This is Alice Springs: Children of the Intervention - podcast episode cover

This is Alice Springs: Children of the Intervention

Oct 13, 202430 minEp. 1370
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Episode description

From afar, Alice Springs is a whirlpool of myth and truth. A town with competing interests and few solutions, marked by chaos and decades of government overreach. 

That all came to a head earlier this year, with what’s been described as a “youth riot” in town. The violence led to the Northern Territory government imposing an emergency curfew. 

This is when the headlines started: in cities and towns across Australia, we read about a “crisis” about “rampages”. One newspaper described the kids here as “tiny menaces stuck on a turnstile of trouble”.

In this first episode of our three part series This is Alice Springs Daniel James visits the town at the heart of our nation, to find out how all the interventions, big and small, by governments of all persuasions have led to this chaos. What he finds is that almost all of it leads back to one thing.


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Transcript

Speaker 1

This town is a sad story, especially for black fellows, I guess for non Indigenous people. It's a beautiful town. Not in the landscape it's beautiful, but for us to live here as a local, it's a sad story.

Speaker 2

This is Uncle Brian. He's an arunder man. This is his land, this is his town.

Speaker 1

Well, we want to shoulders allis Springs in a different way, in a black fellow way, not just white fellow way, white flow way. You call Alice Springs Alice. You know who's Alice. We don't know Alice. It's called Umbando.

Speaker 2

We're sitting in a park. It's at the base of one of those age old Rockier scarments that surround this town. It's mid afternoon. Meet his Way as a children's play area, empty swings, empty slides. With us is Damien, another arunder man. Goodness. Yeah, with him is his son by, tall and slender, eighteen years of age, dressed in a Nike hoodie too much for a Southerner and a warm Central Australian day, but suitable for a local.

Speaker 3

That's my son, Bison.

Speaker 2

Bison there go. Yeah, a bit warmer up here than it is in Melbourne.

Speaker 3

Tell me about.

Speaker 2

Together. Uncle, Brian, Damien, and Bison represent three generations of arunder men. Damien is in his thirties. Looks like he's just jumped off the back of a steed. He's wearing a check shirt with the sleeves removed, jeans and boots, boots covered in dust, red dust. The town we're in now, the one his son Bison grew up in, has changed a lot since Damien was a kid.

Speaker 3

Well growing up here. From a young person, there's goodly in town.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I loved it.

Speaker 3

I still love it today, but I think some of them the sweet part of Alice is no longer here. I think it's worn a bit sour to be hones.

Speaker 2

What's it like living in Alice Springs? Pretty hush?

Speaker 3

It looks good now, but my time it looks a little good, like trenchous vibes.

Speaker 2

You know these things better stay stay in your home.

Speaker 1

It's too dangerous for non Indigenous people. And like me, being a local, as I and a man, I don't feel safe organ streets at night because I.

Speaker 2

Get a tack tooo.

Speaker 1

That's that you can one kid walk up to your little twelve ye, I'll ask you for a cigarette and you tell you that nothing he sings out for his mates. They only them gangs and all that.

Speaker 2

It's those gangs that have become infamous here and across the country. Kids roaming in the streets looking for trouble and if they can't find it, making trouble. Things really kicked off earlier this year with what's been described as a riot in town. He started at the Todd Tavern, not too far from where we are now, within Alice Springs, nowhere as far away. At this pub, the Todd glass was smashed. Bricks were just pelted out of people or running up and fly kicking.

Speaker 3

They've taken twenty meter jumps and jumping in the glass trying.

Speaker 4

To smash it.

Speaker 1

A flying sidekick punches rocks and even bricks rick.

Speaker 2

This is when the headline started. In cities and towns across Australia, we read about chaos and rampages. One newspaper described the kids here as tiny menaces stuck on a turnstile of trouble.

Speaker 3

A couple of views, some of who look younger than ten years old, damage more than sixty cars.

Speaker 5

They're hanging out the window, hooning through Alice Springs.

Speaker 2

This resource.

Speaker 6

She was startled, according to police, by the children breaking.

Speaker 2

Into her home.

Speaker 7

She was then attacked and hit in the face with a rock by one.

Speaker 2

Police were given extraordinary powers to arrest the violence to put an end to it.

Speaker 5

An emergency situation has been declared in Alice Springs following a wave of violence in the Northern Territory town.

Speaker 1

These curf ears for both adults and children and will be enforced from ten pm to six am between those We will.

Speaker 6

Back our police to enact this curfew and do what is needed to improve community safety in Alice Springs.

Speaker 2

Like fly in and fly out, workers politicians derived to blame one another for the carnage. The people of Alice Springs became political footballs in the process.

Speaker 3

And you've got kids here tonight who are going to be sexually abused, or families where domestic violence has now become a current occurrence.

Speaker 2

Send in the.

Speaker 6

Riot Squad, the eightyf whoever it takes.

Speaker 4

To bring calm to our streets.

Speaker 2

That came on the back of one of the most divisive debates in the country's history, the referendum on the Voice to Parliament. There was yet another time when Aboriginal people were spoken about more than we were spoken to. It's been twelve months since that debate and I've come here to the heart of things, Alice Springs, Arta to

hear the voices of people here. I want to know what happens when the great Australian silence once again surrouds this town once the carnival of political debate heads down the road, and how all the interventions big and small by governments of or persuasions have led to this moment of chaos. What I found is that almost all of it leads back to one thing. I'm Daniel James from Schwartz Media and seven AM. This is Alice Springs Episode one, Children of the Intervention.

Speaker 3

Lately, as i'm there haven't been a lot of tourists traveling through due to some of the issues and Alice Springs people are afraid.

Speaker 2

And Damien's offered to take us on a tour of the town. This is us driving around with him and Bison. The media reporting has been pretty full on youreck, and that's in an effect on tourism. Yeah.

Speaker 3

Look, I think it's scared away a lot of even people with small businesses.

Speaker 2

I've been here before and there's a noticeable change for starters. You can't buy a drink here to take away. On Mondays and Tuesdays, the bars are empty. The thriving backpacker scene seems to have shrunk.

Speaker 3

There's a main part of the CBD. Yeah, bring your shopping center. That's where most people come for their shopping.

Speaker 2

And we passed the Todd Tavern opposite the footy ground. On the surface, the spread of a pub typical of a country town. In broad daylight, it's hard to picture it as a place of unrest and violence.

Speaker 3

Do a full loop.

Speaker 2

As we round the corner, we see the heart of justice within the town, a triangle of imposing buildings. The cop shop, the magistrate's court, and the biggest building of all, the Supreme Court.

Speaker 3

There's a big Supreme Court that just stands there and don't know what they're doing there.

Speaker 2

The Supreme the Supreme Court building is a big one.

Speaker 3

Yeah, it's it's really big, but I don't know if there's any purpose.

Speaker 2

For it right now. These buildings look dormant, but this hides the fact that more Aboriginal people are being sentenced to prison than ever before. There's been a twenty three percent increase in Indigenous incarceration in the past five years. Children aged between fourteen and seventeen are incarcerated at a high rate in the Northern Territory than anywhere else in the country.

Speaker 3

But here's here's a big one, right right, you got You've got nightclubs here, and we've got our young kids that are walking around and do up to our good And we've got half of our elders and our leaders in the nightclub and when they come out, they're seeing as just as bad as the young people. So you know, every weekend some of our leaders are acting like children.

Speaker 2

Inside the only shopping center, the bottle shops are once again open, and there are lines out the front with police checking IDs before people enter. There are two lines with one copper each assigned to check where people live, to make sure they don't live somewhere where alcohol is forbidden. Middle aged white people are waved through. So what did you say, please?

Speaker 1

White fans walks through Black fives. Can't that adds one hundred qus you need to get a six back of beer.

Speaker 2

There are plenty of black fellows on the street and they outnumber the white fellows. They're usually in groups just yarning up. It's on these streets you'll hear some of the oldest languages known to humanity, the true languages of the continent. Yet they're more foreign to us than Italian, or French or even millennial. The wonder of that is really something for an outsider. But for Damien and Bison, They're focus is on the problems here and now. I

sensed that, so I asked them about it. When did that sort of violence and running a mark sort of start?

Speaker 1

Do you think two thousand when the intervention came through, It was a big joke. It was a big shocking stuff for we were too shamed to say will from Alice Springs.

Speaker 2

This is something I heard again and again as I spoke to locals and Alice Springs. They still remember the army rolling into town, the announcements over town, Camp PA's warning people to stay in their homes. They tell me about the confusion, the terror, about how the blunt force of the intervention affected every part of their lives, and how they're still dealing with the consequences all these years later. That's after the break.

Speaker 5

Are we ready, well, ladies and gentlemen, Mister Bruff and I have called this news conference to announce a number of major measures to deal with what we can only describe as a national emergency in relation to the abuse of children in Indigenous communities in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 2

Far away from Alice Springs in Canberra, John Howard stands in front of a pack of journalists. It's June two thousand and seven, and.

Speaker 5

We therefore believe that the action I'm about to outline is totally justified and warranted given our overarching responsibilities for the welfare of children throughout Australia.

Speaker 2

This moment will change the course of life for generations of people in l Springs and surrounds. And it started with a report.

Speaker 6

The Little Children of Sacred Report shun a light on the profound consequences of the breakdown of Aboriginal society. Most chilling of all was that child abuse was serious, widespread, and often unreported.

Speaker 2

In the shadows of the report made a series of recommendations around the government supporting and empowering Aboriginal people to address any abuse within their communities, but the government tossed that aside, instead using the allegations as a pretext to seizing control over the land, again stripping locals of any

control over their lives. And sending in the military. The popular CDP program, a work for the Dull scheme that acted as a pathway out of welfare, was scrapped, forcing people back onto welfare.

Speaker 7

Widespread alcohol restrictions were enforced, there were medical examinations for children under sixteen. School attendance was linked to family payments, and government business managers were imposed. The Commonwealth moved to take controlled townships through changes to the Land Act. Police numbers were increased, and most controversial of all, half of welfare payments were quarantined for buying food and other essentials.

Speaker 2

The swiftness of the response, in all its clinical brutality, took how It and its Indigenous Affairs Minister mel Braff forty eight hours to draw up. We took everyone here by surprise, including the NTE government. No one living in the communities up here knew what was going to happen. It was scary. Were the army invading? Were they here to take the children away? To lock up all the men?

Speaker 4

Yes, I remember that when the army came here, it was pretty bad, and they made an excuse to go to the communities and they didn't care about whose place it was or anything.

Speaker 2

We've driven out to the west side of town. We've graciously been invited into the home of Arnie pat Ansel Dodds. She's an artist and respected Arunda elder. Her family are from here, but we're here at the point of first contact. This is her land, this is her town. Hello and yeah, Shame, Ruby, who's lined up the interview with Aunt, has her baby with her, trying to find a quiet spot for them while we record our conversation.

Speaker 8

A few grades.

Speaker 4

I have eight boys, three girls, and it's a boxing match.

Speaker 2

And how long have you been in Alice Springs itself?

Speaker 4

I have worked very hard over the years to speak out for my people. But what's the government's been doing, especially the things about the kids. When you look at our history, the white men never came till later on, and we're the last place that they came to to put the telegraph line through from Adelaide.

Speaker 2

Today, the telegraph station became a residential institution where Aboriginal children were taken when they were stolen from their families.

Speaker 4

Both my parents were put in there, and I didn't understand to lie was a bit older of all the things that happened to all the families around Australia, taking their children away and brainwashing them about their own history.

Speaker 2

Not ours. Arni Pat went on to become a nurse and in the midst of her career won a native title claim with their people. Her personal and professional advancement and Hartford Native Title victory made a thing. For a time things were improving, but the intervention changed all that.

Speaker 4

This younger generation is losing the plot and the government did this to them.

Speaker 2

The government did this, Yeah, why do you think they were doing it.

Speaker 4

It's just racism. It's an excuse to shut us down and take over the land and take over our communities, and that our people didn't have any rights anymore.

Speaker 2

The Intervention didn't end with Howard rud and Gillard kept it in place, ironically rebranding it Stronger Futures. Arni Pat watched on as outside as imposed a set of rules that removed the ability for her people to control their own lives.

Speaker 4

When you have people come into another town and they don't come from here, they don't know what to do, and then they have the police on their backs watching them all the time. But the younger generation just stuffed them. We will run amuck and that's what they do.

Speaker 2

In response, Anipat and other grandmothers established a group to patrol the streets of Alice at night to look for and look after kids on the streets in fear they'd be picked up by the police or the army.

Speaker 4

Well, we came together a few years ago, and we all came from here, this area, and we got together to fight for our rights to help these kids. We'd go out, especially at night, and go around the streets and talk to the kids and ask them what they're doing, because they'd walk around at night. But the worst thing was they'd be walking down the streets, but they'd be thinking of smashing things, things like that.

Speaker 2

How long was this strong grandmother's group together for?

Speaker 4

Oh, for a while, about twenty years?

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 4

Wow, And a lot of us are in the eighties and nineties, and we're getting tired. I an't keep fighting. I still see kids walking around at night and playing app and the parents try to stop them, but it's not happening.

Speaker 2

You have eight grandchildren of your own.

Speaker 4

Eight grandsons and three granddaughters.

Speaker 2

I see a photo of someone who graduated something up or something rather on the wall there. Yeah, yeah, who's that?

Speaker 5

Yeah?

Speaker 4

Yeah, I am just collecting few things and start putting things away because I'm going to Adelat's say that's my tripe.

Speaker 2

Only pat spent decades trying to protect the children of Old Springs from the government and his intervention. But now she's leading her. Paintings are leaning against cabinets and bookcases waiting to be packed. They depict the seven Arranda sisters being chased by a man, a story at the heart of the Arunda mythology. They'll go with her when she heads south. Right. For those that remain, there are remnants of the intervention all around. They're pillars of times passed

which are still present today. The next day, Uncle Brian and Dami intact me to Charles Creek Town Camp to show me the remaining signs. So up, where are we?

Speaker 1

We're Charles Kreekkuno Camp, Little Blow Mission. There's where that under people need to live.

Speaker 2

Charles Creek is one of twenty or so camps in and around the town that the government officially calls Alll Springs Community Living areas. Some of the camps, such as Charles Creek, are old missions. It was where Aboriginal people were assigned patches of land when Europeans first settled here. People have called this place home for generations. The camp is fenced in a series of neatly kept homes are at the base of another rocky escarpment. We've arrived just

after school's finished. There's a couple of girls in uniforms playing in one of the backyards. The fact that the town camps exist made it relatively easy during the intervention to control the people that live here. We're here to be introduced to some of the residents by Uncle Brian and Damien. First up, we meet young father Donald Kunos run here again. Daniel so Yah, one.

Speaker 3

Of the presidents of this block. So they wanted to come and check out some of them signs down here. A little bit of truth about what happens in Ana Springs. Here people get treated, how's the rent.

Speaker 2

Proven?

Speaker 3

Your identification? Everywhere you going on that side of Jazz.

Speaker 2

Damien remembers when a sign was put up on his block during the intervention.

Speaker 3

And when I see it, because I got dyslexty, I couldn't read it and I said, what does that mean? And someone was explaining it to me and.

Speaker 2

Know that what Yeah, No, it's always been like that.

Speaker 1

Some signs up there they're just saying that we can't have any alcohol or any pornography or any other stuff that's written on there so that we can't have it.

Speaker 2

And then there's another sign here. Do you want to Can anyone read this sign for me? You can read that it.

Speaker 3

Is an offense to drink or bring alcohol into this community or give alcohol to anyone.

Speaker 2

And again this has been planted in front of people's homes. That's right shame.

Speaker 3

How can you decorate your house and look respectable when you've got these sitting before you even enter your house.

Speaker 2

Do you think that people in the broader Australian community have any sort of understanding as to what's happening here?

Speaker 1

Nor people look at Ali Springer as a bad town.

Speaker 2

Charles Creek is one of the more pristine camps. They're tended to by a number of housing associations of various types of leases. They're not suburbs, they're not camps as weed know. What they are is places of segregation, a reminder of times before the intervention, when from the earliest days of European settlement, Ooriginal people and families were discouraged from living in the township. Uncle Brian is scathing about the state of the camp in which he lives.

Speaker 1

We living on Toba rubbish, not even a proper house, you know. We're happy with the river. Read been of power shower majority of the time.

Speaker 3

The sunstrings me because you don't have power, you don't have food, be ringing him sometimes for power and for food. And that's just linking up and supporting each other. But like I was saying, it's like we are all handicapped with this rent system.

Speaker 2

With everything you know. Lately.

Speaker 3

To be honest, I come in here and visit my family, but I haven't really pulled up and looked at this. And today we really looked at it, and actually reading about it, I'm thinking this sort of yeah, I bring it back a lot of a lot of anger and a lot of distrust within the government and whatnot.

Speaker 2

Where were you when you heard that the intervention was going to come through.

Speaker 1

I was at Loves Creek Station and I was working with name instead.

Speaker 2

And what was the reaction of you and some of the other fellows.

Speaker 1

Well, it was shocking and it was really sad for being indiganous men, you know. Yeah, to see Army's coming with guns and everything in it that freaked everybody out. Like to hear all these stories like when the indiventions come through mail Broth and all that. I would love to see Malbrook come back and say that it would be but you know, I've got a lot of things to put it on the table for him. If you're listening, mail Brock, come back and meet Brian Young in other springs.

Speaker 2

These men are proud fathers, grandfathers, and sons. The thought sort of harming their own flesh and blood is abhorrent to them. But the shame of being cast as drunks, drug users and pedophiles still lingers all these years later. The picture that was painted of Ourboriginal men here impacted mob right across the country. Now it's the next generation being impacted. I wanted to speak to some of the kids who brought me to all the springs, the kids

on the news being shown as out of control. Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 4

Today we're talking about I've got no life.

Speaker 2

We've come to a place where kids can rehabilitate. It's called bush mob, and it's motto is grog sniffing, drugs, crime, violence, no good. Where are we bush mod? And what's what's bush mob?

Speaker 4

Bush is like directing ned.

Speaker 2

What's your favorite part of it? Anything? Anything? What do you do?

Speaker 3

Bus trip?

Speaker 1

I like the bush tip just going out in the bush tomorrow.

Speaker 2

What are you going to be doing out there?

Speaker 8

Swimming?

Speaker 3

Anythink swimming?

Speaker 2

Yeah? What was it like being in juvenile.

Speaker 4

It's all right?

Speaker 8

Peaceful peace.

Speaker 2

Yeah. The facility is a bunch of demountables or donglas as they call them up here. I don't know why. It's the industrial part of town, like many n g O s here. The organization is broke. The pool table has sticky tape down its center to fix a tear. A few kids are playing pool, the others sitting around. There's lots of banter and not much to do. Jock McGregor is Bush Mob CEO.

Speaker 8

The kids we're seeing now are the kids?

Speaker 2

Are the kids?

Speaker 8

So they're the guys who got marginalize when the intervention came in, who got shuffled to the side or put into a service or DoD and then left with little to nose support. And then if you don't know how to look after yourself, you know how to look after kids, or if you will, we're getting what third fourth generation of welfare kids. That's what happens.

Speaker 2

Most of the kids here are Aboriginal and have either had brushes with the law or have been locked up. People can't walk in and kids can't walk out. It's harshly lit, with flickering fluorescent lights, giving everything a bluish tinge, but it's also an oasis. Kids will spend weeks to toxing, warned about the dangers of drugs and sniffing, and given time to think about their place in the world. You want to come in Avenan as well?

Speaker 5

Okay, what the hell's your mix?

Speaker 2

H Hello? How are you be cool? And how long are you? Then?

Speaker 4

I don't know?

Speaker 2

Yeah? For me? For me? Hell he mm hmm?

Speaker 1

Do you tell us a bit more about what you do?

Speaker 4

I do just like teasing the stuff and making annoying.

Speaker 2

Longer, making them their money making annoying there. What do you want to do when you get out of here? I don't know. Free, I'll be free.

Speaker 8

Yeah, he's going to be smoking direction.

Speaker 5

Nothing, I'm not smoke.

Speaker 2

Staff at bush Mob do their best, but the rap against it. It's run on a skeleton staff and therefore, in some circumstances can't provide enough support to the kids that are here the social and political environment is no longer conducing for the soft touch of organizations like bush Mob.

Speaker 8

Yeah, the kids come out fatter than they come in.

Speaker 2

That's the point.

Speaker 8

We're not fixing the problems at home. So young fella's got drama with family at home. We can't fix that. We can't go out to the community or where are the young fellow's from and have it so that everything's safe. But what we can do is make sure for the time that they're here, they're safe, they're fared, they're looked after.

Speaker 2

I think it's getting better or worse. Finally, Jock, I think think it's getting worse in here. I feel the sense of frustration and hopelessness that permeates these walls as much as it does the streets of our springs. Three generations of Aboriginal people have lived through it all. They are the children and grandchildren of the intervention. How many more generations are doomed to suffer the same fate. So

anything this podcast goes out to everyone? Is there anything that you want to tell people of Australia about what your life is like and what your hopes are that sort of thing.

Speaker 4

Lafe is good.

Speaker 2

Sometimes I think that good to see in the next episode the one agency tasked more than any other to arrest the problem here, the coppers. We want to do any want. As we sit here now in twenty twenty four, just at the start of your journey in this role, would you say that the Northern Territory Police is a racist institution.

Speaker 5

You see, once an Aboriginal person gets in the system, it's like glue.

Speaker 2

You know, it's a vortex. It's crazy shit.

Speaker 3

No matter how will I dress, no matter how high I am as a position title, no matter what sort of car I drive, I'm still an Aboriginal person.

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