9021One on One: Michael Anthony Rawlins

I'm in my living room? But where I'm in l A? Are you in l A? I is gonna say it's five o'clock somewhere. But okay, this is actually a prop but it looks like water actually doesn't like a good prop. Um. But let that not put a damper on the cheers. I just want to make a touch to the original nine O two one O G crew. Hey, cheers, cheers. So nice to have a little drink of water with you. Yes,

that was water too. We UM were thrilled to have you here because you started on our show when you were young, just like us, and you've gone to have this great, really fruitful career doing so many great roles on television and films, and it's just nice to see that. You know, thank you, thank you. When you start this journey, you never know where it's gonna lead to. So m just be able to stay in the game and have

some longevity is uh beautiful thing. So what was the tell it talk us through the process of when you audition you got the part of Jordan's Bonner because you had already done like episodes of TV for other shows, right, Yeah, I had some. I've done some other shows, but nothing that had the profile of your show. Like I remember that season three, if I'm not mistaken, weren't you all

to recover sial boxes? We had a sereal box. Yes, it was crazy, honey, shrunk my own h what's the one with the banney cheerio is with the b and we did a commercial we were on Yeah. Um, so it was definitely the highest profile GA that I had

booked to that point. And I remember when I got the audition, I got the call back and I went in and I think Jack Bender was the direct there of the first episode because I was always supposed to do one wow, and it ended up being six episodes, right, yeah, yeah, and uh, he gave me an adjustment in the callback,

I think he said. I think he said, just bring it down because the way I was reading Jordan is he was upset with the way his high school had been depicted as a high school that was in the hood. And uh, I brought it down. He said, thank you. And I remember getting a call from my manager a couple hours later and she said, okay, you're You're on the short list, but you have to be approved by Aaron Spelling himself. And I was like, really, I'm going

to be united by Aaron Spelling? What? And then she called back, I think it was that night or earlier the next day, and said I had to roll. So were you so excited, like like, that's a good call to get no matter what show it's on, it was. It was exciting my I think my manager was standing at my My manager at the time was really cool. I think it was the first time I saw her actually get up and like jump around in her office.

Even then, once you got the part, you still thought it was for one episode or did they know then they were no, they didn't don't know that until after we shot. It was in the camp. Then my agent called and said, yeah, they're bringing you back, and it was gonna be um, but they ended up being six. And I don't know if you guys know this, but they were actually talking about bringing me back the following season. So one day I came to set and you know, Gabrielle and I were dating on the show, and she

came up to me. She said, hey, Michael, and she was kind of somber, and I was like, hey, Gabby, what's up. She said, I gotta tell you something. I said, what she goes on pregnant. I said, congratulations, and she said yeah, they don't want you to be the father. And I was like, okay, so they're gonna write it into the show. She's like yeah, And I said, okay, Hey, it's nice stopped me gap my career by good luck with your baby, right so, And I think that was

around the I'm not sure wearing a season. I think it was like the fourth and fifth episode. So I knew that any top of me coming back the phone the season, that's a that's a bad break right there. You got dealta a dud deal because the baby into the show, like they used her pregnant. See that's right, that's right. And Jesse I think his name was Jesse, Yes, the character. Yeah, yes, you know, all my friends are like, dude, that could have been you. I was like, I know,

leave me alone. I'm going to be crying. I loved the character of Jordan Bonner, Like, yeah, we all the character of Jesse was cool, but like that would have been really cool, like to continue that storyline and you're the father and to to focus on you know what you did so beautifully already for the show. What's such an important pivotal role on the show by you know, sort of representing all the the racial inequities that were happening in in the you know, the storylines at that time.

You you played all of that so beautifully, and it would have been so impressive to like expand that and let that. Yeah, that would lay out great story and

no offense to gap. But I can't. That's kind of shocking that she delivered that information, right, Yeah, I'm like outside the makeup trailer probably like like yes, I think we're in the sound stage, but you know, Daddy and I actually stayed in touch over the years, and I think because we were dating on the show, she felt like I think I remember saying something in the fact that I wanted you to hear it from me because you boyfriend and girlfriend on the show, and I know

how this can, you know, affect someone, and I just wanted you to hear it from me. So I think she was it was like a caretaker thing for her and gotten to know her a little bit over the years. I haven't seen her now in a few years, but we would bump into each other and hook up. I've been to her home and her family. Um, that's who she is, you know. So it was unfortunate to hear. But I actually when they called me, when my rets called me to tell me, I was like, yeah, I

kind of knew. They're like, why do you tell us? I was like, I was kind of hoping it wouldn't manifest, but you know, so, but these are the kinds of things that we deal with them, this crazy roller coaster called the Hollywood career. We we've had Gab on our show a couple of times now and we are very close with her, and she told us something that kind of rocked our worlds, which was, uh, that you guys were love interests. It was going somewhere, and we loved it.

We were both Tory and I were both because we're watching the show back. So when that episode came out, you guys started to like flirt and you're both at the Yale party. We got getting really excited that that was about to happen. But she said that that the producers, when they started to go a different direction, they wouldn't even let you guys kiss, and she felt that it was a racial thing like that they weren't going to

go there. And she told us that when we were doing pH now to know, she was like, there was a couple of things that happened that wouldn't have happened nowadays. But then it was like she wasn't allowed to wear a Jewish cross, she wasn't allowed to kiss the black man, Like yeah, she kept pointing things out that we were like, what, we didn't know this was happening at the time, right right. I remember her talking to me about the cross, sorry, not a Jewish cross. That made no sense coming from

the Jewish girl here a Jewish star. She wasn't allowed to wear a Jewish star, she wasn't allowed to kiss the black Man on camera and it just blew our minds. Yeah, it surprised me because to your dad was known as an innovator. I mean, I think, if I'm not mistaking in revitation for introducing the first situation a couple on TV, it was the mon Squad yapp So I was I was huge. He was so proud of that and wanted

to always continue that. So all I could think of, And you know my dad, My dad was Jewish, so you would have loved a Jewish her on camera, like not just crosses and representing you out our our heritage. But like, I can only think that the network at the time just wasn't into it. It had to have been that, I wonder. I wish I could go back and ask my dad, like, what was the fight there? Which again those things because it was Fox and they

were also known for beating breaking them all exactly. They brought us in a would be in color like they were the edgy new for network. It just makes no sense to us. Did we know so you heard that too? Yeah? Yeah, um, like was it actually in the script and then didn't happen or never even made it into the script? The kiss? I think I have my script somewhere because I remember asking you guys to sign them, so it's kind of keep safe for me that I've held on to. I

don't remember seeing that in the script. I just remember Gabby when she stopped me to me, I saw her take off the cross like she got the cross, and we had a conversation about it. But I don't remember there being at kids, you know. I just I think the closest we got physically on the show was we actually held hands. I think that's the closest we got on the show, and we I think in a couple of scenes we were standing show on the shoulder, but

nothing remotely over. Wow. Yeah, if you could go back in time, what would you tell the writers and the producers if you had, if you had the opportunity, I would say, let's be ahead of the diversity postion to do it now, you know, um, be on the forefront. Uh. It was what you know, it wasn't so outside the box to have inter racial people dating at that time, you know, to your dad had already done it in the seventies. Yeah, so come on, guys, Yeah, you know none.

Tuno was a young show. Your target demo was young if anybody's going to embrace that storyline, it would have been a youth. The youth is always leading the revolution, so I think it would have been embrace. I remember at the time though, that there was a lot of fan backlash with nine O, two and O because people are saying there's no diversity, it's an all white cast

of main characters. And I remember my dad being so deeply hurt by that because that that was always his thing, Like he was so into diversity and pushing it and pushing the limits when it wasn't even done on TV, so, you know, and they kept saying it was you know, they never said like, oh, could it be you know, the network, it was always Aaron Spelling doesn't put people on the show, and it's like, that's not true. That's

what they do, you know. The season before season two, I actually auditioned to play via Vivica Fox's brother for that family was Richard rown Tree. Right, Oh, that was the first time I read for the casting director whose name escapes me. You remember who cast the show? Was it Joanna right at the time, Jore No, it wasn't. I didn't read for Joe anyway. I think she did the original casting cast and came after. Anyway, I remember going in and uh, I read she brought me back

for producers and then I didn't get it. But what I heard happened was that Richard Rowntree wanted more money if they were like they were supposed to recur they only ended up doing right, They inevitably wanted them, yeah, as to fold them into the main cast, right right. But from what I understand, Richard Rowntree wasn't getting the love he thought he deserved, and Spike he thought he deserved.

And that's what torpedo that story. Like, I could be wrong, I think I agree with him the same, but that's what I understand. And so when I came back to read for season for the character in season three, I remember it was a guest star. So there were like four scenes. They were like twelve pages, and it was on a Monday, and I spent the weekend working on it.

When I got there, the Castle rector said, so we're just gonna do one scene, and I was like, I hate right, and it still happens, But I was said to myself, I was having this internal battle and I was like, am I gonna stand up for myself right now, or am I just gonna do the scene? And I said, you know, uh, she picked the scene. It would be one thing if she said pick a scene and you could pick the scene that you thought best showcase your character.

She picked the scene, and I said, her name is Diane. Her first name is Diane. It just came to me. I can't remember her last name, but she said, I said, Diane. I said, I think the character is better showcased in this scene and she said really. I said, yeah, I think that's where the meat is. And she said, well, why don't you do the scene I asked you to do, and then if you do well, you can have the entree.

And I was like, Earl, it's called Mike bluff, so I was about to have that coming either, so I didn't see she picked. She said, okay, Michael, you get your entrede today. See I wanted to do which is the scene where me and Brandon meet for the first time, And I thought that was clearly the best scene out of before. And I did it and she goes, I want you to come back and producers, and I came back and I got the role. But yeah, it's interesting just how I guess I was destined to be on

the show because I have a vision for this. Oh, I'm glad you you spoke up. That's not good to know. It's one of those moments in your career as an actor if you take a stand, if you're not afraid to take a stand, it cannot only make a change, but it empowers you. And you know, when you're starting off in this business and you've done a few things, but you haven't done a lot. You're trying to take your career to the next step, to the next level.

It's moments like those that can end up defining your career, you know. And after that audition, I would walk in the room with much more confident and feel like I belong instead of doing my best work in the rear view mirror in my car the way home. Yes, yeah, wow, that's a good lesson for actors out there everywhere. Really find your voice when you need it for so short a period of time, so you know, take the Like

that was the first time I took the room. As they say, because you are here in class, take the room. It's your time. Take the room. And I really hadn't felt like I've taken the room until that moment. That's when I took the room for the first time. I hope I ever have another audition, because I'm going to take the room. Take it. I've never taken a room in an audition. I'm the worst audition. I don't know about you, guys, but she always says that clearly not

so much. So next time I'm thinking of you. Okay, was this one of those auditions have you ever had? I mean we've had them, Like the auditions where you're like, oh, this is my part, I'm getting it, and you do get it. You're like, see, I was right, I knew it, and the ones where they were like, amazing, do you want me to change anything? No, it was perfect. You're like, I'm not getting this, Like did you feel that when I when I left the callback, I felt like I

had done a good job. But I've been doing it long enough to know that that really didn't mean anything because a lot of times when I feel like I hit it out of the park, crickets, when I stunk up the room. Yeah, they want a book, what exactly is There's no rhyme or reason. It's what they have in their minds, what they want and sometimes that that comes. That happens where some an actor comes in and changes their minds like you did that and that's awesome. Oh

thank you, that's so good. So um, what is good you? What's going on for you now? Like tell us where you are and what you're doing? Tell you what's taking up the majority of my time right now? If you can see my T shirt, it says dead ever. So I have a fourteen year old who has followed in my footsteps. He actually wee last week just wrapped a movie called Heart of a Lion, which is a sony picture about the Xbox and champion George Foreman. Oh gosh, wow,

yeah he George Foreman as a kid. That's amazing. It's being directed or was directed by George Tillman, who's known for Soul Food, They Hate You Give, Notorious b I G. And his mom is being played by Sonya son from The Wire and The Shy talk about intense. Um, so it's liked you better bring your a game because your mom don't play. Oh wow, were you nervous because you had to be with him on set? Right? Or did he have somebody else? I'm more nervous for him than

he is for himself. You know, Um, when it's a big audition, I'm like, I'm the one that needs to calm down and breathe. He's fine. So you are what do they call it, what you're stage teach? Now? I guess I am, yeah, I mean, you know, he's uh. He started. We lived in Chicago for five years from twenty nineteen and that's where he really got started. He had an agent here in l A before we left, and he was auditioning a little bit, but when we got to Chicago he really took off. He started doing theater.

He did uh Last Stop on Market Street, which is the world premiere in the Chicago Children's Theater. And he started on stage, interestingly enough, at the good Man in Chicago doing the four yeth anniversary at a Christmas Carol, and it was really surreal because he played. One of the roles he played was Turkey Boy, which is a little English kid that comes on at the end and has a scene with Scrooge. So you have to do a British accent. And I was born in one of England,

so at that age I had that accent. So seeing the poor child on stage doing a British accent at the same age that you were when you had that accent. It was like it was one of those moments. I was just like, I got goose bumps. You're so proud. I love it. I am I and I'd be proud of him regardless. I mean, he just he just got an award. I think it's called the President's Award for Outstanding Achievement that I didn't even know existed, along with

being a Distinguished Honished student for grade eight. Um, he's got a four point on g p A. I never had a four point I feel shamed right now. You're hilarious. Yeah, he's a good kid. I got lucky. He's a good kid. His name is Kai Katie I and he just goes by his first name. That's it. That's all he needs to go by. I love it. Wow, I'm kind gratulations. Thank you. I'm still in the game, you know, I'm still, like most of the rank and file members of the

screen actors, still playing the auditional game. I had one today actually, and my son, ensuring Love, had an audition for nine one one two. It's do tomorrow and it's for the same episode. But we don't we don't have any scenes together. Oh that'd be really fun if you got it. Like one of these days, can we just work together? Are you auditioning from your home like we all are? Will we ever, Jenny, will we ever get to go in the room and actually take the wak

the room. I think it's gonna be a lot easier for me to take my living room than their office room. So I'm happy with the way. Yeah, so happy about self tapes because I was like, oh good, I don't have to worry about the nerves are screwing up, Like I'll actually just do good work. But I missed the room a little bit. I missed the power, you know, like seeing people respond and laugh, the energy laugh like you know something exactly. Yeah, I feel the same as you, Tori.

I'm like, I like you like the control. Like I've been doing some writing and directing two of short films and some of them have been in festivals, one won one an award, And so if you have aspirations beyond acting, you love the control of your audition. But I told myself, I said, you know, I don't know. I think self taping is here to stay. I mean, we were doing it before COVID, but I think it's here to stay

in a bigger way. But I think if you're like shortlisted for a series or leading the film, you're gonna have to go in the room. You know, let's help. Yeah. Um, And I said, don't get too comfortable, because I think at some point down the road it's gonna be a mix of the two where you're going in the room. Sometimes the self tape like a hybrid. Yeah, I like a hybrid exactly. And going in the room is it's uh, especially I haven't done in a while. You know, we

can be I'm anticipating like having dry mouths. You know, you get cotton mouths when you're really nervous, when you can't talk. But the energy, I think is what we all missed the most. You know. It's like doing theater, that energy you get. Like when we moved to Chicago, I hadn't done theater in six years, and the first

show I was so nervous in the wings. Like when I was younger doing theater, they would hold me back in the wings to go, you're not on yet, flow your role, And now doing theater all these years later, they're like, you know that's your cue. Go, So yeah, I'm kind of looking forward to going back in the room sometimes, but I think I like the kind of hybrid situation that we're in now. You know, sometimes you're at home sometimes during the room, So I guess you

have to wait and see how you get it. Yea, m m. So Jordan was on the show for six episodes, which for recurring like that was a big deal, like six episodes, and do you feel like, what was like

do you still get recognized as Jordan Bonner? And back then, what was it like when people like when he became so big on the show, what was it like the fan reaction when you would go out, I got recognized for some We did that so probably through like two thousands and early two thousand's, I would say, I mean early twenty tenths, like for a long time, and people, you know, nine two and oh fans were rabid, so they would be like Jordan Bonner, hands up, and it

was and they would tell you about the episode or one of the six episodes and give you the storyline like they were serious. And it was like that for at least twenty years after doing the show. It's just the last few years and you know, I am proudly bald now, so I'm not rocking the flattop anymore. So it's kind and I have facial hair that's gray, so if I shave it, though I tend to get people will still pick me up. And I've noticed you. You

look the same to me, thank you. Um. But yeah, at the time when it aired, yeah, I got recognized a lot more than I had ever been in my career. And I remember my my dad coming to town and we were at remember Mrs Gouches before it was wiled by Whole food Oh my god, yes, god, Mrs that was like that, sor And I remember you never picked to that place. You made me go there to get brags. Yeah. Yeah, they had all the good stuff and we were very upset that they were being bottled by Whole Foods. I

remember signing a petition to stop it from happening. It didn't work. It didn't work. We didn't get it done. Corporate America. What are you gonna do? But um, I was saying, Mrs cootch is one time with my dad and a few people were pointing in whispering, and I knew it was happening, but because they didn't approach me or anything, I just kept it moving. And my dad said, don't you see those people pointing at you and talking to you what I said or pointing at you? And

I said, yeah, that I do. He goes so soon as you go over and talking to me about saying, well, if I did that, we wouldn't get anything done. I love the fans, but if they come up and they acknowledge you, that's when you haven't exchange. But I'm not going out of my kna go hey, do you guys reckon as me? Right? Yeah, that that would be a little weird, but it must have been for you guys, like it was huge. So how did you guys deal

with it? I mean it's always different, Like every it seems like every encounter has a different energy about it, like a different way to handle it. Right, Like there's those fans that you have to give them your undivided attention and time because they are so passionate and so devoted, and we we love those fans and our show has

a lot of them, thank goodness. Seel Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's why I think for us it just became such a constant way of life, Like I know for me, like people would see like your dad seeing that people were seeing you. I wouldn't have seen it. It just kind of in order to have a normal life, like I would just navigate and I didn't even see it. It was like, you know, white noise. Yeah, and then people would be like, oh my god, those people are

freaking out. I'd be like what people Like, I didn't even notice it. And then when I did, like, of course, I would like be with them and say like hi, and and give them hugs. But in order to do your daily routine, you kind of just had to like go through life and not be like, oh my god, oh my god, everyone's looking at me. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

I think um. Somebody told me early on. I can't remember who they were talking about specifically, but they said, this person is one of the biggest stars in the world and they just they do their own grocery shopping. They don't have any bodyguards or anything. And he said, I think the people that, unless it's a very unique situation, the people that don't have bodyguards and just go about their lives in a in a regular way are fine. It's like the bigger you make of it, the bigger

it becomes. Like you can attract all that madness if you don't navigate that space careful. Very true. I didn't know that was even an option back then, to have somebody else do your grocery shopping, or to have a bodyguard, like we had bodyguards on set in our real life, Like we didn't just have a bodyguard as we went and did our errands during the day, and we didn't have instat cart or like things like that. So yeah, you just had to write like you did your own

grocery shopping, Like what was the alternative? You had to put your armor on and go out into the world. Yeah, yeah, we had. There were times. There were like times when it was harder than than other times, and you had to kind of adapt and be flexible and give yourself a little a little break because it was challenging for sure at times, and it still can be like even you know, just going out sometimes you gotta like psych yourself up. I mean I do, I have to psych

myself up to go. I'm going out in the world. And because I live my life like I'm just a normal person. I'm a mom, I have dogs, I run my house like I have to do all the things like we're normal people. But when you go out and then you get recognized, you're like, wait, what, I'm not normal like that. It's confusing messaging. Yeah. Yeah, and when when you have kids, I think it's even trickier. It is,

especially when they're little because they don't understand. Like one of mine were smaller, they'd be like, we were just we're here to have fun. We want to go, you know, do this and be at Chuck E Cheese and like people were wanting to talk to me and they're like, come on, and those are the bands like you can't, yeah, be rude. Yeah, they don't get it at their kids. Yeah. Yeah. I remember getting escorted to set one day. There was a knock on my door. Um, it might have been

an episode the second or third episode I did. There's a knock on my door and I opened the door to the trailer and there were two bodyguards standing there and they were like. I was like, hey, they're like here to escort you to set. And I was like, I think you're ever wrong. Trailer. Jason's trailer's right there, and they're like, well, you're seen as with Jason and

he's gonna need an escort to set. And I was like okay, And I really didn't clue in yet until I came out of my trailer and then we stopped in his trailer, and then the four of us walked the set and we were shooting at the high school and there were girls on the feds. It was like being inside of Beatles footage. They were screaming and crying and I was like, oh my god to see it up close. And I remember turning to Jason and I said, so this is your life and I will never forget this.

His shoulders went up like this. He just he just kind of sighed. We went yeah, and I was like, whoa, that's a lot of weight. You could feel the weight on him, the weight of celebrity, And in that moment, I said to myself, you know, I don't need to be crazy famous. I just want to work. I'd rather not deal with all of that and just kind of be one of those actors that people see and recognize, but they don't know who you are. They don't know

what you see. When they're just like, hey, there's that actor. What's his name, what's he been in? But they don't know, so you can kind of roll anonymously, you know what I'm saying, but I will never forget that moment. Yeah, I mean I think it's still happening today, like you know, a famous the Beast, and there's no there's no like nobody tells you how to deal with it, and nobody

tell us how to deal with it. And I think, like now, because of the Internet and because we have so much exposure to everything, we know, like people that are coming up now know what it's going to be like. But back then, nobody warned us. Nobody warned Jason and Luke what was going to happen to their lives on that level. And we just I'm so grateful and proud of everybody for making it out alive, you know, just getting through it and and and I think everybody dealt

with it pretty well. Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, it's tricky and you you know, going in that it's that it could happen. But like you said, there's one book, so we should make one. We should write a book. You should. How does yeal of fame? Celebrity now is even crazier with social media. It's not snill, it's next level. I mean I've had the conversation with my son and just told him like he did a movie. His first movie

was Timmy Failure. Mistakes were made and it came out on Disney Plus as one of their initial original movies. And so he dealt with it at school because everybody was like, oh my god, there's from Timmy Failure and uh, he said, Daddy, you were right, And he said, and where kids that came up to me and talked to me and wanted to be my friend who never talked to me before, you know, ignored me, even kids in my own class. And I said, yeah, it's one of

the downsides that you have to deal with. So you know, keep your friends closer and enemies closer. You know, you'll know who's genuine and who's not. But I think it's a trickier thing, so hard for kids to navigate than for adult It's still hard. I still don't sometimes make the right choice and don't realize because you want people to like you for you, and you forget like, oh, I just went into it and I even thought, of course they like me for me, and then you're like, oh,

there's that. I forgot that part of it. Yeah. Yeah, so it's hard. So good chatting with you, Mike, so great to see your face. We could do this for at I love it. It's our favorite thing to do, right. We're very appreciative that you came on today with us, and the fans will be so happy to get to see you and hear what we're talking about with you. Well, I'm honored that you guys reached out. I'm glad you did.

It's good to see you and hopefully in some uh when the world returns to his access, maybe we can see each other person or something. I know it's true. We're gonna set that you and your son get to be in a project together. Would be fabulous. Yes, yes, yes, all body parts crossed. But I'm definitely gonna channel. I'm gonna take I'm gonna take the room my next opportunity because of you. Thank you. So good to see you, Jenny. Good, good to see you. Thank you back at you. Bye,