Welcome back to I Do Part two. It's one of your hosts, Jenny Garth, jumping in today. I'm intrigued by the conversation I'm going to have today. Sometimes when people break up or divorce, it's complicated, and sometimes there's a third person involved. My guest today is an author, a speaker, and a teacher known for her books Choose Wonder over
Worry and the Answers Are Within You. Her new memoir, Lovable is out now and I can't wait to talk to her about love, marriage, relationships, divine intervention, shame, guilt, healing, oh, all the things, so much, so much so, please welcome Amber Rat to the podcast. Hello, Hey, Amber's oh so exciting. You have a new book. The title of your new memoir is lovable, and that is a word that carries so much. So let's just start with this question. Have you always felt like you were lovable?
I have not always felt lovable. But what's interesting is that I don't know if I would necessarily define it that way. I wouldn't have thought, oh, I don't know if I'm lovable. It was for me kind of this like unconscious story that was driving so much of my behavior and motivation without me even realizing it. I didn't realize that I was trying to accomplish all these things. And I had this ambition in my career because I
felt unworthy of love. I didn't realize that I was going after a particular kind of unhealthy relationship because I didn't feel lovable, and I thought if I could convince them that I was worthy of love, then I would finally be enough. Though no, I haven't always felt lovable. But it's interesting all the ways it was sneaking up in my life without me even realizing it.
Right right when you were younger, What were your examples of love when you were growing up, like things that you saw with your parents.
Yeah, I didn't have healthy models of love.
So happens.
Yeah, my father actually left my mom and I when I was about two and a half and he got into a car accident when I was three. He got behind the wheel of a car under the influence his best friend, who was getting married the next day, said very sadly died in the crash. But my father had a traumatic brain injury, which my mom found out about on the news, and then he was in a hospital from when I was three until I was twelve, but he,
you know, never regained full consciousness. But the reason I share all this is because I remember, you know, one of my I have two core memories of him. The first was when I was right before he got in the car ACXI and he called me and said, you know, I'm sorry I haven't been around, but no matter what, I'll always love you. And that's one of my first core memories as a kid and my first memory of him.
And then fast forward to I'm nine years old and I'm meeting him in the hospital and here i'm, you know, now a young girl who wants nothing more than to feel that sort of love and connection with her father. And so I go to meet him, and of course he can't meet me. He has a brain injury. But little me didn't fully understand, and so she like walks into the hospital room just like can you see me? Can you know me? Can you love me? And you know,
he can't meet me there. But I end up making up a story that I tell my friends at the playground, which is that the moment I walked in the room, he knew my name. He said I love you to me and only me, and you know, I share the story in the book, because when I was reflecting on it, I realized that the you know, for little me, that reality was so painful to look at that I had to make up a story to make the experience.
Okay, oh that breaks my heart. Man. What was your relationship with your mom?
Like? My mom had me so young, she was twenty one. She you know, my mom was this like powerhouse entrepreneur. You know, she had all men working for her. She worked in the field of construction. She was like a badass woman. Was she a contractor?
Was she an architect?
What was she was more like a She was an interior like interior contractor. So she did all like interiors, flooring, window like everything inside of a developers in architects. But so like I had this like strong career figure who, like you know, couldn't figure out love, and so I had to a stepdad and I had you know, so my momels of love were kind of like, I don't want any of this. But the only thing I knew, the look out, of course, was like romantic comedies, these
grandeur expressions of love. This must be what love is like.
Yeah, I think my girls grew up believing that that's how real life was going to be too when it came to relationships and love stories. It's just not like that.
No, it's just not like that.
Yeah. I mean when I was younger, I saw a real love between my mom and dad. It wasn't always perfect, you know. My mom struggled with her insecurities and jealousy. And it was weird because my mom too was a very capable, strong entrepreneur out there with her own business
and really very independent. But then I would see that other side of her that was modeling for me, jealousy, and also I was at the other end of a lot of messaging that things were supposed to look like they looked in Cinderella, like you were supposed to be put up on a pedestal and just revered and you know, cherished all the time. And it's not a very realistic, you know, example of what it's really going to be like.
So yeah, I think we all have we all come into like our time when we start having those relationships and learning about love independently and we have to figure it all out and wide through all the muck that we've been fed by society or our parents or whatever it was. Our examples but yeah, it's it's an interesting journey to find out, like, oh, that's not how it
really works. Yeah, in your book, you paint the picture of a couple that looks on the outside like they have it all together right, but apparently behind closed doors, the relationship was not what you needed it to be, what it needed to be. It was sexless, there was a lack of emotion and that depth that comes with that. I think a lot of our audience can understand that and can relate because that's what happens, you know, like the decline of a marriage usually ends up with those characteristics.
Why do you think as women we take on this sort of emotional burden to make everything look fine on the outside.
Yeah, you know, I think partly because of you know, a it wasn't modeled to us what it's supposed to look like, of what true lasting, genuine love two people putting in the word, two people showing up consistently. And so I can speak for myself, you know, I look to the media, I look to movies of like, Okay, it looks like this, so you have to paint this picture.
And so I think I felt pressure to make my life match that ideal and you know, I did that because I was trying to convince myself it was right. And I was afraid from the very beginning to listen to the inner, the quiet, persistent voice within me that was like, are you sure this is it? Are you sure it's okay that you don't really have sexual chemistry with him and he feels more like a friend than
a lover. Are you sure that's okay? And I just pushed it down, pushed it down, pushed it down, because you know, I was in my first marriage, I was in my mid twenties. I thought this was what I was supposed to do. You know, women are supposed to now get married and do the thing and have the
kids and yeah. So I think there was both the societal pressure to get it right combined with you know, not knowing how to face what was missing in the relationship, not knowing how to navigate those conversations.
Yeah, because you feel the feelings, You feel the sort of emptiness or the area where you're like, where that question comes from? What is this? What it's really? Is this it?
Yeah?
And it's probably very hard, I know, it's very hard to start really listening to that voice because what you want to do is shut it down and get rid of it, because I feel ashamed of those feelings. I can imagine you did too, Yeah, and.
It's like, oh God, no, don't make me. This is going to be hard. I'm going to be able, even though my life doesn't feel quite right right now, having to address this and face that, Oh, don't make me do that, that's so uncomfortable. Yeah. So I think that's part of it as well.
I mean, for me, when I was going through a divorce, I really struggle with that. And I think there's, you know, that that element of how it's been portrayed in the press and how people know it, not you know, not just me, but like the world seeing it as one thing but me experiencing it as another. And then just the feeling not only of the sheer disappointment for the kids, but then because you didn't you didn't have kids with your first husband.
I did not, thank God, Thank gosh.
Yeah, that's a whole nother mess to deal with. But yeah, I remember just feeling like I'm letting everyone down, not just me, not just my kids, not my family members, his family members, but the entire world. And that was just so much pressure Yeah, so much pressure. Yeah, you really open up in your book about your struggle for intimacy in your marriage, and I think that's really brave, because that too, can be really shrouded in shame and
embarrassment and like there's something wrong with you. You know. I know that you talked about the fact that your partner would shut you down. Did that resonate with you as rejection? Because I've been in that situation, and for whatever the reason is, it's still there's still something inside of me that says, ouch, you know, is there something wrong with me?
Yeah? I think I internalized it a lot, and even looking back at the relationship and all the parts of it that weren't working, I never pointed to the relationship as the problem. I was like, maybe I'm working too much. Maybe I'm not you know, getting enough downtime. Maybe we're not supposed to live in New York. Maybe I like women. Maybe you know. It was like all the questions, all the questions of self of like why am I not feeling intimacy, Why am I not feeling connected to my partner?
Why isn't this working? Oh, I must be broken, I must be the problem. If I can just fix me if I can just fix us, if I can just It was like I was obsessively trying to figure it out instead of being like, oh, maybe we're not that compatible.
Yeah you know, and you don't want to jump to that one.
Yeah maybe you know we're more friends than we are lovers. Maybe we you know, maybe this isn't the right fit. That felt yeah, scarier to look at. And so it was, you know, I was always the issue, and in terms of seeing it, you know what's interesting. I think because of my background and because of some of my you know, my abandonment experiences as a young girl, I decided unconsciously to make safe choices in love and I never wanted to feel the longing or the desire for someone who
couldn't meet me. And so I think I chose my ex because he was more of a friend, He was safe in some ways. It felt like a you know, a choice where I won't get hurt again. And because you know, the intimacy and that chemistry wasn't really there from the beginning, I kind of was like, oh, well, maybe we'll figure that out eventually. It's okay, Like I you know, feel safe year in a lot of ways, So while it like, there were absolutely moments where it felt like a rejection and I felt like what am
I doing wrong? But I also think I like knew deep down that I had I was like waking up to the fact that I had chosen a safe partner out of fear of being left again.
Yeah, I can relate my first, uh, my first marriage, this is my third one. My first marriage was the same way, Like I felt like my father was he was really ill, and I felt like he was going to leave me, And I chose somebody that felt safe in certain ways, but I didn't even recognize the ways in which he wasn't safe at all. Yes, because I wanted All that mattered to me was that feeling of safety, that like big strong figure next to me, behind me,
with me, you know. So it's definitely something I think that we make mistakes, you know, when we learn from and even like in the ebbs and flows of a real of a marriage, like there are days upon days when you're like is this right? Or like am I are we too? Are we just roommates?
Are we?
What's do we really connect? And then when you stop all of those spending thoughts and you start to focus on how can you make the relationship what you want? Like what work you can do from your side to see if those feelings change, those dynamics change. But I think it's natural to have all those doubts and all those questions because I don't know about you, but like, being with one person for the rest of my life is like that is that normal? Is that doable? Do
you ever? Do you ever feel that way? Like were you ever like maybe just marriage isn't for me?
You know that it wasn't. That wasn't what came up for me. Mine was more like how do I like, can we continue to grow together? And how do we continue to grow together? And fearing that we might grow apart. But I think I was the kind of person who like wanted marriage and wanted that, like the idea of a long term commitment was actually exciting to me. I might be more anxiously attached in the attachment styles. I was like, I want closeness, and it's more like what
if it goes away? So I think that that's more what I've had to contend with. But I totally hear you on the like is this is it really one person? And you know and it's so funny because like marriages go through seasons, like I you know what, the story I tell my book is how I met my person well married, And that was what finally woke me up to realizing, wait a minute, I'm in a fake marriage. And I didn't even know I was how much I
was pretending. But you know in this, you know, we've just had a in the in my second marriage, we've now you know, we've had a kid. We have a ten month old, and you know, it's not the like sexy long drives, romantic nights out. It's like logistics, who's doing this? You know, It's it's such a different season of the marriage. And there are moments where I'm like, are we ever going to get that like that you
know back in Yeah? Right, But I feel like it like it's it's it deepened, it evolves into something different, and I think, are like, what we're doing now is how do we keep that connection alive in this season of like diapers and sleepless nights and all of the agitation that comes from not sleeping.
Yeah, I mean people could definitely relate to that if you if you have a puppy or if you have kids. You know, the focus is elsewhere, and it can really chisel away at those connections, those those intimate, sweet things that you shared when those responsibilities weren't there.
Your childist is like, why do I like you again? No? I love you, but why do I like you right now? Right?
I'm curious when you were talking about this, did you have that feeling with your first husband in the beginning.
No, it was very different. It was, oh, he feels like a friend. I feel safe here. And I resonated so deeply to what you said where It's like I thought he was so safe and I didn't yet realize all the ways in which I felt unsafe and like that. You know, that chipping away came later. But what I am very grateful for is that was a nine year relationship and I think because I felt safe enough, it was actually a massive moment for my career, my creative expression.
You know, I became an author, I wrote many books. I really like, found and discovered myself. I did deep work. I understood my wounding. I you know, learned about attachment trauma. You know, it's that relationship enabled me to do all of that, and I feel like kind of become the woman who was ready for extraordinary and safe love. And so in some ways that prepared me that relationship, as odd as that might sound.
Was he doing work also while you were doing that?
That was part of the challenge is he was not doing the same work, and so I felt like there was like a mismatch in depth and I, yeah, I just that was my biggest begging of him, like please, like we you look at you know, when you look at your stuff?
Yeah, I know. And you can't make your partner do that.
Yeah.
And sometimes they don't do it, They just won't ever do it. But sometimes something happens and they have that moment where they're like, oo, I see my part in this. I really need to figure out why I am What am I doing in this team? Yeah?
And I had a therapist say something really insightful to me. She was like, this is interesting. Who does he remind you of? Because it sounds like you've picked the same person who's familiar but new and you're trying to resolve the wounds of your past. Who are you always trying to change in your life? And I was like, oh, my mom, I know. So she's like, you're not saying, hey, husband, do the work, please work on yourself so that I you know, I'll I know you'll still be here to
take care of me. You're saying, hey, mom, please do the work so I know you'll still be here to take care of me. And I realize like, oh, I was like, oh my god, my husband is a surrogate for my How my mother wound?
I hate that so much. It's so hard because that's the last person you really want to be thinking about when you're looking into the eyes of your spouse, like it's not good.
No. I was like, I don't have daddy issues. I don't have mommy issues. And my therapist is like, uh huh, you're never trying to change or fixure of mom.
Oh man, that I mean that at the core of any fraud, you know, you can't change or fix anyone. So yeah, that's you're never going to get very far with that challenge. We hear from a lot of people on this podcast that they knew their marriage wasn't right long before it actually ended, whether it was you know, near the end, or even if it was before they walked down the aisle or as they're walking down the aisle.
There's those thoughts, you know, I always wonder am I these thoughts that on, these questioning thoughts about like have I picked right? Is this forever?
Is?
Can I cohabitate with this person for the rest of my life? I always think, is that is that a real red flag? Is that an actual red flag? Or is that just my mind just trying to destroy something good? How did you, like, cause I'm sure you felt those feelings at times too, Like how did you deal with that?
Yeah? I was I was one who walked down the aisle thinking I don't know how long this is going to last? Oh god, it was, you know, But I was also like, but well through a great party.
You see.
If that sounds like, that's how I rationalize it in the moment, you know. I think my struggle discerning between intuition and fear is also part of what kept me in it, because I kept saying, Oh, maybe this is just fear, Maybe this is just my mind. But the truth is is that when I was alone and I was still, and I'm you know, I'm a writer, and I was a pen and paper, my pen would say
this is not right. And that came from a quiet voice that came from like a knowing voice, that came from a calm, peaceful place inside of me, not a racing mind. That's like, you know, there's a different energy to anxiety and fear than there is to intuition and knowing, and so the intuition and knowing would trigger the fear of like, oh God, what are you going to do? Everyone's going to be mad at you. What are people going to think? You can't cancel your wedding? People worth
flying halfway across the world. You just spent so much money on this. That was the fear that was reacting to the knowing, And it was the fear that kept me, you know, so concerned about what everyone else would think and then not making choices that reflected my my authenticity. And so the work for me as a like i'd consider myself kind of a harmonizer and a people pleaser.
It became realizing that I have to tolerate people's disappointment and disapproval of me, and that was going to be my greatest edge, because so long as I was trying to make everyone happy, I was only going to make myself unhappy. If I was just trying not to disappoint everyone, I was going to continue to have to live with my own disappointment. So I realized I had to instead of like tolerating feeling disconnected in my marriage or like I'm unfulfilled, I was going to have to tolerate the
discomfort of other people being disappointed. And so, you know, once I knew the knowing was the knowing, it wasn't the trubble for me wasn't so much hearing the knowing, it was actually acting.
On it, right, because he carried around the knowing for a while.
Care out of the knowing for a while, and I was really like, just people, this is going to hurt someone that I do care about, and this is gonna upset people, and people are gonna have a lot of thoughts and feelings about it. And you know, our nervous
system can only tolerate so much. And so I think part of why we stay as long as we do is that our nervous system doesn't have doesn't yet have the capacity to handle, you know, canceling, let's see, canceling a wedding, spending all that money, doing all those things, And so we stay because it's actually more comfortable to stay than it is to face the hard but true choice.
Right, Yeah, for sure, I mean I felt that way for sure with my first marriage when it was over very short lived marriage, by the way, when I knew that it wasn't right, and then I started moving in that direction. And then I met someone else and that made it a lot more clear. And that's you know, that always happens when you meet someone else in a breakup or relationship ending. It's a lot easier because you're like, oh, I can focus on that, and that feels so good.
I'm going to go to that, you know, instead of thinking about the earthquake that you just you know, the big show that just exploded in your wake. And I remember feeling like the worst feeling of knowing that I was hurting someone ultimately, Yeah, and that does that can keep you right where you are, because that is a very big I choose me moment, and it's it sounds selfish m hm. It looks to other people and even internally like grappling with is this the most selfish thing
I've ever done? Yeah, it's hard to like you got to just love yourself through that, I guess, and just keep you know, reminding yourself that this is the right choice for me. Yeah, because it would be so easy to just give into those easy, comfortable thoughts like you were saying, Yeah, do you think do you think about what your life would have been like had you not
met your your soulmate John? I mean, do you think that you would still be in that marriage or do you think that it would have ended because of a different situation.
Yeah. I think about that question a lot. In the reason is I don't know. I would like to think that something would have been, you know, the catalyst or the mirror to have me be like, wait a minute, I don't know what that would have been. And I felt a lot of shame about the fact that I had. It required me to meet someone else to leave. Why Why could I just garner the strength within myself and be like bye? But you know, for whatever reason, in the way that my story wanted to unfold, it required
me to meet someone else. And you know, we can't really control how things happen. I think we can control how I respond to them. And you know, I think even though that may have not been how I would have loved for it to play out, the one thing that I did do is I was very honest and transparent. Pretty immediately the night that I met John, I and they left. I turned to my then husband. I said to him, I just met a soulmate. And I wasn't thinking.
You said, I just met a soulmate. I just met a soul may not my soulmate.
Not my soul may I just sul and I wasn't, Like, honestly, wasn't thinking in that moment, and I'm going to like blow everything up and leave you. And like I was just like the connection was so undeniable. I just said to him, like, I just met a soulnate.
And didn't he acknowledge it too?
He said, I saw, and that was beautiful to witness. So it was you know, I'm a big believer that saying speaking the truth might be the hardest thing, but it's even the kindest thing, even if we think, oh gosh, I'm a terrible person. I am so selfish. I can't believe I'm going to hurt this person that I care about. But a girlfriend of mine, she said to me, as I was going through this, and I called her, I
was like, God, I don't sort intendity. I was freaking out, and she was like, listen, like it sounds like you're coming to terms with the fact that the story of your relationship doesn't match the reality of it. No one benefits from someone being half in on a relationship, and I believe liberation is a two way street. So if you're self abandoning to the being the relationship, chances are he's self abandoning. And it's like you're, you know, feeling trapped,
He's probably also feeling trapped. And so I really like leaned into like, I'm just gonna name and finally say the things that we haven't been saying. And I don't know how what's going to happen, but I trust that if I at least speak what's true, what's meant to be will be.
So did that happen right after you met John?
The I met a soulmate happen right after I met John? And then it was just kind of like, Okay, well, my initial thinking was I'm not going to be with John in this lifetime, maybe in another life. So I'm going to make him my creative partner in this project that I'm doing and brought him on to this land project where you know you're going to detail on this in the book without getting without rambling too much. I quickly realized, wait that he's not just going to be
my creative partner. There's a lot more here.
Wait what did he Wait? What did he awaken in you that you weren't feeling in your marriage? But what was the feeling? How did you know I felt home with him?
Would be the feeling like it was? It wasn't like this like oh my god, I want you, it's like so fire. It was just like this peace, this calm, this like feeling of home, but also like feeling of a liveness. And it was I think just the way I felt with him was just like, oh, this is what you know. And it's crazy to think that I was a thirty five year old woman and hadn't really experienced like true romantic connection that felt honest and real
and not like there were games. It was just like like, oh, this is this is what real connection is supposed to feel like was the feeling.
Honestly, I don't think it's that rare in this day and age to be in your thirties and have not experienced that feeling. And that's scary in itself.
It is scary. Yeah. So I was just like, oh, this this is what love is. This is what love feels like. And even though I barely know this person. In my mind was like, you're insane, he's a stranger. But my body was like, no, this is this is love, this is connection, this is true and I can't deny that and I don't want to.
So how long was it before you ended up just you know, exiting your marriage knowing that that is what had to be done. And what was that time in the interim, like especially now working with him?
Yeah, it was about from the day I met John four weeks later my husband and I closed our marriage, and that in between time was like, I mean, it was. It was crazy because you know, John and I are first like, Okay, let's collaborate. Okay, let's name what this connection is. Okay, you're feeling the same thing I'm feeling. Okay, go tell husband, husband, I'm I'm getting feelings. And he's like, no, no, you're getting feelings. You think I'm an idiot. I know
I can see. But also this has actually kind of, you know, been helpful because now that he's meeting your emotional needs, I have all this time to go do all these work things I've been wanting to be focused on. So it was like, I mean, honestly, it felt like I was in a movie and I kept like looking for cameras. I was like, is Ashton Kutcher gonna like jump out and tell me that I'm punked? Is like? What? Like?
Is this like? It was? It was the most bizarre thing because we were kind of all in on it together and even acknowledging like no one would understand this weird thing that we're all doing together, which is like we the three of us happened to meet and maybe like and I didn't know. I was like, maybe John's a catalyst for our marriage to blow up but I never see John again, or maybe John's the blow up of my life. We're gonna find out.
Oh my god, but I like an up ended feeling. I can't imagine. So four weeks, though, four weeks is doable like that, I'm glad it was just four ways and didn't go further. Yeah, that sounds like it would just be ripping me apart.
Yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot, but it was also like, yeah, as a writer, I was just like I'm taking notes. I han't here, and I'm just gonna keep taking notes. It was crazy.
You're like outside looking in at your life. Happening right in real time. Do you believe in divine intervention like fate? Like did this happen because of that?
You know? I will say the experience made me believe in fate more. And there were strange coincidences. You know, my father visits me as a monarch butterfly and John's father visits him as a ladybug, and like we kept like it was monarch butterflies were visiting, ladybugs are visiting. Shooting stars were happening in our presence. It felt like the universe was like, hello, wake up and pay attention.
You haven't been listening. So I'm gonna be over the top to kind of I'm going to drop another shooting star in front of you and John so that you guys are like, okay. So it was it was I believed that I do believe that we were meant to meet. And even what I said to John as it was all going down, as crazy as this might sound, I was like, I feel like our dads met in SpiritLand or whatever you want to call it, and they've been
working to bring us together. Because it did feel like super divine, super faded and like and how it all unfolded it. It felt truly meant to be, you know, I don't. I don't. I feel like I'm not the words to describe it, but it did feel destined.
Yeah, And when you're in that open place where you're experiencing new feelings and it's kind of cracking you open, then I think you see things the signs so much more clearly and easily. Absolutely, the shooting stars and the butterflies. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm one of those people that's like, oh my gosh, all the signs I'm seeing, all the signs that this is the direction I should go, But maybe it's not. Maybe it's just a butterfly coming bye. Like, you know,
could we put so much meaning on it? You know, because we want to be supported in our decision, and we'll find the ways that we need so that we do make the right decision, whether it's fate or divine intervention or just a Monday.
You know, I do find I do, like, regardless of when it meant. When I'm looking for signs, it usually means I know something in my knowing and intuition and I'm looking for someone else to tell me what I know to be true is okay. So in some ways, it was like I saw a butterfly. It means I'm on the right path because I because I know I'm on the right path. But maybe I shouldn't be on the right path because society, your expectations, would tell me I'm on the wrong path. And then I'm doing a
bad thing. But you know, maybe the butterfly tells me I'm actually doing the self honoring thing. I'm gonna believe I'm doing this self onforting thing.
How did you heal from those feelings of oh, I'm doing a bad thing?
There was a lot of you know, what was interesting is that leaving the marriage was one thing, but then here I was. So six weeks after I met John, I packed my things, I arrived in la where he was living, and we'd committed our lives to each other, and we had not yet kissed.
And I was risky, very risky.
I was on the other side of a nine year pretty much sexless relationship, feeling very disconnected from that part of myself, and John was not disconnected from that part of himself. And so then all the stuff, all the insecurities that I wasn't expecting, all the abandonment, anxieties that had me be like, oh, this is why I chose a safe relationships because I didn't want to have to feel all of this and feel like a crazy person.
All of that came to the surface, and so that brought me to therapy, and therapy was both like unpacking kind of this childhood you know, this childhood trauma combined with this like good girl conditioning around, Oh this is bad. Yeah, you know what you did with selfish you you have to hurt yourself so you don't hurt another, be the
nice person, don't rock the boat. You know. All of that really like came to a head once John and I would were together, which, as you can imagine, was like really exciting for him.
Yeah. I'm sure that was just a wild time in your life too, of just all those things coming out and opening up and those realizations but being caught up in this love story. Yeah, you've said that journaling is a big part of your recovery and your healing. Tell us how you you are so into journaling, you do it with other people, you provide that service, or how does that work with your journaling?
Journaling has been I've been journaling since I was a kid. But I also lead writing workshops, journaling and workshops to help people to really create that practice with themselves. But journaling for me is that safe place where I can be as honest and as I possibly can, so that I can see myself and know myself and know what
I think and know what I feel. And so, you know, as a lot of as I was really waking up to like oh I'm actually really unhappy in this marriage, it became the place to just like name what was true. I don't want to be in this marriage anymore. I haven't felt you know, like whatever that is that the journal is that place for you. And yeah, questions can be helpful for people. So some questions that I suggest are like what truth am I afraid to say out loud?
And why or where am I disappointing myself so I don't have to disappoint another.
Those will get you in there, still in there.
Yeah, we're just like what's alive in me? You know? Can it can be if you want. It depends on like how deep you and how quick you know what's a lie to me? And so, you know, I find that like being brave on the page helps me be braver in real life.
Do you go back and read old journals sometimes?
You know? And I love Julia Cameron The Artist's Way. You know, she says three stream of consciousness pages every morning just to like get stuff, get the gunk out of the way, and she tells you not to read your pages, but you know, I sometimes go back. I think it's it can be helpful. Or as I was writing this book, I went back on my journalism a lot because it was like the I was helped me like have the pulse of what I was really feeling. So sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't.
Yeah, I remember I just wasn't ready and I would sort of kind of take a peek in there and then I just feel bad about myself all over again for whatever the issue was, whatever it was that I was working on. And it wasn't until I was like in my fifties that I was let me crack open those journals and really get to know that person at that point in her life. And it's it's incredibly telling,
you know. And you do learn a lot about yourself through journaling, absolutely, yeah, and just get it out, get it out of your head. A lot of people are going to have different opinions and they're going to understand the situation differently, and you know, some people don't understand it. What do you want your readers to take away from your book?
I want them to listen to the quiet voice within them that knows and make their life a reflection of that knowing, and whether they're in a job that doesn't that they feel trapped in, or if there's a relationship they've outgrown friendship love. You know, I feel like we all get to we often get to a moment in our lives where we realize like, ooh, this isn't quite it, and I have been ignoring myself or I've been abandoning myself, or I haven't been honoring myself because I'm afraid mostly
of what other people are going to think. And so really, I hope the book is an imation to like come back home to self and to honor what you know to be true and to let your life be a reflection of that. So like, yes, the book is this like love story, but really the love story was just a vehicle for this self love journey for me and ultimately the self liberation story. So I hope people it's a vehicle for people to liberate themselves from the cages of their own making.
I love that. Wow, Perfect Love Well is out now. You can see Amber Thursday, August fourteenth at Zibbi's Bookshop in Santa Monica and check out her website for other stops she'll be making on our book tour. Thank you so much, Amber for being so vulnerable and bringing you know, awareness to something that is I'm scary. It's scary to come out and be so honest about that. Yeah, thank you, This is much, but it's beautiful that you did.
Thank you think.
Thank you.
Take care.
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