This is a podcast for coaches. I'm Mark Butler. I'm here with my friend Chantal Allen, who I wanted to bring back on the podcast. And I remember us maybe having something we were going to talk about, but now I don't remember what it was.
Yeah. I'm going to be launching a new program here in a little bit for coaches. And yeah, so we were going to just have a conversation around it. So
remind me, is it, you and I've talked for a couple of months now about creating practice spaces for coaches. Is that what you have in mind? Remind me what you have in mind.
Yeah. So this is not that yet. I foresee that being something that I implement maybe collaborate with in the future. But as of right now, I, this program is more for an intimate one on one coaching program for the time being. And then with the information and getting the just maybe some more gaps and things that I can see in there, I would love to create a course for coaches. It's in the near future, but this is just like a subset before that, that the goal is to get more information from it. So
I think when you and I talked the other day, you had mentioned it's something you're going to do one on one, but it's with this specific intent of mentoring the coach, helping the coach become more skillful, more confident. Is that right?
Yeah, because this is my belief and you can tell me what your thoughts are on this Mark, but I believe you can't help somebody if you haven't gone to that level yourself, like you have to be willing if you're willing to do emotional work, or if you're wanting to help somebody.
I see this all the time with clients is they're wanting to give their clients, these amazing tools that they're hearing about, but they often are hitting these blocks or these walls because they haven't been willing to do the work themselves first, or at least go deep enough to get that work done first. So the hope that I have is to help coaches. Let's go deeper. Let's help you build confidence because you're doing it first.
Then you're going to have the skillsets and the ability, the vulnerability to now, you Help your clients do that.
Can you think of an area in which I'm putting you on the spot here so we can, yeah, we can pause and brainstorm, but can you think of an area in which, or an example where you might observe a coach that you can tell hasn't done the depth of their own work and how that might sound? In their coaching versus someone who has, and how that might sound. What does this look like in the wild?
In the wild? Okay. So I have thought a lot about this 'cause I, I have to be careful that I don't think I know better than what I think coaches are aware of. So I have to be careful with this. But this is, I think that's why I'm trying to create this, is to see if people do resonate with what I'm seeing as a gap in coaching. But what I've noticed in the wild, I love how you word it like that is pe I notice coaches are talking a lot more.
they think they have the advice that the code, their clients need a little bit more. So a client will present with a situation that they're going through.
And instead of maybe diving and asking more questions or getting clarification or even reading their client a little bit more, they dive into the strategies or the tools that they have been trained on, which is amazing, but they're leading with that rather than taking a step back and having the ability to sit and read their client a little bit better.
What do you think contributes to coaches falling into that pattern?
So this is, I'll even just speak for myself. I think it's because you're trying to prove to yourself that you're a good enough coach. That's just my take on it is I think it's a prover. It's a striver. It's an achiever. That's coming out thinking like, okay, if I speak enough, or if I show that I know this information enough, then I'm doing a good job as a coach. So it comes back without them realizing.
I think this is something I had to come to my own realization of is, It came back around to okay, Chantelle, you're trying to prove something to yourself in a roundabout way. So it was that's why I'm saying I had to do a lot of healing for myself. I had to stop proving, I had to stop striving. I had to stop trying to achieve things through my clients. I had a lot of work that I needed to do to calm down. You're good. You're whole, you're complete. No matter what.
And if you're watching this actually So I have to be like hey, I'm gonna post for just a short period of time, so you can see what my video is like. So I'll be like, if I post for a week, I can't think of a video of an umbrella that I post for, maybe a week or so. But if I wanted to show you down a little bit, with my coaching business.
Oh, yeah, I used to do this. I think I've told this story a lot, but I used to do this in my money coaching practice early in my money coaching practice. Like we're talking 2015 and I would lose sleep at night over my client's money choices. Oh yeah. And it made me eventually admit to myself that I must have believed that the purpose of the practice was to get people to do what I thought they should do. But, and I agree, I wasn't aware of this, but I agree with you in hindsight.
It was so that I could feel successful and so that I could feel in my case in particular, so that I could feel confident that people would keep paying me so I could pay my bills, et cetera. Yes. The idea that I would let go of my client's choices at the time was terrifying to me.
Yeah. I think, and I love what you're saying there is we try to, without realizing it, trying to get a clients to some kind of result so that we can say Oh, I do give my clients results or, Oh, I do give them breakthroughs or a hot ahas. Like I always, what's interesting to me, and I'm not saying this is across the board, but I often see coaches trying to leave their clients on a high note.
Like they, they want them to walk away from a session feeling good just so that they feel good that, Oh, they got something out of this. And I would actually push back and what is wrong with having a client leave mad or upset or in an uncomfortable place. And I think that would hit on, you ask yourself that question, like what's wrong with my client being upset? You'll find there's, it's hitting on something. It means this about myself or it means this about whatever.
So yeah, I think it's just changing that too.
I think I'm guilty of that a percentage of the time, in the last two, three, five minutes of the call, maybe I want to offer them hope or point out the positive, or I'm going to have to look at my, I'll have to watch myself. I don't know if I do that all the time, but I think I would be prone to that. Here's a story that proves your point. I was working with my own coach. This is probably five years ago now. And this is a coach. This is Bev. I can't, I don't know why I would hide who it is.
It's Bev Aaron. I was working with Bev and we were having a session and. Bev was so great. That was such a great experience for me in one session. I can't remember why, but I got so angry. I just felt this rage building me. It wasn't at Bev, of course, but just whatever we were talking about, I remember being caught off guard by how angry I became in the middle of the session. And then the session ended and she texted me that night. Totally well intentioned.
I could see myself doing this and she just texted and said, you good? Cause we left it not good.
Yeah.
And I replied and said, oh yeah, I feel amazing. It passed quickly as we know, emotions do.
Yes.
Because what she facilitated for me was the allowing of the anger to just come up and be there. And I would say within minutes of the end of that zoom call, I was probably just bounding off to do whatever I was going to do for the rest of the day. So she did check in with me, but she didn't try to Take my negative emotion as a way of soothing herself. And I think coaches are probably very prone to that.
And again, I don't think it's all or nothing. I think it's like, we can never leave them on a positive note, like always make them pain leave in a painful place. That's not what we're saying either, but it is, it's just watching our tendencies as coaches is like, what is the goal? And I know we always talk about, especially in the life coach school, just, we don't want to have agendas. But if we're not careful, we sometimes still have agendas.
Like we say that logically, we don't want to have an agenda with our clients, but you can sometimes feel like if something's happening with a client or whatever, we might inadvertently step in with kind of an agenda of trying to get them to go someplace or feel something or whatever. Yep. And so it's just it's just, we want more observation with our coaching is really what it comes down to.
I heard, I won't remember where I got this the other day. Oh, I do remember where I got it. It was a TV show. It was almost like a documentary style show where a therapist's interactions with her clients were The show and it I only made it through one episode. I actually ended up hating it. But, in one of the interactions in the show, a therapist said, our only job is to increase their understanding of the current dilemma, or it was something like that. I was like, that's, I'm stealing that.
I don't like this show. I'm stealing that though. Yeah. Because yeah, we're trying to bring them into higher awareness.
Yeah.
of what they're currently facing. I think there's some other contributing factors here to why we, and I include myself in this, why we might talk too much sometimes. Number one, I think we slip into the belief that coaching is more about answers than it is about questions. Yeah. Agreed. Like by default. Yes. We think that coaches, coaching is about answers.
And if coaching is about answers, then the quality of our coaching is determined by the answers we have the cleverness that we bring to a session. And if I believe that coaching is more about answers than questions, then I have to talk more because I have to share the answers. And I know that I slip into that sometimes. Hopefully the balance is right. But again, it's just something to pay attention to.
One. I also think that if you have to know so much, then you have to constantly consume as a coach too. And again, I love to learn, but it's just, it's this vicious cycle of I have to know more. I have to go through more trainings or more, whatever certifications. And again obviously I'm offering a program, but it's there's a nuance to that too, where it's like, what are you trying to feed? You're trying to feed something. Cause I don't, I love knowledge, but I honestly what do you think?
I know you gave a little bit of a definition there, but what is the purpose of a coach?
One of the most important purposes of a coach is to bring, is to, man, I'm not phrasing it well. It's to help their client connect to the truth, but that's not the same as connecting to the answer that I have. And it sounds really cliche and cheesy to say to help the client connect to their truth, but that is actually what I believe.
I agree. Oh, I totally agree. I was listening to Oh my gosh, I'm going to get it all wrong. Hanks. I can't remember his name. The podcast, I can't remember, but he had another coach on and he was actually an athletic coach. And he said one of, he had one of his athletes come up to him years later and he said, you know what coach, the thing that helps me the most about what you did is you never told me what to do and how to do it.
You just gave me the space and the unconditional love for me to figure, know that I had all my own answers. And I love that. I think to me, it's a coach and this is piggybacking off of yours. It's more of like we hold the space of unconditional love for them to be able to have the ability to let the anger come out and let the other things come out without judgment or trying to fix it. It's actually Hey, I'm here. You're safe.
You're let me just hold the space for you to let all of this unravel so that you can figure out the answers that are totally within you.
Some other time I want to do a call with you where we do talk about not the opposite of that. Cause I, it's I want to put in the footnotes right now. And I want to acknowledge that I completely agree with that. And I have experiences both as both client and a coach where suggesting an alternate reality is incredibly powerful. Yes. Agreed.
Just not
in a gaslighting, terrible way.
But again, Mark, I think it comes down to what you said, you've been the client before. So you've done the work to know what that balance could look like. So I think it is like understanding as a coach, if you have not done the deeper work to happen, to know and facilitate, Hey, how do I just hold unconditional love in this place? And how do I also facilitate a new reality here? Like you wouldn't be able to read the room a little bit better.
If you've been on both sides, you've been willing to do the deeper work.
Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Absolutely. That's true. I want to talk to you about the deeper work in a second. But first, I think there's another factor in why coaches can fall into the trap of talking more than listening, giving answers more than providing great questions. And that is, most of what we observe in our community is answer giving. Five years ago now I was in a room with maybe 10 or 15 people who were all participants in a coaching program.
And at some point in the interaction, I said, wait a second. Do you all think that coaching is 15 minute interactions? Where you're one of hundreds of people on the call and the coach is very clever and says some kind of mic droppy sorts of things and then we go on to the next person and the consensus in the room was. Yeah. Wow. And I said, okay, no problem. It actually doesn't mean that's bad. It means that's a way this happens.
And I see so much benefit in that having happened in our world and in our community. Okay. Let me tell you about another type of coaching and in this type of coaching, you and I sit together for 50 minutes or an hour or more, and I ask you questions and I mostly keep my mouth shut and you talk. A lot. And you wander around and you change your mind and you go off on tangents and we just go exploring together and they were surprised and curious that was a thing.
Yeah. So I think it's
because it's most of what people observe and it's a lot of what coaches observe. Then when they get into interactions with their clients, they pretty much just do what they've had modeled for them.
Agreed. It's so it's performative. It's a performative coaching almost.
It can be. Yeah.
It
can be. And that's frustrating sometimes, but yes.
But I understand it too. Cause I've been in the room sometimes where I'm like, Oh my gosh, like that hit me. I appreciate that. So we do try and mirror that. Yep. But I also know, and I don't know if this is also true, even though that hit me, it still didn't transform me because it's just a good statement or it's a good, whatever. It just still didn't take me deeper. If that makes any sense. So
it does make total sense to me because one of the things that I feel like I observe In my fellow coaches who've mostly experienced that type of coaching and, or what they did in their certification programs is they tend to reach for the tools that their community has named. And like these are our tools. They tend to reach very quickly for those tools, both in their interactions with their clients and in their interactions with themselves.
Yeah. And my observation in coaching some of them one on one is. They're too quick to reach for a tool and it robs them of the deeper experience, the deeper insight into themselves. I can reach for a tool as a way of deflecting and avoiding, and it's actually way too easy to do that. So I will sometimes hear myself saying to a client who's a coach, if they wanna reach for a tool in the conversation and use it to deflect, I will do something, which I think is pretty transparent.
I don't think I'm so clever. I pretty much will say, okay, just pretend that I don't know what that means. How would you say that if I didn't know what that means?
Yes.
And I'm just trying to redirect them off the tool as an escape hatch and get them back into okay, but what are your thoughts and your feelings? And can we spend time there?
I love that. I love that so much because again, it's, you're asking questions, you don't know where they're trying to go. It's, you're just facilitating okay you've put a cap on. What you're wanting to see, can we go below that for a little bit? So
I think that's beautiful. When you say deeper work what does, what are examples of deeper work in your mind?
So I spoke to it just a little bit, but I can go a little bit deeper if we need to with this, but I just, so even on the last podcast I was on, we talked about the fact that I am an overachiever. I love to prove things. I love to I'm just, I love to hustle. And I understand now that a lot of that, and I'm not again saying it's bad. I think being able to get things done is an amazing thing.
However, what I've often learned is those type of behaviors is usually out of some kind of trying to hide away from some kind of thing that I grew up with, or I'm trying to not feel a certain thing, or I'm not trying to Whatever it is, like some kind of uncomfortable, negative emotion of some kind. And so now I'm realizing we have to do the deeper work in order for us to really facilitate an open space. I think about this with my kids all of the time.
If I as a mom, I'm trying to be a good mom because I just don't want to feel like I'm a bad mom, then I'm weird in my interactions with my kids. So I have to actually, and I know it sounds cliche, it sounds whatever, but I have to heal. I have to heal that part of me. That's so afraid to be a bad mom, because that's something that I grew up understanding or whatever, like you shouldn't be a bad mom. Your kids need to be happy. They all need to follow this straight path.
And it just, I can see how that has created different interactions in my kids. So it's the willingness for me to go and be like, you know what? And this sounds so weird to say it out loud, but I'm okay to fail as a mom. I don't even know what that means, but that's what we're so afraid of is I'm okay to fail as a mom. I'm okay for my kids to not like me. I'm okay.
And even as I say that I can feel the resistance in my body, but I'm like, that's what actually you have to be okay with in order for me to show up and be the mom that I actually do want to be. And so it's the same thing if we translate that over to our coaching, I noticed at least for the first couple of years, I what we were already saying, like I needed to prove I need to get so many clients in a certain way in order for me to feel like I'm doing a good job.
I'm like, what if I am okay with not getting another client? Like what happened there? And again, so much resistance comes up, but I have to heal that. In order for me to show up authentically vulnerability, like all the things that we talk about, I have to do that deeper work first in order for me to actually be the coach that I want to be.
That's really good. This idea of the way you just said that made me think getting clients isn't about the clients. If my added, if I'm, if I feel driven or anxious or urgent about quote, getting clients, that's not about them or for them. It's about me and for me.
And it's tricky because of course we do also have yes, I do want to help my clients, but I think it, like what you said, the anxiety, the pressure that's there, that's an indicator that there's something else that's going on there. What if we never get another coaching client? What do we make that mean about ourselves? What if we don't make another dollar in our business? What do we make that mean about ourselves?
That will tell you a wound or something that is you're operating from that is usually actually preventing us from getting our clients. Cause whatever we resist. We persist. So if you're so afraid of not getting clients, guess what? You're not going to get any clients. So it's just crazy what we do.
When you imagine working with coaches on these kinds of things, like in this new program, how do you imagine the interactions going?
I honestly, it is a lot of just coaching them. And just understanding what their underlying beliefs and things that they, again, it's the blind spots, like being able to hold the space for them to see what they haven't allowed themselves to see. But I've, so I've done this with so many coaches already up to this point. And the thing that I hear over and over again is You show me what powerful questions look like. And just asking me those questions has made me a better coach.
Because if you go through that experience, you're obviously embodying it. So sometimes we like put so much into it. I need to be mentored or I need to, and I get that. But I think again, you living through your own coaching experience. That is training. That is you going through and getting mentored. I'm more than happy to in our coaching sessions, if they have a specific question about Hey, can we talk about this? Absolutely.
But I probably will always bring it back to what are you making it mean about this interaction or what is coming up for you in that interaction?
It can be really hard when someone's asking you a tactical question to tell them. Your tactical question is the wrong question. And I have to be careful because I do have a know it all tendency and my know it all tendency can rear its head in a client relationship. So sometimes my urge to say your tactical question is not relevant right now is actually it hurts trust. It hurts rapport. And I think it can hurt the coaching relationship. So I try to put myself in check and also.
I want them to hear me say, you're asking me about this little tactical thing here about your practice. I'm promising you that absolutely nailing that little thing about your practice will have no impact on your practice.
Yeah.
It's inconsequential. It's fun to think about. It's a fun place to play. Maybe it's an amazing distraction, but even if you absolutely nail it, there will be no measurable positive impact on your practice. I'll give you an answer, but i'm going to follow that answer with remember This is a lot more about you and your internal state than it is about any specific tactical application of a thing in your practice
Cause I'm sure if you any of the coaches that are listening here, they may have been like, I've tried all of the things I've checked off all the boxes and I'm still not getting clients or I'm still not whatever. So it is, it's, if you start to look at it, like really the boxes are not what create our business. It really is. I've noticed this change and I love this phrase that I heard someone say that it's it's, we're shifting from hustle to heart.
And I love that so much because it really is like the hustle used to work back in the 60s and the 50s. It needed to it was something that we needed. We had to perform, but I really do believe where we are right now in this society and where we are is just human beings. And we have to stop hustling so much. It's not working. Like you literally, I talked to so many people, like I'm working 80 hours a week, or I'm working 60 hours a week, and I'm just not making ends meet. I'm like, I know.
So let's slow down and let's understand what is going on. It's that whole cliche of slow down to make more slow down to have more impact. It's we say it, but I think a lot of coaches want to put the, but, or the and on top of that to say no, but I really do need my websites or I really do need my Instagram, or I really do need. And I'm like, That's what is that solving for? You're solving for something that you're not letting yourself see.
Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's true. We will still do tactical things in the business. We'll have a, we'll have a plan in our business that may include a website or an Instagram page, feed, whatever. It's how we view those things and how we view their importance in the creation of the practice we want.
Yes.
That obsessing over those things. It doesn't, It's not going to, it's not going to compensate you for the obsession. You won't get paid for that work. You get paid for the internal work and then you figure out how to express the internal work in the, it might be expressed through a podcast. It might be expressed through one on one conversations offline. It might be expressed through a website. It might be expressed on Instagram. The way you express the internal work varies, but.
You have to express internal work. If the internal work isn't there, what in our particular coaching community, all of us who were born and raised in the life coach school community, the days of checking off to dues associated with our businesses setting up a Facebook campaign or whatever the days of that producing any sort of. Reliable result are gone. It it is. Over. Now, that doesn't mean that Facebook campaigns don't work. What it means is just the act of checking the box.
Yes. I have my website. I have a Facebook page. I have a campaign. I have written an ad. Checking those things off by itself, it, it doesn't produce any, unless it's supported by the internal work, the character, then there's nothing that's going to come of that.
And I've noticed that lately, even for myself, is I've started to go back to Instagram finally. But I noticed for a long time it was like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to get on here. I'm supposed to post every single day. I'm supposed to put on a story. And it just felt so heavy and so just overwhelming. And I would be so much in my head of what do I have to put out there? How do I say it the right way? How do I. Whatever.
And what's so interesting in the last probably two or three months, as I've been still doing my own work on this of trying to calm down the prover, the whatever inside of me, it's so much easier. Like I will just have a moment where I've done maybe an hour of silence or something like that. I just naturally like, Oh, you know what? I want to share this with everybody. And it takes me two seconds to get on my Instagram really quickly, create something. And I just let it go.
I'm not attached to how many likes or how many, and it's been fascinating. How many more DMS, how many more likes, how many more shares, because I'm not attached to what it is that I'm putting out there anymore. Yep. And it's coming so much easier. And I think that's what coaches need to realize. If we're not trying to prove anything to yourself, or if you're not trying to solve for something for you, your clients are going to be, there'll be so much more attracted to that.
Cause I really do believe people can feel when you need something from them.
Oh, absolutely.
So it is. Yes, you might have the answer, but if you're doing it to you feel it's like this manipulation almost.
Oh yeah, it is. It is that, you just said the phrase an hour of silence.
Yeah.
What? What?
Yeah. I know. I know. And this is weird coming from me who is like such a busy body used to be. I really, I've got to stop saying that because that's not how I identify anymore. But I, so I obviously I'm a member of the church, Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. And we really talk about prayer and holding space and meditation. And it was from At One Mint. I don't, I'm sure maybe a lot of your people are familiar with Thomas McConkie's book? Yes. Yep. His At One Mint book talks a lot about that.
It just, it's so interesting in this day and age, we want answers, but again, we think we have to have all of our answers consuming it. And he created this idea, not created, he just, he shares this idea of, we need more space. We need more space in order for us to actually connect to ourselves more to connect to even being able to be divinely guided is what I really do believe is we can't stay so busy and try to consume all of our answers. It's, are you willing to sit in silence?
And let whatever needs to come up, whatever needs to be felt needs to be felt. I will tell you when I say it, people are like, Oh, that it first off, they're like, it sounds miserable, but it's not, I promise. But also I think people think it's supposed to be like this positive, beautiful thing. And I'll tell you lawyers a lot of times where it's just like a squirrel nonstop. Like it's just like anything else. It's my brain wants to run the show.
But I, it's, I think again, it's like the experience of getting on the treadmill of I'm just getting on to show myself. I can sit here and this is just as valuable as me doing anything else, if not more. And I will say when I do those things, I have way more energy. I have way more focus. I have way more, it's just crazy what again, slowing down does for us in the long run.
I'm fighting the urge to ask you about all the tactics associated with your hour of silence. So I'm not going to, because the essence of it seems to be you sit in silence for an hour. Yes. How often do you do that? And however you
read that. Like however you read that. Cause some people are, they do. They're like, does it have to be an hour? Do you listen to guided meditation? And I'm like, whatever feels the best to you, again, my way may not be the best way. So it is like learning, okay. Take the meat of it. And then create it however it feels good for you to create it again. Don't get so caught up in the tactics.
Are you pursuing a specific state at the end of that hour? I don't imagine it happens every time, but do you finish an hour of silence and have you identified a sort of quality of being at the end of that, where you say, yeah, that was what I wanted from this experience today, or that's, I want that to be what I get from this experience. Typically, or how do you think about the whole habit?
I love the question. And I think it's, I don't have an answer for every single time. I, my goal more often than not, it's what I do, even with my coaching sessions, I try not to go into it with an agenda of any kind, because then I feel like it's a controller in me a little bit. That's coming out to try and get to a destination by the time that I'm done. But there is those times where I go into where I'm maybe I'm really struggling with something.
And so I am more, I think of it like more of a prayer or a conversation where I just this is where I'm at. Like I'm struggling with this. I've just be very careful about not getting attached to trying to get to an answer or peace or clarity. Would that, I would, I like that totally. But I feel like if I try to get there, that's where I have a lot of judgment about it or I'll get done with an hour and be like, I didn't get anything out of it. So why am I even doing it again?
So I think it's different every single time. I just, my ultimate goal is just more connection to myself. And then mine is to my Heavenly Father, too, where it's just I want this hour, because I truly believe coaching is such a beautiful conduit for, I think, for a Heavenly Father to help us guide people. more. That's just me putting a little bit more of my faith into it. But that's what I want is if I bring more of that into this, I find my day goes easier.
I feel like I'm guided a little bit more on how to say things because I'm not in control. I'm never in control, but I like, I have that surrender moment in the morning. It helps me throughout the rest of the day.
This is the kind of work you'd invite other coaches to. And
absolutely if they wanted to. And I think, again, there's a lot of coaches that I've worked with that are not of the LDS faith. And that's, I think it's great. Like connect to the universe, connect to higher power, like whatever it is for you. But I do find us stopping the control. That's, I think the biggest thing as coaches, we're trying to control too much and just notice that controlling isn't working.
So it's more of a surrendering moment, whatever you want to surrender to, whether it even just is to yourself or to whatever you believe in. I would encourage more people to do that.
Powerful stuff. I think maybe we'll end there for today. Sounds
good.
We just sent people to do you have ChantelleAllen. com? ChantelleAllenCoaching. com.
Yep. And I can also give you a link that goes directly to getting on this wait list. If they want to just click on that, it'll launch on the 22nd. So
I. I am excited for anyone and everyone who goes through this experience with you, because I do feel very strongly. And I think I have a lot of evidence that a coach becomes a different coach, a different practitioner after working with their own coach and doing a different type of work in a one on one setting than they ever do in a certification program, a group experience, a membership. I have my own membership now.
I would never, I don't want anyone to ever think that participating my membership is a substitute for a one on one coaching experience. One of the reasons I make the membership so cheap, frankly, is that I don't want it to feel competitive with money that people might spend on a one on one coaching experience. I have been coached by you. I was coached by you last week. And
I
was a sneak attack by me. And I really appreciate the space. You hold the questions. You ask the neutrality. More people need to have coaching experiences with coaches like you. Some of them are going to have coaching experiences with you, but more coaches need to have coaching experiences with coaches like you. So we will send them to that wait list and we're figuring out how you're going to be a contributor to the office hours program.
Okay.
I would
love that. I would love that so much.
This is me cornering you.
Okay.
In public and demanding it. Yeah, I think you have so much to offer and to give. And so I'm excited to figure out what that looks like.
Happy to help. And that's, I think it is, it's just more of I want to help serve because we need more coaches that are can get this out to more people. So I totally agree with that.
I do. I want there to be so many internally regulated, loving, skillful coaches out in the world.
Yeah,
your practice, my practice, lots of coaches practices stay pretty full, which means we want there to be a lot more coaches to serve the people that don't have a coach yet. There's no shortage of people who would benefit from the support of a skillful coach.
And if you believe that it's too saturated, that's another reason why to get your coaching because there's a belief there too. Cause I noticed I get caught up in that as well, where I was like, Oh, there is Mark and there is Chantel and they are whatever they've taken all the clients. I promise you, I echo what Mark says. There's so many people, even right now in this economy that need you and they will invest in you, but you have to believe that first.
Yeah. And you have to believe they're there. And frankly, you have to stop thinking about it. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Stop thinking about the economy. It's so indulgent. Stop it. Stop thinking about competition. Stop thinking about the economy. It doesn't matter. Yes, there are a jillion coaches but somehow it doesn't impact a skillful coach's ability to serve clients.
Cause they need you not another coach. They need you. And that's why I think you doing your deeper work will attract the right people to you. The people that you've gone as deep with yourself, they will want that same deepness. And I, there are still a lot of coaches out there and again, they're great at the how tos and the strategies. What we're talking about is no, there's a lot of those. We want the deeper stuff that really does move the needle.
Yeah, totally agree. Thank you, my friend.
Yeah, this is fun.
Always great to catch up with you and We'll talk to all of you in the audience next time.