Misspelling with Tory Spelling and iHeartRadio.
Podcast Emily mean, yes, are you a masochist?
Ooh good question.
I'm obviously a masochist because I continuously put myself in painful, painful situations over and over, so like I must be emotionally.
I'm asking you because this is like hitting me on a personal level as well. Do you think that is masochism? Emotional or like family trauma that's not dealt with this?
The second one, you're right, Wow, you're Are you a little psychic?
I think, yeah? Are you?
Yeah, you're very I'm very cures sat out the book you were showing on Instagram. Oh there you go? Yeah, okay, yeah I am. Yes, I'm trying to deal with that because I actually think my lack of control over it is fucking with my life. But yes, I think it is the trauma and the pain being familiar more than it. Maybe that's why I'm zero massacre because I feel like people who are massacrests like maybe they don't didn't have that much pain, and so like pain is exciting and
they need to create it For me. I'm like, I don't I have a well of pain just waiting at any given moment, I don't need to like be whatever, hit at whatever, whatever it.
Is, right, No, no, no, I agree, I don't. I feel like on from my perspective, for me, it's not as obvious from the outside. Maybe emotional trauma. I don't know if it goes back to just the world I was born into more than just like actual from my family, being born in Hollywood and just like that everything focused so hyper focused since I was born, and not having that lack of control of how to even go back and fix that. But you started this business so young, you have that as well.
Yeah, no, idea, I wasn't born.
The trauma of being born in I imagine is like a whole world that I do not envy as much as people are assholes about it and think it's enviable. I imagine it is more not than it is. Even if there's like perks, I feel like those perks come at a cost.
But yes, I.
Started young, and I didn't think I started young. I started at eighteen, and I thought I was like, Wow, it's porty too late. Now I'm like, what a.
Little baby like you should have waited, you should have protected yourself longer. I thought you started younger. Why did I think you started like twelve thirteen.
Everybody thinks, Okay, I did a weird Italian singing contest and that exists on the internet, so people are like, oh, and then I did. I like started modeling at fifteen, and I did one weird indie movie then, and I wanted to like performing our high school. But I didn't like get an agent and start auditioning as an actor until.
I was eighteen. Okay, still a baby, tiny baby. I didn't realize at the time, but yes.
My oldest child is eighteen and my second oldest is a daughter, so I'm like hyper focused on her because I'm like, oh my god, me at eighteen it was just such a different world. But it's like they're such babies, and I never thought of it that way. Like when we were working so young, it was like just.
You saw you were an adult, and you know that feeling when you're eighteen amongst adults and you really think you're tricking everyone into thinking you're there.
Eight You're like that, yeah, you want so badly to fit in.
Yeah, oh my god, I excelted. Yeah, you don't realize that. It's it's when.
You're eighteen it's transparent that you're even if you're like the smartest, why is this eighteen year old You simply have not experienced enough life to know certain things.
And I feel like you give in to so much more to want to have that acceptance. At least that was my experience just and I mean you've talked a lot about this obviously, and such an advocate for women and on set, but you know, being eighteen and the boys were all joking around, I wanted to be fitting so bad and I was like, you know, and they weren't doing anything wrong, but on a set primarily filled with men back then in the nineties, it was like I just thought my inn.
Was always like what was I wearing? How did I look?
Was my you know? Oh everyone said my like my waist was so tiny, like oh yay, why didn't they look at my boobs today? Like it was just like over and over. You're so conditioned to think like that's the acceptance and it wasn't. I'm just going back to our eighteen year old self. So sorry, I'm not sweeting on your behat here, but no.
No, I agree. It all resonates.
I look back now and I'm like, oh, I'm just finding and obviously I'm way older than you, but I'm just learning to be like, wait, I'm actually really smart. There's value there. I'm funny, I'm smart, Like you know, there's the physical, but it's just it's more than that. And I never understood that then that that was useful.
Yeah, that's so funny because I was obviously in gearing up for this, I was thinking about you, and I was thinking about like when I met you, how I described you, and I was like, she's actually really funny and smart. I swear to God, and I'm sure you like me. That's not the first assumption about you. For me,
it's less. I think people are more surprised that I'm like nice and smart, like I think people think I'm mean and obviously stupid, but stupid in like at and more like an aloof way, like you're more blondes, maybe get more like a great. Mine's more like I don't
speak English. But yes, and for me as well, the discovery of that I'm smart but a was a big husband, or that I have value outside of not just beauty but talent, like just as a human being, having nothing to do with that this industry and what I have to offer. It has been important life saving, really.
Understood and for the listeners. We met Emily and I met on the set of Mother May Sleep with Danger.
Second rendition of it, You've the Champion.
Rendition, which the og one was in the nineties, and I played the daughter stocked in college by her lover and like her mom saves her and it was a big Lifetime. It became like a cult classic, and I think primarily because of the title. And then I got the call literally one day. I can't unhear it. It was the craziest call of my life. I was driving to set and I got a call from my agent and she was like, we have an offer for you and Lifetime and James Franco are remaking Mother May Sleep
with Danger and he is reimagining it. And I was like, wait, you just said Lifetime. You just said James Franco. And then she's like, and wait, it's going to be a vampire lesbian movie.
And I was like, there's just like.
A long pause and my brain was trying to like grasp all of the things she just said. And then I was like, okay, I'm in, Like, I mean, you can't turn that down.
Yeah, that's that's how I felt. I was told to turn it down. But you guys don't get it, clearly don't get it.
Yeah.
And it's interesting because I feel like, at least for me, we never really have talked about that experience. We actually after. I mean, you filmed a lot more than I did, but I just played the mom But I felt like we didn't connect to like the very end. Yeah, and then I felt the same way about you. I was like, oh my gosh, I feel like we have the same dark humor. Like I feel like we get each other. And I was like, we.
Have to keep in touch.
And yeah, I probably had the same thing coming onto that set.
Well.
I was scared of everybody coming onto that set because it was such like I just felt like, oh my god, James Franco is making this movie, Like do I even belong here?
What does he think of me? What is it?
There was so much going on in my head and you and Laila were so great and I and yeah, I was just like trying to fit in. And but I probably was scared of you at first too. I mean you were playing the vampire at last week.
Yeah, that's scared.
Yeah, you're like a larger than life. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people don't even think of you as like a human because you're such an me.
Yeah, like I'm scared to work with you.
That's always how it works.
Yeah yeah, yeah, of course, Like I would never think that about me. But you're like, not you're a You're you've become beyond human kind of, you're like immortal.
Yeah, well you're a compliment.
Yeah, it's a comment, but I also say it with like empathy for like that's probably horrible, you know, like that people are not fully seeing you as a human, which is why it's so cool to get to connect with someone who's like a symbol at this point sort of and then you're like, oh yeah, the human and that's always really nice. And I think we all need
that when people like don't see us fully. I think any actor, any performer is like ultimately, that's why people can like, you know, say discusting things about us to us whatever on the email, because it's like it's not a human, right and we're supposed to just take it and just yeah, I mean people, it's just you're not a human. Like I almost I can separate myself in the way of like you're not seeing me as if I came into your living room.
It's I don't you do remember the movie nodding Hill?
Yeah, and like when Julie they hear like the guys being like.
And she goes over. It's like, I bet your.
Dicks are tiny, like you know, like that's true like people and they freak out. It's like, yeah, we're one dimensional to people until we're in their presence.
Oh my, that's a T shirt. I'm not one dimensional.
Yeah, no for sure. And so you came on sorry kind of segue.
You never know air.
No, no, I do. I go every which way. That's how my brain works too, and then I'll come back to where Yeah, that's so inches Sorry okay, So yes, so we met on that movie. Wait, how did that movie come about? Had you already done the Deuce?
Yes, it was it was between the first and maybe it's between the pilot and the first season.
Because we had that's right, that's what he told me.
Yes, yes, I met James through and I didn't even get a call.
I just got anyone.
I mean, I'm sure many people have emails like this from James Franco of just like in the subject high it's James, and then like one sentence of like this, I want you to be in this movie you play Pearl, Like that's it.
Really?
Yeah, it was like that, and then I sent it to my like but yes, it was. We had done the pilot of the Juice at that point.
Yeah, okay, so you get that email. How do you say no.
Like did you eat? What do you say? Could you even read a script? Or you're like.
No, I mean I obviously on paper there was plenty of reasons jes say no.
Wait in the email, did he tell you the concept?
Yeah, but it was not like the way he writes these emails are it's very rudimentary. It's like very He's not He's an intelligent per but it's a little bit elementary school level. It's just that it's like this is what I think you know, Like so it was like it's a lesbian vampire. I don't There was no like awareness of like the irony or the subversion of it.
It was just like very simple facts. Got it.
I've read it, and my agents at the time were like, you, obviously this is a path and I was like, actually to me, yeah, I mean I think that's another thing. That it's different if you're actually in it versus watching it. It's like this industry is so horrifying in so many ways, and there's so much bullshit and all the things people think is art, there's like still so much evil in
manipulation behind. So it's like, yeah, I want to do something that's like actively bad, like actively fuck you to like what is supposed to be art and good and like that's a bucket like to be in a lifetime movie. It's so over the top, it's so ridiculous.
Yeah.
Yeah, to me, it was a must. To them, it was like are you okay right? Of course no.
I I remember my agents were like okay. I'm like obviously it's an end for me, but like I'm gonna say yes. And they're like, well, you know, James just wants to do a call with you and like just talk to you about it.
And I was like okay, So I like tried.
He was like on set or something I had like and they were like, you know, when he can do it, they were like, he has a free moment. I was like hiding from my kids in my closet. I'm like okay, And I talked to him and I was like such
a fan. I was trying to be like super cool, and he was like, you know the Will Ferrell movie, you know, the Lifetime it's supposed to be overtly like and yeah, he gave me like the few senses and I was just like, oh, yeah that sounds It was obviously a yes, but I was like, yeah, that.
Sounds really cool.
But I was like I got the vision and I got like what it should be. I still don't know if Lifetime viewers got it.
I don't imagine did it do well. I'm like, like, I don't feel like.
It didn't do well.
Yeah, they were like what is this?
Yeah it was I I've never really I've heard like a few, like I've gotten a few messages or whatever about it, but yeah, I don't I don't know if it was clear. It's also I mean, when you watch it, like it could be like fifteen minutes long instead of a full movie, Like it's sort of just like a music video over and over of like vampires Walking, which is funny and great, but like I could want to watch the whole thing necessarily.
Yeah, I feel like, in my opinion as a fan and viewer, it didn't push it far enough to be that kind of absurdity that you're like, waity, and I think that's part now when you were filming it, at least, this is what they told me, that they were doing two versions, two cuts, because they were going to air it. No, sorry, there was a lifetime version and then a version they were going to put in the theaters.
I don't even remember. It's possible they said that, but like I've been lied to so much, like I don't even I'm like, yeah, maybe, I don't remember.
So they were doing like a more edgy like they were gonna do.
An edgy this is I was like, this is gonna go to theater, okay, but I was like, okay, I'm with you. It's James Franco, Like, you know, you can get a theatrical release obviously. Yeah, it was gonna be edgier and push the limits. And I don't know if that involved dialogue or nudity, Like there was definitely scenes that they I was told they were shooting two versions.
Yeah.
Interesting, maybe, I mean, at no point did we show are like a boobs or anything. I thought the sex scene I remember, because yeah, the sex scene between Leila and I that on lifetime.
I thought was like it was like because.
It's like embarrassing long and this, and there's like there's something about the detail of me, like moving my hand in a certain way.
I'm like, it's so embarrassing. So to me, it was pretty an intent.
Different like yeah, and I don't, I don't. We had like the things on our nipples the whole time, like, so I don't. I don't remember shooting it. I just remember shooting it like a sex scene.
And then it seemed it's epically long.
I feel like that's it's really long. Yeah, I wonder if they've changed it since the original airing, if they ever.
Yeah, I probably only saw it that time.
And was there an intimacy coach then?
No? Right before that was before?
Yeah, okay, So do you feel like if you had to go back and they obviously everyone gets an intimacy coach now, would you have asked for one on that movie?
I would have asked for one. I mean that's why anything we've ever did what.
I did with it of making it things, because it's it wasn't until me too, that I even realized how how it has been for all of us. And but so yeah, all of all of my experiences leading up to my position with intimacy coordinators, I should have had an intimacy coordinator. And yeah, my first sex scene before eighteen,
when I was modeling I did movie. My first sex ever was at sixteen, and even that it was like the guy just had a sock on his dick, like there was and it was like it was a rape scene too, which is an interesting way to like start.
But yeah, I I've had sex scenes that weren't like nothing bad happened, but I think there should have a Yeah, there was, there were ones where bad things happened, and just in general, like there was nothing bad in the Leyla and I seem per se, but it was It's still like a lot and you can't objectively see, you can't objectively really make decisions while you're in that space.
I haven't done a sex scene in so long, I don't even remember.
Do you wish you had had intimacy coordinators? No?
Oh, I'm just kidding.
I don't know.
Well, a lot of women are pretty mad about it.
A lot of people think I have a title tale.
Yeah no, no, no, yeah, yeah, I mean I don't feel like any in my experience alone, anything has gone too far.
There was some.
I was more comfortable with certain people than others, and I guess for that reason, yeah, I'd want.
It to be less.
Do you ever feel now that, I mean, you've spoken up so much about it and I have been such an advocate. Now moving forward with your career, does it somehow take you out of the scene when you're in it having someone there or do.
You feel well?
The fucked up part is I think it fucked with my career to the point I have not worked with an intimacy coordinator since.
Really, yeah, yeah, I definitely.
Think it did. It did some damage.
I don't regret it, but it's I've worked the least I have in my entire career since that, to the point that I have not. I have not worked with an intimacy coordinator since creating co Create whatever the intimacy coordinator.
So I don't know. I don't know what it would be like. I know that's not true.
Alicia Rhodis, who was the first ever intimacy coordinator who we worked with on The Juice, I did work with her one more time recently on the Penguin because I was the mother and there was kids and I'm like cuddling them and like, right, so I was.
I was.
One they were watching.
Exactly so that but that didn't really count because it was not a sexual scene. And obviously when she asked them if they were comfortable, they were twelve year old, but they were like yeah, it wasn't really a complicated situation. Although I still am always afraid of like accidentally traumatizing a child, but it was pretty it was pretty changing the cuddles.
Any child in this business is going to be traumatized.
Sure, Yeah, I just don't want to be a part of I don't want to be abide him. Yeah.
I am a huge fan of your Instagram, which sounds creepy but it's not. And I often find myself thinking like, well, if I didn't know her personally, like would I be as engrossed with your Instagram? And the answer is yes, a thousand percent like I And I mean, I know it's not all like rainbows and unicorns, like I feel like you're very raw and vulnerable in your Instagram. I'm sure you get you right. The haters like you know, I understand, but from my perspective, I appreciate it. I
think I just really like and get your personality. So I'm there for the highs and the lows and not in a bad way, just like appreciating it. But okay, speaking of your Instagram, so I want to talk about your psychic ability because that really grabbed me.
Yeah, you're definitely psychic. I could already tell, but I intuitive, what's the difference. I don't think there is a difference. Okay, it's yeah.
I think it's I mean, reading that book and the more you explore, because I mean, I've always felt like that to some degree, but you obviously don't know what that means. I mean, I remember when I was like five or something like, preparing to like essentially, it felt like I was like coming out to my muster as like, Mom, I have to tell you something like I think I'm magic, like I don't. I don't think I'm a human. I
think I'm magic, and I don't. She didn't like to send me a Harry Potter's Glory, saying it was very like I think I expected a much bigger reaction of like, Okay,
we're gonna have to do something about this. But so my whole life I kind of had that feeling and then it gets really like bastardized and turns into just being like sensitive and overwhelmed by everything, but looking into it more and well, yeah, how it kind of came back to me is like I'm obsessed with any sort of occult magic and I've gone to several psychics and all that, and they always and they're always like, you
are very psychic and you need psychic protection. But I've been told that I'm like covered in foreign energy, Like I'm constantly taking on things and i don't know how to like separate it. If you're an EmPATH, yes, which is is like from what you're what I'm reading about being a psychic is it's it's all the same spectrum. It's kind of like just how much you are and then you can kind of like you know, there's it's intuitive like somewhat psychic media like medium psychic, and then
like very sick. I'd say I'm like more in the medium with like some of the very, but like the very is like you can't really function in society basically, But I'm learned like EmPATH and psychic they are ultimately the same thing because all you're doing is like picking up on energies and some of those are can be like future, but it's it's just how much you're actually
focusing it. But yes, when I was a kid, like I couldn't even go on the subway because I or I did, I had to, but I'd be crying because I'd be like that man, sad like I was so overwhelmed by people's feelings and that's ultimately psychic.
Miss from what I'm reading.
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Okay, so many questions.
Okay, but I feel like the word psychic were literally especially women crucified for it. No pun intended.
It's like, oh, psychic, so you're witchy and you're like into all culton.
It's like, yeah, and it is more about feelings and emotions and yeah, I have the same thing, and it's a really challenge. I don't know, it's not the chickery of yours, probably, but look at me. That's me apologizing because I'm like, I said something about myself and it's like I'm not worthy, so I had to like deflect and be like it's not as good as yours.
It's also to feminie it's like not being in the boy Like you can't say you're a psychic in the boys club.
That's like they're gonna like it's so on. Yeah.
Yeah, but I have a really hard time letting go of other people's energy to the point like it's it affects everything because immediately and it's not like when we talk about this to people, we're not saying like or maybe you do. I don't know you can look at someone feel something and know what's going on with their life.
I don't know that, but I.
Totally know if they're sad, if there something's going on that they're like no, how did you know?
And it's like, oh, terrible, I can't get rid of the energy.
Yeah, really bad when you're in a relationship with an avoidant and you can feel their feelings and they're denying them and they don't like it when you say I feel this that that's where it's the worst. But yes, in general, it's it's really really hard for me to function sometimes because of that. Yes, or even like I don't know if you've found this, but I learned for myself, like relationship, like when I'm close with people, but then like days where I like where it's like a lot
of extra background actors on a seat. I didn't understand until very recently why like I would want to go home and like cry and feet like it would fuck me up so much, And it's like yeah, because you're surrounded by sometimes hundreds of people and they all have their own stuff, and also often it is like a sort of eager or like there can be like an energy to that that's a little, can be sad, can
be intense. Like the reason people are showing up there is like because they're chasing a dream and it's usually it's not like a chill energy like intense energy. So things like that are or even just like going a set, there's so much socializing too. There's so much like you're having to talk to people all day and like you don't really have much control when people are coming and they're touching you in there and you're constantly like getting their energy.
It's like my daily trips target. Yeah, oh god, yeah, Although I do like Target I too.
I like it because I can leave, like when you're on a set, you don't have the ability to leave, Like I like airports. I like I like places with like a lot of different types of people.
But so do you think you like humans? I think I do.
I think I think I'm definitely fascinated by humans, and I think like it's interesting because I always, you know, I feel like being judgmental is like a big conversation with people of like, you know, the people who are like I'm not judgmental, and to me, I'm always like those are the ones that are more judgment because to me, it's like, yeah, I am judgmental, Like I look at things and I judge it and I use critical thinking.
But that's because like beneath that, I can have love and forgiveness for like everything and everyone, but I need in order to have that, I need to like really look at it. And so to me, I'm always driven crazy by people who are like.
No, no, no, I don't know who knows what their life is like, I don't judge. I'm like, it's mine trying so hard with that motto. It's so difficult. I don't see.
I don't.
I'm like, it's okay to think about it and to like have feelings about and have opinions about it, as long as what you come through to on the other end is like and they're human and they're they were once a little baby who got her or whatever, and like it's okay that they're evil or whatever.
No one's I don't. I think there's very few people that are either are actually evil.
Do you believe in karma them?
Yes, yeah, I do do.
I do.
I just I don't think it's like one to one.
I feel like in our industry. I've seen a lot of yeah things that I'm like, how are those people? And I gotta tell you, I used to think it was more like, oh, the male driven ones that I was like, oh, how are they still working? They're not great? But now as I'm getting older, I'm looking back through and I'm like, it's the females a lot of the time, which is we're always taught sisterhood and women have each other's backs. I don't know if I believe that anymore.
I think we can, but you know what, women and men can.
Have each other's backs.
It's just it's I don't know. I think I've been screwed over more by women than men at this point.
Me too.
I mean I've been screwed over on more interpersonal levels. But obviously we've been all been broken and over and over and over.
Yah.
But yes, i'd say as far as like my betrayals in this industry, it's been women and always women who are now currently thriving.
Absolutely.
My empathy I come down to for that is like, well, yeah, we're all bred in this way of like we're all fighting for the last crumb as women, and like we're all like so it's really hard to have a sisterhood everyone because it's like you kind of can't.
They're not room for enough. There's not room for all of us.
So like innately, there's like a competitive like let me be the one to get there, and it's not okay, And I don't do it, and that's probably why I'm not a movie star because I don't have the to do that. But like the people that do, I'm sure I hate some of them and I think they're nasty people, but I'm like they were whatever. They were raised in a world where they felt like they had to fight for like the last seat in the room and do whatever they had to do to do it. I don't appreciate.
I think that is very low energy and like low vibration.
Yeah, is that alpha energy?
Like what is that?
Like it's not innately, it's like it's not our DNA. I don't think to have that.
I think it's this.
I mean, I could go a million places because there's something I talked about a lot. I've talked about a lot in therapy with alpha and beta. Yeah, I think that's beta. I think like you would read to me as an alpha, and I think I'm an alpha. But I was so quickly beta myself to someone because yes, I'm afraid that if I alpha, then I won't have any friends, like I don't have anybody or like with men. Actually, like if I if I'm fully in my power an alpha, like forget, I'll be on an island.
I feel like.
So I'm so quick to like act like a sub and be like what did here and bait? Yes, And it's the betas I think, who like they don't have that. It's just like let me go go go like fuck everybody, whereas I think when you have the ability, like when you know your power, you're more careful with it. And then the people don't have as much power. Oh we let them overpower us.
So how are you going to find your power? I'm trying to do it now.
It's really challenging.
I know, I know.
And if I hear one more time someone say get back to therapy, keep up with your therapy, you know, it's like, yeah, I'm unworking for me, Yeah, fifty two years and then who knows what passing?
I don't even know. Yeah it's yeah, I know, I mean it.
Doesn't happen that fast, and I mean it's great to work on stuff.
But it's like I know, no, I mean, I'm lifetime it's oh yeah.
Lifetime movie.
No, I didn't even think of that. Yes, yeah, it is like probably lifetimes.
No, I think it is. I think it is a lifetime movie. Yes, yeah, and I think it is more.
Wait, do we have something here? Create some lifetime movies.
I'm sure we have many, There's so much here, but yes, I think it's like, I mean, I'm obsessed with there. I do all the things possible, and when I run out of steam and get angry is when I'm like, I'm doing all the fucking things possible. How do I still not have any of like the things that I want?
And I don't know.
All I can think is that I it's like it takes longer to build Rome wasn't built in day.
I don't know.
It's like it's just I don't know or so like I think, no matter what, I have found peace or joy in wait. Like my therapist said to me recently after my most recent breakup, of like, she's like, you're
essentially a raw nerve. She's like, so, yes, you feel a lot more pain and hurt than other people, but you also feel a lot more joy, and so like that's the trade off, and it's true, like I've seen in like I'm someone who can cry hysterically and you'd so hurt and angry and then be like hysterically laughing that night and like so deeply appreciating the joy of that.
It's a wild ride.
But like a lot of like when I look at the people who are thriving, like I don't think they're necessarily having that much joy.
I don't know.
It doesn't look like it, it doesn't feel like it. And there's certainly I can't imagine they're having peace, which are things I value more the older.
I get peace.
I don't know that words.
So you don't have it.
You don't. You don't feel any sense of peace, not like quiet necessarily. It's just like internally, you know what you have? You need a psychic book.
Maybe I should start the book you were reading. Sorry, what was the title of it, managing managg Man.
I like that word psychic, Yeah, well, because that's it's not having like yeah, the book really shit talks people who are like teaching people to be psychic because they're like only it's the same with like the masochist thing. They're like only people who aren't psychic like want to learn how to be psychic. Like it's about controlling it, not about it's about like keeping it at bay.
Not getting more of it. Who wants more of it?
When you put that book on Instagram, were people just like crazy bad shit?
Not even I mean it's really yeah, I mean I.
I was psyched when you did it, but yeah, no, it's.
I don't know.
I will say, like, I've definitely gotten haters and nasty things. But for the amount of sort of like provocative things I say doc that I don't get, I don't know. I think people do respond well to honesty for the most part. So like sometimes I'll say something that I'm like, oh, and then people are like, so glad you said that, it's really are I'm like, and of course there's it's but it's really more occasional that I get the anger.
So the psychic thing, no, people either yeah, there's always gonna be like nasty, like sexual things.
Or like.
Or often people just don't get when I'm being like ironic or funny or whatever, you're being cheeky, cheeky, yes, because I'm like i'd be embarrassed to post this, and people like no, girl, like, don't be a pair of I'm like, yeah, no, I'm posting it right, But no people are. Maybe it's because I'm like, I am not and I've gone to every second.
I am not bipolar.
I don't have any diagnosis, but I once had a person like being like I appreciate her Instagram so much.
I'm bipolar too.
I think there's something about whatever, like vulnerability or something that it like disarms people and they're more accepting of whatever weird things I say.
I don't know, but no no one said anything mean right, you're weird. I'm weird. Yeah.
I used to be so scared of the word weird, and now it just really defines so many beautiful things about somebody. It makes them so eclectic and well rounded in a way. Do you feel like your social honesty social meaning social online, not socially, but as that scare the industry away at all?
Do you think, yes, that's the part I think it like as far as like the fans or people, I think it means a lot. But I think between yeah, my work with the intimacy coordinator, my I think the industry has never known what to do with me, like ever, and I think in the beginning of my career they were trying to like make me an age of new and I like was not good at that, but then I was like convinced that's what I should do. So then it felt like a failure not really doing that even though it's.
Never what I actually wanted.
And then the more like as time is gone, like I've always had a good reputatione like, people think I'm a good actress. People it's never that, but I just don't think they know what to do. And then everything with the intimacy coordinator, I think I then I became this like goody two shoe tattletale, unfuckable person, and then
that didn't fucking help anything. And then yeah, my manager has said since the beginning, like you're too smart to be an actor, Like just even the questions that I ask or the opinions I had, not saying actors are stupid, but they want actors to be stupid.
Right, but you're too good not to be an actor. You're so fucking talented that it was I think you're too good to be just an actor that is just cast into something that's my opinion, thank you, you're too talented.
You need to be creating your own stuff. Yeah, think.
I mean that's what people have said for a long time, and I've was always so resistant.
I did.
I have a me and my friend wrote a script recently kind of about like it's you know, very personal and meta and about this place in the industry of like having had some amount of success but then also like not being able to pay rent or whatever it is because of and kind of trying to do something help like because it almost feels like the healthier I've gotten, the less.
I work, which is really sad and dark.
But when I was a more like tormented thing, that was you know, I played those parts.
And now that I'm like a kind of stronger, fuller person.
I work well us I will and I've only worked as mothers since as soon as I turned thirty five, like literally literally only auditions from others, which I mean, whatever, but that's crazy, I know, I know, I feel crazy because I'm like, I don't like, I feel like I still have a youth. I don't know, I don't know. We'll see how it goes.
If you look like you're in your twenties, I mean it's yeah, it's there's something.
It's really weird. I don't know, there's something about it.
Then look what happened with Nicole Kinman's career.
I know, yeah, which if I can financially hold out, then I will.
I just like climbing that mountain going back down. And I mean, you have a way bigger career than me. But I'm just as an actor. As an actor, you're like, there were actively that maybe not even though lately, but sure, okay, start doing reality TV like me.
I mean, there you go. Maybe, but I don't know.
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I literally, you know, people all the time are like, oh my gosh, should do this TV show and this, and and like I don't think I've had no other self tapes or do they go back into the rooms now. I don't know. I sed to be terrified of auditioning in rooms, but I actually thrived in it. Like that's when like I did the best.
Oh I need the respond Yeah, the.
Feedback is a former. We're all doing this because we want attention and love. Like I just do it with that, Like you need that like nod or that smile or whatever to be like, oh I'm doing good.
Self tapes have ruined me.
And here's the thing. I mean, I don't think i've had. I've had like one audition in the last like two years. But if it's a self tape, somehow, I will be like, oh, I'll get to it, I'll do it now, I'll do it then, and then I'll run out of time. Yeah, it's like, but if I have to show up and be in someone's office and like walk in and do it, I'm there, Like, so it's leaving more safe space?
Is creative mine? I feel like I don't.
I mean, I have friends who I think are talented who like self tapes, so maybe that's shamee, But to me, I'm like, it's a different skit, Like it's an entirely different skill set.
And if you're a true like creative, like you can't.
Be held responsible from like we're children and you have to be like told like do this at this time in this spot.
I can't. I can't even wash my dishes.
I want me to put together a self I do it, but it's really hard for me, really.
Hard when you must have active auditions all the time.
It's been it's crazy.
I mean, these past five years it goes like that, like this again, it's the least I've worked, and it's the least I've auditioned. Granted I'm auditioning for less thing. Like you're young, you're auditioning for everything, and then people start to decide if you're right or wrong way earlier in the process. But no, it's I've gone like this year total, I don't have maybe auditioned like ten times, which for some.
People, right, I'm like that sounds great, but no, I know, but like you know, I know what you're saying.
Yeah, I used to audition, like I was just in LA for three months, and obviously there's no in person, Like I used to go to LA and I'd be like in an uber because I don't have a driver's license, and I'd be like going from Saraonica you live in Europe area. Yeah, but it's still I'm thirty six, I need a driver license. But yeah, I'd be like in traffic all day going like changing my clothes and the
uber going from auditional audition. Now it'll be months without anything, and this is my only source of income, like it's my job. Yeah, and then it's self tape, so you don't even get feedback half the time or seventy five percent of the time. So it's it's like It's it's kind of the coolest thing you can do in an actor, just like have them perform in a vacuum and then just be like ignot pretend that they didn't even exist.
It's so true.
Wait what so like, what are your side hustles?
Don't have a side hustle, which is crazy? Could we create one for you?
I would like, I mean, I've been trying to figure that out for years. That's the thing that's like magic about my life because I don't come from money I've met. I mean, I've never once in my life had anybody, family, lovers,
anybody like helped me financially in any way. And like, I've spent so much of my adult life being on the verge of poverty, and yet I've like always managed always been okay, Like I was evicted once but not since, and I haven't like I haven't been financially secure in quite a while, but I also haven't been like eating wrong and noodles for every meal in quite a while.
Like I don't know how I've managed to like not be working, not have money, but I still like can buy nice face cream, and I'm like and then I just somehow I get saved at the last minute, like by at least one job or whatever it is. But it'd be nice to, yeah, to not need that and to feel more secure in that, just like I don't I'm not relying on that, but yeah, I don't know how I'm somehow protected, but like i'd like to be protected. I'd like to be thriving, thriving, so.
You don't have to worry, Like that shouldn't have to be a worry. I understand from you know, we're all in different situations, but it's do you do you feel like you're I feel like you're I feel like you're keeping yourself small.
I feel like if if you were doing you're like, no, I don't want to know. I mean, I don't want that. Yeah, yeah, But there's.
Something in the chaos of like I'm just saying this out loud because this is I feel ingrained in me as well, and I don't know how to get out of it. There's something about that chaotic cycle that almost keeps us thriving when we're like no, no, no, we don't want that. We want this like great thriving so we can be more creative and not worry about.
The stuff that we should be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh no, no I don't yeah, I do not want to be in that, And so much of it is like, yeah, I guess breaking internal belief. Like one of the many psychics and healers I went to a few years ago was like, do you feel like you don't think you deserve to be right? And I'm like, yeah, I like I have a I'm like that's such an ugly thing to want, you know, and like there's people starving and blah blah blah, and I can't.
And only recently am I starting to try to be like why the fuck not like yeah, whatever, yes, I do want like like I'm not helping anybody by not wanting to have a fabulous life. And if I do get to a point where I have more, I will always want to share that and like use it to help always.
And I think when I was a kid, that's I was like always like.
I'm gonna be fucking rich and I'm gonna live in a Brownstone and I'm gonna adopt twenty kids, I'm gonna stay before Angela and Julie, and I'm gonna like use my money to save the world. And so I didn't feel guilty about the idea of wanting it, and I don't. Somewhere along the way, like I felt less deserving and and got more confused and made choices like away. Oh, I've made so many choices away from money, usually because it feels like sacrificing integrity.
But I don't know.
Now, I'm like, I should have just taken the money and run for half of those things.
But yeah, I don't know.
Is there one you can pinpoint that was You're like many now looking back at like when I was what did you turn down that you would have now made a different choice.
About, probably like when I first started acting. But also no, because like when I first started acting, I was like being offered like all the CW you know, like any like like hot, like girl on a CW show, you know. But I'm like, if you know whatever, people like I because I grew up in the nineties where it was like TV or film or like you don't you didn't, Yeah, I didn't know. So then I was like, no, no, no,
I can't be a CW person. I can't do that because I want to be a real actor now and like it doesn't fucking you can be from TikTok.
But all that being said, like I would have run out of that money.
I didn't know how to use money, Like what, I there's this one that's not even a TV show. It was like it wouldn't have been that much money. But there was like an indie movie that basically I was, you know, there's a lot of interest in me for it. And I chose not to go into the city for the audition because I was currently doing reshoots with my on again, off again boyfriend at the time, and I didn't want to leave the hotel because I was afraid
that he would break up with me. So I like skimmed through the script and I was like boring, like no things, didn't do it. And I was already supposed to be in this other movie at the time that was supposed to be like a thing and it's a two percent Rotten Tomatoes. It was not a scename, but there was another girl in it. It was just the two of us cast, and then she wound up dropping out to do this other movie that I didn't do, and she went an offer for it and became a fucking.
Huge movie story. Wait what movie Winter's Bone? Shut up? But and who knows.
I don't know for sure I would have it was, but at the time I was hot to trot, I had whatever. But how I see that is like, Okay, my demons and my you know, addictions and my stuff with men and all that like stop me from doing that. But in a weird subconscious way, I was also protecting myself because I was so unhealed and so unwell that if I had become famous at that point, I would
have probably died. Like I couldn't have handled that. So it was like the thing that stop blocked me from it is the same thing that I.
Needed to work through. Yea that even handled like I really would have died.
I could if at that point, at twenty years old, I was so I had so many demons to work through and like I was so vulnerable, and I would not have been okay.
And I as much.
As I wish my career or I've wanted my career to be bigger already than it's been, like I'm so grateful I've had privacy to work through a lot of this stuff and now I feel like I could actually enjoy it and show up for it because I've like created I didn't have the support systems I had.
Then I didn't have the tools I would Oh, I would have died. I would not have been good.
Okay, so we're putting it out there. You're ready for it at all?
Oh, I'm ready.
I'm still date avoidance most recently. Yes, I just learned that word.
By the way. Yeah, it's it's like it's.
Kind of like a topical word now right now. And before that it was narcissist, you know. Now it's it's I did it all.
I did all those types and we all have like you know, cross skill. But yes, yes, I My most recent relationship I would say, was with an avoidant and it was very painful and all this stuff. But I'm currently like really trying to get to the bar like fetal position, crying, like trying to like get to the deeper trauma that is like because at this like there was a time where I didn't feel like I was a good partner. I think I'm a fucking I think
I am a really good partner. But it's like like as if I'm like a really good trained like Olympian swimmer, but I'm like just showing I'm like take me to the Olympics and then I go to like the fucking pole vultle thing.
And I'm like trying. I'm like and I'm like, why isn't.
This working, Like it's like, oh, you have to be you can't just go to the Olympics.
You have to find the specific you have to train.
Oh my gosh, same relationships. Wow.
Yeah, yeah, So I feel I feel prepared to be a really fucking good partner. But the problem is I need another really good partner, like they need to be a good partner. And I don't know what fucking men are.
But right, but I'm sure you've been told this because I'm similar that you're drawing those people in of course. Okay, yeah, no, because I could meet like my friend always says, like, you could be like in a stadium a huge sporting event, which I can't even get the words out because I don't get to sporting events. I don't like sports.
So but and out of like thousands.
Of men there, it's like, you'll pick the one red flag And I'm like.
But I don't know it, but do you not, because I fucking do and I do it anyway.
Yeah no, no, as soon as I see the signs, I'm.
Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, exactly by that, and.
I just now everyone's like pick the green flag. I'm like, oh whatever, but I don't even know what that.
I don't even know.
Especially I feel like in your third I don't know what your experience was were you were you married when.
I was married for eighteen years, So it's like.
I got no I know, I know, I know reality. I know that was a painting. You know, there was a lot of pain there. But in your thirties, all the decent men are fucking married.
They're partnered.
Like if there's to me, if there's a guy over thirty five who's never like fully committed or there's something wrong.
I agree with that.
So what I need to wait for the divorces? No, I don't know.
Now I've now been, you know, semi single. I had one relationship I was in since my husband but for two years now, over two years, and I don't know. The divorce ones are messed up too, So it's.
That they have the baggage. I don't know. I don't know. I really don't know.
But I feel like I used to have a rule that I completely ignored recently, but of to like if a guy by thirty five hasn't like started the journey of changing people never, if anything, they'll just like keep going backwards and get more and more immature. And I think I have seeing proof of that over and over and over again. But yeah, the one so right now, I'm thirty six. So it's like the ones who where they could say that about you then yep, sure no, but it's different men.
I do think it's different. It's different, I really do.
Uh, But they also could say that about I mean, yeah, but I'm also working with a lot of fucking shit. Yeah, it's been a fucking journey to become like a good
but that's the thing I started the journey before. So it's not like all men over thirty five are off limits, but they have to have like really started the journey of work and not just therapy, because every guy I've ever fucking dated has been in therapy, and like your therapist only pushes you as far as you're willing to be pushed, so like that's not enough.
Or what you tell them.
Like, So, like I saw some like video on Instagram recently of a guy being like it's like the guy who's like done just enough there to be therapy to be an asshole, but like they have the words of like what to accuse you of?
Oh my god, yeah, it's it's yeah.
But they need to have been like really soul searching already by thirty five. It doesn't mean they have to be like not, They don't have to have been married, they just have to been like, I want to better who I am.
Do you still want kids?
Yeah? Very much, I do. Yeah.
I mean I had my last one naturally at forty four, really naturally. He didn't come out naturally, but he conceived nat Like, yeah, when did you have your first?
Thirty two? Okay? Yeah, no, thirty four? All right, yeah no, I mean recently.
I've just been trying to comfort myself by like, if I have to do it on my own, I will like I don't want that to make me. I don't want to be like leaning on desperation for a man for that, because that's fucks with me. But it'd be nice to just it'd be of course. Yeah, it's I will tell you this.
I feel like, now that I've been through it, I wouldn't ever change anything. And I love my kids, and I love and respect my husband, my ex husband. But it's I'm not sure I believe that the human you have kids with is the human.
You stay with forever.
Yeah, because it really like you can't know or I would say to people, really discuss that journey of what their childhood looks like, what type of parent they want to be, which isn't sexy, Like you don't want to be dating someone and be that.
Girl, like I am that girl?
What kind of dad are you going to be?
What?
I feel like they'll tell you whatever you.
Want to hear, and it's I have a question for you because I have a feeling you're the type. Are you able to, without even knowing knowing you're doing it, assess someone so fast and know exactly what they want and it's almost like you can be that human for them. And it's like it's so scary to me when I do it because I'm.
Like, oh my gosh, this person is just like me.
And then once I'm out of it, I'm like, wait, I'm just that I can know what feelings and stuff to kind of make myself into what they want.
Really confusing because I've thought about that a lot recently, and I because I think of my I think of myself as someone with a very strong sense of self, almost as fault.
But I do think.
There's pieces of that because especially if you're an actor or like, like not that I'm acting, but I do. I feel like I have many pieces of me that I can kind of like lean into, Like I don't know, I don't have any clear idea like what the right partner for me would because I could go and sew, I could lean into the intelligence, I could lean into the humor, I could lean into the hotness, whatever it is, Like, there's so many I can reserve all of.
That, by the way, I want all of it, don't get fucking wrong.
But I'm like when it's like, you know, because obviously at this point being single, people like you just need dot dot and I'm like, I've done a lot of
different things. It's not so I I do feel like I'm pretty clear on who I am, and I don't I definitely don't change what I say, but like, energetically, I can feel maybe that there's like a lean into different parts of me, and therefore I'm like ignoring other parts and then they come or I'll play dumb a little, I think sometimes or like yeah, I'll be a little softer about the red flags at first, and then when I'm like, okay, so you can't treat me badly in this.
Way, they're like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Why so much conflict because you just were like going with it?
Yeah, and not fully, but I think it's right. More like I'll always be pretty honest. But it gets like I think i'll I think I believe people when I like say, like this shorts my feelings?
Could you not do it?
And they're like, yeah, I'm gonna work on that, And then like I just think that that's true, Like if they're like because to me, if somebody gives me a note, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna do it, and I didn't. It's hard for me to understand that people like don't want to get better always even if they.
Say they do, they don't even know.
Well, I certainly tell them.
Do you think you could be with a partner that doesn't do karaoke?
Oh? Good question.
As long as they are like enjoy being they can like get a kick out of it.
They don't have to sing it. But if they were like.
No, I don't have anti carryo, they were like up I couldn't be with someone who's like up tight, right.
So they wouldn't.
If anything, I maybe need to move away from the people who want to be the one singing but like they don't necessarily have to sing, but they have to like be down for the adventure of life.
And so is that a deal breaker?
Maybe I had thought of that one. By what about for you it's sushi? Well, I did some people who don't like sushi, and you're right, it does show a lot of fear and uptightist.
Yeah. Oh that's a.
Whole different conversation. Yeah, well, thank you for doing this.
Yeah, thank you. This has been so fun.
I'm so great to like get time with you.
I knew we'd have more.
It's just like we met on such a tiny, little, you know, moment, and I always think, like when I watch your Instagram, like, oh my gosh, I want to talk to her about this and that and that, and I just.
Feel like we would have a lot in common.
Yeah, and we would never have known. And I think you're literally one of the most talented humans and make me cry. I want you to be happy and thriving because you deserve it.
Thank you.