Episode description

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Once in a while on the A Rational Fear podcast feed we do an interview with someone who is a leader on climate, and we've got a great get this week.

Richard Duke represents the United States of America around the globe on climate, he is the Deputy Special Envoy for Climate — his boss is former Secretary of State John Kerry who leads the SPEC.

On this episode of the Greatest Moral Podcast Of Our Generation we chat through:

• The IRA
• Australia's place in the pacific
• Aussie Scope 3
• Global Supply Chains
• The Methane Pledge
• Guam
• Small Island States
• Patreon Questions

TRANSCRIPTION

Dan Ilic  0:00  
Good air Dan Ilic with you for the greatest moral podcast of our generation. This is a great episode. I have had the privilege of talking with America. Yes, the whole country actually, Rick Duke, who is the Deputy climate envoy for the US State Department. His job is essentially to travel around the world preaching from the Gospel of climate action, a job that considerably got a lot easier in August when the US passed the inflation Reduction Act. And then that hides exactly what it is, which is a mega climate spending spree Yeah, huge amounts of money tax credits and incentives for things like renewable energy, CCS, EVS community projects. And of course, it is not without controversy. It also opens up federal landfill fossil fuel exploration, it's a bit of a complicated story. But essentially, this whole thing, the IRA, the inflation Reduction Act, not Irish Republican Army, is essentially a huge deal for climate change, and could revolutionize America's approach for years to come when it comes to their emissions. The more I've learned about it, the more excited I am about it, and the more it will hopefully encourage other countries to do the same. Now, it is a far cry from the lip service that Australia's government has so far provided on climate action. But maybe, maybe with the US leading the way that could change a word about how we can make this podcast you know, this was kind of an expensive one, because I couldn't go to the consulate to record my podcast there. They don't actually allow people to take electronic equipment into the US Consulate. It's a whole deal. Let me tell you, and I couldn't exactly invite America into my house. It's very small country, a whole country in there. And let me tell you, the deputy climate envoy had a hell of an entourage, so I had to book professional studios, but it was well worth doing face to face. And I could only do this podcast and last week's podcast as well when we did a stupid old studios in Melbourne, because of your support on Patreon. Now, if you enjoy these conversations, you've enjoyed rational fear. If you enjoy our climate chats, please chip in as a Patreon supporter, it costs real money to make this show and I need your help. So you can chip in for as little as a cup of coffee of months. The benefit is you get unedited previews of stuff you get to see videos I'm working on. And you get a link to the discord so you can join in, in the conversations that people who make this show and also a rational few super fans are all on Discord. And we have great conversations about as Paul there. It's really, really, really good fun. And I look I know there are 7000 of you who listen to the show, which is huge, but only about 300 of you chip in so what we'd love to do this year is get that 300 to 600. And that way we could do more expensive podcasting. We recorded our conversation on Gadigal. land at the urination at a very expensive studio. Let's start the interview.

Robbie McGreggor  2:53  
Despite global warming, a rational fear who's adding a little more heart here with long form discussions with Climate Leaders. Good.

Unknown Speaker  3:06  
This is called Don't be great. Heat waves and drought greatest mass extinction moral we're facing a manmade disaster

Robbie McGreggor  3:16  
podcast, climate criminals, Jenner raishin. All of this with the global warming and a lot of it's a hoax book. Right. That's my role podcast about generation. For short,

Dan Ilic  3:31  
well, our next guest on The Greatest moral podcast of our generation is someone who's been at the forefront of culture, society, democracy, industry and corn syrup based foodstuffs since 1776. It's great privilege to have an irrational fear, one of the longest running superpowers ever. United States of America. Welcome America.

Richard Duke  3:50  
It's good to be here.

Dan Ilic  3:52  
Thank you. That is the voice of Rick Juke, who despite everything going on in the world, has spent 20 years trying to make the world a better place through global democracy and focusing on climate change. He was a special adviser on climate to President Barack Obama, a fellow at the Brookings Institute and like our many of our fellow guests, is deep in the one curry of climate policy, having cut his teeth at the Natural Resources Defense Council, but right now, he's the Deputy Special Envoy for Climate for the United States. Rick, it's really great to have you what a privilege.

Richard Duke  4:24  
It's great to be here. Thanks for making time to talk to me.

Dan Ilic  4:28  
No worries, foot like I just kind of gave a very cliff notes of your career based on your LinkedIn profile. But I don't know much about you. Can you tell me what you've done over the last 20 years? Like how did you find yourself deep in this in the climate fight?

Richard Duke  4:44  
When I was in college, I was in Environmental Studies and Economics and thinking about where I wanted to work and I kind of kept gravitating between economics and environment and the thing that is really at the Part of that nexus is climate change. And even then, with Al Gore telling the world about what to worry about, and my professors also helping me to orient on it all, it was clear that we needed to take this question more seriously than any of the others on environment. And so it was the biggest thorniest challenge and I just kept coming back to it over the course of my career,

Dan Ilic  5:25  
we ever distracted Did you say, you know, I might just try carpentry a little bit, lock up some shelves,

Richard Duke  5:30  
I was distracted by working on some of the economics only side for a while I worked for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York for a stint right out of college. I still worked in Mexico, right right out of college for a bit. But even there, I ended up coming back to related themes. I went to Mexico without a particular plan, but ended up working for the Mexican government for the summer on climate, believe it or not, so it just keeps being a theme for me. And even when I went into consulting, I found a way to focus on climate before it was really central to what management consultants were doing. And it's just been a passion kind of along the way.

Dan Ilic  6:10  
So what was there an aha moment? Was it like a catalyst moment for you? You went, Oh, fuck this, I gotta go. I gotta do climate stuff.

Richard Duke  6:16  
I don't know if it's a single thing is much is kind of the whole process of being a kid in college trying to decide what mattered and what really motivated me. And it was the sense that it was not really possible to do right by the environment unless we got the climate piece done right first. And then also, when we looked at the other environmental questions, a lot of those, at least in the US, were being managed. And so it seemed like the thing that was kind of work on done

Dan Ilic  6:45  
well, and that is that is extraordinary amount of time has passed since college. And over the last three weeks, you must be kind of doing somersaults. What an extraordinary moment to kind of have the IRA passed. Was that a big moment for you?

Richard Duke  7:00  
It was a huge moment for basically me, my family, my friends, everyone I know is pretty much over the moon,

Dan Ilic  7:09  
your family turned you and Dad, are you happy now Dad.

Richard Duke  7:15  
The two and the five year old I think are a little bit disconnected from this conversation even though they live in DC. But but it really it has been a huge deal for everyone that I work with all my friends in, in the business on climate change. And it is hard to overstate how important it is. I mean, we've all in the US been at it for 20 years really trying to get our Congress to coalesce despite all of our divisions, like since the 90s, like Bill Clinton era, kind of Exactly, exactly. Back to that date is I think, the right place to start. At that time. You know, President Clinton tried to do a energy tax as a way to get started on the problem and just got savaged for it. And then we tried to find a way forward in all kinds of different ways from cap and trade was a big one. Right? And then I was part of crafting some of the details of President Obama's efforts to do a clean electricity standard. Yeah, none of that got traction. And everything got close along the way are things got close along the way. And smaller things got done, we got versions of incentives for wind and solar done and so on. But this is the first time where we have a full package. It's comprehensive, it's durable, it's really going to make the difference. And so it's a big

Dan Ilic  8:34  
deal. Yeah, I left the name inflation Reduction Act is very climate, you know, when I think of climate, I think of reducing and inflammation. And all of those things. Yeah. Like, it's such a strange name, right? Because it feels like, oh, well, that's a clearly a name that is hiding the true benefits that this that this bill is going to bring, like, Why didn't you call it stop the heat death of the planet bill, or how it's bloody time act or something like

Richard Duke  9:00  
that, I can tell you with confidence that my colleagues in the administration would have called it essentially anything that Senator Manchin wanted to call. And I think that it was, but But honestly, the inflation Reduction Act is a good name for it in the following substantive sense. This bill will demonstrably lower the cost of living for consumers, because it is going to make it possible to get that electric vehicle that is so much cheaper to operate over the life of the vehicle that insulates you from the ups and downs of gasoline prices is going to make it possible to get a heat pump that means you are also insulated from natural gas price volatility. And that is a very kind of consumer sense of reducing costs. In addition to that, it happens to be deficit reducing and that's the kind of macroeconomics of it, that it will actually reduce inflation because it's going to take some deficit out of the system right away because it's paid for and more by rolling back some of the tax cuts for the wealthy that the prior administration put in place. And by putting in place some quite rational approaches to really encouraging companies to invest by taxing what are called stock buybacks, which something companies do when they don't want to invest. They just buy back from in stock. And this is now going to be discouraged in a way that raises money. And all that together means it cuts the deficit, and it's going to cut consumer energy costs and make consumers more secure.

Dan Ilic  10:29  
You know, when we talk a lot about climate policy, we're always talking about carrots and sticks. It just feels like the US government's just dumped a truckload of carrots on the country, and will continue to for some time, and that will make lots of people happy with as opposed to something like a carbon tax, which is very unpopular. And we've tried to have carbon taxes here. I don't know if you're aware of that. But it didn't go down. So well.

Richard Duke  10:50  
So one thing that's interesting in this bill, is that it does include a fee on methane emissions in the oil and gas sector. Yeah, right. And so there's an element in there that is, I guess, old school, and that says, Let's go stay. Yes. And it includes a whole range of investments and incentives, the way you're describing. And that is the bulk of the bill is the carrot side. And so, but it's also worth noting that in the administration has been clear about this already, that with all this in place, then it helps to allow states and cities and our own federal government to then set standards that encourage companies to step up and do the right thing, investing in everything from electric vehicles, to heat pumps, to renewables, etc. And so it is a basis for doing much more than just the carrots.

Dan Ilic  11:46  
Yeah, there's some things that the climate community not so happy with the concessions for new oil and gas and the tying of leases for oil and gas to the kind of leases that are going up for renewable energy. Are those as bad as people are making them out to be? Do you think

Richard Duke  12:03  
so? There is nothing like the legislation to force compromise. In order to get anything big done in our Congress, and really any political system, there will be compromises required. And of course, the administration wanted to do much more with this bill than in the end, we were able to on much broader topics and climate. But the good news is that on climate, we got the essence done with this bill, we got all of most important things done. And there were some compromises on the level that you're describing now, how to think about this is that there's already been a lot of analysis done that shows that it is clearly decisively the case that the benefits here from transforming our giant American economy, to clean electricity and electrified everything vastly outweigh any potential climate costs that come from marginal output from additional oil and gas related to the leasing provisions is not even close. It's there's no contest and all the credible analyses that have already been done had been very clear about that.

Dan Ilic  13:06  
So do you think this is a real time to celebrate? Yeah,

Richard Duke  13:09  
absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, we're not done celebrating.

Dan Ilic  13:14  
Is this like a global lap of victory around the world, stopping at every country go, we did it, guys, we did it.

Richard Duke  13:19  
In all seriousness, having this in place means that we can

Dan Ilic  13:25  
look at countries in the eye and

Richard Duke  13:29  
we can go into full diplomatic push to try to get everyone to join us in setting targets that are good enough to keep safe of climate within reach, and then delivering on those targets. And so we're busy doing that, in capitals everywhere, usually by zoom. Yeah.

Dan Ilic  13:48  
Well, it's so cool. It's a privilege to deal with face to face. Yeah, I think that's really remarkable, because it really would make your job extremely difficult to come to Australia and go, Hey, guys, so you need to do more and not being able to being able to say that America is now going to be doing something significant is is great. Can I

Richard Duke  14:05  
just know that this is something that is going to last? I think that sometimes people question our constancy as the United States. And I just want to jump in and talk about that, because the core of this inflation Reduction Act is a set of comprehensive 10 year tax credits for clean power for electric vehicles for clean industry, for clean buildings, and beyond. And all of those tools have strong bipartisan support. Because we have seen, let's say back in 2015, the Obama Biden administration negotiated a set of tax credits for wind and solar that were five years long and smaller, but those persisted straight through the Trump administration and delivered record years of wind and solar deployment straight through that era politically. And that, to me is proof concept that these are popular that they are bipartisan supported measures. And even though the whole bill was done on a partisan basis, ultimately, because that was the only option left the underlying elements, the substance of the bill. And climate is not something that's going to be rolled back by anyone at any time this is going to happen. And it's going to win friends over time as it happens, because it's going to create jobs, and it's going to create momentum. Right? If

Dan Ilic  15:24  
you're in a red state, and you get an electric car cheaper, or heat pump cheaper, you automatically, you know, benefiting from this bill, and your your prices of electricity go down

Richard Duke  15:32  
in picking up on that, yes, on the consumer side, but also, a lot of the development on renewables, and some of the other elements of the spill on manufacturing side and so on, are really going to benefit the whole country, and especially some of the parts of the country that are most skeptical right now. But I think once this really gets rolling, you're gonna see more and more supporters of this bill, it's already quite popular in the public.

Dan Ilic  15:55  
So for like, vulnerable communities whose water and air and it's clean now, these initiatives will clean up those

Richard Duke  16:03  
areas. Yes. And for economically vulnerable communities that need jobs, employment and better prospects, there's going to be wind farms and solar farms and all kinds of infrastructure that needs to get built.

Dan Ilic  16:15  
All right, I want to talk about Australia and our place in the Pacific. After years of being a bad actor, Australia is back kind of you know, you know, sort of, you know, sort of like, Hey, we're coming back kind of way. At least we have a 2030 target now, which we didn't have, you know, three weeks ago. What are the strengths that Australia can bring to the global conversation on climate action now, as opposed to six months ago? What do you think? What kind of pressure can we apply in our region to kind of seek more climate action.

Richard Duke  16:44  
So climate change will be determined by the major economies, the 20, major economies that make up about 80% of the world's emissions, and Australia is part of that club. And Australia is now in the game, helping to make the case to everyone, including China, which emits 30% of the world's greenhouse gases, and candidly needs to move faster if we're going to have a safe climate future, to join us in setting targets for 2030. That deliver the kind of reductions we need to hit Net Zero globally by 2050. And to solve this problem, or at least mitigate it sufficiently. And so now Australia is there because Australia has a target that I believe that it will deliver against that is straight on the line to net zero by 2050, for Australia, and so the key thing is not is it 43% or 44%, or whatever. The key thing is that it is a pace of emission reductions from today's levels, that's right on track to get to net zero by 2050. And that's what we need all major economies to join together and do. And by the way, as, as we do that, as the United States as Australia, working together, in many cases on things like electric vehicle supply chains, and so on. As we do that costs come down. And that's part of why this is happening now in the United States. And why it's happening now in Australia is that renewables are cheaper to get electricity than any other source, electric vehicles are cheaper for consumers than any other way to drive. And so that's because countries have momentum now, or more and more countries have momentum on this issue. And it's great to have Australia fully in the fold on that now.

Dan Ilic  18:22  
And one of the things we don't talk a lot about in Australia, and climate is our scope, three emissions, you know, we are a carbon intensive economy. We are we are well, one of the top three or four, depending on the globe, global conflicts of the day fossil fuel exporters, but we don't ever have a conversation about our contribution to the molecules in the atmosphere that leave our shores. How do we have that conversation with our own government? How do we convince our own government that we need to stop the export at our own economic detriment for a little bit of these fossil fuels?

Richard Duke  18:55  
If we think about how we're going to get at this problem globally, the bottom line is that it's on the demand side where the real action is what is going to cut into global oil consumption. It's electric vehicles and electrification of all transportation, in some cases, hydrogen perhaps. And as we do that, globally, including hopefully at pace and Australia now, on the demand side, then that means that there'll be less and less need to invest in and develop oil for for the world to use. And that's the way that we'll we'll see that oil will peak and decline, and we'll be able to get this done. Same thing applies for coal as we move to substitute renewables for coal fired electricity on a global basis, then global demand for coal goes down and that's how you get at this problem. So

Dan Ilic  19:48  
this is about getting doesn't get back at our customers to change as they're getting our current customers to, to change the way they are making energy,

Richard Duke  19:54  
including here in Australia where you got to see the progress pickup in order to deliver Over on Australia's new 43%, target on decarbonizing electricity, and electrifying everything. And then Australia is kind of fully part of that effort on the demand side. And then the rest follows on the supply side. And let me just say one more thing, though, which is it's going to take some time for this to play out. It's not something that happens overnight, as much as we want it to. It is going to be well over a decade of energy transition globally and more like two to three decades, if we're honest about it. And during that time, it's important that all suppliers of fossil fuels during that transition period, you know, as they taper down, we also need to make sure those fossil fuel supplies are as clean as possible. So we've got to get out the methane emissions that come from coal, oil and gas along the way.

Dan Ilic  20:45  
I'm glad you brought up methane because we do have a question without notice from greens leader Adam Bandt.

Adam Bandt  20:50  
The Pacific leaders see it when we say we're committed to climate action, and then go home and announced 10 new oil and gas fields like the Australian Labour government did this week. Will you push Australia to commit to no new coal and gas as part of us reengagement in the Pacific and for our government to adopt the global methane pledge that President Biden was championing what say you

Dan Ilic  21:13  
America, we absolutely are

Richard Duke  21:16  
encouraging all countries in the world, including Australia to join the now more than 120 countries that have committed to work together on cutting methane pollution at least 30% by 2030, and the global methane pledge. So yes, on that second part, on the first part, we are back to what I was just describing the answer to how to achieve energy transition globally, is above all else that we need to complete that journey of clean power and electric electrification of transportation buildings and industry as the core of the climate solution globally. And when we do that we address what's needed globally on on the energy sector,

Dan Ilic  21:57  
we have this crazy thing in Australia with LNG exports. I don't know if you know about a local market here. It's absolutely bonkers, right? 80% of LNG gets exported out. And we were short of LNG for our domestic supply because of a deal that in 2002, with 2002, prices locked in for 30 years, we're getting to the point now we're actually building LNG import terminals for the potentially process of getting LNG re imported from Asia back into Australia, because it'll be cheaper than supplier.

Richard Duke  22:27  
We've seen these kinds of we got plenty of gas. We've seen these kinds of shocks all over the world in this market, including in the United States, where we had back and forth on LNG that was at a similar scale, where for while we were building LNG, import terminals, and then now we're big LNG exporters now that we're doing so much natural gas production, but I think the core answer to that question around energy insecurity is the same answer to the question around climate insecurity, which is that we got to double triple down on the transition, right, because once we get to this green power, electrified and use future then we've got both we've got climate security and energy security and one go

Dan Ilic  23:12  
on the Maytime thing. I think it's so interesting looking at the 120 countries, Bahrain is on that list. Canada, Kuwait, Nigeria, Tunisia, Qatar has signed it these are carbon economies. What is what is like what is like taking Australia's time to sign this we also know you have you gone have you gotten knocking on on Chris Bowens door and today for is popping in? Can you just sign this for me?

Richard Duke  23:35  
Let me also note that we have over three quarters of the world's top livestock and dairy producers have joined as well, which is one of the more challenging What's

Dan Ilic  23:42  
your message to Australia come on our deal with enthusiasm, message, diplomacy away, Rick, come and say something that will get me a headline

Richard Duke  23:53  
the waters warm come in? No, I look it's it's it's a it's a crucial conversation for us to all join in. Because you got to take seriously that half a degree centigrade of today's climate change is caused by methane. And there's just no faster way to manage our near term climate future than to cut methane pollution. And we're not on track globally to be clear, methane emissions are increasing 10% Over the next decade on the current trajectory. So we don't just need people to join global methane pledge what we need, above all, and I believe Australia is headed in this direction is to join us in the pledge but do the work. And and that's, I think, really where we are focused and we're making headway on that. I want to just note, President Lopez Obrador of Mexico joined President Biden recently, and committed to move on addressing oil and gas, methane in Pemex, the national oil company of Mexico's operations in a major way for the first time, and we're going to do that work together there. And we're working in Nigeria working in many geographies all at once and not just in the boss. All sector, but that's the hard work we need to do. And we want Australia to step up and be a full partner in that. Come on,

Dan Ilic  25:05  
come on. Spoken like a diplomat. Well, that's why you're the deputy climate envoy. And I'm not there was a lovely way to word that Hurry up Australia. That's how I would have said it. Let's talk about some threats quickly, when you see these global agreements of last decade, not just in climate, but Brexit falling apart, the war in Eastern Europe, what kind of threats Do you see on the horizon for a global climate, like what's kind of an unforeseen threat that we're not really thinking about for these global agreements that could, could destabilize them?

Richard Duke  25:36  
What we can say is that it's instructive to look at what happened when Russia illegally invaded Ukraine. And I think that the reverberations that are still happening, there's obviously the humanitarian crisis that it has caused in Ukraine above all else, but then there's reverberations globally that include all these shocks to energy prices, but also shocks to fertilizer, and therefore food prices. And what we are seeing on I guess, a silver lining side from that, is that the response in Europe, the response globally, is that governments see that they need to just move faster to get to the clean energy future, and they need to move faster to get to cleaner fertilizers that are things like, you know, green, green hydrogen to green ammonia, as a way to cut loose from all that volatility and from Petro state control of their economies. And so I guess that is a recent or even current example of how geopolitical shocks can intersect with climate change. But in this case, it's really causing everyone to double down on on the transition to clean energy. Now, going forward, I think the biggest threat to climate action is probably some of the global trends around what's happening in media environments and what's causing it and what what's happening to democracies. And if we're, if we're candid about it, and I probably won't be very specific in naming names. That is where we get to, yes, you

Dan Ilic  27:14  
definitely don't want to say Rupert Murdoch, is a problem for democracy. While you're in Australia, Rick, you can say that in America, but don't say it at the ABC Studios. I can say that, because I don't have any money for Rupert Murdoch. to defame. Don't you dare say Lachlan Murdoch has anything to do with dismantling democracy. Ricky's nervously drinking.

Richard Duke  27:40  
But that is what worries me is the is the whole question of kind of the undercurrent of autocracy. I think that is the toughest part.

Dan Ilic  27:49  
What are kind of the exciting areas you see for Australia in the region? Like what are the opportunities you see for you know, us as citizens of Australia, but also Australia as an actor on the on the Pacific stage?

Richard Duke  28:01  
I think there are a couple that I want to highlight one is precisely in the region, Australia is a crucial partner for us in working with countries like Indonesia and India, on accelerating their energy transition. And we're already doing that work ourselves and with other allies. And we are eager to work with Australia on making that happen at pace in those countries. And we think that's a huge shared opportunity. More on the commercial side, we are moving now to scale up a kind of North American Electric Vehicle manufacturing powerhouse. And we've been very clear, Congress has been very clear, we're gonna need a secure supply chain in that. And so we think that Australia is one of my, you know, many natural partners in making sure we've got the right kind of critical minerals supply in order to make all that happen. So that's another example. There are many others. I mean,

Dan Ilic  29:05  
that's so interesting, because Australia is rich in minerals, we do have a lot of particularly rare earth minerals that are part of the new economy. But we don't do any processing here. You know, there's, there's none of that there's there's all that happens in Asia, is that an opportunity for Australians to kind of take that part of the supply chain and, you know, be a kind of a powerhouse in processing those kinds of minerals here.

Richard Duke  29:30  
It is an opportunity because the scale of the prize is immense. I mean, it's not just batteries, not just electric vehicles. It's also renewables components, all these things need critical minerals, and then you've processed critical minerals. And then obviously, there's opportunities downstream and manufacturing things as well. And of course, deploying all those solutions in the Australian economy. So there's lots of work to do. And Australia has a set of key roles that it can play in At work,

Dan Ilic  30:01  
okay, I've got a question without notice from Maria Hernandez. She's a friend of mine that is from Guam.

Maria Hernandez  30:06  
Well, less than half a day, I will see Maria Hernandez me. My name is Maria Hernandez name. I'm an indigenous tomorrow mother. I'm also an environmental and cultural rights activist based in Guam, as well as its 2022 Bertha foundation fellow. My questions the US climate envoy. I'll start off by saying that one is positioning itself as a leader really in the worldwide sustainability movement. As you're aware of we're considered a highly strategic location in the Asia Pacific region. Our local government has been working toward fostering sustainable economic growth and really paying attention to climate change. Because so many islands are being impacted by climate change in the Pacific. We're trying so hard to make our island more self sustaining. But the reality is that we're in an unincorporated territory of the US. We don't have a seat at the table when it comes to US military projects that are changing the entire landscape of the Pacific. And right now 1/3 of our island is occupied by the US military, there is a massive firing range complex being built above are northern lands aquifer that provides 90% of the community with water. And access to clean drinking water is a human right. We don't want our aquifer, and our land and our and our coastal waters to be contaminated. Like we're seeing across so many communities where there's a large military presence. The example that I can think of right away is the crisis at Red Hill, in Hawaii, what they're experiencing out there, it's really a nightmare. So I asked, what steps can be taken to further reduce the military's footprint here, protect our aquifer, protect our people, ultimately, and to promote sustainability that better position our island and our region to fight climate change. CSIS. Mossy thank you,

Dan Ilic  31:59  
for Maria,

Richard Duke  32:00  
thank you for the question. You're asking questions that I don't frankly have great answers to I am outside of my domain of expertise on a lot of this. Clearly, there's work to be done in trying to answer what you posed better than I can. Look, one thing I can say is that when it comes to the Pacific more broadly, because I really can't speak to the specifics that you've raised with any with any details, it's too far beyond my expertise and mandate. What I can tell you is that we are acutely aware of the impact of climate change itself in the Pacific, and specifically for vulnerable states, like small island states, including because of sea level rise itself. And that is why we are so committed to doing this work to keep 1.5 degrees centigrade within reach. And that is why we think about it not just in terms of this whole energy transition that we've been talking about already, but also the fast mitigation complement to the energy transition, which starts with this methane work to make sure that we're cutting pollution that will control the climate in the next 30 years, and other short lived climate pollutants like HFCs. And we've got to then also invest in adaptation. So we're gearing up our prepare Initiative, which aims to get things like early warning systems around to the world so that farmers know if they're gonna get hit by a year of drought they know in advance and can at least try to do their best to manage through that. So we're doing what we can on on that front. And your excellent questions about Guam specifically, I'm just not in a good position to answer specifically.

Dan Ilic  33:49  
They are a, an island that is a colony of America. mass migration is something that is kind of at the top of my mind when I think about our islands in Australia, like Torres Strait Islanders who are losing their culture and homes, and probably will disappear in the next 15 years. Is there something in place in terms of US policy to look after folks who are from islands that are colonies of America, like Puerto Rico or Guam or other island areas to bring them to a different landmass?

Richard Duke  34:20  
Well, it is a case by case question, I will say at the highest level that I think both the United States and Australia benefit from a relatively open posture on immigration in half. So over decades, and in my strong view, both countries should double down on that going forward, because because it's in their interest to do so. In the case of Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico is part of the United States and citizens can travel back and forth at will. There's a opportunity for Puerto Rico to potentially become a state and that's a complicated question in its own right I, but I think that the, you know, the answer depends on which exact place we're talking about.

Dan Ilic  35:05  
Sure. Okay, here are some quick questions from Patreon. Many of you have already answered. So feel free to give, you know, three second answers here. First one from comedian Ben pubg. Who does your hair?

Richard Duke  35:16  
I think no one no one does your hair, including not me very good.

Dan Ilic  35:20  
This is from Sasha, we're the polarization of politics. How can a genuine bipartisan approach to positive change occur? I think this is it goes back to when we're talking about a little bit before.

Richard Duke  35:31  
What we've seen in the US is that as technology costs have come down to the point that the clean stuff is cheaper and better for consumers and everyone. And as our younger citizens have stepped up and demanded that we do more on all this, that is basically shifting the politics tectonically. So that now sure there's a there's a hardcore of kind of climate skeptics climate denial denialists. But mainly what you have is that's fading. And with this set of investment that's coming, it's going to be bipartisan, increasingly going forward.

Dan Ilic  36:06  
Spirit asks, Do America's targets include land use? Yes. LWCF?

Richard Duke  36:12  
Absolutely. We have a considerable land use sink that helps us with our climate math. And we need to and are investing in making sure we maintain the health of that. And by the way, that's going to get harder as we deal with climate impacts and wildfire. And that's a shared challenge. Obviously, in both countries,

Dan Ilic  36:29  
I read that the trees are growing in the tundra now. So you know, just keep growing that forest out there.

Richard Duke  36:34  
I guess, silver linings.

Dan Ilic  36:36  
Matthew asks how to radically reduce America's carbon footprint without sanctioning the politics of austerity. I think the IRA goes some way to answering Matthew's question there.

Richard Duke  36:47  
Definitely. I think we are on safe ground on that question right now. And it's not just the IRA. We also have a couple 100 billion dollars in investment from our infrastructure investment and jobs act that's in place and starting to flow into the economy for innovation on clean energy and climate solutions. And then there's even in our semiconductor bill called the chips act. There's opportunities on climate there. So we are investing. We are not practicing austerity on climate right now.

Dan Ilic  37:14  
And this is a fun question for me. There are rumors that your boss might be retiring. Can we have the exclusive to announce that you'll be taking over from John Kerry? No comment. Well, Richard, it's absolute privilege to sit face to face with you and talk through these issues. I've never met a super bow before, but it was really fun. And I hope I hope I get to see you again in the future and pose more questions to you.

Richard Duke  37:38  
Thanks for hosting me and please come to Washington. We can have a pint. That'd be great.

Robbie McGreggor  37:44  
GM Pooh Bear greatest moral podcast of our generation.

Dan Ilic  37:48  
Well, they haven't. We had 30 minutes with America. And we covered a lot of territory in that 30 minutes. And it was really good fun. I hope to do it again sometime soon. Big thank you to the US State Department for hooking that up. Also, big thanks to Maria Hernandez from Guam. And our friend Adam band over at the greens for their questions are really curly questions there for America. Also, big thank you to Jacob brown on the Tepanyaki timeline for jamming this podcast together. If you love what we do at irrational fear, please head on over to patreon.com forward slash a rational fear and shipping. It's three bucks a month, five bucks a month. Keep the show on the road. Right now. It is extremely helpful to pay the bills to put this show together. Also, if you love us on stage, please head on over to the Festival of Dangerous Ideas. We're back on stage September 17 talking all things secrecy in Australia. And that's a huge lineup, David McBride, Amber Schultz, Kate McLemore Damien cave from the New York Times as well as Louis Hobart and myself, unless September 17, at the festival dangerous ideas, it's gonna be really funny show just started putting it together this weekend is going to be stupid and good. And also you'll learn a lot and I've also laugh a lot and also be so shocked as to how fucked up Australia is. That's the remit of this show, isn't it? It's amazing, irrational fear. We that's what we do here. Anyway, thanks for listening. We'll see you speak to you next week.

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