Ready To Ditch Your Husband? Listen To This First!

Hi guys, it's I Do Part two. I'm back your celebrity mentor Jenniferfessler and Vatentime's day is around the corner. And some of you may hate your husband's guts. If that's the case, this is the episode for you. We are bringing an incredible divorce attorney. Her name is Marilyn Chinitz and she's been working in the field for over thirty five years. You may have seen her on the Today Show on twenty twenty. She's a celebrity divorce attorney.

Okay, so gray divorce really unfortunate. I married forty years and when your life really kind of takes hold and it's really sad when it comes to an ending, like the rug comes out and a lot of particularly women, were not expecting it. So divorce doesn't really happen boom all at once. It kind of dies a death over a period of time and what contributes to that lack of interest. You no longer communicate. You are living parallel lives, and it doesn't just happen at once. It really does

I think it could be an edit. A lot mean by that.

If a marriage is dead and you too are miserable, and even though you haven't planned for it, it does offer you an opportunity to kind of reconnect with yourself. There are so many things that happen that I see. I do a luncheon every year for sixty women. I've been doing it literally for probably about twenty years. And they get there at twelve, they leave at five, and last year I did it at a wonderful restaurant downtown. And the purpose of that their former clients, their current clients,

In two you have a career in TV.

So to me, I think there's nothing better than that recreating. So I'm seventy now next month, and I'm thinking about not retiring because I'm not interested in doing that. But how do I recreate myself? How do I do often different things?

Well, first and most importantly, wow, seventy. On another episode, you will tell us how one does that, because seventy looks unbelievable on you, lady, that is crazy. Thank you, You're very welcome. Tell yeah, it shows.

Both professionals too adorable grandchildren. Wow.

Okay, Well, we're going to have to bring you back so you can help us get there.

Ready to come.

So I think Horse is sad for a lot of reasons because.

You really think that.

The retirement years of the time that you're going to enjoy the wealth. Number One you created, right, You've built such a significant marital estate or a marital estate doesn't have to be significant. And you expected that you were perhaps going to retire, you were going to travel, you were going to buy something or explore things, and all of a sudden you find that you're alone and hard.

That's hard.

But I also think marriage takes a lot of work, and we do it in our everyday lives. We work hard. I work hard as a lawyer. You work hard in everything that you do. It does take a lot of work, and you've got to That's that time. You can't wake up all of a sudden say, oh boy, you know, all these years passed and now I'm miserable.

If you were miserable.

Long, then you've got to You've got to take hold of what's going on in term.

I love how you're talking about that, that reinvention. It's true. I I you know my shoe company. I started a shoe company at fifty. I got on Housewives at fifty three and never felt more excited or happier about a career. Right, I'm fifty seven.

Now, yay, you're gorgeous. That's you're gorgeous.

Well, thank you, thank you.

Just keep doing this all day.

Yes, exactly. Mutual admiration society. Well, but the thing is for me, well, I don't know it was. I'm married, and I had that support when I started to reinvent myself, you know, emotional, mental, and financial. But women, i think, correct me if I'm wrong, probably have a harder time.

They are for a lot of reasons. Some of them have been very, very controlling marriages and they feel like the oxygen has been taken out of them and they don't want to live like that anymore. And those are women who have lived a very good life, and there's a lot of money there, but they're always you know, doesn't always have to be that there's a lot of money.

Huffington Post was after that. Yeah, wow, I didn't know that. That's incredible, Diane.

Von Furstenberg, Right, she was broke at age thirty and then built this empire.

Wow.

So you know, there are really sad stories where people really don't have anything. I give those women women in particular, tremendous credit. And the service that I have to bring to my clients is to give them that empowerment. Hence that luncheon.

Yeah, that's I love that. I would love to attend that. So in terms of the finances though, what how do you guide women financially? I know it's a big question, not how do you guide them, but like what are the mistakes do you tell them to look out for financially when they're preparing for divorce.

I like to do programs for women before they get divorced, and it's usually younger women who come. You know, I may have done their pre nups and then we have these really good lunch and learn and you want to be in the know. A lot of women stay totally remove from the finances. The biggest mistake you can make, right, you want to be in the know. You're asked to sign a joint tax return.

Look at the tax return, make a copy of it.

You'll sign it, maybe I'm sure, but you want to look at it afterwards. Hey, I didn't know. What's that taxable interest? What's that deduction? You've you've got a good group of professionals around you. You can have your own account and you can have your own financial person. And so you want to look at your credit card statements? What do I do?

How much so I spend every month? What am I spending on? What are you spending on?

You want to look at what assets do we have. We have this magnificent home in the Hamptons. We paid twenty million for it. But the real key question is how much is my mortgage? Is my mortgage fifteen million? So I only have equity of five million. You don't want to wake up years later and my god, that's like a time bomb, that's like, oh my god.

What happened?

Right?

Don't put yourself in that position. You need to be in the know all along. And why shouldn't you Why shouldn't you be the partner that this person married. And I don't want to focus on women, but very often it is the woman sure, she's busy. If she's not working, she is working, she's raising a family.

It's me, listen, I am guilty of it. I not as much anymore, and I'm on the meetings we have with our finance guide. But it's very easy for me to sort of bury my head in the hand because numbers and taxes and you know, pensions and all of that is very uninteresting to me. And shame on me because it's my life.

We all do it.

Yeah, yeah, it's hard for you.

I have a CD coming.

My husband will call me. We have a CD. Let's do now, what do you want to do? Well, he's learned to ask me, what do you want to do?

Oh? I love that.

But you have to be aware of things, so that to me is one of the important things.

Right.

I like the idea of befriending, you know, a financial person, even in a turney, I am a good friend. I like the idea of empowering yourself, of course with knowledge, right, so you don't wake up one day and that the blanket is taken off and there you are.

I've had lots of friends that have gone through that. And also I'm curious about if you have a prenup, and I have many friends that also have a prenup. How do you handle that so that you are taking care of so, in other words, do you update it every few years?

This is a good question, that's a really good question.

Most people never look at that pre nup after its signed, and that is such a mistake. So I'll give you an example. I have a client. At the time that she signed her pre nup, the husband was worth one hundred million under the terms of the prenup. Very unfair. She got ten million as a distributed payment. By the time they're getting divorced, now he's worth seven hundred million. Oh my god, she's adding ten million. But that almost

Wow.

So now we have a situation where she's got a very unfair prena. He knows it. So we're negotiating, but not to where she.

Needs to be.

That what a cautionary tale. Not I mean ten million dollars. A lot of most people would think that's.

Well right, and right, but a judge, and so if you go into court and you say your honor, it's unconscionable.

This judge is probably doesn't have anyone.

Appreciated in value because partly of her efforts, and the court's going to say, well, how about is she getting well under the agreement ten million?

But that's unconscionable, of course, But he's a crime a river.

Crime a river two hundred and I have four kids and my wife manages very well.

Right, it's one realistic.

So now you're five, ten, twenty years into the marriage, I would think that it's if the marriage is getting rocky, it's harder to convince your partner to renegotiate.

But don't wait that long.

So I just did a post not they're happily married, and she was smart. She pulled up the prenup and she said, look, this isn't fair. Yeah, seven properties, not one is.

In my name.

And he said, you know what, You're absolutely right. So now renegotiated everything. She's set now for ten lives.

Wow, that's what you have to do. You have to be in the know, you have to be knowledgeable, and you have to care enough about yourself to make that inquiry.

Such good advice. I hope our listeners are taking notes. So I think it's that's it's great advice. How often, though, do you see couples reconcile just out of curiosity, because like during the divorce process, Because that's what happened to me. I was separated, Yeah, for like a year and a half, and I had a boyfriend, he had a girlfriend. We

And I think that's a great story.

I really thank you. I mean I used to I used to say, well, I do say that, like I used to cheat on my boyfriend and meet my husband right right like like and it was so ridiculous.

Does it happen often?

Do you find that, you know.

What doesn't happen?

It doesn't is very rarely.

Yeah, and unfortunately because so much damage is done and there's a lack of communication. So you loved your husband, he loved you. Yeah, just a circumstance answers presented itself that drove that way. You know, it was unfortunate.

Yeah, you know what I think, Marylyn, it was a little it was a little fortunate our marriage changed after that separation.

Well, of course it's both.

Yeah, yeah, And you know sometimes listen forty years of marriage, it's not like, oh my god, it's wonderful, right, It's really rocky moments.

Sure, And there are moments where you're screaming and yelling.

There are moments where you're you know, you're living apart from each other, whether it's a month or a week or whatever. You've got to recalibrate, You've got to restart.

Yeah, do you think that that when I you say that you have to live apart? You of course have part of the sleep divorce, where couples stop sleeping in I guess the same room. Is that a good thing? I think that's like a hop, skip jump away from them.

I don't think it's sad at all.

Yeah.

And you know, I live in Connecticut, but I could no longer do the commute back and forth. And I said to my husband, I love you, our kids not out of the house, but I can't do this anymore. Eleven o'clock at night, I'm getting off the train with my suitcase, my briefcase, not for me. So I a little studio in the city and I walk to work, he comes in, we go to the theater. That separation is great.

I agree.

I love that because we don't see them separate rooms. My husband is constantly traveling. I travel a lot. When he's he doesn't. He goes into the office. But even when he's home, he's in his home office. We're not on top of each other. And I think that that has been so hosting.

Yeah, and you know what it is, you feel secure in your marriage. If you feel secure in your marriage, you don't get all upset. And having that space, in my view, should be encouraged. My husband would take trips with his friends. He's born in Sweden. They do these wonderful ski trips.

They used to do with a group of friends. That's great.

I bike with a group of judges and matrimonial lawyers. We have gone to Italy, We've gone to Czech Republic, Germany, Austria.

Wow week.

And you want your partner to feel stimulated, that you want them to be happy for you, that you're happy and that you and I think that's you know, that's important.

I think that well, that sort of answers that the question I have. You know, living in what is it called living apart together l A T couples or something? You live in different states like some celebrities do that. Yeah, you don't think that, you think that's a bit that's a.

Little although I am because I'm in New York, he's in Connecticut.

But that's.

You don't want to have too much distance, you know, you want to have just enough that you are independent, and you can. If you're independent in your marriage but dependent on each other's love, you're going to have a good marriage.

I mean, yeah, yeah, I feel like that. I mean, I I The truth is I don't make the kind of money that my husband makes. The money I'm bringing in it's good, especially for someone who started a career later in life, but it doesn't pay our mortgages.

It gives you independence, yes, exactly, and I'm just really appreciates and it does.

Yes, he does. It's true. Tell me something that you think people assume about divorce, that's that's not true.

That it's the ending that I'm never going to find somebody. This is a miserable way for me to.

End my life. And I think that is the biggest bunch of crap.

Yeah.

I love that.

It really doesn't have to be right.

No, And I say, it's not an ending, it's an edit, and you've got to learn. People have to learn how to pivot. You know, we're very blessed. I say thank you God every day I'm telling the children are helping my grandchildren.

I work, I make money. Every day is a blessing.

And if you have that attitude, then you also say, Okay, I'm a big believer in having a notebook. I write down things that I've got to get done, and I encourage clients to do that because they get lost in their depression. Write take your book, write down five things you want to get done this week, and the satisfaction of crossing off the things that you accomplished are great. Yeah.

Step yeah, well another step yeah.

In terms of writing things down and being prepared, what advice do you give women before they head into your office? Right, what would you say that they need to get together? You know, have at their fingertips before sitting down with you.

So when I said be in the know, yeah, you need to get all the financial information you can get your hands on. One of the most revealing things, you know, nobody's going to go through years of taxi turns or years to credit cards. Did you and your husband get a mortgage recently? Did you refinance a mortgage recently? Did

But it's a great.

Way to find out information, you know, nicely innocently. Also, go with your husband to a trust in the state attorney. You're entitled to know, how am I going to be protected? God forbid you die? How are the children and I going to be protected? And in that forum, it's not threatening, it's not a divorce. It's sharing of information. So there are different ways that you could get information without triggering an awareness that.

Right, right, Yeah, that's it, And I would think also it once you get into the attorney's office, listen, the clock is running, and maybe if you're prepped, if you know, the attorney says we need this, we need this, I have it, not that I.

Always you know when a client walks in and says, look, this is what my husband does. He's a hedge fund manager. Here are the assets, list them out in a balance sheet. It's great because I have a baseline that we can start from. But there are a lot of clients who come in and say, I have no idea, right, I don't even have my own bank account, my own bank account. What I have is access to a credit card. I can spend two hundred thousand a month. Yeah wow, but

I know I have a c date, but this I know. We have a retirement accounts, I know the value of my house.

I found out that the mortgagees is why because every time the mail comes in, I open it, I screenshot it. Nobody questions me because why it's mail that comes to both of us. Yeah. And you can do all of these things not because you're preparing for divorce, but because you are a partner entitled.

To that information.

Yeah right, I mean that makes sense if you have a business, you were running a business, and would you not open the mail and see what's going on, to see if the bills were paid? To see what credit line is, to see what new customers we had that would be unimaginable. You are running a business, that's right. You're running a household, you're running children, and you're running a business. Right.

You know it is that you're going to make sure that you're knowledgeable about.

Yeah, that makes sense. You know you mentioned screenshotting. I'm just thinking about, like, we're in such a digital age right now, and we put so much of our lives onto social media. Yeah, and how much? What do you think?

What do you think?

Is there anything not smart to share on social media?

A lot?

A lot? So social media can be very deceptive, right. I have Instagram. You have Instagram. I keep it to the people that I know, you know, friends and close people. But if you're public, you want to be careful about what you're putting out there. If you're getting divorced, you want to be even more careful.

So I have had clients who post everything.

They post travel with their girlfriends, Their girlfriends post gifts that they received, and the spouse gets access to that. So when a spouse says, hey, I didn't go anywhere and travel, I was traveling for business. I don't have a girlfriend, all of a sudden, you have examples and evidence.

Right, that is a lie, right, And so you have to be you have to be careful about what you put out there.

Right.

For people sometimes who put out and they're sharers, right, it's not to put their show offs. They're just sharers. So they put out information about their travels and the beautiful hotels and the.

Gifts that they receive.

And then it's putting out way too much information because not everybody is happy for you, and you want to share with people who are happy with you. So in terms of a divorce litigation, there is a lot of evidence in that social media that's so interesting and not that not only in Instagram, Facebook, but we can get access to your emails, we can get access to your digital So if I serve a subpoena and I want electronic discovery, and I ask for a cored order to

Let's say you're getting ready for divorce and can you go and get all of your stuff wiped out? Can you take your computer the Apple Store?

Well, you know what, a good forensic account knows that you did that?

Well did they?

So they can say they could image your computer.

And say it got wiped out? You did that intentionally? Now, okay, so you did. What's the court going to infirm that there.

Was something wrong? But very hard to prove what was wrong?

Right, right, So you will suggest doing that.

I'm not suggesting anything.

I'm just saying that it can't that it can't be done.

But as I just said, you.

Could retrieve like you think you wiped it out, but if it lives on the server, it can be retrieved it. So that's a very technical question for good forensic investigators.

Yeah, yes, we know elect discovery.

We use those who are in the know. I had a case many years ago as a terrible custody case that represented the father and the mother had the children put a flask drive into the father's computer. He had a girlfriend and the kids innocently were on his computer plane and they came across these photographs.

Oh my god, it's compromising.

They shared it when they went home. Daddy has a girlfriend. We saw, well what pictures did you see? And innocently said, and she taught them how.

To use the Lass drive.

Next week after you know, their their access, they put the last drive and all the pictures came down. Oh my god.

And so we served it.

We found out, we served a subpoena to retrieve her computer. We saw that she had, you know, had them download everything. That created really significant problems. A. It's criminal events. B. She could have lost the custody of her children.

Wow.

Wow, So you've got to be careful about what you do. You've if you're getting a divorce, you do it in a dignified way. And if you have a good lawyer, they know exactly what to do. They what allows them to do. They're aggressive, they can go after the information.

Yeah, you can't stop it.

If I have a question, if someone I think, is it different in every state? Does infidelity count to a judge? If you're getting divorced in.

New York, it doesn't. You can screw six elephants and the court couldn't get.

No.

You know, it's no fault.

The only time they care is something is so egregious, like there was a case where the husband thought the wife was having an affair, and the whole case was about this affair. But he lost control. He took dem bells and he beat her nearly to death, her daughter God. And in that case, you know, fault was so egregious that the court awarded him zero and he wanted money for a criminal attorney because he was charged, and he didn't get a penny.

So in New York, no fault. Most of the states now are no fault, and for good reason.

Yeah, yeah, country, it's a doubt how we're going to protect you financially?

How are we going to protect right? Why is it?

You know, divorce is hard, right, obviously we're talking about this. There's a lot to it. Why do you think that second marriages I've heard that the divorce rate is even higher? Is that? First of all? Is that true? And why do you think that is?

I think there's sometimes some complications with a second marriage. Number one, you have blended families, and you have a lot of conflict in those blended families.

Right, that reads a.

Lot of animosity, a lot of stress, and that's difficult. You also have financial issues because you want to protect your children from your first marriage, and that may not sit well with your second wife. Right.

On the other hand, you may.

Have gotten out of a really bad marriage and now you really want to enjoy your life. So I've seen second marriages work brilliantly, beautifully because they really appreciate the person. And they may not have appreciated the spouse because they was stressed with starting a business and children. But they're at a different place now, so it really varies.

It depends. Yeah.

I mean, you said you've been married over forty years Maryland.

This year is forty.

So this year I'm turning seventy, celebrating forty years of marriage. My daughter's turning thirty five. My son is getting married in Italy. Wow, so.

Well all good?

Yes, yes, yeah, what do you think? I mean, I know this is the question is maybe a little cliche, but I want to know what you what do you advise, What do you talk to your kids about in terms of how to keep a marriage strong.

You know, it's really interesting. I never talked to him about it ever. So my daughter got married, it's it's seven years with two kids. She didn't want a prena, which.

Was interesting for me.

I think they grew up in a home and an environment that was that taught them.

It was nothing I had to say.

They saw it like what a blessing, and that was the great And you know, it's interesting my parents were Holocaust survivors and we grew up with the most amazing, loving, dedicated parents, and I learned so much from them. How my mother really dedicated her life to her kids. And even though I worked, that was, that was and is my first and most important priority.

Yeah.

I see that with my two sisters who have raised their families and their children. And I think it's generational. You know, when when you set a good example, you learn right better than anyone telling you.

Yeah, would you have preferred that your daughter had a prenup? So? Which I think it's especially like on our first marriage. It's such a delicate topic, right, but so I don't know, let's not make it specific to your daughter. Do you suggest that women get a prenup? Is this something that you would suggest going in I have.

I happen to dislike prenups for a whole host of reason because they can't be very unfair.

The example of it gave you right.

They are important in second marriages because you have accumulated a lot of wealth, yeah, that your partner did not earn right, and you may want to protect that for your children. And so you can be as generous as you want during the marriage, but if things go south in a second marriage, those assets deserve.

To be protected to have to be there.

Also, on the other hand, prenups are good wife sometimes. And I'll segue because Kelly gave us permission.

Let's first tell our listeners. So by the way, you actually worked with our very own Kelly Bensimone on the disillusion of her engagement.

Yes, And so what I was going to say is pre nups can be really good because you can find out financial information that you didn't know. So if you're with someone and every weekend you go out to this big, beautiful house and Bridge Hampton, he picks you up in a Ferrari, you.

Drive out there.

You've gone to the south of France, You've gone.

To Sardinia for vacation.

You have this incredible lifestyle and you think he's got a lot of money. But then all of a sudden, you see that balance sheet when you're doing a pre nap and you go, wait a minute, I thought you own that house you're renting it. I thought that cart was right. You've got a lease on it. You're getting financial information. And Kelly, who was so gorgeous and so full of life and devoted mother the best, built a lot in her life. Yes, and she had found a man that she wanted to marry.

And the first thing we said.

He got a lawyer and I said, I need his statement of network. Well, okay, well we'll get back to you. And then a week passed and I said I need a statement.

Of net worth. I'm drafting.

We meant, I have to have that information. Make a long story short. He refused to provide any financial information.

Red flag red red red.

So I said to her, what are you doing?

Yeah, if someone is not being forthcoming now before you're married, sure, I can guarantee you you're never going to have the transparency during the marriage.

But more importantly, if.

He's not prepared to show you what he has, what he's earning.

Then he's looking to you to support you.

Yeah.

Wow, she should not work for you. And she's smart and it was hard and she said, oh my god, Marylyn, absolutely you're right.

Yeah, good And that was a smart move because.

You look at red flags. You look at what's out there that I'm not getting the information on. If I'm not getting the information on when we're in love, I'm certainly not going to get it when we're married. Yeah. Wow.

So I just think this is invaluable, invaluable this. I hope that a lot of our listeners catch this particular episode. And it was fun and it was fun, and I hope I don't know if you've ever written a book.

Well, you know what, it's.

Funny because I am writing two books. I don't a proposal for one, and I'm doing a children's book. My son and I it came to us while we were driving in the car together. He's thirty years old, and we started talking about something and boom, the light went off and we said, let's let's do a children's book. Wow.

But the other book, it's basically shut Up and Settled.

I love that. That's a great title.

Yeah.

So I'm I'm i gotta I got to get up at three in the morning.

I'm you know, it's like I got to find that little time.

But I'll get there.

Well, I mean, I'm not planning on getting divorced, but I will buy what I will buy it.

My wonderful client just came out with a fabulous book called Strangers, Bell Burden. It's It's made the New York Times bestseller list and she wrote a book about her divorce. And I'm gonna tootor worn because it's.

As we should read.

Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, there's a.

Lot of information.

But I think, you know, you want to talk to people that will share sharing. A lot of women share, and that's a great thing. And I like those women because the women you can spart your advice, and I think that's important.

I do too.

I find that I I friendships now as I've gotten older, I'm a little I'm you know, I'm a little pickier, but I definitely, but I definitely am drawn to women that share because I'm such a sharer and I find that that kind of vulnerability is how I connect. And I'm not getting that back.

It's then you're you're you're very nice.

But you're at a distance.

Yep, that's exactly right.

Well, the person really is open and appreciates you and vice versa.

Yes, thank you, and I agree.

Do I get I want my people who are around me.

To be my special people?

Yes, me too.

Me too.

Those friendships that are really not friendships, I put them in a different category friendly.

We're friendly. Yeah, they're just a yeah yeah. Well, Marilyn, thank you so much.

For coming, not talking to you. Great to meet you, Thank you.

Please be welcome.

Bye.

So are you trying to bounce back in your chapter two after divorce? Do you need some help? Call us or email us. All the infos in the show notes, follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast I Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcasts where falling in love is the main objective.