Nathan’s Story of Perseverance, Faith, and Finding Purpose

In 2013, I met my then wife, well, I met her earlier and we got married in 2013. We were married for almost six years. When we got divorced, we had four children during that time. George, Trent, Rory, and Piper. And I am now living in Ogden, Utah. My kids live in Draper and. That's the, the gist of where we are today. Jethro D. Jones: Gotcha.

So let's go back to your childhood and what kinds of things, formed you into who you are? Like what memorable childhood experiences resonate with you today about, about how you are, how you are? There's two really big moments in my life that really resonate with me that I ponder on often. And that's, you know, most of it revolves around my dad. I had a very close relationship with my dad and, I always wanted to be by his side doing whatever he was working on, whatever project he had going.

And I, I feel like I got my work ethic from my dad. He always had us going out and doing service projects. Helping people, move and all sorts of things. And so it really instilled with me a good work ethic. Another thing that was very memorable, on the grounds of work ethic is all four of us boys. I have two, three brothers and three sisters. All four of us boys were, went to go help a guy do some landscaping and he had hired a bunch of other people to come work as well alongside of us.

And he pulled me aside one time and had me stop working and he pointed out a couple of guys that were standing around talking and he said, he asked me what's interesting about these two guys. And you know, I was probably seven or eight years old at the time and I had no answer for him. Yeah. And he said, see those two guys, they're talking. You notice how when they're talking, they're not working. And when you are when you're talking, then you can't be working at the same time.

And I don't know why that made such a big impression on me, but it's just one of those things that, that I think about often and it helps keep me focused when I am working that if I do slack off or start talking, to make sure I'm being productive at the same time. The second really memorable thing, that really formed my childhood is I'm very skilled with my hands and doing physical and manual labor.

And, remember when I was very young, I went out to help my dad change the alternator in one of our cars, and there was a bolt that he couldn't reach and he called me out and. Got my little hand up there to Unfasten Bolt and get the alternator out. And that was memorable in and of itself. But what really made an impression on me was how much he bragged about me doing that my entire life.

And it really helped me to take a talent that I already had and really foster that talent and make that talent grow into me being able to fix cars today and, you know, build houses and do construction and do physical and manual labor. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And in that aspect of, the, the first story of the guy pulling you aside and commenting on your work ethic at the time and the other guy's work ethic and then dad saying. This was awesome and bragging about you, those things.

Those are things that I would still say are true with you, that you are good at doing things like taking a bolt off of an alternator, or bracket or whatever. Those usually get pretty tight. So little five-year-old kid being able to not just get his hand in there, but then have the strength and determination to keep doing it and not give up and say it's too hard. And you've been through a lot of hard things in your life and you still push through.

And so that's another thing that I see coming from that story of, of having the perseverance to go through it. Yeah.

And it's not, you know, it's not always easy to push through those difficult times. There's a lot of times in my life where I have wanted to give up and, you know, I, if I, some, sometimes I look back on my life and don't know how. I've gotten through some of the trials that I've gotten through, but here we are today. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. So what, what would you say has made it so that you could get through those trials?

I know you say you're not sure, but now with some hindsight, what, has helped you? How have you managed that? to be real honest, I think the, through the hardest things in my life, I think that it really comes down to me just being too much of a coward to quit. with minor things in my life I'm able to push through, but with the hardest things in my life, I think I was just too much of a coward to quit. Jethro D. Jones: so how does that apply? are you afraid of the other people judging you?

Are you. Afraid of failure itself. When you say coward, what does that mean for you? I think it means a lot of just being a, too afraid to let other people down. Too afraid of being perceived as a quitter, afraid of, and pride in myself and, also just have not having any other option. Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. there, in, in all of our lives are choices that we make that lead us to where we're at.

What are some of the choices you've made that have led you to where you're at now, and what would you like to talk about with that? I think one of the choices. That I've made is more of a personality trait of mine that have led me to where I'm at. Is I, and this is a recent realization of mine and is that I get, when I make a goal, I get super hyper-focused on that goal. And some people would say that that's a good quality. Other people might say it's a bad quality.

Because when I get hyper-focused on something, I tend to neglect a lot of other things in my life. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Most importantly my relationships, you know, and I think that that's probably one of the things that has led to a lot of losing relationships, especially in my marriage, that I was. Too hyper-focused on reaching my goals, which were for the benefit of my family. But I did neglect my wife during that time, and I think it ultimately led to her downfall.

Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. And, you know, as men especially, we do all this stuff for our families, and, and sometimes they have a hard time seeing that because we're never around or we're we're focused on these other things or, or something like that. What's a specific example of that, that you're, that you'd like to share?

Well, in 2015 I started my own landscaping company and we were, I feel like it was very successful and, we were reaching a certain revenue goal and it was a revenue goal that was, particularly difficult to break through. But I really felt once I broke through that certain number, then the business would take off and I would finally be able to pay my family more money. We would be able to have a better lifestyle than we were living.

And, I just, I felt, I just knew that we were close to just breaking through that ceiling and reaching a point where we could finally breathe and relax. And there's seasons to life. There's seasons in your relationship where you have highs and lows. There's seasons in your career where you have highs and lows. And I was on.

I was on a high point in my career and I felt like we were gonna break through that moment and, I think it just became too much for my ex-wife and, ultimately caused to the end of our relationship. Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. And, so that hyper focus on reaching that goal made you take your attention away from the other things by just trying to get to that point.

And then you felt like once you got there, then you could relax a little bit and the systems and process would be in place so that you could keep going. so how, has that changed your life and how do you manage that now in your, the relationships you have today?

it's, it is still a work in progress because it is a. It's something I always knew about myself, but it's not something that I realized was such a big problem, because in my eyes I was doing, you know, I don't, I don't really do much for myself. I really thrive on doing things for other people. So usually those times of hyper focus come when I have the most people to let down.

And so that's something that I'm currently trying to work on, and now that I'm aware of it, I think that I can, be more aware. But being single now, I don't, I don't feel that drive and that hyperfocus to reach to a certain goal. I think mo mostly in part because I don't have anybody to share that Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Yeah. you, you've had trials and challenges. How have these trials and challenges, helped you have faith and deepen your faith and help your faith grow? It, it's been a difficult journey. But I, one thing that I am grateful for is that I know of the blessings that I have in my life, and I am easily able to recognize the ways that the Lord has blessed me and all the things that I still have and all the things that I was able to rebuild, after those trials.

And, so I, I'm eternally grateful for everything that I do have, regardless of what I've been through. And coming out of the other side of that, it puts a different perspective. Because, you know, sometimes it can be easy when everything's going good, when you have everything that you need. But going through those trials where everything gets ripped apart and your life is in shambles, that, you know, coming out on the other end, you don't see it in the moment.

But in retrospect you can see, all the blessings and all the, opportunity that you have in your Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. So, so being able to see those blessings now is, is good, but in the trials it's often difficult to see the blessings, especially when your life is in shambles. How, how did you deal with that when your life was in shambles and it felt like there was no hope? I didn't really, I gave up a lot. I, you know, I've always had faith in the Lord.

I've always had a testimony of Jesus Christ. And I don't think I ever lost that. I never chastised God for the things that I was going through. I never blamed him. I always took responsibility for my part in it. And, you know, I was horribly wronged in my divorce. And, so, I mean, to be perfectly honest, I, I didn't have. A lot of faith that I would make it through. I didn't believe that I could come back and I was broken down and beat down to my lowest.

And one of the quotes that I love the most, and I don't know if he came up with this, but Mike Mitz always says it. And so I'll quote him in it, that sometimes when you hit rock bottom, you, your face gets dragged along the rocks for another five miles. And so you don't always bounce back. It's not always a quick bounce back. And, just my, own cowardice of not being able to give up is what pushed me through that. And I didn't think that I would ever come out on the other end.

Okay. Jethro D. Jones: And now your life isn't perfect, but you are on the other end. What does that look like to be on the other end of that? Like, where are you at with your faith, with relationships, with, with things like that? do, you can talk about anything? So I guess one of my, recently I have been going through, I wouldn't want necessarily call it a depression, but I, would call it a period of trying to figure out what my purpose is from here.

Because I am currently single, I. Unfortunately have not been allowed to have a relationship with my kids. I have a great career and I have a lot of future prospects, but you know, I think being single and kind of just in a, limbo stage has caused me to ponder of what's the point. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Now I, you know, I think I need somebody to share my life with. But I currently don't have anybody to, and you know, I often sit and think, you know, I don't need this big house.

I don't need a yard. I don't need vehicles. You know, I'm happy living on the bare minimum. I could live in my camper trailer and be just as happy as I am now. You know? And so I kind of am going through a crisis of what's the purpose. And I often reflect on, well, I've been married in the temple. I have kids, I'm sealed to my kids. I, you know, what else, what else is there?

I was raised in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, where it was ingrained in us and indoctrinated in us that we grow up, go on a mission, get married in the temple, have kids, and that's how we make it back to our Heavenly Father. And I know there is more to it than that, but that's what's been ingrained in me. And, you know, so sometimes I feel lost in like, well, what's the point in being successful? What's the point in having things?

You know, those things don't make me happy, you know, companionship is what makes me happy. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. So you've, you've been through this challenge where you don't have relationship with your kids. You still love them? What, what have you learned about love and eternal families from that situation? Nobody's ever asked me that question before, and I'm not sure that I have learned much. I, and it. Certainly wasn't from that situation that I learned anything. I love my kids dearly.

I would do anything to have a relationship with them. But ultimately I just want them to be okay and for them to be happy. And if part of that means me not being in their life, then you know, that's what I'm willing to sacrifice right now. So that they can be cared for and taken care of as best they can without me. So I know I love my children. I know that I will be re reunited with them again, whether it's in this life or the life after.

And so that gives me solace, and as far as relationships, I, I know that I am capable of love. I know that I have a lot to offer somebody, and I do believe that, there is someone out there that is deserving of me, that I can share my life with. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So you talked a couple minutes ago about purpose, and we're gonna talk and record every year for the next, decade. So your purpose, especially now, if you're like going through a crisis with it, is likely going to change. But right now, what's your answer to that question? What is your purpose? I, I think my purpose, for now in the near future is to. Basically not blow up my life so that I can continue on.

Because there are times where it's like, I don't need to work so much to be able to pay this mortgage. I could sell this house and go live in my camper trailer. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. you know, I don't need this fancy truck. I don't need, you know, all these things that, that I've acquired. But if and when I get the opportunity to have my kids again in my life, I want to be prepared to be able to give them a life deserving and providing those things. And I also want to be prepared to.

Have to be able to provide for a wife someday as well. So in the near future, it's just, don't burn your life down because you don't need all this stuff right now. They can still be a tool in the future, for when you do find that person. And, and I think my purpose right now is, finding that person. And I know that, that that person's not going to give me happiness and joy. They are, you know, I want them to add to my Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm.

And, you know, I'm not in a state where, I don't, where I'm unhappy. I am happy with my life. I just, you know, sometimes I feel like I just don't need everything that I have. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, you know, you are getting that, you're 38, you're close to 40, you're gonna have a midlife crisis. Right. Like every guy goes through. And I'm I am terrified to turn Jethro D. Jones: 40.

I I feel like my life is gonna be over at 40 and I'm just not gonna be able to have the same vigor and drive that I do in my younger Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, let's, let's talk a little bit about your career and what's going on there. And you said earlier that it's a great career and what is it that makes it great? The stability and the fulfillment? So I am a commercial truck driver. I work locally and I mostly work for construction companies.

Of driving dump trucks, doing heavy equipment maintenance, stuff like that. And so I recently just got a new job where I am gonna be a heavy equipment mechanic. And the doing this line of work gives me a lot of fulfillment because I am helping build America. We do a lot of work on the Utah roads and infrastructure. We build a lot of commercial buildings, stuff like that.

And so we really are helping build America and give the things that people need, places to live, places to work, stuff like that. And so it does give me a lot of fulfillment being able to have this career. And I do enjoy it. It's certainly not something that I want to do for the rest of my life. And I do hope to in the future. To be more involved with real estate investing and, to be able to build a real estate portfolio, which I'm hoping to rely on for my retirement. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm.

And what makes that interesting to you? I think mostly, being able to provide housing for people and, you know, I'm a, I'm a dreamer, I'm a big dreamer and so I always fantasize about what the future's gonna look like when I do this and that. And so, um, one of the things that is. That I dream about and when I, um, go through the different scenarios of providing housing for people is, you know, having the opportunity when somebody comes to me and says, Hey, I need help. I need a place to live.

I can't afford this or that, and being able to have the leeway to be able to provide them housing at an affordable price. You know, not saying that I'm gonna provide cheap housing, but just having the autonomy to be able to decide this family is in need and I trust them and I think that they are deserving of it. And so I'm in a position where I'm gonna be able to help them. And so it means a lot to me to be able to be in that position to help other people. Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. That's good.

Um, so what are the things that you, in in going through the past, what are the things that, whether they're trials or blessings that have brought you closer to Christ? I think that my, I don't necessarily wanna say that going through my trials have brought me closer to Christ because I haven't been a very good steward of Christ in those, in those dark times. You know, like I said before, I've never chastised God for giving me the trials that I have been given.

But on the other side of it, I always recognize the blessings in my life. After going through those trials. And I know that God has pulled me through those trials, because I certainly didn't do it on my own and I certainly wasn't capable of doing it on my own. And they say that God doesn't give you any trials that you can't survive.

And I don't know that's a hundred percent necessarily true because I think that he gives you trials that you can survive through him and that he can pull you through. Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. so I think that, I think we do get trials that we can't survive, and that's where the atonement comes in. Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. That's really beautifully said.

I was reading in Saints this last week, and, one of the stories talked about a woman who was, whose husband was shot in the neck, and he was paralyzed in the 1830s. So imagine being paralyzed, your husband being paralyzed in, that day and age, and you have to take care of him. And then the Saints were expelled from Missouri and then Navu, and they're on the way. To winter quarters, and the US government says we need people to come do the Mormon battalion, so we need 500 soldiers.

And she had a son who was of age where he could do that. And she was like, you can't take my son. Like he, I need him here. And and she heard the spirit whisper to her, don't you want all the greatest blessings? And she's like, well, yes I do. And the spirit said, well, then you have to give the greatest sacrifice and and you have to let your son go. Which was going to be an incredibly difficult thing because she helped him with her paralyzed husband.

And, and what you just said really resonated that God's gonna give us trials and we're not gonna be able to go through 'em unless we rely on him. And, and to me it sounds like that's the purpose. So what, what helped you learn that? Because. I don't know that everybody understands that like you do.

I think just going through losing my kids was the worst thing that I've ever been through. I fought tooth and nail for my kids. And I gave it everything I had. I spent 109 days in jail as a result of fighting for my kids. I was persecuted and beat down and destroyed, and I wanted to give up several times. I didn't want to continue, and no matter how hard I tried to give up, I just couldn't. And I, I, there's just no other explanation for it.

And with my testimony and all the things that I've been through, I, there's just no other explanation for it because I know that. I didn't have the willpower to continue. And one of the things that I realized recently as well is, obviously nobody's perfect. Everybody knows that. And you can be successful and successful. You could do everything that you're supposed to do and you can still have failures and you can still be a failure. And I was a failure.

I failed my marriage, I failed my kids, I failed my family, I failed my business, I failed life. And that's okay. And it wasn't until recently when I was talking to my brothers and sisters at my mom's house that like. We, talked through everything and it was the first time that I felt like from an outside source that it was okay that I failed and there maybe wasn't necessarily anything else that I could have done. And I really honestly think I did everything that I could do and I still failed.

And I don't know that I could have possibly ever been successful in that situation. But I truly felt like it's okay that you failed and now it's time to come back. And even though you fail, it's still possible to come back. Jethro D. Jones: What does that mean to come back to be successful again, whatever you define success as, everybody has a different definition for it. Everybody has a different definition of failure.

Your failures might not be failures to me, and my failures might not be failures to you. And so whatever your definition of failure or success is, is your own personal definition. And you won't ever, you won't ever be the same person. You are always gonna have those scars. You're always gonna have those wounds. Some wounds will heal, some won't, and you'll never be a hundred percent back to the way you were before, until the second coming. And the resurrection.

And so it's okay to have those failures and it's okay to continue on, and it's okay to not be as successful as you were before. It's okay to be more successful than you were before, whatever that definition of success is. Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I think that's really insightful because it's easy to think, I'm, I didn't do this thing that I set out to do, and therefore I'm a failure and now I'm worthless. And, you're saying very clearly that's not the case.

Now, you didn't come to that conclusion right after that failure, right? So it took time and, now hearing you say it, you have such confidence in it and such clarity about it that it doesn't feel shameful either to you, that you did fail. Like it's just, you're just stating it like another fact, like any other fact. And do you think about that? do you have to work to not feel shame about it or do you, are you now oh, I don't even need to feel shame?

Where are you at with that and how would you, how would you help someone understand that piece? I do feel shame about it still. I am very shameful that I let my kids down. And I think that there's, there's different levels of it. I struggle with it every day. I think about my kids every day and I feel shame that I'm not a part of their lives every day. I don't think that'll ever go away. Even if and when my kids are back in my life, I am still gonna feel shame.

That's that scar, that's that wound that will never heal. I can never get that time back. I know that I did everything that I could do, but you know, the, the, the shame will still be there. And I have just decided that that's okay. I, that nothing's ever gonna change that. And I have to fight the, through those struggles when I have those down times. and, and I've told myself that's okay too. we don't have to be completely happy all the time. We can have regrets in our life.

But we have to just continue to try to get that healing, whichever way it is, through therapy and or reflection. And it's. it's taken me five years to get to this point. It's been, five years since my divorce. I haven't seen my kids in four years, and that shame is never gonna go away. Jethro D. Jones: So the shame is still there, but you're still moving forward with your life. How, do you do that?

I try to think of the future and, like I mentioned earlier, of setting my life up to be prepared for if I ever get to make amends for not having my kids in my life. And if they ever, heaven forbid something happened to my ex-wife and I have to take all my kids. I need to be in a position. Where I can do that. And I do have a house that I can house all of my children in comfortably. And I have a wonderful family that I know will support me and however I need support to be able to do that.

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. So you, talked about these down times. How do you, help yourself when you are feeling down, who do you turn to? How do you get support when you're feeling down? I don't, I don't turn to a lot of people and that's probably one thing that I need to work on, is I need to reach out to my support system. I do have two really good friends that I could call and talk to anytime. I tend to not want to burden them.

With it because, you know, we both know that there's nothing that they can say that's gonna make any of it better. But sometimes it just feels good to talk and I, I don't want to burden them with that too much. Because I know that they want to help. I know that they want to say the right thing that's gonna make everything better. And they just can't, there's just nothing anybody can do.

So, you know, I do have my, uh, my dog Rocky, who, which kind of funny story about him is he has kind of molded himself into an emotional support animal, where he has picked up on my anxiety and when I get anxiety attacks or I get a little over anxious, he comes and jumps on me. And it took me a long time to realize what he was doing. But I made the connection that every time he would come and jump on me and try to cuddle with me and I'm talking like in your face,

Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. you can't focus on anything other than me right now. You have to give me attention. And you know, to be honest, it was kind of annoying at first because I was being anxious and then I had this dog, this 90 pound German Shepherd come and jump on me when I'm feeling anxious. And it just kind of compounded the problem at first.

And then I realized I made the connection of what he was doing, and I noticed that every time I would get anxious, he would come and jump on top of me. And so that's been a good way for me to realize that, okay, I am being. Too overly anxious right now. I have got a panic attack coming on. I need to recenter myself. I need to, eliminate the things in my life that are causing me anxiety at that moment. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. You know?

And it's not a permanent fix, but it's, you know, something that helps me in the moment. It's an immediate, recentering that, you know, and it doesn't last, but it helps me in that moment. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I have one more question about the past. But anything else that you want to say about the past before we shift to the future or a lot of things that you want to say? Either one. I don't know specifically, but I'm happy to answer any questions that you have.

Jethro D. Jones: Okay. So, looking back at your life, what you know, now you have an opportunity to go back and give advice to your freshman self, freshman in high school, so you're 13, 14 years old, something like that. What advice would you go back and give yourself at that time in your life? Don't let anybody tell you that you can't do something. If you want something, you need to fight for everything to be able to do what you want to do.

And I have an interesting story about that. When I was a freshman in high school, the military came and did a recruiting event and I went to the recruiting event and I wanted to be a pilot so bad. I wanted to be a pilot in the Air Force. I wanted to be, I honestly didn't care what means. I got there and I saw the military as being the best way for me to reach that goal. and so I went up and after the event, I went up and talked to the Air Force recruiter and told him that I wanted to be a pilot.

And he said to me, you'll never be a pilot. Just go pick something else. You know? Oh, you can, you can join enlisted and maybe someday you'll get to be a pilot, you know, but you probably won't. So pick something else. Nobody, hardly anybody ever becomes a pilot. And I was pissed off. I was incredibly hurt. I felt dejected, and I thought, man, screw him. Screw the military. You know, I don't need that. If they're just gonna tell me no, then I'm not even gonna try.

And it wasn't until, it wasn't until several years later that I realized that he wasn't being a jerk. He was testing my resolve. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Because it is incredibly difficult to become a pilot in the Air Force. There's millions of service members and only a small fraction of those are Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. And where it is possible for anybody to become a pilot, you have to have that determination to be able to fight through the adversity that you're going to go through.

To become a pilot, you have to have a bachelor's degree. I. To be a pilot in the military, you have to be a certain physical fitness level. To become a pilot, you have to have a certain amount of, I don't wanna say iq, but you have to be fairly intelligent and have an aptitude. You have to have good hand eye coordination. You know, there's a whole laundry list of things that you need to become a pilot.

And if you can't handle one person telling you that you're never gonna be a pilot, then quite frankly, you're not gonna handle all the advers adversity that you have coming forth Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. And so that's why I, you know, I would tell my freshman self that, don't let anybody tell you that you can't do Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. because I truly believe, you know, 90%. Anybody can be anything that they want. Anybody can do anything that they want.

Especially nowadays, we, we live in the information era where you have access to so many opportunities. Everybody does. And you just have to be able to fight to get those opportunities and you have to be able to persevere through that adversity. And as a freshman in high school, I wasn't willing to do that. So I wasn't cut out to be a pilot. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. And so, Jethro D. Jones: yeah, I mean, the thing that is fascinating there is that.

One conversation with that recruiter could have given you the hope and the determination to do it, or could have tested your medal. And like both of those things can happen, right? Like let's say he said instead, oh, you can totally do this. I would love it if for you to be a pilot. And him having confidence like dad did when you were a kid, gave you the confidence to continue your mechanical skills and work ethic all throughout your life. And, and, and yet him saying you can't do this.

Um, you know, your attitude at that time was, well, screw you. I'm not gonna even worry about the military. What's, what's your perspective on that and, and how you think about things now? Well, and, and I want to be clear that I, I don't blame him for anything. He was playing his part, he played his part in my life that he needed to play at that time.

Where I made the mistake is that I internalized that and I kept that to myself and I didn't go tell the people that were champions of Nathan what Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. And I, I honestly, I don't think I told anybody for years, you know, that was always, that was always a story of screw that guy and not a story of this is what that guy told me and I need help.

Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. And I think if I'd have gone to my dad or gone to anybody and told them what happened, they would've said, don't, you know, they would've told me, don't let him tell you that you can't be a Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. You know, they might even have, have had the foresight to say, he's just testing you, he's testing your resolve. You know, I was at a very impressionable state in my life where I could have gone one or two paths.

And I unfortunately chose the path of defeat Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Path of path of victory. Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. How interesting. And, and that's such a, a pivotal moment for everybody. Your freshman year of like, you're starting to make decisions that will impact your life. And you know that, that's a good story to illustrate that.

I, I think the takeaway for me is going to your support system, going to the champions of you and saying this is what happened and, and not hiding that from them is, um, is really powerful. Yeah. And I, I don't know a lot of people that can look at a defining moment in their life like that where they had such a clear path in either direction.

And I am really grateful that I have the perspective that I have now of being able to look back and see a moment in my life where I made a decision that could have taken my life in two complete opposite Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the reality is that we have those kind of decisions, regularly, and little decisions, big decisions that come into our life and, and the choices that we make do impact the future.

So moving to the present and the future, what reaching far out 10 years from now, what do you see as your priorities and what your life looks like 10 years from now? Well, 10 years from now, I want to own at least 10 rental properties. I want to be retired from W2 work. I would like to have a spouse, but that's not, I don't feel right making that a goal. Especially with my issues of hyper focusness that I have.

I don't think that that's an appropriate place to put hyper focus in finding a relationship, 'cause that can get you into a lot of trouble of choosing the wrong person. So a desire of mine would be to be married again. But if that doesn't happen, I'm, you know, still gonna be happy and still feel fulfilled. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Okay. Anything else?

That those weren't big enough, like be retired from W2 work when you're 48 and, and have rental properties that are providing you an income for your life. Like, those are certainly big. Yeah, I don't, I don't know that I've given many other aspects of my life, much thought. I think a lot of the smaller things would be byproducts of the life that I want to have at that point. And so it's not really a main focus of mine. Jethro D. Jones: yeah. Okay.

So why did you want to do this podcast? Well I listened to yours and Stacy's podcast and I felt a strong prompting. That I should reach out to you and, show my desire to be on the podcast. And I've really, my entire life, I've really tried to focus on being open and available to listening to promptings when I receive them and acting on those. And, you know, that's how the Lord blesses us. And I don't know what's going to come of me sharing my story.

But the way I feel is that, you know, only one person's life needs to be changed by my words to, for it to be completely worth it. And that one person might just only be myself. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, it's the interesting thing is, when you reached out and said you wanted to be on it, I, we've had a rocky relationship and haven't talked much. And so I was thinking like, why would he even want to, because we don't even talk really.

And, and, and yet I felt like maybe this is what I need to be doing, that maybe this is how we rebuild our relationship. I don't know either. But as soon as you asked for me, it was the same thing. It was like, you need to have him on. And, and I didn't know what it would look like and to be honest, I was nervous and uncomfortable about it and didn't know what we would talk about and how it would go.

And, and so I'm glad that we can do this in person and, and be here talking because I think that that, I think that it's been really good so far and I appreciate it. Anything else you want to add there? Yeah, just the, you know, I would agree with you that we've had a rocky past and, you know, going back to acting on those promptings. I can't let my own pride or my own feelings about you personally get in the way of possibly helping other people.

Uh, because that's really where my heart is, is to help others. And you know, like I said, I, the only person I might help might be myself, and that's okay too. And, but I know that my desires for having this conversation with you and being vulnerable with you and opening up, is for the goal of, of possibly helping other people who might be struggling because I am still struggling. I'm not through it. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. And, I struggle every day and some days are better than others.

But I guess, I guess kind of one of the pet peeves that I have about these types of podcasts is they tend to focus on people that sound like they have it all together and have made it through the other side and are successful. And, you know, because those are the stories that are entertaining that are good.

You know, it's gonna take 10 years for you guys to figure out the end of my story and, I want to give hope to people that are at that rock bottom that because, you know, I'm barely above rock bottom now. And even though I've only traveled a minuscule amount from rock bottom because my rock bottom was so hard that it's still. Miles and miles above it, Jethro D. Jones: Even it's very, it's a very short distance and I have a very long ways to go.

I think that there is hope out there and coming from somebody that is still suffering, that even in suffering there can still be hope. Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I appreciate that. and that is exactly why I want to do this podcast is to help people see that. my frustration is also you hear these stories and it's oh, everything's perfect. And 10 years from now, that's going to be the end of this decade of your story, but not the end of the whole story.

and you will, you will have ups and downs over the next 10 years. It's impossible for anybody to go through 10 years and not have any trials or successes, right? And next year at this time, you could be totally jubilant and stoked and excited about whatever's going on and feel like you're in a great place. And then two years later, you could be at a new rock bottom. And that's the nature of what our lives are like. And what I want to avoid is saying everything's perfect for everybody.

All the time because we know that it's not. But a lot of times these, these stories make it seem like that is the case and we just know that it isn't.

So what are the things that you're doing now, daily, weekly, monthly, however you want to answer it, that are helping you grow closer to Christ? To be honest, I'm not doing a lot. That hasn't been a big focus of mine. When I went through my divorce, the church abandoned and it abandoned me in a time where I needed them the most. And again, I don't blame God for that. I don't blame the gospel for that. There are imperfect people in the church and so I'm currently not active, in going to church.

And I don't live all of the principles that the gospel teaches. But I don't think that that makes me a bad person. And I came to the conclusion of why am I devoting my life to something, to people on this earth that abandoned me at the first sign of trouble? At the first sign of struggle. I've never asked the church for anything. I've never asked the people in the church for anything. And, I was abandoned and I was left alone.

And so I had to rely on myself and rely on my relationship with the Lord, which I didn't do. I rely on my relationship with the Lord. But that's all that I could do. And so I recognized the Lord's blessings. Now that I'm through it, I wasn't as good at recognizing them in the past. So I don't, I'm not currently working on building my relationship with Christ, and maybe that will change in the future. I think if I move away from Utah, I will probably try going back to church.

And I know that I don't need to go back to church, in order to build a relationship with Christ. But I know that the Lord blesses me today in my current state, and I am surviving in my current state. And so, you know, I. I don't feel like now's the right time to rock the boat in that direction. Yeah. Jethro D. Jones: So it's, it's really interesting because in, in the church we put so much emphasis on activity and, and like showing up and doing stuff.

And I think one of the areas where we can certainly improve is on focusing on our individual relationship with Christ and, and making that, making that the thing and, and not, not just the pharisaical parts of going to church every Sunday and. And reading your scriptures. And while I know those things are important and they help me grow closer to Christ, there are a lot of other things we can do to grow closer to Christ, and everybody is, is at their own place.

I read an interesting quote by President Nelson today that said, essentially the eternal truth doesn't change because it is what is what it is, but our relationship and understanding of that truth is what changes. And sometimes we understand it and, and we know exactly what we need to do, and other times we, we don't understand it. And, and that's all right. What's your perspective on that right now?

Well, after, after just speaking that and hearing what you have to say, I am building my relationship with Jesus Christ because I am recognizing his blessings. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. I still do have a testimony and I'm not out murdering people and stealing things and you know, I'm not living the word of wisdom, but that's not everything either. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. you know, even though. I'm not doing everything a hundred percent perfect. The Lord still chooses to bless me.

Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. And, and what I think is so important here is that you're still God's child. You're still his son. He still loves you. And, and that's the important thing that he's still blessing you and, and that you are doing something to build your relationship with him or wanting to, I mean, otherwise you'd be like, forget that, like you've said multiple times, I'm not blaming God. I see the blessings that he gives me. And having gone through what you've gone through where.

Where the church really, the, not the church, but the people in the church really did turn their back on you. Like you said, the gospel didn't turn back on you, but you were not treated well by people and, and you were put in impossible positions. And, and yet God is still finding a way to bless you.

And I believe personally that he understands where each of us are and, and totally gets why we're making the decisions that we're making and is gonna find a way to help us grow closer to him, regardless of, of whatever is going on. Does that, does that make sense? Yeah. And I think that the interesting thing is, is that as we talk through this, I answered the question from a Mormon Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. And not from my own personal perspective.

And I answered the question in a way that I was raised. Yeah. And in the way that I went to church and. Did all of those things. And so, you know, I've, I've often told myself that I'm not building a relationship with Jesus Christ because I didn't do it in the quote unquote conventional way. I didn't do it in the way that they teach you in Sunday school. As a deacon, as a teacher, as a priest, you know?

And although those are all good ways to build your relationship with Jesus Christ, it's not the only way. And that's what I just Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. So let's ask the question again. What are you doing daily, weekly, monthly, whatever to build your relationship with Christ? I am striving to be my best self. I try to be 1% better every single day. Than I was yesterday. I recognize the blessings in my life.

I recognize all the things that I have are as a result of my testimony in Jesus Christ and my belief that I can get, wherever it is that I'm going back again, and I can find that purpose again. Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. that sounds very hopeful to me. Like, you, like what's the best way to say this? I. It is like right now. These, the primary answers are not happening right now, but these other things are happening and, right now where you're at in your life that feels like it's the right thing.

Is that a fair summary of that? Yeah, and I don't need the primary answers right now. I've graduated from the primary answers. I, the primary answers serve their purpose to get me where I'm at today. But they don't serve me anymore because I was innocent in primary. I hadn't gone through trials that I've gone through now. And so those primary answers are for me personally, not gonna do it. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. It's not gonna move the needle. It's only gonna frustrate me.

It's only gonna put me back in that it's gonna put me back as being a child. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. And I'm not a child anymore. I have bigger things to accomplish. I have bigger trials. I have bigger successes. You know, I kind of equate it to, you know, when I was, when I was 12 years old, I had a paper route that I, I think I made like 12 bucks a week or something like that. And I had this, video game steering wheel controller at Best Buy that I wanted to buy, and it was $50.

And I saved and saved and saved. It felt like months it took me to save enough money. And I went and rode my bike down to the store with the money that I had saved and paid an exact change for this controller. And I had this, it was a big box, and I carried it back on my bike and rode all the way back home and set it up and played it for probably two weeks and probably never touched it again. And. The, the way that I relate to that is that back then when I was in primary, $50 was a lot of money.

Today I could sneeze and spend $50. I just filled my truck up for $130 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. you know, and I'll probably have to fill it back up again when I get home, you know? And so, the, the perspective is, is that back then those primary answers were a big deal and they were hard to do and they seemed insurmountable. And it took a lot of work to do those primary answers to build your relationship with Jesus Christ. Now, not that they're, nothing, 50 bucks is still 50 bucks.

I'm not, I'm not gonna step over 50 bucks, but they don't make as big of a difference in my life. As a thousand dollars would. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's a really interesting perspective. And and, and you mentioned earlier like this is what the church teaches, that you do these things and then, you know, you'll get back to Heavenly Father. And that's a very simplified primary way of looking at it, but it takes. So much more.

It takes enduring to the end, however, that long end is, and that end is very long for all of us, and we have to go through a lot of trials to get there. And, and I gained an insight on those primary answers that, that I haven't had before either. So I appreciate you sharing that. And like those primary answers are things that I still do. And yet I know that they are not the only things that bring us closer to Christ. And, and that I think is an important thing to take away.

And, and to find where that, where that works for each one of us. 'cause our relationship with Christ is personal and it is, you know, salvation. It doesn't matter what I. Your parents' testimony is, or what your parents' beliefs are, your salvation is between you and the savior, and, and that's all there is to it. And, yeah. What would you, what would you add to that?

Just that, to kind of bring it back to the analogy to add on what you were saying, you know, those little things do add up and, you know, lots of $50 actions are gonna add up to a thousand dollars. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. You know, and so not to say that, you know, I don't want to belittle those things. But they're just not, I'm looking for bigger purchases, so to speak. And those smaller ones, I've got so much ground to make up that those smaller ones aren't gonna make a big enough difference.

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. Interesting. So I'll be curious over the next year what the bigger purchases are that you're making spiritually. What are the bigger things that you're doing to grow closer Should of Christ and, and what that looks like? Because, Like I see it, I mean, you said that you wanna do this podcast 'cause you got a spiritual prompting, like listening to the spirit is key and not even when it's uncomfortable and not something you necessarily want to do.

Uh, you gotta, you gotta do it. And you know that, that's not a, that's not a, that's not a little $50 thing. Right. Um, that's, that's a big, that's a big thing. And, and I think that's, that's really important to, to note. And I, and I know your question was rhetorical because we don't know the answer of what those thousand dollars things are, but you know, I think that that's one of them.

And just like you said, being able to listen to those promptings and, you know, I don't always know all the answers. Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm. You know, I. Some of the stuff that I've said in this podcast I have never said before. And I definitely know that the Lord is guiding my mind. 'cause I'm not a very eloquent person. I, Jethro D. Jones: but you've been very eloquent and I, that is not me. Jethro D. Jones: This is, this is not the Nathan you get on a daily basis.

I usually can't say more than two words without tripping over my tongue. So, I know that the things that I have said today have, have been from the Lord and the Spirit is guiding me. And you know, I, I know that I do have a relationship with Jesus Christ because of the things that I have said today. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't have been able to. Come up with the analogies and speak of the things, some of these stories that I told I haven't thought of in years.

And so, I think that's just a testament right there that, you know, maybe doing this podcast and listening to this prompting is one of those thousand dollar bets. Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. Well, I, I know that I've been praying, ever since I decided to come down here this week that we'd be able to have a good discussion and that the spirit would be here and that it'd be worthwhile. So I thank you for that. Yeah, I think that was a great place to end.

So, this is the June episode and so this will come out, I'm sorry, may episode. So this'll come out, in May and, be, be part of this. Each may will release it again. And I just wanna say that to everybody that's listening, you know, stick with it and hold Jethro accountable to keep doing this because this is a big commitment and each guest is, has to make a big commitment.

Jethro has to make a big commitment to do this, and, it's important that we hear the end to these stories and, you know, I don't believe podcasts are going anywhere. And so they're here to stay. There's no reason why this can't continue on. And so whatever way that you can support Jethro and support each of the guests to continue to come on and share their story. And for Jethro to continue on to bring these stories to us.

I think it's important that we hear the end of every story and whether it's just one person that you connect with individually, that you follow that all the way to the end. Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I appreciate that and especially, when it's hard. 'cause some years are gonna be really, really tough and we're not gonna want to share what's going on, but I do think that, that we're gonna bless lives from it. So thanks again Nathan. Appreciate it.

Appreciate you wanting to do this and listening to that prompting. You're welcome. Thank you.