BONUS: Eric Vetro Helps Maya Find Her Voice

times in a row. Go me may me, may me, may me, may me, may me, may me, may me, me me me me me me me me me me me me may good. So I would say to you, take a little bit deeper breath so you don't think about running out of air as you're doing it. So now do it again with a deeper breath. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me Hey, Slight Changers. That's Eric Fetro. He's a vocal coach to some of the most famous pop stars in the world, and you just heard him giving me some

tips for how to keep my voice fresh. For a slight change of plans, Eric shares his secret sauce from making the stars shine on his new Pushkin show, Backstage Pass, and I wanted to invite him on to talk about the inspiration for his show. Eric, I'm so delighted to have you on a slight change of plans to talk about Backstage Pass, and I want to give you a little backstage glimpse into the first time that I heard

about you. So we have a mutual friend Michael Lewis, and I was at his home for a dinner and he said, Hey, Maya, I'm I'm doing this really cool new thing for my podcast. I'm actually learning how to sing. And I'm like, Michael, stay in your lane, buddy, all right, Like come on. I was worried that he was having some sort of Michael Jordan basketball to baseball pivot. I was like, writings to Forte, you're crushing it, like whatever. But then he said, no, no, no no, no, this is

like legit. I'm working with Eric Fetro, who has coached people like Arianna Grande and Shawn Mendez and John Legend and my ears Perkuck because I'm a pop star fanatic. But then my second thought is leave it to Michael Lewis for his first voice lesson ever in the world to be with the best voice teacher of all time, like of course, right, And so I listened to the voice coaching episode that you did with him, and it

was enchanting. I mean, it was so delightful, first of all, to see my friend whose vocal abilities I had very much underestimated. No offense, Michael, he and I share poor vocal ability, but yeah, it was such a delight to see your petagagy shine through, you know. And I was so delighted when I found out that Pushkin was going to make this into a show, you know. So that's how I heard about you. And as you know, I'm

a huge fan of your show. But I would love it if you could just share with listeners more about the inspiration for Backstage Pass from your perspective. Oh okay, Well, first of all, thank you so much for that intro, and you know, I would love to before I talk about Backstage Pass, just say to you your podcast is so brilliant and so important. I mean, I'll just tell you personally from me, I've seen a lot of people

have to pivot in their life because something happens. And I know your story that you injured your hand, but that changed you from having a career as a violinist, right, And so I remember when I heard about your podcast, I was like, oh my god, I have to listen to this. This is amazing. And when I went to NYU, I was a music major NYU. There was somebody at the music school who was just not a very nice person.

He just was always angry. And at one point I realized he seemed angriest that people who played the piano, and that seemed odd to me. And one day I was talking to somebody and I said, you know, he is so nasty. I just don't like him. He so mean. And they said, well, you know after what happened to him, And I said, oh, I don't. I don't know what happened to him. He was on a real path. He was a very, very gifted pianist, and he was on

his way to becoming a major concert pianist. And the irony of the fact that he was at his piano teach his apartment and there was an accident and the nerves of both hands were severed and he could never play again. And they said, so you just got to cut him some slack. And and I did, you know, have a lot of empathy for him. I couldn't imagine how awful that must have been, and how dramatic and

all of that. But by the same token I used to always think in my head, but he could have turned that into, you know, being more empathetic to people and kinder to people and do something else. Why does he have to be so mean? So when I heard your show, it immediately brought I hadn't thought about him

or that for years, but I thought about it. I thought, this is a brilliant show because it really shows people that sometimes we're spun into a different direction can be a much better direction that really puts our life on a much better, richer path. So anyway, my hat's off to you. It's really a great podcast and I love it. So I just have to say that, get it out the way saying that it's amazing. Yeah. Anyway, so backstage

pass all because of our friend Michael Lewis. You know, I was talking to him one day and said, you know, I'd like to write a book and include some of my experiences with my students, what I've learned from them, what they've learned from me, but what we've seen that happens as you're going along in life, you know, because careers take on oh so many different aspects that you would never even dream of when you're just like a

music student in school or taking voice lessons. You just don't know what's involved and building a big career and maintaining your voice and tainting the career. And he but I never wanted to write that because that would be an infringement on my personal relationship with them, you know. So I just thought, well, that doesn't feel right, and I don't want to go to them and say, can I talk about this incident or can I talk about that?

And he said, Eric, everything you're talking about really should be a podcast. And I realized, oh, yeah, if they're talking about it and they're saying it, then it's okay because it's their choice, it's their words, it's their voice. And so that's what really got me excited about doing it. And the other thing was that each person I called said almost the exact same thing Arianna Sean Kabila. All of them said, Wow, I wish I had this when

I was younger. I wish I could have heard pop stars that I looked up to, or artists of any kind songwriter as an artist talking about what it took for them to get there or what it is, you know. Just even John Legend talking about what he eats before a performance, that's really helpful to people to go, oh, let me try that, let me do that, you know.

And I'm hoping that in their stories, even though it's about them in their career and it's a vocal career, that it's inspiring to anybody who's listening to go, well, if these people who have a lot of talent, let's face it. I mean, Arianna Grande was born with a beautiful voice. But if you find out that she is working at it so hard, so many hours, thinking about it all day before she goes on stage performing, she doesn't just wake up and sing, She really works at it.

I'm hoping that will be inspirational to everybody listening whatever their career is, to go, oh, I'm going to put in more time and effort into my own career. So I'm hoping it's inspirational on that level. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And one thing that really resonated with me about the show is that it does transcend the specifics of voice and music. It's really about perseverance when it

comes to achieving our long term goals. And it's so top of mind for me right now because actually the episode that will follow this promo for your show is an intern I did with Professor Angela Duckworth, and she's made an entire career out of studying grit and what it takes to really get to these elite levels. And what you find is that, like you said exactly, talent

will only get you so far. The sustained focus and deliberate practice and attention and care and you know, Ariana Grande whatever taking vocal rests when she wants to be hanging out with her friends. You know, like just constant management of your faculties. I mean, I think that's basically a core part of every person who achieves world class levels and anything. And society is so seduced by raw talent. We we love the idea, oh she just has a

special something about her. Oh he's got it. He's a natural. But then what your show is doing is it's pulling back the curtain and saying, Okay, sure they got a bit of a headstart because they've certainly, well they got a lot of a headstart because they've got remarkable talent. However, when you look at the grit behind the scenes, I mean, you will never say that they had an easy rise

to the top, not at all. And to find out, you know, even like the episode with John Legend, you know he has been successful for so many years doing concerts and recordings and everything else. The fact that he's taking voice lessons now to improve and to be able to maintain his voice, to me, that's so inspirational. That says anybody in whatever field they're doing, we need to

stay on top of it. We need to keep ourselves up with If you're a doctor, you want to keep up with all the medical advances that are being made. You can't just go, oh, I learned that in college and then that's it. I don't need to study anything else or learn anything else. And so that's what I'm hoping that it really anybody listening goes, oh, wow, these people are doing that and they're reaching that high level of success. How can I apply that in my own life?

You know? You know, Eric, you have such an intimate relationship with these stars and it comes through in the vulnerability that they show on backstage pass And I want to know, what's something new that you feel you learned from some of your guests that actually had never come through in the friendships that you had shared with them, or the you know, the voice lessons you had had, but that only became present when you're recording the show.

You know, there's not so much that I've learned as much as it's reinforced or reminded me of you know what I mean. So I'm so much in the present. I try to really stay in the present moment, what's going on, what's going on with someone's voice right now,

that sometimes I don't think about the past. And so when I've been talking these people, you know, who are my students, and we've been through a lot together and they bring up things from the past, it triggers a lot of memories in me and I go, oh, yeah, we really have come a long way. So that I'm looking at them where they are right now, what's going on with their voice, and how to help them right

now this moment for the future. But when they talk about things in the past, it's really renewed all of that feeling of oh, wow, we really accomplished a lot and did so much together. And it's such a great feeling because they'll say thank you, I couldn't have done this without you, and I always go, well, but it's you, your talent. Without your talent, without your dedication, without you working hard, you wouldn't have gotten here. But when they bring it up and say it, then it really it

makes my heart sing. I really get excited by that because it's it's a wonderful feeling to know how appreciative they are. You know, Sean Mendez referred to you as his therapist first and foremost right and in the interview you did with him, And what do you think it is about the voice that ends up fostering such an intimate relationship between voice coach and student. Well, I think

it's there's a couple of reasons why that happens. One is that you are vulnerable with your voice, you know, because especially if you're a singer or you're an artist, and you really that's what you want to do with your career, that's what you want to do with your life. That's your instrument, and it's really valuable to you because

it becomes everything to you. It's not only your way of communicating with your friends and family, but it's communication with the world you know, and your voice you get so because you hear it all the time. We are hearing our voice constantly, and people who perform hear it not only in their head but on recordings, They watch themselves on videos, so they're constantly aware of how their voice sounds and they want it to sound the best

they can. So when they're working with someone who can help them with that and help them improve it, I think you become bonded in a way that they're not going to be bonded with everybody else. They'll be bonded with other people in different ways, but we have a special bond that they're not going to share with anybody else because no one will be as invested in their voice taking care of their voice and improving the voice

as much as I am. And then I think also when you spend a lot of time with people, you know, some of these people I see quite often, like when they're on tour, I'll see them every single day of the tour on FaceTime, usually mostly on FaceTime, where we're not just talking about their voice, but what's going on in their life that's affecting their voice. You know, well, I had a hard day because there's such and such happened or you know, they're human beings and things happen

to them. Breakups happen, arguments happen, fights, disappointments, all of that, and that all affects our voice, you know, it really does. You know, even if you have to tell someone, let's say you have to tell someone something very difficult, you might get that lump in your throat and it's hard to even speak. Well, they might have gone through that minutes before. Now we're warming enough to do a show, and so we have to figure out a way to get by it. So I'm always kind of talking and

guiding them through that as well. And you become a listening board as well, which you know what therapist does. The therapist listens a lot, and then you know sometimes is able to offer good advice, helpful advice. So I think that's what really bonds us together. Yeah, our voices are so entangled with our our day to day lives and our emotional states and and everything we're bringing to

the table um. You know, in my own life, I will say I I had always taken my voice for granted, never even really thought about it, And then I think it was just a couple of years ago, I started having a lot of vocal strain and um, I was getting pain in my vocal chords. I was I was struggling to talk. I was hearing some of the at times some of the rasp in my voice. And I saw and hear nose and throat doctor, and I saw a speech therapist and they diagnosed me with being so

excited when I talk, I forget to breathe. So that's a thing. So I with with a therapist for weeks. Um I had to re train myself and learn better vocal habits, learn how to take breaths and pauses. And I learned so much about about my voice from that experience, and how my voice was something that actually had to be nurtured. And it's so interesting. It's like there were times where I couldn't speak at all. There are times where I had to be extremely judicious with what I

said for the first time ever. Usually I'm just stream of consciousness, flow right, And for the first time ever, I had to be like, wait, is this worth saying? And so that was a filter that that my thoughts had to go through. But then secondly, when I was speaking, I was speaking in this like very meditative calm way. My voice was a little bit, you know, slower paced, and I felt like there was this doppel ganger version of Maya out there that was roaming the streets that

everybody was misunderstanding. They were like wow. People would say like, Maya, you have such a calming presence, like you're you seem so grounded and centered, and I was like, no, I'm not. This is just me practicing my voice therapists preaches, and so it also helped me realize how foundational the way that I'm able to express myself to the world is in terms of conveying my personality and my natural exuberance and what have you. So it's been a struggle. I mean,

I still have issues with vocal fatigue. I'm not a singer. I'm not operating at high levels of anything, but my voice is really something that I need to protect and take care of every day. It's this beautiful gift that I've been given. Yeah, well, first of all, we need to do a lesson so I can help you with some of those things, because you shouldn't be experiencing pain

or anything else. So we'll do that. Yeah, I think that the key and all of it is you know, I always say to my students, let's work on your technique and our lessons and then all of our warmups. But when you get out on stage, I don't want you to think about any of that. You work on the technique before that, you know, so that it just gets in your body and then you don't have to think about it when you're actually speaking, because that is going to be a hindrance between you and your audience

if you're thinking about it. You know, Oh, I better stay a little more calm, speak a little lower, take a deeper breath. You know, listeners know that is not my style. Yeah, I'm a listener, so I know that. Thanks so much to Eric Vitro for coming on a slight Change of Plants to talk about his new show. I wanted to leave you all with a preview of backstage Pass. In this clip, singer songwriter Sean Mendez talks about getting out of his own head and letting go

of his anxiety. I think the hardest part of singing is getting out of your own way, is dropping the ego and like just being a kid about it. Like when you're a kid, you just sing. When you're an adult, you're like singing, but at the same time also like critiquing and judging and like afraid. And one of the most amazing leaps we made as a duo was the

day I was like realizing. I was like, not letting you tell me what the real objective thing was because I was so afraid and so anxious, and I was like, no, no, no no, yeah, yeah, I don't want to hear that. I don't want to hear that. I wasn't listening to my teacher. I was like, I just have to get through it out of so much anxiety. And then you're like,

I really think you should trust me. That was not long ago, I know, And I feel like once I really like started to just like trust you and trust the process and trust me, and my voice started to open up more. Not only your voice, but don't you feel better as a human being? I mean, like I said,

it's parallel to like to life in general. I love when we are just like cruising, Like I think for me, it's become a meditation too, because I put my phone down for an hour, I just basically have headphones and I can only hear you in the piano, and I can be so focused on just the notes and my breathing and very present in my body, and you and I are very just zoned in and calm. It's a beautiful experience. I find a lot of the time I

end up leaving the vocal essent calmer. The whole thing was a very zen moment, even in the silence when we're breathing. I love those moments because that feels like the only hour of the day where things move that slow and carefree. Oh wow. Yeah, when people can let go, it makes all the difference in the world. And like you said, be able to open your mind and go all right, So tell me what to do and I'll

do it, and I'll trust it. Because if you can't trust your teacher, then who can you really trust totally? I mean, I think singers are so emotionally attached to their voice that sometimes we'll be backstage at an award show. We'll spend you know, fifteen twenty minutes warming up and then another forty minutes just talking about the heart and calming down and getting into the right frame of mind

to be a to do this. Even in our lessons, you end up accomplishing more when you're in the right frame of mind than doing an hour worth of scales, stressed out and frustrated, and I think being a vocal coach it's much more than going through scales with someone. I always call Eric my vocal coach slash therapist, because you're never like just doing one thing. That's what you are. In my phone. Your bio is voice teacher's last therapist. Well, someone did say in an interview once I was their

vocal life coach, It's true, you really are. I love that phrase, vocal life coach. I thought that was one of the biggest compliments I'd ever gotten, because my lessons aren't always about vocal placement. Sometimes the most important thing is helping a student get mentally ready for a show. Something that helps me a lot is that I say to myself before vocal lesson. I say to myself before a performance at the Grammys that this is just play. It's art, this is music, is love, this is something

that was created to make people feel. It sounds crazy, but sometimes the pressure and a vocal lesson that I put on myself is equivalent to the pressure backstage at the Grammys, and it's because they're the same thing. To me. You've got to sound perfect, working on that on kind of toning that perfectionism down has been a really big part of my life. Yeah. I would actually say, you're more nervous Dan our voice lessons than you are at award shows. Yeah, totally. At an award show you kind

of have no choice. But at a voice lesson, I can be like, I can't do this, I can't do this today, and then I get more nervous. I can psych myself out a little bit more. I'm already I'm even sitting here right now being like I'm talking too much. I'm going to be tired for our vocal lesson in

an hour. So I find even if I'm doing a lesson, the thing that helps me the most is that if I'm three warmups in and I'm starting to feel myself get that perfectionist kind of vibe going on, my tunnel vision is going in, I just kind of shake my body like crazy and I go I'll start like whatever, like to like laugh, to get myself out of that little thing. It's like snapping myself out before I go into that perfectionist place. I say to myself in that moment,

it's just fun. This is just play. Let's just have fun. You know. That was a clip from Backstage Pass with Eric Vitro. You can listen to more episodes of Backstage Pass wherever you get your podcasts. By the way, I broke my car, my own card no rule this morning by having cream in my coffee, which always causes a lot of phlegm and mucus. And I did it to myself. But it was a little bit Eric. It was worth it. Oh my god, it was so good and coffee too this morning. And me is I have cream in my

coffee every day? Well, I do way too often. I have way too often.