Hey, I do Part two.
It's your celebrity mentor Kathy Schwartz, and I'm joined by my fellow Golden Bachshoulder alum and good friend Joan Vassas. Hi.
Joanes, Hi, Kathy. I'm so glad to be here with you.
Okay. So we are here at the iHeart Awards in Los Angeles, and you've not been before? Is that right?
I've never been. I've watched them on TV and I'm always like starstruck about the number of performers that actually come to this thing. I'm so excited to be here.
It's going to be great. I've been to it once before and there are so many famous people. It's just like eye candy the whole night.
I swear I'm going to meet somebody famous tonight.
I heard I heard Taylor Goodness coming.
I know Taylor. Oh well, I don't think I'm mean to Taylor Swift. I'm sure her entourage is going to keep me far away from her, but I'm gonna try to photo them. I'm her on the red carpet if I'm anywhere in here. Okay.
Well, before we get there tonight, we are going to have a very interesting little chit chat this morning. Are you ready?
I saw the subject and I don't think I am ready. Okay, Well here I am three to two one. I just got you ready. So recently, Woody Goldberg opened up about her about her sex life, being single at seventy after three divorces, and here's what she said. Quote, I am single. I do hit and runs when I need it, but I'm not married to anybody, and I don't have responsibilities unquote. She also said, in the last twenty five years, I recognize that not everybody's cut out to be in a relationship.
Some people are just cut out to be one night stance. So okay, how would you describe sex when you're over sixty five? I know you're not over sixty five, but I'm going to cut it down. How do you describe having sex over sixty two?
Joan?
Oh my goodness, you went right in for the kills, didn't you know? It? Wine around here.
So much time? John, you know, it's just you and I. We're in my living room. We're talking about sex. Yeah, okay.
So, first of all, like I got to think about woop be Goldberg, and I think she's admitting to a lot that I would have hard time admitting to like on like so publicly, and it sounds like she is perfectly happy having a like a like. She calls it a fuck boy, a person that she just has sex with. At this stage, I don't feel comfortable with that, and I'm not judging anybody. If you feel comfortable doing that, like, more power to you. I wish I was maybe more free about sex, but I just am not, and I
think maybe it has to do with our generation. Like, even talking about it is uncomfortable for me, which is here I am, and I'm podcast talking about it, but I'm going to try. I really am, because I think this is an important conversation. I honestly do.
I think it's an important conversation. I think that our generation, you and I both grew up on the East Coast. I think there's some of that puritanical heritage that are I'm afraid and grandparents, you know, sent down to us, and thank you very much for that. But I do think that tom times are changing. We are both widows. You're obviously in a relationship with talk. I'm not in
a relationship. But I think that when I got married, I was my husband was my first sexual partner and then I married him, and then I didn't have sex with anyone else until after he died. So for me, what will be saying like that? That takes a lot of a lot of courage first to admit it. But I think there are more women at all ages who are still interested in having sex. You know, we all we always hear about men and just men need a place to stick at. We hear that all the time.
Men never lose their sex drive. I think women often, I haven't lost my sex drive. You haven't lost yours.
Absolutely not, you know what, I think it's weird, or I don't think it's weird, But I think it's a fact that a lot of people lose their sex drive to the person they're married too because they become bored. I think they I think they become I'm not sure if it's boredom. I think they become too involved in their lives and it just becomes less of a priority. And then once that kind of happens, then it's hard to get it back.
So I think what you're saying, if you don't use it.
You lose it. I kind of feel like that if people made their sex life at priority in their life, I think it stays. But if they don't, but I have to say, like in my marriage, and I'm going to admit this, and God, I hope my kids don't listen to this. No one's going to listen to this.
Right, We're good.
If I got undressed in front of my husband, like if I were in the bedroom and I'm putting on like whatever I'm going to wear to sleep, if I got undressed with him, he was going to want to have sex with me, which was flattering that he still like loved having sex with me. So if I wasn't in the mood, I'd have to go in the closet and get dressed because otherwise, you know, otherwise it was going to happen. So or so.
So I will say for me when my husband died, the thought of having sex. I know you've said before on your season that you felt like you were cheating on John. Initially, I did not feel like I was cheating on my husband. When I the first time I had sex after he died, it was it was at least a few years after he died. But I will tell you I was worried, is he going to think I'm too thin? Is he going to think I'm too fat, are my boobs hanging? You know, all those things that
as your body changes. We're not twenty years old anymore, and I never really stopped to think do men think that. Do they worry about themselves?
Do they see their belly or do they see something that's not.
As Yeah, I mean I know that some men, they don't like to talk about that little blue pill. They like to think that they're virile whatever. But I will be honest, I almost feel somethings like a freak. And now my kids are going to listen and die, so you and I can get an.
Apartment about your freak, sweetie. Yeah.
So I have a lot of female friends who, after they had their children, have said to me, Kath, you're going to date and sleep with guys. I was like, well, if I find a guy, I'm interested. I mean, I'm not just going to hang a shinkle out. And they said, they said, I could care less about sex. I don't care if I ever have sex again. I have my kids, I have my tennis team. I don't care. And I can tell you many women I know feel that way. So I almost feel like I'm in the minority.
Well, I'm in the same camp as you are. I don't have that conversation again. I feel a little uncomfortable talking about sex, but with you, actually I feel very comfortable. In fact, we had a weird conversation yesterday, not knowing we were having this conversation today. Yes, do you know things about me that I probably never said to another human being.
I said things to you. We were sitting around the pool in la in our hotel, at our hotel, and we just started talking about sex and course, then both of us like Jesus, is somebody going to be sitting here?
We're looking around, are hidden all of a sudden, season are free? No, we're not freaks. We were talking about things that we hadn't done, more than things we had done. But I feel the same way as you, and I want this to be like a PSA public service announcement. People our age, lots of them still do like having sex. Yeah, and there's more to it than just the physical part of it. I think maybe for the younger generation, so
much more of it is physical. So, like you said, we've talked to the thirty year olds to twenty year olds that are out there dating and they have a pretty promiscuous I would say sex life way more than we did when we were their age. For me, it's about intimacy. It's about that closeness and about having a person that I trust enough to do that with. And it doesn't have to be particularly love. It has to be trust and right and feeling safe.
Now. That is where I'm different from what I thought I would be when I started dating initially, And even now I will say I'm either in a relationship with a guy or I'm pretty damn sure I'm going to be in one. But there you have to feel I have to feel safe. I'm not going into climb in bed with someone. You know, I'll go. If I want release, I'll go vacuum my living room rugs and run five
miles right right, right, right. So but I think that I think that there there's all these sort of I don't even know what I want to say, these old sort of witch stories. You know, things women don't enjoy sex when they get older. I know that when people women hit menopause. At least for me, it was great because I didn't have to worry about getting pregnant.
And yeah, that necessarily that was great.
But do you think sex gets worse the older you get.
No, I'm fatch. I think it's maybe the opposite. I think I am more in tune. So there was a time where I thought I am here to satisfy my husband or the man or whatever, and that was kind of my job. And like I took like.
You saw it as a job, not as a job.
But it wasn't like the physical part of it wasn't as important as the emotional part of it, as the intimacy part, Like the interest me see doesn't necessary, isn't the like the ending of you know, the sex act. So I always felt like it certainly was for the man, and I was more in tune to making sure he was pleased than myself. I am different now than I'm older. I feel like I get to have both you can because I was never into that. That's funny.
I almost, I almost. I mean I was very reciprocal, is what I'm saying.
I gotta say I learned a weird thing on a Bachelor season. I can't remember who the bachelorette was, but they took I think she was a teacher, and they
took the men from her season. There must have been about ten left, and they went to a middle school classroom and they their job was to do a sex ad class to kids do it and so and one of the guys got up and I so appreciate this guy that he got up there and he was just talking like in very generic terms, and he said, you know, when you know a man loves a woman loves him
as a man, whatever, we sometimes do it. And he said, but it's important to know that that if you don't take into account their kind of satisfaction, then they're not going to want to do it with you anymore. And I was like, well, good for you that you realize that, because I'm not sure every man that I had sex with when I was younger got that.
I will say. I was going to say, as and again, you know, it's not like I've slept with hundreds of men now either. But but give me another couple of years, you know, still got time. Just kidding, I'm sure, no, But I think that now with age for me has come, uh, I deserve the same treatment. And I feel like it's not just when we had kids, you know, it was like, hurry up the kids. I gotta get kids a little right, No, exactly exactly, And now I think the I don't know.
I can only say, and you can tell me if you feel differently. Now it's not just about the actual act of you know, penetration, it's what comes before it what it's what comes after a weekend and slow it down.
Well, that's what I'm saying. The intimate, the intimacy part of it is more important than maybe the ending of it. But now I feel like you can have both. And I did not feel like that when I was younger. I really didn't. I felt like I got the intimacy my husband or my partner got you know, you know, the ending. And I can't even say it isn't that embarrassing?
Wait three years old and after me my husband had an organs.
I am not saying that my husband he's in heaven and climax. I don't know. I can say, Okay, well, we're just we're just apparently were they picked the wrong person to do this podcast?
Yeah? Did you have nerves getting back on the horse as it were?
You know, it's funny. I really didn't. Well, okay, I'd say I did a little bit, But I, like I said, I still enjoyed having sex. I still enjoyed the intimacy. I still enjoy the ending, say, I'm calling it the ending now and so and I thought, when when John passed away, in so many aspects of my life, I said, is this all I get? Is this the end of it? And that was one of the things, you know, also that intimacy and also having that kind of relationship with
another man. I thought, do I ever get to have that again? So I was seeking that out too, as well as a lot of other things, like the other things that I felt like I had lost when he passed away. So I didn't think that was the end. I thought that I deserved it. I thought that I wanted it, and I sought it out.
So I'm going to be honest. I don't judge Woopi Goldberg. I think that's good for you. Good for you wood Be if that's what floats your boat, if that's what makes you happy. I just think that women can be so judgy at any age.
Yeah, we need to start supporting each other.
Yeah, I think there's a little bit too much judgment that goes on.
I think the man are going to love us if we support each other, because it's going to okay.
So I have a question, do you do you think men are embarrassed by Like, let's be honest, women after a certain age, we we need if you're not on hormone replacement. You know, there's all kinds of things that you can use so that it's you know, I love or up against a brick wall. But do you find that men feel self conscious about the fact they might need to use that little blue pill? Have you ever had that conversation?
No, And I've been with me men who have had to use a little blue pill. And I think it's really pretty normal, and I think it's pretty accepted since it's kind of out there in the world. There's commercials about it, and you know, if it makes it better, I mean the other the other option is that it's not going to be good. And do you want it to not be good? Do you want it to not be able to, you know, get to the point it needs to be well?
I hear you, and that's a very logical answer, and I agree with you. But I've had men say to me proudly, I don't need to use a little blue pill. I'm well, good for you, yeah, exactly good, but.
Judging you if you do right? In fact, like I want it to be good. So use the little blue pill if you need to.
So the men that for me, again, I'm a little bit older than you. I find that men very quickly are more forward about talking about sex, like they want to know pretty quickly.
They want to know.
They want to know, are you going to say you will?
Yeah?
And it's not if I buy you a nice dinner, you're going to go to bed with me. It's listen, I'm interested in you, but I'm not going to date you if you're not going to have sex with me down the road. Down the road could be two dates later, a month later, but they want to know up front. Have you found that as well?
Absolutely? And you know what, it's fair because you even said in the beginning of this podcast you have friends who are not interested in it. I don't think men ever get to that point unless you have a really like maybe very very testosterone they are having like maybe some physical issues. They don't ever not want to have sex. And so did you fare did you think when.
You were twenty five? Did you? I mean, can you? I remember thinking, oh, my parents are having sex.
Yeah, God, God, I know. I'm sorry kids for having this conversation.
Sorry.
In a podcast right now. I'm just telling you, just.
So we're clear. Your father and I only had sex three times. That's why I have three children only, just so we're clear. Okay, this You're gonna love this question, John, Aren't you glad you're in this podcast room with me?
Where's the vodka?
Now? That is my line where it's the vodcast? Okay? At our age? Is there such a thing as a fuck boy?
I recently read I recently had someone trying to be a fuck boy with me. I was at an event and I ended up to.
Your citizen fuck boys.
No, oh gosh no, they're usually like in their twenties and thirties, thinking that like for some reason they like older women.
And I don't really do Oh, I don't think a fuck boys the term. Sorry coming can I say fucking this podcast? But I don't think that it has anything to do with you.
Well, that's what I'm saying. That the one experience, or not the one experience, but the most recent experience happened like two weeks ago with a like thirty year old hitting on me and I was like, and he wanted to come up to my hotel room, and I was like, this is not happening. This is not happening, and he was very persistent. And so I think that there is
a perception that we are willing to do that. So I think funk boys are fine, and I think that apparently enough of us are doing it that people think that they're going to be successful when they I.
Think, I think there's a whole host of reasons why young ICEQ after older women and and but.
That could be a whole podcast. That could be a whole podcast.
Agree, But I also think that older men, you know, it's it's like something they're born with. You know, how many places can I drop my my semen in the world? You know? I mean, I think they know.
It's going to be the title of this podcast.
Where where did I put my where? But I will tell you I I am.
Do you find it with older men that they are trying to be fun boys instead of having relationships personally?
When I meet a guy, they find out really quickly that I'm not that's not my thing. And so you know, I don't know, but I yes have had men ask me like, hey, yeah, I find you really attractive. You want to just have sex? Like no, I don't, but thank you because because thanks for asking, because having sex means more to me. However, I don't judge women. I have friends. I mean, I think there's I think it's
incredibly stupid. I have a couple of friends who met guys in bars in their sixties, met men in bars, went home and had sex with them and didn't even use protection. And I'm like, Okay, that's smart. That's just not smart at any.
Any age, I know. I mean, you do hear those stories that that sex is so prevalent in like old age communities that they have a problem with venearial diseases. Yeah, so, I mean it's a fact.
And that's another reason not to move to a fifty five and over.
Because those sluts are spreading pad diseases. Our seamen is all over the place.
I know, wait a minute, there's female sluts too. Let's just you know.
They're right out there too.
They put their their their their.
Sluts about anyone having sex. Is really bad about it because I don't feel like it's slutty. I feel like it's like God gave you this, like you know, urge to have sex, and I mean, there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, I feel the same you do if you are willing to do that and that is what makes you happy. I'm like, go for it, guys, and there's plenty of men that will do it with you.
Yeah, and we need to come up with like and I've got an idea instead of a boy at our age, how about senior fucker?
I call them like, I say that about people. I don't like people, senior suckers, senior fuck about fuck man and boy?
No no, I mean then it's like fuck granddaddy, Like, oh, fuck old geezer. Yeah, no, you know, fucking geezer.
I don't like, does have to you have the word fucking it?
Well, maybe what it is, the act of seriously doesn't have to have a word, and they absolutely no, let's call it. Let's call it you know, uh walking walking jad man? I mean, are you kidding me?
Okay, We're not probably going to be able to change that one.
I like senior fuer.
I like it.
What advice Joan, jeez, get read? Can I ask you these questions? What advice would you give to women who have never tried a sex toy because they might think of them as shameful and there are women who.
Do well, Okay, I'm gonna say this right on camera. I've never tried it sex toy.
I didn't hear you.
I've never tried a sex.
You are never serious.
I never have.
Okay, there are never real men who shall go nameless on our side. Exactly was a suitcase full of thee I know. I'm always so amazed by that. I'm always so amazed that No never had one. I don't think I'm a prude. I just you just didn't need one.
Never had one. No, never had a man that has like thought like suggested it.
I obviously well no that I will be honest with you. I did not know until recently that sex toys, I think are were much more common with younger people. It's it's I don't know. I don't know why I say that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I did not know until recently, because someone educated me on this that that's a whole other kind of sex, is of intimacy of your partner and you using sex toys.
And I'm kind of like, I feel cheated, like I can. I'm inteliging like I've never had a partner like suggests that, so.
I haven't either. But I'm saying I don't want I'll do that when you're not around, Like I just you know, would you ever suggest it to a woman.
Like to use one?
Yeah?
Sure, if that's what you need, you should use it. I am not like a prude. Just because I haven't done it doesn't mean I prude. Just because I don't have fuck boys or fuck what do what do we call it? Old fuckers? I don't know whatever we're calling it. Just because I haven't done that doesn't mean I'm judging anybody who does it. I think it's great. I just
that's not what does it for me. I I like need intimacy, But I can't say that, Like if someone suggested it, I would say no, to be honest, But you think.
Women our age. I don't know. Maybe it's just the way I grew up. I have grown out of it. I'm just gonna be honest. There's a lot of freedom that in my mind, the older I get them more like, I don't care what you think. I'm doing what I want. I agree, But I think a lot of women feel that it's shameful to have sex choice, it's shameful to have more than one sexual partner at a time. I'm not saying I do or I don't. I'm I'm saying it is those that's shame. I don't think it's attached
to men, not at all. Well, I get tired of that.
Yeah, Like, I mean, this is going to be a long evolution to change society's feelings about the difference between women having sex and men having We've come along with come a long way. We have a whole other generation, or maybe more.
So when you say fuck boy, that's why I like senior fuckers. It can be male or female.
Not old fuckers, right, not old fuckers male or female.
No, oh, that's a state of mind.
Yeah, never senior fuckers fuckers. I think that. I think so we talk about like retirement communities and how it's so prevalent. So I think that amongst us we all think it's okay. I think we're afraid that our younger generation or the younger kids are actually going to think badly about us, because we don't feel badly about each other. I'm like, go for it. I'm glad for you, and I'm like that with my friends. I think we're worried
about the younger generation. We're worried about what our kids are going to think about not each other thinks about us.
I used to. I don't anymore. But I think part of that is is, you know, the hard stop on my marriage. I mean, when you know, one day it was done, the next day wasn't, and so it took me a long time when he died. You and I've talked about this, the thought of having sex. You guys, it was you might as well said it. And right after you have sex, we're flying into the moon. I mean, that's how it.
Was so far from It took years to get to the right place, but I did get there.
Okay, So the next the next thought I have. These are all things you know, I stay up late night thinking about just in case, you know, when I'm not having sex, is what.
You're thinking about all night long about Goldberg and what she's doing.
No, I'm like, I want the I want the list of men where she get him. I want her cast offs. So I know, I told you this earlier in the podcast. I have a lot of female friends who sex drive hasn and and part of it is, you know, estrogen, they're out of hormones and or they're just they don't care anymore, they haven't used it. So I what what advice would you give to one. I think there is some truth too. If you don't use it, you lose it. And they want connection but they don't. So I mean,
I don't take a hormone, pellets or anything. I don't we either know, I just don't. I don't I don't want to.
So I'm not sure if I can give advice because I don't have the problem. But the thought to me is that if you feel safe and you feel loved, and you have that intimate connection, I'm surprised you don't have that feeling, like you know, I'd like to get
a little closer to this person. I would like to do this in the bedroom instead of sit there watching a movie like there there's the next level, Like you can only get to a certain level with a person if you are not will William willing to have a more intimate relationship, like I think it stops.
But see, I think women, and we talked about this earlier. I think there's so much tied up. A woman may say I have low sex thrive, but maybe really what's going on because we're all about women. Unfortunately, it's our bodies, our face, our hair, how do we look, do we look our age, you want to look younger. You think men's that are on have these conversations. That's the whole thing about safety.
Like, if you feel safe like this, I'm not going to be judged because we have a relationship that's big enough or good enough that I feel safe with you. So no matter what, if you know, but if you seem undressed and my boobs aren't up to hear, they're down to hear, like it is what it is.
But that's a lot of work. I think a lot of women who aren't in a relationship want to be touched. And that can be any kind of touch. It could be a massage, it can be a foot massage, it can be getting a pedicure.
I love that.
I love that too, But I think that it doesn't have to culminate in what did you say before, It doesn't have to culminate end. It doesn't have to know the ending, It does not have to end, you know.
Just the physical touch.
And I think again, I think women need to You and I are pretty self confident women. But even if you're not confident, there is nothing wrong with finding alternative ways to have that physical connection. Touch and you know what you might find you, but one might find that if you can get a little bit out of your comfort zone and try, it's not as scary, you know, as what you women sometimes have convinced themselves.
I somewhat feel like there may be two separate matters.
So can I want a massage right now?
That the thought, I know, where's the I don't know it's the sweet with the massage. I do feel like they are kind of two separate things. But I feel like in the end, to have a really good relationship you have to have both. You have to have the physical and the emotional intimacy. And I feel like like a woman that says I crave touch, but I don't want to have sex with a man. There are great alternatives, like you said, like a massage or having Like I
love having my feet rubbed. It feels so good. It's it like it like brings me down to like another level. Like if I'm having a bad day or whatever, I get a foot massage, I'm happy for a week.
Well, I'm going to say that all of this talk has made me want to get back in the saddle.
Like in the next ten minute saddle you're calling it the saddle. Well, no, I've just finish that that thought a little bit because I feel like otherwise you just have a friend and nothing.
You know that there's anything wrong. It's a friend with benefits. You ever heard of it?
Yeah, but I'm thinking about a friend without benefits. So like, let's say you were in a relationship with a person and the man really wants to have sex and you really don't. Well, that guy's you a friend now, and he's going to consider you just a friend.
We've covered a lot of topics here, you like talking about sex toys.
Now we're going I know where you're going with this.
Sixty nine First, before we get into it, no pun intended is sixty nine. When you hear that and we're sexually talking about sixty nine, do you think of one on top of the other or side by side? I've I literally have been taking a poll in the last month.
I know, and we talked about this yesterday, which is the weirdest thing. And I think it's one on top of the other, but I don't know. So then let me just say, hold on, wait, it's side. It's got to be side by side because it's sixty nine. If it's on top, then it's eleven, And it's not called eleven. It just depends on your point of view.
It is not called eleven. It is called your.
Point of you. Side by side is eleven to me? Side by side one one, that's sixteen.
Clearly you've never partaken if you just said that, girlfriend.
By the way, I have never partaken in it.
Well, oh, there's a news flash.
We're gonna please do not make that the headline. I sound like a really big crude and I'm really not.
I don't. But here's the thing I had never ever to me sixty nine. I mean I literally had to draw a graphic for someone like they didn't get it.
They didn't get it. Oh, I get it, I understand how So then.
They go, no, it's one on top of you, and I went, that's eleven. No it's not.
Side by side's eleven? What on top is a sixueting?
You know what? We got to wrap this up because I need to go draw you a diagram.
I know how it works. I know how it works. Okay, I think I think that.
Do you think that's an intimate act?
Oh, Gosha like probably one of the most yeah, I think for me. And we had this conversation requires way too much concentration to be doing and receiving at the same time. Is just a lot?
Oh you mean two finishes at the same time?
Can connect finish, connect the neck, connect down the stretch?
Okay, well, I don't know, but this whole conversation's made me very horny John, So I got wow.
And we're in a room of mostly women here one guy's married.
Okay, enough of this silliness. Listen, are you getting back in the saddle? There's that word again? But feeling nervous and need advice? Call us or email us. All the info is in the show notes. Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast I Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective, right,