, I don't thrive as much in a crowd setting. But it just took me a while to consciously realize, hey, Maya, you've changed. And so if you're not getting what you used to get out of those crowd settings, that's okay. Maybe it's a Southwest terminal that's going to give you
your collective effervescence. So yeah, I do think that we should be very exploratory about the various ways that we might be able to find it. I mean, it's so funny. I was talking with my producer Tyler just yesterday and he said, you know, I felt collective effer vescence yesterday waiting in line to pick up my kid from school. Right, It's like, that's a very boring experience to be waiting in line. But he looked around, He's like, Okay, all of us have these kids, all of us have the
trials and tribulations of parenthood. Like we're unified in this way, and we're all excited to pick up our kids because we want to hear what their first day of school was like, for example. So yeah, you know, you mentioned at the beginning that all of this work, like the heart of collective effervescence is our human desire to belong. I'm curious to know, beyond the benefits for any given individual, what is cultivating this feeling or experiencing this feeling more due for society at large.
This is a really really important question because we live in a world where a lot of the traditional ways that we feel connected to others have fallen away, So people are more likely to work at home, for example, or more likely to work in front of a computer rather than working with other people. We're less likely to have a lot of those face to face interactions. People are way less likely to belong to churches and synagogues
and temples than they used to. And you know, without having any judgments about whether religion is bad or good, the fact that it brought people together and gave them a sense of community is good. And when we see this very fragmented world that we live in right now, where people are dehumanizing people who disagree with them on
politics or other issues, it's worrying. So I do think getting yourself out there has a real possibility of reminding us of the connection that we have to all human beings and to everybody on the planet, not just the people who we encounter in our little bubbles. It's one of the things, frankly, that I love about being a
Pills fan. I've got to find things that you love and your team hasn't ever won a Super Bowl, and one of them for me is that I know when I'm at a Bill's game that I disagree with a good portion of the people there about pretty much everything, but there's something that we share, which is a love of this football team and these players, and we're all
at this event together. We're united in this moment. We're feeling collective effervescence together, and it is for me personally, a wonderful reminder that we're all connected, and it seems that we need that more than ever.
Hey, thanks so much for listening. If you like this episode, you might enjoy my interviews with psychologist Daker Keltner and violinist men Kim. We'll link to them in the show notes, and stay tuned for an extra dose of awe. Next week, we're going to revisit my conversation with author Michael Pollan. He talks about psychedelics and their potential to unlock all inspiring experiences. A Slight Change of Plans is created, written,
and executive produced by me Maya Schunker. The Slight Change family includes our show runner Tyler Green, our senior editor Kate Parkinson Morgan, our sound engineer Andrew Vestola, and our producer Tricia Bobita. Louis Scara wrote our delightful theme song, and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals special thanks to Kululum for letting us hear a bit of their music
in this episode. A Slight Change of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industry, so big thanks to everyone there, and of course a very special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow A Slight Change of Plans on Instagram at doctor Maya Schunker. See you next week.