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They did not love themselves enough to know their HRV status to not pass it on to me to dreams achieved or still yet unfulfilled from people who have made it. We started a hospital based violence intervention program called the IV project and a stands for interrupting violence and using young adults to those who have been left behind.
But no one talks about the survivors of the gun violence and the numbers rising because the gun violence has risen politically, financially, emotionally, spiritually. This is where we are. This is black land. And one of the things that my father said to me before he passed away is like almost like a prophecy. He said that I would be helping men listen to black land on the I heart radio app Apple podcast or whatever you get your podcast.
A strong argument could be made that the great leaders are the ones who are willing to suffer for what they believe in. And if that's true, Leo Poldo Lopez is certainly a great leader. In 2014, he spearheaded one of the largest protest movements in Venezuelan history against the regime of Nicholas Maduro. After the government issued a warrant for his arrest, Leo Poldo decided to turn himself in.
He then spent more than four years as a political prisoner enduring solitary confinement and other psychological tortures. His story and how he eventually escaped. Well, it sounds like it comes out of a movie with the lessons he learned about how to endure incredible stress are valuable to all of us. This is a bit of optimism. Leo Poldo Lopez, I don't even know how to describe you. You know, your experience.
If we were told it was real, we wouldn't believe it. Let's catch people up. Let's do the brief history. You found yourself in jail and solitary confinement for four years. You are the leader of the opposition party in Venezuela. There's a dictatorship there. You're the mayor of the largest city in the country. Why don't you pick it up from there?
I was mayor of Caracas, central Caracas. In 2008, I was running for higher office and they took me out of the ballot box. They disqualified me for no reasons. They made up a case. I had to reinvent myself again. I don't know before. I decided to start a new movement. It was grassroots, youth oriented, social, active movement that had the thinking of nonviolent action.
In January of 2014, 10 years ago, we decided to call for protest for nonviolent action to the streets in order to open opportunities for change to our democracy in Venezuela. We had a lot of thousands of people came out. We called Maduro for what he was for a dictator being a corrupt, repressive and also with links to narcotics. People came out on the thousands.
We showed his ugly face by repressing and killing and detaining and torturing a lot of people. There was a warrant for my arrest because I was leading this protest. I went into hiding and then I decided among three options that I had, turning myself in, going to exile or staying in hiding.
I decided to turn myself in and I did a thinking on Martin Luther King and his way of expressing what nonviolent action is. He says in a letter from Birmingham prison, he says nonviolent action is about showing the scores of the potrified system in order to get collective action unconsciousness towards change.
I decided to turn myself in and I was detained after I turned myself with a huge crowd around half a million people came out, all dressed in white, all nonviolent, and the 18th of February, 10 years ago, a couple of days. I was sent to a military prison where I spent the next four years, most of the time in solitary confinement. I was sentenced to 14 years of imprisonment and the judge made that ruling, that decision because she accused me of the art of the speech.
I was sentenced to 14 years. I wanted to go back to when you decided to turn yourself in and you knew the charges were trumped up, you knew they would put you in jail. The only thing is how did you prepare for that? You were so inspired by Dr. King, I know that in how you led your movement and in nonviolent action, how did you prepare to be put in jail for an extended period of time and left by yourself?
I was able to prepare because six months before I went to prison, there was a warrant for my arrest and they took it back. That faced me with that real scenario. I decided to learn more about what imprisonment meant. I read different things. I read the experience of Mandela, the experience of Gandhi, the experience of many Venezuelan leaders because the history of Venezuela over the past two centuries has been one of imprisonment, exile, and politics.
So of all of that that I read, one thing was a constant that was having a routine in prison, having a routine. So I was very conscious of kind of that one thing that was present in all of the experiences I read about. So the night I was sent to the third floor of annex B in the military prison of Ramuverde that is at the top of a hill with over 500 military prisoners over 400 military guards around I was a civilian.
It was all very new to me that reality of the military of the dictatorship and that night I remember very well because that night I said, well, what's going to be my routine. And I came up with a very concrete routine that I was previously familiar to, but not in that way.
I decided to do three things every day. I decided that I was going to pray that I was going to exercise my mind, either reading, writing, drawing, trying to play music that I was not good at and exercising doing physical exercise. So I did those three things, so I'm every day with Spartan discipline. And that was the way I was winning every day. So another advice I got from another political prisoner was be conscious of time. I didn't know what, what that really meant.
But what it meant for me at the time was that I was not going to become a prisoner of time and the expectations because I saw how other prisoners always believe the idea that they were going to be free in a week in a month in three months.
And that moment came and they were not really they collapsed. So I decided that I was going to win every day that that was under my control. The only thing I could say is I would go to bed every day, go to sleep, knowing that I did the three things that made me win the day. And that's what I did. And of course, you know, four years is a long time, but that was the core of my every day today. How do you define winning at the end of the day?
Doing these things that I was set out to do. So, you know, if I pray and I did honestly, if I wrote red at that moment, I had books. So I was reading three books for a week, then they took the books away from me. So I'm nothing. So it was, you know, about to exercise the intellect either, you know, counting different parts of the cell, doing some math, trying to play, you know, chat in my mind or with some
Marbles and then exercising. So I learned to exercise in confinement only with my body weight. And I would do, you know, hours of exercise. So at the end of the day, if I did those three things, I said, I won the day. Yeah. Were you a disciplined person before you went in like were you exercising on a regular basis? Did you pray on a regular basis? Are you a pretty disciplined person before you went into? Did you learn discipline as a coping mechanism?
No, I can't say I'm a disciplined person. Yes, I did pray for like I think for me, it was really about an introspection. So praying is really about an introspection. And I learned something very, very powerful that a priest once told me he said, you know, people pray for three reasons. I told you this before. Yeah, I think I repeated it many, many times.
People pray for need. People pray for fear or people pray for gratitude. And he said the most effective one is gratitude. So I had got that idea. So I started practicing that. And it was magical. That's worth repeating. I want to say this again, really slowly, which is the priest told you that people pray for three things.
They pray for need. Please let me win the lottery. Please let me win the game. Please let me get the job. They pray for fear. Please, I hope this doesn't happen. Make this pain end. Right. That kind of thing. Right. And then they pray for gratitude. And what he told you was most people pray for need or fear, but it's gratitude that is the most valuable.
Yeah. And you decided every day not to pray to get out of jail, not to pray to make the pain end, not to pray to see your family. You prayed for gratitude every day. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. That is profound because I think most people would pray for the thing they miss. And I want to know what value it had. Like how to pray for gratitude when you're in a cell in solitary confinement. Like how did what were you grateful for? So I have so many things to be grateful for so many.
You know, I decided that this is what I'm going to do and I'm going to do it very honestly. I started doing kind of a map of my life since the beginning. I am a very lucky person because I met my four grandparents. My parents are incredible people have great siblings. I had a good upbringing. Food was never missing from my plate. I got a good education. I did all the sports that I wanted at a great time when I was a kid.
And I had the opportunity to study abroad at the opportunity to come to the United States study here all the way through grad school. I had the opportunity to live in Venezuela to be mayor and to build a movement. And then, you know, I started also being grateful for small things. So one day, you know, I had a crack in myself.
I was two by two meters very tall ceilings and the window was blocked, but there was a part of the window at the top, like maybe 30 centimeters that you could see a sky. So one day, you know, we'll see a full moon through that crack. I need to be grateful for this as well. And so they also to be grateful when I heard birds.
So you start going to a simple things and you get really strong. And then you're also, you know, praying to be close to your family because you're being grateful that that you recognize them. And also there was for me a very pragmatic thing that I wanted to be very careful of. If I prayed for my freedom every day, I would go into the same trap that I told you before that time can play you.
So if you have expectations on things that you really don't control, and you put your entire well-being into that that you cannot control, you are very vulnerable. And when you're in prison, the one thing that I was very clear since the beginning is that, you know, the battlefield was no longer the streets, the people I loved what I was doing.
I mean, I love politics in the good sense building movements, being with people, organizing leaders, you know, getting people aligned with a common idea, you know, I loved what I was doing. But I knew since the day I went to prison that the battlefield was my head, that that was the one thing that I was in control of. And the one thing I needed to take care of.
So you were in prison for four years and then they put you into house arrest. Why did they take you out of jail and put you in the house? Well, there were protests, very intense protests at the time in Caracas and in Venezuela. So the protest that been going for three months, my wife, Lillian was one of the leaders of those protests in the streets. My movement, Voluntad Popular was leading the protest nationally.
So the expression of Spain, Rodriguez Apatero, who is very close to Maduro, he showed up one night at midnight with the vice president of Venezuela and they said, you know, we want to we want to take you to house arrest. And I said, I don't want to go to house arrest unless you freed the rest of political prisoners.
It was a tense discussion about what was happening in the streets. Of course, I expressed that they were the ones responsible for the violence, for the repression, for the torture, for the imprisonment. So they left, they came back and when they came back, I had the opportunity of getting other prisoners to pass me a phone. So I recorded a message supporting the people to continue to protest and it came out just when the vice president was sitting with me at the military prison.
So they got furious and they sent me to confinement 45 days, complete, complete, you know, in a smaller cell, no contact with anybody. And afterwards they came and then they took me to house arrest as a way of diminishing the pressure of the protest that were taking place. So being at house arrest, I call for protest again and they sent me back to military prison and that was that was a tough, a tough comeback to to to to help because you know, in a way, I went to purgatory.
I met my family, I experienced the warms of my house, you know, with my kids, my kids were small, my kids were four years, my eldest Manuela. And one year, Leo, my son, when I went in, so when I went out, they were, you know, eight and five. Did it work the second time, the routine? You know, the second time I had a shocking land to that new cell that I was thrown into, it was a completely white cell, very, very cold. The night they took me back.
When I was in house arrest, I had to take three pictures every day as you, as if you are a hostage, you know, with a, with a newspaper, yeah, and the guards and taking a picture. So that, that happened three times a day every day. So one day they came at midnight and they said, you need to take another picture. So I opened the door of my house and all of this is in video because I had a, there was a camera recording this.
And they were like eight people around the door. They just pushed me into a car and sent me back to the military prison where I was. When I came in, the old guards that were there that were only dedicated to be the guards in my cell, and they said, welcome back, you know, welcome back. And now, you know, now you will see another dose of the acid and they were completely, you know, you, you, I don't think that everybody knows evil.
You know, I really know I did it before I went to prison. I didn't, I mean, I knew what bad behavior was and what bad people were. You know what resentment was, but evil, evil. I mean, somebody that I call evil somebody that feels good by inflicting despair and pain on somebody else. That that's what I, you know, really visible. And I saw that in prison and these people, you know, they were there, cannot give me the welcome.
So at the beginning, it was tough. So I spent the next day, you know, like three, four, five days, really shocked. But then I took the routine. I could only walk, I could only exercise and pray I had nothing, I had nothing. I mean, there was no mattress. There was nothing in the cell. Just a white, cold cell with no notion of time, no notion, day of life. That is, that is torture. I mean, you know, to remove any sense of time or night and day to remove all contact with human beings.
I mean, solitary confinement is a form of torture. People go crazy in those conditions, you know, even outside of prison when people are isolated, you know, it wreaks havoc on the mind. How did you, how did you, I apologize if it's a silly question, but how did you come out of this healthy? Or maybe you didn't?
Well, I mean, a couple of things. Primarily, you know, my family, really, my family, my wife, it's a wonderful woman. Not only my wife, but she became, you know, my voice. And she was leading the protest. At the same time, she was taking care of the kids. At the same time, she was traveling all over the place. So she met with many, many presidents. She met with Trump. She met with Biden. She met with presidents from all over the region, from Europe, from...
members of parliament. She met with Pope. And at the same time, she was taking care of the kids and being a good mother. How does that keep you sane when you're isolated and have no contact with them? It keeps you sane because, you know, that you have a lifeline, that, you know, there are people out there that love you. And that gives you kind of a reason to be sane.
You know, I'm going to produce you know what I, I thought about this, of course, a lot, but I always thought about it as I am going to take this challenge. I am the owner of my head, you know, for me, it was really not giving space to mental weakness. And I was always on guard, mentally speaking, always on guard. And always, you know, I, for example, I was in a military prison and I am a civilian, but I knew I was in a military prison.
So every day at 6 a.m. they would come and see if I was there. So every day without a watch, just biologically, I would wake up around 530. I had a bucket of water because I didn't have a running water, I had a bucket of water, would wash my, my head, I would have my, the mattress I had in the floor perfectly with a sheet. And I was just there, you know, sitting, never allow them to see me in a position of, of witness, they never allow me to see them in a position of not being in control.
So, and that for me started in my mind. And it was, it was intense, but it was kind of the challenge that I had with me. And this question might be informed from seeing too many movies, but, you know, these are, as you said, these are sadists who at times enjoyed hurting you and seeing you suffer. And here you are defying that and not giving them the satisfaction and being ready at 6 o'clock in the morning, your bed made, you know, sitting there cheerful.
Did they hurt you? Did they beat you to try and one of my, my case was taken to the UN to the Human Rights Commission. And the Human Rights Commission determined that I was a victim of torture. So I was a prisoner of conscious for Amnesty International. Yeah. That for political prisoners is kind of like the Oscar recognition, they do a thorough analysis of every person really. I mean, it's, it's a very low percentage of the political prisoners in the world that have this recognition.
And I believe there are many, many more that deserve it, but it's just a way to so. Yeah, yes, I was a victim of torture. But to tell the truth, I am never assume the position of being a victim. Yeah. Because I think if you assume yourself as a victim, and particularly in an intense experience, as prison, with the people who are your guards are not just guards.
People were politically enemies, and imagine being in solitary confinement in a cell with a camera, and your worst enemy is behind that camera. And anything you do is going to go on live TV in order to just destroy your reputation. Yeah. Yeah. So it was being in solitary confinement, but at the same time, knowing that there was a camera that there were microphones and that I was not alone.
So that was that that made it that much harder. You were working for the movement every day by protecting your reputation, because the minute your reputation faltered, it would hurt the movement. Yeah. And also just knowing that that that's exactly what they wanted, you know, that they want it basically yet to break you. We'll be right back. For as long as I can remember, I've been fascinated by the depths of human potential and the incredible things that humans can do.
So I became a cognitive scientist, studying all the ways in which we think, create, make decisions, and work toward becoming who we want to become. I'm Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast. I'm a cognitive scientist, and I've written 10 books and hundreds of articles on topics such as intelligence, creativity, well-being, narcissism, introversion, and education.
The Psychology Podcast is a place where we investigate the different ways in which we can unlock human potential, and where I get to interview some of the most extraordinary and fascinating people, and we have real conversations about what it means to achieve success, and what it means to be human.
So join me, Scott Barry Kaufman, on the Psychology Podcast, where we investigate the depths of human potential. Listen to the Psychology Podcast on the iHART Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Information Network, and six-time Emmy-nominated news anchor, Vanessa Tyler, welcome you to Black Land. We did not love themselves enough to know their HIV status, to not pass it on to me. We did not love ourselves enough to know their HIV status, to be human.
Listen to Black Land on the iHART Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm here for you. Tell me about school today. Can you go back to your story and how you escaped? Can you recount that in sane story? I escaped from the House arrest. This is April of 2019. The president of the National Assembly became the interim president. Another cycle of protests.
He was from my political party, so we were very aligned and working together. So I started to have contact with different people from the military and the police runs of the dictatorship. At one time I received a self-destructive message by signal with a face of a general and a person there. A couple of days afterwards, this person shows up to my house.
I had different meetings here. I had different contacts with people from the military, from the police and other sectors. I had three meetings with the head of the political police. The military were in charge of all the administrative buildings in the capital of Caracas, one of the important squads of the police of Maduro.
They all came at different moments. I asked all of them, why are you sitting with me? They said, we're sitting here because of sanctions. We either have them and want them lifted or we are fearing them. I have a very personal take on those who say that sanctions don't work because I have seen them. At first hand, how they can inflict behavior and they can be affected.
At the end of April of 2019 to make a long story short, I was released by my captors. At 4.30 a.m. they came to my house, a convoyed military police. I opened the door of my house. I had two electronic ankle bracelets. When out of my house, it was my wife, Tolerian, who was a risk of taking and went with them to a place where we gathered the interim president.
We called for protest and 10-12 thousand people came out. Many more military came out. But we had planned that there was going to be a decision by the Supreme Court at the time that they were going to disqualify Maduro and call for elections. So that was going to produce another cycle of people from the military to the fact and to support the calling for elections.
Unfortunately, that didn't happen. So we got a wave of repression. We started shooting. It was a lot of shots. It was very, very complicated. We went to the place in Caracas where the embassies were. I first went to the Chilean embassy. Then found refuge for many of the people that were with us that day. Since the Chilean embassy had many refugees there, I went to the Spanish embassy. And I stayed at the Spanish embassy for a year and a half.
My wife and my one year old, they were with me for the first month. So I first had to organize the escape of my wife. She escaped by the coast of Venezuela. And after a year and a half at the end of 2020, I made the decision that I was signed for me to leave. It was one of the toughest decisions for me to make. Because I never wanted to live in Venezuela. I even publicly said I will never leave my country and having to take my own words and my own conviction was very tough.
My mother was very sick. She was going through the dialysis. She needed a liver kidney transplant. I had not seen my father for seven years. My parents. I had not seen my kids for two years. And the ambassador of Spain was changed. So all of that came together and I decided to that was the moment to escape. So I decided to call a friend that had always been with me and we've done different extractions in Venezuela, different people.
Because I mean, we've been under heat for many, many years. So I called him and he knew that at some point I was going to call him and just said, hey man, you know, you know, all right. So I knew that he was going to put together a plan. So it was COVID at the time. And he analyzed four ways of living Venezuela through C. It was impossible because the entire coast was closed because of COVID.
The Western border to Colombia was impossible because it was taken by many, many different military police paramilitary groups. The West Coast was complete jungle. So he started to go complete south to the original river. So the day of the escape, I left the embassy with the help of somebody from the embassy. And I was changed to a car. Then we went to a basement and I met my friends. They were my friends.
And I said, hey man, this is a plan. All right. So what's a plan? So we have there was a car of the electricity company. And Venezuela is Venezuela. And I said, hey man, I'm going to pay for it. And he said, hey man, I'll take it to the shop. I'll fix it. I'll bring you things for my company. Okay. So he fixed the car and we had an official car with official license plates and official everything. And then we had a second car.
And it was a car of the electricity company. So he handed us the hats, the t-shirts and I had a credential. And so we trained for 45 minutes. So if you're in a disguise operation, there are two things. This is by craft 101. You need to do two things. You need to be very clear about two questions. Who are you and why are you here? And the technical, the technical description of this is status of being and status of action.
Who are you? And you can go down a rabbit hole in each of those two questions. Name, last name, name of your parents, you know, place of birth, profession, date of birth. Now, how many kids siblings, wife, school, you know, everything. You can go down a rabbit hole. And why are you here? You need to be very clear. You know, who was each one of us within the electricity commission.
So after 45 minutes of training, we started to go. It was COVID. It was very, very low, low traffic. So we went through like 20 checkpoints with no problem because we had the, you know, we had the masks and we had all of the documentation. And at the end, in the board between Venezuela and Colombia, the of the meta river, there was the last last checkpoint. There was nobody there was barbed wire. Nobody was here. We went to the river to the bank of the river.
We were on the boat and all of us are like eight military com with their AKA one of three pointing arrows. Hey, hey, who are you need to come back. We go back and we were gone. And they started frisking us. So who are you? So say names. And one of them, one of my friends and we have planned this. He was the leader. And at all times he was going to take leadership of the communication and the interaction.
He gets taken to interrogation. They strip. Nate him. They see everything and they found some cash that we had precisely for that type of circumstances. He says, so who are you? You know, you're not from the electricity company. You know, you're wire you going to Colombia. So he said, you know what? Yeah, you're right. I am not from the electricity company. And I have a case against me, but it's political. No, no, no, it's not political. It's financial. So he says, I'm going to call the general.
I was waiting and I was playing thick. I was playing COVID. So that was my wrong. I was just coughing and coughing. I had a huge, huge mask and glasses and a hat and I was coughing. And they never actually asked me to take my mask out. And in the end of 2020 vaccine was not around the corner, certainly not for Venezuela. You know, remember the psychosis that everybody had. So they decided never to ask me to take my mask down.
And I was just thinking, you know, this is I'm not going to go back. I told my friend we sat down in the sidewalk. And I said, you know, we had the river like 30 meters away. And I said, I just want to let you know that if they come from us, I'm just going to jump in the river.
Just so you know, man, I'm just going to I'm not going to let them catch me without with our resistors. So my friend inside tells the lieutenant. He says, well, you can call the general, but you know what's going to happen. He's going to stay with all of that cash. And you're going to get none. So he thought about it for like 20 seconds, 30 seconds, said, all right, go.
Me and my friend is putting his pants on his shirt says, let's go. Let's go. Let's go. And we went to to the river. We crossed and on the other side, it was guerrilla infected terrain because the fact and the LN are in that part of Colombia. So we had contacted president Duque and he sent a military or the sky military deployment to receive us because it was you know, I could have come from prison in Venezuela to be in a hostage of the LN terrorist group.
So they we got there. Then I called my wife from there. So I called her. She was in Spain with my kids. And I say, basically told her, I'm out. Where are you? Where are you? No, no, I'm in Colombia. I can't believe it. So I landed a plane to Bogota in Bogota. I met my friend, another friend who organized a contact with the president of Colombia. And the members of the US Embassy were there as well. So we had a conversation and that couple an hour or so after putting a plane to the US.
And then the next day I flew to Madrid with a different ID and just landed in Madrid, COVID, completely deserted, completely deserted. And I just went to my house and saw my family and not in my case for many years, not in my parents for seven years. And it was incredible, but it was tough as well because you know, I never wanted to live my country. And I was going from you know, imprisonment and all of that situation to confinement because of COVID.
So it was it was a tough landing. And then started thinking, well, what do I do now? This is my new reality. And that's what you need to do when you reinvent yourself. It happens to people all the time, right? But the most important thing is to recognize, I need to reinvent myself. This is my circumstance. This is it. Now I'm in exile. I'm not in frontline in Venezuela.
So what do I do? And that's why I started to meet other people who like me were in similar circumstances. And that's how we gathered the idea of putting together the alliance of the world, they really Congress. And you know what's been interesting for me is the work I'm doing now, we're building an alliance of democracy defenders and freedom fighters at a global level.
Yeah. So this is a very unique group of people, a group of people from 56 out of critic regimes, more than 300 over 50% of the people have had at some point, they've been on lovely detail. 30% of the people have had at some point an attempt on their life. 150% have been victims of smear campaigns. So it's really interesting to talk to people who have also gone through this.
Yeah. And under and it's incredible time to talk to people from Africa, from Asia, from Eastern Europe, from the Middle East. That we are completely different, you know, skin color, religion, institutions, sports, you know, we're going to be more different. But when we talk about this, we're talking about the same thing. You know, how do you endure being a political prisoner? How do you keep the movement going? How do you keep faith?
How do you fall and stand up again? Because it's all about standing up. Yeah. This is a fight that I mean, as of now, if you see statistics, it might be an impossible fight. Yeah, because there has been no transitions to democracy in 24 years of the 24th century.
But there are more people wanting to fight for freedom. And I think what's very powerful is to share these ideas, to share this commitment and to know that yes, it's idealistic, but idea is the main thing, the end is what changes the world. We'll be right back. For as long as I can remember, I've been fascinated by the depths of human potential and the incredible things that humans can do.
So I became a cognitive scientist, studying all the ways in which we think, create, make decisions, and work toward becoming who we want to become. I'm Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast. I'm a cognitive scientist, and I've written 10 books and hundreds of articles on topics such as intelligence, creativity, well-being, narcissism, interversion, and education.
The Psychology Podcast is a place where we investigate the different ways in which we can unlock human potential, and where I get to interview some of the most extraordinary and fascinating people. And we have real conversations about what it means to achieve success and what it means to be human. So join me, Scott Barry Kaufman, on the Psychology Podcast, where we investigate the depths of human potential.
Listen to the Psychology Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Information Network, and six-time Emmy-nominated news anchor, Vanessa Tyler, welcome you to Black Land. A podcast about the ground on which the black community stands right now. From stories about salvation. And loss. They did not love themselves enough to know their HRV status, to not pass it on to me. To dreams achieved. Or still yet unfulfilled. From people who have made it.
We started a hospital-based violence intervention program called the Ivy Project, and a stance for interrupting violence and using young adults. To those who have been left behind. But no one talks about the survivors of the gun violence, and the numbers rising because the gun violence has risen. Politically. Financially. Emotionally. Spiritually. This is where we are. This is Black Land. One of the things that my father said to me before he passed away is like a prophecy.
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What is one thing that you've done in your life? A project, anything. It doesn't even matter if it's successful or not. It's something you've done in your life that you absolutely loved being a part of. And if everything that you do in your life from this point on was like that one thing, you'd be the happiest person alive. Well, you know, I love being mayor. I was mayor for eight years. I was elected mayor very young. I was 27 at the time. And for me, it was just a dream job.
Yeah, for many reasons. I was at the heart of Caracas. It was very political at the time. But I had all of these ideas of how to change the city. And I brought, I put together an incredible theme of people. I'm proud of most of them very young, very committed, very well educated in their areas of expertise. And we completely changed the city. We made it the safest municipality in Venezuela. When Venezuela and Caracas was the most dangerous city in the world. We had an incredible police.
I brought, you know, Bill Bratton from New York City. We put together the ComStat system that was developed in New York City. We brought crime rates, you know, completely to the floor. We changed the tax municipal laws. So we did less taxation with incentives for different industries. We made taxation very simple. And of course, we increased the resources we became autonomous. What's one specific thing that you did while you were mayor? That sort of sums up the magic of being the mayor.
You know, I think it's really some stuff. The entire experience is that I would run every day around the municipality. And I would just go into the different areas of the city with no invitation. Not telling anybody how we're going to a school. And I would talk to the teachers and to the students. Or I would talk to the police in the streets. Or I would go to a health care system. And I would go and talk to the people that were sweeping the streets.
So I mean, it was just a way of being hands on on what I was doing with the people that were doing it. And we had this great aura of we are doing an incredible service. We actually summarized what I told the people in the municipality. Our mission is to be the best ally of the citizen. And everybody in this municipality, every department, every institute has to complete that sentence.
So for the police, it was be the best ally of the citizen to safeguard the people and the property of the municipality for the health care people. Be the best ally of the citizen to provide public health and caretaking of the people. And you can go. You know, kind of completing that line to the people who are taking care of the officers and you say all of us are part of the same mission. And we had this kind of this great commitment.
And it was very intense because at the same time, the municipality where I was mayor was the heart of all of the protest. And I was always involved in the protest. So, you know, at times, millions of people who come to protest and some protest lasted for months. And we had our own my dance square or our own taher square. And it was all in my municipality. You know, I think that that that contact with the people summarizes. And I do try to take that, you know, my wife.
Of course, I mean, next time. And I remember my wife a couple of a couple years ago, she said, we were, I think it was in Norway for the hospital freedom forum. And she said, why are you, you know, why are you sending a note to everybody? And I say, you're not, you know, you're not going to be mayor of us. And I said, what I do, you know, I just like to say, I know should be right. I just like to learn from people.
And I just, I mean, I use that's what I, you know, really take away from my experience as mayor. Just being in the streets talking to people and motivating people as well, motivating people. Tell me an early specific happy childhood memory. Something specific that I can relive with you an early specific happy childhood memory. Well, I, I do a lot of horseback. The national sport in Venezuela is, it's called Toro coliados. Is that you basically go, it's an incredible sport. It's a dream sport.
You have a line of like 150 meters. You have four riders. With the horses with helmets. Four minutes and one ball. And then the ball goes out and you need to take the tail of the ball. And you, you let go of the reins and you pull the ball and twist it. And then you get some points. So the first time I did that was a very happy. Was a very happy moment. What the. That he what what what. There, there, there's something about you. Like those two stories, I find really interesting, right?
Because in both cases about being hands on. It's about getting dirty being out there, taking the risk, putting yourself out there. You know, the proverbial grab the bull by the horns. In your case, it's grab the bull by the tail. But there's something to be said for not sitting at the desk. Not playing jigsaw puzzles at home. Not playing video games. But to get out on the horse and ride out and take the risks to be out there.
Because the thrill and the learning is more intense and more extreme and more valuable than anything you can learn. Reading about it at home or watch or being a spectator. Yeah, you know, you can't be a spectator mayor and most mayors are spectators. To be truly a mayor, you have to be involved. And to be truly a player, you have to be involved. You have to grab the bull by the tail.
And in your case, you not only live your life by being involved and getting, putting yourself out there, but your inspiration for others to get involved. You know, be the best ally of the city by dot, dot, dot. You're inviting people to get on the horse and grab a bull. And if you lived in a democracy, you would be the same human being.
You would be out there doing the difficult things, meeting the people and instilling inspiring us to gather and still inspiring us to be the greatest allies of the city. And it just so happens that skill set worked really well when we needed to fight against the dictatorship. Yeah, you know, I think that you know where you are. That's who you are. That's who you are. Yeah. No, and you like you show up on the Frickin horse and grab a bull. I mean, like that sums you up so frickin perfectly.
It's unbelievable. I don't know why I thought of this because I mean, just came with a question, but that's the first thing. And it's who you like, I mean, it sums you up perfectly. Everything we've been talking about today, the balls that you have, you know, to do the things that you do. And even your escape plan, I mean, your escape story is insane. You're sitting in the back of this car pretending you have COVID and coffee. I mean, just like the whole thing is madness, but that's who you are.
There's an insanity to you, but it's, it's for good. Yeah, well, we always joke about it, you know, in our movements, and you need to be a little bit crazy to five freedom. And I don't think it's crazy. And I think idealism, you know, is that? I mean, you cannot be a boring idealist, you know, I mean, and if you take your idealism to the extreme, you have to act, right?
I mean, if you have to act because I mean, idealism is about really, you know, putting your action where you're, where your heart, where your thoughts are. So you need to act, you need to do something about it. And I also think that you need to do it with the right attitude. You know, I think it's very, very important always to be capable of putting a smile to adversity.
You're saying, all right, man, here we go again, you know, I just, just really, really being capable of putting a smile to adversity. I think that that is important for teams to be cohesive, to be motivated in moments of great difficulty. That'll give it, you know, the good vibe to the five. Leopoldo, I could talk to you forever. I will tell you one thing. You inspire me and I will follow you anywhere. Thank you, my friend. Thank you. Thank you Simon.
You're awesome. Thank you so, so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. See you soon, my friend. I'll see you soon. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you'd like to listen to podcasts. And if you'd like even more optimism, check out my website, SimonCenic.com for classes, videos, and more. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other. A bit of optimism is a production of the optimism company.
It's produced and edited by David J. and Greg Reuter-Gene, and Henrietta Conrad is our executive producer. All state wants to remind fans that mayhem is everywhere, like when the tailgate party shows up at your house after the big win. Everything's great until the hot plate gets too hot for the tablecloth. Now your kitchen's up in smoke. And if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, the cost of fixed this could sideline your savings.
So switch to all states, save money and get protected from mayhem like this. Not available in every state based on coverage selected, subject to terms, conditions, and availability, savings vary. Hi, I'm John Hope Bryant, host of Money in Wealth on the Black Effect Podcast Network. I'm an entrepreneur and a businessman. Now, every Thursday, my newest venture is educating you on how to win financially. Even better, I'm going to teach it in a way that, well, you can understand.
I'm going to meet you where you are and take you where you need to be. We all might have different starting points and in-gos. But as long as we have the desire to acquire financial freedom, it can be done. Listen to Money in Wealth with John Hope Bryant every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. I heart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin.
This past season on my podcast, Here's the Thing. I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people, like jazz-basist Christian McBride. Jazz is based on improvisation, but there's very much a form to it. You have a conversation based on that melody and those chord changes. So it's kind of like giving someone a topic and say, okay, talk about this.
Listen to the new season of Here's the Thing on the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.