You're listening to a podcast of spurious morality. Hello and welcome to a podcast of Spurious Morality. I'm Johnston and with me this week I have Connor. Hello. And we are joined by a brand new Spodcaster. Welcome to your first episode, Will. Hello there. Great, great to have you join us. We've kind of been planning you entering the Spodcastverse for probably the best part of a year now, but it's taken us this long to kind of get to this episode. And it's going to be a good episode,
I think. So we're going to have a look at the 11th Doctor Chronicles, but the ones with Valerie. So it's kind of four sets that make up a very coherent series. I think some people refer to it as sort of Series 7B or 7AB or 7A .5 or whatever. I think the official one is 7V. 7V, we'll go with that. Because when I think about it, 7B is like the actual second half of Series 7 with Clara in it, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So strong start. But yeah, we're looking at 7B. We'll go
with that. I like 7B. So we're looking at these four sets plus an extra episode that was released in the middle. And we're going to go through them an episode at a time. There's a lot of love for this run. I think it's sort of very notable
for quite a few things. It is very much in the style of an 11th Doctor series, that sort of latter 11th Doctor when Moffat got a bit experimental with the format, we're going to say that, I'm not busy with Sherlock, and sort of started to split the series and see what could be done and how the Christmas special could work in the middle and all that kind of thing. It's also notable for having some younger, big Finnish writers, you know, developing younger talent, that kind
of thing. So I think there's quite a lot to discuss here. What I was going to say on that point was that the Doctor Chronicles was a range that I wasn't really looking at, just because I've already got so much of a backlog. Don't tell anyone, but I haven't even listened to Doom Coalition yet, so, you know. And when they sort of said, you know, Jacob Dudman's leaving and we're going to do a full 11th Doctor series with a new companion,
that did interest me. And then you start hearing reviews from that first set and it really becomes, you think like, OK, I'm going to give this a go. And in the end, I really liked it. Yeah, I'm one of those people that sort of championed this series. Yeah, I have to admit, the Chronicles have never particularly been my favourite, but...
I got this on release. I had this pre -ordered, so I must have sort of looked at it beforehand and gone, no, there's something about this, you know, new companion and four box sets that make up a series. It definitely caught my attention. I think the strongest thing this series has going for it is it sets out to be a series rather than a collection of box sets, and I think that's a trap that Big Finish can fall into sometimes.
The closest analogue to it is probably the likes of Doom Coalition and Stranded and those other ones. Sort of multi -box set story arcs. So it felt really good to get something that was deliberately set out to tell or to match as closely as possible the format of Doctor Who on TV, which Big Finish doesn't always do. I think it's fair to say that sometimes would stick more to like... If someone's buying this box set, that has to be a self -contained
set. That seems to be the way they've gone more recently, and this stood out for that reason. So that's the strongest thing it has going for it. The second strongest thing being two fantastic lead performances. I'm not the biggest fan of the 11th Doctor in the whole world. I wouldn't rank him among my favourite Doctors, but to my ears, Jacob Dudman, is nearly completely indistinguishable from Matt Smith. He's a really good... It's a really good impression and it's a really good
performance as well. You can tell that he's studied the role and I think he's broadly making the choices that Matt Smith would make in these stories. And then you've got Safiya Inghar as well as Valerie and they're absolutely fantastic. I think it's fair to say that in a lot of places they carry this series. just with the performance they've put in throughout it. Yeah, absolutely.
This is a series that absolutely rests on its leads and considering neither of its leads have been in Telly Doctor Who, Big Finish is one of their biggest selling points is, well, we've got Peter Davison, we've got Tom Baker, we've got David Tennant. They've not got the kind of star power to push this one forward. automatically we are kind of relying on storytelling and format and that kind of thing. And I'm going to say
up front, I think it's an absolute success. I've really, really enjoyed re -listening to this and that kind of thing. I'm going to be a bit mean and I'm going to see if we can pick a favourite story from the run each, which I think is a bit of a challenge because there's some very, very good stories in there. Do you want to have a go first, Connor? It's actually not a difficult pick. Conversion Therapy. It's not even called Conversion Therapy. It's Sins of the Flesh, but
in my head it's called Conversion Therapy. Sins of the Flesh from, I think it's the third box set, with the Cybermen. I think it's my standout one. I don't think there's anything that fills me with more anger in real life than Conversion Therapy. Doctor Who doing a very, it's not a very subtle takedown of it. It's quite, it's a bit on the nose with, you know, conversion Cybermen. That sort of, you know, follows. But I think it's fantastic. I'm a sucker for the
Cybermen anyway. So I would very happily pick out Sins of the Flesh from box set three. Yeah, it's a very, very good episode and a very good use of the Cybermen, absolutely. What about you, Will? So that's an excellent choice from Connor. I think I'd go for Broken Hearts, the extra one in the middle. I just found it to be just such
a brilliant character piece. Actually, I guess two sets of two -handers that really delved into... you know, the relationship between the Doctor and Valerie, while also telling this side story about Lionel and Augustus. And I think really does dive down into who the 11th Doctor is in quite a believable way. I think Lisa McMullan pulled that off very well. And yeah, overall, there are loads of great episodes in this, but that really stood out to me as the absolute best.
I think as well... Jacob Dubman and Safir Ingar are both excellent sort of as Connor has already said they're great throughout and Safir Ingar especially is an incredible find by Big Finish I know they've done other stuff as well I'm not saying that this is their first thing but they really do an incredible job but in this episode especially they really bring it and yeah I just think overall just a fantastic episode yeah it's Considering there's only the two of them in it,
but there's obviously more in the way of characters, it's great, just full of wonderful performances. You see, I do struggle to pick a favourite from this because I really, really like the first set. I really like that sort of just starting out, new Doctor Companion. sort of partnership stuff. So, like, I think The Inheritance is an absolutely fantastic companion introduction story. You know, the end is really good. I really like the stuff with the time spiders. It's just a
good sort of future spacey adventure. Since the Flesh is excellent. All's Fair is very good. And I'm a huge fan of the finale as well. And I do really like Dalek's Victorious, which is kind of the utopia of this set. It's not quite the finale. It's linked to it. Is it a three -parter? Is it a two -parter type thing? But I love how the whole thing just kind of builds up and builds up and builds up until basically the Doctor has his, oh my God, I'm going to have
to be the War Doctor again moment. And it's a great cliffhanger, but you can just feel like everything going wrong for the Doctor throughout the episode. And it's a wonderful piece of, you know, a story is still told, but the tension just builds up and it kind of rips out the rug from underneath you. And the Doctor kind of confronts what he became in the Time War in a much better way than a lot of stuff that is set in the Time War, I have to admit. I realise I've just named
like half of the entire series. But I'm going with Dalek's Victorious. Yeah, I really like Dalek's Victorious. Yeah, I like the sort of two -part finale that comes after it, but just that little... Utopia -style build -up episode in Daleks Victorious I think works incredibly well. And I'd say Utopia was my favourite part of those three episodes in Series 3. So it kind of does a similar job and does it very, very
well. Let's get going then. Let's dive in. So as we have said, the first episode is The Inheritance. This introduces Valerie as the companion and... takes the sort of not particularly traditional step of killing Valerie's mum. It's a pretty brutal start for the character and obviously something that gets picked up in later episodes, sort of as an emotional tug. But I really like sort of the setup of this. You know, we've got the bad capitalists, we've got the idea of, is
it the Dorinthian blight? Am I saying that correctly? Which floats up. again, later in the series, and, you know, is also a significant part of the storyline. We're introduced to this version of the future that Valerie is from. It's sort of not quite the sort of thing that we've ever seen in Doctor Who before in terms of the settings. So it's good. There's definitely a lot of, you know, capitalism bad stuff going on, but a lot of very good Doctor Who does kind of hinge on
capitalism bad. So Connor, talk to us about The Inheritance. Yes, it's a really strong start. I like that it sort of throws you straight in. And I actually like as well, Valerie's already being quite proactive. It's not the case that her, she's already trying to research the blight when the Doctor meets her. And it's not a case that Companion meets Doctor and is drawn into her world. It's the Doctor and Valerie's worlds.
meet i think that's quite cool um you you have the sort of obligatory new who companion uh their mother is there um and she's a great character as well i really like her relationship with valerie um and it is quite gutting whenever they do ultimately um kill her off um so that's really really effective that it builds up that relationship really easily It doesn't take too long for them to get to the stage where this is a really believable mother
-daughter duo. And then there's proper weight at the end whenever Valerie's mourning her death. So I think that's a real credit to them to be able to do that. You have the evil capitalists, as you say. I like the twist that you get. Valerie obviously thinks this is the whole planet. The doctor thinks it's affecting the whole planet. And then they discover that it's just been confined to one rig. So that's a nice twist. That's really effective. I don't know how much I buy the whole
it's a virus that affects your money. You die by having a lot of money. That's an idea. It's the sort of idea Doctor Who does quite a lot. I do prefer slightly more grounded stuff. That's a little bit fantastical. So that's not entirely to my tastes, but not everything has to be. As I said, it's broadly a very good story. The focus is very much on Valerie and her mum, as it should
be, and that's the most important thing. Yeah, I think it finds the balance quite nicely between sort of introducing Valerie and, you know, that relationship with her mum and taking it away and telling a pretty solid story as well. It does put me in mind of sort of good opening episodes,
Bells of St John, Rose, that kind of thing. um smith and jones basically good companion introductions um and i feel as though i should mention partners in crime because i feel as though i've ignored it by not mentioning it um will what about you yeah i found the inheritance to be the inheritance to be a very confident opener i think it started out on the right foot for the series uh immediately um one thing that is apparent in this, that I guess I'd say here as opposed to beating all
time, is that it becomes very clear that a lot of the writers at Big Finish have been sort of saving up their very Moffat -y dialogue. I think there's some really good stuff in this, like the Doctor referring to the bomb as Mr. Bomb and things like that, and that whole cold open of I'm the Doctor and this is a bomb, very of its era, which you find throughout this series. I think it launches Valerie very well as someone
who's very active and very caring. And it presents just a great mystery, I suppose, with what's going on with this virus. And gradually, you know, we see this unfold. And I think it presents a very sort of interesting narrative throughout. And, yeah, you've got Arabella Hendricks, who I think is a good villain. I think that she, you know, the part where, you know, everyone, people start to die and she's when the doctor
reveals. what that is that it is the dorinthian blight and she organizes a buy to live sale is uh suitably mustache twirlingly evil for this story i think and overall i just i felt the story just lived along very nicely and i liked meeting all these new characters uh and it really just set up the rest of the series really well yeah Yeah, absolutely. Nice, nice, strong opener. And I think that, I mean, with this, this is something that we're going to see throughout
the whole series, really. It is, as we've all said, sort of very, very infitting with the era. But at the same time, it is doing different stuff. Like this is not a remake of The Bells of St. John. This is very much its own thing. It's just sort of using... I guess, tropes from the other stuff we've discussed. So yeah, it's nice to see that this is, it's not sticking to its era. It's not doing to sort of, coin a phrase, tea
time 2013 all over again kind of thing. It's definitely been its own thing, and I like that. Let's move on then to episode number two, The House of Masks, which is sort of Valerie's... first trip in the TARDIS. I think it's just a nice first trip in the TARDIS kind of story. The baggage from the previous episode is placed slightly to the side, but certainly not got rid of and ignored. And we go on to have a pretty decent adventure. So, Connor, talk to us about
the House of Masks. Yes, it's good. It's always nice when Doctor Who goes to Venice. And you can include the stones of Venice and vampires of Venice in that. Vampires of Venice gets a shout out as well in this with the fish people in the river. So yes, it's good. I like that whole thing about the alien spacecraft crashing in the middle of Venice. the AI trying to keep
the memory of the crew alive. It's a good... I quite like, and this is going to make me sound really boring, I quite like run -of -the -mill Doctor Who. I think this is a case of this is run -of -the -mill Doctor Who. It's a fairly traditional Doctor Who adventure. And that sort of, by comparison, lets the really standout stuff.
shine a little brighter and this this is this this sounds awful and i don't mean it too um i really don't um but i think after the first episode and then coming before the end as well and the end is what i mean by one of those sort of standout it's being a bit weird and unusual um it's nice that we get a proper quote -unquote traditional doctor who story here in the middle so I really, really enjoy it, as I say. And I like Valerie's enthusiasm. That's something that
keeps coming up. Well, certainly in the early part of the series, I think this is where it shines the most, is Valerie's really enthusiastic to get out and travelling in time and space. And it shows quite strongly in this story. I suppose it's not particularly long in the run before Valerie just starts to go through absolute hell. Like, her mum's already been killed, but it just seems to get horribler and horribler. With, you know, with nice bits as well. It wouldn't
be Doctor Who without nice bits as well. But Valerie has a rough time. Like, I think it's even acknowledged in the dialogue of the last episode. Like, yeah, that was a rough one. What about you, Will? House of Masks? Yeah, so as Jonty said about The Inheritance being a great episode one, I found The House of Masks to be a great episode two as well. I think it's interesting actually to hear in the extras that The Yearn was originally going to be episode two and things
got moved around. I think House of Masks, I think, fits better in that mould, in that... we get we're still sort of learning about valerie and so this story sort of splits them up and has them do different things but also brings them back together and we see some of that um chemistry between them and uh jacob dougman and sapphire and go have excellent chemistry which is going to come up throughout the whole series and um yeah i mean as connor said there is it's certainly
a feeling of sort of standard who but there are some some nice little emotional touches that i think really heighten the story a little bit such as um they say like we're having a marvellous party to which she responds you would have hated it and things like that and then you have Valerie asking the doctor about the time war a little bit of gridlock in there which also comes back later on in Broken Hearts and I like those little touches that I think bring it up a little bit
as well I think there was I get the feeling that throughout this series there was a feeling of just bring it back to character always. And I think that serves the series very well. And so, yeah, I just generally found myself enjoying House of Mask quite a lot. Yeah. And as an aside as well, on your point about, you know, Valerie really starts to suffer as the series goes on.
Obviously, we've already had her mum dying, but I do wonder if they just realised that Safia Ingarr does sadness so well that they were like, we must publish Valerie whenever possible. Let's just be horrible because the performance is so good. It's like that meme you see, like I've accidentally become good at work and now my life is ruined. Let's have a look at the end then,
which is not the end, it's episode three. This is where we get to Time Spiders and it gets timey -wimey because we had to have a timey -wimey episode, didn't we? We're doing... We're doing mid -air at Moffat here. It's got to be timey -wimey. So talk to us about the end, Connor. Yes, I find it difficult to recall much about the two strands because I find it difficult to tell what happened in one strand apart from what happened in the other, unless I've listened to
it in the last 10 minutes, which I haven't. But it's really good. I think it's the standout episode of this first set for me. So as you say, it gets a bit weird and a bit tiny -wimey, which was what the Moffat era did really, really well. I like the concept of the Doctor and his companion and these guest characters of the week scurrying about inside this spaceship trying to find out what's going wrong. And it's cool to get the two perspectives on it, you know, for the two
different timelines. I think this is where Valerie sort of starts getting put through the ringer during her travels with the Doctor. I know she's put through the ringer a bit with the death of her mum in the first episode. But there's a bit in this one where it's the first time that she sort of questions the Doctor and that comes back
later on where she's like, she has to die. um and she has to try and they're they're coming up to the next loop i think and she has to try and like pre -warn herself that she has to die um and she it's the first time that she sort of goes why why do i have to do this this is terrible and awful why do i have to do this and that becomes a fairly major that becomes a really major thing later on in the series um her questioning the doctor's methods and what he thinks is fine
and okay is is not necessarily so um so it's cool that that shows up here for the first time yeah it's this episode does sort of in some ways feel like another day at the office i guess like it it's not particularly part of the big bad storyline um but it's It's very good for that type of episode. It doesn't feel like a slump. It's that exceptionally engaging. Will, what do you think of it? So, yeah, I thought this was a really great episode. I think, like both
of you, this is my standout of the set. It's the first time I've heard anything, I believe, from Ruchana Patel, and that's now a name that I look out for because of how much I enjoyed this. I do like a good conceptual story and I think this handles it really well. I think one issue that it could have fallen into is that when you do this with the two time streams is that you can feel like you're just listening
to the same scene twice. It's a bit of a criticism I have of flip -flop, I suppose, where once you listen to one disc, you kind of know what's going to happen in the other disc. Whereas I think here, I think it manages not to feel that way just by getting the storylines to branch out quite quickly. in, you know, relatively interesting ways. They end up in different places. Obviously, one has the Doctor more active, one has Valerie more active and things like that. I think the
Time Spider is a great idea for a villain. I wouldn't be surprised if we see them again in other sets. I know we do. Spoilers, we do see them again later down the line in this series. But I mean, wouldn't be surprised if they end up elsewhere. And it really... does pack quite an emotional punch at the end. It's quite moving as we hear the Doctor and Valerie slowly succumb. And that, yeah, I found that to be actually very emotional and really well done. And yeah, it
was overall just a really good story. I think that, I suppose one thing I didn't mention on the structure, the twist of the fact that it's not two parallel timelines, but it's actually... And so that was the first set. And it's a really good set. That's like three really, really solid episodes that have set up. an awful lot of what's
going to be significant later on. We still have characters to meet and that kind of thing, but we've just got a damn good TARDIS team who've had three really good adventures together at this stage. And I do like the cliffhanger at the end of this first set with the Doctor suspecting it's a Time Lord that's involved, which actually has an interesting... resolution further down the line. And I'm glad that they did what they did with it as opposed to the obvious thing.
So let's move on to set number two, which is the last one we're going to look at in this episode. Although we're going to do Broken Hearts as well. We're counting it as part of this set. Let's have a look at All of Time and Space, which is...
It's hard to describe, actually. Blimey. Let's have a look at All of Time and Space, which is not the episode you'd expect to resolve the cliffhanger beforehand, certainly, but it all gets a bit meta and we deal with the idea of the Doctor and Valerie being characters in a fiction and all that kind of thing. It's something that's been done before, it's something Big Finish has done before, and it's done quite well here. I do like the story, it does get a bit run -aroundy
towards the end, but... As far as I'm concerned, the quality is remaining high with this one. Connor, do you want to talk to us about it? Yes, I think the closest analogue to this that I can think of is it always really reminds me of The Wizard of Time, which was the Roy Gill story from the fourth Dr. Leela and Margaret run, where it sort of takes... It sort of does Doctor Who within Doctor Who or a version of Doctor Who
within Doctor Who. And it's based around this guy, Ellery Quest, as he tries to create Doctor Who. There's similarities to the actual origin
of Doctor Who. It's quite funny. At one stage, the guy... uh they goes to meet and tries to pitch it to you at the theater tells him take this to the bbc they're looking for something just like this um i always it always sticks in my head as well the bit with the doctor and valerie as like punch and judy puppets um that's a really really funny image and i like that they're having to hop around all the different mediums there's a bit with the turn up and the archers um I really
like that. It's quite funny. There's that sort of offbeat humor to this, which I really appreciate. Yeah, it's a good one. I like the tie it in as well with sort of the wider 11th Doctor story that was going on at sort of this point in the TV series where he's trying to get the universe to forget him. And that's where, you know, that's how Ellery Quest sort of gets created. It was someone who was writing a biography of the Doctor.
The Doctor goes around and rewrites history and takes himself out of that, and this guy suddenly ends up writing a fictional story that's quite similar to Doctor Who then. So, yeah, I like it. It's a really likeable story, and as I said, there's a quirky sort of humour to it that I really enjoy. Yeah, it's definitely the quirky one so far. It's good word, quirky. What about you, Will? Yeah, I found this to be a... Great,
fun, another conceptual episode. I know Tim Foley was on a tear around this time and potentially I think still is. With this coming out, I think a month after A Friend of the Family, which is incredible. I think you've covered it on the podcast before. Sorry, spoilers, by the way, it's not actually written by other requests. I don't mean to throw him in it like that. Yeah,
I found this story to be really fun. One thing that could have happened is that if you described it, it sounds like quite a visual idea with the Doctor and Valerie as these puppets and on comic strips and things like that. But it works really well on audio and they add some nice little sort of sound production things to make it flow very well. And yeah, all the various guises that the Doctor and Valerie sort of take throughout are great. And yeah, overall, just a very... Just
a really enjoyable story. There was one thing I remember that came up, which was they had a YouTube video where they did a quiz. They quizzed Jacob Duggan and Safiya Ingar on various aspects. And one of the questions was, what is the name of the cat in All of Time and Space? So I'll throw that to you two now and see if you can remember that. Nope. It's on the tip of my tongue,
but I'm not getting it. It was Malpomene, which was, when I watched that, I got it, and I was like, why on earth do I remember what this cat was called? Because I'm sometimes so terrible with names, and I was like, oh yeah, yeah, Malpomene the cat, obviously. Well, now you've said it, obviously, yeah. I miss these YouTube videos. I've never seen that. That sounds quite good. I have to admit, I've missed a lot of behind
-the -scenes stuff with this. I've never listened to the extras on this one and sort of wasn't really aware they were doing YouTube videos and stuff like that. I wish to call that. The next one we've got is The Yearn, which is very significant as far as the storyline goes. This is... This is really the episode that kicks what becomes the ongoing storyline off. This is the sort of turning point where we're not just having fun
and Geronimo -ing around the universe. Now this is where things start to get tied down a little bit by places and people and ideas and concepts
and time itself. It introduces Roana, which is Valerie's... love interest throughout the rest of the series and obviously the yearn returns as well so we're starting to play in in this series toy box now we're really starting to figure out what it's about i'm glad that we've waited until midway through the second set to really start jumping into all of this because i think it's really important to have the time we've had with the doctor and valerie so far just For
the most part, just having adventures, sort of quite conceptual stuff, as Will's pointed out. But nevertheless, they've been having adventures. And this is where the adventures maybe start to take a little bit of a turn and sinister things start to happen. And as we've already pointed out, Valerie's time in the TARDIS isn't altogether that pleasant. And I think this is kind of that point. So talk to us about the year and Connor. Yes, as you said, it's quite an important episode.
It's one I have to admit that I struggled with a little bit. I found myself tuning out of it quite frequently. I usually really enjoy base under siege stuff, but I find it difficult to stick with this one. And that may well fully
be on me. whenever i was listening to it just not not paying attention um but i don't remember a huge amount about it the standout absolutely is romana and you can see why um they wanted her to be a part of the series um as valerie's as valerie's girlfriend um so i really really enjoy those scenes whereas valerie's sort of falling in love with her and and they're getting together um And as I say, I enjoy a base under seed story, but I struggled a bit with, for whatever
reason, with this one. And it hasn't really stuck with me, I must admit. I think this is more of a story about what it's setting up and what it's going to lead to than actually what happens in the story. Because I'm kind of the same. I couldn't give you a synopsis, but I can tell you why it's significant. Yeah, because Medruth features quite heavily throughout the later part of the series. Rowana obviously makes several return appearances and the urine themselves become important when
it comes to the last set. But it's like all the elements are there, but I couldn't put the jigsaw of them together again now. I mean, this is also a series where a lot happens and a lot is interconnected. So from this point onwards, it does kind of get difficult to go, oh, that's the one where that happens, I guess. Or maybe I'm just being charitable to my own terrible memory here. Will, what do you think of the year? Yeah, so I wouldn't say quite to Connor's level of, you know, I didn't
quite get into it. But equally, I think of all
of them. the year might be the most sort of standard who of them it's a pretty sort of standard base under siege story for a lot of it i know at the beginning you sort of have um the doctor and valerie sort of joking a bit about like um you know oh they're not going to believe this and there's going to be like an uptight sort of guy you know in charge and things like that and so they sort of lampshade it but equally that is that does happen that is what this story is um
i think As Connor has said as well, the romance stuff is the best stuff for me. I find Valerie Rana to be really believable. I find the Doctor sort of third wheeling and not really knowing what to do quite funny as well. And there's also the little bits of world building around Madrid as well. The Tracer Circle thing and stuff like that is just nice little touches as well. It's interesting for the year and going into the extras.
Because I believe, if I remember correctly, not only was this going to be episode two, but Rowanna wasn't going to come back and the truth wasn't going to come back or any of that originally. And that's a very interesting sort of look into a very different 11th Doctor Chronicles, because, of course, Rowanna's in load to the second half and we get a hold of other stories about the truth and things. And so, yeah, that's a strange look and sort of sideways glance into what could
have been. So, yes, I think. Overall, I think the urn is a pretty good story, if, again, sort of more of a standard story, especially coming after the end and all the time and space. Yeah, it's... I don't think we're dropping in quality here at all. I just think that this episode has different things to do than everything we've had so far, because all of a sudden... The series isn't about the Doctor and Valerie exclusively
anymore. But yeah, it does what it needs to do, and it definitely pushes the series forwards. So next up is Curiosity Shop, which I've got to be honest, it isn't my favourite. I've seen this one be a bit divisive. I've seen that there are people that really like it. It just doesn't quite work for me, and I can't quite identify at which point. doesn't particularly work. I think that everyone involved just seems to be giving it everything they can. It is a good script.
There's a nice little concept there and the idea of the Doctor forcing Valerie to literally tear herself apart and all this kind of thing. It's really good stuff. I just... For some reason, the whole thing just doesn't come together. And I just don't think it's something that was destined to all come together. It does kind of give us a pretty decent emotional gut punch. And I'm glad that carries on to Broken Hearts. I'm glad that, you know, we did get Broken Hearts. We
were never meant to. But it just, yeah, the episode for me, it's just never going to be my favourite. And like I say. I think everybody involved is brilliant. It's sort of slightly heartbreaking to say I'm not a big fan of this one, but Gus gives us a good script. Dublin and Ingar give us great performances. There are some wonderful ideas in there. And this is kind of the Doctor dealing with a war while not really being the
Doctor. And, you know, obviously... When Does the Doctor Stop Being the Doctor is a theme in this series and it's a theme in the series that this is set around. So it definitely has its place. I just don't think the production fully comes together for me. But you may have differing opinions. Connor, what's yours? I would not call myself a fan of this either. I have no problem marking it out and saying that this is unfortunately
the weakest episode in the series. It's a shame because I haven't listened to the extras, but I understand from it that Jacob Dudman wasn't keen on having to perform all the classic Doctors that he wasn't familiar with. And if this is the thing, Jacob Dudman could do a really good impression of the, like a really damn good impression of the 11th Doctor. And beyond that, there are some that he's good at, and then there's some that's, certainly in this story, he's being made
to do them for the sake of it. I think it's obviously come from, okay, we've got this guy in who's a fantastic impressionist. Let's make him do all the voices. But they haven't actually given any regard to whether or not he can do the voices to the same quality as the main one, the role that he's playing throughout the series. And it's just a case of him, I think, being made to overextend his talents and it not working.
And it falls very, very flat as a result. I mentioned earlier on that I'm not a big fan of the 11th Doctor. The way he behaves towards Valerie in this is just the perfect example of that. I don't think he's a particularly nice person. That's sort of the point, I think, of The Eleventh Doctor and the way Stephen Moffat wrote him sometimes
is that the Doctor is not a nice person. He's an alien from outer space and he's so completely different to us that it's not possible to say, oh yes, he's a nice person or he's not a nice person. But there's a callousness that's on show here that's really unlikable. And it's just not my sort of Doctor Who, I'm afraid. And it's not
Jacob Dubman's fault by any means. The fault lies entirely with the decision to make him do all of these voices that he can't do to the same extent as he can do the 11th Doctor's voice. and it doesn't work, unfortunately. I think you make a very good point about Eleven not being particularly nice. I want to like the Doctor as a character through any incarnation, and I'm happy the Doctor 2 be challenging, the Doctor 2 have. moral quandaries and all that kind of
thing. I love the concept of the war doctor. I quite liked sort of the early Capaldi era, am I a good man, sort of soul -searching stuff. It's a shame that a lot of that never quite got developed as far as it could. But you're right, here he's just nasty. And it's perfectly believable. This is something I can see the 11th Doctor doing. But at the same time, it's not particularly something I want to see the 11th Doctor doing. Anyway,
Will, what do you think of Curiosity Shop? So I think I find Curiosity Shop to probably be the most frustrating story of this run, in that there are actually a bunch of things that I like about it, but there's also a bunch of things I'm not so keen on. So I guess if I start this off that I like, so we've got a story written
here by James Goss, you know, Mr Torchwood. basically at this point and i think um if you put if you wanted a story with a sort of dark oppressive tone that this has he's definitely the guy to go for it i i like sort of the evolving relationship between valerie and golas i think some of that's done pretty well and i like um some of the stuff with the way the doctor progresses in that you know we see him sort of in the background first he's not he doesn't want to get involved at all
then he wants to leave it to authority and then gradually he starts trying he starts trying to help people before finally becoming himself and those little moments where so someone's doing his voice of the 11th doctor impersonating these other doctors but sometimes his 11th doctor voice will fully break through and sometimes that works really well um in terms of the stuff that i wasn't so high on um i found that so Basically, from the beginning of the story, when you hear that
he's impersonating the first Doctor, you kind of know where the story is going to go. And it does just sort of go there, I think, in that you get Valerie goes to see the Doctor, Valerie goes back to see Golas, Valerie goes to see the Doctor and so on. And I think over an hour, it struggles to really hold my attention for all of that through. I think it's seven previous Doctors. And so that was one aspect. Another
one, I think. connor talks about is that i think dublin's fantastic throughout this series and his 11th doctor is very very good um but he can't do that for all the doctors so his 11th the one reason his 11th doctor is so good is that he doesn't just have an 11th doctor voice he has a variety of 11th doctor voices that he can use for whatever the situation needs which really you know helps his performance whereas for these other doctors It is just a little bit of an impression
and he feels a bit stretched because of it. I know they're not meant to be the actual previous doctors, but even so. And I think another point that I had with it was that I guess we follow Valerie throughout this story. And then at the end, it kind of feels like the stuff with Valerie is wrapped a bit too neatly. I know this point is a little bit moot is what we're about to talk
about, but you get like. When I was re -listening to this for the podcast, it struck me that in the end, there's a bit where I think it's when Valerie's dying and the doctor starts saying something and Valerie says, it's not about you. And then in, you know, this is about me. And then in all the time and space after Ellery finds out it's not real, again, the doctor starts saying something and Valerie says, it's not about you.
And then there would have been a perfect time here for Valerie to say that and she doesn't. Of course, we do get that later, but that was something that struck me. at the time when I listened to it. So yeah, overall, a bit mixed on it, but yeah, there's stuff in it that doesn't quite work for me. And considering we're two full sets in here, to have only one story that we've not all just completely raved about effectively is still a damn good achievement. The hit rate
of this series is very, very good. So we're definitely allowed to have one that we're not so keen on. The one thing I can say about this is it's still doing something conceptual. It's still an idea. It's not, you know, generic of the Daleks. You know, it's not a story that we've heard an awful lot of before. So it gets points for that, I
guess. And this next story that we've got to discuss, the last one we're going to discuss today, Broken Hearts, it's kind of interesting how this one came about because obviously it wasn't part of the original plan. It wasn't released as one of the sets. I believe it was recorded last. It was recorded after the rest of the series over and done with. Although if either of you know better, please do tell me I'm wrong. No, you're correct. It was. Yeah. Okay. Thought it
was. And it does kind of answer what happens in this story, because this story kind of leaves a lot of stuff unsaid. And it would have been exceptionally jarring to go from Curiosity Shot to Spirit of the Season. So I'm very glad that Broken Hearts exists. So it's an absolutely cracking,
more or less two -hander. Really does kind of explore... that idea that connor was discussing of the 11th doctor not being particularly nice and you know valerie genuinely sort of has enough of him at this point she's like i'm not doing this anymore you're horrible go away leave me alone um and it's a shame we never got something like this on telly because it's it's a great idea and you know the 11th doctor deliberately destroys amy's faith in him and we don't get
a reaction like this and i wish we had i actually wish we'd have had that just outright fury um and it's it's really really well done here and if nothing else this episode is absolutely a testament to just how damn good these two leads are um just brilliant stuff uh so connor talk to us about broken hearts I think it's fair to say that certainly from the perspective of how it impacts the Doctor and Valerie's relationship for the rest of the series, it's the most important
episode of the whole run, certainly to my mind, and I found it really difficult to listen to the later sets, and particularly there's times towards the end when things are getting apocalyptic and the Doctor's not quite living up to what he should be. And Valerie's getting really cross and annoyed with him. I find it really hard not to look back at Broken Hearts. And that sort of colours their interactions for the rest of the series for me. As I've said, I'm not a big
fan of The Eleventh Doctor. And I've sort of given the reasons for that in that. And certainly on display in Curiosity Shop, I think there's a nastiness there. that Curiosity Shop puts on full show. I like this story a lot because there are consequences for that. And it's Valerie taking the doctor fully to task for the way he treated her. And he absolutely deserves it. And there's no beating around that bush. The way he behaves towards her in Curiosity Shop is absolutely appalling.
and this is the consequences, and he completely and utterly deserves it. Dodman's performance is fantastic. There's a bit in this where I think Valerie says, I wish you were dead, and he says something along the lines of, yes, so do I. And you can feel his heart, the Doctor's two hearts breaking, and yours along with it. It's absolute rock bottom for the Doctor. I cannot think of
a time when the Doctor was lower. And he has no one to blame in this but himself because the way he treated Valerie before was appalling. It was such a necessary story after Curiosity Shop and I'm glad that they went back and did it. It would have felt very strange going straight from this into the next story without. or going from Curiosity Shop into the next story without some sort of acknowledgement. So I'm very, very
glad that they did this. Yeah, considering it was, I don't want to say thrown together, but it certainly was sort of done last. It really does have an impact on the whole series and I can't imagine the rest of the series without it being there. One day... I might actually listen to the whole run without it and just see if it works, if it works the same way and all that kind of thing. But yeah, it's a really, really significant episode considering it was not meant
to exist. Will, what are your thoughts on it? You said this was your favourite, so go ahead. So you can probably guess some of my thoughts on it. So I remember when this was announced, Lisa McMullen did a big sort of thread on what was then Twitter. sort of explaining why she wanted to write it, and she did various interviews and said, like, if people don't like it, she'll give a refund and whatever. And you can risk, I think, overhyping it, but luckily, in this
case, this is fantastic, I thought. I just thought this is just such an excellent character piece. I think McMullin really dives down into who the
11th Doctor is here. Like, when he's... he's facing this conflict and at first his impression is that to treat it with humour he starts making jokes and Valerie's not having it and then he becomes a bit self -pitying and self -effacing and Valerie's not having that either and then he gets angry and then gradually he sort of peels through the layers to find someone who like desperately doesn't want to hurt people but is absolutely capable of it and I think Dougman also performs
this throughout just excellently and It also ties into this sort of the Moffat idea from this time that the doctor isn't incapable of being cruel or cowardly or actually perfectly capable of it, but they strive not to do that. And it's I think it tackles it really well. The scene where I really loved, I know Conrad already mentioned the scene I really loved as well, is the bit where we sort of go back to House of Masks and Valerie asks the doctor how many people he's
killed. not including the time war because they've already spoken about that and that it was like necessary evil and things and uh but how many people has he killed if you don't include that and the doctor is trying to sort of ostensibly calm valerie down but in reality keep himself calm because of the you know the um weaponized weather that's coming which also by the way is just such an excellent idea especially for a story like this and then he does snap and uh
you know he says he's killed too many people and he can remember all of it and i i thought That whole scene was just great. There's a great sort of emotional climax in the story and Dortmund performs it brilliantly. It's one of his best moments, I think I've heard him do at Big Finish. And I remember I watched, I listened to this
story while out on a walk. And I actually, when I got back, I came in through the door and I went, sat on the stairs and I listened to that scene again because I just thought it was done so brilliantly. And then I haven't even talked about the stuff with the robots, which again.
i just really enjoyed it it ends up being uh actually quite heartbreaking which is potentially what you wouldn't expect with these two robots talking and just seeing them sort of become more alive i suppose the story goes through and develop the relationship and i think uh the way it all comes together at the end is just such a great exploration and yeah and um i think you mentioned it as well they're talking about the doctor and amy but you do start to think about Or are there
things you could do this type of thing in other eras, like the Seventh Doctor and Ace after Curse of Fenric or something? It's just such a great idea and done very well. Yeah, it's a really simple story. I'm assuming it's done on the minimalist of big Finnish budgets there's ever been, but it's just so powerful and effective. I really do think this series needed it. The series was going very well, but it needed this, and it really gives us sort of a big moment, pretty much slap
bang in the middle. And it also meant they kind of got to ape the format of Series 7 by having an individual special slap bang in the middle, so nice coincidence there as well. So that's our first... two sets and the bonus extra little bit done. So we'll come back another time in another episode and we'll discuss the second half of this series and, you know, head into that big Daliki finale that I just think works
brilliantly. But I've really enjoyed just chatting about this so far and it feels like we've covered sort of two distinct mini, I guess, phases of this era. You know, there's... There's the bit that builds up the Doctor and Valerie's relationship, and then there's the bit that breaks it down. And it feels like we've gone through pretty much a whole arc with these characters already. So we shall leave it there. We will be back for part two of these 11th Doctor Chronicles Series
7V. I'm sticking with that, Series 7V. It works. So I will say a huge thank you and goodbye to Connor. Thank you very much. And a huge thank you and goodbye to Will. Thanks very much, and ta -ra. And it has been good to have you on at long last. Yes, it's been good to be on. We'll definitely do more. At least come back for part two. Yes, I promise I will, yeah. That's the plan. But we'll leave it there, and we'll be back with more Spodcasting very soon. Goodbye now.