This is a Deeper Listen from KEXP. I'm Emily Fox, and today I want to introduce you to... My name's Matt Cameron. I'm a local Seattle musician. Been doing it here since 1983 when I first moved up. And I'm doing it, I've been doing it ever since. He's probably best known for being the drummer of Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. But he's been involved in so many other influential Seattle bands that helped set the stage for these Seattle big hitters.
and he's been doing it for more than 40 years. He hit the ground running after he moved to Seattle from his hometown of San Diego in his early 20s. I caught up with Cameron to hear about his career and how he's been able to keep at it for so long. So give me a rundown of all the bands you want in order. What? Where's my list? Get your list out. Okay, notes.
Let's see, when I first moved, I guess the bands of note were, the first thing was Bam Bam. That was like 83, 84-ish. We need to pause and talk about that for a second because on this show we did a feature on that.
A few years ago. We did. About Tina. About Tina Bell, yeah. She was a black front woman of how we kind of saw it. And I think around the time that we did the story, there was a lot of just kind of like blogs going around and conversations, you know, I think on social media about Tina Bell of like, how come we didn't hear of her? She seems like this black front woman of what was kind of like this pre-grunge band. Yeah. Looking back, being in it like.
How would you describe Bam Bam and just its influence on the scene? Well, I think at that time, like early 80s, there were a lot of really unique bands in Seattle. So I think in that sense, it was awesome to have all these different elements come together for Bam Bam. And I think that they stood out to me just as a young musician player and everything. I thought they were awesome.
But I guess they, you know, they didn't really make as big of an impact as we would have liked. But I think, you know, looking back, it's been really interesting to see how much of an influence that Tina really did have, you know, and total trailblazer, just total trailblazer. Like she experienced the good and the bad of being in her position, you know. How so?
Oh, just, you know, the racism, sexism, misogyny that was rampant. And it still is in the rock scene, you know. But, yeah, she had to endure some of that. But total badass. Was there anyone like her in the scene? Like, it seems like it was mostly, I mean, obviously the grunge scene ended up being very dominant, like male, white dominated. But, like, in the scene that you were in at that time with Bam Bam, did you see any other front women?
Well, there was like the Fastbacks were kind of, they were out there. But no, she definitely stood out and stood apart. So there's Bam Bam. What else? Bam Bam. Okay, that was kind of 83-ish. And then I sort of went into this... I hooked up with Daniel House, the bass player for Skin Yard, and Jack and Dino. And Jack and Dino, who's produced for so many bands. So he's like the legendary grunge producer. We started playing music together, writing together...
Jack lived in this amazing house on Finney Ridge. His basement was set up. He set up this makeshift recording studio basement with a four-track reel-to-reel, and everything sounded amazing coming out of his basement. So we did a lot of recordings together, played in bands.
And then, you know, just playing with Skin Yard and Feedback and Bam Bam, I was able to plug into the local music scene at that time and just meet everyone involved and, you know, go to the clubs and start playing with people and I guess getting my reputation out there. And which eventually led me to my Soundgarden guys, you know, just that whole family starting and, you know, just...
Everything in between. And then you're in Soundgarden and then at some point Soundgarden breaks up and then Pearl Jam recruits you to kind of go on tour with them as the drummer. So you have to learn all of these songs. I do. Okay, Emily. So that whole situation, that story was like, I was calling Stone Gossard about a record I was releasing. I wanted to ask him to put it out on his label and stuff. And Eddie intercepted the call.
And asked me if I wanted to tour with him that summer. Yes. And I think there was like, you know, a short amount of time to prepare for.
A six-week tour, I guess it was. So it's one of those things where you say, yes, of course I will. And then you have to learn how many songs? And then you hang up the phone and you look at your hand and you're just like, oh my God, what have I done? Probably like 40-ish, 40 to 60-ish, something like that. I knew like 20 or I knew like 15 songs or something like that. That's part of the gig.
Well, I want to talk about Soundgarden for a bit, but before we kind of go back in time, I want to mention that you just performed with the surviving members of Soundgarden at a Seattle event called Smooch, which is a benefit show to benefit Seattle Children's Hospital, a fund that goes to family and needs there. And it's a great concert. I mean, so many like...
Seattle big hitters play at this show. And you recently played, not as Soundgarden, but as an anagram of Soundgarden called Nude Dragon. And so it was the first time that I believe all players have played in Seattle. You've gotten together since.
Chris Cornell's passing, but what was it like to be back in Seattle playing on stage again? Well, it was great. It was super fun. I was a little nervous going into it, you know, just all the emotions rose to the top. But yeah, New Dragon. So that was just kind of a fun way to play the music again.
If we do more stuff like that in the future, it would be as New Dragons. And so New Dragons, the history. So like my husband was telling me back. So he's lived in Seattle much, much longer than I have. And he was like, there was this show at the Showbox. And my friend was like. 2010. 2010. And my friend was such a huge super fan of Soundgarden. And, you know, the marquee says New Dragons. And he walked past it and he goes.
Soundgarden's playing tonight. He figured it out. He figured it out on his own. That's a super fan for you. God bless him. And my husband was like, what do you mean? It says nude dragons. So what's the story behind that name? It is an anagram. Kim and one of his buddies, they came up with the list. And we liked nude dragons the best. The other one was rounded snag. Okay. Was another one we were going to consider. But yeah, anagram. But that 2010 show, was it like a secret show?
Yeah, we tried to keep it a secret show. And I remember that gig, it made the 5 o'clock news that night on King 5. So we were kind of happy about that. But that was our big comeback show after we decided to reunite and get back together, do some more concerts, make another album, give it another go. And yeah, that was the first New Dragons event. Yes.
As we kind of mentioned, you've also played in Pearl Jam, but when you had to hop into Pearl Jam, you're learning all these established songs versus when you're with Soundgarden. I've also heard in an interview that you said that you helped form Soundgarden's sound, especially as it compares to Pearl Jam, where you're having to learn all of these pre-established tracks. So, I mean, talk about how you, as a drummer, how you feel like you helped form Soundgarden's sound.
When I joined the band, the band was starting to develop as songwriters. Just the creative side of the band was really starting to take hold. Chris, especially, was really starting to write more material at that point. When I joined, it was a lot of stuff that they had written as a trio. At what point in the band's formation did you arrive? 1986. I was two years into the band being in existence. At that time, they did have...
Probably like, you know, 20 songs or something like they had a bunch of songs at that time. So they were not in need of another songwriter. But that's eventually what I wanted to try to get to, which I did eventually. But when I first joined, yeah, I learned all their music. And then I guess I brought something to the table that was my own thing that the guys felt like, OK, we could really dig into this new element of the band.
Just the way that those songs are on the record and the way the band played together was, a lot of it had to do with, like, when I think I came into the fold and helped guide the way the guys played together, basically. Which is what every good drummer helps to do in a band. And Chris Cornell, he started off as a drummer, didn't he? Yeah, he sure did. He was the first drummer of Soundgarden, yeah, when they were a trio.
And I saw him play drums in another band in Seattle at the Ditto Tavern. So, yeah, he started as a drummer, drummer-singer. Yeah. Which I feel like is so rare to see. Yeah, I know. No, it's hard to pull off. Yeah, I have a vocal background. I was like, man, that's a lot of energy to go into one thing and then have to breathe properly and sing and have enough energy to get.
you know, your voice out the way you want to. That's a lot. It's next to impossible, Emily. So, I mean, what was it like for you? I mean, did you and Chris have a certain type of relationship because you both understood the drum so well? Totally. Totally. And you said you eventually helped write or did write some songs for Soundgarden. What were some of those tracks? I guess I started writing during the Bad Motor Finger era, which is 91.
And then during the super unknown era, super unknown era of 94, I wrote a couple tracks on that album. Mailman... And Limo Rack, which I'm kind of proud to have co-written. I wrote the music and Chris did the vocals.
Eventually, Soundgarden breaks up. You get picked up by Pearl Jam to go on tour with them. And, you know, at that time, you had to learn all these pre-established songs. But I wonder, you know, obviously you've been with them since. So when was that that you first started playing with Pearl Jam again? Just so I could know the timeline. 98. 98. And you've been with them ever since. Yeah. So I'm guessing since then you've had some flexibility to...
incorporate your own drumming and influence and songwriting to the process? Boy, I sure hope so. No, I think so. It was the type of thing where you have to come in and keep an established thing going so the audience can't feel too left out. A new member comes in and wants to change everything, which I certainly didn't want to do. And I don't think I did do that.
But yeah, it took me maybe a couple records to start writing stuff and having it be more of a creative outlet for me, which is always important. But the guys have always been great and just super awesome people to work with. I mean, it's a great organization to be a part of. Well, I've got a lot of music-related questions for you. Let's go. First off...
What is the hardest song that you've ever had to play for a band? There's one by Wayne Horowitz and Pigpen called Speech. That's my hardest one. That's one that I read a chart for different time signature every bar or two.
Crazy rhythmic phrases, but all kind of in a way that sounds really cohesive and cool, and you can kind of tap your foot to it. So it would be that song. And where did you perform that? I performed that here in Seattle at the Royal Room. Every time I play with Wayne, we always play speech. Okay, cool. And that's one that I memorized, so I kind of gave myself a pat on the back for that one.
Do you have a favorite song from each of the bands that you've been in? Either a song that you just have played that you've loved or a song that you helped contribute? We didn't talk about Temple of the Dog. Oh yes, we need to. There's a couple songs on that record I really like. One is called Times of Trouble. And the other one is called Your Savior. I felt like I didn't help write it, but the drum part of that one I like, and it seems to have stood the test of time.
Well, we got to talk about Temple of the Dog because I feel like that was so interesting because you look at all the members that are involved in Temple of the Dog. Yeah. There's you, Chris Cornell, and then like a ton of members of Pearl Jam, which was Pearl Jam in existence at that point? No. No, Eddie had just come up to Seattle. So they were working on what became the first album.
So I think they were playing as Mookie Blaylock at that point. But it's crazy to look back in time and see where all those members went, and they all went somewhere. Yeah. What did it feel like in the time that you were with Temple of the Dog? Well, you know what? It was just one of another sort of project that I was pursuing in a super busy life that I was having in my 20s and 30s.
had all these cool opportunities that I didn't say no to, and that just seemed like one of them. It seemed like a really cool idea, and we were all super crestfallen after Andy passed away. Andy would. At the time, it felt like a nice thing to do. And it came out great. Jesus. And it took like, you know, two weeks, something like that. It's one of those things where we practiced maybe three or four times together and then just wrote, you know, went into the studio and recorded it.
So Temple of the Dog. Temple of the Dog. Okay, let's see. Soundgarden. I kind of like, I like the big four songs we have, like the ones on the radio. I think those are like great songs, like Black Hole Sun. Spoonman. Spoonman. Come together with your hands. Save me. I'm together with your plans. Save me. Outshined. Yeah! and burden my hand. Like the big four. I think those are great. Pearl Jam, I love this song called Garden. It's on their first album.
And Oceans, I love that one. Small Town, like whenever we play Small Town live, the whole place just lights up. So it's always fun to play that one. And then You Are from Pearl Jam. That's one that I co-wrote. Yeah, and then there's like, gosh, there's other projects like Well Water Conspiracy. There's... a song called Felicity Surprise that I think is a great song.
You had such a long longevity, right? So we're... Still doing it. So 40 years you've been doing this? We've been doing it 40 years. 40 years. Yeah. But I kind of did like at least five down in San Diego. Like I had a good five-year run down there. Cover bands. I had a couple like high school rock bands. I put in some hours down there too. But it's just crazy. That sounds about right, I guess.
the, the bands that they all, you know, so many of these took off to such an intense level. Right. I mean, did you realize that at the time or is this all just like, wow, I just got on this escalator and here I am at the top. Totally. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, so much of it is luck, you know, being at the right place at the right time. Oh my God. Yeah. That's like, how did I get here?
Totally. But like when you were joining some of these bands, did you have a sense like when you're joining Soundgarden, like, oh, this could really go somewhere. Or does everyone feel that about their own band at some point? Well, I think, you know, at that age, like if you're young and you're kind of playing in the rock, you're in that rock band world, there's a lot of bravado for sure. But I felt like even before I joined that Soundgarden in 86, I was a fan of that band. Like I thought they were.
So when that opportunity came up, I was like, hell yeah. And I think I personally did see the potential of that being a great, great band. So yeah, I definitely had that feeling with those guys for sure. And I mean, just like from like a longevity perspective, like burnout's gotta be a factor. Like you have a family, right? Like you've got kids, grown kids now. I'm exhausted all the time, sore.
To have done it for as long as you have. I mean, what are your insights? I understand you're also like a runner. What are things that you had to either make a point of in your life to be able to sustain this? Well, that's it. You have to sort of figure out a way to do it, right? And then once you figure that thing out, you have to stick to it. And what's your way? Well, staying.
super active, busy. I feel like with drumming and playing music in general, like this atrophy thing can happen kind of quickly. If you, if you don't stay consistent at my level, which is like super huge shows, like just huge, huge, hugeiosity on every single level. And, uh, and it's, it's a physical sort of like endeavor as well. Like you have to be in like top shape and everything. So.
I figured that out early on. Like if I was, like I did running as a teen. And then when I came up here, I continued and I, you know, I swam and bike, you know, cycles and everything. But I never, I never really drank alcohol or anything like that. Your whole life? Well, no, I did drink in the pandemic. I definitely hit the bottle there. You were not touring then? I was not touring then. So yeah, so that's never been a part of me.
But, you know, pot for sure. But I would feel like you would have to be, like, on all those live shows, you would just have to be so incredibly dialed in. Oh, you have to be. Yeah, for sure. You'd have to be, like, sober. The drummer can't waver. Like, the guitar player can have a couple beers and be all over the place. You know, I'm certainly aware of that. But that was... And then I figured out early on, you know, my role in Soundgarden was going to be that guy. Like, the fully, like, reliable, established...
thing that everyone can turn to. So yeah, man, but I dug it. I took, I was up for it. It's like, hell yeah, let's, let's do it. You know? So, I mean, yeah, just for me personally, it's just been, you know, an odyssey and it is for all of us, us professional players out there. Like, you know, we've got to figure out ways that to make it, to make it still happen. And I mean, I'm getting at the age now where I definitely am craving slowing down and
Not doing as much. And I'm not really doing as much. The PJ schedule has altered over the years in a really nice way. Because Eddie and I, we're praying for days off in between concerts. So yeah, it's nice when those things can happen in your career. But it's certainly not a given. I mean, most musicians I know just have to...
keep saying yes to pretty much everything that comes our way. How many more years do you think you have in you? Well, in this sort of like, you know, intense touring environment, probably not that many, you know, but I love playing. I love, you know, making records. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm still going to be playing. That'll never change.
How many days a year are you usually on the road? Well, I just had a big year and it was like, you know, seven months pretty much, like seven to eight months gone. But it's normally been like two to four per year, you know, months. So it's winding down a little bit. What was like the peak in your life? Oh my gosh. Early 90s, mid 90s, I was on the road probably 10 months, all of us, you know, we're kind of all out there, nine to 10 months out of the year.
constantly touring constantly playing playing gigs and then I got super busy like mid to 2010s when both bands started playing live that got that got crazy yeah like late 80s early 90s Soundgarden was you know nine not eight to ten months you know like almost every year and then we were how many years
Per like eight, you know, like seven or eight years straight, 88 to 97, you know, something like that. It was pretty much straight touring and recording, just, you know, working, getting record, record deals, trying to, you know, integrate with the music industry at that time and having arrangements with, you know, managers and just kind of the industry side of it all was, was a big learning curve for me, for sure. For all of us, we were just kind of making it up as we went along.
And it sounds like you were still based in the Seattle area. Is a lot of like the Soundgarden and Pearl Jam folks still based here? Yeah, pretty much. Like, you know, 90%. Which is amazing because I feel like, well, one, I feel like you gain so much traction so early on. Maybe you have the choice to choose, but I just feel like I see so many artists and bands feel like they need to go to LA, you know, because that's where everything is. Or New York. Or New York, yeah. So I feel like it's exciting to like...
hear a story of, of bands that made it big out of Seattle that are still here and choose to stay here and live here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's always been a great quality of life, interesting quality of life these days, but how so? Oh, just like, just the growth factor is just, Oh yeah. Off the charts. Yes. It's, it's, it's just kind of funny. It never appealed to me to go, go Hollywood or go flashy or anything like that.
So I guess that was something that I noticed in Seattle. Like it wasn't fancy at all. Like it's not really fancy people per se, but super talented and unique and proud and in our own way. What else do you want people to know about you and your story or career that we haven't gotten to? Oh, I don't know. I, you know, I think I've always tried to like.
Do things outside of the big rock bands that I'm known for. I think that's really important to me as a musician. And what are those things usually? Oh, just like side projects, solo albums, things like that. Just collaborating with other musicians, small recording project bands, things like that. I really look forward to those moments when I can set aside enough time in my year for them.
I guess that, you know, I was thinking about how it's sometimes hard for drummers to like think of themselves as artists because like you're in the rhythm section, you play a supportive role. So I want to try to identify as an artist as I get in my later years. Well, I think so too. Like a thought that's come to my mind is that, you know, as a drummer, like you've played in all of these.
bands that everyone recognizes but people may not know your name because they always know like the front the front man you know like no the front man's name but but i feel like and that's that's okay you've been able to live amongst like
so much notoriety but being in literally in the back you know of of the performers and being in the rhythm section like you still get to live life as some a little bit of anonymity i'm guessing absolutely compared to absolutely and i'm a-okay with that i never i never uh was seeking attention
But yeah, there is a nice sense of anonymity, like you said. Like you get to have all these life experiences without being chased around in a grocery store. I love it. I love it. I'm all for it. Yeah. That other side of it. No, thank you. No, thank you. Yeah.
So my final, final question is, you know, KXP, we're all about music discovery. So we've talked a lot about songs that you've played in, but I'm curious if you have a music suggestion for us of something that you have not played in a song that you just really love just as a human, as a music lover. Oh, you mean just like, like over the years and stuff? Yeah. Over the years or something that you're just really digging right now. Without you, Harry Nilsson, like that, that one is just blows my mind.
I can't live. I can't give anymore. I can't live if living is without you. I can't give. I can't give anymore. And Mother by Lennon, you know, just kind of that era. some of that air of songwriting. There's that song on a plane by Nirvana I thought like that's that's a song that That just came came from the ethers
And I'm curious, too, like at the time, like you were living, you know, playing and living in Seattle, like were you super fans of any of the other bands that were also coming up at the time? Like you just mentioned Nirvana. Yeah, well, U-Men, they were a big one for a lot of us in the 80s.
They were a really cool band. Visible Targets was like an 80s band that had these really great female sister singers. Same time as Heart, and I absolutely loved Heart when I was growing up in San Diego. So I'll throw them in the pile.
That was my conversation with Seattle drummer Matt Cameron. He's a drummer for Soundgarden and Pearl Jam, and also played in the influential Seattle band Skin Yard, Bam Bam, and Temple of the Dog. Here's a clip of the song Hunger Strike by Temple of the Dog, which features members of both Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, including Matt Cameron on drums. Oh, God.
And that was a deeper listen. Before you go, please do me a huge favor and subscribe to this podcast, rate it and review it. Those little things go a long way. It takes two minutes of your time. Do it now. It would mean the world. KXP is also a publicly funded station. So I also encourage you to think about giving $6 a month to help support this show. You can do that at kexp.org slash deeper. And thanks for taking a deeper listen.