Some listeners may find this content disturbing.
This episode discusses suicide. Please proceed with caution.
Hey there, everybody, welcome to I Do Part two. It's your hosts, your sometimes hosts. I guess we rotate a lot here, Amy Robock and TJ. Holmes, And we are so excited because we have our next two guests in person with us at the iHeart Studios. We're going to be talking divorce, marriage, reality TV and of course, well I hate to mention it, but we have to go there. At least one question on Rudy Pebble's from the Secret Lives of Mormon. Why it is the me and Brett
who need no introduction? How are we all today?
Good? Were you? Thanks for having us?
Why did y'all immediately laugh? I'm glad you said it. I would be worried somebody y'all might throw water, but I'm the only one in the room who wasn't. But it's good to see you guys in person. My goodness, And again, everybody that comes on this podcast means they didn't get it right the first time around. Both of you all second marriage for both of you. Let me ask this, what did the show do for your relationship being on momon wise can I said, what impact did it have on you?
We were just talking about last night.
I mean it's strengthened us, like you can't believe going too far away.
Yeah, just strengthened us.
It put us in a lot of situations that you don't typically anticipate being Obviously, you know you're in a reality TV show or it's reality TV, but there are a lot of things that are you know, they kind of contrive that puts you in challenging situations and so but yeah, we've we've grown so much closer and just we've had to kind of up the game in terms of just communicating because when you're in the again, back to reality TV, the lines of reality can become so blurred,
and so really making sure that you communicate clearly becomes totally crucial increasingly, so I think, yeah.
No, agreed.
We literally were just having a conversation last night after seeing Whitney on Broadway, and we were just talking about the whole experience. You know, it's all been so fast paced and crazy. We're like, we're sitting here in New
York watching Whitney on Broadway. They started with the dance like this is wild and like a swinging scandal, and we're just sitting there talking about where we were to where we are and our fertility struggles and just everything and finding that silver lining in how much stronger our relationship is today than it was before all of this, And I think that's rare. And we were like, what
is that? What's the component? And we said communicating, communicating and being able to speak freely to each other and genuinely seeking to understand one another. And I think it's like really like we kind of pat ourselves on the
back because I'm like, that's so. I mean, we've been this isn't our first rodeo, as we said before, but we've learned the lessons along the way, and we genuinely put in the work and at the end of the day, like, relationships are not about it being perfect all the time. It's about how you handle those struggles and how you communicate and work through them. So I'm just I'm proud of us for the way that we have weathered so many different storms grow together.
Have we ever gotten that answer before that? Yeah, Reality TV was good for my relationship.
In fact, that was actually very surprisingly makes sense. I was not expecting it, but is it? Would you say? Because and look, we have watched some of the show a couple of the different seasons, but it's jumped out to us that even when you're not on camera and you're not being shown, you're constantly being talked about, I mean to me, and even Brett comes out of everyone's
mouths at least in every scene. I was like, this is remarkable to be talked about, Yeah, that much on a show that you kind of pulled back from a little bit. I'm curious, is it kind of an us versus them mentality where you will you all felt like maybe you were being attacked together, so it kind of strengthened you all to hold down your own personal relationship while other people were attacking it.
Yeah, a little bit.
I also just think that it uncovered so many wounds for both of us that and we were implementing so many incredible tools on the side, right, like therapy and so many different modalities that helped us navigate it. And as those things were uncovered, I feel like we both are pretty introspective and you know, self aware, and we both would be like, Okay, what is this kind of stirring up in us.
And what is this really at the root.
And so as we would have things come up in wounds and triggers and trauma, we would kind of turn like either to our therapists or to each other and be like, Okay, I know that your intentions are good, I know your heart is good. So what's really coming up? And we would face that head on, Like genuinely when I say that, we both put in the freaking work day in and day out, and I think, yes, I think to answer your question, I think it did be kind of, you know, come come to a point where
it was like, this is us together. We are not fighting each other, it's us against the problem. And I honestly think that's how we've gotten through.
Yeah.
The other thing is that it's it's funny because you you learn to kind of understand that the things that people are talking about, for the most part, that are controversial or or that might be make you uncomfortable or make you feel bad about yourself, all of those things, for the most part, are fictional things, if that makes sense, Like the things that they're hating about, you know, to me,
I mean fictional things. I mean that there it's almost like she's become a fictional villain, and so it's like learning how to separate, you know, myself from that. I think has been just learning how to separate myself from what is real and what is not, just kind of learning that most of most of the things that are controversial are fictional.
In reality TV, yeah, or that people aren't getting the full picture right, like and people will say that, you see the sound minds online that are like, guys, this is a show. Remember, like these are people, There's nuances, there's context that's missing, and everyone knows that. It's like we want to protect this thing. And it's like, at the end of the day, it's entertainment, it's a show, and you're not getting the entire full picture.
Is the drama real?
Sure?
Are the storylines real?
Yeah, for the most part, But there's context missing, there's things missing, and you're not getting the full picture of who I am day in and day out, who he is, how our relationship is. And so I think you know, the sound minds understand that, and so you know then you're able to just take a step back and not take it as personally.
But the sound mind seems huge and far.
Yes, I wish more sound minds would speak up because people will come up and they're like, there's more people behind you than you know, And I'm like, where are.
Those They can't be heard louder by the craziest. But you you talk about separating though, bread, but you're still a dude who loves his wife and there are people saying things about your wife that are wrong and awful. How are you maybe, even if you don't say something on social media, say something how internally even do you keep your heart rate from going up?
Have you been able to be.
In a process? Yeah, I mean it's been Yeah, it's been a learning process. But it goes back to just separating what's real from what's not. And like literally when they're talking about her, when I when I read the things that they say, it's like I just have to say that is a completely fictional person they're talking about. Otherwise, I mean, I just want to light the world on fire.
That his achilles heel, honestly, Like when when I get brought up, I mean it's the same way for me too, Like I get so fired up when I see them talking about him, and I'm like, if you knew the kind of man this man is, and dad and husband and just friend and general, like I get emotionally just charged. I'm like, don't talk about him that way. And then I read about me and it's like this page and I'm like.
I know my truth. I know my truth. I'm curious though, because I actually we talked about this in another episode for me personally in my life, and we've told you guys when we walked in. We were divorced twice, so we know what it's like to go through relationship breakups and heartache and in front of the public. But some of the hardest breakups for me have been with female friends. It's like relationship ending situations have been the most traumatizing
for me with my other girlfriends. How have you navigated that?
Oh?
Shed about it every night?
Not about these friendships necessarily, but it definitely does like trigger old friendships. So yeah, it can feel harder than a breakup. And I don't know, I lost, you know, my best friend at the same time that I lost my ex husband, and I was kind of mourning both relationships. But I definitely was like dreaming about my ex best friend every single night, thinking about that, stewing over it far more.
And maybe it's because my ex husband was.
Still in my life and we were co parenting, and like the other friend, it was just like gone. I don't know, but that felt way harder.
Like are you talking about Jesse. No, no, no, this is a.
Past relationship, like a past dear dear childhood friend. No. No, I mean it's yeah, you get close. You get close really quickly in this environment and you're working day in and day out together and so you build that friendship, but there's a level to it that's almost like foe because it's so quick. It's almost like when someone love bombs you and it's like oh wait, and then you take a step back and you're like, oh, that wasn't real.
And I'm not saying that the friendships weren't real, but it's like when you take a step back like I have, and you look at it, it's like I barely knew that person, Like I really went all in on someone and there's a lot of the lot there that's like
problematic that I don't want in my life. And you know, I know she feels the same, so I just yeah, for me, I think taking a step back was the healthiest thing for me because I was able to really look at everything for what it was, and I'm like, yeah, there's a lot of red flags there that I was kind of missing because we were in force into this environment together. So I mean, yeah, I mean friendship breakups are hard. I can speak to that, but I'm.
Navigating it well.
And like, really, anytime I hear any one from the cast say anything, I'm just like, it really holds no weight to me. I'm like, hmm, you're playing I don't know, You're you're playing a part and you're doing it well.
But yeah, I don't get that. I don't can I ask do you consider yourselves genuine friends with the other cast members? Or do you consider them like co workers? Sometimes you have good days and we got to show up together and we got to perform. Seriously, I asked, are they genuine friends?
Uh? Both that I have genuine friendships in the group, and then there's some that I have genuinely tried to build friendships with that you know, it's like a relationship. Back to what I was saying earlier that in a relationship, in a working relationship where you're genuinely trying to build upon it, there has to be you seeking to understand that person. You have to you know, understand the nuances in the context, and you have to forgive, like people
are gonna mess up. And and I feel like I extended that in multiple areas to people, and then I would like do something or say something and it was like boom, you're done, cut off whatever. And for me, it's just it wasn't reciprocated in a few of the relationships. And then you have the other relationships where you both have done each other dirty and you're walking this path and it's complicated and you give each other grace and those are my people.
And so those are the people that I am friends.
With and genuinely have relationships outside of filming. And then you know, I think most everyone in the cast would say that majority of the friendships are business at this point.
Yeah, that makes a lot.
At least they're honest though.
Yeah.
I mean in reality TV it's kind of unique too, because it's like when there's something like you have a grudge against somebody, it's almost like they want to hang on to that because they understand, especially the further you get into, you know, being on a reality TV show, they want to have that kind of like as fodder. You know, or to like back their story or to
make their story more compelling. So they it's like they hang on to these grudges where like that's like for me, I try to give them a little bit of grace because constantly I'm thinking, people cannot be.
This ridiculous because it makes them relevant.
Totally makes them relevant. And with her, it's like it keeps them away from everybody's so scared to be the villain, you know, and so it's like, especially with me, they want to hang on to, you know, exaggerated things and fictional things.
Basically, if she's the villain, then they're not there exactly. And you know, in life and in reality TV and in life in general, people want that. They want a bad guy, they want a good guy, and then they hold onto those and you can't tell them anything different because they need that to be the way it is because that makes them feel safe and okay, because they can sit there and judge you absolutely.
Have you been on a reality TV show? Have you been.
Version of it?
Version of it?
It was our reality that was on display for everyone else's entertainment.
Yes, that's everybody is hard. So kudos to you guys.
So you all have been married for five years now, five years, and you've blended your families, which is no easy task. How have they handled all of that with cameras rolling, Because it's hard enough without cameras rolling. I can't imagine doing it in that environment.
Yeah.
How the kids handling? Yeah, you know, they haven't really been around for much of it.
We've kind of we kind of decided at the beginning that we weren't going to involve the kids, and so it's been I think probably more seamless than it would have been had we, you know, had we chose to.
What about the hell your kids are older and they're closer, I think to they're in college, correct, in high school? Yeah, yeah, I mean they read things, they see things. How does that impact them and you all forming your own family.
They've been I mean they've been it's like to be it's been like water off. They're back.
They're both you know, they grew up athletes and kind of you know, thicker skin basically, and my family has kind of been, you know, in the entertainment business for a long time, and so they they understand kind of the nature of the entertainment business and they also you know, learn to distinguish between fiction and reality.
And so they've been fine.
They're supportive, and so.
They'll see things and they'll they'll send it to me, yeah, and just they'll be like this person or I just you know, like they're they're supportive and very very sweet. And then my youngest is eight years old, and she doesn't know. She just started saying, like we'll go through a drive through and she'll rolle on her window and be like, my mom's on Hulu. That's pretty Yeah, but it's just been work to them for the longest time, like, oh, we have work, Like we just call it what it is.
It's work, you know, and they kind of view it as that. And then also there's the perk side of it, where you know, we're going to Disneyland VIP and they're like wait what, and it's like, well, it's because what we do and they're like.
Okay, yeah, that's cool.
That's cool work, you know, like that's worth it. Or we're taking fun trips or meeting cool people and having these cool opportunities. And you know, I'm calling my daughter being like, Whitney's here on the billboard. You know, she's been here to see me on the billboard, and you know those moments where they're like, oh WHOA, Like you're doing something really cool, which is fun for them to see, you know, and kind of carve a different path than
I grew up with. I mean, he grew up in this world, so for him, I think it's you know, kind of normal. Would you say, like it's the norm. And for me, I'm like, I grew up so humble and just came from basically nothing, and so for me, it's fun to show my daughter a different lifestyle and give her the experiences. That's why I do it.
You mentioned you've been in this world your family has, and you said you your family knows how to separate fact from fiction. Right the bs that's out there, I wanted to ask about the fiction. What is the biggest
piece of fiction out there about Ule's relationship. It sounds like you all keep up with what's going on on social media and what people are saying, But what is the thing out there that people think if you could just snap your finger and correct the record, if you will, what is the thing that people think about you all that you really really wish they could get right?
I mean I think two pieces.
Go ahead, you know, you go, I don't want to cut you off by I've gone.
A couple of got back of you. Yeah, yeah, thank you.
For that question.
Oh, I have two pieces that are just quick. I'll just rattle off.
One I didn't cheat on Brett and two we did not know each other when I was nine years old.
Wow. Yeah, thank you.
Oh. Yes, that's one of the first things you see when you google.
It's ridiculous. Yeah.
Yeah, I met Brett when I was twenty one years old at our good family friend's funeral.
Where did that start? What does stuff like that come from?
Well, okay, I it's I'm kind of to blame on that because it was the satire time of TikTok where people are just going after our age gap relationship and they're like Grandpa d and so then what do you do?
You just play into it?
So then I, you know, I played into it as.
Though you languaged a couple of things that were a little they could have been confessed.
Exactly, Yes, which I honestly it doesn't bother me. I feel like it's bothered you more than me, which rightfully, so like.
What people have spun? What people that makes sense?
Yes? What was posted didn't, but then the comments that came from it, then he was like, Okay, now it's getting creepy.
Age where I met her just keeps getting younger, and.
He and then he was my babysitter, and then he was like best friends with my parents, and so then it just the thing just keeps getting spun and spun, and so I take full responsibility for starting that whole thing.
So it's my job to clear it up.
We met when I was a beyond legal adults, and we both were married to different people. Like we it was not at all what people are saying on the internet.
So yeah, there's this, Yeah, there's this sixteen year age gap, right, yes, yeah, I.
Think where I got a little confusing too, was one of my best friends was her best friend's dad, and he was it's kind of convoluted, but my sister in law is his niece, and so you know, we live in We were talking about.
Trying to get my head around that.
So so yeah, a good friend of mine that was twenty years older than me, he was like my uncle, okay, and she was friends with her with his daughter, and it's.
So wild to think about because like that's so close, right, and there's so many connections, but I genuinely didn't. I never met Brett until that funeral.
And I had always been the funeral of her best friend's dad, who.
Yeah yeah, And I had heard of him obviously, like he was like this all star provo boy, you know, and I had heard of him. I had heard of his family obviously, and his sister was married to Larry King and you.
Know, all these things.
So it was like the Ingemans were known, but we never met each other. So that is a huge thing. I'm like, I know for like, thank you for asking that.
Actually I appreciate it.
Understand why you had that one ready to go.
Did you have something you wanted to clear up?
Well, I was just gonna say the fidelity thing is just it's so funny because you won't find a couple that's more committed to each other and doesn't even have a thought of being with anybody else. So it's just that's been such a dumb thing to even have to talk about.
Should I even ask where that one came from from?
Vander pum Villa, Yeah.
That wasn't you as well. I'm just making sure you didn't start though, and like you did the nine year old.
No, no, I didn't start that one.
No, that was.
We won't mention his name, but yes, we get it.
There's an asterisk there. Yes, I'm curious too because you all were in other relationships. You said, when you first met and you just were friendly, How did it go from that to then you all being in a romantic relationship?
Well, do you want to talk about the Bachelor?
Yeah, so it's my favorite story.
So I know I would run into Demi and her husband at the time at the gym from time to time, and basically out of nowhere, Long story short, I get an email from the Bachelorette and they said that you have been nominated anonymously to be on the show.
But we had just.
Seen him at the gym and we were like, what's going on? Second marriage didn't work out? Like you're such a catch. What's happening? Like you need to go on the Bachelor.
I had a second marriage. It didn't work so see it was about six months I got it.
Yeah, sorry not to not to cut you off. My husband, my ex husband, and I had told him like, what's going on, Like you're such catch, so handsome, you need to go on the Bachelor. He was like absolutely not. No, So we go home, we not nominate or we nominate him.
That's a good story anonymous that night, okay, yeah, so.
Then he gets a call oh wow literally the next day.
Yeah, they were desperate to cast somebody to think that was like age appropriate for Claire.
Claire Crawley.
Yes, she was like forty I think, and I was forty two at the time, and uh so, yeah, I went on the Bachelorette and I was there for about a week.
Then COVID hit. They sent us home and there was a break but in the in the.
Yeah, so but when you when you go, when you go to the bachelotte you have to go dark on social media. Anyway, I come home, I go back on social media. She notices that I am no longer filming and then what so.
Then I he like posted something of his sons and I was like, wait, what's going on? I thought you were filming, Like what how are you posting? And he was like, oh, we actually all got sent home and I was like, oh, that's crazy. And then I was like, by the way, I'm getting divorced, and he was like, I'm so sorry, Like I mean, we told no one. I told him before I told my family, and so he was like, it's crazy if you need a shoulder to cry on.
I didn't actually say that.
Probably that is life is weird. Now, I didn't know you were on that season, so I didn't.
Actually go and film. Okay, it was the week leading up to it. COVID hits, they send us home, and then I think they filmed like four months later, and.
You were already in a relationship at that point.
Yes, well you would have gone back had I not met her, Maybe probably not.
But still to think that you could have been on your way to another love journey, if you will. Yeah, and COVID.
Got you here.
That is weird how stuff works out. We noticed this life all the time. Who know that any little thing would have happened differently.
COVID saved me.
That's just a weird thing to say or to think about. But that is congratulations. I love that story, by the way.
That's very very cool. In fact, I would say COVID played a role in our relationship as well. So it's funny all things that are suddenly you know that seem overwhelming and tragic and certainly were changed the course of so many people's lives, and it made a lot of people realize that they didn't want to be married, or a lot.
We know where statistics are because I think it had to have gone. It seems like it went through the room.
With their Yeah, with their relationship.
You were forced to face your relationship. There was no escaping one hundred No, that's a real thing.
I mean everyone was in such close quarters. It's like, we were.
Talking about that again last night, but what's the divorce right now? Something percent, it's fifty plus percent. But then we were thinking about the people that we know that are married, that had been married for a long time, and a lot of them are not happy.
We knew where you were going with and so it's like.
What percentage of married couples are actually happy.
We've had that exact same conversation because so many people and this is the perfect podcast to have this conversation, because so many people sit in judgment of other people who get divorced and remarried, and they sit in their marriages and think, see, we're great because we're still married.
On the other side of the house, and they don't speak.
You're right, and yeah, haven't had sex in a year? And yes, and actually hate each other. Yeah, but they're still married. Yeah. Success a successful I know.
It just it comes down to the definition of success for you.
I guess, Oh my god, Okay, when do we want to get the fruity pebbles thing out of the way.
I think right now, let's say let's do it. Let's go are okay tears.
I'm let's step out for this.
So Jesse Jesse makes this this video on social media exposing what you what she says is the truth about frudy pebbles, and then you all went on social media the next day and had your own play on what she said without actually saying anything. You just showed something. How do you?
How are you?
Do you care about it at all? Is it funny to you? Like? What was the actual impact of any of that?
Yeah? I mean originally when it got brought up on the show, I didn't want to talk about it. I just thought, like, this is personal, this is between us. I shared this with the women in confidence, and I shouldn't have even done that. You know, we've spoken about that since and I'm like, that was I mean a betrayal to Brett because that was something that happened between us. If he went and told his buddies. I'd be like,
what are you doing? You know, And so I regretted that later that I brought that up to even the women. And so yeah, obviously it was something that we never planned to have come out. Is it the end of the world?
No?
But then, like you said, our steps, like my step son's his kids who are adults, are on social media, they're seeing this. And then our youngest son is in high school and it's like, we know how brutal high school people can be, and like how many months have pass and we're at a baseball game the other day and they're like, let's.
Go, fruity pebbles. Boy, come on, let's go, you know.
And I mean, again, is it the end of the world? No, But like it also did affect our youngest son to some degree, and that bothers me, and that bothers him, and I know it like really upset him.
I mean, people do a lot of dumb things when they're not dumb things, because I mean people experiment all the time in the bedroom and when we we were three sheets to the wind, you know, and if if and it happened one time, you know, and and if you know, if everybody had to talk about something they've done when they're three sheets to the wind or whatever, I mean, what.
Are we talking about?
So but leave it to Jesse of course to bring something like that up. So it's just I mean, yeah, anyway, that's all I'll say about that.
Why did you all decide? It seems because I we discussed this, as said, hey babe, I don't because of what we've actually experienced. We didn't find it funny. People make jokes, but this is whatever it is to you all knock yourselves out. Fine, but why did you all respond to her in the way you did? You kind of tongue in cheek with that video, and then I saw that, I said, oh, I guess they're cool talking about it.
Yeah. Yeah, it was more so that I It was one of those things where it's like, well, it's out there, so what are you going to do about it? I I think what we were upset about was the timing of everything and why she responded. You know, she obviously was upset at you know, comments that were made or you know, it's just the it's the extent that she went to to try to uncover something, to either cover up her own stuff or to show that she was upset at me. And I think that's what it was.
That we were just like, okay, you took it too far, and so then we're like, what are we going to do?
Fuel the fire with her or just bring.
The levity and own it and like make it light as lighthearted as possible.
No, sounds like there was a real relationship issue in there that a lot of couples deal with. You betrayed a trust, right, how far do you go? What do you all think about the idea? How much is it okay to tell your girlfriends about what happens at the house with him? And how much do you are we allowed to as in a couple? How much should you say? It sounds how long did it take you all to work through that? Because that is I mean, I think she knew pretty immediately.
In fact, you called me right after you had the conversation with the girls about it and you were like, Babe, I'm so sorry, and you know and so and I mean I think we had a we had a brief argument about it, really, but it wasn't it wasn't I knew that she meant well. I sometimes she overshares when and it was early on in.
Yeah, and so it was just.
Sex, which is funny. I feel like we talk about it more than men because they're like, we're good, we're chilling, like I had sex with my wife this week, We're good, whereas women are.
Like, well, like is this normal?
And do you do this with your husband? And like we're more insecure about it, I feel, and so we have more open conversations. That's how we learn like men, I always say men learn through born and having sex, and women learn through having conversations about sex with their girlfriends. Like it's just a different world, you know, but sorry,
keep going. I think we did have a quick argument about it, and I recognized that was like I'm so sorry, you know, like I know you're not going to your bodies telling them like, oh, I guess what my wife did?
You know?
And so I was like I understand that, you know, if that comes out, that's embarrassing for you.
And you know, I think I also kind of figured that, you know, when she's sharing it, it would be one thing if she was sharing something like that with a group of girls that were like not on a reality TV show.
You know, But we weren't at the time, Yeah, Oh you weren't.
Okay, they were just we were mom talk at the time.
Yeah, it was right before.
Yeah, but it wasn't like a long standing girlfriend, right, And so I think that it was more so like who it was and the fact that that was something that we experimented with once and it was you know, it was a little flippant on my end.
So we had that conversation and then obviously.
Like moving forward, I've like vowed to be better about that. But I to go back to your question, I think it really is just a personal thing like between you two, like what your boundary is with that, and sometimes you don't know that you have that boundary until it's crossed and then you're like, wait, hold on, I don't like that we're talking about that.
Things that we do in the bedroom that's like sacred to me.
And that was one of those moments where I was like, I've always been kind of flippant with that, and I've always been super open and just like oh yeah we try this. Whoa, you know, I'm just a little bit more open, like he said, And I realized in that moment that he's more private about that, and so that was a moment where I was like, Okay, that's our boundary, you know.
So yeah, And there's nothing more painful, I don't think than you sharing something with someone where you feel like you're being vulnerable and then it's used again. That's a terrible feeling, especially among friends.
Girls.
That's what girls do, and they know how to cut deep, they know how to get you. They know how vulnerable that is and how that feels. And it's a choice. It's a choice to share it. I'm curious, would you all say you learned more lessons about where you are in your relationship because you seem like you guys are awesome from your previous relationships and lessons learned in those or lessons learned doing this all in front of the cameras with reality show and folks watching and weighing it.
I think both. But the environment that we've been in, the pressure cooker, you know, environment that it is, I would say that that has definitely challenged us the most and actually like living the life because it's one thing to learn lessons and then it's another thing to apply it.
And the application of it has been huge because we're getting these things thrown at us like fiery darts constantly, and then it's like, how we're going to manage this, how we're going to handle this, How are we going to weather this together?
So I would say living it together for sure.
And then you know, always life experience, always, you know, has the opportunity to teach you things and show you the things that need to be healed. And we both individually do therapy and we both do therapy together. And I think that's huge because there's things that will come up in a relationship and we're like, hold on, well, that's not coming from here. This is a deeper wound. This is a mother wound, this is a father wound,
this is a past relationship wound. And so we're able to like kind of separate that and then be there for each other. So I would say a combination of everything, But yeah, I think living it together and having to face that together for sure.
Yeah, she mentioned you know, doing like self work. I think for me, the biggest thing again going back to just separating reality from fiction and all the darts that are thrown at you. One of the challenges that I used to have was allowing for like an intrusive thought to percolate and you give meaning to the thought, and then all of a sudden, if you give it enough time and meaning, all of a sudden that thought is true.
So for on the on the you know, personal self work side, I've done a lot of ketamine sort of doing some emdr that allows you to just kind of pull yourself back and look at the situation for what it actually is. And that's been I think probably the biggest key for me in our relationship is just doing my own personal work in that way.
How much work needed to be done? We say this oftentimes that you got to you're sometimes we're not ready to be a good partner to somebody because we're messed up. How prepared were you all when you got together? Was there a lot of more work that still need to be done?
I barely had any work.
Just kidat you think you think you know the older person in the in the you know a couple would have the least amount of work to do.
I for sure had the most amount of work to do.
I just don't think you have the tools. Like I grew up with a mom that was very like she leaned more holistic and like she would read us the book Feelings Buried Alive and like I learned very quickly that like your body will show you kind of what's happening deep down, and so I had a lot of those tools you know already. And then I'm just like super passionate about mental health. I've struggled with it my whole life and you know, come from a long line
of mental health. And so for me, it's almost a passion because I want to understand myself. I want to understand you know, my family. I want to be able to help I want to be able to do better for my kids. And so it became a quick passion for me of like a modality like Okay, now this is calling to me in this and I do energy work and then I would do you know, all these different things, and then that led me to Kenemine and then you know, all the different.
Modalities that are out there.
I was just you know, one by one, I was just like going through this journey. And so for me it became like this passion project, if you will, where it was just like how can I become better? How can I understand myself better? How can I love myself truly? How can I you know, you know, how can I change? You know? You know, break the patterns and break the
generational trauma that I've seen in my family. And for Brett, I think it was more so the normal average person that's like, yeah, that's bothered me, but I've never really thought about it. And so I think we really have been such a good mirror for each other because I, you know, I bring the passion with that and he's like, yeah, I don't know, it's bothered me and it's obviously showing up in ways that bother me.
And I'm like, this isn't.
Working and he's like, well, yeah, it's bothered me, but I don't really know what's going on. And I'm like, well, let's dive deeper.
Yeah.
So I feel like we've really and he same for him, like he'll bring things out of me that trigger me and then I realize, I'm like, it's not you, it's like a wound that I have. So we really compliment each other really well in that sense.
No, I was laughing because we go through that yeah, yeah, to where I, yes, this normally bothers me. When I saw it starting to impact her, like that's not fair to you that I'm going through this, And that's when I started doing the work. As you say, it's funny to sit here with other couples have been through some shit.
Yeah yeah, Kenny me like, I've heard so much about it, but I've never even gone in that direction. But you all seem to be huge proponents of it.
I am, and I want to be careful because when I was doing it, I was shouting for the rooftops. I'm like, everyone needs Kennymede and they're like, no, not everyone needs Ken of me.
It's not a good fit for everyone.
And also like you need to be careful obviously for obvious reasons. So I'm very careful to say, like, if it's calling to you, explore it. It saved my life, literally, I was I had extreme suicidal ideation and depression anxiety ocd ADHD literally you name it. Like I was battling that and I had planned to kill myself and I was done, ready to go, starting to write the notes
and my ex husband, I'm going to get emotional. But my ex husband called you out of the blue and was just like check on to me, like is she okay? And like behind my back, they both came together and he was like, she needs Ketam And I didn't even.
Know what it was like, I his father in law.
His father in law administers it.
He's an integrated medicine doctor and so he had the license to do it, and she was He just randomly was like she needs kenemine and he was like, I don't know what that is, but let's suggest it. And the next day I was in there and it literally saved my life and like changed my mind on like wanting to end my life and here today because of that. And I have such a tender spot in my heart for him. Every time I talk about my ex husband, I just get emotional because like what man, you know,
like I'm the one that left the marriage. I crossed his world and like the care that he still has for me and for Brett like so greatly.
He's an incredible Yeah. Man, he's one of my best friends.
Yeah, no, they really are like best friends. So it's such a beautiful thing. But anyway, Ketemine, talking about Kedemy, let's go back to.
Subject for you.
I know, he starts crying.
How are you today? I know you stepped away from the show. Yeah, because of the number it was doing on you mentally, Guys, how are you today?
I'm great? No, I really am so good. It was such a compliment.
I was talking to Taylor a couple of nights ago and we were just talking about everything, and she was like to me, I just have to stop and tell you, like, I am so proud of you, Like you have gone through it, and you just sound so grounded and just like you have your head on straight, you sound so hopeful, and I'm just so proud of the way that you've weathered it. And he says that to me all the time, but you know, we're together all the time, We're in
it together. It was refreshing to hear someone just hearing me talk about opportunities coming up and you know the way I'm handling the negativity and the scrutiny and have them just recognize, you know, my efforts. And that was really kind of her to say and also validated that, like, hey, you're you are good, You're okay, you put in the freaking work, Like pat yourself on the back. You're doing better than you think. So I really appreciated hearing that for sure, and.
I think I'm doing well.
And you know, it's not linear. Every day has a different struggle and challenge, and you know, brings new emotions, and some days like it gets me down and I'll see an interview and I'm like, damn, like I was there for that person, Like how can they sit there and talk about me that way? And damn, how can they? How can I be so misunderstood? And that hurts, you know, and I'm human and you know things do affect me. But overall, I really do feel like I am handling it as best as I can.
You know, absolutely, amen.
Now, it's so impressive just to know that background, to know what you've been through, and then to know that you were on this show, that show being on a real would crush almost anybody. Just I don't know how
mentally anyone handles that. Because we had just a glimpse of that type of scrutiny and pressure and it was it almost buried us a lot, like truthfully, I'm so sorry, truthfully, no, but we and I just we have a little bit of an idea of what you've been through and certainly just so impressed with the two people who are here in this room with us now because to think about how vilified you all have been, it's pretty awesome to meet you face to face and actually see who you really are.
Thankk you.
I appreciate it.
It's nice for some of that heat to go towards you all and not us.
Okay.
No, Taylor said that to me the other day.
She was like, I've got some things coming for me, so hopefully it'll take the heat off of you. I'm like, I don't want that either, but maybe it will be kind of nice for a change to not have it be on us. I don't want it on you, but anyone else from the group want it.
Takes Okay, all the last things about the actual show, new season? Have you all gone just dropped?
Right?
Yeah?
Season four? Have you all gone through? Seen it all yet?
Now?
Will you be watching? No? None of it?
No, not a second?
Okay, right, see, But that's growth because usually I do watch it and then I'm just like turmoil, sick, can't sleep, and I'm like, that's not what happened.
Aren't you sprinkled throughout the season? Aren't you? Don't you show up the time or two here or there? I don't know, Okay, I had to be honest, she had the first We knew you were coming in at the first episode on and I keep hearing your name and I run into the room. I said, where is she? No, they're just talking about.
They're talking about her.
I have heard that a lot that like I'm not there, but you're the topic of conversation.
You're there.
I wish you saved for that, like every time you mentioned my name, send me a check.
So you will be.
Back on the show at some point I another season, officially in some capacity. Do we know that yet?
I haven't decided.
I've stepped away as of now, but we'll see.
I don't know. I have other things that are in the works that I'm really excited about. And if I feel that excitement towards the show ever again, I'll reconsider.
But not right now. You don't feel that.
I don't What would you wanted to do it the show again? If she wanted to, of course, but if you wanted independently you as just in your own moments as it.
Sits right now in the environment. No, No, a couple of variables change then maybe, But if she wants to, I'd still support her.
But yeah, I have heard that the that the dads on the show are getting raked over the colls, like the men are getting obliterated, which I'm not surprised that a lot of them deserve it. But like I, I just don't think it's an environment for the men like that. I don't think they're wanting the men to look good. You know.
Yeah, it's like landmine for men.
Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about that.
Off.
We noticed the men as well. We have conversations, Yes.
We certainly did. And I just wanted to end with this because I know you all and you were open about it, and we're rooting for you. But I know you all are really wanting to have children for yourselves. You want to have you want to expand your rude. I know you just got a puppy. I saw, Yes, he looks like our little guy wrote. He's multipoo. I don't know what can you guys have.
She's a cockapoo.
A cockapoo. You're very close. Yes, it's like a It could be like a cousin. Well, they probably are.
Because the poodle aspect.
Yeah, related in someone.
Yeah, No, that's so good. How is that going? And what are your what any any I know so many people struggle with his, so many women. I appreciate knowing that they're not alone and hearing how you all are doing. How how are you. Where are you on that journey?
Yeah? So no luck so far, unfortunately. But we're still going down the path of trying to figure out what we've gotten more answers, Like we're further than or the furthest we've ever been on figuring out what it is. Now it's finding how to achieve fixing that issue because we've gone down the path of medication and with my mental health, like medication, like I get one or two bad nights of sleep and I am just like my mental health and chemically I just get so thrown off.
I'm just so sensitive. And a lot of that is due to I mean that's women in general for the most part, but is.
Or men.
Into everything the loud sounds okay to everything. Yeah, hey we o CD all of that.
Yeah, yeah, no, I totally get that.
That's a real thing.
And then I also have endometriosis, and the more I'm learning about that and like, oh, it is so empowering because for the longest time, I'm like, I'm just a leo.
I'm just a fiery leo, and I'm just are you a leo?
Oh my gosh, this is hilarious.
What are you okay? Okay, so we got water fire.
Okay, so this is making sense everything I said.
You're like, get Leo's just get each other.
It's so funny. I know my parents are both Leo's friends, Leo's I'm surrounded by Leo's.
Yeah, same birthday as her buddy. Nobody understands.
We're so many understood.
We can't say enough. Really, you guys have been open and honest. Really it's talking about everything You've seem like you all just open books to a certain degree, I guess, but some things you need to keep private. As we learned it. I've guy, it's I we meet a lot of reality stars. You were here, Taylor was here, Macy was here, and who else? Lay Law was here, and
you owe every single one of you. I don't know behind the scenes, but every single one of you came in here and were as delightful and pleasant and wonderful and real and authentic and all these things. And I'm like, wait, these are the same women from the show and that they're talking about online. All I'm saying is people just don't get it, and most won't get it because they won't sit down and meet you guys. I'm saying I saw that stuff. I read all this soft, I saw
a lot of the show. It's just a pleasure to sit down and go, wow, they're they're good folks.
Thank you.
They're just good folks, and we get that.
Don't google us.
We never, So it's really good to get the real.
Version of you two.
Thank you.
No, we did not do.
How long have you guys been together, by the way, three years?
Yeah? Yeah, engaged for how many months? Now?
It's in September, yes, Wednesday day.
We don't have the wedding date yet. We are leaving here. Crazy enough, we are walking about five blocks that way to pick up her ring. It just got sized, so we're talking. She's actually in here without her.
I'm like sitting on my hands. But it's funny. I loved it so much and it was just a little too big, and but I didn't want to lose it for any period of time to get it sized. So I waited six months to get it sized because I just wasn't ready to be away from it four a week. So I love that I'll be reunited with the ring in in just a few minutes.
You wait. Congratulations, that's amazing.
Really, thank you guys. So much good luck on everything. We will certainly see you all down the road.
Catch The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives season four, now streaming on Hulu. All right, everybody, If you need some advice on how to navigate life in chapter two or three or four, you can call us or email us. All the info is in the show notes. Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast I Do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.